Guild Wars 2

Guys, get real.
It is impossible that such a complex game is balanced after 1 month from the official release, also considering that only few changes were made in this period.

People who are saying “It’s ok, everything is balanced” just have no clue of what balance really is.

The balance is decent.
Everyone makes it out to be horrible.

They do not know what balance is.

That’s the truth.

“I simply think the real problem is people are not trying to learn and get better”

While I agree with this, would you not say that there are certain classes that require more practice and learning to deal with than others? This is a form of power in the early stages of a game and I’d argue an edge throughout.

A Warrior spining towards you with a giant sword screams “look out!” Whereas a Guardian with a tiny little icon on him and some glowy effects might leave you saying “what the hell is Retaliation?” when you’re dead from your own burst. Or learning what Mesmer clones and Phantasms do. Or how to deal with a Thief disappearing, stunning you or any of a number of things. Yes you can learn to deal with it but it’s still a higher level of skill needed than it is to say “Giant spinning Warrior, move” “Ranger shooting fast, dodge”

All that is on top of the actual class skills and abilities. I dont think there is any question some classes are a bit stronger than others atm, and that is exacerbated by the fact that they also require more knowledge and experience to deal with. At the same time some of the classes need a bit of love on a particular weapon or mechanic.

So yeah no class is outrageously overpowered. Yes people need to L2P but lets acknowledge some have situationaladvantages and some require more l2p than others.

sorrow.2364:

People who are saying “It’s ok, everything is balanced” just have no clue of what balance really is.

it is the same as the people who are saying"omg this game is all imbalanced, worst pvp ever", because they have no clue of what pvp really is.

Dashel.8056:

So yeah no class is outrageously overpowered. Yes people need to L2P but lets acknowledge some have situationaladvantages and some require more l2p than others.

This man speaks the truth.

Some have situational advantages. Thieves are too good underwater.

Mesmers are too good for treb repairs.

Stuff like this.

I agree with OP completely. A handful of players are responsible for most of the thief, guardian, mesmer herpkittenposts- if you frequent this forum, you know who they are. They all just seem like sore losers who got outplayed. Maybe a better matchmaking system that pairs up people of equal skill level would have prevented some of these emo nerf posts? I’m glad Anet is taking their time with this, as most of the people who I know and have pvp’d with across multiple games think things are fine the way the are. Even the much cried about Necromancer, which I mainly play now, could at most benefit from 1 or 2 minor cd reductions-no major balancing required at all.

Ive never played a mmo with such balanced pvp its awesome! (no I’m not being sarcastic here.) i hope arenanet wont listen to these new players and bend the whole system out of shape, and all the whining about elementalist and necromancer? get real what does elementalist got which other classes don’t? a very high ranged damage use it properly. what does necromancer have? high condition damage and a army on its disposal they are fine.

There are a few abilities that are very overpowered.

The Thief #5 skill, chained with dodge and stealth, makes it very easy to defend a point against incredible odds like 1v3vSharks.

The Elementalist Elite, Whirlpool or whatever, is ridiculously strong underwater.

Rika.7249:

The balance is decent.
Everyone makes it out to be horrible.

They do not know what balance is.

That’s the truth.

That’s not the truth. As I said before, ArenaNet took a lot of time to fully balance Guild Wars 1 and, trust me, they have nerfed some skills that were way less effective that what is going around this meta.
It’s normal that when the game is out for a short period of time, PvP is totally unbalanced. ArenaNet knows it and I’m sure they’ll make a big balancing patch in the next weeks to fix all the kitten that is PvP now.

Really, where do you guys took your concept of balance? From some free korean pay2win MMO? From WoW?

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

The balance is decent.
Everyone makes it out to be horrible.

They do not know what balance is.

That’s the truth.

That’s not the truth.

That is the truth.

You’re making it sound like there’s no balance at all.

Rika, if there is any imbalance at all, then there is no balance at all.. Balance is kind of an absolute thing.

Things can be acceptable, but the game will never be balanced. They’ll just get as close to balanced as they can.

auhfel.4129:

Rika, if there is any imbalance at all, then there is no balance at all.. Balance is kind of an absolute thing.

Then I’m sorry to report to you, that there will never ever be any balance.
Ever.

Rika.. I just said there would never be balance.. Thanks for restating my statement.

auhfel.4129:

Rika.. I just said there would never be balance.. Thanks for restating my statement.

Hey, no problem.

Thanks for reading the time on which the replies were submitted.

Thanks for thinking that might be the reason that I restated what you said.

Thanks for realizing if I had typed faster, you would’ve restated my statement, and as such, I could’ve belittled you.

But hey man, no problem. Space for your ego.

My post was no more belittling than yours was. I just don’t see why you are pushing so hard to argue that there is balance, when that’s just not attainable. It’d only be feasible if there was only 1 class, with no options to differ in skill or trait choices.

auhfel.4129:

My post was no more belittling than yours was. I just don’t see why you are pushing so hard to argue that there is balance, when that’s just not attainable. It’d only be feasible if there was only 1 class, with no options to differ in skill or trait choices.

Because you’re nitpicking one word that is not definite and is not absolute in the opinion of many. Sure, to you, and to the officials, balance is absolute.

In the world of MMO PvP, things can be slightly imbalanced, it’s not either or.

That is why you are belittling.

The general forum-user here will use the term as such: “this is balanced, it’s currently decently balanced. It’s slightly imbalanced, tweak it a bit so it’s more balanced”

This, according to you, does not exist. Either it’s chaotic hell, or it’s sunshine and gravy.

But we both know that’s not the case.

The balance overall is decent, and not half as horrible as people make it out to be.

People just haven’t gotten used to the fact that vitality and toughness are stats you actually want to get.

Even then, it’s only an opinion of balance that you are pushing, without even providing insight. You simply said ‘No, you’re wrong, game is balanced’. No discussion at all. It’s easy to say the game is imbalanced because even the devs think so, nerfing heartseeker and even stating “we’re waiting for builds to develop so we can see what’s imbalanced”.

The game is still extremely new and, and when games are new they are the most imbalanced. It’s silly to think that the game would be even acceptably balanced at start — Games like WoW are still tweaked, and that’s been out forever now.

It’s more productive to talk about imbalances and flesh out changes for them rather than simply saying ‘No you’re wrong, game is balanced, that’s the truth’.

auhfel.4129:

Even then, it’s only an opinion of balance that you are pushing, without even providing insight. You simply said ‘No, you’re wrong, game is balanced’. No discussion at all. It’s easy to say the game is imbalanced because even the devs think so, nerfing heartseeker and even stating “we’re waiting for builds to develop so we can see what’s imbalanced”.

The game is still extremely new and, and when games are new they are the most imbalanced. It’s silly to think that the game would be even acceptably balanced at start — Games like WoW are still tweaked, and that’s been out forever now.

It’s more productive to talk about imbalances and flesh out changes for them rather than simply saying ‘No you’re wrong, game is balanced, that’s the truth’.

I never claimed I was better than anyone else, and that is why I’m fighting fire with fire.

There are threads EVERYWHERE with people saying “x is op” “y is op”, they get an answer. They reject that answer and say the game is imbalanced and that everyone knows nothing about balance.

I don’t need to provide an argument as I already earlier in the thread said that I agree with the Original Poster.

The balance is fine so far. Needs polishing, sure. It always does.

It’s just nowhere near bad. It’s fine.

My insight has been provided pretty much everywhere.

It would seem very odd to start delivering my insight without any specific topic besides “the balance is fine” – sure, but why is it fine?

That’s going to require a novel.

Thus, I simply said I agree. If you have questions, I’ll gladly provide my insight.

Until then, don’t complain about not providing any arguments or the like.

It is also not very productive saying “DAT RUGOETHEIFWHATEVER KLAS IT PREZD 2 ND IT MAKED ME DED. IT OP. NERF.”

I guess OP is playing memser or guardian.. ^^

Stadig.7325:

I guess OP is playing memser or guardian.. ^^

I guess you’re playing an elementalist, guardian, warrior, mesmer, necromancer, thief, ranger or engineer.

They’re so OP.

The game still needs some work for sure, some skills still have bugs, some traits do not work properly so we will hopefully some changes in that area.

But balance ? you have to remember that each and every skill and trait in the game must be measured in 3 different aspects: SPvP/TPvP, PvE and WvW.
For instance, Moa morph is a strong ability in S/TPvP but not that much effective in WvW (morphing just 1 player from a big zerg isn’t nearly as helpful as taking out 1 player out of a 5 men team).

With that in mind, i think that only a handful of people can really make a valid claim to whether the game is really balanced or not.

So until someone with that knowledge will make a comment here, all i can suggest is that players will try to work with what we have right now.

The game is only 1 month old. I think we all need some more time with it in order to learn how to counter each and every class and it’s builds.
That’s why some classes may appear to have a significant advantage, such as thief and mesmer simply because they are harder to play against.
But that doesn’t make them OP, just ask yourself the question of what you can do differently in order to beat them.

they could do like in gw1: skill have an effect in pvp another in pve.

Stop kidding yourselves people. Mesmers portal is broken on khylo. I can 1v2 and win if i have my moa up. My team has finally decided to use a mesmer always on khylo because its the only way to counter their mesmer. So please don’t talk about underpowered players. If I am so bad then please tell me a way to counter instant repair on treb. PLEASE teach me since apparently I am bad.

There should always be a way to counter a profession or a build. Atm its incredibly hard to close out not a good mesmer, but just a mediocre mesmer. Find the real mesmer? It doesn’t matter if you do, because on top of that they have sword 2 which makes them invunerable, or sword 3 which they can swap places and immobilize someone, pistol off hand 5 to stun/daze, staff 2 on 8 seconds to get out of immobilizes and stuns, staff 4 for chaos armor. This is not including utilities on top of this. I know which mesmer is the real one within a second, but that does not matter because they’re harder to kill than any profession in the game without going toughness, but they probably will. On top of that i have to kill their phantasms.

Again if I am just a noob, then please educate the way to fight a mesmer instead of just saying something is balanced without backing it up.

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Yeah, and you cannot lose, if you do not leave your starting location. After all you haven’t even tried to win.

More useful suggestion at 8 p.m. tomorrow. Stay tuned.

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Yes. I am suggesting you do not destroy the weapon that can be instantly repaired, a weapon that does 7-8k damage over the course of a 5 second flight time, with a soldier screaming at you that you’re under fire (so you have no excuse to not know you’re getting blasted), so you can easily dodge it. I am suggesting you do NOT destroy it because the area of which it affects is SO small, and you can OUTRUN the shot. Thassright! You can outrun the thing if you desire. You can even do a /dance for a second and still avoid it.
I win practically every time by pressing “V” when I see a big flaming boulder coming towards me. Eventually, he’ll stop firing because he’s wasting his time hitting nothing.
While he’s sitting there firing his useless shots, his teammates are being battered and they could’ve used, say, a mesmer to help them assault.

Asmodean.5820:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Yeah, and you cannot lose, if you do not leave your starting location. After all you haven’t even tried to win.

More useful suggestion at 8 p.m. tomorrow. Stay tuned.

Yeah, and you cannot destroy the trebuchet, if you do not send players to destroy it, only to find it repaired a second later. You can’t win either, because you’re spending so much time on doing so, when you could… be capturing points :O!

Rika.7249:

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Yes. I win practically every time by pressing “V” when I see a big flaming boulder coming towards me. Eventually, he’ll stop firing because he’s wasting his time hitting nothing.

Wow, good thing you have unlimited endurance and when you’re capping you are always alone so you can pay all your attention to evade a big cannonball coming on your head.
What you’re saying is just out of this world.

Rika.7249:

Yeah, and you cannot destroy the trebuchet, if you do not send players to destroy it, only to find it repaired a second later. You can’t win either, because you’re spending so much time on doing so, when you could… be capturing points :O!

And that, guys, is what people claim to be a well balanced game!

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Yes. I win practically every time by pressing “V” when I see a big flaming boulder coming towards me. Eventually, he’ll stop firing because he’s wasting his time hitting nothing.

Wow, good thing you have unlimited endurance and when you’re capping you are always alone so you can pay all your attention to evade a big cannonball coming on your head.
What you’re saying is just out of this world.

Good thing you can outrun the boulder then.

Good thing I’m not a glass-cannon and good thing endurance regenerates at a fairly high rate!

Good thing the trebuchet takes ages to fire!

Good thing the trebuchet user wasn’t down here fighting me, maybe winning and then capturing the point!
Oh snap, otherworld tactics. Shunnnnnnnnnn!

You can’t dodge all treb shots…

That’s saying that you’re not gonna dodge anything from the person you’re fighting. In other words only dodge treb shots, get stunned and trebbed anyways.

I do leave the treb low, and then they go back on it and then i destroy it and then they come back 10 secs later to find it repaired and theyre trebbing again. You have node defenders on points only dps you need are treb shots.

Next.

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

One way to counter the instant repair on treb is by not destroying the treb at all. Dodge the treb, suddenly your team has 5 people, and their team has 4 people.

Seriously? So you are suggesting to not destroy a weapon who deal 7-8k damage, interrupts and is AoE? Do you know how the trebuchet can change the outcome of a battle?

Yes. I win practically every time by pressing “V” when I see a big flaming boulder coming towards me. Eventually, he’ll stop firing because he’s wasting his time hitting nothing.

Wow, good thing you have unlimited endurance and when you’re capping you are always alone so you can pay all your attention to evade a big cannonball coming on your head.
What you’re saying is just out of this world.

Rika.7249:

Yeah, and you cannot destroy the trebuchet, if you do not send players to destroy it, only to find it repaired a second later. You can’t win either, because you’re spending so much time on doing so, when you could… be capturing points :O!

And that, guys, is what people claim to be a well balanced game!

It’s fairly balanced, seeing as the weapon is largely useless.
The cannon in Capricorn is better and far more dangerous.

There’s a reason the treb is so easy to repair.

Kiirin.3418:

You can totally outrun all treb shots…

That’s like saying you don’t have the endurance to dodge a boulder every 6 or so seconds!

I do leave the treb low, and then they go back on it and then i destroy it and then they come back 10 secs later to find it repaired and theyre trebbing again. You have node defenders on points only dps you need are treb shots.

Kudos!

I agree, my friend! I just needed to fix it for you!

I’m glad we all agree that map awareness is key to success, and that it’s hard NOT to be aware of the trebuchet, with all the key-sounds attached to it!

Rika.7249:

It’s fairly balanced, seeing as the weapon is largely useless.
The cannon in Capricorn is better and far more dangerous.

There’s a reason the treb is so easy to repair.

True!
Who cares if something is unbalanced if there is something that is way more unbalanced? Your argument makes perfect sense!
But don’t forget to say that the balancing is decent.

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

It’s fairly balanced, seeing as the weapon is largely useless.
The cannon in Capricorn is better and far more dangerous.

There’s a reason the treb is so easy to repair.

True!
Who cares if something is unbalanced if there is something that is way more unbalanced? Your argument makes perfect sense!
But don’t forget to say that the balancing is decent.

Yeah! The 6-second fly time rock is unbalanced! It’s so hard to spot and move away from! We agree man! I can totally feel you!

- And the balancing is decent. You read my mind, bro!

So we agree that mesmers can instantly repair a gimmick in a map – an easily avoided gimmick at that, and in the end of the day, it’s not the treb that wins the games. It’s the capture points!

We also agree that it would be overpowered, if it was, say, Capture the Flag, where the mesmer’s ability wasn’t good for a map GIMMICK, but for a map objective, thus resulting in an unfair advantage, that directly finishes games in their favor, all day every day.

Ohhh boy that’s a horrible thought!

So you’re saying dodge the treb shots rather than dodging out of the way of the enemy you’re fighting. So dying to the other player is better than treb?

Kiirin.3418:

So you’re saying dodge the treb shots rather than dodging out of the way of the enemy you’re fighting. So dying to the other player is better than treb?

Who needs to use the dodging ability? Tell me, are the shots stealthed and do you have the sound turned off?

Good thing boulders can’t capture points.

You should try it out man. If you’re under fire, you should totally try and move yourself to a spot where you can still shoot at the enemy, while avoiding getting a boulder to the face!

It’s not like the boulder has 900 range splash hyuk hyuk hyuk!

Best thing I ever saw: A tournament with a Mesmer who fired ONE shot with the treb, saw the other team coming to blow it up, went for the repair kit and instant repaired it – went into the field and captured points while the other team went all the way up again to destroy it. That’s a lot of points lost man. Feels bad.

So while defending a node, you just walk off the node and let them cap it? I see…resulting in them capping my point or neutralizing my point. Hrm… that works.

Oh wait it doesnt.

If they have pushed me off my point then they have successfully won that skirmish. A node defender whos not able to defend their node has failed their job. Especially if theresa node defender guardian or support staff ele on the node. It is nearly impossible to push them off with the treb supporting them.

Kiirin.3418:

So while defending a node, you just walk off the node and let them cap it? I see…resulting in them capping my point or neutralizing my point. Hrm… that works.

Oh wait it doesnt.

Oh, by all means, go destroy the trebuchet! Even WITHOUT a Mesmer, you won’t make it to a point before it’s repaired again, and you’re back in that situation.

Luckily for you, and me, and everyone, you can also stand on the point and use your endurance. You can also move out of the way. You can do a whole lot of things.

I would, for example, stay ranged and down him, walk in and finish. Capture point. Win gaymz. And let’s not forget, that your team consists of 5 players, while their team consists of 4, and a trebuchet! The trebuchet can’t capture points, and it can’t hold them either. It can besiege assaulted points, but moving is key in Guild Wars 2, so in the end of the day, if you’re playing properly (which you are, from now on), you’ll capture the point.

If the trebuchet had cannon fire speed however, I wouldn’t be able to.

Now you know which siege weapons to fear, and which ones not to fear.

Rika.7249:

Kiirin.3418:

So you’re saying dodge the treb shots rather than dodging out of the way of the enemy you’re fighting. So dying to the other player is better than treb?

Who needs to use the dodging ability? Tell me, are the shots stealthed and do you have the sound turned off?

Good thing boulders can’t capture points.

Have you already realized that most the time you are getting shot by trebuchet is when you are actually fighting with another player, who probably has immobilizations, stuns, daze and so on?

Have you realized that if the trebuchet can be destroyed there is a reason behind it and if a single profession can easily cancel that action there is a true problem?

Have you realized that if most the players destroy the trebuchet is because it is a true threat and not a bubble shooting gun? Are you better than every player or you are just trying to defend a situation which is unreal by saying unreal things?

sorrow.2364:

Rika.7249:

Kiirin.3418:

So you’re saying dodge the treb shots rather than dodging out of the way of the enemy you’re fighting. So dying to the other player is better than treb?

Who needs to use the dodging ability? Tell me, are the shots stealthed and do you have the sound turned off?

Good thing boulders can’t capture points.

Have you realized that if most the players destroy the trebuchet is because it is a true threat and not a bubble shooting gun?

I removed everything else from this post as my arguments haven’t been countered there. I would however love to point out the “Most players” part.

Most players = Best players.

Mmm, logic.

Most players tell you to zerg the lord in Legacy.

Must be good tactic man.

Also, tell me, have you realized the Trebuchet does not have pinpoint aim, especially at large ranges, and as such, the whole immobilize and so on isn’t really an issue.

Also, here’s how the situation looks:

1 Enemy defends Mansion (whatever, just any point) His friend, Michael, is in the treb instead of defending.

2 Players, you, and Donald, assault said point.

Donald COULD be in the Trebuchet instead, but he’s not, so you’re outnumbering the enemy at the point.

You destroy Enemy while keeping an eye on boulders.

You take point.

You /dance.

Rika.7249:

Oh, by all means, go destroy the trebuchet! Even WITHOUT a Mesmer, you won’t make it to a point before it’s repaired again, and you’re back in that situation.

Luckily for you, and me, and everyone, you can also stand on the point and use your endurance. You can also move out of the way. You can do a whole lot of things.

I would, for example, stay ranged and down him, walk in and finish. Capture point. Win gaymz. And let’s not forget, that your team consists of 5 players, while their team consists of 4, and a trebuchet! The trebuchet can’t capture points, and it can’t hold them either. It can besiege assaulted points, but moving is key in Guild Wars 2, so in the end of the day, if you’re playing properly (which you are, from now on), you’ll capture the point.

If the trebuchet had cannon fire speed however, I wouldn’t be able to.

Now you know which siege weapons to fear, and which ones not to fear.

Do you not play tournament? In what occasion unless in dire circumstances would i leave my point? Do you not use roamers? Instant repairing and walking a repair kit takes a lot longer. A support staff ele can easily destroy a treb, but its about buying time before they repairing again. You dont buy any time when their mesmer instantly repairs.

Your kidding yourself if you think a brand new game wont have balancing issues. While some players are just badies there are forsure OP and UP classes and abilitys. Quit telling everyone to L2P and live in the real world for once. I’m sure that at least 70% of the people saying “learn to dodge noob” are spaming thiefs and 100b warriors spamming an Iwin button and running away stroking their own ego cause they got another kill.

Kiirin.3418:

Rika.7249:

Oh, by all means, go destroy the trebuchet! Even WITHOUT a Mesmer, you won’t make it to a point before it’s repaired again, and you’re back in that situation.

Luckily for you, and me, and everyone, you can also stand on the point and use your endurance. You can also move out of the way. You can do a whole lot of things.

I would, for example, stay ranged and down him, walk in and finish. Capture point. Win gaymz. And let’s not forget, that your team consists of 5 players, while their team consists of 4, and a trebuchet! The trebuchet can’t capture points, and it can’t hold them either. It can besiege assaulted points, but moving is key in Guild Wars 2, so in the end of the day, if you’re playing properly (which you are, from now on), you’ll capture the point.

If the trebuchet had cannon fire speed however, I wouldn’t be able to.

Now you know which siege weapons to fear, and which ones not to fear.

Do you not play tournament? In what occasion unless in dire circumstances would i leave my point? Do you not use roamers? Instant repairing and walking a repair kit takes a lot longer. A support staff ele can easily destroy a treb, but its about buying time before they repairing again. You dont buy any time when their mesmer instantly repairs.

Do YOU not play tournament?

How can you even type that without seeing the contradiction in your statements?

“Walking a repair kit takes longer than for me to walk to said point”

“Don’t you use roamers?”

Wow.

So the 15-20 seconds it takes a Thief, for example, isn’t fast.

Yes, I play tournament. That is why nobody goes for the trebuchet. Because that’s something you do in 8v8, where you can spare a man.

How on earth do you even think leaving 20% of your total manpower behind is a good idea?

Lets just face the truth now 80% of the people whining about classes being OP are the people from WoW. Their have been hundreds of posts like " I’m a WoW pro gladiator and this game is unbalanced!" Can we all just stop complaining stop running the glass cannon specs and stop taking all damage abilities as the 3 slot skills AND stop tab targeting

You forgot to add that you are mainly playing thief guardian and mesmer which is why your conscience is extra extra clear.

Lets say that I don’t have a mesmer and they do.

Lets say this I have one on my treb, one on my close point, and one on clock, plus 2 roamers. Mesmers don’t need to be glass cannon to do a lot of damage with a shatter build. They will definitely go for our treb while supporting their points with treb. You cannot 1v1 a mesmer with everyclass, but you can use a support ele to destroy treb and leave unscathed and then hold point.(But this assuming you are running a staff ele) They destroy your treb, you go for med kit but their roamers know that you ‘re going for it. On the other hand the mesmer goes for theirs and instantly repairs and start reinforcing their points once more with treb(most likely their clock tower since its the easiest thing to hit with treb). Lets say that they don’t try kill your guy whos trying to grab repair kit. It takes about 20-30 seconds for him to go there and grab it. Means that their team has 15 second advantage of treb support. Through this they keep pushing their advantage.

Meaning only way to keep up with them is to grab a portal mesmer also to even it out.

Mesmers are the best 1v1 profession in the game right now and can get away from almost anything as you said to counter cap AND grab repair kit and get back. So balanced!

Kiirin.3418:

Lets say that I don’t have a mesmer and they do.

Lets say this I have one on my treb, one on my close point, and one on clock, plus 2 roamers. Mesmers don’t need to be glass cannon to do a lot of damage with a shatter build. They will definitely go for our treb while supporting their points with treb. You cannot 1v1 a mesmer with everyclass, but you can use a support ele to destroy treb and leave unscathed and then hold point.(But this assuming you are running a staff ele) They destroy your treb, you go for med kit but their roamers know that you ‘re going for it. On the other hand the mesmer goes for theirs and instantly repairs and start reinforcing their points once more with treb(most likely their clock tower since its the easiest thing to hit with treb). Lets say that they don’t try kill your guy whos trying to grab repair kit. It takes about 20-30 seconds for him to go there and grab it. Means that their team has 15 second advantage of treb support. Through this they keep pushing their advantage.

Meaning only way to keep up with them is to grab a portal mesmer also to even it out.

If you decided to NOT send your support Ele to their trebuchet, you could have 2 defending each point, and a roamer to support either point when under pressure.

Mr Magoo.9065:

You forgot to add that you are mainly playing thief guardian and mesmer which is why your conscience is extra extra clear.

Oh you! I could swap out any of those professions and that would still be true <3

Kiirin.3418:

Mesmers are the best 1v1 profession in the game right now and can get away from almost anything as you said to counter cap AND grab repair kit and get back. So balanced!

Hm. I disagree about the best 1v1 profession. Engineers and Guardians would be my best bet there. But I will agree that they’re strong. Mostly because of the Moa.

I could not agree with the OP more.

I have to admit, as I was hashing through the different possible builds and really getting a hold of how different classes and their builds play, there are times that certain things felt really overpowered and under-balanced.

As I got a better feel and knowledge about how to play, it all began to mitigate out and make sense. I think players are just running up against the issue of unexpectedly deep play skill in ways that we are not used to in an MMO. I have never seen such a consistent, expected improvement rate while getting familiar with a class over time.

Now the only times I find myself really aggravated due to “balance” is really just do to some hit recognition or animation bugs usually caused by lag (IE getting stunned in mist form or a warrior/thief blade spin animation not occurring and then all the dmg resolving at once).

Again, I think the OP was very well stated and would also encourage people not to use 8v8 pubs as the best way to benchmark power and builds as the more support and finesse class builds are only really viable in a coordinated role… As a matter of fact, they might even be a little overpowered for all we know =P.

But you are fighting without treb support because they will definitely go for it. I have tried exactly what you have said. We try to reinforce the outer points since most treb shooters are pretty bad. But we lose miserably because treb will always shoot on Nodes. So their node holder will always sit on node and kite on node. And yes the splash on node is large enough to hit you on node or a little out of it. We fight an uphill battle where they have 1 always on treb when we don’t. 1 node holder can defend suddenly against 3 because all they need to do is hide on their node.

Kiirin.3418:

But you are fighting without treb support because they will definitely go for it. I have tried exactly what you have said. We try to reinforce the outer points since most treb shooters are pretty bad. But we lose miserably because treb will always shoot on Nodes. So their node holder will always sit on node and kite on node. And yes the splash on node is large enough to hit you on node or a little out of it. We fight an uphill battle where they have 1 always on treb when we don’t. 1 node holder can defend suddenly against 3 because all they need to do is hide on their node.

So you’ve tried having 5 people in the field, ignoring their treb, and just holding against 4 people? That’s usually how I win.

When they start going for the trebuchet, that’s usually how I lose. Cuz then the mesmer cycle begins, and we’re a man down.