Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense, while they can focus entirely on the offensive because stealth is already a strong defensive mechanic and their attacks can be spammed thx to initiative
Hold on…..why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody, run faster than anybody, decap better than anybody and stealth reset any fight?
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..but I want to keep stealth so I can run away easy if I ever happen to lose and I want to still have stealth so I can always engage first and never be taken by surprise, I still want initiative so I can easily access what I need when I need and..huh..give me some nuclear bombs and planetary laser cannon access just for good measure, thx"
Btw people seems to forget about pistol whip era and lyssa rune god thief before that; at that time thief wasn’t that “rare” in PvP was it?…..yeah thx god the devs didn’t forget about that
Yeah give thieves the ability to 1vs1 tanky specs while keeping stealth and initiative…LIKE HELL
P.S let’s not conveniently forget about all the specs that thieves have always kept out of PvP, WvW..TY
I think you need to take a breather and stop with the thief hate. All classes had periods of “OMG God Mode NERF NOW!” Yes even rangers had it in all of it’s brain deadness glory. But….
You remember on release those God Mode D/D eles who would completely carry a match winning it and never dying!!! Forget going back to that era thank god the Devs fixed that and NEVER bring it back!!!!!!
Wait….hold on minute……aren’t we stacking 3-4 eles a team now? Was thief ever stacked 3-4 a team?
The past is the past get over it
Valkyrie d/d ele with 13k HP carrying match?… when did you start play the game? few months ago?
Really pointless retaliation…..It’s really simple, just give up stealth, you can keep your initiative, mobility whatever; then you can ask anet to make you like ele 2.0
I really don’t care if you want a “beautiful” tanky spec to partake in a never-ending 1vs1 in the far corner of the map to satisfy your e-kitten…just remove STEALTH then you can play duellist hero all you want
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-
Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
This is just a great example of how statistics can be skewed to one’s beliefs (not fact) and interpreted incorrectly. In particular, when sampling populations the data always has to be selected at chance [i.e. random] and compared against reliable control groups. Not to mention 100 games is an insignificant sampling size. Interesting points, but this really doesn’t tell us anything other than your personal experience, which may have been drastically skewed by the fact you were already playing a thief. If I were to summarize my experience I would find a favorable portion involves thiefs, but that would again simply be my direct experience - not a representation of the much larger populations’.
This is just a great example of how statistics can be skewed to one’s beliefs (not fact) and interpreted incorrectly. In particular, when sampling populations the data always has to be selected at chance [i.e. random] and compared against reliable control groups. Not to mention 100 games is an insignificant sampling size. Interesting points, but this really doesn’t tell us anything other than your personal experience, which may have been drastically skewed by the fact you were already playing a thief. If I were to summarize my experience I would find a favorable portion involves thiefs, but that would again simply be my direct experience – not a representation of the much larger populations’.
True true – but you have to take his agenda into account. And seen in that light it makes perfectly sense to do what he did.
But then again: Using our own experience is valid – one should just not mistake it for quantitative data.
PS: People seem to completely forget how many builds are pushed out by thieves already. Huge flaw.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense, while they can focus entirely on the offensive because stealth is already a strong defensive mechanic and their attacks can be spammed thx to initiative
Hold on…..why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody, run faster than anybody, decap better than anybody and stealth reset any fight?
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..but I want to keep stealth so I can run away easy if I ever happen to lose and I want to still have stealth so I can always engage first and never be taken by surprise, I still want initiative so I can easily access what I need when I need and..huh..give me some nuclear bombs and planetary laser cannon access just for good measure, thx"
Btw people seems to forget about pistol whip era and lyssa rune god thief before that; at that time thief wasn’t that “rare” in PvP was it?…..yeah thx god the devs didn’t forget about that
Yeah give thieves the ability to 1vs1 tanky specs while keeping stealth and initiative…LIKE HELL
P.S let’s not conveniently forget about all the specs that thieves have always kept out of PvP, WvW..TY
I think you need to take a breather and stop with the thief hate. All classes had periods of “OMG God Mode NERF NOW!” Yes even rangers had it in all of it’s brain deadness glory. But….
You remember on release those God Mode D/D eles who would completely carry a match winning it and never dying!!! Forget going back to that era thank god the Devs fixed that and NEVER bring it back!!!!!!
Wait….hold on minute……aren’t we stacking 3-4 eles a team now? Was thief ever stacked 3-4 a team?
The past is the past get over it
Valkyrie d/d ele with 13k HP carrying match?… when did you start play the game? few months ago?
Really pointless retaliation…..It’s really simple, just give up stealth, you can keep your initiative, mobility whatever; then you can ask anet to make you like ele 2.0
I really don’t care if you want a “beautiful” tanky spec to partake in a never-ending 1vs1 in the far corner of the map to satisfy your e-kitten…just remove STEALTH then you can play duellist hero all you want
Since release and I remember the “big nerf” that forced eles out of the meta. Thieves have never been deemed by anet to get nerfed out of the meta.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-
Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-
Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
… looking at the thieves-forum at a thread called “thief vs necros?”. Not all thieves seem to feel so UP as some of the more vocal ones do, it seems. I wonder how necro’s feel about fighting thieves kittenet the match at will – are they entertained, is it fun to fight? And why is that relevant to thieves, you may ask … .’
@shadowstep: Don’t act all surprised – if you look at your own forum , many thieves have said, that they can face certain warrior and mesmer-builds (meta-builds, that is) with success. The disbelief is not real – and in my eyes not credible anymore.
I like the current D/P SA meta for thief, I find it rewarding to play. Not every thief feels unhappy about the state of the class.
Especially since Daredevil si looking to bring back a strong S/D build, which is really nice.
The class has issues, but it’s not unplayable, its even really good at what it does, most people just don’t like doing, well, what thief has to do.
Well necro vs thief is completely dependent on what build the necro is running (obviously) and whether or not they have any death shroud up. Roll up on a glass necro with no death shroud; basically dead instantly. Cele condi signet is tough if they have shroud, but doable without. Sustain necro just takes forever to kill.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that *must* invest in defense-
Hold on.....*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like...:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = "want to win against tank specs". Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with - albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (*war/ranger/mesmer*/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
wat? are we playing same game?
Haha, I think so. War is simply a wait out the stances game, blind spam> dead; ranger is wait out the signet of stone > blind spam > interrupt > dead; Mesmer is the toughest of the three, but shatter Mesmer vs thief at least is more of the balanced match-ups with it maybe being 55/45 depending on who you talk to; but in general when it comes to looking at meta power builds, thieves are arguably #1/2.
Well necro vs thief is completely dependent on what build the necro is running (obviously) and whether or not they have any death shroud up. Roll up on a glass necro with no death shroud; basically dead instantly. Cele condi signet is tough if they have shroud, but doable without. Sustain necro just takes forever to kill.
Assuming it was to me – then yep, that is my take on it as well.
Well necro vs thief is completely dependent on what build the necro is running (obviously) and whether or not they have any death shroud up. Roll up on a glass necro with no death shroud; basically dead instantly. Cele condi signet is tough if they have shroud, but doable without. Sustain necro just takes forever to kill.
Assuming it was to me – then yep, that is my take on it as well.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-
Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
wat? are we playing same game?
Haha, I think so. War is simply a wait out the stances game, blind spam> dead; ranger is wait out the signet of stone > blind spam > interrupt > dead; Mesmer is the toughest of the three, but shatter Mesmer vs thief at least is more of the balanced match-ups with it maybe being 55/45 depending on who you talk to; but in general when it comes to looking at meta power builds, thieves are arguably #1/2.
I think the current Meta ranger build has a slight advantage against Thief because of how overtuned Taunt is. Rangers can set up some deadly combos with it that you won’t be able to lame out.
The advantage for Thief lies in how powerful the stolen item from rangers is IMO.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
wat? are we playing same game?
Thief should beat zerk/marauder warrior and mesmer easily. You are correct in terms of ranger though: Survival, nature, beast mastery ranger is basically unbeatable as thief and builds without nature magic still have a favorable 1v1 match up but I don’t see how ranger even matters as it is literally the worst pvp class in the current pvp environment and sucks at everything but 1v1.
Thieves asking to efficiently 1vs1 all other classes that must invest in defense-
Hold on…..*why the hell should I even play any other profession if a thief can simply 1vs1 anybody
Like…:" Oh KK dear devs I want the defensive options to 1vs1 that tanky guy..
We dont even have the sustain to 1v1 the dps specs right now. Just thought I’d mention that.
This is strawmanning. asking for general 1v1 sustain does not = “want to win against tank specs”. Stealth does nothing for us at the moment combat wise but delay death.
Really? What pure-dps specs do you have trouble with (maybe burst guard or burst engi, but even then they can be dealt with – albeit at a slower pace)? Thieves dominate most power builds (war/ranger/mesmer/other thieves) and struggle vs high condi-pressure builds (condi engi, condi necro) or sustain builds (d/d ele, tank necro/etc). I agree thief is certainly boring to play at the moment, but it is hardly underpowered and every top tier team has 1 for a reason.
wat? are we playing same game?
Haha, I think so. War is simply a wait out the stances game, blind spam> dead; ranger is wait out the signet of stone > blind spam > interrupt > dead; Mesmer is the toughest of the three, but shatter Mesmer vs thief at least is more of the balanced match-ups with it maybe being 55/45 depending on who you talk to; but in general when it comes to looking at meta power builds, thieves are arguably #1/2.
I think the current Meta ranger build has a slight advantage against Thief because of how overtuned Taunt is. Rangers can set up some deadly combos with it that you won’t be able to lame out.
The advantage for Thief lies in how powerful the stolen item from rangers is IMO.
Yea, I agree – if we’re talking about just straight up 1v1’ing though then you should have something (like shadowstep) available to break the taunt as the only other stuns are easy to dodge (hilt bash and/or pet leap if they’re running canines) and if you get knock backed by longbow 4 then you should save your steal for that (since they are more than likely going to start channeling rapid fire next). In actual pvp matches though where you’re bouncing from point to point it definitely is easy to get blown up by a ranger if you get caught on a taunt with no stun break. The water field is definitely nice, but against a power ranger it’s not as useful compared to against trap/condi ranger; which should still lose to thief but is a more lengthy fight to win overall (usually have to SR/reset/longbow poke/etc).
If you play perfectly. any mistake causes you to down, but winning is possible and I like the risk. I agree here.
ranger
??? Taunt breaks all thief heals except malice.
mesmer
???
other thieves
This is a given since these matchups are largely skill based
We’re struggling against everyone else. Condi pressure wrecks us. Sustain builds are unkillable (not that I care), but even power builds outsustain us.
If we had a small window of opportunity that allowed us to win if we played perfect vs other classes, I would be fine. But that isnt the case. We have to stack as much damage as possible, cross our fingers and hope we catch someone off guard before they pop their instant cast block and passively retal/burn us to death.
Its not high risk, high reward anymore. Its high risk, no reward vs. too many specs.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
If you lose 1v1 vs a thief you we’re out played by a large margin and had a really BAD team who left you there for the ages it took to kill you.
Thief has the advantage over no class atm. If you are losing on point to a thief it’s entirely because you aren’t as good as that thief player….by a large margin too
It’s a very high risk, high reward and going in for a kill is often chancy as you have to guess what build the player is packing. The way you fight players as a thief drastically depends on their build. Nothing kittenes me off more as playing a thief and getting SURPRISED you die moment. You see an axe/dagger ranger, thinking, “condi trap, easy” and SURPRISE he’s actually full power and you wasted your life trying to bait the traps out.
I find thief an amazing class to practice with as it’s rewards and punishments are very clear. It really helped me master the positioning and escapes on my elementalist.
As for hardcore PvP, it’s a patient play style I don’t like playing.
Thieves are one of the most common classes I see in pvp, I can’t ever really play thief when I solo que due to having another and having to duo thief which is ugh.
Can’t win team fight’s without me; can’t hold points without me. #BunkerGuardLife
Teszla
