Guild Wars 2

Lopez.7369:

Making Well of Darkness a 30-second cooldown and maybe making it a stunbreaker would do a lot to fix necromancers without giving the class too much mobility, which the developers seem resistant to since it goes against the class’s theme.

That should also be part of a broader sweep on necromancer’s utility skills. ArenaNet needs to make the spectral skills more potent and reduce the cooldowns on almost all non-corruption utility skills.

That, on top of a dark DOT that could act like burning in terms of damage and cleansing protection, would be enough to fix the class.

That would be enough to make us OP.

If necro was a good class you would see more of them in tpvp and spvp, these days you hardly ever see one on a premade team.

Cant get away or defend yourself from focus fire on a necro, as more people L2P being a necro is going to get worst.

Make it so a necro can actually stop people even thiefs from running as was a class focus so Anet claimed and things might change a little.

I would love to see necro be a counter to runners and roamers flying around the maps at warp speeds.

How is possible that none Dev not yet answered in this topic?

Alustriel.6802:

How is possible that none Dev not yet answered in this topic?

It’s about Necros, that’s why.

We had to post video evidence about a bug that has been in-game since release and talked about for over a month affecting our down state, leaving us with 1/3 of our intended life in PvE and WvW before a dev would confirm that they would fix it.

I wonder what happens If necros dont have the rez signet.. Necro need a full rework.

But at least take epidemic from necros, and give them a few better ways to apply conditions.

From their description of necros by Jon sharp:

“The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.”

I think this is fine. And think they are close to this. He mentions access to poison and this should be made true. Poison should be increased duration on the scepter and maybe even added to scepter 2 too. Maybe also add poison to death shroud 5 with the new condition also

Lordrosicky.5813:

From their description of necros by Jon sharp:

“The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.”

I think this is fine. And think they are close to this. He mentions access to poison and this should be made true. Poison should be increased duration on the scepter and maybe even added to scepter 2 too. Maybe also add poison to death shroud 5 with the new condition also

ANet’s class descriptions and philosophies are flawed and deceiving, reading up on other profession’s after playing them is hilarious.

For the Necro’s here’s where it falls apart:

We have a lot of ways to win attrition fights – We have more HP and damage overtime, that however doesn’t win an attrition fight. Having HP isn’t equal to having more survivability in this game and damage overtime just means that stuff takes longer to die or that the damage can be stopped without even healing.

Poison on multiple weapons – That’s true, we have it on a whole 2 weapons, that’s more than 1.

Combine condition with raw damage – Who the hell doesn’t in this game?

Multiple disables – If you build for interrupt it’s true, but a Necro only has 1 certain disable and that’s Doom. Our other disables are WH 4, Staff 5, Golem’s charge and Lich’s 3. The last 2 are mutually exclusive, WH4 and Staff 5 have 1/2 and 3/4 casting times, respectively, and the Golem charge has severe pathing issues.

Multiple movement penalties – We have cripple on scepter and WH(if you actually manage to get close to a fleeing enemy), chill on staff and immobilize on dagger( good luck with that casting time). Our movement penalties are spread all over and most do nothing against blinks. Getting away from a Necro without a full CC build is notoriously easy since they don’t have movement skills of their own.

Finally, a telling point about the broken design in Necro is shown by answering the following question: Do you feel more powerful underwater and why?
I’ll bet the underwater set was designed and built later in development than the rest.

Also don’t forget that Necro’s had the latest redesign in this game and we are still finding bugs from when DS was a downed state.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Alustriel.6802:

How is possible that none Dev not yet answered in this topic?

It’s about Necros, that’s why.

We had to post video evidence about a bug that has been in-game since release and talked about for over a month affecting our down state, leaving us with 1/3 of our intended life in PvE and WvW before a dev would confirm that they would fix it.

Dev seen that topic only because Lemanve catched JonPeters on Kaypud stream that day and linked it to him, otherwise we would still wait for response.

Lordrosicky.5813:

“The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.”

jesus, if they really think that some more hp makes necro balanced with….lets say mesmers, we are doomed.

For all your complaining, I bring you my Necromancer getting some sweet revenge against the Almighty Guardian heh.

The philosophy description for necromancer is paradoxical because the class’s bad mobility makes it so other classes can almost always get away. Thieves, elementalists and mesmers can run around a necromancer without problems and it’s almost impossible for the necromancer to peel them off. (On this note, I feel like MMO developers consistently undervalue mobility in terms of survivability and damage potential.)

Some high-level necromancers already run without resurrection signet in favor of Spectral Walk because the class’s biggest problem is its lack of an out, not team support.

ArtemusHunter.9521:

For all your complaining, I bring you my Necromancer getting some sweet revenge against the Almighty Guardian heh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wDroo8ZITI

In fact, guardians, right after warriors are probably easiest match for necromancer. They’re also christmas gift for Conditionmancers. Try taking down phantasm mesmer or D/P thief, current meta nightmares of necros. Back to the topic: If you really think necromancers are that useless, you’ve never met experienced one. Yes, we do have limited mobility but, you know… Spectral Walk is soo underrated, while it actually saves your kitten same for Flesh Wurm(this one, however, needs totally clear paths or exploit experience). Another thing : I don’t know If I should laugh or cry at these “epidemic is worthless” posts. It literally allows you to kite up to 5 melee targets via spreading cripple, chill, immobilize. One good condi Terrormancer can wipe out 5-player group in tpvp only If he knows how to position himself. My experience. I agree that Life Blast isn’t the best skill atm, and Dark Path could have targeted shadowstep instead of teleport, bht we’re not really that bad as you may guess. At least terror is nice in current meta, you have a chance against all classes If you play with mind and focused, not moving and acting by faceroll and random double dodges. My suggestion : just play necro,get use to it, accept disadvantages, it’s still viable, you can also ask somemore experienced players for tips. Otherwise, roll /15 chars and end up playing Asura Mesmer, just because other proffessions are so “weak”. Here you have a reason for lack of (good) Necromancers and total flood of mesmers. People just act like: "Oh, current meta has no place for necros, lets get and engineer! After lost game: “Erm… That necro downed us in one epidemic.. Nerf?” ^^

Rym.1469:

In fact, guardians, right after warriors are probably easiest match for necromancer. They’re also christmas gift for Conditionmancers. Try taking down phantasm mesmer or D/P thief, current meta nightmares of necros. Back to the topic: If you really think necromancers are that useless, you’ve never met experienced one. Yes, we do have limited mobility but, you know… Spectral Walk is soo underrated, while it actually saves your kitten same for Flesh Wurm(this one, however, needs totally clear paths or exploit experience). Another thing : I don’t know If I should laugh or cry at these “epidemic is worthless” posts. It literally allows you to kite up to 5 melee targets via spreading cripple, chill, immobilize. One good condi Terrormancer can wipe out 5-player group in tpvp only If he knows how to position himself. My experience. I agree that Life Blast isn’t the best skill atm, and Dark Path could have targeted shadowstep instead of teleport, bht we’re not really that bad as you may guess. At least terror is nice in current meta, you have a chance against all classes If you play with mind and focused, not moving and acting by faceroll and random double dodges. My suggestion : just play necro,get use to it, accept disadvantages, it’s still viable, you can also ask somemore experienced players for tips. Otherwise, roll /15 chars and end up playing Asura Mesmer, just because other proffessions are so “weak”. Here you have a reason for lack of (good) Necromancers and total flood of mesmers. People just act like: "Oh, current meta has no place for necros, lets get and engineer! After lost game: “Erm… That necro downed us in one epidemic.. Nerf?” ^^

May I ask you which Necro downed someone with one epidemic?

I agree that Epidemic is not bad, but it isn’t also that good.
People reroll Asura Mesmer not because Necromancer is strong.

A single Epidemic can completely wipe a team. It requires coordination, however, and frankly very few teams show the coordination to actually throw out good Epidemic’s consistently; and most of those teams are EU and don’t run condi cleave comps.

Bhawb.7408:

A single Epidemic can completely wipe a team. It requires coordination, however, and frankly very few teams show the coordination to actually throw out good Epidemic’s consistently; and most of those teams are EU and don’t run condi cleave comps.

It is a whole profession enclosed into only one skill.
I don’t care how strong Epidemic is if the surroundings are awful and they pretty much are.

Bhawb.7408:

A single Epidemic can completely wipe a team. It requires coordination, however, and frankly very few teams show the coordination to actually throw out good Epidemic’s consistently; and most of those teams are EU and don’t run condi cleave comps.

It can, as long as their team has no condition cleansing, healing, transfers, boons, or brains.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Bhawb.7408:

A single Epidemic can completely wipe a team. It requires coordination, however, and frankly very few teams show the coordination to actually throw out good Epidemic’s consistently; and most of those teams are EU and don’t run condi cleave comps.

It can, as long as their team has no condition cleansing, healing, transfers, boons, or brains.

Let’s also not forget that the guy with all those conditions stacked on him has to survive long enough for you to cast epidemic.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Lordrosicky.5813:

From their description of necros by Jon sharp:

“The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.”

I think this is fine. And think they are close to this. He mentions access to poison and this should be made true. Poison should be increased duration on the scepter and maybe even added to scepter 2 too. Maybe also add poison to death shroud 5 with the new condition also

ANet’s class descriptions and philosophies are flawed and deceiving, reading up on other profession’s after playing them is hilarious.

For the Necro’s here’s where it falls apart:

We have a lot of ways to win attrition fights – We have more HP and damage overtime, that however doesn’t win an attrition fight. Having HP isn’t equal to having more survivability in this game and damage overtime just means that stuff takes longer to die or that the damage can be stopped without even healing.

Poison on multiple weapons – That’s true, we have it on a whole 2 weapons, that’s more than 1.

Combine condition with raw damage – Who the hell doesn’t in this game?

Multiple disables – If you build for interrupt it’s true, but a Necro only has 1 certain disable and that’s Doom. Our other disables are WH 4, Staff 5, Golem’s charge and Lich’s 3. The last 2 are mutually exclusive, WH4 and Staff 5 have 1/2 and 3/4 casting times, respectively, and the Golem charge has severe pathing issues.

Multiple movement penalties – We have cripple on scepter and WH(if you actually manage to get close to a fleeing enemy), chill on staff and immobilize on dagger( good luck with that casting time). Our movement penalties are spread all over and most do nothing against blinks. Getting away from a Necro without a full CC build is notoriously easy since they don’t have movement skills of their own.

Finally, a telling point about the broken design in Necro is shown by answering the following question: Do you feel more powerful underwater and why?
I’ll bet the underwater set was designed and built later in development than the rest.

Also don’t forget that Necro’s had the latest redesign in this game and we are still finding bugs from when DS was a downed state.

lol, you have fair points I can’t deny it. The lack of access to poison (shouldnt that be a thing for the necro?) is annoying.

Alustriel.6802:

How is possible that none Dev not yet answered in this topic?

As a matter of fact, devs are working hard on several skill facts updates.
Let them do their job and be patient

I think its pretty obvious that the necro needs some work. The bottom line is that the necro’s have been discussed by so many players in terms of their “lacking” that when overly defending the idea is making it seem as if so many people are just imagining it.

You don’t see mesmers or elementalists threads on how underpowered they feel over and over and over. Many people have complaints and there MUST be some truth to it.

Although I always feel there can be some room for debate especially when it comes to meta, the idea that NOBODY has implemented consistency with a particular build for tpvp just because they would rather follow the meta is rather ridiculous (no offense). The meta is formed for a reason. Not that it cant be broken and usually is by top tier teams in many competitive games. When forming a “meta” there is always a trial and error stage. To believe that nobody has even tried to make a certain Necro build a “safe” choice to implement in a team comp is unrealistic.

My opinion is : If you want to play a Necro, then play it. The gameplay is rather different than other classes and surely it requires more practice, but it’s, as I said, viable. I guess that Engineers, Mesmers, Thieves and Elementalists are just much easier to play and understand, you don’t have to play that perfectly , if you get into bad spot, you can escape by pressing one button. Necromancer isn’t that worse, it just requires more prediction, experience and thinking imo.

Alot of peoples suggestions to fix the class relate to 1 specific spec the necromancer has to offer and not the class as a whole which i think is a little short sighted.

Personally i feel some of the buffs should come in the form of deathshroud buffs that way all specs have access to them.

In the spec i run which is a power well spec i feel i have to sacrifice alot to get what i dont have access to mainly stability and mobility.

I have to run warhorn to have any sort of movement buff in between points..

So i have to run 30 into power to get closer to death- i have to run 10 in death magic to get greater marks and then i have to run 30 into soul reaping to get 3 seconds of stability.

I would love to take at least 20 into curses to get ground targetted wells and fury upon ds and different variations which i have done in the past.

There are some generalizations that you can make about necromancer tournament play.

1. You have to take a staff- and by doing so you have to take greater marks.
2. You have to take signet of undeath.

So basically i have 2 utilites i can use which are both wells, i would love to take spectral walk or bone minions or something else but i just cant.( if you are a condimancer you generally take epi and corrupt boon)

I guess my point is that we are a little tied down in what we have to take and we have to take certain things to make up for what we as a class dont have readily availiable access too.

Well I’m hoping since they’re working on DS#5, it means they’ll be looking at Necromancer as a whole. 2 Necro threads over 100 replies and no dev response. I’m not holding my breathe for anything until SotG comes out.

One day my nebro’s, one day. We will have equality.

We were in a good spot (tpvp) until they made hgh engi and thiefs outclass us in two patches. Thiefs got that boon strip evade garbage and HGHs pressure bunker guards much harder than we ever could.

Making greater marks the default size would be a huge step in the right direction.

Login.5102:

Making greater marks the default size would be a huge step in the right direction.

I agree, it would safe as 10 Trait point, if we are going with staff [and it is hard to go without it, as it provide great support]. I personaly don’t really need the ‘unblockable’ function on my marks, as they are evaded very easily.

Rym.1469:

One good condi Terrormancer can wipe out 5-player group in tpvp only If he knows how to position himself.

Bhawb.7408:

A single Epidemic can completely wipe a team. It requires coordination, however, and frankly very few teams show the coordination to actually throw out good Epidemic’s consistently; and most of those teams are EU and don’t run condi cleave comps.

And Thiefs can wipe out entire teams without losing a single hip point…

Don’t make absurd claims. Show video proof. I highly doubt both statements quoted above and would love to see proof.

Hey, Jon, will this month’s patch bring balance changes? I believe some dev has mentioned that they might wait a bit longer to let the meta settle, while changes to underused builds are being worked on, and I wonder if this means we might get one month without balance changes or not.

BobJoeXXI.2493:

And Thiefs can wipe out entire teams without losing a single hip point…

Don’t make absurd claims. Show video proof. I highly doubt both statements quoted above and would love to see proof.

It really isn’t that difficult to think of a situation where an Epidemic could wipe a team. In the L2P that Gibbly and SOAC did, they wiped a team pretty easily by stacking a bunch of condis on them and then blowing them up with 2 Epidemics right after the other.

No one is saying that it is easy to wipe a team with Epidemic, but if you hit someone with 15 bleed stacks, some various other condis (burning, confusion, w/e else), then chain Terror them and Epi, the entire team can be stuck in a 4 second fear taking over 4k DPS just off their conditions. Is this a realistic scenario that currently happens often? Of course not, in fact outside of teams running multiple Necros it is incredibly rare. But it remains that Epidemic has the highest “one click” damage potential of any skill in the game, if it is given the required setup.

Bhawb.7408:

BobJoeXXI.2493:

And Thiefs can wipe out entire teams without losing a single hip point…

Don’t make absurd claims. Show video proof. I highly doubt both statements quoted above and would love to see proof.

It really isn’t that difficult to think of a situation where an Epidemic could wipe a team. In the L2P that Gibbly and SOAC did, they wiped a team pretty easily by stacking a bunch of condis on them and then blowing them up with 2 Epidemics right after the other.

No one is saying that it is easy to wipe a team with Epidemic, but if you hit someone with 15 bleed stacks, some various other condis (burning, confusion, w/e else), then chain Terror them and Epi, the entire team can be stuck in a 4 second fear taking over 4k DPS just off their conditions. Is this a realistic scenario that currently happens often? Of course not, in fact outside of teams running multiple Necros it is incredibly rare. But it remains that Epidemic has the highest “one click” damage potential of any skill in the game, if it is given the required setup.

Yea and warrior can 1 shot 5 people with the new signet and killshot once the stars allign too. Stop it with the hypotheticals. Meta has too much condition cleanse in team fights and epidemic has a long cast time bro.

Torqky.3682:

Meta has too much condition cleanse in team fights and epidemic has a long cast time bro.

Very, very true. My scepter attacks stack 15 bleed easily and it still makes most classes unphased (even Necro’s) because of the ridiculous amounts of condition cleansing. Bhawb is living in a dream world where no one has condition cleansing and epidemic is the end all be all.

JonathanSharp.7094:

The balance guys and I are watching this thread, and we’ve really enjoyed some of the ideas you guys are putting out.

Great! Any word on the new condition? What can we expect?

Also, can I ask what are your thoughts on making the staff untraited circles bigger, while leaving the unblockable aspect in the traits? It would open up more logical build paths!

JonathanSharp.7094:

So while we do want to help the Necro to see more play in competitive builds (both in variety of roles and variety of builds), we are being very careful not to give them too much.

JonathanSharp.7094:

This month will be focused on bug fixes, with balance coming in later patches!

You overnerfed the necro and we have to wait almost a year for a balance. You are afraid of giving necros too much and we got stuck with several awful traits and mechanics… it seems unfair to me.

we need the same atenttion rangers and engis got when they begged for a helping hand.

please listen all the suggestions on the necro forum and take note on all bugs we have had since launch.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So you know (history lesson incoming): There was a time in balance when Necromancers were the apex class for mulitple specs in the game. They were the best tanks (death shroud building + wells giving protection, while also wiping condies), had some of the best mobility (their old Death Shround #2 was a ground targeted teleport!) and they had insane damage/boon ripping with Axe-based bunker killing hybrid builds.

-Chap

Death Shorud #2 was ground targeted!?! Bring that back imo. Would love to have some real mobility.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey all! Just wanted to say thanks for keeping this thread so positive and constructive. The balance guys and I are watching this thread, and we’ve really enjoyed some of the ideas you guys are putting out.

I’m really glad to hear this coming from a dev, thank you Chap ^^

In other hand, I will suggest some traits fusion (like other professions already got) and some brand new to fit the holes left by the fusions (maybe a trait related to the new skill of DS?).
I think if you do this properly -adjusting numbers if necessary- necros will be again a nice profession to play because, you know, right now is a bit awful U.U

nicodemus.3812:

Death Shorud #2 was ground targeted!?! Bring that back imo. Would love to have some real mobility.

I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 since beta, always mained a Necromancer and that change was for better. That skill was ridicously OP back in those days, period.

Anyway, I think if they make the claw travel a bit faster we will notice a nice improve on mobility in general

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey all! Just wanted to say thanks for keeping this thread so positive and constructive. The balance guys and I are watching this thread, and we’ve really enjoyed some of the ideas you guys are putting out.

So you know (history lesson incoming): There was a time in balance when Necromancers were the apex class for mulitple specs in the game. They were the best tanks (death shroud building + wells giving protection, while also wiping condies), had some of the best mobility (their old Death Shround #2 was a ground targeted teleport!) and they had insane damage/boon ripping with Axe-based bunker killing hybrid builds.

So while we do want to help the Necro to see more play in competitive builds (both in variety of roles and variety of builds), we are being very careful not to give them too much. We will be adjusting them just like all the other classes, and I just wanted to let you guys know we ARE watching threads like this.

The same can be said for Warriors in TPvP, non shortbow-based Thieves, different specs for Engi that are weak, etc. etc. We want all classes to have multiple options, so that’s what we’ll be looking for in upcoming balance changes. This will happen through number adjustments (the multipliers on specific skills), through skill “toolbox” adjustments (like we did with S/D Thief removing boons) and through trait adjustments (Warrior changes to counter condies + boons).

And as always, we don’t want to do crazy increases followed by large decreases. We are employing metered changes as opposed to a ‘whack-a-mole’ approach.

Sorry for no response until now, been out of the office a few weeks to see family.

-Chap

thats great and all except you have been saying since release and yet still most classes only have 1 or 2 viable specs for pvp and a bloat of traits that are worthless for both pvp and pve

i mean for necro as is, minion AI is still terrible, axe still sucks, lifesteal builds still suck. what has change since they were the apex? nothing.

This month patch will be bug fixing ?!
I am out then

emon.1863:

This month patch will be bug fixing ?!
I am out then

that typically translates to 90% water ability fixes

emon.1863:

This month patch will be bug fixing ?!
I am out then

I know right…There is the pve patch/wvw patch/spvp patch/bugfix patch/balance patch… Its getting old. The progress is non-existent because they cant prioritize kitten! Bug fixes should come with balance and should be prioritized. Bugfixes this late in the game should be low priority

Oh so because Necros were extremely powerful before release we can now be left below the power curve?
That balances it out?
Because really, that’s what the first post reads like.

I may sound very frustrated, that’s because I am, since Necros have been complaining about mobility/survival since release without any address, apparently because a version that was seen by a small minority months before release was very powerful.

The Necro forums has been filled to the brim with every kind of imaginable balance fix for the profession. Really just read the topics and pick what you don’t feel would be too OP, it’s almost all better than the current package.

We’ve posted threads with systematic analyzes about trait/skill/utility distributions and how everything is a mess.

Did you know we have 9 traits dedicated to minions, 2 of which are minors?
Only 1 trait for corruption skills which is -20% cd?
No traits that work on underwater weapons?

JonathanSharp.7094:

…..
So you know (history lesson incoming): There was a time in balance when Necromancers were the apex class for mulitple specs in the game. They were the best tanks (death shroud building + wells giving protection, while also wiping condies), had some of the best mobility (their old Death Shround #2 was a ground targeted teleport!) and they had insane damage/boon ripping with Axe-based bunker killing hybrid builds.
…
And as always, we don’t want to do crazy increases followed by large decreases. We are employing metered changes as opposed to a ‘whack-a-mole’ approach.

Sorry for no response until now, been out of the office a few weeks to see family.

-Chap

Mr. Sharp,

Thank you for taking the time to address this thread that other staff have seen and ignored up to this point. I really do appreciate the effort that you personally make to be in the communication loop with the community.

With that said…

If there was EVER a time that Necromancer was the apex class in Conquest, then it had to have been in closed testing that I never saw. During the open Betas I was there and saw when Necromancer was strong before it got nerfed into the dirt. It was good, but still not in a state that I would describe as “Apex” by any stretch of the imagination. I hope you were not referring to the open beta-nerf time frame of Necromancer, because the changes that were made to the game after that were exactly the types of changes that I assume you would like to avoid. What remains to be said is that after that point in time Necromacer was NEVER particularly strong, but was acceptable because they had unrivalled boon stripping (which is no longer the case and why they are arguably Warrior Tier or worse at this point).

Tweaks need to be made to necro in at least 2 of the 3 below to make them viable again.
1) DPS – Shroud 5 getting another DoT will help the lack of condition diversity that necro’s currently suffer for, but it can’t just be on shroud 5 with a long cd. You have to find another place to stick it too. Alternatively, you could buff some of the weapon skill base damages and stop pretending that it would be OP because of minions. A single weapon that has any kind of burst potential wouldn’t be a bad thing.

2) Sustainability – Every class in this game has better damage mitigation and sustainability than necro by a mile, and Death Shroud is an absolutely miserable compensation for that, the amount of boons, blocks, evades, endurance boosting traits, etc. that every other class has more than make up for their lack of an extra HP bar. I don’t ever want to hear “but you have Death Shroud” again. This simply is not good enough and everyone that has played the game knows it. If you are going to leave Necromacer defenseless in terms of blocks, evades, invulns, etc. then Life force generation needs a huge boost.

3) Mobility – C’mon man. Necro’s move like old people … well, ya know.

On the topic of build diversity and traits it would be nice to have the greater marks trait as well as soul marks be made baseline for staff. People tend to only mention greater marks but soul marks is a must have lot’s of times too. So in the end we have pretty much staff as a must have weapon in most situations then we have greater marks as well as soul marks being quite essential.

He was referencing Closed Beta, where we were, in fact, hilariously OP. For every position there was a Necro build that did it best. Not only could you out everything someone of the same role, but you could do it with relatively high abilities in other areas. Necro bunkers were still very mobile with high damage. High damage Necros could still eat tons of damage. Oh, and did he mention Lich form’s auto attack was a cleaving Backstab on a 1s auto attack? Yeah, Necros were OP, and ANet bashed their skulls in with a nerf hammer.

That said, we are very close to being in a great place. We have a multitude of builds that could work, but are just a tiny bit short of viable. Just a bit too defenseless, bit too slow, not quite enough damage, etc. I’d say first fix our trait tree, which I think could be done without too much effort, and see where that gets us first. Look at things like siphoning, our lack of stunbreaks, LF generation on certain weapons, and overall synergy. Obviously fix the bugs in minion AI, and the bunch of other bugs that still plague skills overall. See where that all gets us, because I would bet that it will put us in the right place or very close. And if at the end of all the minor tweaks we are still not quite there then take in the more drastic changes people in the forums want.

Frankly, this is already what ANet is doing, people just want it faster.

JonathanSharp.7094:

had some of the best mobility (their old Death Shround #2 was a ground targeted teleport!)
-Chap

Funny, some time ago i suggested dark path to be changed to ground target to help necro a little with his almost no-mobility, and now comes out that it was originaly working that way :\

:sad:sad:sad

Sounds like beta Necro was nerfed a la whack a mole style. The kind you’re trying to avoid. If I remember correctly, siphon skills would heal you for heaps, and now they heal you for kittens, and are barely used in most builds because siphons just aren’t strong enough. Other than that, thank you for responding to the thread, glad to know you hear our cries.

PS Need Vigor!

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

nicodemus.3812:

Death Shorud #2 was ground targeted!?! Bring that back imo. Would love to have some real mobility.

I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 since beta, always mained a Necromancer and that change was for better. That skill was ridicously OP back in those days, period.

Anyway, I think if they make the claw travel a bit faster we will notice a nice improve on mobility in general

How? How on earth was it OP? It functioned no different than the elementalist, mesmer, and thief versions, and in the case of thieves, they have multiple teleports like that and one of them has no cool down. If its not OP on elementalists, mesmers, and thieves, how on earth is it OP on a necro?