Guild Wars 2

Map.

The maps are hideously tiny with virtually no line of sight. Its incredibly easy to become the center of focus fire for rofl ranged cc/immobilize/chill/cripple spam to lock you down from every direction. People just need look at you and roll their knuckles across the keyboard, never having to position themselves.

The guy i just beat down and stomped comes back 20 seconds later, running across the diagonal of the map with just normal running speed whilst i am still taking on another foe.

Floating Healthbars

The same problem in WoW where players just have to look for misfortunate players to unload their execution spells on. Showing everyones hp is a major driving force for the zerging problem, where everyone bypasses the proper nodes they need to assault/defend just to chase someone who is at low health whos 5 points to the enemy team isnt worth the points lost for not grabbing nodes.

It is incredibly lame for the travelling person being ganked and for the competent player looking to win matches.

Gimmicky kitten from Classes

I see very few people playing builds/playstyles that dont revolve around an obnoxious/unavoidable mechanic.

Examples:

Necromancers who build up toughness/vit to run up to nodes, just to turn on plague form and button mash the blind, contesting it for 30 seconds, and longer since 2900 armor and 30k health doesnt take down itself.

Rangers who hide next to water or water based nodes/combat just to abuse the underwater pet heal, or only choose to fight with another person so that they can be covered in the land downed state while their pet rofl heals them back up. Or sword/dagger/shortbow rangers relying on nearly endless cycles of dodging hoping their pet can take down your hp as you frantically attempt to hit them in the middle of their dodges.

Mesmers who abuse the Sword #2 whenever they mess up a keystroke or blink into a wall. Killshot damage in 2 seconds while invincible, 25% uptime invulnerability. Also, most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

Thieves who stack 6 stealths and shortbow warp, many of which on low cd’s to repeatedly dissapear, easily compensating for lack of good judgement for when to flee or avoid combat for a duration. Also, thieves who stack burst for steal/backstab incrediburst, and heartseeker spam to ensure their hits never miss and <50% targets go down in a flash.

Elementalists who can use various mist forms/movement abilities to easily mitigate large portions of damage and flee from any engagement. Ive seen an elementalist on Battle of Khylo go from one of the corner nodes to the base path of Clocktower in 4 seconds, all the while invincible, escaping 6 teammates. Of course, water-healing builds with incredible lame healing persecond, combined with movement abilities to stay untouched and waste your time.

I rarely get to enjoy fighting builds/players that outplay me from proper use of evading/cc/healing, or fighting scenarios where the opposing player/players escapes being killed for points by these ludicrous methods.

I think people who play pvp just to abuse these mechanics are lame and wasting everyone’s time, and perhaps a large chunk of the reason S PvP has been so unpopular since 3 months after release and onward.

I was reading your post and all of what you described sounded like a lot of fun to me and made me want to sign out of the forums and go play!!

AlfredKlios.9657:

I think people who play pvp just to abuse these mechanics are lame and wasting everyone’s time, and perhaps a large chunk of the reason S PvP has been so unpopular since 3 months after release and onward.

People abuse these mechanics because the game is way too forgiving and allow them to. Got caugth in a bad position or didn’t dodge on time? Doesn’t matter, since you have 50 out of the jail cards. Anyway, I think the root of the problem is deeper, it’s the old Melee x Ranged issue. No wonder playing a warrior is a hard time when everyone can kite you and even if you manage to succesfully reach your enemy, they can easily disengage/get away from you, while still dishing some nasty damage.

And since you mentioned maps, why is the terrain blocking/miss “bug” not fixed yet? Geez, 6 months suffering from that kitten.

What! This game sounds awesome. Everyone has so many chances to stay in combat the fight will just go on until someone gets outsmarted! Why am I not playing this? It’s like intense chess!

Eurantien.4632:

What! This game sounds awesome. Everyone has so many chances to stay in combat the fight will just go on until someone gets outsmarted! Why am I not playing this? It’s like intense chess!

GW1 could maybe be compared to intense chess. Believe me, not GW2. Chess has no “okitten” buttons, no easy escapes / temporary invulnerabilities. In chess, if you make a mistake, you deal with the consequences. If this was always the case in GW2 too, I would instantly reinstall.

L2C

Learn to cope.

All joking aside, I agree that the game is far too forgiving with cheese maneuvers. This is probably the result balancing around checks and counters as opposed to deep and skillful execution.

Just a quick reply here.

While I do agree with most of your other points, the complaints about classes just isn’t something I can take your side on. Battles, like sPVP are meant to be won. Balance issues aside, it’s immature to argue that you would’ve won if someone just didn’t use X skill, or X tactic. They exist for a reason, which is to help that person or their group win.

Next thing I know you’ll also start complaining about bunker guardians that are near-impossible to kill solo. You might as well say that you would’ve won if they just laid there taking your hits, without trying to escape or use status effects. Come to think of it, that’s what your post pretty much sounds like. Makes me think your idea of a good fight are two people just trading blows, face-to-face. It’s fair alright, but painfully boring, and horribly lacking in any strategy.

I can imagine you running a warrior casting Hundred Blades, then a thief suddenly blinds you. You then curse saying that HB would’ve killed him, if he just didn’t Blind you. When a ranger stacks bleeds, and you die before you get to him, I can imagine you complaining that he would’ve died if he just didn’t use that combo, and if he wasn’t so far away.

In both cases, you’re right that you would’ve won. They would have been terribly stupid players though. With all your talk of wanting to get outplayed with proper use of CC/healing/evades, people are already doing that. You just don’t think it’s fair, because you think it isn’t.

Check this page for the meaning of the word ‘scrub.’ You’ll see what I mean.

You missed out the cheesy guardian, warrior, and engi builds!

Guardians with endless stability and knockdowns and aoe pulls into holy symbols of fiery of death.

Warriors with ridiculously low CD bulls rush into hundred blades of whirling instant death.

Engineers with a thousand ways to escape, reflect, knockdown, and pull you into an a 100 nades insta gib.

Jeez I hate how people optimize their builds and use them intelligently!

Thanks for describing what each class can do.

Individually they can sound op, but if all of them are op, then we achieve balance!

I see you don’t complain about warriors OR guardians… wonder why?

So to sum it all up. Make melee stronger, and make range useless. After you fix that light armors have no reason to be in pvp because I am heavy. I pick warrior to go toe to toe and ranged people are too cheap. It’s ok for ranged to have ranged weapons, but eliminate any chance they have if I get in close. No running away….nothing. I don’t want them to do anything but fight me as I slaughter them and laugh, “You are too weak”. L2P noob. I want to prove my sword is stronger then your bow/magic/pistols/etc.

When that happens in a game. Expect it not to sell, or a very very very small community. Yes balance the game, but think about what you are asking for. Just like in real life don’t try to rationalize anything when you mad. Calm down, think about it, then discuss. Because ultimately your decisions can kill a class(es) that someone likes to play.

I dont complain about warriors or guardians, because they cant use gimmicky kitten to roflescape or stay alive forever.

Guardians have bunker. Ive been able to crack them down solo, but unlike plague form stopping 5 or 6 people indefinitely, stripa guardians stability, and you lock him down for 2 or 3 seconds and he cracks.

Warriors with their bulls charge ability? 1 STUN BREAKER, done. i cant beleive people even try to bring warriors into light.

My question, why isnt anyone mentioning how shorthanded engineers are? They bunker WORSE than warriors, and have no movement ability at all.

This proves my point. Heavy’s should only be viable in pvp. How is that fair?

Once again, OP seems to support only the classes he thinks aren’t gimmicky. Never mind the fact that a lot of the classes with these gimmicks die very quickly if they didn’t play that way. If your idea of a good fight is one on one, without any tricks, escapes, debuffs, and whatnot, then you’re a horrible player with a bad idea of how a game should be.

On the topic of warriors, they are hands down the WORST class at sPVP. Too predictable and easy to avoid. Avoid the burst, and they’re a free kill right after.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

The hell are you talking about?

alfred, most of the things you are complaining about are not a problem.

it sounds like you don’t want to play a game with active defenses as a cornerstone of gameplay.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Warriors with their bulls charge ability? 1 STUN BREAKER, done. i cant beleive people even try to bring warriors into light.

My question, why isnt anyone mentioning how shorthanded engineers are? They bunker WORSE than warriors, and have no movement ability at all.

1) bullrush CD is low and warriors have other abilities to hold down the enemy. A good warrior would try and bait the stun breaker before using a quickness HB. A good warrior is in fact quite scarey.

2) Engis are very, very strong. To me they are one of the hardest classes to kill if played/built right.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Map.

The maps are hideously tiny with virtually no line of sight. Its incredibly easy to become the center of focus fire for rofl ranged cc/immobilize/chill/cripple spam to lock you down from every direction. People just need look at you and roll their knuckles across the keyboard, never having to position themselves.

The guy i just beat down and stomped comes back 20 seconds later, running across the diagonal of the map with just normal running speed whilst i am still taking on another foe.

Floating Healthbars

The same problem in WoW where players just have to look for misfortunate players to unload their execution spells on. Showing everyones hp is a major driving force for the zerging problem, where everyone bypasses the proper nodes they need to assault/defend just to chase someone who is at low health whos 5 points to the enemy team isnt worth the points lost for not grabbing nodes.

It is incredibly lame for the travelling person being ganked and for the competent player looking to win matches.

Gimmicky kitten from Classes

I see very few people playing builds/playstyles that dont revolve around an obnoxious/unavoidable mechanic.

Examples:

Necromancers who build up toughness/vit to run up to nodes, just to turn on plague form and button mash the blind, contesting it for 30 seconds, and longer since 2900 armor and 30k health doesnt take down itself.

Rangers who hide next to water or water based nodes/combat just to abuse the underwater pet heal, or only choose to fight with another person so that they can be covered in the land downed state while their pet rofl heals them back up. Or sword/dagger/shortbow rangers relying on nearly endless cycles of dodging hoping their pet can take down your hp as you frantically attempt to hit them in the middle of their dodges.

Mesmers who abuse the Sword #2 whenever they mess up a keystroke or blink into a wall. Killshot damage in 2 seconds while invincible, 25% uptime invulnerability. Also, most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

Thieves who stack 6 stealths and shortbow warp, many of which on low cd’s to repeatedly dissapear, easily compensating for lack of good judgement for when to flee or avoid combat for a duration. Also, thieves who stack burst for steal/backstab incrediburst, and heartseeker spam to ensure their hits never miss and <50% targets go down in a flash.

Elementalists who can use various mist forms/movement abilities to easily mitigate large portions of damage and flee from any engagement. Ive seen an elementalist on Battle of Khylo go from one of the corner nodes to the base path of Clocktower in 4 seconds, all the while invincible, escaping 6 teammates. Of course, water-healing builds with incredible lame healing persecond, combined with movement abilities to stay untouched and waste your time.

I rarely get to enjoy fighting builds/players that outplay me from proper use of evading/cc/healing, or fighting scenarios where the opposing player/players escapes being killed for points by these ludicrous methods.

I think people who play pvp just to abuse these mechanics are lame and wasting everyone’s time, and perhaps a large chunk of the reason S PvP has been so unpopular since 3 months after release and onward.

It takes playing one in order to judge and understand one :p

AlfredKlios.9657:

I dont complain about warriors or guardians, because they cant use gimmicky kitten to roflescape or stay alive forever.

Guardians have bunker. Ive been able to crack them down solo, but unlike plague form stopping 5 or 6 people indefinitely, stripa guardians stability, and you lock him down for 2 or 3 seconds and he cracks.

Warriors with their bulls charge ability? 1 STUN BREAKER, done. i cant beleive people even try to bring warriors into light.

My question, why isnt anyone mentioning how shorthanded engineers are? They bunker WORSE than warriors, and have no movement ability at all.

You have got to be joking! Just cuz you dont land your hits with warrior? xD I mean you have that lame combo that got nerfed on thief really and 2 skills to mitigate one another like the extra dmg and 10 second immune to dmg? SRSLY?! Get out tbh … :-L

Keep in mind the game is new, builds are coming and going. I do feel game it’s not that unbalanced. It’s a matter of position, team based strats; There are classes that beat other classes in 1v1. It’s called Counterclasses.

Every game has that, or at least most of the games I can think of. If a player outplays you, is because you did something wrong, or he did something right.

I as engineer, haven’t found a single moment where I’ve died because of unbalancing. Everytime I died was either because of the situation it self, or because I did something wrong.

Yasha.5963:

AlfredKlios.9657:

Warriors with their bulls charge ability? 1 STUN BREAKER, done. i cant beleive people even try to bring warriors into light.

My question, why isnt anyone mentioning how shorthanded engineers are? They bunker WORSE than warriors, and have no movement ability at all.

1) bullrush CD is low

40 seconds is a low CD?

and warriors have other abilities to hold down the enemy. A good warrior would try and bait the stun breaker before using a quickness HB. A good warrior is in fact quite scarey.

We have a 1 second immobilize per cripple if we take the trait in tactics. How will we bait out a stun breaker exactly? We have two stuns, and shield bash only lasts for 1 second. Never mind the fact that Bulls Charge has a 1 second cast time on it, making it ridiculously easy to dodge.

A good warrior is not scary. Put one cripple on him and use common sense and they die. A good warrior destroys hotjoin matches, that’s it.

I’d take bola over bulls charge, but half the time it just obstructs or hits someone else, and the other half the time since the hitbox is so small it flat out misses the target randomly. Bola is not reliable. I don’t like to roll a dice to see if I’m going to have a chance to win this fight or not.

There’s a reason my best 1v1 match up is against a warrior.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

3-4 stealths? Culling abuse in spvp? High health pool? Endlessly cycles?

Let me ask…have you ever played a mesmer or you just talk bs from stuff you heard around from “A friend of a friend” ? Or maybe just trolling…dunno…but my bs meter is already freakin’ out..

Archaon.6245:

AlfredKlios.9657:

Most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

3-4 stealths? Culling abuse in spvp? High health pool? Endlessly cycles?

Let me ask…have you ever played a mesmer or you just talk bs from stuff you heard around from “A friend of a friend” ? Or maybe just trolling…dunno…but my bs meter is already freakin’ out..

he is actually kidda right for mesmer

A properly traited staff and teleport every 5 seconds

every 9and 1/2 sec iLeap can be used

Swords #2 have very low cd which allow the mesmer to have 1 sec to look at the current situation.

Shatter mesmer can produce unlimited amounts of clones

There are ridiculous amounts of damage migration

Invisibility skills are very effective.

The culling should not be an issue since there isnt 20+ players in a dog pile

You are cycling through all of your skills to be effective.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Map.

The maps are hideously tiny with virtually no line of sight. Its incredibly easy to become the center of focus fire for rofl ranged cc/immobilize/chill/cripple spam to lock you down from every direction. People just need look at you and roll their knuckles across the keyboard, never having to position themselves.

The guy i just beat down and stomped comes back 20 seconds later, running across the diagonal of the map with just normal running speed whilst i am still taking on another foe.

Floating Healthbars

The same problem in WoW where players just have to look for misfortunate players to unload their execution spells on. Showing everyones hp is a major driving force for the zerging problem, where everyone bypasses the proper nodes they need to assault/defend just to chase someone who is at low health whos 5 points to the enemy team isnt worth the points lost for not grabbing nodes.

It is incredibly lame for the travelling person being ganked and for the competent player looking to win matches.

Gimmicky kitten from Classes

I see very few people playing builds/playstyles that dont revolve around an obnoxious/unavoidable mechanic.

Examples:

Necromancers who build up toughness/vit to run up to nodes, just to turn on plague form and button mash the blind, contesting it for 30 seconds, and longer since 2900 armor and 30k health doesnt take down itself.

Rangers who hide next to water or water based nodes/combat just to abuse the underwater pet heal, or only choose to fight with another person so that they can be covered in the land downed state while their pet rofl heals them back up. Or sword/dagger/shortbow rangers relying on nearly endless cycles of dodging hoping their pet can take down your hp as you frantically attempt to hit them in the middle of their dodges.

Mesmers who abuse the Sword #2 whenever they mess up a keystroke or blink into a wall. Killshot damage in 2 seconds while invincible, 25% uptime invulnerability. Also, most mesmer builds revolved around stacking3-4 stealths, blinks, position swaps, and culling abuse, utilizing a stupid high health pool with low cd tricks to endlessly cycle them with little penalty for misusing a skill.

Thieves who stack 6 stealths and shortbow warp, many of which on low cd’s to repeatedly dissapear, easily compensating for lack of good judgement for when to flee or avoid combat for a duration. Also, thieves who stack burst for steal/backstab incrediburst, and heartseeker spam to ensure their hits never miss and <50% targets go down in a flash.

Elementalists who can use various mist forms/movement abilities to easily mitigate large portions of damage and flee from any engagement. Ive seen an elementalist on Battle of Khylo go from one of the corner nodes to the base path of Clocktower in 4 seconds, all the while invincible, escaping 6 teammates. Of course, water-healing builds with incredible lame healing persecond, combined with movement abilities to stay untouched and waste your time.

I rarely get to enjoy fighting builds/players that outplay me from proper use of evading/cc/healing, or fighting scenarios where the opposing player/players escapes being killed for points by these ludicrous methods.

I think people who play pvp just to abuse these mechanics are lame and wasting everyone’s time, and perhaps a large chunk of the reason S PvP has been so unpopular since 3 months after release and onward.

1. yea it does need more maps/gametypes

2. lolwat. i have no idea how healthbars make pvp any better or worse.

3. welcome to every mmo ever.
a. never seen a necro do this. ever. ive only seen plague thing used defensively.
b. because every map has water in it. only a problem on raid on capricorn. getting out of being kited isn’t too difficult.
c. mesmers are supposed to be confusing/annoying. if you know what they can and can’t do, its a lot easier.
d. i don’t see the point in complaining about the sneaky class being sneaky. if you’re letting a thief bounce in and out of combat that easily, it’s you’re fault, not them being op or anything. backstab thieves usually only one or two shot glass cannons. if you aren’t running a glass cannon, you shouldn’t worry too much.
e. yea elementalists are frustrating. they’re like the frost mages of gw2.

most of the time, there is a counter to most anything any class can throw at you. it’s a matter of knowing what you can do and what they can do.

We have allrdy enough topics about “how mesmers are op” and other fancy stuff hotjoin players post here. So to summarize, we need more incentive to play.

PvP sucks because the balance is weak.
When the profession you play is more important than the skill you have then the game is not working properly and its not fun.
Look at warrior: so good to deal damage but could he in fact land the damage in a target before being dead? (just see how others are able to land their burst and compare)
For most people thats is fine because they play the professions that are well designed for PvP. Can escape, can heal, can do some impressive burst. But not all can do that and all should have some escape mechanics unique to each profession.
All should have stealth in some way: Rangers and warriors should be able to use camoflage for example.
Right now the battles in PvP dont seem fair and people usualy dont like to be beaten by OP classes.

The balance isn’t weak, it just needs some little changes. If it would be weak you would seen things like 5 eles. But no, you see 4 to 5 different classes in every setup. Mabye in hotjoin you see 5 thieves in a team but don’t consider it as PvP.

False, the balance is pretty horrible. The fact people play different things is because they like the sound of the profession and/or the way it plays, but not because the balance is “decent”. Same skill level people fight, Mesmer vs Engineer… who wins? Pretty easy and quick to answer.

Edit: Also, to the one who said “Bull’s Rush” has a low cd… face palm. Low CD is a traited staff Mesmer’s “Phase Retreat” (8 second for all of you paying attention).

This game was sold as a game where every class would be able to the same thing equally well on every front?

Go read the class philosophy, this was never their view. Clearly they had different attributes in mind for all sorts of classes which result in imbalances in advantages. This isnt a bad thing. The sicilian opening in chess tends to give you sexy queenside+central pressure but you arent going to be able to a kingside pawnstorm any time soon. Hell, chances are you’ll be subjected to them. This leads to a deep strategic game where the two opposite sides are striving for their ideal form of the game, usually with white bumrushing your king and black counterattacking through the center.

Imbalances=good
Unbalanced=bad
For example, eles deserve an arrow to their eyes.

@Oni

Class philosophy, it was there view when they sold the game. They changed their view when they saw what they originally had didn’t work. They have doubled back on what they said on a lot of things, or are you turning blind eyes towards all of that?

Further more, my point stands. No one should be able to look at a X vs Y and be able to say " X wins for sure". That is horrible balance and that is what we have in Guild Wars 2. As to the post by you that was deleted, LoL is a completely different game with different play style, it is… off center at best to try and compare the two.

Oni.5429:

This game was sold as a game where every class would be able to the same thing equally well on every front?

Go read the class philosophy, this was never their view. Clearly they had different attributes in mind for all sorts of classes which result in imbalances in advantages. This isnt a bad thing. The sicilian opening in chess tends to give you sexy queenside+central pressure but you arent going to be able to a kingside pawnstorm any time soon. Hell, chances are you’ll be subjected to them. This leads to a deep strategic game where the two opposite sides are striving for their ideal form of the game, usually with white bumrushing your king and black counterattacking through the center.

Imbalances=good
Unbalanced=bad
For example, eles deserve an arrow to their eyes.

I’m sorry, but this game isn’t chess. The strategies involved aren’t the same. Its simply one build will beat one build. Chess relies on strategy, GW2 pvp relies on builds before going into the game winning against certain builds.

Same as wow, there is only so much your class can do at any given point. The new players will always pass this off as “get more skill”, or such. Its not skill, its just an unbalanced game.

Vanthian.9267:

@Oni

Class philosophy, it was there view when they sold the game. They changed their view when they saw what they originally had didn’t work. They have doubled back on what they said on a lot of things, or are you turning blind eyes towards all of that?

Further more, my point stands. No one should be able to look at a X vs Y and be able to say " X wins for sure". That is horrible balance and that is what we have in Guild Wars 2. As to the post by you that was deleted, LoL is a completely different game with different play style, it is… off center at best to try and compare the two.

It was never their view. I’ve not seen a professionally developed game in the past ten years that held that view. Imbalances between classes are necessary for an interesting game.

I’ll sum it up for everyone here what the kitten problem is. Ready?

CC is out of control. Get it? Crowd control out of control? CC should be, like many MMO’s out there today locked on a character after they’ve taken 3 within I dunno, maybe a 10 second period then it refreshes.

The problem I see is certain classes dont have “get out of jail” free cards and others do who can simply back out of a fight whenever they want to. This SHOULD NOT be possible under any circumstance without a major trade-off.

Detcelfer.9736:

I’ll sum it up for everyone here what the kitten problem is. Ready?

CC is out of control. Get it? Crowd control out of control? CC should be, like many MMO’s out there today locked on a character after they’ve taken 3 within I dunno, maybe a 10 second period then it refreshes.

The problem I see is certain classes dont have “get out of jail” free cards and others do who can simply back out of a fight whenever they want to. This SHOULD NOT be possible under any circumstance without a major trade-off.

Take away cc and the bunkers get even more surivability though. That is almost the exact opposite of the point he was making.

Atlanis.6597:

It was never their view. I’ve not seen a professionally developed game in the past ten years that held that view. Imbalances between classes are necessary for an interesting game.

Imbalances no, uniqueness yes. In most MMOs every class can do something different I agree, but those different abilities are on par so that not one of them have a wide advantage over the other. Do some MMOs fail at balance? Why, yes they do! Are some actually pretty good at balance? Yes there are a few. I agree uniqueness is great in MMOs but imbalances make for more dull and uninteresting combat.

I am not arguing for uniform professions. I am saying we need balance between the unique classes. It is not fun nor interesting to have a unkillable class that can do whatever they want and get away with it. It is not fun to play nor play against.

Also, yes it was their view to have a balanced game. They openly stated they wanted all the professions to be able to do anything, maybe have one or two that is slightly, yes they used the word slightly, better at one thing than another but nothing outlandish like we have. Recently however, they did UPDATE their view on professions and wouldn’t you know it they just went with a 90 degree turn. Sure every class can do everything but the differences are staggering.

So, like I said in my original post, their original view and statement of the classes were that of balance: Every profession is close to one another in every field. This is why they didn’t want the “holy trinity” they kept on yelling about.

Just to show you how far apart some of the balance issues are… Compare Warrior support to Guardian support.

Vanthian.9267:

Atlanis.6597:

It was never their view. I’ve not seen a professionally developed game in the past ten years that held that view. Imbalances between classes are necessary for an interesting game.

Imbalances no, uniqueness yes. In most MMOs every class can do something different I agree, but those different abilities are on par so that not one of them have a wide advantage over the other. Do some MMOs fail at balance? Why, yes they do! Are some actually pretty good at balance? Yes there are a few. I agree uniqueness is great in MMOs but imbalances make for more dull and uninteresting combat.

I am not arguing for uniform professions. I am saying we need balance between the unique classes. It is not fun nor interesting to have a unkillable class that can do whatever they want and get away with it. It is not fun to play nor play against.

Also, yes it was their view to have a balanced game. They openly stated they wanted all the professions to be able to do anything, maybe have one or two that is slightly, yes they used the word slightly, better at one thing than another but nothing outlandish like we have. Recently however, they did UPDATE their view on professions and wouldn’t you know it they just went with a 90 degree turn. Sure every class can do everything but the differences are staggering.

So, like I said in my original post, their original view and statement of the classes were that of balance: Every profession is close to one another in every field. This is why they didn’t want the “holy trinity” they kept on yelling about.

Just to show you how far apart some of the balance issues are… Compare Warrior support to Guardian support.

Yep they did state at the beginning that all classes would be about equal with just some being a little better then others at very specific things. But then again they also said they wanted to be an e-spot, and have competitive pvp, and fun pvp, and they didn’t want to have multiple pvp game modes as that would split the community (and the first thing they did? split it into hot join and tpvp, then adding a 3rd in the form of paid’s, god Anet is a joke). They either lied about a lot of things or they changed their minds, or they just failed at it.

Vanthian.9267:

False, the balance is pretty horrible. The fact people play different things is because they like the sound of the profession and/or the way it plays, but not because the balance is “decent”. Same skill level people fight, Mesmer vs Engineer… who wins? Pretty easy and quick to answer.

Yes easy to answer: If both players are equally noobish the mesmer will likely win. If both are very skilled it will depend on what build each player is using.

The problem with so many of these feedback threads is that they are written by noobs like the OP that have limited pvp experience. Mesmer has been nerfed several times and are counterable depending on class builds, I don’t see any massive class imbalance in this game atm. Perhaps some classes could be toned down and others raised up slightly, but that is an ongoing process in any mmo as the game develops.

It’s just the lack of features that stops GW2 being more successful. E-Sports we’re coming!!! Soon.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

It’s just the lack of features that stops GW2 being more successful. E-Sports we’re coming!!! Soon.

100% Agreed.

There are several examples of games being successful despite having glaring imbalances (that often lasted for very long times and were a big Issue in the community), just look at these Games:

- SC2 has been quite imbalanced for long periods of time: There were months were Zerg couldn’t win anything and every Zerg was whining, then there were months (after certain changes in balance) were nothing could beat Zerg in the Lategame.
- DotA2 / HoN: There are always certain Heroes that are so incerdibly good, that they are being banned almost every game and then there are Heroes no1 really plays.
- Warcraft III TFT: Undead wasn’t able to win any Major Tournament for years, with only very few exceptions.
- Basically every Fighting-Game has a few Characters that are considered Top-Tier and some that almost no1 uses.

But name me one Game that had success in e-Sports where:

1) You weren’t able to make own games: This alone makes e-Sports impossible.
2) Had no Observer-Mode: Without Spectators there is no e-Sport and you can’t just Stream PoV’s of Players and expect people to watch and understand it.

Then there are other Features that are more aimed towards casual Players, like a good Matchmaking-System, a good Ladder etc., but I think those are secondary to the e-Sports Features (at least in my opinion).

PowerBottom.5796:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

It’s just the lack of features that stops GW2 being more successful. E-Sports we’re coming!!! Soon.

100% Agreed.

There are several examples of games being successful despite having glaring imbalances (that often lasted for very long times and were a big Issue in the community), just look at these Games:

- SC2 has been quite imbalanced for long periods of time: There were months were Zerg couldn’t win anything and every Zerg was whining, then there were months (after certain changes in balance) were nothing could beat Zerg in the Lategame.
- DotA2 / HoN: There are always certain Heroes that are so incerdibly good, that they are being banned almost every game and then there are Heroes no1 really plays.
- Warcraft III TFT: Undead wasn’t able to win any Major Tournament for years, with only very few exceptions.
- Basically every Fighting-Game has a few Characters that are considered Top-Tier and some that almost no1 uses.

But name me one Game that had success in e-Sports where:

1) You weren’t able to make own games: This alone makes e-Sports impossible.
2) Had no Observer-Mode: Without Spectators there is no e-Sport and you can’t just Stream PoV’s of Players and expect people to watch and understand it.

Then there are other Features that are more aimed towards casual Players, like a good Matchmaking-System, a good Ladder etc., but I think those are secondary to the e-Sports Features (at least in my opinion).

The blademaster still hunts my DK in my nightmares.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LET ME CREEP :’(

its because all those listed classes are broken. everyone here will just say L2P, because they play them. if anyone was even close to being in a top 10 3’s 5’s team in wow they would know how kitten it is.

but you have to consider that GW2 is mainly the battleground zergfest of wow, not the arena players. so everything is cheesy and imbalanced.

Arena net decided to remove monks, rather than make monks more attractive to the average player. They decided to assign skills based on weapon, making skill balancing a lot easier. They decided that out of your utilities one must be a heal, one must be an elite. In making these decisions they have accepted that organised team vs team annihilation will never exist in this game beyond zerging. One zerg vs another zerg is mindless compared to the coordinated play of designed teams with designated roles. I’m not saying the PvP has no value, but it does feel like the low hanging fruit is the ideal here. More time went into designing classes and how they’s play as opposed to how PvP will play out as a whole. To make designs of ele’s and engineers and mesmers..then design a ranger that has no where near the same levels of sophistication (I’m guessing for people who prefer a more straight forward play style.) and to toss them all in together and say, “It’s balanced.”..well, something about those words just doesn’t seem to fit at times and I can see way some players can get frustrated with PvP. I would like to see a pie graph of frequency of classes used in PvP. If it is balanced the pie should be evenly divided..yet some how I very much doubt we’ll see that.

Eurantien.4632:

What! This game sounds awesome. Everyone has so many chances to stay in combat the fight will just go on until someone gets outsmarted! Why am I not playing this? It’s like intense chess!

How low you’ve gone, ANET.

15 Glory points pts for killing a guy. 0 glory point for holding a node. Something is wrong with it.

I also agree with the maps. Now I realize why Khylo is my fav map : more obstacles, more walls, some roofs to shoot from… I just wish the treb was not here.

JimmyJazz.7943:

Keep in mind the game is new, builds are coming and going. I do feel game it’s not that unbalanced. It’s a matter of position, team based strats; There are classes that beat other classes in 1v1. It’s called Counterclasses.

Every game has that, or at least most of the games I can think of. If a player outplays you, is because you did something wrong, or he did something right.

I as engineer, haven’t found a single moment where I’ve died because of unbalancing. Everytime I died was either because of the situation it self, or because I did something wrong.

I dunno, sometimes it’s because a player has found someway to use a set of skills in a way the devs did not intend…..
I’ve been in one on ones a few times now, I’ve gone back over what I did and what they did and found NO WAY AT ALL to have won. Due to their specific build. The idea of counterclass and rock, paper,scissors is so 2005 it’s not funny.
For example, I got utetrly trashed by a mesmer one day, i whispered him and asked about his build. He kindly replied and explained it. I rolled a mesmer and used that build. All the games I used that particular build, I never lost a 1v1 to any class…and it’s NOT because I’m good.
The op mentioned the ele D/D type builds, if the player behind it is good…….just what are you going to do to stop them? I have one, a scepter/dagger build and I find it to be crazy strong…vs anything….

I think the op needs to stop worrying about it and try to not bother when he gets cheesed, because there ARE builds in this game that are unbalanced and unfair. Arenanet promised a lot, but did not deliver.

The PvP is like CoD, Gears of War, and a kittened up RPG twist into it.

First I thought you didn’t know what you were talking about, but this nails the current state of spvp so well that I just kept nodding for the rest of your post.

Blakish.8153:

So I got this game a few days ago, I got a guardian up to 42 and was thinking the PvP was gonna be sick. Later when I started doing, this games PvP is a joke. Honestly, terrible PvP you just can’t go ham it takes usually 5 mins to kill 1 person, that’s just ridiculous. I love doing PvP games and I’ve played a lot and i gotta say that there are so many better games with better PvP. And don’t be like “stop QQing” because i know wtf im saying.

There is seriously something wrong with the PvP its just so bad not balanced at all just terrible. When I was researching this game before I bought it I thought the elite skills were gonna be like a big juicy burst which is what this game needs. This game has no sense of feeling of going ham. You just can’t. The PvP is like CoD, Gears of War, and a kittened up RPG twist into it.

The only thing that kitten es me off is you cant go HAM like go crazy and kill everyone. In Skyfall or whatever its called, whoever has the cannon wins and whoever can knock you off the map wins. Just so terrible. And I just don’t understand why when I asked people what a good PvP game is they told me GW2 because it is just NOT a good PvP game at all. Its a joke. The PvP is a joke.

Despite all my mad rage about this games PvP the questing is very vamped up and different than most games and enjoyable. I like the events and stuff, no other game has that but honestly I just recommend this game to people who like to mindlessly kill NPCs with a few buttons. The in game store is kitten too. Here ya go, you get like 2 slots in your bank, you have to pay for more. Plus you get these useless chests that you have to pay to open.

pretty good summary

So I got this game a few days ago, I got a guardian up to 42 and was thinking the PvP was gonna be sick. Later when I started doing, this games PvP is a joke. Honestly, terrible PvP you just can’t go ham it takes usually 5 mins to kill 1 person, that’s just ridiculous. I love doing PvP games and I’ve played a lot and i gotta say that there are so many better games with better PvP. And don’t be like “stop QQing” because i know wtf im saying

If your taking 5 minutes to kill someone then your doing it wrong.

5 months after the OP post the game remains the same as the OP described. 5 Months later after my post, the game will be the exact same.