Guild Wars 2

It feels an aweful lot like P v NPC.

Elementals, Pets, Rock Dogs, Illusions, Phantasms, Random flying swords and hammers, Thieves guild… EDIT: Oh, Forgot them minions too. Poor Necro minions.

What gives? Why are there so many NPC’s in PvP? Does this really diversify PvP in a meaningful way?

Summons and pets are just damage/support like regular attacks and spells are, but different. They keep class diversity and are part of a handful of variety of strategies.

Agree there is too much of NPC´s in structured PvP.

I tried to discuss it as well in this topic https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-we-fighting-players-or-pets/

DonRobeez.3560:

Summons and pets are just damage/support like regular attacks and spells are, but different. They keep class diversity and are part of a handful of variety of strategies.

This. I don’t find anything wrong with pet elements and think they add another dimension to combat – do I take out the player or the pet?!

You can’t add Necros in there because in GW1 they had that amount of minions. Rangers also had pets in GW1. The Rock Dog does absolutely NO damage whatsoever, and the elementals are an elite. The Mesmer could use some touch ups because I believe you can get higher then 3 clones, but other then that I see no problem in this.

I agree. Nothing worse than sifting through a pile of 20 kitten bone minions or some kitten

I agree, the amount of non player units in PvP is excessive.

Sadly they cant do much about it, its a design choice made long ago and the core of many classes.

They will just have to chalk this one up as a mistake and maybe try and do something with it over time.

Did you know, player > npc.
So what the fuss. when most npc can’t be control by the players themselves which is a big fuss among mesmer >.

there should be no existing of pets in the first place only one pet should be allowed and remove the Mirror thing, i just made a mesmar and i i have an army of mirrors lol

I agree with Mesker. Basically just a poor design choice that’s difficult to retract now.

They talked a lot about wanting animations to be distinct and clearly visible in combat so people don’t have to watch the ui, and pet spam really holds the game back in this regard.

Fights without pets are a cleaner, more enjoyable experience, unfortunately many professions are capable of bringing not just one, but 3-6 npcs. With the right professions/builds a 3v3 fight can become as chaotic as a 12v12.

Imo PvP should have been designed from the ground up with a maximum of 1 npc per player, but it’s really too late to change now.

In order to become a esport they should maybe reconsider the amount of minions/illusions… in a spvp match

If you want a tanky profession that doesn’t die roll mesmer (not guardian). They take alot more to kill than a guardian simply by the fact that they are in stealth way to long with illusions around, they summon illusions too frequently and they have alot of shield abilities. Plus they make you kill yourself with endless stacks of confusion.

Yea I agree! They really failed hard with all the pets and stuff! Just doesnt feel like pvp. If they made so all classes only could have like 1 pet it probably would be ok. But its just a complete mess now! But it will probably never happend. So i guess its back to Aoc again.

And also remove all the npc in all minigame maps!! Like the stupid sharks and stuff in the water! kitten/p>

Just a big fail to even think about having npcs in pvp maps!

Svanirs were missing from the list. So were the excessive amounts of shark. Those are the true npcs.

how about putting some kind of a marker to the clones so we could separate the player from them? an asterisk maybe.

Uhmm….

That would defeat the entire purpose of the clones? They already do nearly 0 damage, so why would I ever bother with clones if there’s a big fat sign “STOP, I’m not real!” on them?

Oh and I think Jordan got beaten by a Mesmer once to often.

The Mesmer could use some touch ups because I believe you can get higher then 3 clones

The only time this occurs is when you use a shatter and begin resummoning. If you used a dodge plus the utility which spans 2 clones theoretically you could have 6 clones up for a period of about 1/2 seconds before the shattered clones finally impact. That said I’m pretty sure all mesmers would rather have the shatter spells made instant and touched up with this.

Streaks.5076:

The Rock Dog does absolutely NO damage whatsoever

Can’t believe you just typed these words on a public forum.

I’ve had Rock Dogs hit for anywhere from 200-500. That’s a lot of damage when you’re trying to finish your opponent, and you have to contend with them using a downed state AUTO ATTACK to hit you for 1k every second, as well as 200-500 every second from the Rock Dog.

Too many kitten NPCs in PvP, period.

There are definitely too many NPCs. Go for the pet or the player is a nice tactical element, but in GW2 “the pet” is more like “the 10 pets” . GW2 is the only game in which you can zerg with one player. We got like:

- ranger pets (these are still fine)
- elementals
- ranger spirits
- mesmer clones
- mesmer illusions
- necromancer minions
- rune rock dog / flesh reaver
- engineer turrets (they don’t move but are also extra things you have to kill)
- sharks (still the worst NPCs tbh)

The excessive amount of pets leads to:

1. you spend more time attacking pets than players, therefore pretty much play more PvE than PvP
2. it’s impossible to see what’s going on when 20 things are moving, shooting, dealing damage

I personally find it one of the few major dissapointing things of GW2 PvP. Until they limit the amount of NPCs to like 2 per player, I will never enjoy this game as much as I did other games.

- mesmer clones
- mesmer illusions

Just as a note, these are the same thing.

Also I guess you never played against a frost mage in wow or against a strong beast cleave.

Issues I’ve had with pets in PvP:

- all of them mess up targeting on my Elems skills. RTL bugs out and takes me to closest pet rather than targeted player for instance. As well, Downed abilities target closest NPC even though you have another player targeted. This goes for any NPC in PvP. It’s gotten to the point where I switched my Elite to the Elemental summon just to mess with peoples game play since I assume it can’t just be me having issues with it. Popping it usually means I win the fight for some reason even though I’m just running around trying not to die typically. Just let the NPC do the work!

- pets doing more dmg than players. too many Rangers content to sit behind their pet (which are markedly tougher than any other pets) and spamming crossfire – literally only hitting the one skill, while the pet does all the meaningful dmg. Crossfire will hit for 500ish and pet will hit for 2k – 4k. I check my combat log regularly against Rangers to see if they do anything different. They don’t. They may switch weapons, but the pet is still doing all the dog. Why aren’t they paper thin like Mesmer illusions if they’re going to be doing so much dmg?

The whole pet system just doesn’t seem well thought out.

Well the autotargetting system we can assume is there for the mesmers to not as easily be pointed out.

Now that that has been said, the autotargetting system will put me on minions/turrets a lot while I am trying to hit something.

Just aoe them down! On my elementalist, I just set all those dumb pets on fire. A petless minion master necro is hilarious to kill.

To be honest with you, I found phantasm mesmer easier to kill than a warrior and guardian. Don’t know why people complain about mesmer. If you kill those phantasms with aoe, mesmer has no dps. If he uses 2h sword, close in and he has no dps, lol.

hackks.3687:

Issues I’ve had with pets in PvP:

- pets doing more dmg than players. too many Rangers content to sit behind their pet (which are markedly tougher than any other pets) and spamming crossfire – literally only hitting the one skill, while the pet does all the meaningful dmg. Crossfire will hit for 500ish and pet will hit for 2k – 4k. I check my combat log regularly against Rangers to see if they do anything different. They don’t. They may switch weapons, but the pet is still doing all the dog. Why aren’t they paper thin like Mesmer illusions if they’re going to be doing so much dmg?

The whole pet system just doesn’t seem well thought out.

I agree with you on ranger pet. Unlike phantasms, their pets are tough to kill and they do very good damage on my elementalist. Dog bites hurt!

Also why are those pets still up when their owners are down?? It’s so unfair for petless classes. I have downed mesmers before and I have little health left, then theirkittenillusions will kill me. In down states, their illusions keep pounding on me…

My main is mesmer but I only pvp on my elementalist alt, d/d elementalist is so much more fun and exiciting than mesmer. Relying on pets is so boring.

If you take out pets you severely cripple many professions that rely on them. Pets are pivotal to several profession builds, without them the forums would be abuzz with Necromancers, mesmers, rangers, elemantalist, and if you take the concept too far guardians complaining up a storm.

This seems like a rather long list of professions to tick off because some players have a hard time discerning target priorities or dealing with the chaotic battle the little buggers cause.

Futhermore, what would a ranger be without their pet? Or a mesmer without thier illusions? Not to mention necro pets would have to be uber buffed if their bone buddies where limited to one.

Futhermore, what would a ranger be without their pet? Or a mesmer without thier illusions?

A mesmer could be a mesmer without his illusions, there was a mesmer in gw1 and illusions are unheard of.

A shutdown mesmer was fine in guildwars one bringing 0 damage to the table, and I mean none, it was just as viable as anything else and my preferred way of playing.

Malakree.5912:

- mesmer clones
- mesmer illusions

Just as a note, these are the same thing.

just as a note, they are not. Clones look like the player, have kitteny HP and don’t do much damage, illusions are pink / see through, have more HP, and can do lots of dmg.

Sharks arekitten in Capricorn. Seriously. They’re absolutely ridiculous, and I’m so thankful it’s not in tourney games because of that.

Veldan.4637:

Malakree.5912:

- mesmer clones
- mesmer illusions

Just as a note, these are the same thing.

just as a note, they are not. Clones look like the player, have kitteny HP and don’t do much damage, illusions are pink / see through, have more HP, and can do lots of dmg.

Illusions include clones and phantasms. You were referring to phantasms when you said “illusions.” My main is a memser but hardly pvp. I have fought numerous mesmers on my ele, though.

I like being at the zoo and all, but this game takes the cake.

I’ll take a poo flinging monkey over a horde of illusions and summoned thieves and magical weapons anyday. Seriously, tone it down. I wouldnt say it promotes amazingly skilled or exciting to watch play with all these fire and forget buttons with huge damage or repeated effects flying around. Also getting tired of feeling like Noa’s Arch shipwrecked in front of me with angry, 0 IQ scripts pouring out, blowing kitten up with no thought required. This many braindead stupid minions running around is stupid.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Futhermore, what would a ranger be without their pet? Or a mesmer without thier illusions?

A mesmer could be a mesmer without his illusions, there was a mesmer in gw1 and illusions are unheard of.

A shutdown mesmer was fine in guildwars one bringing 0 damage to the table, and I mean none, it was just as viable as anything else and my preferred way of playing.

I understand how this answers “Or a mesmer without thier illusions?” in a way, as you say that they didnt have them in GW2; but how does that apply to this game where they are built around them. I also highly doubt that doing zero damage would be fun for many ppl since scoring does not take into consideration support or control abilities at all.

How is your statement germane to the topic? How does it contribute to the thread? Even if their was viable builds for the mesmer or other classes to be pet or bone buddiless( and I think with necro their one or two, idk), why should you destroy pet heavy builds for the sake of convenience. Sorry If I sound rude, I have slept in a while, I promise I was trying to be respectful.

Does a mesmer really need 3 illusion which get one shot? Does a thief really need to summon 2 more thiefs? Do we really need sharks a dozen bloodthirsty sharks with a 500yard aggro? Is a guardian useless if he cant summon multiple magical weapons? Will the game die without summoning frickinging Rock Dogs from GEAR?

How its done is up to arena net, if they even agree at all, discussing nerfs is not done anyway on these forums as people take it way too personally and start insulting. But personally i think that we could reduce the amount of summons on some spells while buffing them, and flat out removing some. I think it would make the game far more enjoyable both to play and to watch.

I also highly doubt that doing zero damage would be fun for many ppl since scoring does not take into consideration support or control abilities at all.

Fun and score are two different things. Plenty of people liked playing guildwars 1 mesmer as control.

How is your statement germane to the topic? How does it contribute to the thread?

It doesn’t matter if it was related to the thread it was related to your post in the same thread, not like I just said something completely off topic and random, and it also had to do with illusions anyways.

but how does that apply to this game where they are built around them.

If you redo the traits a bit to where illusions are mostly related to chaos/illusions, you wouldn’t need them for the new builds possible (domination), at all really.

I really do not see the huge problem with the amount of pets or whatever in this game. It’s the way those respective classes work.

- pets doing more dmg than players. too many Rangers content to sit behind their pet (which are markedly tougher than any other pets) and spamming crossfire – literally only hitting the one skill, while the pet does all the meaningful dmg. Crossfire will hit for 500ish and pet will hit for 2k – 4k. I check my combat log regularly against Rangers to see if they do anything different. They don’t. They may switch weapons, but the pet is still doing all the dog. Why aren’t they paper thin like Mesmer illusions if they’re going to be doing so much dmg?

This is literally the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. For one, Crossfire hits for 500ish if they’re full condition damage build. They’re doing damage from bleeds and poison. Secondly, if you run a pet that hits for 2k (not 4k, not even in full pet build do they hit for 4k) then it IS paper thin. Please, at least research or play the class before you start coming up with problematic balance issues.

Ranger pets are unreliable, squishy, buggy, unresponsive, and they’re the main component of the Ranger class. The Ranger pet SHOULD do a lot of damage if they’re squishy or full pet build, it’s a huge part of the class. Either way, you can’t even run pet build reliably because of how buggy and unresponsive the pets are.

The passive damage from pets is kind of silly. Almost all professions have some form of it, and there’s several runes and sigils that have them. Mesmer Illusions are especially annoying, since they typically do 70%+ of the total damage to me.

I really like that each prof has this, it’s another level of complexity.

…Then again, this is coming from an MM. xD