Guild Wars 2

This is not QQ thread, lol.

Considering all the changes (including changes to other classes) next patch, what do you think will be good (maybe new?) builds for thieves and their role in pvp ?

What build do you think would work well in which situation and vs which classes?

Duscuss.

P.S. posts from players that play other classes are appreciated, it would be very interesting for me to hear what is it about thieves that makes it hard for your class to deal with and what is easy?

They will be good at laying on the ground .

D/P sleight of hand will be pretty good, which is a good thing since all other thief specs are “smash your head of the keyboard easy mode”, so I’m glad they’re all on the receiving hand of the nerf hammer.
All these perma stealth and S/D thief tears are so tasty.

ahuba.6430:

D/P sleight of hand will be pretty good, which is a good thing since all other thief specs are “smash your head of the keyboard easy mode”, so I’m glad they’re all on the receiving hand of the nerf hammer.
All these perma stealth and S/D thief tears are so tasty.

snore

3111 3111 3111 3111 3111 and so on

They will make good spectators

Venom share.

Nothing more.

D/P burst will be effectively buffed, the point is that with so many stuns-condies running around, staying out of the fight spamming with a nerfed shortbow won’t be good enough, since GS mesmers can do pretty much the same sustained damage from MORE range while also giving strong support via CCs ( diversion), portal and null field, while ALSO being able to burst effectively from 200 range ( while also being one of the most effective counters to wars, and even more after the damage nerf).

Shadow refuge is still an ability able by itself to guarantee a place for the thief, but sincerely going DPS is futile since your DPS is subpar when compared to other dps classes ( mesmer above all), same for your utility.

Venom share will be worth tough, at least till they nerf immo stacking.

Source: main thief, alt mesmer-necro, believing to play them very well.

Stomper x/p

Standart d/p.
And mb new pw. Like http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYmiOncy9E/5EyWhK07BZVWhl2DaCngJA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYZx0CA

wouldn’t be venom share thief better off with condi spec?

I reckon s/d will still be good, cast time on shadow return and a bit less vigor will make it a bit more difficult but I don’t think it’ll make it unviable. The worst part about the nerf for me is that I won’t be able to do wicked stomps on guards without using shadowstep.

Venom share for sure. I already run it as s/d and the initiative boost will benefit venom builds since you don’t have the spread to run crit strikes anyway. I run it as s/d and shortbow, and the extra initiative is going to make this build even more powerful until immob stacking is inevitably changed.

The new s/p pistol whip may be interesting depending on how it is changed.

d/p trickery will still be strong but until things shift away from super stun super condi it’s a bit vulnerable.

Cynz.9437:

wouldn’t be venom share thief better off with condi spec?

I run venom share with Barbarian amulet/jewel and as s/d shortbow. This is just my personal preference, but I think the vit from Barb helps with the sustain. Since a decent amount of utilities need to be devoted to venoms, I think s/d and high vitality rounds out the build a bit and keeps it safe while still outputting decent damage. The vitality boost makes up for the lack of acro spec.

AshinDreidon.3861:

Cynz.9437:

wouldn’t be venom share thief better off with condi spec?

I run venom share with Barbarian amulet/jewel and as s/d shortbow. This is just my personal preference, but I think the vit from Barb helps with the sustain. Since a decent amount of utilities need to be devoted to venoms, I think s/d and high vitality rounds out the build a bit and keeps it safe while still outputting decent damage. The vitality boost makes up for the lack of acro spec.

After patch S/D won’t be viable, especially on a venom share build.

Just go P/D ( or even P/P) with carrion/rampager ( with the new buff to sundering strikes it may be quite good) and just spam body shot with your venoms while your teammates annhilate your opponent ( as long as you cycle your attacks, simply to avoid cleansing the whole immo stack).

New thief meta, probably the only possible one after 10th december.

I’ll have to give that a shot to get used to it. I really enjoy venom share and I guess I’m trying to just enjoy the last days of s/x.
That’s not a bad idea, I already get absolutely insane immob stacks. It’s a shame since I think s/d pairs extremely well with venom share.

AshinDreidon.3861:

I’ll have to give that a shot to get used to it. I really enjoy venom share and I guess I’m trying to just enjoy the last days of s/x.
That’s not a bad idea, I already get absolutely insane immob stacks. It’s a shame since I think s/d pairs extremely well with venom share.

I was using the exact same set up of yours ( S/D shortbow with barbarian+zerk jewel) and i was also able to dish out good damage, without the need of a stunbreak thanks to S/D.

S/D will be killed, so if we’re going for venom share, than let’s just go full condi, there’s no other real way to play the build otherwise.

Body shot is everything a thief should do anyway.

Well played aNet.

Those nerfs to evades actually hit twice as hard, since less evades=less energy restored from 15 acrobatics. So the nerf to vigor = double nerf and the nerf to shadow return forces thieves to run shadowstep instead of the signet of agility , since they can´t tank damage at all with 916 toughnes, which also equals less evades = less energy restored.

At the moment I don´t see any other thieves on competitive teams than us, so they will become a ceased species.

Blackjack.5621:

Those nerfs to evades actually hit twice as hard, since less evades=less energy restored from 15 acrobatics. So the nerf to vigor = double nerf and the nerf to shadow return forces thieves to run shadowstep instead of the signet of agility which also equals less evades = less energy restored.

At the moment I don´t see any other thieves on competitive teams than us, so they will become a ceased species.

Venom share has some potential, as long as teams try to run with it ( sad part is that there are very few teams even in EU).

Other than that, thieves will cease to exist, as you said.

Sad part is that aNet won’t understand it.

Mrbig.8019:

Blackjack.5621:

Those nerfs to evades actually hit twice as hard, since less evades=less energy restored from 15 acrobatics. So the nerf to vigor = double nerf and the nerf to shadow return forces thieves to run shadowstep instead of the signet of agility which also equals less evades = less energy restored.

At the moment I don´t see any other thieves on competitive teams than us, so they will become a ceased species.

Venom share has some potential, as long as teams try to run with it ( sad part is that there are very few teams even in EU).

Other than that, thieves will cease to exist, as you said.

Sad part is that aNet won’t understand it.

Venom share is only good for trolling, a class that is useful for 5 seconds in a 40sec timewindow is not worth taking on a competitive level.

as a spirit ranger, thieves are kind of an easy kill most of the times. but they tend to make me nervous whenever i’m forced to 1v1 them. you’ll never know when and how they will attack you from their stealth. lol

I’m going to say Venom Share as well. Venoms in general have never been as bad people as people make them out to be but not on par with other FotM builds. Though I hated them ever since ANet made them fail proof, aka so easy a brain dead monkey could use them. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, Venoms used to disappear from use after missing a shot by being out of range, which punished unintelligent spammers. Now they only miss if they are evaded or blocked. Under the circumstances of a venom sharing Thief and his allies, you simply cannot evade or block enough to survive even if they are being stupid and just spamming out of range and such. Also, on top of that, if you reflect the shots back at them, they aren’t even used on them, or on anything. It doesn’t use the Venom charges even though it really, really should.

So basically Venoms are brain dead easy to use and are used as pure cheese at this point. If you don’t have really strong condition removal you’re going to die very fast. Especially since immobilization stacks now (10-15 seconds of immobilization if shared).
If you play Hotjoin, you’re probably going to see a lot more of it, and it’s going to suck. Maybe also in Solo and Team play but I think it’s generally shunned right now by those players. It’s hard to say as Hotjoin is influenced by what is popular in Solo or Team, aka becoming FotM.

Venomshare builds are bad as they require the thief to stick with the main group. They will not crop up to any significant margin. D/P trickery will get a buff, which might be good or bad. It might make it stupid easy to play, which would be a bad thing. D/P is probably the most balanced spec in the game right now and all builds should be as balanced as D/P trickery, but with their own different play-styles. S/D will probably still exist, but would require a bit more skill to pull off, which is a good thing.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Venomshare builds are bad as they require the thief to stick with the main group. They will not crop up to any significant margin. D/P trickery will get a buff, which might be good or bad. It might make it stupid easy to play, which would be a bad thing. D/P is probably the most balanced spec in the game right now and all builds should be as balanced as D/P trickery, but with their own different play-styles. S/D will probably still exist, but would require a bit more skill to pull off, which is a good thing.

S/D won’t exist anymore. It was already sub-par regarding other meta builds and aNet gutted everything that build was capable of ( doding and teleporting away from CCs).

D/P is not on par not due to ini regen but due to limited utility.

Venom share is our only hope, but even with it i seriously doubt it would be useful aside a heavy power spike comp ( and even in that case, why don’t you run another spike build instead of a venom share thief).

Thief will be dead

any build will be viable: just go 30 in acrobatics and double sd (with energy sigills as the vigor will get nerfed) or double dp and unless u are out of combat, you’ll have 3ini/10secs – the 2 ini on stealth really just impacts perma-stealth-thieves in wvw, dd are probably more viable than before and the vigor nerf can easily be avoided with energy-sigills
so no problem for thieves in sPvP, I’m really looking forward to that patch because then I’ll try dd in sPvP again

Tarkan.5609:

any build will be viable: just go 30 in acrobatics and double sd (with energy sigills as the vigor will get nerfed) or double dp and unless u are out of combat, you’ll have 3ini/10secs – the 2 ini on stealth really just impacts perma-stealth-thieves in wvw, dd are probably more viable than before and the vigor nerf can easily be avoided with energy-sigills
so no problem for thieves in sPvP, I’m really looking forward to that patch because then I’ll try dd in sPvP again

Its not like D/D’s problems will have gone away. Dancing Dagger will still miss stone-still targets 300 range away, CnD will still do awful damage for a 6 init commitment, and you’ll still have a condition based attack with a kittenty, ineffective evade smack dab in the middle of your direct damage weaponset.

Tarkan.5609:

any build will be viable: just go 30 in acrobatics and double sd (with energy sigills as the vigor will get nerfed) or double dp and unless u are out of combat, you’ll have 3ini/10secs – the 2 ini on stealth really just impacts perma-stealth-thieves in wvw, dd are probably more viable than before and the vigor nerf can easily be avoided with energy-sigills
so no problem for thieves in sPvP, I’m really looking forward to that patch because then I’ll try dd in sPvP again

Double S/D lol.

When did we go 4 months behind with the meta ? No shortbow, no thief.

Thief will probably be in a rough patch for December. No idea for how long though. I thought it would take them 3 months to remember PE but it’s taken them half of that. So Anet can be full of surprises.

ensoriki.5789:

Thief will probably be in a rough patch for December. No idea for how long though. I thought it would take them 3 months to remember PE but it’s taken them half of that. So Anet can be full of surprises.

After 4 months still no trick shot pathing/speed fix. Still no after cast fix, still no Pistol whip fix.

4 months of strafing

What did you expect ?

I actually expect thief will be just fine. I guess I’m in the minority. With the increase in base initiative regen but a nerf to the traits that made initiative inconsequential I think you will actually be able to do some out of the box thinking and be effective.

I kind of expect a D/P, S/D or D/D, S/P to work pretty well. The loss of SB5 can be played around, but one (perhaps unintended) consequence of higher base initiative regen is that SB thieves are even more mobile. This will make pushing to mid from close even more risky, because you will get decapped every time if an opposing thief is paying any attention.

How can you say what thieves will be like after the patch until the patch actually happens and people play quite a bit. This is, in fact, a qq thread.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

I actually expect thief will be just fine. I guess I’m in the minority. With the increase in base initiative regen but a nerf to the traits that made initiative inconsequential I think you will actually be able to do some out of the box thinking and be effective.

I kind of expect a D/P, S/D or D/D, S/P to work pretty well. The loss of SB5 can be played around, but one (perhaps unintended) consequence of higher base initiative regen is that SB thieves are even more mobile. This will make pushing to mid from close even more risky, because you will get decapped every time if an opposing thief is paying any attention.

No problem since no serious team will play thief after 10th december.

You can rest assured and have good dreams.

brannigan.9831:

How can you say what thieves will be like after the patch until the patch actually happens and people play quite a bit. This is, in fact, a qq thread.

this is not a qq thread, i am just looking for new ideas and wanna try out new stuff that might be working after new patch or should i just throw a tantrum and make 100th thread about how thief gonna die etc? i know for fact i will play my thief regardless what changes they will do to class; what is wrong with trying to “adapt” ?

why i posted it here? because i am interested in pvp and because i want to build my thief around fighting other classes and not thieves only hence why i asked what do ppl playing other classes find hard to deal with

if people chose to QQ here, i can’t stop them but i am thankfull for ideas some ppl posted here

don’t like this thread, don’t read it, jeez

Mrbig.8019:

AshinDreidon.3861:

Cynz.9437:

wouldn’t be venom share thief better off with condi spec?

I run venom share with Barbarian amulet/jewel and as s/d shortbow. This is just my personal preference, but I think the vit from Barb helps with the sustain. Since a decent amount of utilities need to be devoted to venoms, I think s/d and high vitality rounds out the build a bit and keeps it safe while still outputting decent damage. The vitality boost makes up for the lack of acro spec.

After patch S/D won’t be viable, especially on a venom share build.

Just go P/D ( or even P/P) with carrion/rampager ( with the new buff to sundering strikes it may be quite good) and just spam body shot with your venoms while your teammates annhilate your opponent ( as long as you cycle your attacks, simply to avoid cleansing the whole immo stack).

New thief meta, probably the only possible one after 10th december.

you are the very same person that after the big s/d thief patch said they were still complete garbage, and how wrong were you? and now here you are saying s/d thief will be complete garbage again and that venomshare will be the next op thing?

If you think a spec that is like super slippery and that can stunbreak away at any given time it is eventually caught in a cc is working as intended, i don’t know what to say to you. S/D is a prime example of how broken and uninteresting this game has become when it comes to meta builds.

ahuba.6430:

Mrbig.8019:

AshinDreidon.3861:

Cynz.9437:

wouldn’t be venom share thief better off with condi spec?

I run venom share with Barbarian amulet/jewel and as s/d shortbow. This is just my personal preference, but I think the vit from Barb helps with the sustain. Since a decent amount of utilities need to be devoted to venoms, I think s/d and high vitality rounds out the build a bit and keeps it safe while still outputting decent damage. The vitality boost makes up for the lack of acro spec.

After patch S/D won’t be viable, especially on a venom share build.

Just go P/D ( or even P/P) with carrion/rampager ( with the new buff to sundering strikes it may be quite good) and just spam body shot with your venoms while your teammates annhilate your opponent ( as long as you cycle your attacks, simply to avoid cleansing the whole immo stack).

New thief meta, probably the only possible one after 10th december.

you are the very same person that after the big s/d thief patch said they were still complete garbage, and how wrong were you? and now here you are saying s/d thief will be complete garbage again and that venomshare will be the next op thing?

If you think a spec that is like super slippery and that can stunbreak away at any given time it is eventually caught in a cc is working as intended, i don’t know what to say to you. S/D is a prime example of how broken and uninteresting this game has become when it comes to meta builds.

You don’t understand.

I’m not complaining about nerfs, i’m actually happy S/D has been nerfed into the ground.

The point is that S/D thief was already not competitive enough when compared to other current meta builds, the same builds that won’t be nerfed enough while the thief takes the nerf hammer.

When i was saying S/D thief wouldn’t be viable i was not considering how many stubborn people still desired to play ele and mesmers and how many refused to accept wars as their new overlords in the condi meta: if there were no more of them, S/D thief would have been dead from war HS buff.

It’s obvious that S/D thief cannot compare with wars, the thief was kept viable by people refusing to play war; now it’s no more the case, and with inf return nerf there will be no reason to play a thief in competitive teams, just like Black said ( which is currently #5 in EU ladder, so at least he knows about current meta).

I don’t even understand why Rom decided to go thief, instead of simply playing with 2 wars, but whatever.

Many thieves have already made the transition to war even before Dec 10 patch. Like Mr.Big says, S/D thief has not really been viable ever since war healing signet buff. Dec10 will take the stubborn few that remains.

Mrbig.8019:

Tarkan.5609:

any build will be viable: just go 30 in acrobatics and double sd (with energy sigills as the vigor will get nerfed) or double dp and unless u are out of combat, you’ll have 3ini/10secs – the 2 ini on stealth really just impacts perma-stealth-thieves in wvw, dd are probably more viable than before and the vigor nerf can easily be avoided with energy-sigills
so no problem for thieves in sPvP, I’m really looking forward to that patch because then I’ll try dd in sPvP again

Double S/D lol.

When did we go 4 months behind with the meta ? No shortbow, no thief.

Didn’t you see? The Devs feels nerfing the ridiculously imbalanced way in which S/D can spend 5 initiative AND A utility/steal to secure a stomp will encourage thieves to bring a secondary weaponset (Like Pistol OH) just for stomping! Obviously, if the developers feel this is viable, you must be mistaken on just how blatantly required it is for a thief to run Sbow.

D/P got overshadowed by S/D, but with that being taken out, I see D/P returning. If anything, a D/P build will be better than ever with the ini buffs.

And to clarify, I’m talking about 25/30/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/0/30 builds, not the SA heavy builds that are, of course, nerfed by the Dec 10th changes.

ahuba.6430:

D/P sleight of hand will be pretty good, which is a good thing since all other thief specs are “smash your head of the keyboard easy mode”, so I’m glad they’re all on the receiving hand of the nerf hammer.
All these perma stealth and S/D thief tears are so tasty.

That’s a joke right d/p taking skill, haha. Unless you run two of the same weapons thief is easy no matter what you use.

Reality is all I see

Mindtrick.5190:

ahuba.6430:

D/P sleight of hand will be pretty good, which is a good thing since all other thief specs are “smash your head of the keyboard easy mode”, so I’m glad they’re all on the receiving hand of the nerf hammer.
All these perma stealth and S/D thief tears are so tasty.

That’s a joke right d/p taking skill, haha. Unless you run two of the same weapons thief is easy no matter what you use.

Reality is all I see

Playing d/p is one of the most balanced, reaction based weapon sets in the game. Doesn’t take any skill?

oh yeah playing d/d thief against wvw scrubs is though. boy that cnd steal bs so hard to do, teach me bro.
d/d is not a hard to play weapon set, it just sucks. It’s a one trick poney, and the reason you feel its hard to play is because if your pony trick misses, you’re a sitting duck waiting to be killed, unless your opponent is a scrub, which is mostly the case in wvw.

Pistol wip for sure will be back… More vulnerability stacks….
Pistol/dagger with vennon share it’s a good option also, but bleeds are quite useless with so much regen….
Dagger/Dagger backstab also, probably my main build, I can see a very good boost for more qq ….

I can say that Anet should have some pvp players to give good ideas because some changes are doing exactly the opposite what they want…
Hard to catch trait shouldn’t even exist…

dagger dagger will still suck, the problems of d/d are in the #3 and 4 skills and not in anything that will be change. the inititative regen change wont do anything for it since you only need inititative for #5, and if you hit 5 youll get 4 seconds you dont use 5, so youll barely notice the change.
P/D is still horse kitten and pistol whip will still be butt kittened by retal.
The only hope is d/p sleight of hand. Also, im pretty sure s/d is still gonna be decent. You’ll just have to learn to use your stunbreaks defensively and actually thinking when using dodges.

looks like generall opinion is that d/p will be decent… with what traits?

Cynz.9437:

looks like generall opinion is that d/p will be decent… with what traits?

10/30/0/0/30 with sleight of hand and bountiful theft and executioner as key traits.

ahuba.6430:

dagger dagger will still suck, the problems of d/d are in the #3 and 4 skills and not in anything that will be change. the inititative regen change wont do anything for it since you only need inititative for #5, and if you hit 5 youll get 4 seconds you dont use 5, so youll barely notice the change.
P/D is still horse kitten and pistol whip will still be butt kittened by retal.
The only hope is d/p sleight of hand. Also, im pretty sure s/d is still gonna be decent. You’ll just have to learn to use your stunbreaks defensively and actually thinking when using dodges.

You don’t seem to understand how hard the nerf to vigor and inf return will be.

Less vigor = less energy = less overall energy recovered with Feline grace.

No instant inf return = you need to bring shadow step at the cost of Signet of agility= even less dodges while ALSO = less overall sustained damage ( 8% less crit chance).

Those nerfs are basically a 50% nerf to S/D thief sustainability in fights.

There was already no need to bring a thief, now if you bring a war you’re 100% sure you won’t go wrong.

Mesmers will effectively replace thieves if teams really want to bring a ranged DPS with strong sustain and good burst ( in mesmer case is a very good burst).

With war meta i was already playing mesmer more than thief in solo q. In team queue i don’t really think there will be any reason to bring a thief.

Mrbig.8019:

ahuba.6430:

dagger dagger will still suck, the problems of d/d are in the #3 and 4 skills and not in anything that will be change. the inititative regen change wont do anything for it since you only need inititative for #5, and if you hit 5 youll get 4 seconds you dont use 5, so youll barely notice the change.
P/D is still horse kitten and pistol whip will still be butt kittened by retal.
The only hope is d/p sleight of hand. Also, im pretty sure s/d is still gonna be decent. You’ll just have to learn to use your stunbreaks defensively and actually thinking when using dodges.

You don’t seem to understand how hard the nerf to vigor and inf return will be.

Less vigor = less energy = less overall energy recovered with Feline grace.

No instant inf return = you need to bring shadow step at the cost of Signet of agility= even less dodges while ALSO = less overall sustained damage ( 8% less crit chance).

Those nerfs are basically a 50% nerf to S/D thief sustainability in fights.

There was already no need to bring a thief, now if you bring a war you’re 100% sure you won’t go wrong.

Mesmers will effectively replace thieves if teams really want to bring a ranged DPS with strong sustain and good burst ( in mesmer case is a very good burst).

With war meta i was already playing mesmer more than thief in solo q. In team queue i don’t really think there will be any reason to bring a thief.

j sharp said the vigor nerfs are not gonna be as hard as they are on the preview notes.
“I’ve seen a lot of talk about this as well, and discussing this already this morning the current vigor is a bit too high, but we may have overdone the reduction. I was thinking about going back to 5s or 6s on Vigorous Recovery, and going back to 10s or 12s on Bountiful Theft.”

The S/D weapon set is broken, and I don’t mean broken as in op. It’s broken because you’re only using skills 1 2 and 3, You’ll never use 4 and 5, which makes for a dull faceroling play style. S/D’s defense should be on the #4 and #5 into #1 skills so they don’t have to rely on spamming dodges to stay alive. Dodging should be a strategic decision not your bread and butter to survive.

Dagger offhand needs a rework. If anet reworks dagger off hand into something that thieves can rely on for surviving/avoiding damage/control, S/D will become an actual skillful set and D/D wouldn’t be complete trash like it is now.

Bottom line is, less dodging is good, s/d thieves need a lot of dodging because offhand dagger sucks. Fix offhand dagger and thieves wont need to abuse dodge anymore and they won’t be as frustrating to play against as they are now.

i actually would love to do back to d/d… dagger offhand indeed needs to be more reliable

ahuba.6430:

Mrbig.8019:

ahuba.6430:

dagger dagger will still suck, the problems of d/d are in the #3 and 4 skills and not in anything that will be change. the inititative regen change wont do anything for it since you only need inititative for #5, and if you hit 5 youll get 4 seconds you dont use 5, so youll barely notice the change.
P/D is still horse kitten and pistol whip will still be butt kittened by retal.
The only hope is d/p sleight of hand. Also, im pretty sure s/d is still gonna be decent. You’ll just have to learn to use your stunbreaks defensively and actually thinking when using dodges.

You don’t seem to understand how hard the nerf to vigor and inf return will be.

Less vigor = less energy = less overall energy recovered with Feline grace.

No instant inf return = you need to bring shadow step at the cost of Signet of agility= even less dodges while ALSO = less overall sustained damage ( 8% less crit chance).

Those nerfs are basically a 50% nerf to S/D thief sustainability in fights.

There was already no need to bring a thief, now if you bring a war you’re 100% sure you won’t go wrong.

Mesmers will effectively replace thieves if teams really want to bring a ranged DPS with strong sustain and good burst ( in mesmer case is a very good burst).

With war meta i was already playing mesmer more than thief in solo q. In team queue i don’t really think there will be any reason to bring a thief.

j sharp said the vigor nerfs are not gonna be as hard as they are on the preview notes.
“I’ve seen a lot of talk about this as well, and discussing this already this morning the current vigor is a bit too high, but we may have overdone the reduction. I was thinking about going back to 5s or 6s on Vigorous Recovery, and going back to 10s or 12s on Bountiful Theft.”

The S/D weapon set is broken, and I don’t mean broken as in op. It’s broken because you’re only using skills 1 2 and 3, You’ll never use 4 and 5, which makes for a dull faceroling play style. S/D’s defense should be on the #4 and #5 into #1 skills so they don’t have to rely on spamming dodges to stay alive. Dodging should be a strategic decision not your bread and butter to survive.

Dagger offhand needs a rework. If anet reworks dagger off hand into something that thieves can rely on for surviving/avoiding damage/control, S/D will become an actual skillful set and D/D wouldn’t be complete trash like it is now.

Bottom line is, less dodging is good, s/d thieves need a lot of dodging because offhand dagger sucks. Fix offhand dagger and thieves wont need to abuse dodge anymore and they won’t be as frustrating to play against as they are now.

we’re saying from OH dagger nerf that OH dagger sucks, but removing the thief from the meta is surely not the best way to get empirical data on how to fix it.

Again, it’s not that S/D thief didn’t need fixing, but with other classes in their state we will have no place.

Now that conditions are not flying ( and there’s an effective mesmer build capable to handle them and deal massive damage) mesmers are already way better.

key thing that keeps mesmer viable is phase retreat, which is basically shadow return. if that ever gets nerfed (.25s cast time added), i fear mesmer will be in the same state as S/D thief – completely not viable.

Excalibur.9748:

key thing that keeps mesmer viable is phase retreat, which is basically shadow return. if that ever gets nerfed (.25s cast time added), i fear mesmer will be in the same state as S/D thief – completely not viable.

I don’t want staff nerfed anymore than IR but I think it’s worth noting that mesmers can be very effective while slotting 3 stunbreaks. Thieves kitten themselves quite a bit not taking shadow refuge…. so mesmers can handle stuns better and their skill remains safe from THA NERF HAMMMAAAHHH.

Hype.8032:

Excalibur.9748:

key thing that keeps mesmer viable is phase retreat, which is basically shadow return. if that ever gets nerfed (.25s cast time added), i fear mesmer will be in the same state as S/D thief – completely not viable.

I don’t want staff nerfed anymore than IR but I think it’s worth noting that mesmers can be very effective while slotting 3 stunbreaks. Thieves kitten themselves quite a bit not taking shadow refuge…. so mesmers can handle stuns better and their skill remains safe from THA NERF HAMMMAAAHHH.

Shadow refuge should be nerfed too. Then we’ll see how much value the thief has in GW2

Mrbig.8019:

Hype.8032:

Excalibur.9748:

key thing that keeps mesmer viable is phase retreat, which is basically shadow return. if that ever gets nerfed (.25s cast time added), i fear mesmer will be in the same state as S/D thief – completely not viable.

I don’t want staff nerfed anymore than IR but I think it’s worth noting that mesmers can be very effective while slotting 3 stunbreaks. Thieves kitten themselves quite a bit not taking shadow refuge…. so mesmers can handle stuns better and their skill remains safe from THA NERF HAMMMAAAHHH.

Shadow refuge should be nerfed too. Then we’ll see how much value the thief has in GW2

lol it would have no value whatsoever then.