Guild Wars 2

I honestly don’t see why it would be so bad if thief were on the lower end of the damage spectrum amongst the classes. Then all of these abilities to me would seem perfectly warranted. The attacks would have to be timed right, using stealth and whatnot to whittle their foes away slowly. It would challenge all thief’s to play on a higher level, to think and plan ahead, strategize. Then I could actually see it as one of the harder classes to play and master. Wouldn’t be able to just run into a spvp group fight and spam away, kill a few people, then run away untouched and unseen.

Yes needs a nerf cant see them coming they unload death in a few seconds. Takes zero skill to do it.

I say the only answer is take away the initiative system and give them regular cool downs like everyone else. If they give out the right cool downs nerfs might not even be needed

this post needs to be closed, to many cry babies who dont play the class and dont understand how hard it actually is to play a thief the right way. Everyone is QQ cause they play a spec that doesnt have enough defense to take a hit. I main thief cause its fun… I also have 1 of every single class. I don’t have any issues what so ever with BS spec’ed thief in any class. I take the time to learn the class I have the most problems with and know how to counter it. I’m sorry if u guys are bad and don’t want to take the time to learn how to play the right way. All of thief burst is in the first 2-3s, you survive that you win the fight 100% the time end of discussion

Seragi.5910:

this post needs to be closed, to many cry babies who dont play the class and dont understand how hard it actually is to play a thief the right way. Everyone is QQ cause they play a spec that doesnt have enough defense to take a hit. I main thief cause its fun… I also have 1 of every single class. I don’t have any issues what so ever with BS spec’ed thief in any class. I take the time to learn the class I have the most problems with and know how to counter it. I’m sorry if u guys are bad and don’t want to take the time to learn how to play the right way. All of thief burst is in the first 2-3s, you survive that you win the fight 100% the time end of discussion

I play a thief, if my burst combo does not drop them or get them in the health level i can finish them off…. I get away and come back in 5-10 seconds then end it.

I have seen champion shadows do these with perfection you cant kill them you can only survive them and wait to die.

Learn to play if you are dying 100% of the time when your burst fails.

you completely misread my post. I have no problems on my thief lol. Also I have never lost to a thief on any other class, and if I did die the thief didnt get away alive either. The people crying about thiefs just need to take more time and learn how to counter them better.

I understood your post I just don’t believe you. Based on the comment that if burst fails its a 100% win. That smells like a comment made by a bad thief or someone that just does not pvp, because thiefs have a ton of get out of town options. Only a faceroll bad player dies evertime burst fails on a thief.

ok you can stop replying now, cause your completely missing the point. If you can survive the initial burst and the thief has to fall back and blow defensive cd to stay alive thats a win. I’m not saying thief lose if there burst fails, trust me I play main thief . I know all the tricks to stay alive and how to reattack after initial burst if player isnt already dead. I’m simply trying to help the players who are having trouble with thiefs.

Seragi.5910:

If you can survive the initial burst and the thief has to fall back and blow defensive cd to stay alive thats a win. I’m not saying thief lose if there burst fails, trust me I play main thief . I know all the tricks to stay alive and how to reattack after initial burst if player isnt already dead. I’m simply trying to help the players who are having trouble with thiefs.

You call that a win? Just living against a class is a win…..

Man did I call that one or did I call it.

Thief players logic is outstanding…….
So a person uses a stun break on a 40+ second timer and lives.

Super skilled ninja thief /s “OMG my burst failed !!(#!#!#@ now I have to leave for a few seconds and comeback to kill him QQ”

Few seconds later “man Im a super skilled ninja that other guy was a noob he did not even break my stun LOL”

Xom.9264:

Seragi.5910:

If you can survive the initial burst and the thief has to fall back and blow defensive cd to stay alive thats a win. I’m not saying thief lose if there burst fails, trust me I play main thief . I know all the tricks to stay alive and how to reattack after initial burst if player isnt already dead. I’m simply trying to help the players who are having trouble with thiefs.

You call that a win? Just living against a class is a win…..

Man did I call that one or did I call it.

Thief players logic is outstanding…….
So a person uses a stun break on a 40+ second timer and lives.

Super skilled ninja thief /s “OMG my burst failed !!(#!#!#@ now I have to leave for a few seconds and comeback to kill him QQ”

Few seconds later “man Im a super skilled ninja that other guy was a noob he did not even break my stun LOL”

Im sorry your a bad player but thats what it comes down to. Go talk to the people who do paid tourny competitively. Ask them how to deal with a BS spec thief, they will laugh in your face. The reality of it is thiefs are one of the weakest classes in the game. if you cant kill someone who has 14k health with 900 armor then you sir need to log off and delete your account. Thiefs get hit harder then any other class in the game often times die to stray AoE damage… the reason they hit so hard is because thier survivability is so low. If you dont know how to counter a 3s stealth then you need to stop playing. All stealth last 3s spec’d up to 4s besides shadow refuge which has an outline showing where thay are… not to mention after attacking form stealth they get globaled for 4s.

Ever heard of “predicting” thieves? Or is putting Marks on the ground so hard for a Necro? Must be hard when the game wasn’t meant for casuals huh.

In high level play, Necros are broken as hell. And to anyone who thinks I’m wrong, actually try to fight competitive people in tPvP.

Schwahrheit.4203:

In high level play, Necros are broken as hell. And to anyone who thinks I’m wrong, actually try to fight competitive people in tPvP.

Well you are wrong buddy, data shows thieves in high level tpvp are doing better then necros and most classes

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Statistics/first#post769717

Sure it was just a player that made the data but I’m leaning towards it being true based on the last patch…. Also I expect more thief and mesmer fixes in the future after the next batch of data is collected and im sure Anet is collecting it.

Dont waste your time making this a Necro are OP thread I doubt anyone will agree with you OP classes tend to get played alot by FoTM kids like yourself and the data does not back up your claims.

sorry but there is no data collection what so ever, all that info is based on biased kids who only contribute what they see

First, spammable heartseeker always moves him behind of your back. Noone can spam dodge.
Second, most of the time thief is invisible.

Thief’s damage is not a problem now. The problem is – other professions can not target him for their attacks. Direct damage sucks against thief.

As a fellow mesmer, you have more f-keys other than f1, try pressing them. Even pre-nerf you shouldn’t have had problems with thiefs.

You’re talking about high initiation (“Get In”), extreme Burst (“Kill”), and high durability (“Get Out”), that makes a class overpowered.

Incomplete, because its get-in | burst | get-out | be useless. And what does that have to do with “durability”, getting out doesn’t necessarily require you to endure anything (teleport, stealth…).

Seragi.5910:

sorry but there is no data collection what so ever, all that info is based on biased kids who only contribute what they see

Right, that’s your response the default call everyone that does not agree with you ‘kids’ comment.

You just got kitten slapped with the truth backed up by data, have a nice day.

I love when all the defensive mechanisms kick in, and ppl start to trash-talk, or dig up the l2p-card. This thread is nice requiem to the game … you can’t cure the community.

Why should we not trust the data given? I do … I find them quite fascinating. Yes, the sample is not perfect, but big enough to not be dismissed.

If you as thief don’t know when to get out or restealth, then maybe the class is not for you? I have seen better thieves resetting the fight repeatedly until all my cd’s were down.

@Seragi: What we see is all we have. Every sort of data is seen by someone. It is interpreted by someone.
Even better: You claim you never lose to anyone on your thief … and you never lose to a thief on any of your other classes. So … you are the best player in the game? Let us for a second assume, that that is true: You are an outstanding player standing alone on the peak of the mountain … no one else is coming near your skills … should the game be balanced around your skills? And you obviously fail in realizing the kind of issues other ppl have.

I do btw completely agree with Xae … and no, I don’t have an issue with surviving a thief 1vs1 with cd’s up if he is dumb enough to stick around. But many thieves do know how and when to get out and in again. If you don’t know how to do that .. I suggest you learn to play this “hard & unrewarding class”.

Poxxia.1547:

I don’t have an issue with surviving a thief 1vs1 with cd’s up if he is dumb enough to stick around. But many thieves do know how and when to get out and in again. If you don’t know how to do that .. I suggest you learn to play this “hard & unrewarding class”.

There you have it, thiefs just because some people are no longer dying in 3 seconds too you is not an indication thief is a hopeless weak class. Use one of many get out of jail free cards, the players defensive cooldowns are done you will kill them next burst combo. Thief is still OP and an instant 3 second win vs people without all the 40+ second cooldowns up.

After 3 nerfs some ppl still have the guts to complain about one build ? Any class/build can be countered do we really need the l2p strat again ?

offence.4726:

After 3 nerfs some ppl still have the guts to complain about one build ? Any class/build can be countered do we really need the l2p strat again ?

Did you read the last “nerf”? They nerfed the completely wrong abilities. The thiefs “go to specc” is still up and running almost completely unchanged.

What we had before was a state where the glass cannons were strong and the bunkers were strong as well. Now we are in a state where the glass cannons can reign supreme because the bunkers just isn’t strong enough to withstand them as well.
Granted, a lot of paid teams are going more towards the “team fighting” builds with necromancers/engineers/mesmers. But it does not change the state of glass cannons.

Tanknastole.3617:

Dear Anet and Thief players,
i recetly joined Free tournament and encountered a thief in first game that completly ruined mine whole game experience. Why? Sorry but when someone can kill me with 3 hits that is not even bad thats is simply frustrating.

Heres just one picture before i left spvp, think it explains all.
http://i.imgur.com/3034g.jpg

I and all my friends dont play spvp just becouse this, i hope someday it will be fixed.

Honestly players

Why do these topics never end? No it is not that thieves are OP, it is you that runs a glass canon without any stunbreaks/blinds/blocks/etc. BS thief is almost never a problem in tpvp environment, since there is no use for them except for stealing a boss. Also this

Some folks simply dont want to understand nor do they want to learn how to counter some specs. People complain about glass cannon thieves with 14k hp that have been nerfed again and again. Its alot easier to log into the forums and qq about something then to learn to counter it. This topic has been explained to death just stop it please.

firstly its thieves not thiefs

secondly, thieves now dropped from tpvp meta.

Pistolwhip was never OP it didn’t warrant a nerf.

Cluster Bomb was the only way for a thief to participate in a team fight since he dies instantly from aoe

Nerf to cloak and dagger ruined all balanced and x/d builds

ilJumperMT.4871:

firstly its thieves not thiefs

secondly, thieves now dropped from tpvp meta.

Pistolwhip was never OP it didn’t warrant a nerf.

Cluster Bomb was the only way for a thief to participate in a team fight since he dies instantly from aoe

Nerf to cloak and dagger ruined all balanced and x/d builds

This!!.. Or not so much this

Thief players logic is outstanding…….
So a person uses a stun break on a 40+ second timer and lives…
Few seconds later “man Im a super skilled ninja that other guy was a noob he did not even break my stun LOL”

Exactly how many stuns do you think thieves have, just out of curiosity.

Lol. Well, it’s this build or, “Stealth, here but you’re blinded, stealth, here but you’re blinded, steal, heal, here but you’re blinded, stealth, THREE second stun, here but you’re blinded, lol ur ded”

Seriously, whatever they’re doing, they’re blinding faster than I can hit. So I hit once to clear the blind before my bigger attacks, but boom, blinded again, big attack fails, I’m dead.

It’s a joke.

Anyone saying Thieves aren’t good because of the nerfs are ignoring glaringly broken skills.

i though rogue in WOW was incredibly OP with his opening and stunlock (not always ofc, in some patches, mainly in Vanila and TBC)… now i know that it is possible to make something even more OP

where is thiefs weakness? stealth on many abilities which provides defense and escape, many controls, many gap closers, incredible damage… its just silly concept overall :/

Run from a thief….not sure if serious or trolling !!!!

people talk like thief can only stealth 1 or 2 times in a fight….

and stealth still can be stacked wich is ridiculous

anyone know thief is the farm class, anyone that want win very quick rank/glory just pick a thief, reason why hot join is full of them.

if i was new to game and join some hot joins to play pvp in 1-2 days i just have leave the game forever, is almost insane the quantity of thieves we see on hot join and for some reason thief must love others thieves because if a team have 2-3 thieves they will be all together and that is just a nightmare and take all fun from hot join that is the only way new player can do spvp

go free tournament with pugs? out of question unless you have lucky and fight another random team otherwise you will be completly smash.

Being killed by a thief is a learn to play issue. Every class has utility skills to thwart thieves. These skills not only thwart thieves but every bursty class.

People are just mad that they are attacking someone and get this feeling of winning. All of a sudden they are taken from 60% life to 0% by a thief because they were tunneling what they thought was a win. Any class specced burst can take someone in this scenario.

I enjoy how people complain about D/D thieves when the most powerful and unstoppable thief build involves P/D. A good P/D build thief will DoT, heal while stealth and face melt your teammate at the same time.

I do not play a thief.

People act like every thief encounter is a 1v1 with all abilities up and you see each other coming. In spvp, the only problems i ever have with thief are always when I’m fighting someone else. Having a good 1v1 fight and your around 60-70% health and you just drop dead out of nowhere and there’s the thief and there’s little you could have done.

Tanknastole.3617:

Dear Anet and Thief players,
i recetly joined Free tournament and encountered a thief in first game that completly ruined mine whole game experience. Why? Sorry but when someone can kill me with 3 hits that is not even bad thats is simply frustrating.

Heres just one picture before i left spvp, think it explains all.
http://i.imgur.com/3034g.jpg

I and all my friends dont play spvp just becouse this, i hope someday it will be fixed.

Honestly players

Those numbers are stupid. No one, not no profession should be putting out those numbers. People who play thieves will say garbage like “dodge out if it, pop you stun breaker” and crap like that but the fact is by the time you try any of that, you’re either dead or near death already. Thieves are ridiculous and beyond defendable at this point. Meanwhile they nerf necros and buff warriors, again. I have little faith in anet’s ability to balance anything because I believe someone at the top of the food chain is calling the shots. No way this is a group or unanimous design decision. This has to be the result of an office bully pushing his/ her biased design down. No one can justify this profession in its current state.

obsolete.4879:

Being killed by a thief is a learn to play issue. Every class has utility skills to thwart thieves. These skills not only thwart thieves but every bursty class.

People are just mad that they are attacking someone and get this feeling of winning. All of a sudden they are taken from 60% life to 0% by a thief because they were tunneling what they thought was a win. Any class specced burst can take someone in this scenario.

I enjoy how people complain about D/D thieves when the most powerful and unstoppable thief build involves P/D. A good P/D build thief will DoT, heal while stealth and face melt your teammate at the same time.

I do not play a thief.

So says the thief.

Monarch.4026:

So says the thief.

Actually I play Warrior and Ranger. I can beat thieves on my Ranger pathetically easy. D/D isn’t even a thief’s strongest build.

Raijinn.9065:

People act like every thief encounter is a 1v1 with all abilities up and you see each other coming. In spvp, the only problems i ever have with thief are always when I’m fighting someone else. Having a good 1v1 fight and your around 60-70% health and you just drop dead out of nowhere and there’s the thief and there’s little you could have done.

Say that when you meet a 100B warrior at 60% health. The point was, any glassy burst has the ability to knock someone out at less than full health and defensive cool downs. This is why guardian shines as a bunker build, you simply cant burst them down.

The only viable option to all of you who want another nerf on the Thief, is to get rid of initiative and just put cooldowns. Now this is a HUGE change and I doubt Anet will do it since there is SO much integrated with initiative. All i can say is change your current build to absorb all that damage to reduce the initiative or just use a MESMER. ive played both Mesmer and Thief.

ps. Clones = wasted initiative = Mesmer win

Raytek.6193:

How are backstab thieves ruining tournaments then? Because they have burst and you aren’t dodging, using a stun breaker, or have any kind of defense in your build?

Let me stop you right there.
Thieves can kill you with 3 instant cast abilities (a skilled hand could shoot them off in about 2 seconds) from stealth.
You don’t see them coming and the average human mind doesn’t have time to react to them.
You shouldn’t be forced to run a bunker build to avoid dying to thieves — no other glass cannon can open from a stealth and destroy you before you even knew that was coming.
You can always see them coming for you and as such you can prepare yourself.
All this goes out the window against a thief, as I found out and proved (I made a video about it, but due to a problem with my PC I lost the video, so I plan to remake it).

As a Condition Bunker Mesmer I hold a natural advantage over thieves, but if I can’t see it coming then even with my 2.5k armour (in WvW, toughness/condition gear) I can’t tank their damage.
Luckily I have an easy escape tool with my staff 2 ability, which I hit the moment I lose a large chunk of health, and this gets me back into the fight, but the fact that thieves hold this unfair advantage over every other class is the problem.

And for the record, a Toughness Guardian (full toughness/vitil gear, toughness build) got hit with a 21k backstab post-nerf. His health pool was 19k.
You can find his screenshot in the thief forums (anet responded to it, saying they’d look into why BS can now hit so hard).
Now tell me the backstab build isn’t an overpowered mess that needs to be looked into.

Never mind, I found it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf

Notice this was posted 20 days ago (before the nerfs). Also, this is a 8-9k crit backstab.

Zorak.1254:

The only viable option to all of you who want another nerf on the Thief, is to get rid of initiative and just put cooldowns. Now this is a HUGE change and I doubt Anet will do it since there is SO much integrated with initiative. All i can say is change your current build to absorb all that damage to reduce the initiative or just use a MESMER. ive played both Mesmer and Thief.

ps. Clones = wasted initiative = Mesmer win

clones = wasted initiative???!!!! you must fight some really newbies thieves, i bet those thieves even use steal when some necro put all marks on ground around him. this thieves are easy to klll the good ones if you dont see them appear you are 90% dead.

call target will be on you forever unless you have some steal skill, as a mesmer you probably just have one steal skill (utility) so any good thief know easy where is the real mesmer.

even if thief didnt use call target you cant to sides or back because illusions dont move like that and you are very easy to spot, obvious against newbie players they will atack everything that moves and dont even know to dodge our simple combo to kill them.

if you are a mesmer and run canon glass build (wich most of us use) you can be killled in 1-2s, any good thief will not gonna confused you with clones…..

The problem is that other classes glass cannon specs arent really glass cannons.

Thief and warrior players love to tell other professions to learn2dodge but I never see other classes telling them to ‘learn 2 dodge’ because the other professions’ glass cannon specs dont actually have the ability to do 20k burst, not in under 3 seconds.

Other classes need to either be buffed to where their glass cannon specs can actually do the same thing or thief burst needs more nerf.

I would personally rather see a bunch of real glass cannons at least the fight is more fair. Especially since ANet already nerfed bunkers harder than they nerfed burst when the only reason bunker builds exist is because thief and warrior burst is too high.

100B does about 15-25k in 3-4 seconds. Only difference is you usually see it coming. It is on a short cool down, even shorter when specced properly. Warriors have more life and heavy armor mind you.

25k?

Doubtful, a more realistic number would be 10-15k.

interferenz.8739:

As i read the thiefs comments here in this thread – i only can laugh.

• Really – should this vid be a help to counter a thief? If you are already in a fight and a thief joins the fight – i want to see you how to stunbreak within 0,25sec – as shown in this vid. Ridiculous.
• We should do other builds just to survive backstab-thiefs? Come on! Dont be childish.
• I dont get the sense of a pvp-game where its possible for 1 class to kill an enemy within 1-1,5secs without the need of any skill. Just press 3 buttons … and you are done.
  Thats not PvP!
  And even if you use your stunbreaker (if available) – you have to use your heal-skill immediatly – wow … and now the thief goes in stealth and attacks a few secs later again. Thats PvP how it should be .. .yeah .. right. Oo
• Why should a thief do such high damage? And please dont say — “hey the warrior does high kittenoo”. He hasn’t got stealth, its easy to dodge bulls-rush, the only high-damage skills are 100blades(may not move) and eviscerade (high CD).
  Its very easy to avoid these skills.
• Ah – and if you wanna play your thief really good – just spam 2, you dont even have to follow the enemy – you’ll get an auto-follow for free.

• Tbh, you just sound ignorant and you’re too radical, not thinking things over. Have you tried playing a thief? I can bet you haven’t tried it seriously.
• Yes, if they catch you, you die. It would be kitten unbalanced if they could not kill you (presumably on low health and with cooldowns) while they have all their skills off-cooldown and they specced every kitten trait/stat for full offense.
• No, to survive them, you only need 1 defensive utility with any profession, after that they cannot really kill you head on (if you’re not worn down).
• Yeah, the combo is fairly poor design, not much to do about it though. But that does not make it unbalanced. Eventually you would realize that it doesn’t matter if you have to hit 3 or 8 buttons for a burst, it’s still the same burst, it’d change nothing. This is a cheesy build not focused on winning “fair” 1v1s but ganking, don’t except it to be your “PvP”.
• Then again, you’re terribly mistaken about warriors too. Main damage of greatsword (vs. not dumb enemies) comes from auto-attacks and the whirling skill on number #3. Bull’s charge combo is just not very viable (especially as an opener) in proper 1v1s. Oh, warriors have 19k HP, thieves have 12k (without amulets) not even talking about armor differences. Thieves need stealth to escape burst, otherwise they’d just die in seconds.
• You know it does less dps than auto-attacks above 50%, right?

I recommend you try out classes before claiming stuff like that about them, as you know, we, all humans, tend to see the enemy more powerful to get excuses for our loss/fail.

Xae.7204:

25k?
Doubtful, a more realistic number would be 10-15k.

15-25k – Completely realistic and happens consistently with 57% crit + 20% crit buff. It is also a range for a reason.

I have never seen 25k, care to enlighten me with a screen shot?

Some people clearly don’t know what they’re talking about , nowdays after the cnd comkittenf u can never get higher then 5-6k. Stop it with the thief your just embarassing yourself now.

Thieves need a big nerf bat to hit their damage. Tpvp is ridiculous, 90% of the games you play against at least 2 thieve premade teams!! I would like to get some statistics on how much the thieves are represented in terms of percentages in tpvp I feel around 25% for just this one class (I wonder why). Only people defending the crazy thief burst are those who are thieves (for a reason). When one class has burst and stealth that is a lethal combo.
I play necro tank with siphon wells, 2.2k toughness with healing power good enough to heal 10k within a few seconds and I play well, can tank 2-3 people for a good amount of time. Comes one thieve and necro dead no challenge. I am not exaggerating, one thieve, I am no noob I am proficient in many mmos (before people start shouting about my post), but you can clearly see when something is imbalanced, bursting up to 15k in 2-4 seconds from stealth is not fair, outshines all the other classes. You dont see people complain about any other class this much but thieve.

I agree that the class should be provided with more versatility, but the burst has to go, insane burst has to go. Heartseeker doing 7-8k damage, or backstab? at least warrior lethal shot can be dodged! Get really people, no matter how skillful you are no play can beat godmode in any game.

Liver.3560:

Thieves need a big nerf bat to hit their damage. Tpvp is ridiculous, 90% of the games you play against at least 2 thieve premade teams!! I would like to get some statistics on how much the thieves are represented in terms of percentages in tpvp I feel around 25% for just this one class (I wonder why). Only people defending the crazy thief burst are those who are thieves (for a reason). When one class has burst and stealth that is a lethal combo.
I play necro tank with siphon wells, 2.2k toughness with healing power good enough to heal 10k within a few seconds and I play well, can tank 2-3 people for a good amount of time. Comes one thieve and necro dead no challenge. I am not exaggerating, one thieve, I am no noob I am proficient in many mmos (before people start shouting about my post), but you can clearly see when something is imbalanced, bursting up to 15k in 2-4 seconds from stealth is not fair, outshines all the other classes. You dont see people complain about any other class this much but thieve.

I agree that the class should be provided with more versatility, but the burst has to go, insane burst has to go. Heartseeker doing 7-8k damage, or backstab? at least warrior lethal shot can be dodged! Get really people, no matter how skillful you are no play can beat godmode in any game.

Well I am a necromancer too, but strangely do not have any problems with thieves while Tpvping. Either your build is total crap when fighting close range bursters (healing is not the way to go – the dmg must be avoided other ways) , or you are just not that good as you think you are. Necromancers are probably one of the easiest classes to win when fighting a BS thief. Death shroud/blinds/stunbreakers/ even 2/3 elites help you destroy a thief taking almost no dmg yourself.

Also I like the lie you said that 90% of premade teams have 2+ thieves – it made me lol. I have played 200+ tournaments, and only time I see more than 1 thief is when we are at the first map playing pure random teams. Most of the premade that I have encountered teams either have 1 thief or more commonly 0 and that 1 is not a BS, but a bleeder.

It’s an issue with the class.

If you nerf the ability down to reasonable levels, the whole point of it is lost.

Therefore, the issue is with the design of the build. Stealth classes in MMOs should never be burst damage classes, especially when they have a stealth mechanic that cannot be removed by any skills nor damage.

The Thief, itself, is broken in design, in these kinds of builds. I’d find it funny if they turned Heartseeker into a root that lasts four seconds, like Hundred Blades.

I think Thief dmg is a little high for how unstoppable it is.

Steal+c&d+backstab=90% of my hps with high toughness.
When a warrior charges+hundred blades, there’s plenty of time to hit a stun break. I’m typically dead by the thief before i’ve reacted unless it’s a 1v1, and i’m waiting just for that move.

If you guys actually PvPed you would understand that D/D CnD backstab thieves aren’t the build you should be worried about. It is the P/D thieves that heal while in stealth that will own you every time.

CnD D/D backstab builds took a significant nerf to damage. I would like to see post nerf screen shots of someone getting 100%-0% by a thief in 2-3 buttons. Please also post build and skill bar.

@obsolete here is my build for a thief post nerf. it works quite well still.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYIQNAoYVlUmKO3ey5E95Ex2DfqTe6fgs6MoZLB;TsAg0CnoUyokQJrSOlkKtGZkxsAA

you can get quite alot of might and fury after you steal. you will have 65% crit damage after you steal for about 12s (60% before) and about 5 to 7 stacks of might which will last you the entire combo. this makes up for the loss of 50 power in your traits and the loss of 165 power from using the scholar runes. Edit: you MUST apply Assassin Signet before the combo to apply the 5 stacks of might.

let me know what you think…