Guild Wars 2

MAN.9046:

this may or may not be relevant, but leeto’s almost at legend with an f2p core necro (a new account) since his main got 2-week-banned

Some core specs still works like Shadow Arts Thief (or P/P, it works fine against Reapers and DH), Shatter Mes, Bunker Guard and Condi Necro.

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

azyume.6321:

Aereniel.7356:

Just a friendly tip regarding carrying, not just for you specifically but to everybody in general. The most efficient carry profession/role is dependent on the level of play you are in. Please be aware that I’m talking generalities here, and everything I say might not apply to every single individual match. Support is not a very good carry in low-level games, because support is an enabler role. Even if you play like an elder god and support the heck out of your team mates, they will just continue to be potatoes and die left and right. All that space and time that you provide is a wasted effort and does not win games, because your inept team mates will find creative ways to f-up. Support becomes extremely valuable in mid tiers and higher up, when you can actually count on your team mates to make plays to a certain extent.

My advice for low to mid tiers is to play something like a revenant, necro or engi, because you can kill people, win team fights or carry side nodes. Good support players shine higher up, but in low-level games it’s an exercise in futility.

+1

Also, a support should never, ever be by themselves unless is for brief seconds for the team swap positions.

Support =/= Bunker

The support is actually doing their team a disservice by dueling or holding a point against 2. If they are with the revenant or reaper or both would shine and most likely cap the point instead of stalling things up.

But I won convincingly a few games with my druid spending lots of time at home while being equipped with protect me, search and rescue, and mender’s amulet which has a squishy DPS/healing stat set.

Its not about being able to carry EVERY game, you realistically cant, its about playing to win to carry MOST games

Saying the advice is invalid because it doesnt work 100% of the time is idiotic, but thats the response being given over and over “its impossible to carry 4 terrible players every game” ok, stop with the hyperbole saying ALL your games are unwinable/uncarryiable, using pessimistic excuses isnt going to help you win, people would rather dismiss good advice and play the victim. Because taking the advice and using it would require for them to acknowledge that they were wrong in their current approach
And if you really cant carry ANY games, then there’s your answer, you ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, GET BETTER!!! But of course, the ego fueled raggers will always take any kind of critique on their skill as a hostile personal insult.

How not to carry SoloQ by Lord FullofKittens

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

This. Beautifully put.

Kayberz.5346:

Its not about being able to carry EVERY game, you realistically cant, its about playing to win to carry MOST games

Saying the advice is invalid because it doesnt work 100% of the time is idiotic, but thats the response being given over and over “its impossible to carry 4 terrible players every game” ok, stop with the hyperbole saying ALL your games are unwinable/uncarryiable, using pessimistic excuses isnt going to help you win, people would rather dismiss good advice and play the victim. Because taking the advice and using it would require for them to acknowledge that they were wrong in their current approach
And if you really cant carry ANY games, then there’s your answer, you ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, GET BETTER!!! But of course, the ego fueled raggers will always take any kind of critique on their skill as a hostile personal insult.

Which will largely depend on how heavy your load is… It is true having a self defeating attitude won’t help but being unrealistic is just as bad and set you in a path to failure that will lessen your ability to see positively. And so on…

LordHelseth is overrated. All he does is spamming cheesy mesmer tricks like portals and double moa.

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

Can I have a vid and a proof of the account being low MMR while being used in the context of the current algorithm plz?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

Can I have a vid and a proof of the account being low MMR while being used in the context of the current algorithm plz?

Having low win ratio?

warbignime.4610:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

Can I have a vid and a proof of the account being low MMR while being used in the context of the current algorithm plz?

Having low win ratio?

Yeah, sure. In the context if this algorithm of course since before that it was not pairing ppl the same way at all.

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

I don’t watch twitch streams. I would have to watch the videos to make a comment, and I don’t intend on watching hours of stream.
There are other factors to in this scenario. Did he communicate with his teammates? Did his teammates know he was smurfing? How many of his teammates were following his direction? A chicken with a head will run straighter than a headless chicken.
Did he 1v3? 1v4? 1v5? Even if he is a professional player, I doubt he could 1v5, maybe even 1v3.

Secondly, using an outlier like a professional player to try and reject the average is simply bad statistics.

You don’t have to kill people 1v3 or 1v4 to carry a game.
You can carry games with a good map awareness and by taking advantage of bad rotations of the opponent.
You can also contribute to the win significantly if you win your 1v1 and juke your enemies 2v1 and so on. Especally, in the lower division where you face a lot of unexperienced players it is so easy to carry games.

Also the definition of “average” always depends on different point of views. Some people consider players who spend most of their time in pve “average” and some other people consider pvpers who just can’t compete with top-players “average”

nativity.3057:

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

I don’t watch twitch streams. I would have to watch the videos to make a comment, and I don’t intend on watching hours of stream.
There are other factors to in this scenario. Did he communicate with his teammates? Did his teammates know he was smurfing? How many of his teammates were following his direction? A chicken with a head will run straighter than a headless chicken.
Did he 1v3? 1v4? 1v5? Even if he is a professional player, I doubt he could 1v5, maybe even 1v3.

Secondly, using an outlier like a professional player to try and reject the average is simply bad statistics.

Yep spot on similar to what I said above. He’s a pro player apart from all the other factors involved maybe he can carry on a low mmr account but he’s still one of the best players in the game, the players affected by the matchmaking are mainly average players. They aren’t equal.

morrolan.9608:

nativity.3057:

warbignime.4610:

nativity.3057:

Why do people use this argument to belittle those who complain about matchmaking?
This kind of logic would make sense in games like LoL or Dota because in those games, when you get kills, you progressively get stronger due to item purchases. That means yes, one person can solo wipe the enemy team because they are exponentially stronger in terms of stats than the enemy.
This is parallel to EoTM or WvW, where level 80s (+/- elite specs) can solo wipe rally bots up-levels.

But it doesn’t work for PvP, where your stats are constant. Even if you get a kill, you won’t be able to kill them faster in the next encounter.
To carry, you should be able to play 1v2 and win? Again, it’s easier in LoL to double kill than it is in GW2. You both have the same number distribution of stats, so even if you play perfectly (which would award you a win in a 1v1 situation not counting class counters), in a 1v2 situation, your enemy must play worse than you. It gets increasingly hard to 1v3, 1v4, and nearly impossible to 1v5.

Say you can 1v2, that means you now rely on your teammates to win the 4v3. That’s not carrying at all, that means you need to have competent teammates.
Not to mention not having competent enemies who can also 1v2.

Then how do you explain LordHelseth winning non stop with low mmr account? He did that, twice with two different low mmr account already to prove his point.

I don’t watch twitch streams. I would have to watch the videos to make a comment, and I don’t intend on watching hours of stream.
There are other factors to in this scenario. Did he communicate with his teammates? Did his teammates know he was smurfing? How many of his teammates were following his direction? A chicken with a head will run straighter than a headless chicken.
Did he 1v3? 1v4? 1v5? Even if he is a professional player, I doubt he could 1v5, maybe even 1v3.

Secondly, using an outlier like a professional player to try and reject the average is simply bad statistics.

Yep spot on similar to what I said above. He’s a pro player apart from all the other factors involved maybe he can carry on a low mmr account but he’s still one of the best players in the game, the players affected by the matchmaking are mainly average players. They aren’t equal.

At some point it means they are supposed to be where they are for me. Only noobs/average players at best are still in emerald/sapphire. It would be nice if they could upload a vid from their match so we can see both sides but.. that wont happen for obvious reason.

Typical. The people that benefited will DEFEND it, the people that did not will OPPOSE it.

Regardless, this is a flaw in design.

dominik.9721:

You don’t have to kill people 1v3 or 1v4 to carry a game.
You can carry games with a good map awareness and by taking advantage of bad rotations of the opponent.

If you can do that alone when 4 other players go to die on chieftain on Forest (true story), then the other side didn’t have bad rotations. They had atrocious ones.

dominik.9721:

You can also contribute to the win significantly if you win your 1v1 and juke your enemies 2v1 and so on. Especally, in the lower division where you face a lot of unexperienced players it is so easy to carry games.

Yes, you can, but what doesn that help when your allies die 2v1, or even 3v1? (seen that too).

Carrying stops being a solution in soloq when the system starts putting you with terrible players. The only solution that does work seems to be to go with a team (even teaming with just one other person helps immensely, while 3-manning completely changes the game).

oh my most handsome mesmuh eveah makes my banana hamick tight tight.

He nails the point at minute 4 with the common gw2 player mentality

“If game results in loss its because I was placed on kittenty team but if game results in win its because I carried the team”.

echo.2053:

oh my most handsome mesmuh eveah makes my banana hamick tight tight.

He nails the point at minute 4 with the common gw2 player mentality

“If game results in loss its because I was placed on kittenty team but if game results in win its because I carried the team”.

Sums up the pvp forum.

warbignime.4610:

echo.2053:

oh my most handsome mesmuh eveah makes my banana hamick tight tight.

He nails the point at minute 4 with the common gw2 player mentality

“If game results in loss its because I was placed on kittenty team but if game results in win its because I carried the team”.

Sums up the pvp forum.

No it doesn’t actually.

JTGuevara.9018:

Typical. The people that benefited will DEFEND it, the people that did not will OPPOSE it.

Regardless, this is a flaw in design.

But i dont defend it. Its a fact. I was pretty much in winstreak till sapphire tier 3 where hell started and had really terrible teammates till ruby t2. Eventually i carried this kitten out and now im back on my track. If both teams are terrible you should carry it and climp up.. if you cant carry well..

morrolan.9608:

warbignime.4610:

echo.2053:

oh my most handsome mesmuh eveah makes my banana hamick tight tight.

He nails the point at minute 4 with the common gw2 player mentality

“If game results in loss its because I was placed on kittenty team but if game results in win its because I carried the team”.

Sums up the pvp forum.

No it doesn’t actually.

sure we could include:

-Team had x number of specific class which = class op

-rando commando player stating how comp players don’t use class x which means it underpowered or using class means its op

Majority of players abused rev last tourny inflating what they believe their perceptions of what their abilities were, now only to blame the system.

of course there will be denial just like McDonald’s nobody wants to admit eating it, yet 6 billion hamburgers are sold daily….

Lol, first the argument was
“No matter how good you are you cant carry a team of 4 bad players”
Shown proof that its completely possible, argument changes to
“Well hes like one of the best players in the game, you cant expect the “average” player to be able to do that"

Lol. The argument still stands, if you cant carry your teams consistently enough to get out of emerald/sapphire, YOU ARNT GOOD ENOUGH. “YET”.

How do you do it if your teammates lose every fight?

Laserbolt.6731:

How do you do it if your teammates lose every fight?

Are you just going to keep listing off strawman arguments to continue to dismiss the advice?
Or do you actually have proof that 100% of the matches you have that your teammates lose every single fight?

I’m not going to run through everything HS covered, but essentially.

- addresses issues encountered by people who genuinely set out to ‘carry’ teams – that’s exclusively a high level player mentality however, certainly not applicable to newer players.

- makes a valid point about player skill and gameplay ‘goals’. Competitive gaming is about YOU improving. Not fancy gear or titles, and anyone who only seeks the latter will never be happy in this environment.

From an idealistic perspective I’d prefer barriers of progression through leagues too, however my only concerns are tied to the averse commercials of doing this to a community of mostly MMO ‘carebears’.

Burtnik.5218:

JTGuevara.9018:

Typical. The people that benefited will DEFEND it, the people that did not will OPPOSE it.

Regardless, this is a flaw in design.

But i dont defend it. Its a fact. I was pretty much in winstreak till sapphire tier 3 where hell started and had really terrible teammates till ruby t2. Eventually i carried this kitten out and now im back on my track. If both teams are terrible you should carry it and climp up.. if you cant carry well..

I’m going to say this loud and clear. SKILL DOES NOT MATTER WITH THIS SYSTEM.

No matter how “good” or “bad” you are, the system gives you a false sense of your abilities.

TO THIS DAY, deniers have blown nothing but hot air.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

I myself carried quite a few ppl on my bunker ele. I still do. However, there are limits. You immediately see the difference when those you play with need babysitting or they don’t. If you can’t tell that difference you might not be as good as you think you are.

A few things,

1- i dont hold myself as high of a level player as ESL Pros or people who say they can carry. All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

2- There is no such thing as a ele carry build. You are a support shout player or you are running some hybrid build which means you better be great at +1 or winning 1 vs 1 quickly otherwise you are the down fall to your own team.

kdaddy.5431:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

I myself carried quite a few ppl on my bunker ele. I still do. However, there are limits. You immediately see the difference when those you play with need babysitting or they don’t. If you can’t tell that difference you might not be as good as you think you are.

A few things,

1- i dont hold myself as high of a level player as ESL Pros or people who say they can carry. All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

2- There is no such thing as a ele carry build. You are a support shout player or you are running some hybrid build which means you better be great at +1 or winning 1 vs 1 quickly otherwise you are the down fall to your own team.

There is no such thing as an ele carry build but that doesn’t prevent anyone to do their best to carry anyway. How do you call successfully keeping several players on you to free your teammates? How do you call keeping alive bombers despite the enemy and your so called partners wandering after butterflies?

Is it easy and always possible? No. I never pretended this but it did happen several times with the build I run. I even had opponent congratulating me for, wait for it, carrying my team so hard by enduring many on my back while keeping/contesting long enough to make a difference despite all going against me.

But I digress, what do I know of these things… I’m just a lowly ruby who think he is better than he actually is…

Yasi.9065:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

Do you even listen to yourself?
You smurfed, abused bunkermeta and played premade vs solos and won because of that. So you basically cheated. Played against players that are NOT near your ladder position but FAR below (smurfing), you played as a kittening team against solos and you abused kittened up balancing.
And thats what you decide made you good and those in emerald average.

Newsflash, the only thing that made you… is pathetic.

Whate are you talking about? We didnt smurf anything smart guy. The people i played with all made it to ruby. No one was on other freshly made accounts, we played it as a actual team with people ranging with various skill levels.

We played ESL teams and played alot of premades. This season we have played 3 times and have won 2 and we were only a 3 man group facing full premades. All of us playing non meta builds and twice we faced a 2 rev- 1 ele, 1 engy, 1 necro premades.

Do i hear myself, yeah i do. I do think the Match making is good this season? Not really but it was better then season 1 match making. It wasnt fair for people like myself to have to face full premade ESL teams while i was still in Amber. The first patch of the PvP season many of the top players like helseth, were streaming him solo queing and facing a full car crash team while he was in Amber. Was it fair that some of the crappiest players in the game had higher division ranks the best best players in the game? And those players are grinding solo que?

I just want to say that many of the threads are cry threads. People talking about people going far is the reason they lost, no its not. People saying we have a thief, warrior or they have to many necros, no its not. Its probably you and you want to blame something.

Is MM broken? No it not, the best players should be playing the best players but when you have a league system thats based off of moving up divisions for rewards, there are going to be problems.

kdaddy.5431:

Yasi.9065:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

Do you even listen to yourself?
You smurfed, abused bunkermeta and played premade vs solos and won because of that. So you basically cheated. Played against players that are NOT near your ladder position but FAR below (smurfing), you played as a kittening team against solos and you abused kittened up balancing.
And thats what you decide made you good and those in emerald average.

Newsflash, the only thing that made you… is pathetic.

Whate are you talking about? We didnt smurf anything smart guy. The people i played with all made it to ruby. No one was on other freshly made accounts, we played it as a actual team with people ranging with various skill levels.

We played ESL teams and played alot of premades. This season we have played 3 times and have won 2 and we were only a 3 man group facing full premades. All of us playing non meta builds and twice we faced a 2 rev- 1 ele, 1 engy, 1 necro premades.

Do i hear myself, yeah i do. I do think the Match making is good this season? Not really but it was better then season 1 match making. It wasnt fair for people like myself to have to face full premade ESL teams while i was still in Amber. The first patch of the PvP season many of the top players like helseth, were streaming him solo queing and facing a full car crash team while he was in Amber. Was it fair that some of the crappiest players in the game had higher division ranks the best best players in the game? And those players are grinding solo que?

I just want to say that many of the threads are cry threads. People talking about people going far is the reason they lost, no its not. People saying we have a thief, warrior or they have to many necros, no its not. Its probably you and you want to blame something.

Is MM broken? No it not, the best players should be playing the best players but when you have a league system thats based off of moving up divisions for rewards, there are going to be problems.

No offense but what you say is rather light on argumentation. People have provide legitimate arguments as to what was problematic with MM and I don’t begin to see the shadow of a counter argument. Expressing a disagreement is nothing more than an opinion. Giving your case as an example, like many have done, merely an anecdote.

As for people abusing last season they would indeed enjoy an advantage this season that they, in all honesty, do not deserve. You are rewarded for higher MMR and punished for having a lower one with what they system give you.

Not everyone who “complained” are condemning players going far or those playing non-meta (I would be a hypocrite).

Here’s what I had to live with over the last few days:

-Thieves not decapping but rather rallybotting in mid fight like 10+ times in a match
-Warrior running straight to gates in legacy at beginning and opening them…. both of course… then starts rageing because he gets killed doing it… and runs back to do it again, pronouncing proudly that he carries because he keeps 2+ “busy” (for about 30 seconds until EP runs out and he bleeds out)
-Druid standing on hill to the sides of mid legacy, using staff1, staff2… all the time (probably thought he did good dmg there)
-Mesmers without portals
-Necro dieing to cleric tempest in under 2 minutes (I didnt even try killing him…. he just died)
-Bad builds like FT scrapper (scrapper! not old school non-hot account)
-Mindless mid running and insta dieing – too often to actually count professions… but necros seem to be those with most problems with tunnelvision
-AFK

Thats only the worst. I got those players at one point or another on my team. Sometimes only one… sometimes three. Only one every three games they are on enemy team.

Now tell me how to carry such bad decisions… and no 1v4 is actually not a solution, do the math please.

Yasi.9065:

Here’s what I had to live with over the last few days:

-Thieves not decapping but rather rallybotting in mid fight like 10+ times in a match
-Warrior running straight to gates in legacy at beginning and opening them…. both of course… then starts rageing because he gets killed doing it… and runs back to do it again, pronouncing proudly that he carries because he keeps 2+ “busy” (for about 30 seconds until EP runs out and he bleeds out)
-Druid standing on hill to the sides of mid legacy, using staff1, staff2… all the time (probably thought he did good dmg there)
-Mesmers without portals
-Necro dieing to cleric tempest in under 2 minutes (I didnt even try killing him…. he just died)
-Bad builds like FT scrapper (scrapper! not old school non-hot account)
-Mindless mid running and insta dieing – too often to actually count professions… but necros seem to be those with most problems with tunnelvision
-AFK

Thats only the worst. I got those players at one point or another on my team. Sometimes only one… sometimes three. Only one every three games they are on enemy team.

Now tell me how to carry such bad decisions… and no 1v4 is actually not a solution, do the math please.

Add Rev stacking boons with more than one necro in the other team, ending in getting us killed with boon corruption.

Astralporing.1957:

dominik.9721:

You don’t have to kill people 1v3 or 1v4 to carry a game.
You can carry games with a good map awareness and by taking advantage of bad rotations of the opponent.

If you can do that alone when 4 other players go to die on chieftain on Forest (true story), then the other side didn’t have bad rotations. They had atrocious ones.

dominik.9721:

You can also contribute to the win significantly if you win your 1v1 and juke your enemies 2v1 and so on. Especally, in the lower division where you face a lot of unexperienced players it is so easy to carry games.

Yes, you can, but what doesn that help when your allies die 2v1, or even 3v1? (seen that too).

Carrying stops being a solution in soloq when the system starts putting you with terrible players. The only solution that does work seems to be to go with a team (even teaming with just one other person helps immensely, while 3-manning completely changes the game).

And again you ignore the fact that you also play AGAINST terrible players in low divisions. It’s up to you to make the difference.
When I was in emerald, I killed people 1v2 while my team died and complained about me why I would lose the cap outnumbered. Still I have won every single game, simply because the enemies have been as bad as my teammates.

kdaddy.5431:

All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

Then why do you think you deserve to consistently win in soloq? You have to carry to have more than 50% win ratio in soloq.

Helseth is arrogant, but the fact is that almost every game he loses, after he has said the mandatory “my team mates were trash”, he talks about everything he could have done better to win the game. And that’s probably one of the reason he’s a top player (not because he’s a pro: he’s on a sabbatical). Instead of always complaining about your team mates, try to get better, and to carry better: build momentum (play a mobile build), never expect your team mates to win their 1v1s, make sure every second of your time you make an amazing play, and you’ll see that not only your win ratio will improve, but you’ll also have more fun playing.

why can’t people just accept that theyre in their appropiate division they belong to. i literally went out of emerald on alt account in 1hour with just soloq

im 100% sure that all average players are diamond now and below average players are ruby and lower, emerald must have some 2man cap close people so i don’t see how anyone has problems winning those

even a few of my pve friends that never touch pvp are diamond and all they did was roll a strong meta build like power rev or condi mesmer which are kitten easy to play so yeah there is your secret, roll meta build dont be a complete kitten and you’ll progress

Nope. None of that is true.

dominik.9721:

And again you ignore the fact that you also play AGAINST terrible players in low divisions.

If that only were true. Unfortunately the game does not match you against equal players, and there’s still visible skill difference even in amber that’s big enough to matter. Probably will still be even on the last day of the season.

Hint: if you start playing now with low mmr, you won’t be matched with new, unexperienced players (their mmr starts at average). You will be matched with players that since the beginning of the season has not gained even a single pip. Some of my friends ended up in that situation, and the only solution turned out to be to teamq them out of mmr hell.

dominik.9721:

It’s up to you to make the difference.
When I was in emerald, I killed people 1v2 while my team died and complained about me why I would lose the cap outnumbered. Still I have won every single game, simply because the enemies have been as bad as my teammates.

Then you were lucky, because that meant you didn’t end up in the “designated losers” team.

Sorel.4870:

never expect your team mates to win their 1v1s

When in mmr hell, you can’t expect them to win 2v1, and even 3v1 are iffy (because they may just keep rallybotting that one defender. Or fight it out for 3 minutes, and then forget to cap once they (barely) won).

You guys sound like people in mobas complaining about elo hell because they don’t realize that they are bad themselves.
If you insist on getting thrown onto the worse team because of your mmr consider this:
– Starting mmr is, according to an official post in another complaint thread, around ‘average’
- why did you start with low mmr in the first place?
- at one point i lost 7 games in a row in ruby and guess what. The matches actually got easier and not harder, because i was facing worse opponents
- from ones own point of view it might look as if one did well when inreality one is doing terribly. E.g. If you keep successfully +1ing fights that dont need the +1 (you are getting kills but you should actually be somewhere, where you are needed)
- your division last season and your former winrate mean absolutely nothing as the mm matched you against your own skill level. A terrible player could reach legendary by beating other terrible players.

dominik.9721:

Astralporing.1957:

dominik.9721:

You don’t have to kill people 1v3 or 1v4 to carry a game.
You can carry games with a good map awareness and by taking advantage of bad rotations of the opponent.

If you can do that alone when 4 other players go to die on chieftain on Forest (true story), then the other side didn’t have bad rotations. They had atrocious ones.

dominik.9721:

You can also contribute to the win significantly if you win your 1v1 and juke your enemies 2v1 and so on. Especally, in the lower division where you face a lot of unexperienced players it is so easy to carry games.

Yes, you can, but what doesn that help when your allies die 2v1, or even 3v1? (seen that too).

Carrying stops being a solution in soloq when the system starts putting you with terrible players. The only solution that does work seems to be to go with a team (even teaming with just one other person helps immensely, while 3-manning completely changes the game).

And again you ignore the fact that you also play AGAINST terrible players in low divisions. It’s up to you to make the difference.
When I was in emerald, I killed people 1v2 while my team died and complained about me why I would lose the cap outnumbered. Still I have won every single game, simply because the enemies have been as bad as my teammates.

And again you ignore the fact that in current system your chances of playing against BETTER players are infinitely higher than against worse players.

Erzian.5218:

- Starting mmr is, according to an official post in another complaint thread, around ‘average’ <- yes, for new players only
- why did you start with low mmr in the first place? <- some people were matched with ESL teams at the start of season. Others didn’t know how the matchmaking will work out and just tried to get the profession achievements on classes they were unfamiliar with. Some ended up with lowered mmr due to, again, trying professional achieves, or due to the problems tied with that season’s matchmaking, which also wasn’t that good.
- at one point i lost 7 games in a row in ruby and guess what. The matches actually got easier and not harder, because i was facing worse opponents <-that’s not how the system works, your mmr in no way affects the level of your opponents. It only affects your teammates. I guess you just got lucky
- from ones own point of view it might look as if one did well when inreality one is doing terribly. E.g. If you keep successfully +1ing fights that dont need the +1 (you are getting kills but you should actually be somewhere, where you are needed) <-of course… after all in such games you are likely needed on all 3 points at the same time. That means that no matter you do, you will also be needed somewhere else
- your division last season and your former winrate mean absolutely nothing as the mm matched you against your own skill level. A terrible player could reach legendary by beating other terrible players. <-true. not that it has anything to do with the current situation (except for the fact that horrible people still can reach diamond by coasting on the backs of better players, if they started this season with lucky matchups or at above average mmr).

So, you were saying?

Erzian.5218:

You guys sound like people in mobas complaining about elo hell because they don’t realize that they are bad themselves.
If you insist on getting thrown onto the worse team because of your mmr consider this:
– Starting mmr is, according to an official post in another complaint thread, around ‘average’
- why did you start with low mmr in the first place?
- at one point i lost 7 games in a row in ruby and guess what. The matches actually got easier and not harder, because i was facing worse opponents
- from ones own point of view it might look as if one did well when inreality one is doing terribly. E.g. If you keep successfully +1ing fights that dont need the +1 (you are getting kills but you should actually be somewhere, where you are needed)
- your division last season and your former winrate mean absolutely nothing as the mm matched you against your own skill level. A terrible player could reach legendary by beating other terrible players.

There are several reasons as to why an exp player can have average MMR. For my part, like I already said in other posts, I like to try stuff even in rank and I always had a tendency to go against the meta. Winning at all cost was never my fun. Winning with what I want to play is. That being said, despite doing good with these builds this had an impact on my MMR last season and this one until I finally gave in and start to play my cheesemancer.

Now regardless of the fact you think I deserve my fate, do we agree that being paired with new players for someone like me can be a problem? That my MMR is not exactly a good way to evaluate my skill relative to those I’m paired with and that it can lead to incredibly frustrating matches?

When you say that at one point you lost 7 games in a row in ruby and it got easier you are trying to tell us that your unique case is representative of the problem that people seek to address. Now, unless your MMR was average or lower and the pool of available players was the same why should it be representative? Can we please stop with this kind of worthless anecdotes please?

This “if you were that good you wouldn’t be stuck where you are” mantra is really annoying and frankly dumb in many cases. Not all, but many. Before judging people try to at least keep an open mind and not immediately assume they are just trying to get handouts. Maybe they are on to something. If what they are after bothers you, try to ask yourself what is it that bothers you about what is said. It usually lead to better knowledge about self.

Not to mention at the developers conference this week ANet said they were “well aware that there are some frustrating matchups” and they hope to do something to alleviate that in Season 3.

As usual, the truth lies somewhere between the extremes of “everything is fine, it’s you that sucks” and “I am fine, it’s the matchmaking that sucks”.

Erzian.5218:

- your division last season and your former winrate mean absolutely nothing as the mm matched you against your own skill level. A terrible player could reach legendary by beating other terrible players.

Wrong!!! The system only uses your MMR to place you in a team; hence, your MMR is not used to find your opponents. Ergo, you can ended up being team up with 4 other low/high MMR players vs another team with 5 high/low MMR players.

Laserbolt.6731:

As usual, the truth lies somewhere between the extremes of “everything is fine, it’s you that sucks” and “I am fine, it’s the matchmaking that sucks”.

Please stop making sense immediately. I’m 97.8% sure the forum rules stipulate that any and all discussion on the PvP seasons should only include passive-aggressive victim mentality or tin foil hat match making algorithm diatribes. You’ll get infracted if you start bringing common sense in here.

I actually found that useful.

I mean I already understood the concept of snowballing of course. But he makes a good point about just how important it is in soloq. Especially the first fight and what you decide to do to get it started. How you really can’t hesitate even a second. Also depending on your class and role and your team mates and enemies HOW you should carry.

I don’t like how MM is, and I am not being matched where I should be. But I’ve also realized I am not as good as I thought I was and could be doing more to carry.

Aereniel.7356:

Please stop making sense immediately. I’m 97.8% sure the forum rules stipulate that any and all discussion on the PvP seasons should only include passive-aggressive victim mentality or tin foil hat match making algorithm diatribes. You’ll get infracted if you start bringing common sense in here.

lol! +1

So true…

Erzian.5218:

You guys sound like people in mobas complaining about elo hell because they don’t realize that they are bad themselves.
If you insist on getting thrown onto the worse team because of your mmr consider this:
– Starting mmr is, according to an official post in another complaint thread, around ‘average’
- why did you start with low mmr in the first place?
- at one point i lost 7 games in a row in ruby and guess what. The matches actually got easier and not harder, because i was facing worse opponents
- from ones own point of view it might look as if one did well when inreality one is doing terribly. E.g. If you keep successfully +1ing fights that dont need the +1 (you are getting kills but you should actually be somewhere, where you are needed)
- your division last season and your former winrate mean absolutely nothing as the mm matched you against your own skill level. A terrible player could reach legendary by beating other terrible players.

They dont sound like it, this is exactly what this is.

Sorel.4870:

kdaddy.5431:

All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

Then why do you think you deserve to consistently win in soloq? You have to carry to have more than 50% win ratio in soloq.

Helseth is arrogant, but the fact is that almost every game he loses, after he has said the mandatory “my team mates were trash”, he talks about everything he could have done better to win the game. And that’s probably one of the reason he’s a top player (not because he’s a pro: he’s on a sabbatical). Instead of always complaining about your team mates, try to get better, and to carry better: build momentum (play a mobile build), never expect your team mates to win their 1v1s, make sure every second of your time you make an amazing play, and you’ll see that not only your win ratio will improve, but you’ll also have more fun playing.

If you are asking me personally its because i play warrior most of the time and my fights are quick.

It takes about 15-20 sec to see who wins the fight vs me. So far ive been very good at winning my fights vs all classes. I have good mobility (not great) also allows me to join a bigger fight and help win that and contest the point i originally won. In amber and emerald i was able to win alot of 1 vs 2. This is my most recent pic of my last 10 games.

Yasi.9065:

dominik.9721:

Astralporing.1957:

dominik.9721:

You don’t have to kill people 1v3 or 1v4 to carry a game.
You can carry games with a good map awareness and by taking advantage of bad rotations of the opponent.

If you can do that alone when 4 other players go to die on chieftain on Forest (true story), then the other side didn’t have bad rotations. They had atrocious ones.

dominik.9721:

You can also contribute to the win significantly if you win your 1v1 and juke your enemies 2v1 and so on. Especally, in the lower division where you face a lot of unexperienced players it is so easy to carry games.

Yes, you can, but what doesn that help when your allies die 2v1, or even 3v1? (seen that too).

Carrying stops being a solution in soloq when the system starts putting you with terrible players. The only solution that does work seems to be to go with a team (even teaming with just one other person helps immensely, while 3-manning completely changes the game).

And again you ignore the fact that you also play AGAINST terrible players in low divisions. It’s up to you to make the difference.
When I was in emerald, I killed people 1v2 while my team died and complained about me why I would lose the cap outnumbered. Still I have won every single game, simply because the enemies have been as bad as my teammates.

And again you ignore the fact that in current system your chances of playing against BETTER players are infinitely higher than against worse players.

I didn’t say you wouldn’t play against better players, I said you play against terrible players – meaning terrible players are better than you and your team. Fact of the matter is that 99% of Amber/Emerald players are terrible and there is nothing to discuss about this. As people mentioned earlier even pve friends who play pvp 7 days a year are already out of those divisions.