The whole idea of creating a Mesmer was stupid, here's why

The whole idea of creating a Mesmer was stupid, here's why

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Posted by: azera.2890

azera.2890

Okay, so I’ve been playing an Elementalist since release with 290 hours played, I’m pretty good with it and I rarely lose any 1v1s. With that said, I feel pretty comfortable and self-confident when playing Elementalist, I never hesitate to 1v1, except for when I see a Mesmer. When I see a Mesmer holding a point, or doing anything at all for that matter, I just turn around and run away, unless I’ve seen he’s absolutely god awful, which almost no Mesmers are.

Now, why is this? I will tell you why.

This whole mechanic involving illusions and clones is too messy and chaotic. I know that we who play PvP on a serious level and strive to become better and high end will learn to counter the Mesmer in time, and when we’ve learned to fully counter the Mesmer, the Mesmer will be absolutely USELESS, since its only advantage is the cluster kitten that is their clones. Now, that is one of the problems, that once you learn to counter Mesmer, they will just suck, basically.

Another big problem is the fact that many players will never learn to counter Mesmers, and thus in that state the Mesmer will always be overpowered. For a bad player who plays for the fun of it, this is not an enjoyment of any sort.

Point is, Mesmers are something of a big kitten mess.

When we don’t know how the whole illusion thing works, Mesmers are OP.

When we understand it, they suck.

I really don’t see the point of this class, at all. I thought PvP stood for player vs player and not player versus AI.

You really have to make this PvP less of a cluster kitten and give us more obvious effects and less 700 minions per square inch.

(edited by azera.2890)

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Posted by: keroksi.3076

keroksi.3076

I agree 100%!

While we are at it, leave a pet to ranger and maybe 1 summonable pet to necro and just erase the rest.

I mean why should thief be able to put up 5 AI-fighters at one time, cmon?!

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Posted by: milo.6942

milo.6942

I thought the counter to mesmer was aoe

The whole idea of creating a Mesmer was stupid, here's why

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Posted by: Ben.3760

Ben.3760

Can’t you just ctrl + T to keep track of the real one?

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Posted by: azera.2890

azera.2890

Obviously there will be a lot more counters to Mesmers than just AoE, however, not every class or spec has AoE, and every class and spec should be able to beat every other class or spec, provided they have the amount of skill required.

More counters to Mesmers big illusion cluster kitten are coming, and by then, Mesmers will be useless.

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Posted by: Warjin.8942

Warjin.8942

“Ben.3760: Can’t you just ctrl + T to keep track of the real one?”

Reply: Not unless you are in a group, what needs to be done is make it so “Tab” will not target the clones unless you click on them via mouse pointer, same for all pets Ranger and Necro alike.

P.S. that’s a freebie ArenaNet, next one will cost you: )

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Posted by: Archadian.5024

Archadian.5024

Hey man, great sweeping generalization!

Fight to eat, eat to live, live to die.

The whole idea of creating a Mesmer was stupid, here's why

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Posted by: Keltic.9526

Keltic.9526

Mesmers are not really all that hard, you just need to persist and never shy from them. Just keep forcing yourself to play against them, create one as an alt, learn the ins and outs of them and you will find that you will destroy them without much of an issue.

Getting them downed isn’t hard but getting them defeated is where the real skill comes to play,kittenMesmers!

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Posted by: Irishbrewed.6537

Irishbrewed.6537

290hours played? Woah brotha! Im concerned.

/hug

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Posted by: robbiebp.9475

robbiebp.9475

AoE dumps mesmer illusions pretty hard. They’re a pain yeah, nothing on guardians.

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Posted by: LiliOups.5327

LiliOups.5327

so far as a thief i don have so much trouble…
i can also confuse them kind of with my hides etc etc

i just try to pay close attention wich the player is …when i see kk clones i just go in hide and obsver wich is the player ( 90% of time its the one jumping like an idiot) then boom dead

sry for my english

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Posted by: Zipzo.6753

Zipzo.6753

I’m sort of inclined to agree on the “fun” part", and I actually had a short conversation with a friend earlier on the matter.

Essentially, my point was that I understand the class, I don’t necessarily find it to be belligerently overpowered because I know how to beat them (occasionally, some mesmers are just god mode difficult – the good ones), but the real issue is that they really ruin the fun for anyone playing against them. It’s fun for the person playing the mesmer, which is good, but I’m willing to bet the % of players that actually enjoy fighting a mesmer inversely is much, much, much lower.

They are just legitimately not fun to actually fight, if I get in a game with too many mesmers I am inclined to just leave and join another room because it basically makes the match frustrating or annoying instead of fun. It has nothing to do with whether the class is OP or not…the class is just not fun to fight with because of having to deal with all the clones…

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Posted by: Erayse.1528

Erayse.1528

Mesmers really aren’t that hard to kill, you just need to pay attention and learn how to distinguish them from their clones. Like posted above, play one for a little while and you’ll have a much easier time doing this.

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Posted by: Aelona.8572

Aelona.8572

I thought the counter to mesmer was aoe

That’s the most effective against Phantasm builded Mesmers for sure.

Against full defensive Mesmers, and it’s where the class totally shine (all skills of defense) then you’ll have to think about how to

-Aelona / -Sygmaelle / -Ghinbi

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Posted by: Demonic Toys.7248

Demonic Toys.7248

As a mesmer, i fought an elementalist the other day who stayed in lightning attunment the entire time spamming his whip on my clones. He said “OMG OP Mesmer!”… actually, just garbage elemental. These “Mesmer OP” threads just show who is bad on the forums, which are visited by a tiny minority of the game’s pop. This is the biggest l2p issue in the game. You can mark the mesmer, but only a noob needs to. Clones don’t dodge, strafe, etc, and no competent player is making threads like this, because they always know which one is the mesmer. Btw, I play my mesmer less than my Necro (main) who wipes them with aoe, and engi. All 5 of my char’s are lvl 2 or 3 because I’m only interested in pvp, and I try to play them all each day. This game is in a good state balance wise and I hope Anet doesn’t screw it up listening to a vocal minority of baddies.

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Posted by: aGenda.2358

aGenda.2358

, but the real issue is that they really ruin the fun for anyone playing against them. It’s fun for the person playing the mesmer, which is good, but I’m willing to bet the % of players that actually enjoy fighting a mesmer inversely is much, much, much lower.

They are just legitimately not fun to actually fight, if I get in a game with too many mesmers I am inclined to just leave and join another room because it basically makes the match frustrating or annoying instead of fun. It has nothing to do with whether the class is OP or not…the class is just not fun to fight with because of having to deal with all the clones…

As a ‘god mode’ mesmer myself (well, i feel that way whenever i fight any class whatsoever), I also had the same reaction that fighting other mesmers is the most frustrating, boring and and annoying thing in the game. Even as a mesmer I hate fighting my class.

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Posted by: JoakimFA.4713

JoakimFA.4713

Dunno bout you, but I thought the whole concept of illusions was to confuse the enemy, so that they aren’t SUPPOSED to know how we play, and where we are.
We are masters of deception.

This is coming from a Greatsword Mesmer too.

Yoshioka [YUI] | Sea of Sorrows | Human Warrior. And a good looking one at that.
My Longbow tPvP Guide: http://tinyurl.com/Longbow-tPvP (out of date)

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Posted by: Slokidlol.6107

Slokidlol.6107

You say you don’t like to 1v1 mesmer, you do realize if you actually look AT the mesmer you are fighting it is quite obvious which one is real especially if you start off with no illusions. You can see when they switch places and port around. You need to train your eyes and keep them peeled, this is a bit more difficult in a group fight but the illusions are not as big of a deal then.

Honestly, take some time to see how things work before you complain. This game is not that difficult and while I do agree that mesmers can be ridiculous at times, in 1v1 they are really not that hard as long as you pay attention. I don’t want to see this game go to EZ mode because people CBA to learn mechanics and pay attention.

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Posted by: Prelude.3817

Prelude.3817

When we don’t know how the whole illusion thing works, Mesmers are OP.
When we understand it, they suck.

I think it has more to do with the mesmers you face:
When the mesmer sucks, you can easily spot the real one and torch him.
When the mesmer is good, “you’re already dead but you don’t know it yet”. Aoe or not, phantasm mesmer or not.

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Posted by: Slokidlol.6107

Slokidlol.6107

When we don’t know how the whole illusion thing works, Mesmers are OP.
When we understand it, they suck.

I think it has more to do with the mesmers you face:
When the mesmer sucks, you can easily spot the real one and torch him.
When the mesmer is good, “you’re already dead but you don’t know it yet”. Aoe or not, phantasm mesmer or not.

Bull, if the mesmer is good and you suckkitten yea you’re dead. If you are a lot better than the mesmer then yes you win. On equal footing you have a pretty good chance of winning if you can pay attention.

Hard to deal with =/= OP.

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Posted by: Ergo Proxy.6219

Ergo Proxy.6219

No decent mesmer relies upon clones to survive. If they do the first enemy they face who has the brains to use ctrl t will smash them.

If your having trouble finding the real mesmer its a personal problem.

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Posted by: Prelude.3817

Prelude.3817

When we don’t know how the whole illusion thing works, Mesmers are OP.
When we understand it, they suck.

I think it has more to do with the mesmers you face:
When the mesmer sucks, you can easily spot the real one and torch him.
When the mesmer is good, “you’re already dead but you don’t know it yet”. Aoe or not, phantasm mesmer or not.

Bull, if the mesmer is good and you suckkitten yea you’re dead. If you are a lot better than the mesmer then yes you win. On equal footing you have a pretty good chance of winning if you can pay attention.

Hard to deal with =/= OP.

No, you’ve misunderstood.
It’s not about your skill against his. It’s only about the mesmer mastering his own class or not.
It’s about what the mesmer is able to do at top level.
If the mesmer knows his tools, you won’t even scratch him.

Hopefully those are rare.

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Posted by: teviko.6049

teviko.6049

Mesmers maybe annoying as heck in PvP, and I feel for you. My main is a mesmer, but I sPvP with a ranger, and mesmers suck to fight against. they do (piercing arrow takes the who’s who out of mesmer fighting), but the mechanic mesmers operate on is critical for survival as a mesmer in PvE. You can’t take it away just because you don’t like it.

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Posted by: Nitha.9341

Nitha.9341

Thanks, plz add Arenas Deathmatch – Duels – New Scenarios/modality for battlegrounds – More specifics on forge craft .

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Posted by: Gigawatt.5217

Gigawatt.5217

If you think clones are the most dangerous thing a Mesmer brings to the table then you must have 25 stack of IRL confusion. xD

And the very idea that a lack of competence of the part of the player constitutes an imbalance on the part of the game is absolutely ridiculous.

Team Legacy Division 1A
Competitive sPvP (North America) http://www.twitch.tv/gigawattstudios

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Posted by: WhiteCrow.5310

WhiteCrow.5310

The only problem I have with Mesmers is the damage their clones/phantoms/illusions or whatever are capable of. I can spot the real one fine and focus him down, but there’s no need for the ridiculous damage their AI is capable of. I thought they were illusions, you know, things to confuse you, not a literal physical clone that can damage the hell out of you.

Concerns about HoT pre-order? Check here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

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Posted by: Aragiel.6132

Aragiel.6132

I agree with some points. Mainly with

- Mesmers are OP as long as you dont know the skill animatins / mechanic. Playing a mesmer highly improved my statistic against them. Now i know what is illusion and what are mesmer options. With this knowelage i can fight them with no problems.
- Mesmers will probably be out of metagame once people get to know how to counter it and will recognize the animations. On higher level of play there are better classes.

- lot of the points with PETS / – for that check this tread regadring PETS in sPVP
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-we-fighting-players-or-pets/
and maybe give it some love

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

OP seriously you dont have a clue, not an insult just the honest truth. Your post is about cookie cutter fotm phantasm specced mesmers. A shatter or condition build is way deadlier and alot harder to kill.

Clones are a dispossable source of damage/conditions. Every good mesmer never trys to confuse you with his clones because they assume that you already know whos the real one.

Seriously I play mesmer since bwe1 and I can assure your that mesmers are not a one trick pony that can easily be dealt with if you know how to counter it. If you know the class and play it for longer than 1 week you should realize that you can make builds that are more or less impossible to counter in a 1v1 scenario. Here is a simple, example: If you play a condition/power mesmer you cant just kill the phantasms and win because in the time you do that you get tons of confusion stack applied which forces you to make one of two bad decisions. You can take the confusion damage (which is really high btw) and kill the phantasms or do nothing, avoiding the condition damage, and get hurt by the phantasms (which still hit like a truck). If you add shatter into the mix you get a class that can deal with any situation a 1v1 throws at you.

TL/DR: NO DECENT MESMER CARES IF YOU SPOT THE RIGHT ONE.

(edited by Mayama.1854)

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Posted by: Gibon.1705

Gibon.1705

Mesmers only power is to cause chaos on battlefield. Take down phantasms – you take down 3/4 of mesmers dps. Now kill him. Also play at least 10matches as mesmer and you’d learn his weak sides. Same goes about thieves.
For now thieves and mesmers are FotM and ppl Q_Q about how strong they are. But to be honest they aren’t stronger than others because they are simply easier to counter than necro/warrior/ranger. If anything about mesmer should be nerfed is moa (still Time Warp is much better, just you dont realize it) and should get shorter duration AND shorter CD. Thief just got toned down.
I bet next FotM will be necro when ppl learn how to play him in PROPER way. This game is perfectly balanced. You just need to play and learn of class weaknes and strenght. Like in any other e-sport game like DotA…
And on the other hand AN shouldnt do any nerfs, mby just buff somehow eles and wariors other build than 100blades.

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Posted by: LittleBigAsura.6071

LittleBigAsura.6071

There’s no over powered or under powered class in Guild Wars 2. You can beat all classes and can be beaten by all the classes.

Fedd
Luxon [Lux]
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Posted by: Untouch.2541

Untouch.2541

Illusions look different than clones.
Clones are only useful for shattering and conditions.

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Posted by: Rusha.4725

Rusha.4725

Most of the time they are moving like a hyperactive guy, throwing skills like there is no end which makes them too easy to spot. Pros actually mimic the AI clones, lengthen the fight (which is a good thing for mesmers), finish you off slowly if you’re desperate enough to die.

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Posted by: RamzaBehoulve.5640

RamzaBehoulve.5640

Even if you understand the Mesmer and you can counter him, chances are that your build is now vulnerable to someone else instead.

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Posted by: DeathByCactus.3954

DeathByCactus.3954

I play a Mesmer. I don’t lose to thieves & I don’t lose to other mesmers. Not in s or t pvp. Why? Thieves r lol. HS fails and they run to restock on their spam dots. They come back, you know it… just make them fail again. Profit on point defense.

Mesmers? If you can’t figure out which Mesmer is the real Mesmer in the fight, I pity you. Clones don’t move. Players do. I watched this Mesmer the other day, he could NOT figure out which one I was… I just railed on him forever. He looked so confused.

The funny thing is I used 1 clone & two Phantasms with lots of stealth. Was great.

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Posted by: Baroic.1380

Baroic.1380

I play a mesmer in spvp and tbh up until last weekend in most 1v1 2v1 even 3v1 fights i was wiping the floor with other classes but i have to say this is all changing fast, more and more im comming up against good players that can counter my skills fast and leave me on the defensive or the floor.(i welcome the challange)
I also play a ranger and warrior in spvp and can counter a mesmer pritty fast and effective, i may not be able to get away as easy when s**t hits the fan but hey thats another thread.
The damage from a mesmer is not epic when you know how to deal with them and alot of this qq falls under l2p sorry but thats just the way it is.
Iv tried out all classes in spvp and each have skills that could be called OP.
The class might need some alteration but does have a place in gw2 just maybe pick one up and see how they work before wanting them wiped from the game.

If ANet ever alows 3rd party programes my bet is the first one to be a top rated download will be a big huge red arrow over a mesmers head then it will be a cd watch for thiefs adds and so on till pvp becomes boring and stale.

Its very early days for all classes and i for one welcome Anet not running in with the nerf stick for any class until fully researched.