Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

OMG Anet is actually listening and appears to care? TY

Thank you for your great analysis.
I put a link into the German forum, because I think, it can help there, too, to understand what is happening.
A-Net should give a big reward to you!

Locuz.2651:

gloflop.3510:

1) In theory, it should not happen that a player once he reached a certain division loses 1000 games in a row. In theory, a player ranks up until he reaches the point where his mmr equals his league-rank. Then the player will have as much wins as losses. In practice, it does. I think nobody experienced 1000 losses but I read about players with a win/loss ratio of 40/60 or 30/70.

That would be the case if losing divsions (+ in some cases tiers) was a thing. If that was the case divisions would be a better representation of skill. Right now lucky streaks due to DCs etc can mean ppl get pushed up to divisions where they dont belong.

We talk here about diamond-division. Hence, the player has to fluke his way through ruby. That is quiet improbable. DCs occur not so often and sometimes hit your own team. However, this is just the theory. If the system works as planned, the division-lock should not matter. The best players will jump to the next division, worse players will follow. The best players will rank up, the worse will rank up further and new double-worse players will follow, etc. In case your skill-level ranked up and you are “right” there, you will have a win/loss ratio of 50%. This means, you will win as many games as you lose. Hence, if we allow losing a division, you would get it back straight. The theory says that you cannot have a lower win/loss ratio than 50%. That is the point where I would start with.

awesomeanonymous.4285:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

OMG Anet is actually listening and appears to care? TY

hey evan if you are listening I would like to say a few more things. My other account is awsomeanonymous as named by my kid. I have roleplaying experience dating back to 1979 hehe. I imagined a four computer system that would allow the users to play D&D using the computer as thier Dungeonmaster way back then lol. Just curious and not trying to be rude but were you born back then? I also played everquest on the rallos zek server that had pvp anywhere on the map. I played WOW. I am a lifelong gamer and no I never really played D&D as an adult. yes I am the one the pros complained about as I got 420 wins in second season and had the most losses of any player on board LOL. But I was still learning and playing mesmer which was not really viable in pvp back then as far as I could see. But I always roleplayed the wizard and never wanted to be thief, warrior or cleric/guard. So, check me if ya like I now have 5000 plus games of gw2 pvp experience on this and my other account and have learned how not to pull my team down. I do not mind being slightly weaker than my opponents who switch to the current OP profession. I almost always single queue and assumed that my 45% win loss ratio was due to my learning slowly, solo queueing and weaker profession and my skill level combined. but I did rise to 32 on first board after stating mid season with no pvp experience. I got to 76 on second board but probably hurt my teams as my mesmer would die so fast I would rush gate or pester far rather than die fast at mid lol. I played regular mesmer during first season and lost alot so I switched accounts to try Chronomancer. I could not afford to buy HOT on both accounts. This was the only time I felt like memser was balanced with other profesions. With chrono on my awesomeanonymous account I almost got to diamond even though I started mid season and this account at emerald. I felt then that I had a better understanding of what it took to be competitive and 4000 plus matches played. Season 2 has really been hell and when I realized the nature of mmr hell so to speak I realized how bad Anet had screwed up. the only way out of downward spiral as I see it isto get a new account, group with good players and use TS, wipe all your characters to make your account new, or quit playing. I chose the latter and quit as I can only stand so much abuse. I hope you guys realize that roleplaying can affect real life and I say this not to be rude but to put forth the real possibility that this mmr based system could affect a person’s mental health in real life. I am not saying I am suicidal but could imagine a person becoming suicidal as I experienced some depression caused by my real life circumstances and the loss of my ability to enjoy my gaming. Seriously, and again I am not trying to be an kitten or convince anet to change but people have killed themselves due to roleplaying experiences. I hope that never happens as I have seen at least 4 people I know die this way but not due to roleplaying. Just to be clear I am not talking about people dying due to GW2 roleplaying but could imagine that it is possible. Again I am not saying I am suicidal and not trying to mean or convining but to suggest a real possibility for a person that already has mental problems OK?
Again please don’t hate me for considering real possibilities and I apologize if this offends anyone. Remove this post promptly if you feel my discussion is too deep for this chatboard, but I do think it is worthy of consideration by anet OK? I really did not intend say this stuff at the beginning of my writing but this is what came out. SORRY

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Thing is , how many more times you are going to disappoint and fail the players with your wrong decisions? Some already had enough

Great stuff, sadly statistically monkeys would probably guess better matches than current matching system. I’ve decided to stop playing PVP for that reason… only about 5% of matches feel right and fair for me and sadly I will have to face the fact that only very skilled and very lucky will get the wings.

The only thing ANET can do to make up for our lost time in PVP is to not reset the achievements at the end of the year and whoever was responsible for approving this algorithm should be replaced immediately because he screwed over a lot of people.

why ArenaNet make a simple MMR system
problem is now that many people r getting huge loss streaks
Make it simple
on -+0 u got 50% win that game same as the opponent
if u win the next game has lower chance to win
if u lose the next game has higher chance to win
lost u got 60%
lost again u got 70% etc.
highest win streak ive had in whole season was 7 (not talking div1,2,3)
in diamond i had 29 lost streak and biggest was 7 win streak
+ some classes r so unbalanced at the moment.

Hey guys, did you really actually look into OP’s report before blaming everything on MMR hell?

Please note the few things on OP’s report:
1. Matchup systems from both season 1 and season2 have problems. But season 2 matchup is better in terms of reflecting true player skills(even with MMR hell existing)

2. MMR hell is mostly due to login randomness. I interpret this as at certain times the system can’t find good meaningful games with limited amount of player in a certain pip region.

3. Uneven matches are bad but they shouldn’t affect MMR by that much. When you are in a losing streak against vast superior teams. It really shouldn’t punish your MMR ratings that badly.

Exciton.8942:

Hey guys, did you really actually look into OP’s report before blaming everything on MMR hell?

Please note the few things on OP’s report:
1. Matchup systems from both season 1 and season2 have problems. But season 2 matchup is better in terms of reflecting true player skills(even with MMR hell existing)

2. MMR hell is mostly due to login randomness. I interpret this as at certain times the system can’t find good meaningful games with limited amount of player in a certain pip region.

3. Uneven matches are bad but they shouldn’t affect MMR by that much. When you are in a losing streak against vast superior teams. It really shouldn’t punish your MMR ratings that badly.

I mostly agree about the first 2 points. It’s the third one that I have an issue with when most of the PVE horde, that hardly ever play PVP except to get AP or goodies, are defacto of average MMR but of clearly WAY below that actual skill level most of the time.

So if you get paired with them because you are around 55% win/45 loose (an average ratio like them except your is real) you might get demolish because you team didn’t perform anywhere close to what they are supposed to and then the spiral starts or at least become a tar pit for some unlucky ppl.

If you were randomly paired this would simply not be an issue at all. But so far the silence about that suggestion is speaking a lot despite the utter lack of valid argument against.

Exciton.8942:

Hey guys, did you really actually look into OP’s report before blaming everything on MMR hell?

Please note the few things on OP’s report:
1. Matchup systems from both season 1 and season2 have problems. But season 2 matchup is better in terms of reflecting true player skills(even with MMR hell existing)

2. MMR hell is mostly due to login randomness. I interpret this as at certain times the system can’t find good meaningful games with limited amount of player in a certain pip region.

3. Uneven matches are bad but they shouldn’t affect MMR by that much. When you are in a losing streak against vast superior teams. It really shouldn’t punish your MMR ratings that badly.

so is there a safeguard in place for MMR in matchups against superior opponents then that means that the MMR does not drop

godsie.2864:

Exciton.8942:

Hey guys, did you really actually look into OP’s report before blaming everything on MMR hell?

Please note the few things on OP’s report:
1. Matchup systems from both season 1 and season2 have problems. But season 2 matchup is better in terms of reflecting true player skills(even with MMR hell existing)

2. MMR hell is mostly due to login randomness. I interpret this as at certain times the system can’t find good meaningful games with limited amount of player in a certain pip region.

3. Uneven matches are bad but they shouldn’t affect MMR by that much. When you are in a losing streak against vast superior teams. It really shouldn’t punish your MMR ratings that badly.

so is there a safeguard in place for MMR in matchups against superior opponents then that means that the MMR does not drop

MMR in uneven matches does drop but far less than in a even matchup.

It’s unanimously real. In a two outcome game (win/lose) getting 10+ losses in a row is highly improbable and if that happens then the system itself is messed up. I don’t think anyone in LoL ever had this much bad luck.

Agemnon.4608:

It’s unanimously real. In a two outcome game (win/lose) getting 10+ losses in a row is highly improbable and if that happens then the system itself is messed up. I don’t think anyone in LoL ever had this much bad luck.

Agemnon it’s not 50% chance for either the probability for a victory or loss depends upon the time of the day, current pip range and individual skill. Disregarding MMR.

They can’t possibly expect a 50% win rate at anytime. The outcome is completely dependent on the randomness of whoever is within pip range, and with legendary players going back through the ladder over and over there is always a chance of being greatly outmatched. This is the opposite of what Anet said would happen. They said players would spread out over time based on skill, but if players are using alt accounts to go back through the ladder, the lower level players aren’t getting the opportunity to have competitive matches toward the end of the season like they were promised.

R O C.6574:

They can’t possibly expect a 50% win rate at anytime.

They do: see here

Alt accounts will always be an imbalance factor, regardless of the system. Because the system can’t differ between a new accont and an alt account.
But i think you overestimate the amount of legend player who go through low divisions over and over. Players starting at different points of the league and playing a different amount of games is leading to more imbalance (especially in low divisions) than those alt accounts i guess.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Alt accounts will always be an imbalance factor, regardless of the system. Because the system can’t differ between a new accont and an alt account.
But i think you overestimate the amount of legend player who go through low divisions over and over. Players starting at different points of the league and playing a different amount of games is leading to more imbalance (especially in low divisions) than those alt accounts i guess.

The good thing about an alt account is your experience and skill gained from time on your main will carry over without the baggage of all those previous losses effecting your MMR. Many of those games were from different metas and before HoT powercreep but those losses got ironed out, but then this current matchmaking system happened and really did terrible things to our MMR a blank slate is in order. I think an option to completely wash our MMR and win/loss record would be good since we shouldn’t have to buy another copy of the game to be disadvantaged by the lack of HoT powercreep.

Those “old” losses will only play a role if your MMR is below average. If you have significantly improved over time and played enough games your MMR should reflect this and will be above average (= higher than on a new account) regardless of your old mistakes. Keep in mind, winrate doesn’t equal MMR.

Power.2957:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.

So make it MMR vs MMR again.

Anyway, “top players” don’t need a faulty Match Making to wins matches, isn’t?

Jourdelune.7456:

Power.2957:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.

So make it MMR vs MMR again.

Anyway, “top players” don’t need a faulty Match Making to wins matches, isn’t?

The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.

R O C.6574:

The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.

Is it really punishing them? All these great players have all been telling us how hard they carry so presumably it is still an easy win for them and a better, dare I say it, more competitive, match for everyone.

Isn’t the current system more “punishing” for lower MMR players by stacking the odds continuously against them?

There are lots of sports with a handicap system designed to make the match, or race, more even.

This is after all a game that people play for fun at the end of the day, a small number of professionals aside. The devs lost sight of that fact this season and I am sure will fix this problem for next season or there will a very very small pool of players left in the Mists.

Jak Shadow.2864:

R O C.6574:

The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.

Is it really punishing them? All these great players have all been telling us how hard they carry so presumably it is still an easy win for them and a better, dare I say it, more competitive, match for everyone.

Isn’t the current system more “punishing” for lower MMR players by stacking the odds continuously against them?

There are lots of sports with a handicap system designed to make the match, or race, more even.

This is after all a game that people play for fun at the end of the day, a small number of professionals aside. The devs lost sight of that fact this season and I am sure will fix this problem for next season or there will a very very small pool of players left in the Mists.

It’s a breath of fresh air having equal-skilled teammates, win or lose. Going back to unranked is painful now because the spread of skill within one team is often enormous.

Salamander.2504:

It’s a breath of fresh air having equal-skilled teammates, win or lose. Going back to unranked is painful now because the spread of skill within one team is often enormous.

I understand that the simple solution if you don’t like the team mates the system is giving you, having received much sage advice on these forums to that effect, is to form your own team.

S1 and S2 both have there own problems. This season is definitely punishing lower level players. Personally, I think S1 was better. Maybe give extra pips for carrying a match. If the MMR difference between best and worst player passes a certain threshold, the higher level player is eligible for an extra pip if they win. S2 might have worked but alt accounts and late starts are not allowing the skill levels to spread out the way Anet said it would.

Jak Shadow.2864:

R O C.6574:

The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.

Is it really punishing them? All these great players have all been telling us how hard they carry so presumably it is still an easy win for them and a better, dare I say it, more competitive, match for everyone.

Isn’t the current system more “punishing” for lower MMR players by stacking the odds continuously against them?

There are lots of sports with a handicap system designed to make the match, or race, more even.

This is after all a game that people play for fun at the end of the day, a small number of professionals aside. The devs lost sight of that fact this season and I am sure will fix this problem for next season or there will a very very small pool of players left in the Mists.

Should good players get some reward for carrying? I would say yes.

All it takes is really a league system similar to all other games out there: league rank that reflects your MMR.

To be honest, some below-average players are asking too much. They are basically asking both a prestigious rank AND a carry from high skill-level player.

Why should there be any reward for PvP except the standard reward tracks. This was how it used to be and it was fine.

Get rid of this stupid league based system which doesn’t do what it is supposed to in terms of defining skill, or bringing more players into the game mode, and just bring back to the MMR based ladder with better decay. Simple.

I see two options for a working season:
1) Make MMR visible and match the players according to their MMR. The “league”-position would then reflect the MMR without having to go through all the divisions again.

2) Make a proper league system. It would require to abandon MMR at all. Players are matched according to their current league-rank independent of their MMR. It will be a mess in the beginning but in the long run should equal everything out. It would also require more divisions. Abandoning the division-locks after e.g. division 4 could also be included.

The current system leads to nothing and should be abandond asap. Furthermore, whoever designed the system should think about why he has not forseen the problems (I claim, they were forseeable).

Questino to OP"

Is your model considering that at peak hours the amount of premades/parties increase significantly?

QQ

Jak Shadow.2864:

Salamander.2504:

It’s a breath of fresh air having equal-skilled teammates, win or lose. Going back to unranked is painful now because the spread of skill within one team is often enormous.

I understand that the simple solution if you don’t like the team mates the system is giving you, having received much sage advice on these forums to that effect, is to form your own team.

I prefer to solo/duo que and frankly prefer not to carry players who are noticeably worse than myself/my duo que partner. Going back to unranked is a huge wake-up call, for those who forget how idiotic it is. This season’s ranked system made me realize how dumb the unranked matchmaking system actually is.

The ranked system right now is the closest to a tournament style we’ve ever had. If you’re bad, you get farmed for a few days, if you’re good, you don’t. That’s how every competitive sport is—the top seeds get matched with the lowest seeds at the start of the tournament. If you can’t deal with that, or aren’t good enough, stay out of ranked. That’s how the community treated ranked before leagues, but now every casual/PvE’er feels entitled to progress through the leagues. Good players don’t play ranked to farm noobs and couldn’t care less that noobs are threatening to leave.

This season’s ranked system made me realize how dumb the unranked matchmaking system actually is.

I actually like it and even losses despite you being just about the only one who knows what to do and going on can still be fun.

Salamander.2504:

If you can’t deal with that, or aren’t good enough, stay out of ranked. That’s how the community treated ranked before leagues, but now every casual/PvE’er feels entitled to progress through the leagues. Good players don’t play ranked to farm noobs and couldn’t care less that noobs are threatening to leave.

If you read any of my posts you will see I would advocate a return to the old leader-board style system, which is how “the community” treated ranked before. I was in the top 10% on the last MMR ladder and had no problems with it all.

But matchmaking then was exactly the same as ranked is now and no-one really complained about it. What people, rightly, complained about was how MMR decay was dealt with.

kitten sight better than this kitten which is not only going to lose them casual PvErs but people like me who barely do PvE and have over 5,000 games in PvP. And even the “good” players will care when there are “noobs” left to farm even on their alts.

Since the advice to those having problems this season has been to group up I find it ironic that “better” players who presumably play more and so know more people in the “community” don’t want to have to take the same medicine.

Jak Shadow.2864:

Salamander.2504:

If you can’t deal with that, or aren’t good enough, stay out of ranked. That’s how the community treated ranked before leagues, but now every casual/PvE’er feels entitled to progress through the leagues. Good players don’t play ranked to farm noobs and couldn’t care less that noobs are threatening to leave.

Since the advice to those having problems this season has been to group up I find it ironic that “better” players who presumably play more and so know more people in the “community” don’t want to have to take the same medicine.

The advice offered to players losing a lot, “to group up” is in direct response to huge loss streaks followed by blaming teammates (of similar MMR) in ranked matches. “Better” players don’t feel the need to group up because they aren’t blaming their teammates for 30+ loss streaks.

I don’t want to have to “take the same medicine” in ranked, where I’m already generally content with the skill of my teammates, because win or lose, the MMR system is matching me with similarly skilled players. Unranked is a whole other story, where if you have high MMR and don’t team up, you’re actively asking to get noobs placed on your team. This is the worst system (e.g., S1). Playing with (and against) people who are outside of your skill-range simply isn’t fun. I’d be happy never setting foot in that matchmaking system again.

That’s the one really great thing about S2 matchmaking: that you’re put on teams of similar MMR. I’m not saying S2 matchmaking is perfect (or even close), but that aspect of it is truly great. I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

Do you know what is hell? You lose 20 arenas, so you group up with people who you know are good (just casual group without TS). You start winning. You win a few matches. And then bam…. you get teamed against a guild team with masochistic team composition and voice-over program…..try to fight that.

In the end, now in the ruby division, I am pushed to get into some PVP guild and play only like that. But there is no way I will do it. So I always just log in to lose 3 matches for daily and then I go PVE.

There is literally no fun in playing PVP anymore.

Salamander.2504:

I don’t want to have to “take the same medicine” in ranked, where I’m already generally content with the skill of my teammates

Well that is hardly surprising is it. I think you are in the minority though, so don’t be surprised if it changes for S3.

Salamander.2504:

Jak Shadow.2864:

Salamander.2504:

If you can’t deal with that, or aren’t good enough, stay out of ranked. That’s how the community treated ranked before leagues, but now every casual/PvE’er feels entitled to progress through the leagues. Good players don’t play ranked to farm noobs and couldn’t care less that noobs are threatening to leave.

Since the advice to those having problems this season has been to group up I find it ironic that “better” players who presumably play more and so know more people in the “community” don’t want to have to take the same medicine.

The advice offered to players losing a lot, “to group up” is in direct response to huge loss streaks followed by blaming teammates (of similar MMR) in ranked matches. “Better” players don’t feel the need to group up because they aren’t blaming their teammates for 30+ loss streaks.

I don’t want to have to “take the same medicine” in ranked, where I’m already generally content with the skill of my teammates, because win or lose, the MMR system is matching me with similarly skilled players. Unranked is a whole other story, where if you have high MMR and don’t team up, you’re actively asking to get noobs placed on your team. This is the worst system (e.g., S1). Playing with (and against) people who are outside of your skill-range simply isn’t fun. I’d be happy never setting foot in that matchmaking system again.

That’s the one really great thing about S2 matchmaking: that you’re put on teams of similar MMR. I’m not saying S2 matchmaking is perfect (or even close), but that aspect of it is truly great. I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

well I sincerely hope not for the benefit of pvp but then I am past caring I will carry on anyway but blow outs for me now are the norm

I was in a team of nearly all rubies and a diamond versus a team of nearly all rubies and an emerald…now logically my team should have won but the enemy team got by with a very close upset.

I wanted to do a far and home split with an occasional teasing of mid but we had at least three who would hit mid and I didn’t want my team outnumbered there.

Why am I saying this? To tell you that upsets are possible (even if I was on the wrong end of it that match) and to hang in there.

I’m just glad they fixed this for this season. I got stuck in this hell last season and it made me quit for a few weeks. I was stuck in the 50% hell hole where I couldn’t even get out of emerald since every other match was a loss intermingled with 10 match losing streaks with the most awful players imaginable.

This season is much much improved. I was able to get right into ruby with almost no issues, and am still progressing towards legendary.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m just glad they fixed this for this season. I got stuck in this hell last season and it made me quit for a few weeks. I was stuck in the 50% hell hole where I couldn’t even get out of emerald since every other match was a loss intermingled with 10 match losing streaks with the most awful players imaginable.

This season is much much improved. I was able to get right into ruby with almost no issues, and am still progressing towards legendary.

How is it fixed? What did I miss?

R O C.6574:

Jourdelune.7456:

Power.2957:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.

So make it MMR vs MMR again.

Anyway, “top players” don’t need a faulty Match Making to wins matches, isn’t?

The problem with that is it punishes you for having a high MMR by pairing you with players with really low MMR to make the teams average out.

Nah… the problem with MMR vs MMR is the PIP range. kitten THE PIP RANGE. kitten THE GRIND. Problem solved.

All high mmr player should queue with high mmr players and be paired versus other high MMR player.

I don’t care if above average team are paired versus1 high mmr and 4 avg mmr….

The problem with our MMR vs MMR of season 1, was the divisions and pip range. Not the MMR skill based system.

And before the fix to smurfing, the MMR vs MMR system was better. But it should had just paired MMR vs MMR and don’t care about divisions. divisions means you have time to grind games, it’s not a good indicator of SKILL at all.

PROOF: 80% of Legendary players are average players that had time to grind 400 games.

R O C.6574:

S1 and S2 both have there own problems. This season is definitely punishing lower level players. Personally, I think S1 was better. Maybe give extra pips for carrying a match. If the MMR difference between best and worst player passes a certain threshold, the higher level player is eligible for an extra pip if they win. S2 might have worked but alt accounts and late starts are not allowing the skill levels to spread out the way Anet said it would.

The 2014 Leaderboard season was way better than anything else to show skill.

The problem with them:

1- Decay wasn’t good enough. You play 1 game of 2 weeks of nothing to get your rank back.
2- No indication of your RANK in game, meaning less value to it.
3- No rewards tied to it.

I say give back the old ranking system, tweak it further and put the GLORIOUS LEGENDARY REWARD track that is estimated at 200 games played / month grind.

Salamander.2504:

I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

This is the minimum acceptable including matches versus similar MMR opponent team.

Jourdelune.7456:

Salamander.2504:

I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

This is the minimum acceptable including matches versus similar MMR opponent team.

This very condition is what was a problem to all whose MMR was off mark this season. The MMR metric for individuals in a game mode where the unit is the team will always carry imperfections making happy and unhappy players. Specially when that team and the build is ever changing and your contribution to the outcome never the same.

Nobody should say it’s their MMR anymore than WvW players do. It’s the team or server MMR. When you change server on WvW you do not change your individual skill level. Why do ppl think this concept change when the scale become 5v5? Your contribution has more impact due to scale and the fact it’s 10 min, true, but the concept remain the same.

I’m bumping this because frankly it needs to be sticked.

No Evan, your reply isn’t good enough. Not by a long shot. What needs to happen is ArenaNet should apologize to the GW2 community for implementing this terrible, untested, poorly executed mess. It’s not good enough to just glibly congratulate the original poster through gritted teeth for completely exposing the massive flaws in your terrible matchmaking system. It’s not good enough to tell us that you’re “looking into it”. There is a reason why droves of people are now leaving GW2 competitive play, and this is one of them. The damage this has done to the wider audience is drastic. People have stopped PvPing because of this. It’s left a bad taste for many of us, and is completely antithetic to the concept of “competitive play”.

It’s a joke, a complete and utter joke that ArenaNet is still pushing GW2 as an eSport when the basic mechanics of how tier and league progression works is busted for the majority of players. And frankly your patronizing and neglectful reply is completely indicative at how ArenaNet operates and deals with it’s customers; nod, smile, then ignore what’s going on.

I mean it took someone like OP to do an exhaustive and irrefutable analysis of your busted, broke-kitten system to finally get a response, and what we get is weasel-words and meaningless drivel. This probably works wonders when you’re having committee meetings and team leader get-together’s but it’s downright insulting when you’re talking to customers who would like a reason why their product is rapidly turning into complete bunk.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jourdelune.7456:

Salamander.2504:

I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

This is the minimum acceptable including matches versus similar MMR opponent team.

This very condition is what was a problem to all whose MMR was off mark this season. The MMR metric for individuals in a game mode where the unit is the team will always carry imperfections making happy and unhappy players. Specially when that team and the build is ever changing and your contribution to the outcome never the same.

Nobody should say it’s their MMR anymore than WvW players do. It’s the team or server MMR. When you change server on WvW you do not change your individual skill level. Why do ppl think this concept change when the scale become 5v5? Your contribution has more impact due to scale and the fact it’s 10 min, true, but the concept remain the same.

20% vs .1% are pretty big differences so no the concept is not the same. WvW is not the same.

Are you a socialist?

MMR needs to be visible. The fact they hide it is BS.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jourdelune.7456:

Salamander.2504:

I hope that however ANet decides to change matchmaking for S3, we will maintain being placed on teams of self-similar MMR.

This is the minimum acceptable including matches versus similar MMR opponent team.

This very condition is what was a problem to all whose MMR was off mark this season. The MMR metric for individuals in a game mode where the unit is the team will always carry imperfections making happy and unhappy players. Specially when that team and the build is ever changing and your contribution to the outcome never the same.

Nobody should say it’s their MMR anymore than WvW players do. It’s the team or server MMR. When you change server on WvW you do not change your individual skill level. Why do ppl think this concept change when the scale become 5v5? Your contribution has more impact due to scale and the fact it’s 10 min, true, but the concept remain the same.

20% vs .1% are pretty big differences so no the concept is not the same. WvW is not the same.

Are you a socialist?

The concept you are suppose to grasp is that the metric isn’t even majorly yours in both cases. 20% or 1% is indeed a big difference, like I already said myself before if you cared to read, but the idea expressed is the same regardless of the scale: the metric is factually not yours but the team/server.

BTW, I’m more of an individualist than a socialist even if it’s blatantly obvious I’m more socialistic than you are.The army is the most socialistic structure that exist and the fact you are a platoon of 5 instead of a regiment of 100 changes nothing to it. My argument here is not based on ideology but on logic.

The concept and logic you are using are your opinion here.

NeXeD.3042:

The concept and logic you are using are your opinion here.

That is some solid argumentation right there…

Care to elaborate about what is my opinion and not a fact here?

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