Guild Wars 2

I understand that the Mesmer is the trickster class, and as such, it’s supposed to have some skills that are more alternative than normal.

However, I think the portal mechanic is way too important to the core of pvp’s gameplay, that it should be treated like the speed-buff signets or the ressurection utilities: available to several professions.

Of course, finding the flavor for that would be needed, because Mesmers are the ones that bend the shape and space of reality, aren’t they? – and that’s what portal does. But with different flavor it could even offer new/ different tricks.

A necromancer, for example, could probably summon an underworld portal at a given point. A pet/ minion/ whatever would come from it with cripple/ chill attacks. As a drawback, only the necromancer itself and the minions would be able to cross the portal, or maybe party members and opponents alike crossing through an underworld portal would need to sacrifice some HP. Or maybe it would generate neutral minion pets attacking any player, creating a short chaotic moment.

An elementalist would be able to leave some kind of whirlwind “portal” that would transport their party through with strong gusts. For the sake of flavor, it could probably have a pull-in effect at the portal entrance to all players (making it harder to use in a point where bunker player was left behind guarding it), and at the end of the “portal”, it would automatically launch to the ground and/ or daze the party that crossed it.

And I’m sure an Engineer could create some sort of crazy portal mechanism with randomized effects and explosions all around the zone.

If we want to go a bit further away from the mechanic itself, but keep the idea of map warping, a necromancer would leave part of his soul at the cost of their HP, and teleport back to that piece of soul if needed. A Guardian could leave an unique “spirit weapon”, generating a field that would punish opponents for standing within it by teleporting the Guardian back to that place with an holy/ burning explosion + push-back. (As a drawback, it would not be triggered by the own caster, so the Guardian could be warped back at the middle of a fight and find themselves unprepared, with low HP and in the middle of 2-3 players).

The only reason people see a mesmer as a “MUST HAVE” class is because of the few utilities (that get nerfed regularly) that they bring. Why would you give portal to an elementalist, who has the best mobility in the game that can also share swiftness with aura sharing + other ways. And why would you give portal to a guardian, which are much more “required” than a mesmer is. People will just complain that those two classes have become too important.

Turbo Whale.1738:

The only reason people see a mesmer as a “MUST HAVE” class is because of the few utilities (that get nerfed regularly) that they bring. Why would you give portal to an elementalist, who has the best mobility in the game that can also share swiftness with aura sharing + other ways. And why would you give portal to a guardian, which are much more “required” than a mesmer is. People will just complain that those two classes have become too important.

No they won’t because these classes are not Op, only Mesmer is and always will be. Even if they are afk, they are op!
(sarcasm)

Thats seriously what I feel like. Is that until mesmer no longer has anything to make themselves distinguished as a class only then will some people stop whining. But even then the MAJORITY of these posts will still come up… This is ridiculous

This is an idea about spreading an important, core mechanic through several classes, instead of being restricted to a single one, or else we’re getting the equivalent of the Monk class back: a single class out of many that can do something extremely important that no one else can.

It has nothing to do with making Mesmers less unique, because the clones, the shatters, the inversals and mirrors, the boon stripping and the rupting are all very distinct to the Mesmer class, and we’re only talking about a single utility anyways.

But there’s a large difference between classes sharing core mechanics, while keeping distinct, flavourful secondary mechanics; with classes having core mechanics all for themselves.

Also, this thread has nothing to do with the current balance (if eles and guardians are op, nerf them), and finally, this isn’t even a complain thread, if any of the mesmer fans even bothered to read this thread.

If portal was another class’s utility, and if that class was the most useless thing ever, I would still suggest this change.

Mesmers have THE WORST Mobility in the game… Portal helps counter that sometimes because its designed to TELEPORT them. We can’t control death… Our DPS is a joke compared to thieves and warriors. Noone can tank like a guardian… Its just getting old fast…. We have one weapon skill that allows group speed and that weapon is a joke… No traits signets or slot skills that guarantee movement speeds. A well placed portal before combat is of high value to the slowest class in the game cuz we can’t tuck tail and run like thieves mist form like ele or have a bagillion blocks like guardian’s and warriors… EVEN NECROS a supposed “neglected” class has a speed buff… Portal is our quick transport mechanism and asking for it to be nerfed or “removed” or shared so other classes can have it is RIDICULOUS. We have a TON of bugs that make our class weak in comparison to others and only a few skills and traits that really shine and we will be up in arms and screaming at the top of our lungs when people start asking for negative adjustments to our class because we have had to deal with them in EVERY patch since release and the qq crowd still won’t stop…

If the mesmer is using portal, they likely won’t have condition removal skills, stun breaker, or offensive/defense utility (clone generators). Exploit that and just kill the mesmer or learn how to knock back when you see a portal open. It takes a second before the F key is allowed to be used.

DiogoSilva.7089:

This is an idea about spreading an important, core mechanic through several classes, instead of being restricted to a single one, or else we’re getting the equivalent of the Monk class back: a single class out of many that can do something extremely important that no one else can.

It has nothing to do with making Mesmers less unique, because the clones, the shatters, the inversals and mirrors, the boon stripping and the rupting are all very distinct to the Mesmer class, and we’re only talking about a single utility anyways.

But there’s a large difference between classes sharing core mechanics, while keeping distinct, flavourful secondary mechanics; with classes having core mechanics all for themselves.

Also, this thread has nothing to do with the current balance (if eles and guardians are op, nerf them), and finally, this isn’t even a complain thread, if any of the mesmer fans even bothered to read this thread.

If portal was another class’s utility, and if that class was the most useless thing ever, I would still suggest this change.

Every class needs to bring something different, powerful, useful, and amazing to the group. This way, when creating a 5 person roster, actual thinking needs to go into which of these special abilities you think will compliment other ones, which ones you feel work better with the team, etc. What does a mesmer bring? Portals and Timewarp. All of those distinct class mechanics you mentioned like clones, shatters, etc. are absolutely useless to a group (not to mention necros are much better boon strippers).

Mesmers are just like shamans in WoW at wotlk, party/people only need 1 for time warp (blood lust?) or portals.

Ah, another mesmer complaint thread. I guess the last round of nerfs still left a few people unable to kill all mesmers. Don’t worry, we’ll fix that soon enough!

Honestly this game marketed itself as anti-holy trinity. There shouldn’t be roles.

DaShi.1368:

Diogo has been regularly calling for mesmer nerfs and ele buffs, so this thread is not really a surprise.

The current meta build for the Mesmer is overpowered. Outside of the most extreme mesmer fans, who are willing to defend their class no matter what the situation, no one argues against that. Likewise, the best ele builds are also way to strong.

If you have seen me suggest ele’s buffs, chances are, you have seen me suggest changes to underpowered builds, skills or traitlines. Most of those buffs (although surely with a few exceptions aside) wouldn’t make the current eles stronger, but open up the possibility for new builds.

I’m sure that there exist mesmer’s builds, skillsets and utility that are also underpowered. Afterall, you don’t see scepter mesmers being popular in pvp, do you? Because all professions in this game have underpowered builds, regardless if they also have overpowered builds or not.

Mesmers have THE WORST Mobility in the game… Portal helps counter that sometimes because its designed to TELEPORT them. We can’t control death… Our DPS is a joke compared to thieves and warriors.

Keep in mind that portal isn’t about giving mobility to the mesmer, but to the entire party. There’s a difference here. From what I’ve played of the mesmer, I agree they have weaker mobility overall compared to most other classes, but portal is more than a self-mobility skill, it’s one of the most important pvp mechanics in this game.

Finally, mind wrack burst builds are extremely strong, both in damage, in being aoe, and for being instant-speed. And with clones and some stealth/ teleport giving you enough defense to use berserker amulet and kill easily before being killed, and with twice the dodging thanks to vigor per critical, and you have a very solid burst build that melee have a really hard time to counter because they can’t see when all illusions are running towards them. It’s my favourite Mesmer build to use in pvp.

We have a TON of bugs that make our class weak in comparison to others and only a few skills and traits that really shine and we will be up in arms

This applies to every single profession in GW2. It’s not a sole problem with the Mesmers, but a serious issue with the overall game.

Every class needs to bring something different, powerful, useful, and amazing to the group.

Yes, but there’s a difference between (amazing) class mechanics or class skills, and with core gameplay mechanics.

You don’t see only a single profession being able to heal. You don’t see only a single profession being able to use aoe attacks. Nor only a single profession having the increased running speed skills. My point is that the mechanics behind Portal are waaay to important to pvp’s sucess, which makes portal more than “only a mesmer skill”, but actually a huge, important pvp mechanic only available to a single class.

This is like giving the extremely important burst-healing mechanic to a single class (the Monk). It leads to the same kind of problem that the devs have worked hard to prevent in this game: the existence of a class that has exclusive mechanics for itself that are so important to a format, that any other party setup can’t compete in that format if not including the format-defining mechanic.

Guardians aren’t the only profession that can heal or ressurect for the same reason. Rangers and thieves aren’t the only profession that can run faster. Because all those mechanics are way too important to the game as a whole, to be stuck in a single profession.

That’s the difference between portal, and any only class-exclusive mechanic, be it either from the mesmer or from any other class. And even if the portal was an utility from another class, I would suggest the same. So this topic is not even an anti-mesmer topic.

It’s just that I think that the mechanic of a single utility, from a single class – which happens to be the mesmer, is way too broad to only exist in that single class.

Unfortunately, some die-hard mesmer fans in this thread aren’t willing to even listen, and are judging the entire topic because of the topic title.

This is what I’ve been saying all along in all the “portal is OP” topics: Share the skill on more then the Mesmer. Players aren’t really mad about the skill, but the exclusiveness of it. I would love to see the Engineer have some kind of personal catapult turret, that works like a portal like Jump Shot. Then just watch players fly all over the place!

And then what the mesmer does have left will be useless for PvP our burst is outmatched by a warriors and thieves… Ele’s have the BEST GROUP HEALING power in the game… Necros have better survivability as far as the scholar professions go. What do we have that is useful in PvP portal and time warp. They are UNIQUE to our class and should stay as such. A thieves group utility such as shadow refuge has just as much of an impact as portal. Our 2 mass invisibility skills don’t even TOUCH how long shadow refuge makes players invisible… And once again the Portal is a bright glowing circle on the ground. Also if PvP is being played properly and people are thinking… They won’t have their entire team sitting on one point… SO portal will not be useful to the whole team just the one MAYBE 2 people that are with the mesmer using the portal…

DiogoSilva.7089:

Likewise, the best only ele builds are is also way too strong

Fixed that for you.

The D/D Ele build is not OP for the simple reason it is hard countered by anything ranged that can reliably apply any/all of immobilise/cripple/chill/poison/knockback/knockdown.

100% agree that there is a critical lack of balance in Ele utlities: cantrips >>> rest >>> conjures. Not sure who thought giving up access to 20 skills to gain access to 5 mediocre skills whilst giving up a utility slot was a good idea but they were wrong.

jportell.2197:

And then what the mesmer does have left will be useless for PvP our burst is outmatched by a warriors and thieves… Ele’s have the BEST GROUP HEALING power in the game… Necros have better survivability as far as the scholar professions go. What do we have that is useful in PvP portal and time warp. They are UNIQUE to our class and should stay as such. A thieves group utility such as shadow refuge has just as much of an impact as portal. Our 2 mass invisibility skills don’t even TOUCH how long shadow refuge makes players invisible… And once again the Portal is a bright glowing circle on the ground. Also if PvP is being played properly and people are thinking… They won’t have their entire team sitting on one point… SO portal will not be useful to the whole team just the one MAYBE 2 people that are with the mesmer using the portal…

You’re completely missing the point. Ele’s may have the best group healing in the game, but other professions have some sort of group healing ability, don’t they? Thieves have the best mass stealth in the game (which they should, ya know, that’s kind of their thing), but you as a mesmer have access to it, and I as an engineer have access to it (RNG depending) as well. You can’t bring up scholar class survivability without bringing up that Ele’s are good at that as well, it’s not just necros. What other class has a portal like ability? None, which is what the problem is. If you think that making other professions have access to that type of ability will leave the mesmer “useless for PvP” then I’m sorry, you’re doing it wrong.

jportell.2197:

And then what the mesmer does have left will be useless for PvP our burst is outmatched by a warriors and thieves… Ele’s have the BEST GROUP HEALING power in the game… Necros have better survivability as far as the scholar professions go. What do we have that is useful in PvP portal and time warp. They are UNIQUE to our class and should stay as such. A thieves group utility such as shadow refuge has just as much of an impact as portal. Our 2 mass invisibility skills don’t even TOUCH how long shadow refuge makes players invisible… And once again the Portal is a bright glowing circle on the ground. Also if PvP is being played properly and people are thinking… They won’t have their entire team sitting on one point… SO portal will not be useful to the whole team just the one MAYBE 2 people that are with the mesmer using the portal…

Mesmers have pretty much the best boon removal in the game as well as great CCs. Portal isn’t the only thing making a mesmer viable.

Add portal for engineer. Make this class useful, last time I’ve spotted engi on tPvP was…errr….start of the game? They’re jack of all trades and don’t bring anything special for group. Let them use portals, let us see any option from mesmer. No other prof, just mesmer and engi

If the Mesmer would become useless by sharing one mechanic of a single utility, which I think they would not, that would be a balance issue. In this topic, I’m not talking about balancing directly, but about a design issue. By design, I think that giving portal only to mesmers would be like giving a rez utility only to guardians, a running signet only to rangers or a stun-breaker only to another single class. The nature of pvp requests those mechanics, and if only a single class has it, then that class becomes core.

Keep in mind that I’m not asking for a portal nerf here. The meta mesmer builds are currently very strong for all they bring, and even with this change, they could still be the class a team would want to bring for the portal mechanic (or even without it). It just happens that there would be more options – at least, that’s what the devs have been trying hard for.

In a way, even the mesmer fans could win with this, because they would no longer be forced to bring a specific utility, should one of their party members bring something similar to portal. This would create situations where the mesmer could bring extra clone fodder utilities for stronger bursts, or null field, or their instant vengueance rez, or whatever they would need that wasn’t in the remaining two utilities already (because you can only have 2 of those there). It would give more build freedom to mesmers. Of course, balancing other utilities to make them stronger would also open the door for new builds, but portalis so important to pvp, that any mesmer ill probably be stuck to it + only 2 other utilities of choice.

Removing/sharing key features of one class is not balance.

Before we want to axe stuff that works how about we buff the useless traits+utilities that exist, you know, 95% of the other skills?

What’s with this logic of ‘’this is something everyone uses, we should axe it’’

‘’Guardian bunker too much of a must, nerf them’’
‘’Necro rez sig too strong, makes everyone take it, nerf it’’
‘’Mesmer time warp and portal too strong, nerf them’’
‘’Thief burst too strong, nerf it’’
‘’Ele 2gud, nerf them’’

Every single balance thread is focused on silly stuff like this when there are traits like ‘’damage foe when you interrupt them’’, with the damage being a whooping 300 dmg at lvl 80 regardless of your weapon.

Oni.5429:

Removing/sharing key features of one class is not balance.

Before we want to axe stuff that works how about we buff the useless traits+utilities that exist, you know, 95% of the other skills?

What’s with this logic of ‘’this is something everyone uses, we should axe it’’

‘’Guardian bunker too much of a must, nerf them’’
‘’Necro rez sig too strong, makes everyone take it, nerf it’’
‘’Mesmer time warp and portal too strong, nerf them’’
‘’Thief burst too strong, nerf it’’
‘’Ele 2gud, nerf them’’

Every single balance thread is focused on silly stuff like this when there are traits like ‘’damage foe when you interrupt them’’, with the damage being a whooping 300 dmg at lvl 80 regardless of your weapon.

You have completely missed the point of this topic. I’m not talking about balance, I’m talking about design. I’m not even suggesting any nerf here.

Of the examples you mentioned, even though a guardian bunker is the best bunker, other professions can bunk as well. Even though the thief has the best burst, other professions can burst as well. Even though necro has a good rez signet, other profesions have rez skills as well. But no one, except the mesmer, can play the map warping role.

This is comparable to the heal/ tank roles in other games, or the Monk class in GW1. It’s not about balance, it’s about a design issue that makes everyone pick a specific profession, not because it’s mathematically strong, but because it’s mechanically needed.

When people are asking for a nerf to portal, not because it’s too strong, but because pvp needs that mechanic and only a mesmer has it, then the solution should be to spread that mechanic to other classes, not to nerf it, IMO.

Hmmm… You know what I may be stubborn and hard headed and have a severe don’t touch my class mentality…. But I rescind previous statements… If it does happen I just hope that mesmer portals stay the strongest kind of how every other class has some viable mechanic that they are strongest at but other classes can do to a certain degree…. However one thing you missed mesmers only have group healing if they trait for it other than that no skills group heal directly…

Alternative portal-like skills could work differently. For example, profession A could have a portal skill that only warps the own caster back, and not the entire party; profession B could have a portal-like skill that is unpredictable and chaotic unlike the Mesmer’s; and profession C could have a weaker portal-like skill with added mess/ conditions/ pets like the examples I created in the starting post. This would keep Mesmer’s portal as the simpler but straight-to-the-point effective version of the mechanic, which is by itelf an advantage.

If this were to ever take effect I would hope Anet buffs the portal nerfs that it has done to the mesmer back up to what they were if not a little better. However realistically speaking adding a portal specific mechanic to EVERY class in the game would take a LONG time and considering that there are still several bugs in traits weap skills and slot skills for every profession I do not see this being a reality any time soon if ever…

Maybe not even for “every class”, but to several of them, especially some of the most underused. Like the Engineer and Necro.

An “Underworld” portals for necros that would only warp them back and not the entire party (maybe excluding other necros), would give them interesting mobility and interesting bunker options that a guardian wouldn’t have, but it would not compete with Mesmer’s because it would not work with allies.

A “portal tool” or even a “teleport kit” for engineers could be randomized, create an unpredictable mess in the battlefield, making it inferior to Mesmer’s at its main goal, but it would offer more secondary options through the kit or toolbelt skills, making it more versatile in secondary situations.

EDIT: I don’t think it would be that hard to do, because the mechanic is already coded, and they would just have to make some changes to the code to adapt it to other professions. However, unless they would remove 1 utility from those classes, we probably would have to wait until an expansion for them to add new skills.

Maybe… But TBH I hope Anet fixes the bugs and weaknesses for all classes before trying to add this as it will undoubtedly have bugs that come with it… Not disagreeing with that it would be interesting to see done but as far as order of importance I don’t think it should be Anets top priority to add skills when they still haven’t fixed issues with other things you know what I mean?

Yes, but even if the devs balanced the game in such a way that a Mesmer and other professions could have 5-6 different meta builds instead of just 1, wouldn’t all of those mesmer builds still need to take Portal anyway because no one else could? The only other solution I could see to prevent that, is to keep nerfing and nerfing Portal, until it hardly became relevant, but then pvp tactics would suffer from this, because Portal does add some extra tactical options as it is. And, of course, mesmer fans wouldn’t surely like it.

Thief has shadow trap which can teleport you at 10k range, same as portal.

A combination of rtl+blink is just about as far as portal

The mechanic of defending a close point with high mobility is something available for everyone, mesmer just has the best one.

Diogo. I am going to have to go with Oni on this one there… Mesmer may have the best one but I believe thieves shadow trap has the furthest as it can be placed out of Radar… And RTL is kinda just ridic… I can see that your thinking outside the box from a design stand point… But in implementation a lot of other classes have something that is close to it….

Well, Portal is not only the best for the own caster, it also works with allies, and that’s what makes it distinct from the other skills, even strategically. (RTL and blink can’t make 2-3 players suddenly zerg a point). Because of this, I do think the mechanic could be shared to a few professions, but maybe not for elementalists, thiefs and the like. For some of the least popular, it could work very well, especially the Engineer and the Necromancer.

An engineer portal gun would be cool… But I want to see ANet fix all other bugs/traits/ incorrect things that are staring us in the face before this happens…. Not fully disagreeing with you Diogo just on the point that other stuff is higher priority.

I feel like Elementalists shouldn’t be the only class that has attunement. If you look at the traits, technically all classes are attuned to something in particular.

I feel like Rangers shouldn’t be the only classes with pets. Asurans build golems a lot so why can’t Asurans also get pets? Charr have Warbands, can’t you have them follow you like pets? Etc…

I feel like Warriors shouldn’t be the only class with a huge variety of weapon selection. All classes are “masters” and therefore should be able to improvise skills onto any weapon.

Engineers shouldn’t be the only class that can get 2 utility skills for every utility equipped. Skills have more than one use, therefore skills should utilize them.

Guardians shouldn’t be the only class that has innate party skills, all the classes are meant to synergize (see: storyline) and it doesn’t feel like that if only one class has hard party skills.

I think Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can have mana with no cooldowns. I think all classes shouldn’t have cooldowns on their weapon skills and just use mana… I mean Initiative… of course… cough

Necromancers shouldn’t be the only class that can… I have no idea anymore, but I think you get my point.

I really beleive the mesmer players need to try another class ..pls do it for me!
I recommend warrior.Try that 100 blades warrior thats been used even in paids.
Then see how worthless and non game changing you are,how your damage increase doesnt justify the loss of utility..Dazes???No sir
Aoe quickness that shifts the battle?No sir
Escapes,boon removal,PORTAL?No sir..
Aoe vengeance mode for your friends?hell no ..
Get your feet on the earth and finally realise that mesmer utility is TOO MUCH..
On the other hand you might feel relief from not having too chose from a pool of plenty good utilities that all work and are viable..that must be such a pain when building a mesmer…

kostbabis.8791:

I really beleive the mesmer players need to try another class ..pls do it for me!
I recommend warrior.Try that 100 blades warrior thats been used even in paids.
Then see how worthless and non game changing you are,how your damage increase doesnt justify the loss of utility..Dazes???No sir
Aoe quickness that shifts the battle?No sir
Escapes,boon removal,PORTAL?No sir..
Aoe vengeance mode for your friends?hell no ..
Get your feet on the earth and finally realise that mesmer utility is TOO MUCH..
On the other hand you might feel relief from not having too chose from a pool of plenty good utilities that all work and are viable..that must be such a pain when building a mesmer…

Plenty of good utilities that all work and are viable? AHHHH no… The only truly group friendly utilites a mesmer has are time warp portal and null field…. Our burst is still a joke compared to warriors and thieves… This discussion has been one of intellectual and idea throwing the last thing we need is trolling… Please say something constructive… Or get the hell out.

@ Esplen,

“I feel like” only a single class should have AoE mechanics, only a single class should be able to heal, only a single class should be able to rez, only a single class should be able to run faster. /notserious

See the difference? Attunements or initiative are not core mechanics for the game, even though they are core mechanics for their respective professions. They are mechanics that give flavor to each class, much like Shatters, Clones, Phantasms, etc.

We have to make a distinction between specialized mechanics like attunements or initiative, with universal mechanics like boons, aoe, healing, or critical hits.

Portal is revealing itself to be a far more universal mechanic than what it seems at first glance. That’s because pvp demands it, just like GW1’s pvp demands a monk in every party, just like a nomal MMO demands a tank/ healer in every party.

Attunements or initiative change the way you use the more universal mechanics. Blink, Steal and Lightning Flash are different ways to use the teleport mechanic. Mist Form and Lich are different ways to use the transform mechanic. Likewise, more professions could have several unique ways to use the map-warping mechanic, besides that thieves’ trap. It’s way too important, and mostly only Mesmers make use of it. That’s like having a single profession for healing or for aoe: any format that requests those wil demand those professions in every.single.party.

Esplen.3940:

I feel like Elementalists shouldn’t be the only class that has attunement. If you look at the traits, technically all classes are attuned to something in particular.

I feel like Rangers shouldn’t be the only classes with pets. Asurans build golems a lot so why can’t Asurans also get pets? Charr have Warbands, can’t you have them follow you like pets? Etc…

I feel like Warriors shouldn’t be the only class with a huge variety of weapon selection. All classes are “masters” and therefore should be able to improvise skills onto any weapon.

Engineers shouldn’t be the only class that can get 2 utility skills for every utility equipped. Skills have more than one use, therefore skills should utilize them.

Guardians shouldn’t be the only class that has innate party skills, all the classes are meant to synergize (see: storyline) and it doesn’t feel like that if only one class has hard party skills.

I think Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can have mana with no cooldowns. I think all classes shouldn’t have cooldowns on their weapon skills and just use mana… I mean Initiative… of course… cough

Necromancers shouldn’t be the only class that can… I have no idea anymore, but I think you get my point.

I get your point and completely agree with it. Thanks for sharing.

DiogoSilva.7089:

@ Esplen,

“I feel like” only a single class should have AoE mechanics, only a single class should be able to heal, only a single class should be able to rez, only a single class should be able to run faster. /notserious

See the difference? Attunements or initiative are not core mechanics for the game, even though they are core mechanics for their respective professions. They are mechanics that give flavor to each class, much like Shatters, Clones, Phantasms, etc.

We have to make a distinction between specialized mechanics like attunements or initiative, with universal mechanics like boons, aoe, healing, or critical hits.

Portal is revealing itself to be a far more universal mechanic than what it seems at first glance. That’s because pvp demands it, just like GW1’s pvp demands a monk in every party, just like a nomal MMO demands a tank/ healer in every party.

Attunements or initiative change the way you use the more universal mechanics. Blink, Steal and Lightning Flash are different ways to use the teleport mechanic. Mist Form and Lich are different ways to use the transform mechanic. Likewise, more professions could have several unique ways to use the map-warping mechanic, besides that thieves’ trap. It’s way too important, and mostly only Mesmers make use of it. That’s like having a single profession for healing or for aoe: any format that requests those wil demand those professions in every.single.party.

Beat me to the punch. Stupid argument countered by a well thought out response. Well done, sir.

Seether.7285:

jportell.2197:

And then what the mesmer does have left will be useless for PvP our burst is outmatched by a warriors and thieves… Ele’s have the BEST GROUP HEALING power in the game… Necros have better survivability as far as the scholar professions go. What do we have that is useful in PvP portal and time warp. They are UNIQUE to our class and should stay as such. A thieves group utility such as shadow refuge has just as much of an impact as portal. Our 2 mass invisibility skills don’t even TOUCH how long shadow refuge makes players invisible… And once again the Portal is a bright glowing circle on the ground. Also if PvP is being played properly and people are thinking… They won’t have their entire team sitting on one point… SO portal will not be useful to the whole team just the one MAYBE 2 people that are with the mesmer using the portal…

Mesmers have pretty much the best boon removal in the game as well as great CCs. Portal isn’t the only thing making a mesmer viable.

All of which people have also requested to nerf.

Which will continue to hurt mesmers viability… I have been playing mesmer since I got this game and have tried several other classes alot of them just feel like they are meant to stand there and beat on enemies with no real strategy… Not mesmer it is a very demanding class to play. The nerf bat needs to stop coming out and people need to start asking for certain things in their classes to be buffed… Or take a look at how they play against mesmers… You know a good idea… Take a friend of yours thats a mesmer to an empty server and duel… Take some tips from them…But for the love of god stop with the begging people… Diogo’s idea of sharing the portal mechanic seems nice but it won’t happen anytime soon because of how slow ANet has been to fix other things… And I highly doubt that “map warping” as it has been coined here will be shared. So instead you people will continually beg for it to be nerfed… Mesmers boon stripping doesnt match that of a necro. Engi’s and warriors have even better crowd control and so on… For the love of god just stop with it.

Esplen.3940:

I feel like Elementalists shouldn’t be the only class that has attunement. If you look at the traits, technically all classes are attuned to something in particular.

I feel like Rangers shouldn’t be the only classes with pets. Asurans build golems a lot so why can’t Asurans also get pets? Charr have Warbands, can’t you have them follow you like pets? Etc…

I feel like Warriors shouldn’t be the only class with a huge variety of weapon selection. All classes are “masters” and therefore should be able to improvise skills onto any weapon.

Engineers shouldn’t be the only class that can get 2 utility skills for every utility equipped. Skills have more than one use, therefore skills should utilize them.

Guardians shouldn’t be the only class that has innate party skills, all the classes are meant to synergize (see: storyline) and it doesn’t feel like that if only one class has hard party skills.

I think Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can have mana with no cooldowns. I think all classes shouldn’t have cooldowns on their weapon skills and just use mana… I mean Initiative… of course… cough

Necromancers shouldn’t be the only class that can… I have no idea anymore, but I think you get my point.

Wow, you nailed exactly what I was going to say. I think Necromancers shouldn’t be the only one with perminant undead minions, I think Mesmer’s Phantasms should also actas minions and have the same health as well, makes it unfair becaue the phantasma die to easily. :C QQ I think Ele’s having a mist form is unfair, I want other classes to also have a mist form, maybe Mesmer’s can have Phantasm form, and Necro’s can have ghastly mist form. QQ Honestly, every class has something that makes them unique, please I hope Anet doesn’t chage that.

It seems like the people saying that mesmer’s portal should remain unique to the class is outnumbering the share this mechanic… There are ALOT of professions that have unique aspects to them that can or can not be game changing depending on how the PLAYERS implement them. Portal can have a lot of unique aspects and change the tide of a battle but so can supply crate…shadow refuge… battle standard… and things from other classes…

^ The whole gist of my “troll” post.

Every class has it’s own unique feel. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean everyone should get it. If everyone got portals, you’d find something else to complain about.

Great minds think alike and we have all said it in other places and we aren’t throwing out ideas that are nearly unimplementable because meta has nothing to do with character design from a dev standpoint… The best thing that devs could to do ease the “we hate portal crowd” is bigger maps IMO. The size of the PvP maps just isnt very big… And if the made the maps bigger then it would limit portal because it only has radar range.

Mesmer would probably still be used, even if 1-2 other classes had sth. like a Portal, but I’m sure that we’ll see at least 1 Mesmer in almost every Team-comp, if he’s the only class that has sth. like a Portal.

I don’t like being forced to have a certain Class in a Team, because that 1 Utility-Skill is just way too good to not have in your Team.

Some of the people that have posted since my last post have completely ignored my counter-argument.

Again: there’s a difference between universal, demanded mechanics – which should NOT be stuck to a single class unless we want to see that class forced into every team, and GW2’s game design is trying hard to prevent that; with secondary mechanics that utilize the more universal mechanics in a profession-distinct way.

Only elementalists have Mist Form, but a lot of professions have transformation mechanics. Only thieves have a unique skill cost with initiative, but all classes have skills with a cost. Mist Form, Initiative, etc, take on primary mechanics, and add an unique twist to it. Portal, too, is a twist on a very important mechanic (map warping, especially party-wide maping), it just happens that this key pvp mechanic is almost completely not used for the other classes.

Giving the portal mechanics to a few other professions does not necessarily mean that mesmer’s portal will be any less unique flavor-wise. After all, if Lich and Mist Form are drastically different skills based on the same mechanics, what makes some of you so sure that another skill using the portal mechanic would take the uniqueness away from portal?

The devs have explicitely said that classes should have unique, distinct ways to perform universal roles. For now, the party warping role is only available to Mesmers. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if it was a secondary mechanic like attunements, or lich form. But alas, it’s more than that.

dont even try man..they are die hard mesmer fans and they cant get into their head the difference.Portal is not the unique mechanic of mesmer.Clones and the shatter effects are!!
Also lol at the guys agreeing with that stupid comment that compared attunement swapping and deathshroud with portal..Isnt the difference a bit..obvious?

Warriors should be able to carry two teammates on their back and then do a leap the distance of half the map.

There, now Warriors have portal. Or something.

“Mesmers also have access to the most powerful transportation and point control abilities in the game. They are able to teleport themselves and others, in addition to two forms of mass-target invisibility.”-Game strategy guide…. It seems that Anet doesn’t classify this as a Map Warping ability but the most powerful transportation ability in the game…. So it seems that in the eyes of the people that made the game it is something that they intended to be unique to mesmers… I have not argued that it would be cool to see different aspects that other classes can put on portal but I still do not like the idea of it simply because it is something that mesmer’s don’t see as a UNIVERSAL mechanic. This is important to us because while all these other classes get portal we still have no movement buff and our stealth abilities are buggy at best and flat out don’t work at their worst… Shattering is not a group mechanic… although it is unique to the mesmer (partially so cuz necros can blow up their minions). And I have seen teams that are successful without mesmers. Also in relation to what mesmers don’t have I was messing around on my engineer yesterday and unlocked a trait that gives 100% movement buff…. speed boon for 5 seconds when swapping kits the effect can not trigger more than every 5 seconds… Its like… People just don’t get what all the mesmer is lacking and still want to push the class even more down by taking a unique class mechanic (whether people feel it is demanded or not is perspective) and start spreading it around… If Anet did make this happen I just hope that they fix everything that is wrong with all classes first…

jportell.2197:

“Mesmers also have access to the most powerful transportation and point control abilities in the game. They are able to teleport themselves and others, in addition to two forms of mass-target invisibility.”-Game strategy guide…. It seems that Anet doesn’t classify this as a Map Warping ability but the most powerful transportation ability in the game…. So it seems that in the eyes of the people that made the game it is something that they intended to be unique to mesmers… I have not argued that it would be cool to see different aspects that other classes can put on portal but I still do not like the idea of it simply because it is something that mesmer’s don’t see as a UNIVERSAL mechanic. This is important to us because while all these other classes get portal we still have no movement buff and our stealth abilities are buggy at best and flat out don’t work at their worst… Shattering is not a group mechanic… although it is unique to the mesmer (partially so cuz necros can blow up their minions). And I have seen teams that are successful without mesmers. Also in relation to what mesmers don’t have I was messing around on my engineer yesterday and unlocked a trait that gives 100% movement buff…. speed boon for 5 seconds when swapping kits the effect can not trigger more than every 5 seconds… Its like… People just don’t get what all the mesmer is lacking and still want to push the class even more down by taking a unique class mechanic (whether people feel it is demanded or not is perspective) and start spreading it around… If Anet did make this happen I just hope that they fix everything that is wrong with all classes first…

Dedicated swiftness is just about the only problems that a mesmer has. A quick recap of your post history shows that as far as mes is concerned, any nerfs/changes that may make a mes not as valuable are ones that you complain and rage about. Between Null Field and Phantasmal Disenchanter, you have some of the most amazing, if not THE most amazing boon/condition removal in the game. What you keep ignoring, because you want to believe that mesmers are in this god awful state when they’re anything but, is that the portal has become a borderline necessity for tPvP. Yes, it is possible to roll without a mesmer and win, but you are handicapping yourself by doing that, there’s no two ways around it. When something becomes part of the core of an entire game type it becomes a problem to anyone that doesn’t have access to it, which in this case, is everyone besides mesmers. And I don’t know what the point of bringing up that Engi trait was, because if you think you have it bad on your mes, go play a few tournament games on your Engi and tell me what you think.

Done and had fun. Grenade kit is still good… And in any case I have said several times that before everyone gets so up in arms about portal not being available to every class there are still bugs in every class that need changed and addressed before adding the portal mechanic to it. And phantasmal disenchanter IS A JOKE… It never ever works. And lets not for get that phantasms now have a lag before their first attack because ANet bent over and let the qqer’s tell them that phantasms first attack happens to fast. Even though all phantasm summoning skills have some form of OBVIOUS cast animation. Yeah don’t get me started on how not viable Phantasm disenchanter is. We still can’t deal with boons as well as necros… The base of my argument stays that before the portal mechanic gets shared or spread around or some BS that we should let Anet fix all the bugs and problems with ALLL classes before adding another skill to them that will undoubtedly come with more bugs…. Please tell me you get my point there.