Guild Wars 2

They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility.

This kind of feedback can only mean one thing. You’re one of those Thief players in hotjoin that are always on the tunnel vision target’s heels spamming 1111111111 in the air, and get flanked by everyone.

It’s a playstyle issue. Once you discover the magic of Shortbows, you’ll never have a complaint about sustained damage, staying power, or mobility again, I promise.

Sustaining pressure on people:

• Between Trick Shot, Choking Gas, and an occasional Cluster Bomb, your sustained pressure on a point is really high, and extremely easy to do. Auto-attack is easily 50% of your pressure, depending on how much initiative you want to put into cluster bombs. Shortbow is still effective in 1v1’s to dish fair damage while not risking yourself, until the opportunity for a dagger combo arises. Thief Shortbow is one of the best weapons, period. Maximize it!

• Problems with staying power is all in the positioning, & disabiling shot & Shadowstep usage. Convert initiative into evades & cripples when the situation demands, while you lay low for a second or reposition.

• Bad mobility. You can slot signet of shadows, which I personally don’t recommend, or you can press Shortbow 5 more often. I’ll remind you that when you’re escaping, a vertical teleport can put you 5-15 seconds ahead of your pursuers, depending on terrain. You can’t even put a price on this in Temple of the Silent Storm or Khylo maps.

Hope this helps you overcome your problems with sustained pressure, staying power, & mobility.

Chaith.8256:

They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility.

This kind of feedback can only mean one thing. You’re one of those Thief players in hotjoin that are always on the tunnel vision target’s heels spamming 1111111111 in the air, and get flanked by everyone.

It’s a playstyle issue. Once you discover the magic of Shortbows, you’ll never have a complaint about sustained damage, staying power, or mobility again, I promise.

Sustaining pressure on people:

• Between Trick Shot, Choking Gas, and an occasional Cluster Bomb, your sustained pressure on a point is really high, and extremely easy to do. Auto-attack is easily 50% of your pressure, depending on how much initiative you want to put into cluster bombs. Shortbow is still effective in 1v1’s to dish fair damage while not risking yourself, until the opportunity for a dagger combo arises. Thief Shortbow is one of the best weapons, period. Maximize it!

• Problems with staying power is all in the positioning, & disabiling shot & Shadowstep usage. Convert initiative into evades & cripples when the situation demands, while you lay low for a second or reposition.

• Bad mobility. You can slot signet of shadows, which I personally don’t recommend, or you can press Shortbow 5 more often. I’ll remind you that when you’re escaping, a vertical teleport can put you 5-15 seconds ahead of your pursuers, depending on terrain. You can’t even put a price on this in Temple of the Silent Storm or Khylo maps.

Hope this helps you overcome your problems with sustained pressure, staying power, & mobility.

it’s really not the point.

Altough i agree with you regarding all you said, the thief sacrifices too much while having too little.

The thief has really no acces to swiftness unless you play an acro thief ( not a good choice, since you would sacrifice a good portion of damage) and has less mobility than an ele.

Moreover thief sustain is based on shortbow ( range) since you’re too squishy to stay on a point.
You can’t go 1vs1 alone otherwise you’re going to lose against any capable opponent unless you totally outplay him.

A valk ele built for dps ( double arcane), no matters if is D/D or S/D ( D/D is more AoE, S/D is better for 1vs1 and for bunkering) has currently the same burst of a thief ( especially D/D) while being AoE, while having more mobility, while giving more support via boons, heals and condi removals, while having more sustained power ON a point ( being able to contest it and even keep it for a while unless it’s mid, where chaos rules supreme) and while having one of the best elites in game ( water ele) when fighting in small skirmishes ( 1vs1, 1vs2 or 2vs2).

I know it’s more about the ele being god mode ( devs already said eles are doing thief roles and even better than them), but it’s also due to the fact the thief needs to go full glass in order to achieve good damage, something that is not necessarily true for other classes ( HGH power nades, HGH condi nades, valk eles, trap rangers, DPS guards).

Don’t misunderstand me, a thief can still oneshot almost any dps class as long as they have no stunbreak available ( a thief is an asset regarding this), but the thief is also the only class which can be totally annhilated by good communication ( just have a good team spotting the thief and always saying where it is), is the class most easily shut down and overall offers very little aside that burst, even more after haste nerf ( not only for the combo, but also for that trait giving 3 secs haste which gave a nice burst damage even while autoattacking).

Basically, thief squishiness is not correctly trade off with its damage: there are better choices.

And that’s why the thief is still playable, but not optimal anymore.

Basically like war was pre haste nerf.

I’ve played all thief builds and have around 800 games played. Last week i would have said thief was still good. However after playing a mesmer this past week , i did not realise how easy there damage is to avoid.

Caltrops thief is hilarous, to watch him lay down his red rings of death, while i stand away from him rofling. The only people i see them kill are lower skill players who will happily stand in there damage.

Anyway dont have time to go into detail.

IMO bunkers should be looked at and tuned down a fair bit. Then lets look at the thief.

rarebo.1073:

I’ve played all thief builds and have around 800 games played. Last week i would have said thief was still good. However after playing a mesmer this past week , i did not realise how easy there damage is to avoid.

Caltrops thief is hilarous, to watch him lay down his red rings of death, while i stand away from him rofling. The only people i see them kill are lower skill players who will happily stand in there damage.

Anyway dont have time to go into detail.

IMO bunkers should be looked at and tuned down a fair bit. Then lets look at the thief.

Lol.

I can promise you that you haven’t “played every thief build”.

I run a bunker thief myself. They’re crazy. And they’re wonderful. I cannot think of a single build in any class that better mixes control, damage, survivability, tactics, and strategy… They’re brilliant, once you’ve learnt how to play them.

EDIT: Also… Ew, who plays a Cal thief? Sad, really, to base most of your damage on one utility. Easy to avoid the Cals, and then it’s just gg.

Thieves are really not bad at all still. There is a reason alot of teams have thieves and it is because they are good. Warrior has disapeared and necro is seen very little. They are the classes which need help – warrior mainly.

mursie.3681:

evilapprentice.6379:

mursie.3681:

This is for tpvp only. Outside of that, this conversation is not intended.

in tpvp – thiefs are completely and utterly weak, unless their teammates are great. Period. Only the warrior has more issues. It has only one viable build – GC burst.

This class can not assault a point against a bunker 1v1.

This class should not be capping a point unless potentially a back cap ninja..but at moderate to high levels of tpvp..that doesn’t exist.

This class has to engage an enemy….that is already engaged… to eliminate them. This class should not attempt to stomp in a team fight environment. Not because black powder isnt awesome for stomping (it is)… but because the thief is so completely frail that the 3 seconds attempting to stomp will likely end up in you being dead.

Bottom line – if your teammates suck…if they die instantly in an engagement… you as a thief will be totally worthless and bring nothing to the match. You absolutely must be carried by your teammates and if they can carry you… you are an unbelievable offensive weapon. If they can’t carry you… you will bring nothing to help the match.

imho.

In this vein..they are extremely weak. The class requires its teammates to be good and carry in order to realize its potential.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your assessment, just adding a clarification – if properly supported, a theif is an amazing offensive weapon, the class isn’t being carried…its being supported.

Carrying implies that the thief contributes nothing or next to nothing, when you yourself are saying that properly supported they’re a strong offensive asset.

I think it’s semantics but I will try to demonstrate why. If the thief is “not” properly “supported”… they really can’t do anything in the match. They can’t sustain any dmg fights…they can’t bunk…. they can’t cap. They are worthless. Thus, in order to not be worthless… they must be “supported”. If you exchange the word “support” with the word “carry”… I do not believe the message I just wrote changes its meaning whatsoever.

This is technically true… but you can spec to hold up mesmers and D/D eles to such an extent that they can’t cap either and the only thing to break the attrition is when someone else arrives. I’ve been running this for the last couple of days and it’s no glory harvest like I’m used to… but the team win more bouts as a result. If you can cancel out the strengths of their top Mesmer or Ele I think it’s worth the investment.

Thieves offer mobility and burst to teams IMO.

I am get to mid point quicker than most other classes or get to the enemies treb a lot quicker than other classes.

Warriors are pretty much non-existent in tournies. They are great in hotjoins because you have a zerg and most people are noobs. There is a lot more confusion for the warrior to slip in and out of a fight. In tournies they suck. As a thief, I killed this warrior about 3-4 times in a row without ever getting below 50%. He was totally useless the entire game while as I thief I killed thier treb 2-3 times and capped 2-3 points easily because I noticed they had 3-4 @ mid and 1 @ near point and no one at far. I could get to far quicker than anyone else.

Good thieves offer things to a team in tpvp.
Bad thieves are worse than warriors…

I played this morning with a premade vs. some random pug with a crap thief.

They had 4 people at mid and we had 2. I downed downed and stomped their bad thief twice while the 2 of us kill all their players @ clock tower today. I had to revive our bunker guard at least twice tho with refuge.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thieves are really not bad at all still. There is a reason alot of teams have thieves and it is because they are good. Warrior has disapeared and necro is seen very little. They are the classes which need help – warrior mainly.

This is not about them being bad, it’s about other classes being better.

War was “fine” pre haste nerf, but a thief was still better than a war ( unless in rare sinergy situations like time warp + war ).

A thief can’t hold his own in a 1vs1, a thief can be totally neglected by a single timed ress, a thief can’t contest a point for too long in order to wait for back up. etc. etc.

An ele roamer can dish out the same burst of a thief, while offering a lot more.

I know it’s more regarding eles being too good, but they’re not the only one.

Engies, eles, guards can all do thief role , and as long as you have 2 or more eles in your team ( so you’re covered regarding mobility issues) you can easily avoid the thief and having a much more performing group.

Overall, it’s better to have another ele, or a mesmer, than a thief.

Lol just wait for this patch.
Brb mug nerf.
brb more dagger buffs
bet they nerf pistol
prob nerf shortbow
hell prob nerf Sword.
Prob nerf venom share.
Wait on 30th to scratch my bingo card. But I think everyone but the thief will be seeing good things.

ensoriki.5789:

Lol just wait for this patch.
Brb mug nerf.
brb more dagger buffs
bet they nerf pistol
prob nerf shortbow
hell prob nerf Sword.
Prob nerf venom share.
Wait on 30th to scratch my bingo card. But I think everyone but the thief will be seeing good things.

Mug nerfed for sure.

lol if they don’t buff the thief ( after OPENLY saying they need buff in high tier pvp) then it’s time to seriously reroll eles

Mrbig.8019:

ensoriki.5789:

Lol just wait for this patch.
Brb mug nerf.
brb more dagger buffs
bet they nerf pistol
prob nerf shortbow
hell prob nerf Sword.
Prob nerf venom share.
Wait on 30th to scratch my bingo card. But I think everyone but the thief will be seeing good things.

Mug nerfed for sure.

lol if they don’t buff the thief ( after OPENLY saying they need buff in high tier pvp) then it’s time to seriously reroll eles

I just want Shadow Trap fixed next patch:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Shadow-Trap-Makes-No-Sense/

It would make us the most mobile class by a long shot, and add so much more strategy and utility to the class.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

This seems to be what a lot of people agree with. If you’ll notice, thief is second from last and being considered as a candidate for last. Take it as you will

I don’t think we Thieves are stinky at all, I think we do pretty good.
This is just a laid back hot join while watching the draft…
http://www.twitch.tv/russiaussr/c/2206911

I don’t believe at once that “Thieves kind of stink in SPVP” in fact this class excels at spvp, wvw and pvp. How much more Supremacy does this class want?

I encourage Arenanet to not fall into this trap.

Burnfall.9573:

I don’t believe at once that “Thieves kind of stink in SPVP” in fact this class excels at spvp, wvw and pvp. I encourage Arenanet not to into this trap.

thieves do not excel at spvp. Nor do they stink.

I believe thieves are moderate combat wise in spvp. The problem for them in spvp really that makes them a terrible class for it is their reliance on stealth to survive, which is no use while trying to cap a point. Dare I say if they released a new form of pvp, besides conquest, there would be different balancing.

Don’t worry guys Boon Hate is coming

AlBundy.7851:

Don’t worry guys Boon Hate is coming

along with a mug nerf.

then thieves will dominate, along with wars

#forgreatjusticeyoloswag

yolo

“regarding thieves, we want to reduce their overall burst”

#karlismyheroyoloswag

“mug will no longer crit”

#believeinkarlyoloswag

Burnfall.9573:

I don’t believe at once that “Thieves kind of stink in SPVP” in fact this class excels at spvp, wvw and pvp. How much more Supremacy does this class want?

I encourage Arenanet to not fall into this trap.

Can you share what you’re doing with the rest of us please.

Just for the record boys and girls, Daecello here is notorious for posting ridiculously OP balance suggestions on the Thief forums… so yeah… this thread is kind of hilarious, lol.

I think all classes stink in sPvP. nothing but people complaining about everything. (note: including me lol)

Chaith.8256:

They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility.

This kind of feedback can only mean one thing. You’re one of those Thief players in hotjoin that are always on the tunnel vision target’s heels spamming 1111111111 in the air, and get flanked by everyone.

It’s a playstyle issue. Once you discover the magic of Shortbows, you’ll never have a complaint about sustained damage, staying power, or mobility again, I promise.

Sustaining pressure on people:

• Between Trick Shot, Choking Gas, and an occasional Cluster Bomb, your sustained pressure on a point is really high, and extremely easy to do. Auto-attack is easily 50% of your pressure, depending on how much initiative you want to put into cluster bombs. Shortbow is still effective in 1v1’s to dish fair damage while not risking yourself, until the opportunity for a dagger combo arises. Thief Shortbow is one of the best weapons, period. Maximize it!

• Problems with staying power is all in the positioning, & disabiling shot & Shadowstep usage. Convert initiative into evades & cripples when the situation demands, while you lay low for a second or reposition.

• Bad mobility. You can slot signet of shadows, which I personally don’t recommend, or you can press Shortbow 5 more often. I’ll remind you that when you’re escaping, a vertical teleport can put you 5-15 seconds ahead of your pursuers, depending on terrain. You can’t even put a price on this in Temple of the Silent Storm or Khylo maps.

Hope this helps you overcome your problems with sustained pressure, staying power, & mobility.

This was true as of the last patch, but with the changes to trickshot the amount of sustained damage put out by shortbow has been cut roughly in half. Thieves don’t put out enough pressure in team fights with just clusters and trickshots anymore.