Guild Wars 2

This was something I encountered today, it was annoying, but pretty minor.

A thief can simply stack stealth, run condi, and dodge roll in the path of door breakers and basically kill them without much chance of stopping the thief.

#JustStrongholdThings

The thief whines will reach a new level on SH

As a WvW main I hope to god perma-stealth, perma-reset or condi thieves become the meta in Stronghold and get nerfed into ground.

RlyOsim.2497:

As a WvW main I hope to god perma-stealth, perma-reset or condi thieves become the meta in Stronghold and get nerfed into ground.

And Shadow Arts got buffed in HoT. I sure hope that it will get nerfed.

Not sure if sarcastic…

I meant long-term (as if there is any other way with Anet!).

Funny how people cry from perma stealth in forums yet I am yet to see a perma stealth thief. As a thief myself who always goes after the enemy thief/ranger in spvp and so far winning most fight offs i haven’t seen a perma stealth thief. Thief that stealths and runs away – certainly! A thief that stacks leap combo finishers? Obviously. Hide in Shadows heal thief? More than half of them have this but do you know what? Anything other than shadow refuge lasts 2-3 seconds (you can get extra second if you kitten up your build with shadow arts), it is super easy to wait out 2 second for the thief, especially if you have access to swiftness/gap closers.

Its not like stealth prevents you from taking damage. And if you let a thief combo leap around you without stepping in the blind field or cleaving around it, its all on you.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Funny how people cry from perma stealth in forums yet I am yet to see a perma stealth thief.

Because you play Conquest mode.

The thing with Conquest mode is that it inherently punished stealth’by not counting you towards the capture point. Building for a lot of stealth is cute and all, but you will constantly lose points.

In WvW stealth builds have been a plague since launch. And now that Stronghold is comming up and there is no longer a mechanic punishing stealth anymore, expect to see a lot of these Thieves pop up in spvp as well.

So i agree with RlyOsim. It’s been a cheesy playstyle that has been largely ignored and left to troll around simply because it didn’t bother spvp. But soon enough it will and hopefully this will finally attract the attention it deserves from the devs.

As a thief main, I have never understood why they didn’t make the revealed debuff trigger every time you exit stealth, whether you attack or not. I’m sure it would be a simple fix to do.

I can see how stealth thieves dropping caltrops can be annoying, but it is not completely uncounterable. Of course, if it did become a big problem, they could always add a very small damage component to caltrops to de-stealth the thief?

lol i was playing a true-perma stealth caltrop thief afew months back (just for the lulz)
it would be hilarious if it became meta,
a whole team of invisible thieves stacking 25 bleeds on point XD

Skill splits………………………….

Only Caltrops?

I use Shortbow and stacks Poison also…they melt in seconds.

Terrahero.9358:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Funny how people cry from perma stealth in forums yet I am yet to see a perma stealth thief.

Because you play Conquest mode.

The thing with Conquest mode is that it inherently punished stealth’by not counting you towards the capture point. Building for a lot of stealth is cute and all, but you will constantly lose points.

In WvW stealth builds have been a plague since launch. And now that Stronghold is comming up and there is no longer a mechanic punishing stealth anymore, expect to see a lot of these Thieves pop up in spvp as well.

So i agree with RlyOsim. It’s been a cheesy playstyle that has been largely ignored and left to troll around simply because it didn’t bother spvp. But soon enough it will and hopefully this will finally attract the attention it deserves from the devs.

It’s strong for defense lane but the situation will never be as bad as in WvW because of the lack of dire stats and the longer revealed debuff.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Only Caltrops?

I use Shortbow and stacks Poison also…they melt in seconds.

As far as I am aware Choking Gas now has a damage component and destealths you.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Only Caltrops?

I use Shortbow and stacks Poison also…they melt in seconds.

The shortbow arrow does some damage when it hits the ground so it would de-stealth the thief.

With caltrops and caltrops on dodge-roll, these do not deal any physical damage so the thief can stay stealthed and dodge through the NPCs to kill them without much chance of stopping it.

If caltrops and caltrops on dodge had a tiny dmg amount added to it, would fix the issue.

Rin.1046:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Only Caltrops?

I use Shortbow and stacks Poison also…they melt in seconds.

As far as I am aware Choking Gas now has a damage component and destealths you.

Zietlogik.6208:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Only Caltrops?

I use Shortbow and stacks Poison also…they melt in seconds.

The shortbow arrow does some damage when it hits the ground so it would de-stealth the thief.

With caltrops and caltrops on dodge-roll, these do not deal any physical damage so the thief can stay stealthed and dodge through the NPCs to kill them without much chance of stopping it.

If caltrops and caltrops on dodge had a tiny dmg amount added to it, would fix the issue.

My point was, you don’t need to stealth at all since stealthing doesn’t add any value on what you’re trying to accomplish.

All they need to do (and they DO need to do) is add like a minior 100 damage to the laying of the caltrops so you can’t spam it in stealth. I abused this in my comp last SH and it’s super cheese mode. Not to mention being able to stack conditions while stealthed shouldn’t be allowed regardless. (Unfortunately mesmers can do it too, but are much less effective when doing so, so it’s not as much of a problem.)

Zietlogik.6208:

This was something I encountered today, it was annoying, but pretty minor.

A thief can simply stack stealth, run condi, and dodge roll in the path of door breakers and basically kill them without much chance of stopping the thief.

#JustStrongholdThings

Better get use to it because Josh already anticipates seeing a lot of perma stealth builds for SH, which means they are not going to do anything about this poor design mechanic.

First of all … stealth, or more specifically, perma stealth thieves (IE: D/P spamming 5 → 2222) have actually been nerfed, and to say that “Nothing has been done about it” is just plain ignorant.

Secondly, caltrops are only “overpowered” vs AI that actually sits there and stands in them, where as they are infinitely harder to use against players. I love how little to no complaints about them have ever popped up until there is a game mode in which they have more use compared to trying to use them against players, which without objective circles on the ground to contest … sheesh, I don’t even.

Anyway, my favorite part of this is now that they are so suddenly OP that they need a “fix” which the suggested immediate damage “fix” would render them completely useless for a thief. Because having a trait to drop them while trying to evade an attack that can still hit them even while in stealth would end up revealing them which would likely get them killed anyway. It’s completely counter intuitive, especially for a stealth based class.

If you honestly think adding immediate damage to caltrops so that thieves will reveal themselves constantly is somehow good … well, honestly that just screams lrn2play issues to me right there. In case you didn’t know, friendly NPCS can be healed and buffed up with boons, as well as condi cleansed by players!

I can promise you the super duper amazingly unfair uber OP caltrops aren’t actually as bad as you think they are if someone comes equipped with the ability to condi cleanse their allies, let alone buff them and heal them.

Just sayn’, I fought some teams who had that going for them. Makes things quite a bit more difficult, and considering this isn’t Conquest, maaaaaaaaaaaybe you should reconsider build / team build for this aspect of the game instead of suggesting to “fix” something that no one had problems with prior to it actually having a place in the game where it’s more useful.

Lol and here comes the thieves defending stealth caltrops. Classic.

Not good vs. decent AOE condi cleanse. Shoutbow, ele, elixir gun, and more counter this pretty hard.

ronpierce.2760:

Lol and here comes the thieves defending stealth caltrops. Classic.

Yep, those dirty, little thieves! It’s not as though they are limited to just a few seconds of stealth… or one dependable method of condition clearing… or the smallest base health pool in the game.

My goodness, you’d think that they believed you could actually see their location by AoE rings left behind by caltrops!

The sneaky, little buggers even claim to be as squishy as the skritt bombers they try to bleed to death instead of the tanky lord-like beings they truly are!

Rumor has it that the thief profession was based on Chuck Norris, and I believe it. After all, only a thief has the power to kill another thief! I would petition for a nerf, but it has been scientifically proven that such a thing is hazardous for your health!

Kageseigi.2150:

ronpierce.2760:

Lol and here comes the thieves defending stealth caltrops. Classic.

Yep, those dirty, little thieves! It’s not as though they are limited to just a few seconds of stealth… or one dependable method of condition clearing… or the smallest base health pool in the game.

My goodness, you’d think that they believed you could actually see their location by AoE rings left behind by caltrops!

The sneaky, little buggers even claim to be as squishy as the skritt bombers they try to bleed to death instead of the tanky lord-like beings they truly are!

Rumor has it that the thief profession was based on Chuck Norris, and I believe it. After all, only a thief has the power to kill another thief! I would petition for a nerf, but it has been scientifically proven that such a thing is hazardous for your health!

You seem desperate. I’ll let you get back to your ninjas, but it wouldn’t hurt caltrops to get a damage component to not allow it to be stealth spammed. There’s a reason they gave it to choking gas. Cheap is cheap. You’ll be alright without it, I’d imagine.

ronpierce.2760:

Kageseigi.2150:

ronpierce.2760:

Lol and here comes the thieves defending stealth caltrops. Classic.

Yep, those dirty, little thieves! It’s not as though they are limited to just a few seconds of stealth… or one dependable method of condition clearing… or the smallest base health pool in the game.

My goodness, you’d think that they believed you could actually see their location by AoE rings left behind by caltrops!

The sneaky, little buggers even claim to be as squishy as the skritt bombers they try to bleed to death instead of the tanky lord-like beings they truly are!

Rumor has it that the thief profession was based on Chuck Norris, and I believe it. After all, only a thief has the power to kill another thief! I would petition for a nerf, but it has been scientifically proven that such a thing is hazardous for your health!

You seem desperate. I’ll let you get back to your ninjas, but it wouldn’t hurt caltrops to get a damage component to not allow it to be stealth spammed. There’s a reason they gave it to choking gas. Cheap is cheap. You’ll be alright without it, I’d imagine.

Honestly thief is not as hard as it used to be. D/p meta has a ton of crutches with condi removal, a lot of stealth, withdraw etc. S/D felt like a more prestigious build since it required knowing when to dodge (altho ya dodge spam) and you only had a little bit of stealth. The condi s/d build brings down s/d to the level of panic strike since most people don’t expect it and it obliterates many classes if they dont take condi removal.

ronpierce.2760:

You seem desperate. I’ll let you get back to your ninjas, but it wouldn’t hurt caltrops to get a damage component to not allow it to be stealth spammed. There’s a reason they gave it to choking gas. Cheap is cheap. You’ll be alright without it, I’d imagine.

If I were desperate, I would play a profession that could survive getting hit by more than 3 attacks without going down.

It does seem odd that you only argue with insults rather than by actually addressing the issues I stated.

If you don’t like bleeding, then move out of the AoE ring. Whether the thief is invisible or not, that makes no difference. There are substantial differences between Caltrops and Choking Gas. The poison field can be spammed, and it also does not give away a thief’s position. The Caltrops utility has a significant cooldown. The traited caltrops is just that… a perk based on endurance. Both give away a thief’s position. Neither can be spammed.

You act as though thieves can stay invisible forever. The caltrops themselves last longer than a thief can stay in stealth.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish anyway? If caltrops do reveal a thief, it means you already got caught in them. You’re already crippled. If he runs away, you’re not going to catch him. The trait is called “uncatchable” for a reason. If he attacks, he’s going to catch you anyway. If he’s a stealth/condi build, you’re better off worrying about the bleeding instead of his other attacks.

Stealth/condi thieves are an annoyance. That is their role. If they kill you, then adjust your build to survive conditions. Problem solved. Then they will be forced to change to power builds in order to kill you. Then you can kill them in five attacks.

Jesiah.2457:

…snip…

I agree, Jesiah. I do not think it will be as big a problem as some are suggesting. If you have someone defending the doorbreakers, they will likely have heals and cleanses to assist them. I am sure once the thief realises their caltrops are achieving nothing they will try a different tactic.

The reason I suggested a small damage component, was ONLY if stealth caltrops became an problem, but like you I do not think it will be.

ronpierce.2760:

All they need to do (and they DO need to do) is add like a minior 100 damage to the laying of the caltrops so you can’t spam it in stealth.

ronpierce.2760:

Lol and here comes the thieves defending stealth caltrops. Classic.

Or people just think things through, the reason they don’t put damage to add a reveal on caltrops is it would be unusable because thieves at times have to dodge whilst in stealth, e.g – if a thief uses shadow refuge is low on health they will need to dodge to survive until shadow refuge finishes, so if caltrops had a damage component that revealed them the opponent(s) would just trigger the caltrops and reveal the thief.

Now this was in WvW but, I watched a thief ganking yaks by nothing more than chaining together CoD. Virtually he was perma stealthed the whole time. A little whisp was all one could see. So adding Caltrops is just icing on the cake.

#workingasintended #infraction