Guild Wars 2

Poxxia.1547:

@MrBig: I can usually have a sensible “conversation” with you. Last time you referred to a post by TP’s thief, and even if the two of you didn’t exactly agree completely, he at least said quite clearly, that thieves’ burst was OTT. The burst on demand is not even a question of slow reactions; in 0.3s you can deal incredible amount of dmg and given internet-latency and normal reaction-times it is not even possible to counter it.

Just for a second imagine, if matches were deathmatches or AoE wasn’t so abundant. As I have said numerous times: It shouldn’t in a game that claims to require skills be an issue, that you go from 75-0% hp on anything from 3.2k armor and downwards in an instant. How can anyone in their right mind defend it? To top it, it is even easy to set up, easy to home, and if done correctly undetectable. Then comes the dmg from 50/60%-0 that can be taken in close to an instant (depending on what utility you have) on any given time.

Now … I don’t thieves to not be viable. But I can’t see myself playing a game with a silly class like this, that with their really solid mobility can appear anywhere and ruin the fight you were winning in an instant. It feels like you are almost forced into playing their counter if you want the game to be enjoyable (yes, I am talking about ele’s, and I find thieves tears over ele’s to be quite pathetic tbh).
But this is not a healthy solution to the problem. Or any solution really. Could we be constructive about this, or should the mud-throwing continue?

As i said plenty of times, i ’m in favour of toning down the burst for thieves, as long as it happens all the way for other classes ( and with consequential nerf to bunkering capabilities).

The point is that the thief , in its current state, is not viable in any other role aside burst, and if they tone down classes like ele, mesmer and guardian, they’ll still be top notch, while a nerf to thief burst will bring the class to the “useless” tier.

Thief burst needs to be nerfed, but the class needs to be rehauled in order to be competitive in other roles, unlike the did in the past by nerfing the only decent lternative to burst we had ( S/D) simply because their math in daze rounding was wrong ( Tactical strike rounding to 3 secs instead of 2.5).

Currently all thief options are no good ( venoms, traps and similars), our traits are so bad it’s not even funny, we have no sustain without stealth and stealth doesn’t allow thieves to contest points, making the class useless in high sustained fights and skirmishes.

I can easily remember when aNet said, 2 years ago, on thief release day " the thief is not the common “stealth-burst class”, we think at stealth as a tool for repositioning, as the thief is perfectly able to fight without stealth".

Sadly it’s not like this, a thief can’t stand in fights for more than 2 secs, even random warriors GS swings can bring you down to 50% hp, and we NEED stealth in order to leave the fight.

I ‘m not expecting really much from tomorrow patch, the thief needs some serious balancing , otherwise you’ll only , and always , see burst thieves in PvP.

daydream.2938:

Statistically:

Theif is OP: Hot join player, free tourny pugger.
Thief isn’t op: premade tourny player, paid players.

Like I said, the design is clearly broken. Nerfing HS and instagib in general and then buffing thieves so there are alternatives is the obvious right thing to do.

@Mrbig: Thx for the nice reply – this is a much more sensible discussion, to me at least.
I am not sure about if the traits are bad? They just seem to favor one kind of playing (correct me if I am wrong, since I haven’t really been digging in thieves theory-crafting).

Venom-builds and condition-builds are not weaker than all other classes condition-builds (imho), but they suffer from 2 major drawbacks (to my experience, when I played them):
1) Some classes really dominates the conditions-scene
2) They are boring … incredible boring.

I find AoE to be a solid counter to thieves, but it is equally silly … ppl running around spamming AoE with no target. It shouldn’t pay off, but it does.

A nerf to buffs/boons and AoE to accompany a burst-nerf and/or a HP-buff … to have burst landing in a place where it is viable, but not insta-gibbing people would be nice. If people don’t like burst, they should consider the consequences if burst wasn’t there .. that would be incredible dull. But if you nerf boons like stability/vigor/protection, then fear and knockbacks are suddenly very strong. I think active choice of boons, instead of them passively being applied would be a benefit … again to fight the mindlessness.

I completely agree with stealth being too powerful for the Thief. I just resently wrote a topic about it, that compares the Thief from beta, to what it is able to do now: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Defining-Stealth-for-the-Thief

I disagree with the Mesmer being too powerful when it comes to stealth, though. The Mesmers stealth is mostly balanced due to the fact, that you have next to no swiftness or movement speed as a Mesmer. So if foes aren’t fooled by your illusions, and you are trying to run away, your stealth alone won’t save you. In order to be an effective stealth Mesmer, you still have to use a combination of stealth and illusions. Yesterday I saw one Thief running around, being chased by five(!) players. It took them about three minutes before they got him defeated, thanks to stealth, and it was only because the Thief made a mistake. He could have run way at any point.

papaganookitten908:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSH2dKfemj8

Hilarious is all I can say. Never played before and still managed to troll people. 2 button madness.

That was a demo for thieves requiring a boost. Anything that didn’t have 2 people already on them almost killed you by looking your way.

Many of the fights that I have witnessed with a thief actually destroying their target, had their target being totally inexperienced within the situation, being glass cannon or dealing with more than one person in a losing situation.

It’s very simple to counter burst thieves, you just try to create distance, bait them then dodge, utilize blocking or dps mitigation of some sort. Majority of the d/d thieves do not utilise condition removal, which then allows aoe condition spread or imobilize to be used to kill them. You have to remember the simple fact, they use all their 2 cool downs and their elite to buff their damage. If you counter them effectively, you have stopped them from annihilating you.

In essence majority of complaints and cries that “it’s op” are simply people not adapting or understanding the simple ways to counter the class.

Poxxia.1547

Venom-builds and condition-builds are not weaker than all other classes condition-builds (imho),

Opinion has nothing to do with It. Its a matter of fact that they dont perform well in the high end competitive tournaments.
That is what really determines what is, and isnt viable.

papaganookitten908:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSH2dKfemj8

Hilarious is all I can say. Never played before and still managed to troll people. 2 button madness.

The interesting thing is that this ISN’T a demonstration of two buttons.. but regardless of that… it does highlight a key detriment of the thief. That is the horrible options a thief has with his weapon sets.

First, you used your shortbow and inf arrow. Second, you used all of your utility skills. Third, you used your elite skill. Fourth, you used your auotattack skill. Fifth, you used steal, and finally you used heartseeker.

So what was left out? well you didn’t use the thief’s d/d third ability – because its a condition damage evade attack on a direct damage build that literally sucks all of your initiative on one use and thus makes its entirely worthless. You also didn’t use the thiefs d/d fourth ability because it has been nerfed so hard that the initiative cost to use it against the damage output it provides is so grossly out of wack that it is useless.

The point here – alot of the thief’s supposed problems are inherent flawed profession designs. The abilities on that d/d set are gimped with your only recourse really being auto attck or heartseeker… with utilities or cnd being a stealth setup for a unique version of the autoattack. That’s it.

And as someone else pointed out – all of your kills occur with you jumping into a fight that is now unbalanced. you solo’d no one. you would likely have killed no one and been dead every time.. if not for help from teammates.

so nerf the backstab unique autoattack. nerf mug. hell go ahead and further nerf heartseeker. Then the thief can just sit back and commentate the match.

daydream.2938:

Poxxia.1547

Venom-builds and condition-builds are not weaker than all other classes condition-builds (imho),

Opinion has nothing to do with It. Its a matter of fact that they dont perform well in the high end competitive tournaments.
That is what really determines what is, and isnt viable.

I wasn’t really talking to you, since you don’t seem capable of a normal constructive conversation. And you are biased beyond belief. But if you actually READ what I wrote, and could look beyond the “(imho)”, you could perhaps understand what I meant. Is that asking too much, or do you just prefer to be lazy and take things out of context?
Taking things out of context is something we all can do. Please refrain from such absurdities.
Opinion has everything to do with it; Meta is not stationary and this isn’t math/philosophy. Seriously … you should learn exactly how much “opinion” matters.

The closest measure of objectivity we have to balance in this game, IS paid tourny performance. That should be the primary guide, to what is, and what isnt balanced.

My point is that ‘i feel’ or ‘imho’, doesnt inform or tell us much about real balance. The ability to win vs top competition does tell us something.

daydream.2938:

The closest measure of objectivity we have to balance in this game, IS paid tourny performance. That should be the primary guide, to what is, and what isnt balanced.

My point is that ‘i feel’ or ‘imho’, doesnt inform or tell us much about real balance. The ability to win vs top competition does tell us something.

Ah .. but you can’t say “fact is”, since we have no idea what the facts are either. That is based on the assumptions, that the meta is true, which we frankly have no idea about. the number of variables are huge, and my best guess is, that no one really knows entirely what is, and what isn’t possible. The underlying reasons could be way more complicated than the meta suggests. I am frankly not sure what is “the closest measure”, since that turns a very complicated situation into what I think is a false dichotomy. I find it to be infinite more complex and situational.
THAT is why I say “imho”.

Neither do we know, if the ones playing tournaments represent the best playerbase possible … the list is pretty much endless. Tournaments are also based on a certain way for things to happen, whereas it doesn’t really say anything about the balance between the classes if deathmatches were included.
Saying “real balance” again assumes some sort of god-like knowledge of what is right. I am sorry, but I prefer to play it humble .. if you don’t like my wording, then at least try to do the effort of understanding me and at the very least read what I wrote.

Everything is opinions, since you have to interpret the data in some way. The only two fields, that in some way can claim to move beyond that is math and philosphy imho
Peoples opinion of what is viable greatly influences what classes are brought in and hence skews the data.

And finally: Even if a class doesn’t perform well overall, that doesn’t mean that certain aspects are not.

Rika.7249:

Arheundel.6451:

Rika.7249:

mjharrison.3209:

daydream.2938:

Thats my point about the nerf thief threads. thieves are annoying wvw, and hotjoin. I get that, but if u nerf em they would become underpoewred in proper tourny play.

then the design is broken, pure and simple.

Pretty much.

Arenanet believes thieves are effective at flanking and assisting through traps, while delivering massive single target burst.

Thieves can only do that one thing, massive single target burst.

I’d like to see some more dirt-fighting pirate style rather than being made of explosive paper.

So you could have a thief who can participate in a team fight and actually stay alive for a while, of course at the cost of damage.

Hmm…I believe you can already do that perfectly by equipping a soldier amulet ( like the “OP” bunkers) rather than a berseker amulet….

That will make you able to take a single blow more.

That won’t exactly make you stay alive.

I’m talking a trait, perhaps one that incorporates sword in mainhand, that reduces damage taken significantly. And sword, well, we all know sword damage is horrible anyway.

Our current and only role is: Jump in, backstab HSHSHS get out before you’re squished.

What I’d like is an option to have another role: The jump in, fight fight fight fight fight fight no need to leave cuz you die instantly fight fight fight.

So what you’re saying is that you want to play a Guardian or Warrior?

Thieves aren’t supposed to be able to trade blows for an extended period of time, the entire class is based around hit-and-run fighting.

- Massive single-target burst
- Massive mobility in and out of combat
- Can engage, disengage, and re-engage multiple times
- Can escape from nearly any encounter

All of these things are integral to the Thief’s identity and scream “hit-and-run assassin”.

Poxxia.1547:

daydream.2938:

The closest measure of objectivity we have to balance in this game, IS paid tourny performance. That should be the primary guide, to what is, and what isnt balanced.

My point is that ‘i feel’ or ‘imho’, doesnt inform or tell us much about real balance. The ability to win vs top competition does tell us something.

Ah .. but you can’t say “fact is”, since we have no idea what the facts are either. That is based on the assumptions, that the meta is true, which we frankly have no idea about. the number of variables are huge, and my best guess is, that no one really knows entirely what is, and what isn’t possible. The underlying reasons could be way more complicated than the meta suggests. I am frankly not sure what is “the closest measure”, since that turns a very complicated situation into what I think is a false dichotomy. I find it to be infinite more complex and situational.
THAT is why I say “imho”.

Neither do we know, if the ones playing tournaments represent the best playerbase possible … the list is pretty much endless. Tournaments are also based on a certain way for things to happen, whereas it doesn’t really say anything about the balance between the classes if deathmatches were included.
Saying “real balance” again assumes some sort of god-like knowledge of what is right. I am sorry, but I prefer to play it humble .. if you don’t like my wording, then at least try to do the effort of understanding me and at the very least read what I wrote.

Everything is opinions, since you have to interpret the data in some way. The only two fields, that in some way can claim to move beyond that is math and philosphy imho
Peoples opinion of what is viable greatly influences what classes are brought in and hence skews the data.

And finally: Even if a class doesn’t perform well overall, that doesn’t mean that certain aspects are not.

I dont doubt for a second there are team comps/specs that are out there that nobodys using that are amazing.
What im saying is the best emperical guide we have to what works is top end play.

And alot of specs are called unviable, because nobody has found a way to make them work in high end paids. Doesn’t mean its impossible, but it does as scientists say ‘reduce prior uncertainity’ and allows us to have some confidence that some builds arent viable, and others are.

Its not that the meta is immutable law. this isn’t what im claiming and strawmans my positon. ( Besides the meta will change soon anyway because of class balance/bug fixs). What im saying is the meta is the current best understood ways( there is debate about the meta, necro vs ranger for example) of playing the game-because its how top teams ACTUALLY play in order to win. Other ways might be out there, but these are the ways we know work.

daydream.2938:

I dont doubt for a second there are team comps/specs that are out there that nobodys using that are amazing.
What im saying is the best emperical guide we have to what works is top end play.

And alot of specs are called unviable, because nobody has found a way to make them work in high end paids. Doesn’t mean its impossible, but it does as scientists say ‘reduce prior uncertainity’ and allows us to have some confidence that some builds arent viable, and others are.

Its not the meta is immutable law( it will change soon anyway because of class balance/bug fixs). Its to say the meta is the current best understood way of playing the game-because its how top teams ACTUALLY play in order to win. Other ways might be out there, but these are the ways we know work.

The only thing I objected to was you objecting to my “imho”. As a scientist (theoretical physics/applied math) I feel fairly certain to say, that the only places that words such as “truth/fact/proof” have any well defined meaning are in the worlds of math & philosophy. Everywhere else it is opinions and/or interpretations. That is due to how the worlds built in these cases are so well defined and interactions so well accounted for, that it is possible.

And I object to the way you, as I see it, oversimplify complex problems … since simplifying is exactly what it is: An interpretation of what you feel is important. You cut out the variable you find to be unimportant/simple. Hence the bias.

PS: You might actually read what I wrote; I never said anything but thieves not being the weakest condition-class. I never really claimed them to viable, simply due to me not having the skill with a thief to properly judge that. I can however see, that other builds that resemble that functionality are weaker … and they then compensate by bringing other things.

Thief is blatantly mid tier :/

Ele/Guardians/Rangers/Mesmers are much stronger classes.

I agree, every time I fight a thief I’m just completely and utterly overwhelmed by their ability to spam number 2. They are way too overpowered and should be removed from the game.

It’s just like…
>See thief
>enter fight
>thief uses> HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER
> AND I’M DEAD!

Please remove heartseeker as it is clearly OP.

Tots.3056:

I agree, every time I fight a thief I’m just completely and utterly overwhelmed by their ability to spam number 2. They are way too overpowered and should be removed from the game.

It’s just like…
>See thief
>enter fight
>thief uses> HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER
> AND I’M DEAD!

Please remove heartseeker as it is clearly OP.

Thats funny because every time i run into a thief that is heartseker heartseeker , heartseeker. I find that they are dead and im at 90% life.

Heartseeker spammers are the most Delicious of the thief subgroups, placed on the endangered list by overculling.

Oh sorry I was away from the game for a while did they buff heartseeker or something?

Last time I checked HS was nerfed to storm ends and any thief caught spamming it gets laughed and roflstomped out of the match.

lol just started to play a shatter masmer today…guess what it’s really…and i mean REALLY much more easy than playing a thief, i felt a bit surprised too but here it is….also went paids with a spec tried for about one day, no way to do that with a thief…maybe with a war or a guardian, but if you want to play thief at a good level (Not just stomping nabs in hot join, pretty much everyone from r20+ can do it with every class and spec) you need more skills than a guardian or a shatter mesmer (I can only say this bout shatter cuz i only tried it)

Surprise surprise…

Darnis.4056:

Thief is blatantly mid tier :/

Ele/Guardians/Rangers/Mesmers are much stronger classes.

A ranger!? haha.

What you think Ranger’s are weak?
Where have you been?

Are you kidding me right now?
Have you not been playing for the past two months?

Some teams actually dropped their thief/mez for a ranger.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Don’t go lumping us in with thieves on this.

That being said, I agree completely about thieves being overpowered. Even if they don’t win every fight ever (and they don’t), the amount of skill required to do well as a thief is so abysmally small. Being balanced for perfect, zero lag play isn’t fun for everyone else, especially when the thief requires much less skill to play perfectly on alot of their builds.

Yes yes they do *sarcasm. Have you EVER been downed by a thief in a, albeit rare, 1 v1 encounter? No, you haven`t since thieves get you when you`re vulnerable or engaged. That`s what they…that`s what WE do – make heavy use of traits that deal more damage vs people with less than 50% hp or feed of confusion. Meaning we will never be able take down a full hp w/e – with the exception of maybe a really bad ranger. Is that op? Waiting like a beggar for scraps? As for the skill required i dare you to try out a thief in sPvp and pwn, what`s stopping you? Is it the opness or perhaps the gentleman`s manner the people from the opposite team or even your own treat you: “kitten thief, noob thief, i love the sound of a noob tief dying” etc.

Stardrift.7360:

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Don’t go lumping us in with thieves on this.

That being said, I agree completely about thieves being overpowered. Even if they don’t win every fight ever (and they don’t), the amount of skill required to do well as a thief is so abysmally small. Being balanced for perfect, zero lag play isn’t fun for everyone else, especially when the thief requires much less skill to play perfectly on alot of their builds.

Yes yes they do *sarcasm. Have you EVER been downed by a thief in a, albeit rare, 1 v1 encounter? No, you haven`t since thieves get you when you`re vulnerable or engaged. That`s what they…that`s what WE do – make heavy use of traits that deal more damage vs people with less than 50% hp or feed of confusion. Meaning we will never be able take down a full hp w/e – with the exception of maybe a really bad ranger. Is that op? Waiting like a beggar for scraps? As for the skill required i dare you to try out a thief in sPvp and pwn, what`s stopping you? Is it the opness or perhaps the gentleman`s manner the people from the opposite team or even your own treat you: “kitten thief, noob thief, i love the sound of a noob tief dying” etc.

For skill required, I invite you to play a burst build on another profession which got no access to stealth.

daydream.2938:

Tots.3056:

I agree, every time I fight a thief I’m just completely and utterly overwhelmed by their ability to spam number 2. They are way too overpowered and should be removed from the game.

It’s just like…
>See thief
>enter fight
>thief uses> HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER-HEARTSEEKER
> AND I’M DEAD!

Please remove heartseeker as it is clearly OP.

Thats funny because every time i run into a thief that is heartseker heartseeker , heartseeker. I find that they are dead and im at 90% life.

yes when ur fighting some else in spvp the HS spammer will kill u and 90% of the time since thay can burst u from stealth . if ur mid fight with someone else and ur at or close to 50% hp that HS spammer is gonna 2-3 shot u with hs alone

Stardrift.7360:

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Don’t go lumping us in with thieves on this.

That being said, I agree completely about thieves being overpowered. Even if they don’t win every fight ever (and they don’t), the amount of skill required to do well as a thief is so abysmally small. Being balanced for perfect, zero lag play isn’t fun for everyone else, especially when the thief requires much less skill to play perfectly on alot of their builds.

Yes yes they do *sarcasm. Have you EVER been downed by a thief in a, albeit rare, 1 v1 encounter? No, you haven`t since thieves get you when you`re vulnerable or engaged. That`s what they…that`s what WE do – make heavy use of traits that deal more damage vs people with less than 50% hp or feed of confusion. Meaning we will never be able take down a full hp w/e – with the exception of maybe a really bad ranger. Is that op? Waiting like a beggar for scraps? As for the skill required i dare you to try out a thief in sPvp and pwn, what`s stopping you? Is it the opness or perhaps the gentleman`s manner the people from the opposite team or even your own treat you: “kitten thief, noob thief, i love the sound of a noob tief dying” etc.

what crack are u smoking that u imagine a thief cant take a target from full health to 0 in 3sec?? how many youtube videos are their in spvp/Wv3 showing thieves 3shot people? just silly ur comment

I love how thieves complain that burst is all they have, as if that weren’t the case as well for mesmers, warriors.

Or that necros had any viable builds besides well/staff. Or that rangers had only traps bunker BM roamer. Or that engineers had anything besides CC bunkering.

Your class is hardly broken relative to classes like the necro, engineer, or ranger.

Glass cannon player here. (Not thief) I don’t think thief is OP at all. In fact I prefer thief 1v1 before some of these other builds, for the most part I find thief to be easiest classes to deal with.

Phant mes.

Bunker BM ranger.

bunker ele…

All make e shudder.
I thought bunkers weren’t supposed to out last glass…

Let alone outlast Dmg and kill. (Actually bunker eles can’t kill me easy.)

Wow…
If you reach a higher level of competition (paid 2nd or 3rd round) and not zerging in hotjoin, you will soon understand why a-net won’t nerf thief. Because he is not OP in any way. He has his strenghts but also big lacks. Actually thief is in my opinion the hardest class to play.
If you get one-shoted by a thief: you are playing a thief or you’re just bad/ or had no stundbreaker w/e to survive.

Liewec.2896:

i hate to bring up the “WoW” qliche, but their stealth was decent.
you could spot the thief if they went to close infront of you,
and once they hit you they’d have to get out of combat to restealth again,
or use a 2 minute cooldown that let them restealth in combat.

it makes more sense from a realism stand point,
once someones attacked you you’re going to know they’re there.
and it makes more sense from a gameplay standpoint,
because swiping at the air is’nt fun.

You can’t even begin to compare the stealth mechanics of World of Warcraft with this game. Stealth is used for vastly different reasons in both games for starters. In WoW stealth is a way to get the drop on somebody and was used as the combat starter. In Guild Wars stealth is mostly used as a method to escape or reposition which (the latter) is basically all thief is about – positioning and mobility.

And realism? Really? You are speaking of realism in a game where humanoids made of weeds can make 5 clones of themselves and disappear into thin air casting while casting magic – or a tiny goblin can manipulate the elements of the planet and conjure up tornados and rainfall. This is a fantasy game!

if you want realism go play train-simulator.

For the OP: If you are having a problem with stealth play the thief-class for a bit and see for yourself how stealth works and how your mindset is when you use it. That will give you some means to either counter it or to use it to your advantage – that’s the only advice I can give.

urinfamousr.7631:

what crack are u smoking that u imagine a thief cant take a target from full health to 0 in 3sec?? how many youtube videos are their in spvp/Wv3 showing thieves 3shot people? just silly ur comment

I could just insult you since this display of sheer stupidity would exonerate me of any malice. Those videos you saw were either in beta where dancing dagger + 2x death blooms + 2-3 heart seekers would have downed anything from medium armor down OR you saw some WvWvW of thieves getting all worked up after they down some lvl 50 players in masterwork gear. It`s time you get past your preconceptions and form some neural pathways or if u like being ignorant stop pressing Arena net for nerfs.
And

he (thief) is not OP in any way. He has his strenghts but also big lacks. Actually thief is in my opinion the hardest class to play.
If you get one-shoted by a thief: you are playing a thief or you’re just bad/ or had no stundbreaker w/e to survive.

^ Thank you Empathetic Fighter.2065, politeness and sense in one post.

As we have a thread for concentrating thief feedback in order to make it easier to forward your opinions, we decided to close this thread.
The thread I’m talking about can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/
Thanks for your understanding.