Guild Wars 2

Haste on bar is a bad choice in general sense, just go Rage sigil. If you need more than 3 seconds, you aren’t doing Thief right.

TheLastNobody.8319:

brannigan.9831:

We don’t even know how the changes will play out so its stupid to say x is op before we have even seen it in practice. We already know what is god mode right now though and its getting nerfed and rightfully so much to the sorrow of the op.

Given the past history with thieves and mesmers, combined with the buffs to thief with that unblockable and unbreakable stun, their greater access to stealth and their damage, along with the Mesmer nerfs, we can gleam enough to know that a Mesmer will be fodder for thieves. Even if a Mesmer stealths to try and heal up the theif will just stealth up himself and outlast the Mesmer, jumping on them the moment they reveal themselves.

Being masters of deception and illusion, I believe it would be fair if Mesmer got something that could allow it to see people in stealth similar to stealth detection, but only the Mesmer would see it and nobody else.

Thieves were fodder for guardians since begin of time. And engis for years now. Your point?

Rome.7124:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Well I’ll be kitten ed. Welp, bring on the doomsayers. Guess everyone has to taste the frustration of being underpowered every now and then. Guess its mesmers turn to feel weak again, then it’ll be back to necros and rangers being UP, then warriors and thieves as the cycle simply continues.

Now let’s be honest here, compare to many other classes, Mesmers didnt really exist as part of meta in the past 3 years, classes like Ele, Guardian, Engis, warriors have all enjoyed longer stay at Meta. I really dont get the extreme handle by ANet when it comes to the Mesmers class. ONE meta and they decided to nuke it into none existence. They have no idea what the Mesmer class should be.

5% speed increase on traited scepter ?
cd reduction ?
I already see lazzy fix coming….they don’t even try to look pro

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Dahkeus.8243:

Not only will the power of this skill become more pronounced once people start actually seriously playing this profession in PvP again, but it will also be the only fast cast spike in the game after the quickness spike nerf.

Don’t forget, too, that Impact Strike itself will likewise be bolstered by Quickness. Thief doesn’t really have a lot of ways to generate Quickness on its own, I don’t know that many people are going to be running Haste on their bar, but a good coordinated team with an ally who can drop Quickness on demand can bring about some fast and brutal Impact Strike stomps. And maybe some of the top players will be able to make Haste work, too. It’s still a stunbreak at the end of the day, and with improved auto-attacks Quickness will no longer be as much a DPS waste as it is now on a Thief, compared to say a Revenant…

Yea, in theory quickness would be great with impact, but I don’t see it happening often aside maybe from very organized groups and even then, we may see less of this with bunker mesmers moving out of the meta.

Haste has gotten a lot of love, but it’s tough to replace the current utilities that thieves run. This is one of the many reasons why venoms builds never made it to meta. =P

It’s too bad Trickster competes with Bountiful Theft. The stab stripping steal is just too good to give up…

Question. Nobody has mentioned how all of these unlockable effects screw over guard the most :P. Or has guard simply faded into the background cuz traps op?

I main mesmer and my stance is thieves will not be God mode.

I’m ashamed of my fellow mesmer players who are posting this nonsense

SlayerSixx.5763:

Question. Nobody has mentioned how all of these unlockable effects screw over guard the most :P. Or has guard simply faded into the background cuz traps op?

You mean like this guy?

laquito.5269:

Every time thief buffs are announced people go ham and whine their kittening kitten off in here. Thief never really had issues with mesmers to begin with and now OP wants to make us believe that it’s BV which will push Thief over the edge?

In reality whether you play with BV or not is completly irrelevant, cause you should be able to win against Mes anyway. BV is far more useful against Revenant, Guard and Scrapper than it is against Mesmers. It’s also only 2 attacks, not even a timeframe of unblockable attacks so this is clearly just another whine topic.

Either way, I think people are still blowing this out of proportion because they’re forgetting 2 things:

1) Impact Strike will still be the better elite.
2) BV still has a 1s cast time, so the thief will either have to be really lucky to catch you while you’re casting shelter or they’ll just have to stand around waiting for you to cast it before they attack anything.

Sure, there’s aegis, but that never mattered much for thieves anyways. BV has had 2 charges for a while now and even a thief without BV never had to worry about it since backstab doesn’t reveal if aegis blocks and bountiful theft makes your steals burn right through it.

Traps have nothing to do with this.

Honestly, revs probably are the most vulnerable since a thief can see them use Crystalline Hibernation, cast BV, and actually land it before it’s over.

I predict PU Mes will come back with an avengeance after these changes. Been a while since I used it.

Vague Memory.2817:

I predict PU Mes will come back with an avengeance after these changes. Been a while since I used it.

Yea, PU was never much more than a troll build in sPvP. It may come back to WvW to some degree, but PU hasn’t really gotten any better since the big stealth duration nerf.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Question. Nobody has mentioned how all of these unlockable effects screw over guard the most :P. Or has guard simply faded into the background cuz traps op?

All being two on a 40 second cd unless you’re 1vxing (in which scenario you should die anyway)

keep that in mind

Dahkeus.8243:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Question. Nobody has mentioned how all of these unlockable effects screw over guard the most :P. Or has guard simply faded into the background cuz traps op?

You mean like this guy?

laquito.5269:

Every time thief buffs are announced people go ham and whine their kittening kitten off in here. Thief never really had issues with mesmers to begin with and now OP wants to make us believe that it’s BV which will push Thief over the edge?

In reality whether you play with BV or not is completly irrelevant, cause you should be able to win against Mes anyway. BV is far more useful against Revenant, Guard and Scrapper than it is against Mesmers. It’s also only 2 attacks, not even a timeframe of unblockable attacks so this is clearly just another whine topic.

Either way, I think people are still blowing this out of proportion because they’re forgetting 2 things:

1) Impact Strike will still be the better elite.
2) BV still has a 1s cast time, so the thief will either have to be really lucky to catch you while you’re casting shelter or they’ll just have to stand around waiting for you to cast it before they attack anything.

Sure, there’s aegis, but that never mattered much for thieves anyways. BV has had 2 charges for a while now and even a thief without BV never had to worry about it since backstab doesn’t reveal if aegis blocks and bountiful theft makes your steals burn right through it.

Traps have nothing to do with this.

Honestly, revs probably are the most vulnerable since a thief can see them use Crystalline Hibernation, cast BV, and actually land it before it’s over.

What about basically ruining focus? BV and untraited SoW have about 4s between the two in terms of CD. The guard would usually blow SoW during a CC. Assuming the thief initiates with BV out of stealth after stealing aegis, that guarantees at least backstab landing before SoW is either broken or expires.

Also, I understand that the DH virtue shield is super cheesy, but what about severely reducing its effectiveness? Thief and guard have the same health pool and deal similar damage. Every hit counts in this fight. Thief can reposition repeatedly to kite the guard’s 0 mobility melee, but what can the guard do? Chrono has no place complaining since they’ve got, basically, all of the escapes in the game (in w.e proportions). If the thief bypasses their shield, they still have as much invuln as guard, teleports AND stealths coupled with a sizeable amount of CC to counter pressure with. Guard gets all ined and a thief that simply waits out shelter can pretty much place a backstab+HS very quickly.

Also, don’t misunderstand. DPS guard will still be one of thief’s toughest matchups, especially if they’re running DH with traps still punishing people who try to go melee VS the DH. I just want to know why all the unblockables…? Why not just reduce overall blocks (not that guard had too much of to begin with) instead of introducing something like this? Next, they’ll introduce skills that go through evades/invulns/blinds because they simply don’t want to go through the process of properly balancing every class’ resources x.×.....

Thief been guard fodder for ages, 1 unblockable attack won’t change it. Then we have scrappers and revs with low CD reveal which absolute hardcounter that you can’t do anything about (besides clutch dodge in mids of visual cluster spam). Imagine thieves could prevent guards from healing and use of some spells for 6 sec on 20 sec CD? Yeah~ You really don’t have it THAT bad.

Not really complaining. Just confused. Like, I’m not just referring to BV. HoT is throwing around unblockables like candy. Guard has other forms of sustain which is why they’re still going strong, but its almost the equivalent of them spreading reveal like candy.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Dahkeus.8243:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Question. Nobody has mentioned how all of these unlockable effects screw over guard the most :P. Or has guard simply faded into the background cuz traps op?

You mean like this guy?

laquito.5269:

Every time thief buffs are announced people go ham and whine their kittening kitten off in here. Thief never really had issues with mesmers to begin with and now OP wants to make us believe that it’s BV which will push Thief over the edge?

In reality whether you play with BV or not is completly irrelevant, cause you should be able to win against Mes anyway. BV is far more useful against Revenant, Guard and Scrapper than it is against Mesmers. It’s also only 2 attacks, not even a timeframe of unblockable attacks so this is clearly just another whine topic.

Either way, I think people are still blowing this out of proportion because they’re forgetting 2 things:

1) Impact Strike will still be the better elite.
2) BV still has a 1s cast time, so the thief will either have to be really lucky to catch you while you’re casting shelter or they’ll just have to stand around waiting for you to cast it before they attack anything.

Sure, there’s aegis, but that never mattered much for thieves anyways. BV has had 2 charges for a while now and even a thief without BV never had to worry about it since backstab doesn’t reveal if aegis blocks and bountiful theft makes your steals burn right through it.

Traps have nothing to do with this.

Honestly, revs probably are the most vulnerable since a thief can see them use Crystalline Hibernation, cast BV, and actually land it before it’s over.

What about basically ruining focus? BV and untraited SoW have about 4s between the two in terms of CD. The guard would usually blow SoW during a CC. Assuming the thief initiates with BV out of stealth after stealing aegis, that guarantees at least backstab landing before SoW is either broken or expires.

Also, I understand that the DH virtue shield is super cheesy, but what about severely reducing its effectiveness? Thief and guard have the same health pool and deal similar damage. Every hit counts in this fight. Thief can reposition repeatedly to kite the guard’s 0 mobility melee, but what can the guard do? Chrono has no place complaining since they’ve got, basically, all of the escapes in the game (in w.e proportions). If the thief bypasses their shield, they still have as much invuln as guard, teleports AND stealths coupled with a sizeable amount of CC to counter pressure with. Guard gets all ined and a thief that simply waits out shelter can pretty much place a backstab+HS very quickly.

Also, don’t misunderstand. DPS guard will still be one of thief’s toughest matchups, especially if they’re running DH with traps still punishing people who try to go melee VS the DH. I just want to know why all the unblockables…? Why not just reduce overall blocks (not that guard had too much of to begin with) instead of introducing something like this? Next, they’ll introduce skills that go through evades/invulns/blinds because they simply don’t want to go through the process of properly balancing every class’ resources x.×.....

Not sure what you’re getting at. Yes, BV can still be a strong counter to some guard skills, but as you said, DPS guard will still probably be a counter to thief as it historically has been.

If I were you, I’d be more concerned about warriors getting beefed up. If they become viable, Sig of Might + Rifle will tear guardians up. I mean, it does now, but you probably won’t see this much considering how many warriors are out there right now. 6 seconds of attacks, which can include CCs is a lot more brutal than 2 attacks with a stun you can break, especially considering that they can activate theirs instantly whereas the thief has a 1s cast time (along with almost double the cooldown).

Mesmers have been in a better spot for much longer than thief. I’ve played at launch and I cant remember a single time that the mesmer wasnt at the very least “ok” and “viable”.

Thief On the other hand was in a bad spot before the june patch, pretty bad after the june patch, and down right trash tier for HOT.

I dont remember a significant phase in time where having a single mesmer was avoided.

These kinda salty tears make me think its people who love being over powered and try to exaggerate the Mesmer nerf or its the people that move and turn with their wasd keys and point and click their utility abilities.

Seriously wait for the patch to actually be out before you cry an ocean of salt. You know what a thief would do? A thief that would hear about a nerf would be like “alright im going to go in and give this patch a shot, maybe I can still be viable.” And us thieves have been doing that with such a bleak barrage of nerfs. Youvve been living large and you finally get a nerf and its the end of the world LMAOLMAOLMAO.

Its like the aristocrat child who has been living the spoiled life and their daddy got a pay cut at work. AWWWW!

So What if it SOUNDS BAD. Tie in the Amulet changes along with the other class changes and you never know. Its just theory. Take a deep breath, give it a go, and if it is truly too much, then let us pray that they adjust it a little bit before the long wait for the next balance cycle.

@Dahkeus

Fair enough. Its just that unblockables make about as much sense as reveal. Now that there’s more in the game, it just makes me wonder why ANet isn’t just reworking PvP entirely.

@Cobrakon

Mesmer has been just about meh tier for a better part of two years, coming into competitive play recently after 6/23 and then falling off again only to come back after HoT. I don’t like chronobunk either, but let’s not deny the facts.

This thread is a kittening joke…. You seem to forget, being an assassin means yes, killing players. Thief has the best mobility… Woopty kittening doo, so do mesmers and thief’s don’t have the ability to teleport friends anywhere. You people seem to forget thief has not been able to 1v1 any class on the game for well over a year now.. THAT is poor design. Last I checked an assassin class was SUPPOSED to kill cloth classes, i know it’s unbelievable a thief has the capability of actually pvping solo in pvp!!! Stop your wining and welcome to actually playing the game where things can harm you and you are not an impenetrable broken class anymore.

Rome.7124:

BiggyB.4825:

Thief is finally out of the gutter and people are already calling for nerfs/complaining L2p

What comes around goes around, you bet your rear end I will be clamoring for them to be nerfed, given what will happen to Mesmers.

Going by that logic it looks like Mesmers turn has “come around”.

Sadrien.3470:

Lusteregris.2697:

Cmon, your saying it like just thieves counter mesmer. All classes are gonna counter mesmer now. I mean..what ya want to play? Shatter? Its already weaker than thief, after balance patch buffing thiefs and nerfing mes even more so. Condi? Good luck with that. Bunker? It was nerfed in literally every possible way, and bunkers are gonna be free kill for necros now anyway.

Sums up mesmer.

Sums up thief this patch, aswel.
Oh, and warriors.

Sadrien.3470:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ithilwen.1529:

ANET chose to strip the vast majority of Mesmer defense. Offensive power was also greatly reduced ( 50% Alacrity nerf .)

At the same time they buffed thief auto attack by 30%. This alone would have meant that a thief pulling off a backstab would most likely be able to kill a Mesmer in 1 or 2 moves.

That wasn’t enough though.. ANET added an unblockable bassy venom. This makes the Mesmer shield ( our new weapon ) essentially worthless v. a thief. With the damage increase, a thief can practically kill a Mesmer with a very short combination of button pushes with almost no risk.

I doubt that even shortsighted ANET could have failed to anticipate this situation and it is likely to kick Mesmer right back to trash tier where we languished for years.

So, my question is; “Why do you hate mesmer , ANET?”

Are you taking revenge on a Pro League Mesmer?

Is it office politics at ANET?

Do you simply not want Mesmer in the game?

ANET won’t answer of course, that would require both courage and honesty.

Like, honestly, all I read is “oh no, someone can finally counter/pressure me a bit”..

Your afk-brainfart times are over, friend.

If this is really denied that is pretty sad….. you have fallen really far.

I’ve fallen nowhere.
The fact mesmers are so broken right now and thieves are fodder, just doesnt add up why ppl are complaining about Mesmers being “oh so weak” while the patch aint even out.

I saw no1 here standing up for thieves and/or warriors. On the contrary.

Yes, thief is getting auto-attack buff, woohoo, now we can.. auto attack ourselves to death in AoE’s.. Acrobatics with new trait? Forget it. Not going to be better than the lines we use now. (atleast with the information provided for now)

Yes I want every class balanced, ofcourse.
But I just can’t stand ppl who are trying to save a broken class, just because it let them get into Legendary League or win so many matches while sleeping.

And call other ppl bad, on top of it.

Azukas.1426:

I main mesmer and my stance is thieves will not be God mode.

I’m ashamed of my fellow mesmer players who are posting this nonsense

I main mesmer aswell, and I kinda agree with him! And as already stated, we need to wait and see, where we land after this patch!

As with any changes, you should first test and see them in game before you speculate if they are too strong/too weak. This is true for many balance changes.

They didn’t say how much dagger auto damage was being buffed. Sword auto DPS overall is being increased about 30%. Also, considering Backstab shouldn’t count as ‘Auto damage’, I’m doubtful that it’s being buffed very much, since it very much belongs under dagger’s “Burst damage”

With how Basilisk Venom works, being unblockable for two hits is not much. You speculate that this will be the death of mesmers and eles, but that’s only assuming you don’t carry any stun breaks (Blink, Well of Precog, you can even pop distortion to mitigate damage). Normally after a backstab, a thief will tend to auto attack, so the 2nd “unblockable” charge is neglectable. The 2nd charge only matters if you’re playing vs a Staff thief, which, normally staff thieves carry DD Elite, so we’ll see how that goes.

Let’s say you do stun break after the backstab, and before the auto attack chain. This is the only chance that a thief will attempt a 2nd “Unblockable” hit by restealthing, which means you have 3 seconds to try and respond before he stealths. Or he will shadow shot, which is a waste of a basi charge in terms of damage, but hey, now you can start blocking, cause in all likelihood, you still have one more defense mech unless you panicked.

Warlord.9074:

mes is real disgusting right now, I know it feels bad to be nerfed, but mes deserves it badly. If you are a mes you don’t play the same game as me for you the game is easy and you don’t even know it becuz you are too used to abusing how broken you are.

Oh so the game is hard now and you have to play well? Welcome to my world.

Non-mesmer players need to stop trashing mes players…. Real mes players aren’t complaining about the bunker being nerfed and they all agree that it was op. People who truly play mes will continue stomping kids even after the next nerf where all other mes builds (shatter, bunker, condi, mantra, you name it) are crap again compared to any given other profession running a similar build.

After the nerf all the people who just WANT to play mes will quit cause its too hard, and every other profession in the game will be happy cause only the great mesmers are actually any good and they wont have to worry about them as often. Real mes player will be upset they have to be twice as good as any other profession to be better than them but at the same time will be happy knowing they are some of the best and fewest players in the game.

So speaking on the behalf of the real mes population… Go ahead and keep complaining you can’t handle us. Get us nerfed time and time again…. We’ll just keep finding new ways to crush you. Keeps things interesting that way. ^^ gl stopping us next season

This is a bothersome OP,Ithilwen is it? Did you at some point in your ridiculous post stop to consider that mesmer did need to get toned down? chronomancer was over tuned. Their negate strings were too long and they gained their powerful abilities too quickly.

Since it appears you just started playing PvP you should know that before the chaos we have now, if you missed your high damage skills too often you would die because there were a very limited amount of negates. Anet decided to change that by giving almost every class the ability to negate or avoid damage for days on end with short CDs on their high damage attacks.

In mesmers case, it is just so silly, On my thief against a good mesmer, the fight never ends. I attack, i have to spend the next 5 seconds dodging a burst, i attack again, block, i attack again, block, then i have to dodge the burst again, then a gravity well, then another burst and another gravity well. I haven’t even mentioned the invulnerability uptime.

You dont think about this, no..its so easy to come on the forums and complain isnt it?

Thief needs the buff, if you’ve been paying attention at all in the past 2 months you would know why thief needed to be tweaked and mesmer and guard had to be toned down.

This is a bothersome OP,Ithilwen is it? Did you at some point in your ridiculous post stop to consider that mesmer did need to get toned down? chronomancer was over tuned. Their negate strings were too long and they gained their powerful abilities too quickly.

Since it appears you just started playing PvP you should know that before the chaos we have now, if you missed your high damage skills too often you would die because there were a very limited amount of negates. Anet decided to change that by giving almost every class the ability to negate or avoid damage for days on end with short CDs on their high damage attacks.

In mesmers case, it is just so silly, On my thief against a good mesmer, the fight never ends. I attack, i have to spend the next 5 seconds dodging a burst, i attack again, block, i attack again, block, then i have to dodge the burst again, then a gravity well, then another burst and another gravity well. I haven’t even mentioned the invulnerability uptime.

You dont think about this, no..its so easy to come on the forums and complain isnt it?

Thief needs the buff, if you’ve been paying attention at all in the past 2 months you would know why thief needed to be tweaked and mesmer and guard had to be toned down.

This is a bothersome OP,Ithilwen is it? Did you at some point in your ridiculous post stop to consider that mesmer did need to get toned down? chronomancer was over tuned. Their negate strings were too long and they gained their powerful abilities too quickly.

Since it appears you just started playing PvP you should know that before the chaos we have now, if you missed your high damage skills too often you would die because there were a very limited amount of negates. Anet decided to change that by giving almost every class the ability to negate or avoid damage for days on end with short CDs on their high damage attacks.

In mesmers case, it is just so silly, On my thief against a good mesmer, the fight never ends. I attack, i have to spend the next 5 seconds dodging a burst, i attack again, block, i attack again, block, then i have to dodge the burst again, then a gravity well, then another burst and another gravity well. I haven’t even mentioned the invulnerability uptime.

You dont think about this, no..its so easy to come on the forums and complain isnt it?

Thief needs the buff, if you’ve been paying attention at all in the past 2 months you would know why thief needed to be tweaked and mesmer and guard had to be toned down.

Uncle Dalty.8327:

Warlord.9074:

mes is real disgusting right now, I know it feels bad to be nerfed, but mes deserves it badly. If you are a mes you don’t play the same game as me for you the game is easy and you don’t even know it becuz you are too used to abusing how broken you are.

Oh so the game is hard now and you have to play well? Welcome to my world.

Non-mesmer players need to stop trashing mes players…. Real mes players aren’t complaining about the bunker being nerfed and they all agree that it was op. People who truly play mes will continue stomping kids even after the next nerf where all other mes builds (shatter, bunker, condi, mantra, you name it) are crap again compared to any given other profession running a similar build.

After the nerf all the people who just WANT to play mes will quit cause its too hard, and every other profession in the game will be happy cause only the great mesmers are actually any good and they wont have to worry about them as often. Real mes player will be upset they have to be twice as good as any other profession to be better than them but at the same time will be happy knowing they are some of the best and fewest players in the game.

So speaking on the behalf of the real mes population… Go ahead and keep complaining you can’t handle us. Get us nerfed time and time again…. We’ll just keep finding new ways to crush you. Keeps things interesting that way. ^^ gl stopping us next season

Don’t worry. I will. With my god mode theif

Uncle Dalty.8327:

Warlord.9074:

mes is real disgusting right now, I know it feels bad to be nerfed, but mes deserves it badly. If you are a mes you don’t play the same game as me for you the game is easy and you don’t even know it becuz you are too used to abusing how broken you are.

Oh so the game is hard now and you have to play well? Welcome to my world.

Non-mesmer players need to stop trashing mes players…. Real mes players aren’t complaining about the bunker being nerfed and they all agree that it was op. People who truly play mes will continue stomping kids even after the next nerf where all other mes builds (shatter, bunker, condi, mantra, you name it) are crap again compared to any given other profession running a similar build.

After the nerf all the people who just WANT to play mes will quit cause its too hard, and every other profession in the game will be happy cause only the great mesmers are actually any good and they wont have to worry about them as often. Real mes player will be upset they have to be twice as good as any other profession to be better than them but at the same time will be happy knowing they are some of the best and fewest players in the game.

So speaking on the behalf of the real mes population… Go ahead and keep complaining you can’t handle us. Get us nerfed time and time again…. We’ll just keep finding new ways to crush you. Keeps things interesting that way. ^^ gl stopping us next season

Don’t worry. I will. With my god mode theif

Pls change thread title to “more whining about mesmer balancing”