Guild Wars 2

Fact A: High access to instant teleport (group teleport) creates unmatched mobility and utility in sPvP.

Fact B: To keep classes somewhat balanced thieves and mesmers would have to perform significantly worse in combat aka deal meh damage (currently damage is way too high) or die very fast (while squishy as kitten they have tons of ways to avoid damage).

Conclusion: Their insane mobility and utility creates an unsolvable problem for the balance team. Either they are OP or extremely frustrating to play. While some classes can catch up with their own forms of OP (cele ele, old engi) or atleast also have some teleports there are classes that are completely left behind like ranger.

Solution A: Make them super squishy again or nerf damage. Yes, no mesmer or thief should be able to even remotely beat an equally skilled lets say ranger in 1on1 or on point. I think this would be a very frustrating solution for thieves/mesmers.

Solution B: Nerf their mobility/utility. Also would create many tears and take away depths from the game imo.

Solution C: Give other classes similiar utility but in form of different mechanics. It has to be really kittening good though to match what thief/mesmer have.

I prefer C.

You realize you can do this for every class? Pointing the advantages out over other classes? Even for ranger:

Fact A: High access to range skills creates unmatched ability to deal damage before receiving some in sPvP.

Fact B: To keep classes somewhat balanced rangers would have to perform significantly worse in combat aka deal meh damage (currently damage is way too high) or die very fast (while squishy as kitten rangers have tons of ways to avoid damage).

Conclusion: Their insane range and damage creates an unsolvable problem for the balance team. Either they are OP or extremely frustrating to play. While some classes can catch up with their own forms of OP (cele ele, old engi) or atleast also have some teleports to catch rangers there are classes that are completely left behind like thieves and mesmers.

Solution A: Make them super squishy again or nerf damage. Yes, no ranger should be able to even remotely beat an equally skilled lets say mesmer in 1on1 or on point. I think this would be a very frustrating solution for rangers.

Solution B: Nerf their range/damage migration. Also would create many tears and take away depths from the game imo.

Solution C: Give other classes similiar range but in form of different mechanics. It has to be really kittening good though to match what rangers have.

I prefer C.

@Dojo:
One sided argument is one sided.

The thing is instant teleporting utility is an actual advantage compared to for example unmatched LB range.

One thing: good

Other thing: meh

Please keep it real. The range is not even remotely as good as the mobility I talked about or we would see LB rangers instead of thieves in top tier.

Very good post OP.
→ A.

It was already like that before.
Thief taken by team for their mobility and mesmer taken for portal. However, they will try their best not to 1v1 anyone else because it is to their disadvantage.

But the mobility and portal don’t affect most unranked/ranked play though. There is not enough coordination to make the benefit work.

I dont think the mentioned classes do particulary well 1v1 on point at equal skill level using metabuilds already now. Issue non existant.

Vieteriukko.6075:

I dont think the mentioned classes do particulary well 1v1 on point at equal skill level using metabuilds already now. Issue non existant.

They cannot keep the point but especially mesmer can easy win 1on1s and cap afterwards. They should literally win no 1on1 with that amount of utility/mobility and I think all classes should have fair 1on1 matchups. So either nerf their mobility/utility or increase utility of other classes imo.

Vieteriukko.6075:

I dont think the mentioned classes do particulary well 1v1 on point at equal skill level using metabuilds already now. Issue non existant.

It is actually more about other burst damage class’s viability, e.g. power ranger.
You need to at least have a very clear advantage over mesmer/thief in 1v1s to be taken by a team. Gimmicks like 1500+ range does not cut it alone.
So you have take sustain classes or zerker that have clear advantage over thief/mesmer like meditation guardian.

Dojo.1867:

Vieteriukko.6075:

I dont think the mentioned classes do particulary well 1v1 on point at equal skill level using metabuilds already now. Issue non existant.

They cannot keep the point but especially mesmer can easy win 1on1s and cap afterwards. They should literally win no 1on1 with that amount of utility/mobility and I think all classes should have fair 1on1 matchups. So either nerf their mobility/utility or increase utility of other classes imo.

Even with current mesmer being a bit over the top, if you lose 1v1 easily to a power based mesmer who takes portal, then your build is simply not working or you just don’t know how to fight the class.

Dojo.1867:

while squishy as kitten they have tons of ways to avoid damage

The greatest secret thieves have to avoid damage…. never leave the spawn area ;-)

Oops… you didn’t hear it from me! :-P

There is no need to mention thief.

Dojo.1867:

Solution A: Make them super squishy again or nerf damage. Yes, no mesmer or thief should be able to even remotely beat an equally skilled lets say ranger in 1on1 or on point. I think this would be a very frustrating solution for thieves/mesmers.

Err, the fact the ranger cant win 1v1 on point vs thief or mesmer actually says more about the Ranger, really..

While I do agree mesmer need a tone down on CI/mantra useage while cc’d, ranger (not power!) should have np 1v1 on point..

Make it so you can only play warrior in PvP, problem solved.

But really, a class is only as good as the person playing it. Some thief’s /mesmers I can take no problem, some thief’s/mesmers burn me down in seconds. Personally, id rather see stealth taken out of the game. It is the most irritating thing about thief’s and mesmers. But it will never happen, and I have to live with it. Or just stop playing PvP. Which I’ll probably end up doing.