Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

I’d instead say that those people that were better then those ’’scrub’’s are actually just slightly better. The thing is I wouldn’t all throw it on self delusion. Because certain mistakes are really just horrible. I think sticklerhappy and you are both right. The thing is people that complain overestimate themselves in thier skill level to a point that they are vastly better then thier teammates. While the difference could be that they are simply not stupid enough tripple cap home. Or skilled enough to not get wiped instantly.

I think that a problem would be that the ‘’average people’’ are not skilled enough to carry the ‘’baddies.’’ Hence u see close matches but them still having a very long losing streak. this kinda eliminates the ability to carry and kinda depents on which team makes the less mistakes. Because no matter how bad your team u will Always have 1 in a 3rd chance of meeting a team better equal or worse then you. I believe in that cases matches are more depent on chance then MM.

However if u were to match somewhat good players with average people going by sticklerhappy’s example. U will see wins but the gap isn’t that incredibly wide.

I think the bigger problem is.

Within that 80 percent of average/bad and newer people.

The average are simply not good enough to carry the bad and new people.

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference. ‘’Often those threads start with. I’m not considering myself a good or pro player but average or slightly above averge or decent’’ with them often having played between 1 and 2 k games. By that time u can prolly give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them good enough to know the bare basics and not tripple cap or get insta wiped on mid.

I think the solution would be to not just attract more people. But bridge the gap between players who are average, bad and new. By actually expanding on a turtorial area. Have it actually simulate a match. And add several tiers of turtorial levels with varriying difficulties.

And for crying out loud. Update all the battle npc’s in heart of the mists with elite specialisations. So that new and bad players actually get to learn basic skills. Like to not stand in traps,

The thing is. U can only go to the tutorial area once. Heck I’m not even sure there is even a tutorial area atm.

So in short

>update the battle npc’s with elite specs

>Make tutorial repeatable and add several simulations of an practice match.

I believe if more people are average then the burden of carrying will be lessend.

wolfer.1587:

If you are better than the average player you are matched with you should be gaining pips. Your team has 4 of them and the other team has 5, so your team should be a bit better because of you.

I honestly think that they aren’t exactly bullkittenting by saying they are better then thier teammates. Rather they are only slightly better so they cannot carry.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

I’d instead say that those people that were better then those ’’scrub’’s are actually just slightly better. The thing is I wouldn’t all throw it on self delusion. Because certain mistakes are really just horrible. I think sticklerhappy and you are both right. The thing is people that complain overestimate themselves in thier skill level to a point that they are vastly better then thier teammates. While the difference could be that they are simply not stupid enough tripple cap home. Or skilled enough to not get wiped instantly.

I think that a problem would be that the ‘’average people’’ are not skilled enough to carry the ‘’baddies.’’ Hence u see close matches but them still having a very long losing streak. this kinda eliminates the ability to carry and kinda depents on which team makes the less mistakes. Because no matter how bad your team u will Always have 1 in a 3rd chance of meeting a team better equal or worse then you. I believe in that cases matches are more depent on chance then MM.

However if u were to match somewhat good players with average people going by sticklerhappy’s example. U will see wins but the gap isn’t that incredibly wide.

I think the bigger problem is.

Within that 80 percent of average/bad and newer people.

The average are simply not good enough to carry the bad and new people.

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference. ‘’Often those threads start with. I’m not considering myself a good or pro player but average or slightly above averge or decent’’ with them often having played between 1 and 2 k games. By that time u can prolly give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them good enough to know the bare basics and not tripple cap or get insta wiped on mid.

I think the solution would be to not just attract more people. But bridge the gap between players who are average, bad and new. By actually expanding on a turtorial area. Have it actually simulate a match. And add several tiers of turtorial levels with varriying difficulties.

And for crying out loud. Update all the battle npc’s in heart of the mists with elite specialisations. So that new and bad players actually get to learn basic skills. Like to not stand in traps,

The thing is. U can only go to the tutorial area once. Heck I’m not even sure there is even a tutorial area atm.

So in short

>update the battle npc’s with elite specs

>Make tutorial repeatable and add several simulations of an practice match.

I believe if more people are average then the burden of carrying will be lessend.

You missed an important point though. Go back and take a look at my analysis as to why a 50% winrate guarantees progression 100% of the time.

Due to that fact, your analysis is wrong. These people don’t come complaining that they’re progressing slowly, they’re complaining that they’re not progressing at all, even in tier-locked divisions like sapphire and emerald.

In order to not progress at all, you actually have to be substantially worse than the average. You have to lose most of your games. These people complaining aren’t just ‘a bit better than average’ as you’re hypothesizing, they’re actually far worse than average.

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Fay.2357:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Statistically speaking, having bad players in the PvP pool is beneficial to you, if you’re a good player. Since you, as a good player, are on your team, you can only have a maximum of 4 other players that are awful. However, the other team can have 5. Over time, this gives you a statistical advantage over the other team you are truly a good player.

Do I get dumb people on my team? Sure, I got somebody that tried to res my clones repeatedly…but then you also see people this dumb on the other team too. The system isn’t targeting you to get placed with all the stupid people, it doesn’t hold some sort of grudge. On average, the other team will be just as dumb as yours. If you are able to raise the average skill level of your team, you will have a better than average win rate.

Additionally, a good and smart player can have an unbalanced effect on a match. Instead of just moaning about how your team rotates poorly, change how you play so that it complements the way the rest of your team is acting. As the only intelligent member on the team, it’s up to you to effectively analyze the game and determine how you need to play to best win.

On top of all of that, a 50% win rate is enough to progress even through ruby and diamond. 3 losses followed by 3 wins is a net gain of 2 pips. Therefor, even if you’re convinced that the system is forcing you to a 50% winrate, you still are able to make progress through the leagues.

Tl;dr: If you’re actually as good a player as you think you are, you’ll win a majority of the time anyway, regardless of the teams you get. If you’re still continuously losing, maybe you need to start thinking about blaming yourself instead of just the rest of your team.

Sure. Fair points. I completely understand.

These are all true assuming the bad players are not worse than the bad players on the other team. Had this happen to me before haha.

Also what you said is also true atleast until ruby because you cannot lose tiers. Now with ruby, one unlucky streak you have with roll of players you have might be more detrimental for you.

I mean it’s still about luck getting atleast better members on your team relative to the other team.

But again that luck is not getting any better without a decent player population that is big enough to atleast mitigate those horrid pvp experiences.

Also in regards to what you said, it still requires the perfect class for the job, I think even if you are better than your teammates, you will not keep them alive indefinitely if they die most the time in a team fight. you can’t bunker a point all game either.

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

As I said, the system doesn’t hold a grudge against you. It’s not purposefully matching you with the worst players every time. Sometimes you’ll get worse ones, sometimes you’ll get better ones, and over time this all comes out to the average. If you, as a good player, are able to shift your team’s average higher, then you’ll win more.

Additionally, 50% winrate will get you through ruby and diamond, as I already said. Winning and losing the exact same amount of games will result in a positive pip amount 100% of the time. If you lose 3 or more, the next win gets you 2 pips instead of 1. If you win 3 or more, each win will give 2 pips. However, it is impossible to lose more than 1 pip at a time. This means that random variation in win and loss streaks will always result in a net gain of pips, allowing you to progress.

So the only downside here is to wait for the system to average out, which as you said might be atleast ~100 games, which is really putting super casual people at a disadvantage?

Of course me myself do not have any problem with the system at all, as you’ve said it does not really purposely punish you.

That was the point of my post, I think its not even the matchmaking system, it just does it job (50% win ratio, matching opponents) but the only thing that makes the result so different than its intention is that the awful/average player population is so big that the Matchmaker gets its variables from this pool hence you get these bad experiences on the forums.

Strictly speaking it puts super casual people at a disadvantage…but someone playing that little couldn’t hit legendary even with 100% winrate, so it’s not really relevant.

Most of the complaints you see here are from people who have played many games and are still stuck with no progress. You see the same themes over and over, ‘oh I always get bad teams, oh they don’t know how to rotate, oh I’m so much better than these people’.

No. If these people complaining actually were better, if they actually were skilled and intelligent, they wouldn’t have a 35% win rate across 150 matches. This is simply a case of self-delusion, people convinced that they’re great players when the reality is entirely different. That’s all.

I’d instead say that those people that were better then those ’’scrub’’s are actually just slightly better. The thing is I wouldn’t all throw it on self delusion. Because certain mistakes are really just horrible. I think sticklerhappy and you are both right. The thing is people that complain overestimate themselves in thier skill level to a point that they are vastly better then thier teammates. While the difference could be that they are simply not stupid enough tripple cap home. Or skilled enough to not get wiped instantly.

I think that a problem would be that the ‘’average people’’ are not skilled enough to carry the ‘’baddies.’’ Hence u see close matches but them still having a very long losing streak. this kinda eliminates the ability to carry and kinda depents on which team makes the less mistakes. Because no matter how bad your team u will Always have 1 in a 3rd chance of meeting a team better equal or worse then you. I believe in that cases matches are more depent on chance then MM.

However if u were to match somewhat good players with average people going by sticklerhappy’s example. U will see wins but the gap isn’t that incredibly wide.

I think the bigger problem is.

Within that 80 percent of average/bad and newer people.

The average are simply not good enough to carry the bad and new people.

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference. ‘’Often those threads start with. I’m not considering myself a good or pro player but average or slightly above averge or decent’’ with them often having played between 1 and 2 k games. By that time u can prolly give them the benefit of the doubt and consider them good enough to know the bare basics and not tripple cap or get insta wiped on mid.

I think the solution would be to not just attract more people. But bridge the gap between players who are average, bad and new. By actually expanding on a turtorial area. Have it actually simulate a match. And add several tiers of turtorial levels with varriying difficulties.

And for crying out loud. Update all the battle npc’s in heart of the mists with elite specialisations. So that new and bad players actually get to learn basic skills. Like to not stand in traps,

The thing is. U can only go to the tutorial area once. Heck I’m not even sure there is even a tutorial area atm.

So in short

>update the battle npc’s with elite specs

>Make tutorial repeatable and add several simulations of an practice match.

I believe if more people are average then the burden of carrying will be lessend.

You missed an important point though. Go back and take a look at my analysis as to why a 50% winrate guarantees progression 100% of the time.

Due to that fact, your analysis is wrong. These people don’t come complaining that they’re progressing slowly, they’re complaining that they’re not progressing at all, even in tier-locked divisions like sapphire and emerald.

In order to not progress at all, you actually have to be substantially worse than the average. You have to lose most of your games. These people complaining aren’t just ‘a bit better than average’ as you’re hypothesizing, they’re actually far worse than average.

I see. That actually makes sense. U are bound to win really. If we assume u will lose to teams with an higher mmr. And win equal amount to losses vs teams of equal mmr and win against teams with lower mmr’s u should have indeed a 50 percent winrate atleast. Actually they are also below average really. They are simply a tad bit better then worse people in thier team.

edit: deborah got a point there, u have to absuse the 2 pip win system.

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Your own analysis proves my point. The very worst case scenario for any given group of equal wins and losses results in a zero pip gain. Any deviation from that worst case scenario results in positive pip gain.

Yes, there is a non-zero chance that someone could hit that perfect worst case scenario. There’s also a non-zero chance that the atoms composing my body will teleport to the next room due to quantum tunneling effects. Both of these situations have probabilities that are close enough to zero to count them as zero.

I wasn’t really trying to disprove you just bring more attention to the fact of how bad you can actually perform and still progress under this system.

Special attention should be noted in the emerald to ruby climb. In my scenarios listed B and C will secure tiers after each win streak making their climbs much faster than their A counterpart which can be extremely frustrating for A.

Player A would also have to play on average more games than both B and C while maintaining his winrate, B on the other hand can actually deviate downwards on occasion and still progress faster than A.

Fay.2357:

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Your own analysis proves my point. The very worst case scenario for any given group of equal wins and losses results in a zero pip gain. Any deviation from that worst case scenario results in positive pip gain.

Yes, there is a non-zero chance that someone could hit that perfect worst case scenario. There’s also a non-zero chance that the atoms composing my body will teleport to the next room due to quantum tunneling effects. Both of these situations have probabilities that are close enough to zero to count them as zero.

This is another issue in mind which kinda deludes your results a bit.

If you remember from season 2, new players were given average mmr. For this season, I am fairly certain that they did not reset the mmr for newer players because everyone started a tier or 2 below from what they were previously in last season.

So this season, that new player with 50 mmr (which in reality is supposed to be 0) you still take into consideration that their skill level is actually 0, not 50 so this kinda gives you false positives/negatives all around this season (I would also put them on that 80%)

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

I am not a bad player. I resent you calling me a bad player. I made it to dia last season. I was stuck in emerald w/ a 100+ losing streak. It was not my fault. I may have made mistakes, I could have been a better player (at times or always), I am not pro and don’t want to be, I tried to carry others, and I tried to never be carried.

I have played gw pvp almost daily since gw 1 beta and gw 2 beta. When I had my losing streak in emerald, everyone told me to get good and it was all my fault, and to stop blaming others. THey told me I was an emerald player and I belonged there.

When I made it to dia – what then? Was I still an emerald player w/ a 100 game losing streak then? Or was I a dia player and my div reflected my personal skill?

Give me a break. Get over yourselves. MMR hell is real, and w/o a mmr reset ea season (which I cannot believe anet did not do), ur bad mmr will follow u in spvp forever and you will be pitted with poor or new/clueless players against “good” seasoned players forever. Its not fun. Its not entertaining or relaxing. Its demoralizing and stupid and totally unnecessary and done for the sole purpose of blowing smoke up pros noses (which stinks).

This is team based pvp. Teammates dc. Sometimes they simply suck. Sometimes they manipulate. Sometimes I suck. Sometimes teammates kill ok 1 v 1 but don’t know strat. Then, on top of it, when ur mmr holds you back deliberately and pits u w/ other players w/ low mmr/losses against players w/ higher mmr/wins, who do u think will win 90% of the time – and hence the perpetual downward spiral into mmr hell (last seas) or the stay-stuck/never progress forevermore (seas 3 and beyond) which ppl are experiencing now.

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and those of u who espouse that players who have low mmr or losing streaks because they are not good are rude and clueless to say that. I feel anyone who says that owes me an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

And btw, I got out of my losing streak and I didn’t do a friggin thing different. I just played the same way I always did. And I didn’t grind any more than anyone else in this game did either (not to mention last seas was specifically designed to not reward the grinders). So yah, w/e man.

All of your logic is flawed here. Your all assuming we all start w/ a 50% mmr. We don’t. MMR was not reset. Some players have less than 50%. They won’t progress.

Also, players w/ low mmr might suck, they might not. If you suck and ur teammates suck and ur pitted against a winning team w/ higher mmr/more wins, you r most likely going to lose. If you don’t suck, but u have low mmr for w/e reasons, and ur teammates suck (or they dc or throw the game or don’t know strat or w/e) and ur pitted against a winning team w/ higher mmr/more wins u r most likely going to lose. Your better than average solo q player cannot carry a team of 4 random newbies to victory against 5 seasoned ts coordinated pros (or even just “winners”). Its not real. Extrapolate this out over however many games u like, and ur still paired w/ low mmr players w/ more losses than wins against players w/ higher mmrs/wins. Guess who will progress and win and guess who will not progress, or worse, with no mmr reset, guess who will go into the oblivion pit.

W/e. Ur all trying to justify something, sounding all logical and stuff, but the reality is, there are many good players out there, who were good at pvp, and they got stuck in mmr hell and quit. They are gone now never to return. What a shame. And all u guys do is talk and yap about how they deserved to quit cuz they weren’t good to begin with. I can tell you ur talk is la la la not real. Gw 2 lost a lot of good players. The pros soon will have no player base to play against. So sad. So pointless. So needlessly punitive.

StickerHappy.8052:

Durzlla.6295:

StickerHappy.8052:

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

I was out of town the whole week this season started due to work, got back to be paired with players that were so unbearably bad I can’t even bring myself to even want to play sPvP anymore this season.

I’ve literally watched my team try to rotate as the enemy showed up to points, leave rangers in downed states in 1v1s, leave a fight when I come to +1 it so we could win, etc.

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

This wasnt true for me in S2. Came in 15 days from the end. I loved my teammates, I seemed to get people who listened and stuck to the plan/good rotations almost every match.

The other teams seemed almost exclusively awful though, by comparison. At least until the later games which you can see by the scores.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and u r rude and clueless to say it and u owe me personally an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

Words fail me.

Give you an example of how it’s not always your fault when you lose because this happened to me yesterday. I got matched up against some person I know from last season and he was a former diamond player of both seasons with quite good skills and understanding of the game. He got put up with a guild stack.

The guild stack literally showed up with PvE raid builds and eles were running staff. One shield bash and 1 mace hit was all it took for me to drop one of his eles. His team had 2 of those eles that just feed and don’t they can’t win a single fight. The other 2 on the 4 stack were running equally bad stuff with a thief trying to manfight a warrior and lose in 2 seconds and so on.

Sometimes thing happen that’s not a player’s fault and matchmaking is purely to blame. Do you blame that he got matched with PvE scrubs his fault? He got diamond in both seasons and is a very good player. You are pretty delusional if you think matchmaking is perfect and can make zero mistakes.

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

Durzlla.6295:

StickerHappy.8052:

trunks.5249:

StickerHappy.8052:

I do not want to sound elitist, so I apologize in advance If I do.

I think the real problem with MM is not just the MMR or whatever, the problem is the pvp population who are skilled (mechanical,map awareness, rotations, pvp basics) only account for atleast ~20% of the people who que.

While the remaining 80% are either average, have no idea what they are doing, terrible mechanically, oblivious the other points except the point they are on, just started pvp, old pve players who jumped on the pvp train for the shinies, or a combination of all those.

So when the ~20% of the pvp population moves up in the higher divisions, the 80% are now on an FFA with random chances of getting the type of players that I mentioned.

My experience till ruby is very good, matched with ESL players or people who know about pvp, now when those players move up to diamond (either by winstreaks or luck or playing a lot of games) Everyone left in lower divisions will be a cesspool.

I had match that was 4v5 since the start in ruby and we still won.

TLDR: I think GW2 PvP population is comprised of majority of bad, average, plain out oblivious players, Hence you get MUCH MORE AWFUL games than decent ones.

not to sound like an kitten but this just isnt true. there are good players that get stuck with bad player and just cant advance you have no idea what it is like looking at the map and watching your team do the stupidest things .do i bump into players i have trouble beating or just cant beat sure but not has often has i do people i do beat. killing and getting caps only to watch your team ether 1.drop like fly’s 2. do not fight on point or just zerg. i apologize if i can not carry a team . i now know personal score means absolutely nothing . i have bumped into many that were in Diamond last season yet stuck in sapphire or ruby

EXACTLY MY POINT. You know why good players get stuck? because the probability of them getting teamed up with BADDIES is Higher because the bad population outnumber the good.

That is the point. My point is also accentuated when the good players (who were lucky, had the time to grind, etc) are in higher divisions.

So who are those in lower divisions with the casual skilled players?

PI-PONG. You guessed it.

I was out of town the whole week this season started due to work, got back to be paired with players that were so unbearably bad I can’t even bring myself to even want to play sPvP anymore this season.

I’ve literally watched my team try to rotate as the enemy showed up to points, leave rangers in downed states in 1v1s, leave a fight when I come to +1 it so we could win, etc.

Yea it is terrible, only way around this problem is that you have to play when the season starts, that way you will be on the same pace as the skilled players moving up to the divisions, avoiding that cesspool together. This ensures you get quality players on both sides.

This wasnt true for me in S2. Came in 15 days from the end. I loved my teammates, I seemed to get people who listened and stuck to the plan/good rotations almost every match.

The other teams seemed almost exclusively awful though, by comparison. At least until the later games which you can see by the scores.

I very much enjoyed Season 2 since it matches your team based on your MMR then threw you against another team in the division, so if you were a good player you played with similar skilled players and possibly against the kittenters until you left the kittenters in the dust and started having real matches.

Season 3 just pairs you by division, so it opens the flood gates of kittenters and makes you lose faith in humanity with every game.

EDIT: and just an FYI I’ve been progressing my win rate is like 57-65% but it’s easily one of the most miserable experiences I’ve had, I don’t choose to PvP to be the baby sitter of a bunch of idiots and carry my idiots to victory while kicking the other idiots away from me as I try to climb the ladder, it’s neither fun or exciting.

Fay.2357:

It’s not about luck, it’s about averages. Over time, you’ll have just as many awful players with you as you will see against you. Over time, it balanced out. In any given match it won’t be perfectly even, but over 100 matches it will be very very close.

That would be true if the system was matching you against equally skilled opponents, instead of purposefully creating imbalanced matches.
There will be people who, due to their mmr, will be placed on designated team more often than on the losing side. There will be people that will be assigned to be perpetual losers group too. The “averages” for them can differ significantly.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

If u have 2 teams.

team 1 Team 2

5(average) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
4(bad) 4(bad)
3(new) 4(bad

average team mmr on both teams = 4

U will see that the influence of the average player is simply not enough to make a big difference.

Such a matchup will never happpen, unless some of the players have their mmr significantly different from their real skills (which actually does happen, seeing as this matchmaking distorts ratings). Remember, that out of the 10 players, the top five will always be on the same side.

So, the point is that you might find a team of 5’s and 4’s matched agains team of 5’s and 6’s. Now, if you are that 5 in this example, you will win or lose not due to your skill, but due to matchmaker putting you on one side or the other.

This is pretty much proof matchmaking is total trash

You can’t tell me with a straight face these games are in any way fun.

Idk if this the right thread anymore, just gonna throw this up somewhere

Maybe with the AAA competitive games launch from the pass week. PVP Population migrate to shinny new game. Those who set thier goal to get wing just left for good. Less People in pool = ineffective match making. The rest are stoned AP grinders.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

You know, you know nothing.

I am not a bad player. I resent you calling me a bad player. I made it to dia last season. I was stuck in emerald w/ a 100+ losing streak. It was not my fault. I may have made mistakes, I could have been a better player (at times or always), I am not pro and don’t want to be, I tried to carry others, and I tried to never be carried.

I have played gw pvp almost daily for since gw 1 beta and gw 2 beta. When I had my losing streak in emerald, everyone told me to get good and it was all my fault, and to stop blaming others. THey told me I was an emerald player and I belonged there.

When I made it to dia – what then? Was I still an emerald player w/ a 100 game losing streak then? Or was I a dia player and my div reflected my personal skill.

Give me a break. Get over yourself. MMR hell is real, and w/o a mmr reset ea season (which I cannot believe anet did not do), ur bad mmr will follow u in spvp Forever and you will be pitted w/. poor or new/clueless players against “good” seasoned players Forever. Its not fun. Its not entertaining or relaxing. Its demoralizing and stupid and totally unnecessary and done for the sole purpose of blowing smoke up the pros noses (which stinks).

This is a team based pvp. Ur teammates dc. They suck. They manipulate. They kill but don’t know strat. Then, on top of it, when ur mmr holds you back deliberately and pits u w/ other players w/ low mmr/losses against players w/ higher mmr/wins, who do u think will win 90% of the time – and hence the perpetual downward spiral into mmr hell (last seas) or the stay-stuck/never progress forevermore (seas 3 and beyond) which ppl are experiencing now.

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and u r rude and clueless to say it and u owe me personally an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

And btw, I got out of my losing streak and I didn’t do a friggin thing different. I just played the same way I always did. And I didn’t grind any more than anyone else in this game did either (not to mention last seas was specifically designed to not reward the grinders). So yah, w/e man.

Yes, Eater of Peeps, a 100 game losing streak is your fault.

You will get no apology from me. I could let my dog lick the keyboard and he could manage to get a win somewhere within 100 games.

Anet is not blame for your complete refusal to change your play strategy and style – and neither is their matchmaking system.

You deserved every single one of those losses.

This is the biggest get good thread yet.

ellesee.8297:

This is the biggest get good thread yet.

Thats because we are three seasons in and we are still seeing the same whines. I’m not the biggest fan of a-nets devs but I am pretty sure we have gotten to the point where they have tuned the system quite a bit. This is most likely 90% plus it. Maybe they could make it another 10% better. The choice is pretty much to stay or leave at this point. Continuing the same tired parade of whining is not productive.

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Yeah, it’s not merely a matter of winning half the time. How you do it matter a lot. Win streaks are important to reach high levels WLWLWL while being 50% still yield no pip gain while LLLWWWL is below 50% and give you 1 pip. Having 50% win rate isn’t really hard. Getting that third win in a row OTOH when you are of average MMR…

Still, I have my back-pack so I can play more relaxed now…

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Still, I have my back-pack so I can play more relaxed now…

The true problem here. Playing for a backpack vs Playing to win.

Loss when playing for a backpack = Salt, tears, lamentations, cursing of Anet, etc.

Loss when playing to win = Take loss for what it was, seek to reach greater heights of self improvement in next match.

Loss when playing to win = Take loss for what it was, seek to reach greater heights of self improvement in next match.

That’s normally the case but with MMR at stake a loss carries the risk of weaker teammates and stronger opposition. Know what I saw in the lobby? Exalted and Primordial Legends still in Sapphire and some I even faced off against in unranked today. Okay, I don’t mind losing unranked but how are you supposed to compete against Exalted Legends? At least three of the games in the picture had them (one of them a unranked Primordial Legend in unranked).

The games were close but I know I could have done better at times.

Agemnon.4608:

Loss when playing to win = Take loss for what it was, seek to reach greater heights of self improvement in next match.

That’s normally the case but with MMR at stake a loss carries the risk of weaker teammates and stronger opposition. Know what I saw in the lobby? Exalted and Primordial Legends still in Sapphire and some I even faced off against in unranked today. Okay, I don’t mind losing unranked but how are you supposed to compete against Exalted Legends? At least three of the games in the picture had them (one of them a unranked Primordial Legend in unranked).

The games were close but I know I could have done better at times.

All your defeats are VERY close matches.

I highlighted the fact you’re on the right path, so I take your response as approval of mine :)

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Deborah.7248:

“a 50% winrate guarantees progression”

This is false. The key to progressing is purely in how you win, not some magical winrate %.

3 examples:
Person A: W, L, W, L, W, L, W, W, L, L, W, L, etc 50% winrate 0 pip gain
Person B: W, W, W, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, etc 50% winrate 2 pip gain
Person C: W, W, W, L, L, L, L, W, W, W, L, L, L, L, 43% winrate 1 pip gain

B and C can hit legendary by repeating the pattern thru sheer number of games, while A cannot despite being better than C and equal to B.

I know it’s unrealistic to expect these 3 patterns to repeat with no deviation but the point remains. Basically if you can not abuse the double pip gain one way or another you can not advance with ‘just’ a 50% winrate. If you can win 3 matches in a row and have a winrate above 43% you deserve to be in legendary. The only limiting factor is number of games played to hit the necessary combo of double pip gains to pull it off.

Still, I have my back-pack so I can play more relaxed now…

The true problem here. Playing for a backpack vs Playing to win.

Loss when playing for a backpack = Salt, tears, lamentations, cursing of Anet, etc.

Loss when playing to win = Take loss for what it was, seek to reach greater heights of self improvement in next match.

I think you misunderstood me if you think the backpack is what has drawn me to pvp. I pvp since year 1 and I like pvp for the competition. I always play to the end and to win and I’m not afraid to say I’m an asset to teams I’m playing on with my main.

However, the way the MM work has often, too often, been very frustrating for me inside the frame of the new seasons (for several reasons that are not even related with advancement at all). The logic behind individual MMR is pure garbage and has too often lead to mediocre pvp experiences for me. I had hoped Anet would have made a choice about who their target audience was going to be (elite or casual idc) but they didn’t chose. The pvp experience being inferior inside the season has left me with little but the backpack to motivate me is all…

I’m glad if you are having a blast but for me it’s either us stomping or getting stomped… not much to be exited about one way or the other…

That’s all well and good, but I’m now one of those people who are only in it for the backpack, because otherwise, the matchmaking has made ranked pvp completely unbearable.

I know I’m not an elite player, but I don’t exactly suck, either. Season 1, I got to the middle of Sapphire just by playing 2-3 rounds a day, 3-4 days a week. I would win, on average, about 45% of my matches. (Actually, I probably won far more than that, because I could usually get both daily profession winner dailies done in those 2-3 matches, though I’d sometimes suffer through a 3- to 5-match losing streak.) Since the start of Season 2, however, I lose about 90% of my matches. (Currently, I just made it to Tier 3 of Amber. I’ve won 5 out of 19 matches, so I’m doing a little better than I did in Season 2, but still quite a bit worse than I did in Season 1.) My problem is, I keep getting matched up on teams with people who just want to run around and 1v1 off point and have no concept of the tactics of the various maps, but matched against teams that have at least a half of a sense of what they’re doing. So, while I would be on the ugly side of a huge mismatch every now and again in Season 1 (like, maybe 1 out of 10-15 matches, while also being on the high side of such a mismatch about the same amount of times), since the start of Season 2, I’m not only losing most of my matches, I’m losing them in huge lopsided matches, like 500+ to 150 or less.

They should go back to using the matchmaking they had in place in Season 1, and just let the more elite players start the season either where they left off or very near that.

As it is, the only reason I’m playing Ranked PvP, instead of unranked, where I still win about 50% of the time or more, is to complete the Year of the Ascension achievements (currently 2 of 11 in Part III).

Fay.2357:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and those of you who suggest it was solely my skill level and my fault alone are rude and clueless to say it and u owe me an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

Words fail me.

Why?

Is it inconceivable to you that in the first week of last season I played 12 hrs a day and lost against the pros on ts who were blowing thru the ranks when I solo q joined and got a 100 game losing streak because my mmr declined and it pitted me w/ weaker and brand new players (who had 50% mmr) against Pro teams. Pro teams. I was solo que. No ts. No coordination w/ other pugs. The pros were, needless to say, coordinated. They won. I tanked my mmr unwittingly, because no one warned me until about week 3 when the complaining started that as a solo quer I should never have hit the enter button until the pros blew thru. I didn’t realize how the algorithm worked until it was too late. I didn’t realize it was that important to not let ur mmr drop too much.

I have over 2500 ranked pvp games. I am not new to this. I do not suck. However, now my low mmr (despite making it to dia last seas and the seas before, all as solo q) has not been reset and I am at about 43% and its nearly impossible to progress. Now my low mmr will follow me forever. Forever. I will get to teach brand new players strat all day long. Do you think that is fun for me, especially since we just lose and lose and lose, cuz new players truly have no idea (not their fault) how to play strat (only exp teaches u how to win strategically).

Did I do something to deserve this punitive treatment? Especially since in that first week of last seas, many ppl still thought it was a good idea to afk like they did in seas 1 (which I protested that activity then too). What exactly is it in my words that you seem to find ludicrous or something, since what I have said leaves u without a voice.

Rigante.2470:

ellesee.8297:

This is the biggest get good thread yet.

Thats because we are three seasons in and we are still seeing the same whines. I’m not the biggest fan of a-nets devs but I am pretty sure we have gotten to the point where they have tuned the system quite a bit. This is most likely 90% plus it. Maybe they could make it another 10% better. The choice is pretty much to stay or leave at this point. Continuing the same tired parade of whining is not productive.

You’re actually advocating that ppl quit the game. No room for improvement here. It’s as good as its gonna get, and ppl who don’t like it should leave. Hmmm. Love it or leave it huh? Novel concept – how bout love it or change it, till ppl stop quitting/complaining, or at least there isn’t such a huge rage storm like there is now. With this many ppl complaining and quitting, u would think ppl would get the concept that for many players the experience is nothing short of horrible. Why devise a game that makes some ppl who paid the same money for the game as everyone else be penalized so harshly? And yah, I get it, life isn’t fair, and some have to lose – but shouldn’t it be somewhat fair in a game? Shouldn’t we all start out on a level playing field. I mean, really, how hard is it to reset mmr ea season? I mean really, a 100 game losing streak in emerald last seas when Ive played well over 2500 ranked games and made it to dia each seas solo q w/ no help? Something appears rotten, and I can assure u all, it isn’t just my skill.

In other competitive games, nobody loses 100 games in a row. They might be in bronze/paper leagues but at least they can get some wins here and there. GW2 is the only game that punishes people so heavily and it’s just bad.

As I showed in another thread, the game is not keeping accurate win/loss records. That may well account for some of the matchmaking issues also.

All I’ve gotta say is that if you are capable of losing 100 games in a row there’s something wrong with the match making, I don’t care how unbelievably bad at the game you are, you should not be capable of losing that many games in a row. the only scenario I could see that being possible is if someone whose true place in PvP was Amber Tier 1 was playing on their friends account in Legendary/Diamond, but in any real scenario it shouldn’t be happening.

StickerHappy.8052:

Substance E.4852:

That’s what happens when you have a PvE reward in PvP.

Anyone could have seen this coming from a mile away when The Ascension was announced.

Actually it is a PVP reward.

The problem is there is no gate for it so that it should be a pvp exclusive option.

Like map completion in PvE. There should have been a gate of some sort so we could filter people who has no idea of how pvp works.

Except that there is a gate to it…..

Requiring at least 60 days of playing PvP, requiring crossing divisions 10 times, the required wins, profession achievements. All of those are the gate to the PvP backpack.

Your suggestion to make people play 2,000 unranked matches before being allowed to enter the ranked matches, and therefore before being allowed to even start the achievements towards getting the backpack, is absurd. If we’re sticking to PvP vs PvE its almost like you suggesting that a PvE player would have to put in 500 hours of PvE playtime before he can start going for map completion to earn the gift of exploration needed for pre HoT legendaries. The required achievements are the gate to the backpack, in the same way that map completion is the gate to preHoT legendary weapons. Its stupidly redundant to want to put a gate on being able to access the gate to something.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

I am not a bad player. I resent you calling me a bad player. I made it to dia last season. I was stuck in emerald w/ a 100+ losing streak. It was not my fault. I may have made mistakes, I could have been a better player (at times or always), I am not pro and don’t want to be, I tried to carry others, and I tried to never be carried.

I have played gw pvp almost daily since gw 1 beta and gw 2 beta. When I had my losing streak in emerald, everyone told me to get good and it was all my fault, and to stop blaming others. THey told me I was an emerald player and I belonged there.

When I made it to dia – what then? Was I still an emerald player w/ a 100 game losing streak then? Or was I a dia player and my div reflected my personal skill?

Give me a break. Get over yourselves. MMR hell is real, and w/o a mmr reset ea season (which I cannot believe anet did not do), ur bad mmr will follow u in spvp forever and you will be pitted with poor or new/clueless players against “good” seasoned players forever. Its not fun. Its not entertaining or relaxing. Its demoralizing and stupid and totally unnecessary and done for the sole purpose of blowing smoke up pros noses (which stinks).

This is team based pvp. Teammates dc. Sometimes they simply suck. Sometimes they manipulate. Sometimes I suck. Sometimes teammates kill ok 1 v 1 but don’t know strat. Then, on top of it, when ur mmr holds you back deliberately and pits u w/ other players w/ low mmr/losses against players w/ higher mmr/wins, who do u think will win 90% of the time – and hence the perpetual downward spiral into mmr hell (last seas) or the stay-stuck/never progress forevermore (seas 3 and beyond) which ppl are experiencing now.

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and those of u who espouse that players who have low mmr or losing streaks because they are not good are rude and clueless to say that. I feel anyone who says that owes me an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

And btw, I got out of my losing streak and I didn’t do a friggin thing different. I just played the same way I always did. And I didn’t grind any more than anyone else in this game did either (not to mention last seas was specifically designed to not reward the grinders). So yah, w/e man.

I refuse to believe you had 100 losing streak, proof or it didn’t happen. It is not possible even if you sit at home every single game because sometimes enemy disconnect. I do not believe you at all.

fishball.7204:

In other competitive games, nobody loses 100 games in a row. They might be in bronze/paper leagues but at least they can get some wins here and there. GW2 is the only game that punishes people so heavily and it’s just bad.

Do you honestly believe the guy? had a 100 losing streak?

No. But there are screenshots of 20 losses which is pretty much just as bad.

warbignime.4610:

fishball.7204:

In other competitive games, nobody loses 100 games in a row. They might be in bronze/paper leagues but at least they can get some wins here and there. GW2 is the only game that punishes people so heavily and it’s just bad.

Do you honestly believe the guy? had a 100 losing streak?

He’s a brave and persistent bro. Reasonably one would expect they’re due for a win after losing around four or so games and the probabilities of a win should logically go up as you play more, but a huge 100 loss or even 20 loss streak is symptomatic of something systemic.

fishball.7204:

No. But there are screenshots of 20 losses which is pretty much just as bad.

20 loss happens in other pvp games too, it’s reasonable and common. But 100 loss in a row is absolutely ridiculous. Also this is not about how MM is, it’s about the guy making ridiculous claim without any proof.

20 loss is basically a sub 5% win rate. No games out there have a system that poor lmao.

Besides even if there were such games out there, they’re clearly not good examples to copy.

warbignime.4610:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

I am not a bad player. I resent you calling me a bad player. I made it to dia last season. I was stuck in emerald w/ a 100+ losing streak. It was not my fault. I may have made mistakes, I could have been a better player (at times or always), I am not pro and don’t want to be, I tried to carry others, and I tried to never be carried.

I have played gw pvp almost daily since gw 1 beta and gw 2 beta. When I had my losing streak in emerald, everyone told me to get good and it was all my fault, and to stop blaming others. THey told me I was an emerald player and I belonged there.

When I made it to dia – what then? Was I still an emerald player w/ a 100 game losing streak then? Or was I a dia player and my div reflected my personal skill?

Give me a break. Get over yourselves. MMR hell is real, and w/o a mmr reset ea season (which I cannot believe anet did not do), ur bad mmr will follow u in spvp forever and you will be pitted with poor or new/clueless players against “good” seasoned players forever. Its not fun. Its not entertaining or relaxing. Its demoralizing and stupid and totally unnecessary and done for the sole purpose of blowing smoke up pros noses (which stinks).

This is team based pvp. Teammates dc. Sometimes they simply suck. Sometimes they manipulate. Sometimes I suck. Sometimes teammates kill ok 1 v 1 but don’t know strat. Then, on top of it, when ur mmr holds you back deliberately and pits u w/ other players w/ low mmr/losses against players w/ higher mmr/wins, who do u think will win 90% of the time – and hence the perpetual downward spiral into mmr hell (last seas) or the stay-stuck/never progress forevermore (seas 3 and beyond) which ppl are experiencing now.

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and those of u who espouse that players who have low mmr or losing streaks because they are not good are rude and clueless to say that. I feel anyone who says that owes me an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

And btw, I got out of my losing streak and I didn’t do a friggin thing different. I just played the same way I always did. And I didn’t grind any more than anyone else in this game did either (not to mention last seas was specifically designed to not reward the grinders). So yah, w/e man.

I refuse to believe you had 100 losing streak, proof or it didn’t happen. It is not possible even if you sit at home every single game because sometimes enemy disconnect. I do not believe you at all.

LOL> I already proved it in seas 2. I was put to the test back then, and proved it. Not going thru all that work again just for u. Pls stop calling me a liar. Its really offensive and rude and I take umbrage at it. I’m not lying. It did happen, and after playing on gw since gw1 beta and gw2 beta, I was so mad and frustrated I came to the forums for the first time to complain. I am an avid gw gamer, playing ea day (tho now I don’t as it is was too demoralizing now) in pvp for many more hours than any human should.

Pls stop calling me a liar. You owe me an apology.

warbignime.4610:

fishball.7204:

No. But there are screenshots of 20 losses which is pretty much just as bad.

20 loss happens in other pvp games too, it’s reasonable and common. But 100 loss in a row is absolutely ridiculous. Also this is not about how MM is, it’s about the guy making ridiculous claim without any proof.

I already proved it and proved it and proved it over and over in seas 2. In fact, ppl were so annoyed that I was giving daily updates/proof as it progressed. So give me a break. Stop calling me a liar, as that is what u r doing. In fact, anet even acknowledged that some players had experienced substantial losing streaks. Pls apologize. I will not be going thru the whole proof process all over again just for u.

Threat.7450:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Threat.7450:

The real problem with MM is the same as it has always been – people are simply not as good as they think they are.

No one wants to admit that they are a Ruby level player. Within the 80% of average players that the OP mentions, about half think they are pro. They freak out and get furious when they lose matches and blame teammates.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – it’s your fault. 100% your fault. Stop doing what you did for the last 20 matches and do something different. Play a different class, attack a different point, employ a different strategy… but please do something different.

Newsflash: if you are on a 20 game losing streak – you are not “legendary”. Stop assuming you belong there. I know for a fact that I do not, nor would I whine about a MM system as being the reason I lose matches.

I wish Anet would use some tough love and let the whiners know that not everyone is elite.

You know, you know nothing.

I am not a bad player. I resent you calling me a bad player. I made it to dia last season. I was stuck in emerald w/ a 100+ losing streak. It was not my fault. I may have made mistakes, I could have been a better player (at times or always), I am not pro and don’t want to be, I tried to carry others, and I tried to never be carried.

I have played gw pvp almost daily for since gw 1 beta and gw 2 beta. When I had my losing streak in emerald, everyone told me to get good and it was all my fault, and to stop blaming others. THey told me I was an emerald player and I belonged there.

When I made it to dia – what then? Was I still an emerald player w/ a 100 game losing streak then? Or was I a dia player and my div reflected my personal skill.

Give me a break. Get over yourself. MMR hell is real, and w/o a mmr reset ea season (which I cannot believe anet did not do), ur bad mmr will follow u in spvp Forever and you will be pitted w/. poor or new/clueless players against “good” seasoned players Forever. Its not fun. Its not entertaining or relaxing. Its demoralizing and stupid and totally unnecessary and done for the sole purpose of blowing smoke up the pros noses (which stinks).

This is a team based pvp. Ur teammates dc. They suck. They manipulate. They kill but don’t know strat. Then, on top of it, when ur mmr holds you back deliberately and pits u w/ other players w/ low mmr/losses against players w/ higher mmr/wins, who do u think will win 90% of the time – and hence the perpetual downward spiral into mmr hell (last seas) or the stay-stuck/never progress forevermore (seas 3 and beyond) which ppl are experiencing now.

My 100+ game losing streak was not my fault. It was certainly not 100% my fault and u r rude and clueless to say it and u owe me personally an apology because I have experienced mmr hell and I am not a bad player and it was not my fault that I lost more than 100 games in a row. Stop misleading players with ur random misrepresentations.

And btw, I got out of my losing streak and I didn’t do a friggin thing different. I just played the same way I always did. And I didn’t grind any more than anyone else in this game did either (not to mention last seas was specifically designed to not reward the grinders). So yah, w/e man.

Yes, Eater of Peeps, a 100 game losing streak is your fault.

You will get no apology from me. I could let my dog lick the keyboard and he could manage to get a win somewhere within 100 games.

Anet is not blame for your complete refusal to change your play strategy and style – and neither is their matchmaking system.

You deserved every single one of those losses.

No I didn’kittens

statistically impossible for someone to be that bad unless I was afk every match, which I wasn’t.

I made some mistakes, I’m not a pro. But I am not an emerald player as evidenced by my skill, achievements, exp, and divisions reached in all seas. Getting a 100+ losing streak in emerald (I know, tell me how I’m an emerald player, only I made it to dia), was not my fault. I may have contributed occasionally to some of my losses (as did u with yours), however, the bulk of my losses were incurred on days 1, 2, 3 of seas 2. I started w./ a win/loss ratio of 61%. By day 3, after playing endless hrs all 3 days, and getting trounced by pros teams (I was solo q), afkers who thought seas 1 was like 2 and it was helpful to lose, being paired w/ HOT newbies brand new to pvp who eventually, at 50% win/loss starting ratio, had higher ratios than me, and of course, the dcer’s which was prevalent the first few days (as it recently was during a pro match).

So perhaps, I am a singular example of how the system is skewed, but I can assure u and Fay that I am neither stupid nor inexperienced, and I am certainly not an unskilled pvper.

100% my fault. Give me a break. Your post is really personally offensive and u owe me an apology not only for the content of what you said, but for ur personally insulting and rude commentary as well.

And by the way, I made it to dia, and I didn’t change a thing in my play style, as I didn’t find it necessary to do so. I was content with my div at dia.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

warbignime.4610:

fishball.7204:

No. But there are screenshots of 20 losses which is pretty much just as bad.

20 loss happens in other pvp games too, it’s reasonable and common. But 100 loss in a row is absolutely ridiculous. Also this is not about how MM is, it’s about the guy making ridiculous claim without any proof.

I already proved it and proved it and proved it over and over in seas 2. In fact, ppl were so annoyed that I was giving daily updates/proof as it progressed. So give me a break. Stop calling me a liar, as that is what u r doing. In fact, anet even acknowledged that some players had experienced substantial losing streaks. Pls apologize. I will not be going thru the whole proof process all over again just for u.

So where was the proof? I checked your history and you did not have any screenshot, If you really was in that ridiculous situation where was the proof?