Guild Wars 2

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

You act as if d/d Ele can’t do the same thing except tank 2 people at a time LOL

And don’t even use “squishy” as an excuse for d/d ele. You can take earth instead of fire and prove my point.

SB 5 decap only works if no one is on the point, not like Thieves can 1 vs 1, actual decap like Engineers did a year ago was nerfed.

Everyone who is thinking about playing thief has to realize that he has to do this job. Also he gos for low targets, interrupts stomps, rez and stomps himself. so you have allways somthing to do.
Also a thief is, because of his mobility, his stealth, something that is really important and must be in your mind when you build up your team.
Maybe you are not that good in 1 on 1. but why make the thief like everything else. this is part of the difersity. im fine with it.

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

this ^^

style.6173:

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

this ^^

You’ve missed the point entirely. Any decent thief would not engage at that node and go +1 a team fight (since +1 is created by guy doing nothing at node) via ganks and res.

OP, removing this role from thief would require a massive overhaul of the class that would likely kitten off as many people that it would please.

Spurrlock.3219:

style.6173:

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

this ^^

You’ve missed the point entirely. Any decent thief would not engage at that node and go +1 a team fight (since +1 is created by guy doing nothing at node) via ganks and res.

OP, removing this role from thief would require a massive overhaul of the class that would likely kitten off as many people that it would please.

You dont have to leave it just watch it and make it back in time to stop the decap.

Thief literally does nothing all game long besides become a non factor in a team fight unless you have a distinct inability to XvX on your team.

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

Lets not get into “a good/bad player can do X/Y vs Z class” because we will get anywhere, cuz likewise I can say a good thief will 1v1 and win and there is no way of proving/disproving that. I could also say a sign of bad players is not recognizing the strenght of thieves, and again, that will take us nowhere.

Lets analyze this from a holistic, unbiase point of view. You made a point of saying “a thief cant uncap an unguarded point” so lets take it from there; if a poit is guarded, that means an enemy is there, so the thief will not go, that means that on other sides of the map, it is a 4v5 fight, since the person guarding the point cant leave or else the point gets uncapped.

I cant think of a class faster than thief outside combat, which means that by the time you get to the base the thief is uncapping, he will be gone, and capping time takes longer than uncapping, therefore that person either sits on point, or remains forever going back and forth, chasing a ghost.

Lets take the supposedly strongest team that won the last Pro competition; 4 D/D eles and 1 decap thief. Even there, the strength of a thief surpasses that which another D/D ele would’ve offered. If you go back to all competitions, there can be a very vaiated team, but NEVER missing a thief for the for aforementioned reasons.

if you honestly think thats ok, then perhaps your sense of what’s balanced or not needs some reviewing.

Fortus.6175:

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

Lets not get into “a good/bad player can do X/Y vs Z class” because we will get anywhere, cuz likewise I can say a good thief will 1v1 and win and there is no way of proving/disproving that. I could also say a sign of bad players is not recognizing the strenght of thieves, and again, that will take us nowhere.

Lets analyze this from a holistic, unbiase point of view. You made a point of saying “a thief cant uncap an unguarded point” so lets take it from there; if a poit is guarded, that means an enemy is there, so the thief will not go, that means that on other sides of the map, it is a 4v5 fight, since the person guarding the point cant leave or else the point gets uncapped.

I cant think of a class faster than thief outside combat, which means that by the time you get to the base the thief is uncapping, he will be gone, and capping time takes longer than uncapping, therefore that person either sits on point, or remains forever going back and forth, chasing a ghost.

Lets take the supposedly strongest team that won the last Pro competition; 4 D/D eles and 1 decap thief. Even there, the strength of a thief surpasses that which another D/D ele would’ve offered. If you go back to all competitions, there can be a very vaiated team, but NEVER missing a thief for the for aforementioned reasons.

if you honestly think thats ok, then perhaps your sense of what’s balanced or not needs some reviewing.

No its understood by just about everyone right now. You should not be losing 1v1’s to any thief in this game. If you find you are losing 1v1’s to thieves then you are the problem. You alone.

I took the liberty to bold a few things in your post. As you can see you are contradicting the 1st statement with the last paragraph. I appreciate the replies and would enjoy further educating you, but I feel you won’t drop your bias to actually have the discussion.

Fortus.6175:

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

Lets not get into “a good/bad player can do X/Y vs Z class” because we will get anywhere, cuz likewise I can say a good thief will 1v1 and win and there is no way of proving/disproving that. I could also say a sign of bad players is not recognizing the strenght of thieves, and again, that will take us nowhere.

Lets analyze this from a holistic, unbiase point of view. You made a point of saying “a thief cant uncap an unguarded point” so lets take it from there; if a poit is guarded, that means an enemy is there, so the thief will not go, that means that on other sides of the map, it is a 4v5 fight, since the person guarding the point cant leave or else the point gets uncapped.

I cant think of a class faster than thief outside combat, which means that by the time you get to the base the thief is uncapping, he will be gone, and capping time takes longer than uncapping, therefore that person either sits on point, or remains forever going back and forth, chasing a ghost.

Lets take the supposedly strongest team that won the last Pro competition; 4 D/D eles and 1 decap thief. Even there, the strength of a thief surpasses that which another D/D ele would’ve offered. If you go back to all competitions, there can be a very vaiated team, but NEVER missing a thief for the for aforementioned reasons.

if you honestly think thats ok, then perhaps your sense of what’s balanced or not needs some reviewing.

You can guard a point by not being at it. You simply return to the point if there is a risk of it being decaped.

The argument being presented is that it is impossible to catch up to a thief in a scenario to prevent a decap, which is not true.

thieves op btw
/s

an example of how op thieves can be.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3p7zdo/tifu_by_getting_tricked_in_pvp/

/s

Shockwave.1230:

You can guard a point by not being at it. You simply return to the point if there is a risk of it being decaped.

The argument being presented is that it is impossible to catch up to a thief in a scenario to prevent a decap, which is not true.

That’s just not true for every profession. Unless you have a mesmer port or a FGS, you’re not making it from the team fight at node B to the thief decapping at node A.

If what you said was true, then thieves would have no place in the meta.

Here’s something everyone keeps forgetting

Unless you are making a fight out numbered in your favor a thief is a liability. Meaning 3 v 2+Thief has the thief team losing.

Spurrlock.3219:

Shockwave.1230:

You can guard a point by not being at it. You simply return to the point if there is a risk of it being decaped.

The argument being presented is that it is impossible to catch up to a thief in a scenario to prevent a decap, which is not true.

That’s just not true for every profession. Unless you have a mesmer port or a FGS, you’re not making it from the team fight at node B to the thief decapping at node A.

If what you said was true, then thieves would have no place in the meta.

I agree up to a point. However, I disagree that it’s not true for every profession in all situations. That said it’s unlikely for a Necro (few mobility options) to save a cap vs a thief, though not impossible in every situation, just most.

Positioning and not wasting your mobility skills can allow most anyone to defend a node while not being at it.
As a most basic example this is suited well to ranged damage builds of course, but can apply to other builds as well.

Fortus.6175:

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Thief mains tend to say that the profession is in a bad spot because its current role in SPvP simply isn’t very much fun. Is it an effective role? Absolutely, assuming you can keep yourself moving and decapping undefended points 24/7. It’s still not very fun, if your goal is having satisfying fights against other players. It’s also a lot less effective in solo queue (where you can’t trust the competence or teamwork of your teammates), but that’s neither here or there.

Shortbow #5 is the fulcrum that the entire profession is balanced around in SPvP at the moment. I would very much like to see this change, but it would require a thorough revamping of the Thief profession that I don’t think ArenaNet has the resources or inclination to deliver.

Wait, we asking for thief nerfs or what…?

If someone is guarding YOUR home the fight will be 4v4. If the other team wish to push on your home then that’s the risk they take in being outnumbered, likewise if you do the same to them. If you leave your home undefended to outnumber them, then that’s a risk you take, they could be doing the same to you as well. It’s more about good map awareness and tactics than just oh, go +1 them.

Oh and remember, to go +1 somewhere, you have to -1 everywhere else…

Fortus.6175:

snip

Teef hate has finally reached ridiculous mass…

The GW2 community has turned the class into an annonying but harmless mosquito that has only it’s mobility. Now you want to take the last remaining task off PvP’s waterboy.

How do you imagine a thief class that is on par and unique with the rest of the classes?

Whenever I go to soloQ, which isn’t much these days I might add, it strikes me, that there are 2 things I have to be aware of with the classes I prefer:
- Does my build survive thieves? Even if there is by far more flexibility when it comes to thieves, thieves still has the capability to reach and open on you no matter how you position yourself. There are some "if"’s and "but"’s, but that is the general picture.

- Does my build do well vs burn – is there sufficient condi-removal? Specifically burn-guard does set the bar in this regard.

I am not saying any of these are OP or whatever. I am just saying, that we/I have internalised this procedure to an extend, where I am barely aware that I am taking these precautions – it has become a “natural” mindset. Sure there are counters, but that is even more so an integral part of the mindset. Is this something we/I prefer?

Thieves SB5 is a bit in the same category. I can understand why some thieves don’t want to be where they are atm, but what I can’t understand is why some deny the strength of SB – if it was so horrible, what would there be to loose it? Surely there must be some sort of hypocrisy? I also see a lot of debate among thieves regarding how strong they are at their current role. The more vocal ones being the ones who complain the most (naturally) about the class as entity being utterly useless. What we have is some sort of dispute about who is a valid authority on the matter – personally I find, that if a thief is good to carry in soloQ and if it is used by high end teams, it can’t be useless in these settings – in this environment called conquest. But again, this is only what I see – I am not an authority.

are you Still anti thief fortus…

Stop trying to 3 cap = thief can’t backcap and goes down in a hail of Aoe in the teamfight. It really is that simple.

Highlie.7641:

are you Still anti thief fortus…

Stop trying to 3 cap = thief can’t backcap and goes down in a hail of Aoe in the teamfight. It really is that simple.

Shhh

Hmmm on this note, what do you guys think of thief viability in stronghold?

Thieves are way too soft to be effective in conquest atm. You can only effectively decap if you can win most 1 v 1 and win them fast. In this meta thieves will lose most 1 v 1 .

Highlie.7641:

are you Still anti thief fortus…

Stop trying to 3 cap = thief can’t backcap and goes down in a hail of Aoe in the teamfight. It really is that simple.

Lets not devolve into personal attacks. Nobody has any hate for a class or anything, in fact I do play thief quite a bit now a days once I finally gave up on trying to fight them (if you cant beat them, join them).

Just yesterday I had 2 matches in which multiple people (1 per game) complaining about my decapping (one of them whispered me to the point I had to mute them).

I wasn’t fun for me, it wasn’t fun for them, I still won both games, one of them really close (17 points apart) from a deficit of nearly 100 points, all thanks to me keeping their engi and ranger between points in Battle of Kyhlo, where I could use Sb5 to get to the ledges and they couldn’t.

All I’m saying is that if you care more about winning rather than what is fun to deal with and to use, then you should leave things are they are, however, if you want the class to be more engaging for both the opponent and the thief himself, then some changes need to be done, specifically the fact that thieves have been reduced to decapping/+1 bots.

Its been very frustrating playing a thief main in PvP after the June traits patch. Thieves used to be able to solo join ranked and stand a reasonable chance of carrying a poor team.

Playing S/D meant you could decap and contest points. The burst wasn’t all that high, nor could it bunker – but it could 1v1 most meta builds and stand a decent chance of winning. This meant you could carry a bad matchup.

Now there is absolutely no chance of carrying a bad matchup. If your team aren’t rotating well enough to create decap / +1 opportunities, having a thief will make zero difference.

It has gotten to the point where people are asking for a matchmaking mechanism to prevent 2 thieves in a team. If decap / +1 is so strong, why does 2 thieves equal an automatic loss? And once again, I would like to point out decap is basically short bow. One weaponset should not define an entire class.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

Its been very frustrating playing a thief main in PvP after the June traits patch. Thieves used to be able to solo join ranked and stand a reasonable chance of carrying a poor team.

Playing S/D meant you could decap and contest points. The burst wasn’t all that high, nor could it bunker – but it could 1v1 most meta builds and stand a decent chance of winning. This meant you could carry a bad matchup.

Now there is absolutely no chance of carrying a bad matchup. If your team aren’t rotating well enough to create decap / +1 opportunities, having a thief will make zero difference.

It has gotten to the point where people are asking for a matchmaking mechanism to prevent 2 thieves in a team. If decap / +1 is so strong, why does 2 thieves equal an automatic loss? And once again, I would like to point out decap is basically short bow. One weaponset should not define an entire class.

Why do all X classes arguments devolve into “why isnt stacking X class meta?”? The answer is simple, thats not how balance works, except for maybe D/D ele, any other team that stacks a class tends to perform poorly, funy note; the team with 4 D/D eles had a thief in their composition!. Besides, where is it written in stone that having 2 thieves is an automatic loss? I have had plenty of games with 2 thieves or the enemy had them and still didnt feel much different from any other 2 classes stacked.

I think we can all agree that he old S/D thief was beyond OP strong, driving mesmers and eles away from the meta and pretty much erasing all non-bunky builds from conquest.

As it stands right now, thieves are not as bad in 1v1 as some people make them out to be. Are they supposed to win all 1v1s? Of course not, that wouldn’t be fair, would it; a class that can force 1v1 by threat of decapping and the ability to win all those fights is beyond the scope of reasonable.

Every class can decap though. Thief is better than other classes if and only if they take shortbow. At the moment thieves have one build that is okish for 1v1, AKA the d/p Sa/Tr/Da build. Chuck HoT reveal and power creep into the mix and it is likely that this will drop out of the meta too.

S/D was strong, yes. It is likely even to come back with daredevil (or replaced with staff). But equally it needn’t have been nerfed into the ground in the first place. What would have been wrong with a minor nerf?

Thief is a class with a low health pool, little boon access and poor condi cleanse, in return we currently have mobility and mobility alone. Would it really be so much to ask for an ability to win a 1v1? Is it fair to say that a thief is just as likely to lose a 1v1 if their opponent makes x5 as many mistakes?

I would be willing to have SB5 nerfed if only because it would result in the Thief being so bloody undertuned and unwanted that everything else would get buffed and maybe the class would get some diversity and be more useful overall.

Impressive… people still find something to complain about thieves…

Anet nerfed literary everything on thief to the ground for the sake of mobility and now you ask to nerf moblity as well? Why not just ask to delete the class?

Btw eles, ranger and mes can +1 and decap just at about same speed really. The only difference is that you can see where ele/ranger is going and mes doesn’t have as much on land moblity(arguable due to portal).

nearlight.3064:

Hmmm on this note, what do you guys think of thief viability in stronghold?

I think with the addition of trapper runes thieves will be pretty strong on defense.

If they don’t add some direct damage to a couple of the traps they will be completely broken on offence since they can run that bullkitten ghost thief build and kill the lord without ever revealing themselves.

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

I’ll hedge my bet of “this is a disgusting viewpoint” and ask you what you propose be done to fix the situation instead.

What you are complaining about is the only thing keeping thief meta. And most bad thieves don’t even understand that’s what there here for. Unless they get some kind of compensation I think its fine for now.

Ini cost is CD. Global at it too. Unlike other classes i can’t just press 12345, switch weapon and spam away again on thief. By using sb5 you actually give up cc/dmg/survivability at the same time. But people that don’t play thief don’t understand it for some reason.

Oh, and you can’t compare thief to revenants because revs can switch legends. Thieves on other hand are stuck with 1 resource.

Reduce acess to stealth? Really? Do you even know thieves have no acess to protection and invuls? Very limited acess to heals and condi removal. Lowest HP in game as well. Lowest amount of defensive passives. And you ask to reduce their acess to stealth given how much revealed there will be in HoT? Really?

You know what is toxic? Players that never touched class and QQ non-stop on forums how “broken” the class is w/o having any idea how it even works. They are main reason why the class is in such pathetic state (hi, i am ranger pet).

I play all 8 and feel that thieves are half the class they used to be. The thief decapping, theyre so powerful coz of it, can easily be countered by having a bunker or an extra ele in the team.

When I do run in a full premade group, they’d usually ask me to swap out of my thief and play ele or AH guard instead

A buff to sustain would be really handy to thieves.

I play S/D and find thief to be a little odd. I can kill most classes 1v1, but I find that if my team can’t hold off the enemy for a moment or two in an outnumbered situation, all is lost. Thief was meant to be centered around high mobility, tons of evasion, and great burst. I believe DD will come around and alleviate some (a lot) of the pain, but people need to realize that stealth shouldn’t be the only form of sustain they stat for. For instance, with acro, DD and crit strikes, you gain a ton of rewards for proper dodging, a ton of dodges to dodge with, and great damage to boot. We can now count on reaper to take care of boon manipulation since necros can actually handle a bit of focus fire now and people won’t find it to be an exercise of masochism, so thieves can focus on being super mobile and loaded with a ton of damage. Some people might not be able to let go of trickery and that’s fine, but the landscape is changing entirely and people need to accept that.

About 2 years ago developers were asked what role each profession plays. In regards to thief they said, “..their main strength is being to dictate the speed of an encounter.”

Earlier in your piece you have mentioned, “Is it ok for a class to dictate the speed of a match…(with only 2 abilities?)” This is, according to anet developers, thieve’s main strength. You have listed 2 abilities, but as earlier mentioned these are more than just abilities, they are game mechanics. Namely being Mobility and Stealth.

So to piece this all together, I can appreciate your frsutration, but thieve’s are exactly in line with what their purity of purpose is. They dictate the speed.

T raw.4658:

snip

Again, stop with the passive-aggressiveness…

1- I do play ele a lot, I have no issues 1v1 a thief with D/D, if anything i like the match up since they pose no threat to my sustain.

Read all my posts before and you will see exactly what im tring to say the problem is, I wont repeat myself.

I think we all can see that if you think the old thief, with all the nerfs it has received and still is strong as heck, wasn’t strong, then you might be delusional.

Fortus.6175:

My suggestion is reducing the access to blinks of SB5, via a static CD like revenant where energy isnt the only thing deciding CD, something along the lines of 15 seconds or 20, like RtL for eles, but without the double CD penalty since this skill isnt about damage.

As a whole for the class, reduce access to stealth without penalty, and make stealth condi and heal over time stronger. Stealth is intrinsically strong, you honestly cant predict a player in it, other than the occasional lucky strike, and each person will act differently.

Until those 2 things aren’t tweaked in order to allow a window of retaliation agaisnt thieves, they will not gain any significant damage buffs.

At what point did “thieves need damage buffs” become a topic of discussion?
Thief damage is fine as is. The problem is right now we cannot survive 1v1 against most classes and are delegated to decapping and +1s.

There is plenty of retaliation against thieves, like casting AOE on yourself, standing in their black powder circles, actual retaliation, burning and the like. A thief cannot restealth for 3-4 seconds after attacking you, which is plenty of time to down them if you are keeping a watchful eye out for the initial stun basi-venom locks you down in.

You’re asking to both gut our only reliable mobility (that requires us to sacrifice half of our Attack pool per shot if traited, more if not) and our healing, condi purging, defense, and burst setup (all of those are tied to stealth) because of not having enough time to retaliate against thieves.

Instead of asking reveal be bumped up, mind you.

Are you joking? I have to ask you this. because even when a thief is in stealth, you can predict them. for example, generally:

*If they drop a black powder, you stand in it, and they dont reveal, they have three seconds to attack you.
*If you cannot stand in it, they have 6-7 seconds to attack you, which can be covered with block, immune, evade, or stunbreak given they have basi slotted.

Stealth if anything makes thieves more predictable. That is, if you don’t flail about like a panicked turkey; you know they’re either going to attack you or run, and if they do the former you can prepare stun chains while they’re setting up.

Thief is in a bad spot right now because we can’t fight back against most meta builds that understand how stealth works and what thieves have in terms of options while in it for each weapon set. If not understanding those options is causing losses, that isn’t a problem with the thief being too strong.

If anything, the thief needs defensive buffs to be able to skirmish with the other classes.

Fortus.6175:

Thieves mechanics are borderline toxic for games-

Actually, dont think I have anything to say to you, now that I think about it.

Nothing personal, I just came to the realization that other people might think like you and that outcry may be where all the nerfs are getting fed from.

Fortus.6175:

T raw.4658:

snip

I have no issues 1v1 a thief
since they pose no threat

Sums up everything we need to know from you regarding thieves. Using those two statements we can disregard your posts completely.

Thanks

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

T raw.4658:

snip

I have no issues 1v1 a thief
since they pose no threat

Sums up everything we need to know from you regarding thieves. Using those two statements we can disregard your posts completely.

Thanks

I think it’s disappointing that someone can play an ele, see how easily they can outsustain a thief, and then still have the audacity to come to the forums and complain that thief is too strong, knowing that thief has an armor class higher than the elementalist.

And then have further audacity to say they like the matchup for the sole fact its onesided.

Fortus.6175:

Again, stop with the passive-aggressiveness…

1- I do play ele a lot, I have no issues 1v1 a thief with D/D, if anything i like the match up since they pose no threat to my sustain.

Read all my posts before and you will see exactly what im tring to say the problem is, I wont repeat myself.

I think we all can see that if you think the old thief, with all the nerfs it has received and still is strong as heck, wasn’t strong, then you might be delusional.

Who’s delusional?

Do you guys think D/D ele is balanced then? Ok then……

Rising Dusk.2408:

I would be willing to have SB5 nerfed if only because it would result in the Thief being so bloody undertuned and unwanted that everything else would get buffed and maybe the class would get some diversity and be more useful overall.

Yep, if thieves want to be able to fairly 1v1 any meta build at the moment they need to give something up. Sadly sense, reason and logic is something I’ve come to never expect from anyone uttering the words main and thief.

The sad thing is most people don’t realise that if you want buffs to your class then generally it has to have fallen out of the meta, something thief hasn’t managed after at least 2 years.

lol

/15chars

apharma.3741:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I would be willing to have SB5 nerfed if only because it would result in the Thief being so bloody undertuned and unwanted that everything else would get buffed and maybe the class would get some diversity and be more useful overall.

Yep, if thieves want to be able to fairly 1v1 any meta build at the moment they need to give something up. Sadly sense, reason and logic is something I’ve come to never expect from anyone uttering the words main and thief.

The sad thing is most people don’t realise that if you want buffs to your class then generally it has to have fallen out of the meta, something thief hasn’t managed after at least 2 years.

YEAH!!! Ignore the fact that we have asked for in combat sustain ranged option to replace SB, there was more to us wanting rifle then a 1200 range weapon instead of another melee weapon they’ve nerfed p/d and refuse to add to add sustain to p/p. Many said they would give up/swap SB mobility for combat efficiency but where is the option huh? You are only seeing what you want to see.

thief is dead post HoT reroll to reventant cause even if you run away as a thief a revenant cant catch up to you no problem by spamming phase transversal

I am surprised at everyone’s reactions to this post. Right now thief has a niche which keeps it very much alive in the meta. Most thieves though seem to hate only having this niche, and would rather have a different use for their team. The only way they can keep thief balanced overall while being decent in actual combat, is if they can tone down its mobility and disengage while buffing its actual combat abilities.

ArthurDent.9538:

I am surprised at everyone’s reactions to this post. Right now thief has a niche which keeps it very much alive in the meta. Most thieves though seem to hate only having this niche, and would rather have a different use for their team. The only way they can keep thief balanced overall while being decent in actual combat, is if they can tone down its mobility and disengage while buffing its actual combat abilities.

Ever heard of options? Why must we rely on nerfs?

Sagat.3285:

ArthurDent.9538:

I am surprised at everyone’s reactions to this post. Right now thief has a niche which keeps it very much alive in the meta. Most thieves though seem to hate only having this niche, and would rather have a different use for their team. The only way they can keep thief balanced overall while being decent in actual combat, is if they can tone down its mobility and disengage while buffing its actual combat abilities.

Ever heard of options? Why must we rely on nerfs?

That is true, I would like to see the acro line restored to usefulness, and pistol main hand could definitely see some love. But they need to be targeted buffs, that don’t make a monster of a spec that kills most specs 1v1 efficiently, is impossible to escape from due to its insane mobility, and still able disengage and reset losing fights on demand.

T raw.4658:

Fortus.6175:

Throughout all of gw2’s history, thieves have been a very integral [mandatory] element due to their mobility, however , I think it is time to address some aspects of the class, namely the way their mobility and stealth come into play in Conquest.

I keep hearing that thieves are in a bad spot (mostly by thieves players) but they dont seem to realize the strength of basically forcing a 4v5 everywhere by constant decapping threat, or their ability to get out of vitually anything and anyone if so they wish with Sb 5 and stealth.

Are we honestly ok with this? Is it ok for a class to single handily dictate the pace of a match with only 2 abilities? I honestly dont think this translate to much fun to both the opponent or the thief himself, since there is no fighting involved at all, jsut running around all the match, “chasing” after the incapturable ….

If you leave a point unguarded for a thief to decap you that’s on you.

The simple fact that a theif can’t 1v1 any other meta class in this game means all you have to do is get to the point before its decapped.

Hell even some of the worst players in the game can hold a thief off long enough until help arrives.

Complaining about thieves at this point in time is just a sign of a player who needs to improve his game.

You know, some people can actually play thief and kill people while being outnumbered on point yer? Do those people need to learn how to play or was it just unfortunate that they went against someone who played thief for 3 years?