Guild Wars 2

forum bug forum bug + 15 naked charrs

nocta.. just to say i just come of a pvp were i was fighting a chronos … he has perma block… its amazing how they can perma block all the atacks… and you say that its fair for a thief to fight that??.. mesmer —perma block-they can go inv- they have clones that atack you—- they can clean condis very fast…….

As one dies(thief), another is born(reve). Its kinda funny and sad at the same time how thieves were waiting for the messiah(daredevil) but soon all will realise that the salvation is called “reroll”.

Shadowstep.6049:

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.

Well, we have that, dueling as D/P SA just takes so much time its not worth fighting the classes we can fight.
Daredevil S/D is also looking good at dueling, heard reports of Toker being able to beat Phanta on his D/D build, and Nos on his cele necro.

Nocta.5274:

Shadowstep.6049:

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.

Well, we have that, dueling as D/P SA just takes so much time its not worth fighting the classes we can fight.
Daredevil S/D is also looking good at dueling, heard reports of Toker being able to beat Phanta on his D/D build, and Nos on his cele necro.

Heard reports of random pugs beating toker on his DD build using various xpac builds.

Stop.

The thief hate is real in you

d/p Sa is the most brain dead spec thieves can pick…
It relys on B/v Soh, Panic strikes, vamp, shadow arts. you are not a thief if you use that —-- you are an AI bot being carried.

you do realize d/p was designed to be the thief’s “Starter” weapon right… that is the main reason it hasn’t been nerfed as much as every other set.

Thieves are a lootbag, you simply need to know how they mechanically funtion to make it so. you can live in denial if you would like but that does not make it true.

Nocta that is perfect insanity, so we have one guy who is learning new mechanics, and one who is remembering how the thief used to play…. who the hell did you think was going to win…

T raw.4658:

Nocta.5274:

Shadowstep.6049:

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.

Well, we have that, dueling as D/P SA just takes so much time its not worth fighting the classes we can fight.
Daredevil S/D is also looking good at dueling, heard reports of Toker being able to beat Phanta on his D/D build, and Nos on his cele necro.

Heard reports of random pugs beating toker on his DD build using various xpac builds.

Stop.

The thief hate is real in you

Heard it directly from Chaithh, and saw the duels against phanta on phanta’s stream in real time.
How I am a thief hater ? I main thief since launch, I try to defend the idea that thief is actually not as bad as people make it to be.

Well i agree that thief puts players to risk playmode without proper reward, problem is thief is still insane in terms of pressure it can make vs enemy team.

REMEMBER! CLASSES in Guildwars2 ARENT balanced around 1v1!!!! they are balanced around 5v5 conquest mode! that means Burnguard is fine cuz you should always have 1 guy in team that shouts to clean burns thats why many of you say old PU mesmer was op, YE it had INSANE dmg but almost no CONDICLEARS, still very meta build cuz it should be always played with shouter in team. Same goes for glint/shiro herald and other builds thief that deals no condi dmg will consider so much more powerful.

You want balance? Make standard formats of “team” and allow players to choose what playstyle they are playing so we wont get 5x guard/ 5x supp / more than 1 thief teams in soloq. By choosing thier playstyle we could reward them around this playstyle like Healers will get bonus points for heal, dps for dps decappers for decaps.

Nocta.5274:

T raw.4658:

Nocta.5274:

Shadowstep.6049:

Nocta.5274:

Try to imagine the life as non thief class if you can lose to thief easily, and that thief can literally run around the map 2 time faster than you.

Do you see any thief asking to buff them to a point that they can easily take out other classes? I don’t.

All thieves ask for is having fair chance vs at least some classes.

Well, we have that, dueling as D/P SA just takes so much time its not worth fighting the classes we can fight.
Daredevil S/D is also looking good at dueling, heard reports of Toker being able to beat Phanta on his D/D build, and Nos on his cele necro.

Heard reports of random pugs beating toker on his DD build using various xpac builds.

Stop.

The thief hate is real in you

Heard it directly from Chaithh, and saw the duels against phanta on phanta’s stream in real time.
How I am a thief hater ? I main thief since launch, I try to defend the idea that thief is actually not as bad as people make it to be.

And what build is he running?

Couldn’t get the detail since it was throught Phanta’s pov, but it was a S/D daredevil build with Bound.

Jana.6831:

Jiggawattz.2697:

Meh, yes and no… I don’t have hope for anything. It is a game and it is their design. I prefer to look at the game objectively and play what I think is best at the time, between my three preferred classes. I just wish others would do the same or stop kittening about balance.

Why should we stop “kittening about balance”? Isn’t that what makes a game great? And in fact that was what anet said about GW2 before launch “we are going to make this game the best balanced on the market” – long time ago, right? I don’t mind to be the underdog, but this is too much to be still called “ok/balance” – and I do wonder if how and when they’re going to fix all of it – not talking about thief only. Right now most classes are faceroll to win – and that is boring.
And I guess we have explained why the balance for thieves is off, I can’t talk for other classes as I play this game for thief (I have all classes but no interest to play them).

Edit: So I can’t say which specific traits make the classes faceroll everything.

A couple of things. One I can tell by the way you speak…. that you are not a high rank player, or even anyone with grounds to talk about what is actually balanced in this game. Two, if every class is “faceroll to win” then how does anyone ever lose? Oh that’s right, its because if every class is “faceroll to win” then the game is fairly balanced. Thirdly you being a tool on the forums is not what makes a game better. Respectfully submitting data that you collect… objective, non opinionated, numerical data that is correlated directly to the balance compared to another class could make a difference, if posted in the correct place, but 90% of this post will be brushed off, because a person with a job to do…aka balancing the game, does not have time to listen to everyone whine about their class and why it needs to be stronger than the other classes. They get most of their data from high end competitive tournament play, so the game is more balanced at that level…. and if you look around the game and say this game isn’t anywhere near balanced… then I have bad news for you, you need to practice and probably shouldn’t waste your time on the forums.

The overall gist of it, is that too many people complain for class buffs, instead of figuring out how to play with what they have, and as we have seen in the most recent ESL, thief can be played at a high end competitive level and serve a valuable roll. That is balance, just cause you die to someone does not make the game imbalanced, it makes you bad.

Nocta.5274:

Couldn’t get the detail since it was throught Phanta’s pov, but it was a S/D daredevil build with Bound.

I’d be surprised if bound became meta over dash.

Mefiq.7039:

Well i agree that thief puts players to risk playmode without proper reward, problem is thief is still insane in terms of pressure it can make vs enemy team.

REMEMBER! CLASSES in Guildwars2 ARENT balanced around 1v1!!!! they are balanced around 5v5 conquest mode! that means Burnguard is fine cuz you should always have 1 guy in team that shouts to clean burns thats why many of you say old PU mesmer was op, YE it had INSANE dmg but almost no CONDICLEARS, still very meta build cuz it should be always played with shouter in team. Same goes for glint/shiro herald and other builds thief that deals no condi dmg will consider so much more powerful.

You want balance? Make standard formats of “team” and allow players to choose what playstyle they are playing so we wont get 5x guard/ 5x supp / more than 1 thief teams in soloq. By choosing thier playstyle we could reward them around this playstyle like Healers will get bonus points for heal, dps for dps decappers for decaps.

I agree with most of this, up until the last part… Having specific queues would devastate queue times, and the idea of giving “healers” points for “healing” is stupid because guild wars is an omniclass game. Nobody is a healer, even the new druid class isn’t a full healer and it was only designed for raids because the WoW kittens came over and polluted our game.

T raw.4658:

Nocta.5274:

Couldn’t get the detail since it was throught Phanta’s pov, but it was a S/D daredevil build with Bound.

I’d be surprised if bound became meta over dash.

Honestly, Bound is forgotten in this beta because its bugged as a blast finisher instead of a Leap one.
Dash is insane for mobility, but Bound will definitely be better for dueling ( it hits for 2k5 crits ). If Bound allow us to be real far harasser, Bound will be taken.

Couldn’t get feedback from Toker himself if he tried Dash over Bound or not.

Honestly I wish Karl used the idea that is floating around in the thief forums, aka, have a F3 that allow us to toggle between the dodges out of combat, which would be the class mechanic ( instead of only being it a 3rd dodge bar ) and add proper Grandmasters which could push the class to be even better.

Nocta.5274:

T raw.4658:

Nocta.5274:

Couldn’t get the detail since it was throught Phanta’s pov, but it was a S/D daredevil build with Bound.

I’d be surprised if bound became meta over dash.

Honestly, Bound is forgotten in this beta because its bugged as a blast finisher instead of a Leap one.
Dash is insane for mobility, but Bound will definitely be better for dueling ( it hits for 2k5 crits ). If Bound allow us to be real far harasser, Bound will be taken.

Couldn’t get feedback from Toker himself if he tried Dash over Bound or not.

Honestly I wish Karl used the idea that is floating around in the thief forums, aka, have a F3 that allow us to toggle between the dodges out of combat, which would be the class mechanic ( instead of only being it a 3rd dodge bar ) and add proper Grandmasters which could push the class to be even better.

Bound is better for dueling over dash. Problem remains though.

Dash puts the decap +1 into over drive. Unless you are winning those 1v1s in,a timely manner it might be better to just stack your best attribute 10 fold

Jiggawattz.2697:

A couple of things. One I can tell by the way you speak…. that you are not a high rank player, or even anyone with grounds to talk about what is actually balanced in this game. Two, if every class is “faceroll to win” then how does anyone ever lose? Oh that’s right, its because if every class is “faceroll to win” then the game is fairly balanced. Thirdly you being a tool on the forums is not what makes a game better. Respectfully submitting data that you collect… objective, non opinionated, numerical data that is correlated directly to the balance compared to another class could make a difference, if posted in the correct place, but 90% of this post will be brushed off, because a person with a job to do…aka balancing the game, does not have time to listen to everyone whine about their class and why it needs to be stronger than the other classes. They get most of their data from high end competitive tournament play, so the game is more balanced at that level…. and if you look around the game and say this game isn’t anywhere near balanced… then I have bad news for you, you need to practice and probably shouldn’t waste your time on the forums.

The overall gist of it, is that too many people complain for class buffs, instead of figuring out how to play with what they have, and as we have seen in the most recent ESL, thief can be played at a high end competitive level and serve a valuable roll. That is balance, just cause you die to someone does not make the game imbalanced, it makes you bad.

I have my preferred game mode in my signature – I already said that I have no interest in pvp (although I play it from time to time) – so congrats figuring out that I’m not into pvp, Einstein.
Peope lose because they make mistakes or because a +1 comes along.

The balance guys should’ve never listened to anyone – it should’ve been clear to them that by making certain traits unavaillable they’re killing off all but one thief build – but somehow tools like me figure it out and they don’t.

Play some wvw – we’re in to kill not to jump around.

I just explained why thief is in the state it is – I never cried for buffs or anything. Don’t believe me? read what I wrote again.

Thief will be ok but, it will still be pigeonholed into decapper and stealth provider.

Jana.6831:

ResJudicator.7916:

A lesser but still noticeable issue behind a lot of thief complaints is that a lot of thief players relied too heavily on stealth and never developed their mechanical skills like timing interrupts, blinds, and dodges. Due to a number of reasons, the “stealth, burst, retreat & repeat” strategy doesn’t work anymore. This means the thief needs to be spot on with his interrupts, blinds, and dodges to survive. This means knowing what your opponent’s skills are so you know what to blind/dodge/interrupt, rather than just random-dodging until your reveal debuff is gone so you can restealth. A thief who knows how to do these things has an advantage over most mesmer builds (especially the portal-PU build used in conquest) while a thief who doesn’t will just get instagibbed.

That’s nice, but tell me what options a thief has got left to be without stealth and to interrupt and dodge?
It has all been nerfed with the June patch.
Only option would’ve been S/D – acrobatics nerfed = not viable anymore.
A decent amount of interrupts and blinds = D/P which needs stealth, SA nerfed + reveal skills = not really viable anymore.
D/D is a stealth build, the weapons alone have no utility, so all has to come from the traits which were heavily nerfed (especially for that weaponset).
P/D got a buff again, but it still relies on stealth and I’m not so sure how good it is without ricochet which was deleted with the June patch.
So it’s nice to hear what you think how thieves should play, the problem is; they can’t.

Maybe with daredevil some of these builds will become viable again and maybe staff will be viable but that would mean that GW2 is becoming a P2W game.

I was really just referring to D/P. The other weapon sets need some tweaking (which I referred to earlier in my post). But D/P has a lot of defensive options outside of stealth for 1v1s via shadowshot. And for offense you can completely lock certain classes (namely necros) out of their heals via interrupts.

ResJudicator.7916:

I was really just referring to D/P. The other weapon sets need some tweaking (which I referred to earlier in my post). But D/P has a lot of defensive options outside of stealth for 1v1s via shadowshot. And for offense you can completely lock certain classes (namely necros) out of their heals via interrupts.

Necros don’t have reveal- I was referring to reveal and you were as well.
Everything D/P has costs a lot of initiative – so in theory a D/P thief has got access to a ton of blinds and daze’s – in reality it’s not that simple and at least engis Lock On has got such a low cooldown that you better don’t try to stealth at all. Problem; stealth is still the only reliable condi remove thief has got. Might change with daredevil as well.

I think Thieves are actually pretty good right now.

DD in current meta would be upgrade for thief for sure. It wouldn’t be OP but it would give him chance in some 1v1 and much better sustain.
In HoT however DD is weak compared to most other elite specs so it will go back to decap bot and +0,5. Yes You won’t be able to count him as equal to other classes. It is sad how some classes didn’t get sensible adjustments between BWE2 and BWE3. It most likely means developers like current state.

I don’t know why whining? Thieves are most dangerous class out there. Hard hitting stealth class. 8k backstabs are not ok so you want insta kill like that rifle bug warrior?

Nobody likes this word but I think I need to write it for you, l2p.

Ragnarox.9601:

I don’t know why whining? Thieves are most dangerous class out there. Hard hitting stealth class. 8k backstabs are not ok so you want insta kill like that rifle bug warrior?

Nobody likes this word but I think I need to write it for you, l2p.

that 8k backstab is situational at best because they can dodge it or have aegis some go invis or pop invuns plus you must stealth and try to position yourself behind them to hit a 8k BS

Thieves are changing and you gotta go with the flow. I would still take any good thief in a party any day. Dare Devil is good but like thief has always been, the player needs to mechanically good to play it. They have the best mobility to decap and assist fights. You will never be a class that can brawl it out on a point in the thick of a fray. It never happened and it wont, it’s a skirmishing class that excels at fighting other dps classes. It flourishes at offpoint fights, that’s its role. A pure bred roaming class and it will always be viable and useful.

Ragnarox.9601:

I don’t know why whining? Thieves are most dangerous class out there. Hard hitting stealth class. 8k backstabs are not ok so you want insta kill like that rifle bug warrior?

Nobody likes this word but I think I need to write it for you, l2p.

for what you wrote i assume you dont play thief a lot… hitting 8k it’s not that easy.. and now almost every good player are using a tanky-damage build…
and btw going inv in a 1 vs 1 battle its not that easy.. cuz when you hit you have the dbuff reveal on you so you can’t go inv at least for a few seconds… remember that for thief.. going inv it’s the only defense we got.. there are a lot of skill that can follow you even when you are inv.. (pewpew)

and more over.. in pvp now it’s really rare to hit 8k with a bkstab only if you are using a really glass build you will get hit by that.. but rangers for example are going with a more tanky build.. so with a crits you do 5k 6k max..
ing now can reveal you…
and daredevil don’t bring to much to the table… actually is really easy to kill a daredevil… the problem its that the others classes are getting to buffed … and the thief is always getting nerfed… we have say this before. but thief need more skill to clean the condi’s.. (that is one of our main problems)…its a bit unfair that all the other classes have skill to take no damage for a few secs lol the revenant he stay inside a circle and he block all the atacks and evade without doing anything, i think revenant its a broken class ..way to easy to play, and the skill that he has can chase you so.. if you shadowstep away its not going to work.. if you go inv.. he chase you with 1 hit more.. (for thief that is almost a good dead)…

now what is the idea of giving the mesmer so many pro in the game..

chronos.. they have almost perma block— they can go inv— they have a skill that reset all the cd and heal yourself again…this saturday i have a match of pvp and the other team was full new classes…. no chance at all to win.. in team fights they just kill us in a easy way-… (reaper 25 stack of might with no effort, plus chronos..the famous one shot of the warrior)

so again we came to the talk of thief yeah they can do a lot of damage, but the risk you have to go to do it is really high, and the other class can do even more damage than you…with no risk at all.. revenant its a class that have a really good movility, a lot of damage, and really good heal skill, plus condi damage ……so let do a vs

revenant: movility-damage-condi-good heal skill …no risk to do high damage
thief: movility- damage or movility- condi … a lot of risk to do high damage

dkayl.6509:

remember that for thief.. going inv it’s the only defense we got..

Strange when I play thief, I have blinds, interrupts, insane mobility, evades, dodges, boon steal, a stun, some condi clear, etc that contribute toward defense.

zinkz.7045:

dkayl.6509:

remember that for thief.. going inv it’s the only defense we got..

Strange when I play thief, I have blinds, interrupts, insane mobility, evades, dodges, boon steal, a stun, some condi clear, etc that contribute toward defense.

.. dodge you can use it but vs the new classes that give like 2 sec without skills… nothing to do.. insane mobility.. there are classes that now have a really good movility and a with no risk involve…condi clear.. really are you joking? the only good condi clear we have its going inv.. cuz the others with the insane 25 staks of burn.. nothing to do …. stun.. ok steal.. basi and if are using pistol in the other hand..the 4. that can daze.. (those skill use way to much initiative .. its better going inv that use the 4, i only use it when i have to interrupt the heal)
and again… for us to do a good damage.. we have to go under a really high risk… but the other classes don’t.. they can do a high damage with no risk at all…and daredevil dont bring much to the table..it’s really easy to kill a daredevil.. more than a normal thief

Ragnarox.9601:

I don’t know why whining? Thieves are most dangerous class out there. Hard hitting stealth class. 8k backstabs are not ok so you want insta kill like that rifle bug warrior?

Nobody likes this word but I think I need to write it for you, l2p.

Do you actually play the game? Thief is not anywhere near the most dangerous. If it is hard for you to fight against, then you might want to use your own L2P advice.

LMAO @ the thought the thieves are the most dangerous class out there….

Please , get real.

They are good at mobility (quick decaps, +1ing teamfights) and ganking a target in teamfights, but thieves go down in an instant if they are caught without stealth for more than a few seconds…..

They lose a lot more duels now with other specs getting buffed….
ALl they can do is get in a few cheap shots/steals , and than they HAVE to stealth out . otherwise they get nuked in 5 secs…. thieves are not scaring anyone nowdays…. they have an extremely niche role (mobility/decaping/ganking a target)….

There are very few good duelers out there with thief to scare anyone in a 1v1 situation….they are not a dangerous class at all….

SkiTz.4590:

LMAO @ the thought the thieves are the most dangerous class out there….

Please , get real.

They are good at mobility (quick decaps, +1ing teamfights) and ganking a target in teamfights, but thieves go down in an instant if they are caught without stealth for more than a few seconds…..

They lose a lot more duels now with other specs getting buffed….
ALl they can do is get in a few cheap shots/steals , and than they HAVE to stealth out . otherwise they get nuked in 5 secs…. thieves are not scaring anyone nowdays…. they have an extremely niche role (mobility/decaping/ganking a target)….

There are very few good duelers out there with thief to scare anyone in a 1v1 situation….they are not a dangerous class at all….

Good thieves reroled to mesmers and eles, because players exploit op classes a lot. thieves were op for more than 2 years so after some balancing you did get what you deserve. Eles are nerfed little by little i hope they balance mesmers in near future.

And yes they are dangerous because you have stealth so yo ucan pick targets to kill. Stop playing like warriors and guardians and use what you got.

Ragnarox.9601:

SkiTz.4590:

LMAO @ the thought the thieves are the most dangerous class out there….

Please , get real.

They are good at mobility (quick decaps, +1ing teamfights) and ganking a target in teamfights, but thieves go down in an instant if they are caught without stealth for more than a few seconds…..

They lose a lot more duels now with other specs getting buffed….
ALl they can do is get in a few cheap shots/steals , and than they HAVE to stealth out . otherwise they get nuked in 5 secs…. thieves are not scaring anyone nowdays…. they have an extremely niche role (mobility/decaping/ganking a target)….

There are very few good duelers out there with thief to scare anyone in a 1v1 situation….they are not a dangerous class at all….

Good thieves reroled to mesmers and eles, because players exploit op classes a lot. thieves were op for more than 2 years so after some balancing you did get what you deserve. Eles are nerfed little by little i hope they balance mesmers in near future.

And yes they are dangerous because you have stealth so yo ucan pick targets to kill. Stop playing like warriors and guardians and use what you got.

Mesmer is more dangerous right now out of stealth than a thief can even dream about….

Unless the target is already debuffed (vuln stacks, slowly dying, being focused on by others, chain cc’d , etc etc) the thief is not scaring anyone

in a fair 1v1, thief is not dropping anyone straight out of stealth unless that person is afk or just embarassingly bad….

Yes thieves can stilll gank you when you least suspect it in WvW…. but that’s been their role for 3 years…. what did their elite spec do for them? nothing, since the spec had nothing to do with stealth, which is thieves strongest playstyle….. they now got left in the dust compared to other classes….the powercreep with other professions new spec have made them all WAY more formidable against a thief burst out of stealth….

all thieves can do now is try to gank them, and if it fails, stealth and run away, try again later….
Daredevil is just flat out weak….

Yes Ragnarox we deserved to get blown out of pvp all together and be forced to run around capping points and not fighting. Cause that’s fun right?

i went to pvp to play player vs player not player vs cap point. plus didnt anet say they didnt want any class to have a specific role

Anet said they wanted Thief to be the prime duelist. Yep. I said it. I pulled history. Now go look up the original videos. >.< I’m lazy.

Serious Thought.5394:

Anet said they wanted Thief to be the prime duelist. Yep. I said it. I pulled history. Now go look up the original videos. >.< I’m lazy.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they really said this, and theif was a prime duelist for a long time.
You have to remember current balance is also dictated by how Conquest mode is played. I don’t think they knew what Thief’s role would end up being when they designed it with the idea of making it this good duelist.

I wouldn’t mind a little help for us in this domain ( because it’s really hard to duel people of equal skill these days ) but too much help could be really destructive to the main game mode.

Ragnarox.9601:

SkiTz.4590:

LMAO @ the thought the thieves are the most dangerous class out there….

Please , get real.

They are good at mobility (quick decaps, +1ing teamfights) and ganking a target in teamfights, but thieves go down in an instant if they are caught without stealth for more than a few seconds…..

They lose a lot more duels now with other specs getting buffed….
ALl they can do is get in a few cheap shots/steals , and than they HAVE to stealth out . otherwise they get nuked in 5 secs…. thieves are not scaring anyone nowdays…. they have an extremely niche role (mobility/decaping/ganking a target)….

There are very few good duelers out there with thief to scare anyone in a 1v1 situation….they are not a dangerous class at all….

Good thieves reroled to mesmers and eles, because players exploit op classes a lot. thieves were op for more than 2 years so after some balancing you did get what you deserve. Eles are nerfed little by little i hope they balance mesmers in near future.

And yes they are dangerous because you have stealth so yo ucan pick targets to kill. Stop playing like warriors and guardians and use what you got.

Your reasoning is poor, but not unique to the general mindset.

Thieves did not deserve to be nerfed into the role of an add. No class -deserves- that, even if they were what you would call ‘op’ beforehand.

The fact that you acknowledge that good thieves rerolled, and yet continue to assert that thieves are fine astounds me. We doing doublethink now?

Common sense would dictate that the experienced players suddenly rerolling means there’s something off with the class. You dont suddenly drop a class simply because another class becomes more dangerous. Something must also be fundamentally wrong with the class you originally had to spur you to leave.

I can pick my targets without stealth. Thieves know not to facetank by nature of the class, we’ve always been squishy.

Quit your generic line of reasoning for a second.

Folks, while I think the thief class has many problems, it’s still very effective in many cases.

I have been playing a hybrid/celestial P/D build for ages now and it works great in “most” situations. The build is designed to be a skirmishing thief where you combine raw power with conditions with a focus on sustain. While I can’t burst folks, I can typically outlast them. In cases where I know I won’t win, it’s easy to stealth away and reset the fight to my liking.

This build is not, and will never be “meta” but it works well for me.