This is why your warrior isn't good. Part 1.

This is why your warrior isn't good. Part 1.

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Warrior has a good selection of weapons, the problem is traits.

Traits, conditions AND positioning. (no blink, no stealth, no real defense)

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Posted by: ilJumperMT.4871

ilJumperMT.4871

Warrior has a good selection of weapons, the problem is traits.

Traits, conditions AND positioning. (no blink, no stealth, no real defense)

Traits can fix conditions, like someone suggested immoblize strike removes chill and cripple also. I like that idea

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Posted by: Oni.5429

Oni.5429

Keep this thread going, considering how dominant we are atm I’d love to see how well our team would do with the absurd warrior we’d have if we gave all the buffs ya’ll want here c:

Crs Helseth, Mesmer for Team Curse

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Posted by: Schwahrheit.4203

Schwahrheit.4203

Warrior has a good selection of weapons, the problem is traits.

Traits, conditions AND positioning. (no blink, no stealth, no real defense)

Traits can fix conditions, like someone suggested immoblize strike removes chill and cripple also. I like that idea

That’d be me. Its Mobile Strikes* btw. I also suggested making “Leg Specialist” a more accessible trait just so it doesn’t feel clunky when you trait for it as a DPS.

Discipline’s trait line also needs something better. That 3% burst damage is the most useless thing ever and it needs to be changed. And lets not forget about the tactics minor traits.

And nerf Ele’s to the ground already. You shouldn’t be able to shut down a class when you press that permanent chill Aura share button.

Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?

(edited by Schwahrheit.4203)

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

Warrior has a good selection of weapons, the problem is traits.

Traits, conditions AND positioning. (no blink, no stealth, no real defense)

Traits can fix conditions, like someone suggested immoblize strike removes chill and cripple also. I like that idea

And nerf Ele’s to the ground already. You shouldn’t be able to shut down a class when you press that permanent chill Aura share button.

lol!!You know it doesn proc from range and you can just avoidusing mutli hits when its up?
But of course ele in regards to the popular belief has the best healing,massive burst ,sustain,best mobility AND perma chill now all in the fotm 30/30/30/30/30/30 build :P
Thats like a post here which said warriors can pull of 30k 100 blades..mind you.

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Posted by: Wreckdum.8367

Wreckdum.8367

Really bugs you getting rolled by a higher skill ceiling class doesn’t it? Because that’s really what it looks like.
No offense.
/eyeroll

Funniest thing I’ve read today… Having 20 abilities never having to worry about CDs is a higher skill ceiling… I would say trying to do more with less would require more skill. Yeah we get it. D/D can do everything. Fill whatever roll they want. I wouldn’t call that player skill as much as the devs giving them too much versatility. A class is supposed to fill A roll not ALL rolls.

Rex Smashington – 80 Norn Warrior <Tyrians United Retard Division> Yak’s Bend
“That big kitten Norn with The Juggernaut”

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

The fact that nearly all of your weapon skills and profession skills do WAY more damage and you still have WAY more health then I do when I try to achieve max dmg.

In what situations, if you blur frenzy and i 100b you, lets see who dies the fastes. It’s not PvE. Try play a decent mesmer and be r40+ and have experience with paids (not temple week), I think it will change your mind. Suggestions please. Don’t compare your lack of experience on a mesmer with another class.

Lack of experience on a mesmer? Lol. And if you 100B me I wouldn’t do BF I would do a COF which when traited gives me retaliation and I would watch as you kill yourself because I am not the cookie cutter shatter glass cannon mesmer. I am a tank and I can out tank most guardians with my build. So please don’t resort to calling me inexperienced at a class that I have many hours on as well as being the person that people go to in my guild when they want mesmer advice. Just no.

Why bother going Tanky Mesmer? If you played against any good Mesmer you would see how he pulls all enemy team inside his shatter spike. You know something called Focus which most people seem to think Pistol is better.

Chukree can confirm that “Cookie Glass Cannon Mesmer” is a beast in tPVP especially in Mid fights. If you co-ordinate spike with AoE Pull/Shatter you can down whole enemy team.

I do admit that Confusion Mesmer is strong against Time Warp though

Why bother going tanky Mesmer? Because as a tank my HP is higher than the “viable” warrior builds. My phantasmal defender is my own personal tank that can make me go “haha I didn’t even feel that” against the AHMAGERD back stab thief and even if I don’t the poor guys tuck tail and run when they realize “OMG HE HAS TOUGHNESS I CAN’T WIN” . I can also out bunker a guardian. I can have a full up time on retaliation which can kill most of the “cookie cutter builds” before they realize they have 8 stacks of confusion on them and I have 45 seconds of retaliation up. And do I realize this thing called focus? WHERE DO YOU THINK MY RETALIATION COMES FROM! Not just my shatters but combo finishers off the only light field that a Mesmer has because of the focus! All of my shatters grants some sort of defensive capability to me, vigor, retaliation, reflection. So while the cookie cutter may be a “beast” he still goes down from a wet sneeze like most high burst builds.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: KeepersWay.4159

KeepersWay.4159

People need to understand that a class can’t be god at everything it does. like look at the warrior in pve it just a cake walk by far the strongest pve class. now if they become top tier in pvp then whats the point of rolling other classes besides personal interest. people over time will get tired of seeing warriors hence will make a warrior themselves.

and don’t say I dislike the class cause I have a thief,warrior,guardian and I think they all have their pros and cons.

Warriors are fine how they are if pvp needs work then the pve warrior strength needs to be toned down.

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Posted by: Xom.9264

Xom.9264

GW1 Warriors were OP they are fine in GW2

Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET

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Posted by: Schwahrheit.4203

Schwahrheit.4203

GW1 Warriors were OP they are fine in GW2

-Doesn’t play a Warrior
-Thinks he knows how Warrior works with how OP chills and “I messed up” buttons are
-Talks out of thin air without any argument

Typical. Warriors are getting buffed to deal with broken BS if ANET cares. Its going to happen so don’t even regret it when they do get buffed considering you were talking crap about Warriors a long time ago.

And if you’re suggesting to “nerf to balance” on Warrior’s balance then everyone is going to quit because no one wants to take effort to make a class work. You balance around Ranger easily.

Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?

(edited by Schwahrheit.4203)

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Posted by: King James.2659

King James.2659

Warrior class is beyond broken. Just because one prof is good in PvE doesn’t mean they’re balanced in PvP. Completely different scenarios, because in the end, nearly anything is viable in PvE lol.

Bam Bam

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Warrior class is beyond broken. Just because one prof is good in PvE doesn’t mean they’re balanced in PvP. Completely different scenarios, because in the end, nearly anything is viable in PvE lol.

No, because when LFG posts say “warrior for speed run or pizz off”, it’s not really a scenario where everything is viable.

You try running a kitten group, especially in Arah, without warriors and the difference in experience is huge. A warrior or two in your group will likely halve the duration of the run. They easily double many classes’ damage output. In case of the necro, triple.

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Posted by: Sand Beagle.9867

Sand Beagle.9867

Ele’s take far more player skill to utilize than any warrior spec. Warriors aren’t complicated to play, they’re just poorly designed. It’s sad that you’re still so bad at video games you think a basic A-B class design like warriors are more complex than playing a d/d ele.
You’ve also been kittening about eles for a long time now. Really bugs you getting rolled by a higher skill ceiling class doesn’t it? Because that’s really what it looks like.
No offense.
/eyeroll

I am not sure what you were trying to say about A-B, but i am assuming you are saying warriors are “linear” and eles are, what, triangles?

The real skill ceiling in gw2 is in team play not individual class play. At best, Ele just has 10 more skill buttons to hit than other classes. As far as inter-attunement combos, well they are all extremely simple and intuitive, so i wouldnt say the ele is a “complex” class (nor any gw2 class).

As far as the D/D ele vs warrior, well, both have virtually one good build, but as you can see:
D/D ele:
1. High defense, average HP, extremely tanky.
2. Good mobility in combat and non-combat.
3. Good DPS and even burst.
4. Excellent teamwork capability like dual ele cross-healing.
5. Constant healing/regen potential.
6. Great condition removal.
7. Good CC
8. Panic buttons that are great at escaping burst like mistform and teleport.
9. Multiple ways to reset a fight.

100b warrior:
1. Low defense, medium-high HP, glass cannon.
2. Average non-combat mobility, mediocre combat mobility.
3. Average DPS, and good but extremely predictable burst (not to mention bull charge has bad pathfinding issues).
4. Very limited teamwork capability unless you use warhammer and battle standard (which limits your damage/burst potential).
5. Very very bad healing, all 3 warrior heals are bad and dont scale well with a warrior’s high natural HP
6. Dreadful condition removal.
7. Bad CC, only bullscharge, unless you use warhammer (even then there is no “selfish” use for the warhammer since the warrior cant do much once they knock someone down except to land half a 100b combo).
8. No panic buttons, unless you count a 3 second kitten-tier invulnerability that doesnt even stop condition damage.
9. No way to reset the fight unless you count leaving melee range to run away (barely even out of 900-1200 range) to wait for your mediocre heal to come up.

There are obviously more reasons, but i think this kind of sums it up.

Which class really takes the most skill to be effective at.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

LOL average HP on an ele? More like lowest in game, lower than a warrior with no kitten investment in vitality even when the ele invests 20-30 points in his vit traitline.

And warrior, “average DPS”? Stop joking, please. You have the hardest hitting autoattacks and single hit abilities in the game. Your Whirlwind and mainhand axe do the damage classes like the ranger can only dream off.

Ele burst is also pretty predictable. They updraft you, expect a Burning Speed>Fire Grab. If they ever enter earth attunement, expect earthquake and churning earth. Every single key ability the ele has has an obviously telegraphed animation that is incredibly easy to dodge unless you are CC’d. They have Updraft and Earthquake on relatively high cd’s. Earthquake you can even dodge reliably.

Bad mobility for the warrior? Are you serious? Try playing a guardian or greatsword ranger and then go cry about mobility, please.

Warrior is not as great as mesmers and thieves and dd eles. But they sure as hell are nowhere near broken status like non-gimmicky ranger, engineer, or necro specs. You try playing a class whose only use is boon removal and needs to be babysat 24/7 like the necro, or a class with no damage whatsoever like the engineer, or a class whose only redeeming quality is traps — utilities, not even the ranger’s own weapons.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Ele’s take far more player skill to utilize than any warrior spec. Warriors aren’t complicated to play, they’re just poorly designed. It’s sad that you’re still so bad at video games you think a basic A-B class design like warriors are more complex than playing a d/d ele.
You’ve also been kittening about eles for a long time now. Really bugs you getting rolled by a higher skill ceiling class doesn’t it? Because that’s really what it looks like.
No offense.
/eyeroll

I am not sure what you were trying to say about A-B, but i am assuming you are saying warriors are “linear” and eles are, what, triangles?

The real skill ceiling in gw2 is in team play not individual class play. At best, Ele just has 10 more skill buttons to hit than other classes. As far as inter-attunement combos, well they are all extremely simple and intuitive, so i wouldnt say the ele is a “complex” class (nor any gw2 class).

As far as the D/D ele vs warrior, well, both have virtually one good build, but as you can see:
D/D ele:
1. High defense, average HP, extremely tanky.
2. Good mobility in combat and non-combat.
3. Good DPS and even burst.
4. Excellent teamwork capability like dual ele cross-healing.
5. Constant healing/regen potential.
6. Great condition removal.
7. Good CC
8. Panic buttons that are great at escaping burst like mistform and teleport.
9. Multiple ways to reset a fight.

100b warrior:
1. Low defense, medium-high HP, glass cannon.
2. Average non-combat mobility, mediocre combat mobility.
3. Average DPS, and good but extremely predictable burst (not to mention bull charge has bad pathfinding issues).
4. Very limited teamwork capability unless you use warhammer and battle standard (which limits your damage/burst potential).
5. Very very bad healing, all 3 warrior heals are bad and dont scale well with a warrior’s high natural HP
6. Dreadful condition removal.
7. Bad CC, only bullscharge, unless you use warhammer (even then there is no “selfish” use for the warhammer since the warrior cant do much once they knock someone down except to land half a 100b combo).
8. No panic buttons, unless you count a 3 second kitten-tier invulnerability that doesnt even stop condition damage.
9. No way to reset the fight unless you count leaving melee range to run away (barely even out of 900-1200 range) to wait for your mediocre heal to come up.

There are obviously more reasons, but i think this kind of sums it up.

Which class really takes the most skill to be effective at.

It bears repeating!

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Zenith? In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

Bad mobility for the warrior? Are you serious? Try playing a guardian or greatsword ranger and then go cry about mobility, please.

Ranger and guardian prefer conditions and range. You dont know what you say, m8.

Warrior is broken. Tons of conditions, tons of bunker-skills and tons of blinkblink-advantages make this class – USELESS. Try, play a warrior and you´ll see.

(edited by Miko.5726)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Zenith? In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

Bad mobility for the warrior? Are you serious? Try playing a guardian or greatsword ranger and then go cry about mobility, please.

Ranger and guardian prefer conditions and range. You dont know what you say, m8.

Warrior is broken. Tons of conditions, tons of bunker-skills and tons of blinkblink-advantages make this class – USELESS. Try, play a warrior and you´ll see.

Conditions and range? WTH? Ranger longbow is garbage, and the shortbow has no range preference. And, most importantly, for every weapon of every profession the melee weapon is superior in damage output, always.

You don’t get to be the only class that should be good at melee damage. Condition builds are horrible against elementalists and engineers and guardians and necromancers, so those are nonstarters.

Guardian and ranger have less mobility in their melee weapons than you. If you are going to pull the range card — bring a kitten rifle yourself, then.

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Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

Anyone who doesn’t think Warriors need a rework, I strongly urge you to 1) go to your character selection screen. 2) Create a Warrior. 3) Find a group, and do paid tournament pvp on said Warrior. Just try it. Experience it yourself.

Your eyes will be opened up by how horrifyingly bad Warriors perform in tournaments in comparison to other classes. If you do see a good Warrior in tourneys, it’s because they are working 200% harder than all other players to reach a level of acceptable mediocrity. That same player could hop onto a different class to remove their own handicap, and perform exceptionally better.

(edited by zone.1073)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Anyone who doesn’t think Warriors need a rework, I strongly urge you to 1) go to your character selection screen. 2) Create a Warrior. 3) Find a group, and do paid tournament pvp on said Warrior. Just try it. Experience it yourself.

Your eyes will be opened up by how horrifyingly bad Warriors perform in tournaments in comparison to other classes. If you do see a good Warrior in tourneys, it’s because they are working 200% harder than all other players to reach a level of acceptable mediocrity. That same player could hop onto a different class to remove their own handicap, and perform exceptionally better.

Go to you your character creation screen, and create an Engineer or Necromancer. Those are actually demanding classes.

Especially engineers. For an engineer to succeed, he has to spend the effort of many classes combined.

Also, if you’re craving punishment, run a minion necromancer. No wells. No staff.

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Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

Anyone who doesn’t think Warriors need a rework, I strongly urge you to 1) go to your character selection screen. 2) Create a Warrior. 3) Find a group, and do paid tournament pvp on said Warrior. Just try it. Experience it yourself.

Your eyes will be opened up by how horrifyingly bad Warriors perform in tournaments in comparison to other classes. If you do see a good Warrior in tourneys, it’s because they are working 200% harder than all other players to reach a level of acceptable mediocrity. That same player could hop onto a different class to remove their own handicap, and perform exceptionally better.

Go to you your character creation screen, and create an Engineer or Necromancer. Those are actually demanding classes.

Especially engineers. For an engineer to succeed, he has to spend the effort of many classes combined.

Also, if you’re craving punishment, run a minion necromancer. No wells. No staff.

Never mind that many top teams in the competitive scene use engineers and necros. Let’s just be ignorant about that? Ok sounds good.

You really do have no idea of what you’re talking about. And that sums up 95% of the people on this forum.

(edited by zone.1073)

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Okay, you argue about 1 vs 1 situations . Well, what about warriors?

Backstab-Thieve = 50 : 50
Thieve = 100 % (with pistol or shortbow)
Ranger = 100 % Ranger win (tons of conditions and pet)
Necrotic = 100 % Necrotic win (tons of conditions and hp-pool)
Guardian = 100 % Guardian win (best class ingame, nuff said)
Elementist = 100 % Elementist win (heal, cc and movement)
Engineer = 100 % Engineer win (nades, nades and conditions)
Mesmer = 100 % Mesmer win (well played mesmer is unbeatable)

This game wanna go for eSports! This isn´t a l2p issue, it´s only a design-issue.

(edited by Miko.5726)

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Go to you your character creation screen, and create an Engineer or Necromancer. Those are actually demanding classes.

Necromancer still destroy Warriors by tons of conditions, Engineer also ? (sorry, my english isn´t good)

I´m playing Mesmer, Guardian and Ranger. I must say, Warrior sucks in all ways.

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Posted by: Wooyadeen.6491

Wooyadeen.6491

Never mind that many top teams in the competitive scene use engineers and necros. Let’s just be ignorant about that? Ok sounds good.

You really do have no idea of what you’re talking about. And that sums up 95% of the people on this forum.

Why do you bother answer to these posts? Stop feeding troll.

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Posted by: Psybunny.8906

Psybunny.8906

Okay, you argue about 1 vs 1 situations . Well, what about warriors?

Backstab-Thieve = 50 : 50
Thieve = 100 % (with pistol or shortbow)
Ranger = 100 % Ranger win (tons of conditions and pet)
Necrotic = 100 % Necrotic win (tons of conditions and hp-pool)
Guardian = 100 % Guardian win (best class ingame, nuff said)
Elementist = 100 % Elementist win (heal, cc and movement)
Engineer = 100 % Engineer win (nades, nades and conditions)
Mesmer = 100 % Mesmer win (well played mesmer is unbeatable)

This game wanna go for eSports! This isn´t a l2p issue, it´s only a design-issue.

If both play perfectly and are on the same skilllevel then I actually agree with this. Situation changes a bit in teamfights, but since our role in teamfights is burst and gtfo before we die, it’s not really a plus.

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Okay, you argue about 1 vs 1 situations . Well, what about warriors?

Backstab-Thieve = 50 : 50
Thieve = 100 % (with pistol or shortbow)
Ranger = 100 % Ranger win (tons of conditions and pet)
Necrotic = 100 % Necrotic win (tons of conditions and hp-pool)
Guardian = 100 % Guardian win (best class ingame, nuff said)
Elementist = 100 % Elementist win (heal, cc and movement)
Engineer = 100 % Engineer win (nades, nades and conditions)
Mesmer = 100 % Mesmer win (well played mesmer is unbeatable)

This game wanna go for eSports! This isn´t a l2p issue, it´s only a design-issue.

If both play perfectly and are on the same skilllevel then I actually agree with this. Situation changes a bit in teamfights, but since our role in teamfights is burst and gtfo before we die, it’s not really a plus.

Yes, of course!

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Definition of average damage in GW2

A) Ele= 600 dmg dragon’s claw and 1.5k ( 2k crit) dmg from burning speed(15s CD) on 2.8k armor targets, 2-3k dmg from churning earth(30s CD- 4.5s channeling) and 800-1k dmg from earthquake(45s CD)

B) Warrior= 3k dmg axe-autoattack on 2.8k armor targets , 3-4k dmg eviscerate(6-8s CD) and 8k-10kdmg 100b combo passing to GS

End result- ele “burst” more than warriors O_o?! WTF?

With a warrior even using 1800 Power I have never seen a single damage skill below 1.2k dmg, at the lowest level of power the auto-attack on any weapon set is above 1k, go try ele and have fun with 100 dmg from staff auto-attacks, the same developers have admitted that ele auto-attacks are the lowest across the board, the coefficient for eles auto-attack reach a min of 0.2 point where warrior got min 1.2 coefficient on every single damage skill..

(edited by Arheundel.6451)

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Posted by: Psybunny.8906

Psybunny.8906

Definition of average damage in GW2

A) Ele= 600 dmg dragon’s claw and 1.5k ( 2k crit) dmg from burning speed(15s CD) on 2.8k armor targets, 2-3k dmg from churning earth(30s CD- 4.5s channeling) and 800-1k dmg from earthquake(45s CD)

B) Warrior= 3k dmg axe-autoattack on 2.8k armor targets , 3-4k dmg eviscerate(6-8s CD) and 8k-10kdmg 100b combo passing to GS

End result- ele “burst” more than warriors O_o?! WTF?

What in the hell builds are you using? Damage on both professions are really low, but 3k auto vs 3k eviscerate? Since we are on a spvp board, then also take into account effective burst. Warrior damage = zero when not in melee range.

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Definition of average damage in GW2

A) Ele= 600 dmg dragon’s claw and 1.5k ( 2k crit) dmg from burning speed(15s CD) on 2.8k armor targets, 2-3k dmg from churning earth(30s CD- 4.5s channeling) and 800-1k dmg from earthquake(45s CD)

B) Warrior= 3k dmg axe-autoattack on 2.8k armor targets , 3-4k dmg eviscerate(6-8s CD) and 8k-10kdmg 100b combo passing to GS

End result- ele “burst” more than warriors O_o?! WTF?

What in the hell builds are you using? Damage on both professions are really low, but 3k auto vs 3k eviscerate? Since we are on a spvp board, then also take into account effective burst. Warrior damage = zero when not in melee range.

2-3k average axe auto-attack dmg on tanky ele with protection up, 3-4k dmg from eviscerate under the same circumstances, an ele to reach those number must be full glass cannon, but people keep saying that a bunker ele deal 3-4k burst dmg?…lol

Basically warriors got traits/utilities that remove conditions and heal but don’t want to use them because they like to one-shot people and hence they play glass cannon with no support utilities or weapons ( hammer/mace)..but still expect to be as durable as a profession which fully specc in survival with 3 stun breakers and all the condition removal trait in the vitality line.

Complete lack of logic….

(edited by Arheundel.6451)

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

@ Arheundel, sorry, but it´s only trolling. In Germany we say: Bla bla bla …

Read and understand THIS: In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

It´s kinda easy – for every class – kiting a warrior. Also, the conditions and GEOGRAPHY of the maps you can do to your advantage. It doesn´t matter the ele makes less damage, he will outplayed the warrior with heal and mobility + cc.

(edited by Miko.5726)

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

@ Arheundel, sorry, but it´s only trolling. In Germany we say: Bla bla bla …

Read and understand THIS: In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

It´s kinda easy – for every class – kiting a warrior. Also, the conditions and GEOGRAPHY of the maps you can do to your advantage. It doesn´t matter the ele makes less damage, he will outplayed the warrior with heal and mobility + cc.

You simply can’t overcome my logic, I speak the truth and use real numbers..you lot use your own theory and non-existing numbers therefore you call “troll” anybody who slap you hard in the face with the sad truth…..that you want to play glass cannon and win a battle of attrition against somebody specced for survival….absolutely ridicolous.

Warriors got way more way to get close than enemies to get to away( unless he’s a trapper ranger) and you complain that you get kited, that’s simply a l2p issue, you’ve got ranged options also, viable ones, people have posted dozen of videos and your answer to these videos it’s always the same :" lol pro vs noobs"…ever thought that “maybe” you’re the noob?!

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

(@3 posts above :P )People saying bunker ele does damage are ignorrant.You can equip berzerkers amulet and 3 cantrips go in hot join and tank even 5 noobs while killing them.Or even in free tourneys an ele with sigil of energy,vigor,arcane shield,2 armor of earth,mist,lightning flas can hold 2+ rank ~30 for a VERY long time if played properly regardless of stats and even kill them..
Then you get people posting in forums “bla bla ele bunker can kill bla bla”. A true ele bunker with clerics WONT kill you even if you go afk..
And to be honest this game its about avoiding damage..any class with excessive dodging, the mobility of ele, plenty of stunbreakers.access of protection and regen and a couple of stunbreakers will be a pain in the kitten to kill regardless of healing or toughness etc..
Now about warrior imo damage is fine as is survivability in 100 blades spec..Condies that lock them down like chill and kiting is their problem.Also think the possibility of having better range options with buffing the longbow/rifle.

(edited by Avead.5760)

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

@ Arheundel, sorry, but it´s only trolling. In Germany we say: Bla bla bla …

Read and understand THIS: In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

It´s kinda easy – for every class – kiting a warrior. Also, the conditions and GEOGRAPHY of the maps you can do to your advantage. It doesn´t matter the ele makes less damage, he will outplayed the warrior with heal and mobility + cc.

You simply can’t overcome my logic, I speak the truth and use real numbers..you lot use your own theory and non-existing numbers therefore you call “troll” anybody who slap you hard in the face with the sad truth…..that you want to play glass cannon and win a battle of attrition against somebody specced for survival….absolutely ridicolous.

Warriors got way more way to get close than enemies to get to away( unless he’s a trapper ranger) and you complain that you get kited, that’s simply a l2p issue, you’ve got ranged options also, viable ones, people have posted dozen of videos and your answer to these videos it’s always the same :" lol pro vs noobs"…ever thought that “maybe” you’re the noob?!

I must laugh, sorry. Atm, NO rifle oder longbow-m8 beaten me, i swear. Rifle isn´t an option because you will focused and offers mobility. Sword/Shild, Axe/Shield, maybe Mace/Shield plus Great Sword (for mobility) is the only viable build for competive PvP. Yes, you can play with longbow, but why? Rangers, Necrotics, Mesmer and Elementist do a better job.

(edited by Miko.5726)

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

@ Arheundel, sorry, but it´s only trolling. In Germany we say: Bla bla bla …

Read and understand THIS: In (all) fairness it must be said that … autoattack needs melee-range …

It´s kinda easy – for every class – kiting a warrior. Also, the conditions and GEOGRAPHY of the maps you can do to your advantage. It doesn´t matter the ele makes less damage, he will outplayed the warrior with heal and mobility + cc.

You simply can’t overcome my logic, I speak the truth and use real numbers..you lot use your own theory and non-existing numbers therefore you call “troll” anybody who slap you hard in the face with the sad truth…..that you want to play glass cannon and win a battle of attrition against somebody specced for survival….absolutely ridicolous.

Warriors got way more way to get close than enemies to get to away( unless he’s a trapper ranger) and you complain that you get kited, that’s simply a l2p issue, you’ve got ranged options also, viable ones, people have posted dozen of videos and your answer to these videos it’s always the same :" lol pro vs noobs"…ever thought that “maybe” you’re the noob?!

I must laugh, sorry. Atm, NO rifle oder longbow-m8 beaten me, i swear. Rifle isn´t an option because you will focused and offers mobility. Sword/Shild, Axe/Shield, maybe Mace/Shield plus Great Sword (for mobility) is the only viable build for competive PvP. Yes, you can play with longbow, but why? Rangers, Necrotics, Mesmer and Elementist do a better job.

What you consider viable is different from what is effectively viable, play what you want but don’t say the options are not there, if you can’t play a build with a rifle than it’s your fault not because the rifle is not viable, you simply can’t beat everything with a single build….

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Tell me the advantages of the rifle? Do you know the F1-skill? If that was an instant-skill, yes, it would be nice … but it´s only a dream, not reality.

Btw i don´t play a full 100 % glass cannon-build. Atm i try this one

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejgO1wxOCPMRCAkCsyyowIgUKs7uUBxA;TsAA1CnoQygkAJLSOkkItgYQxGEA

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

I think with an ranger, mesmer, ele or other op 1vs1 classes, he was a beastMASTER.

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Posted by: Royce.6835

Royce.6835

Dueled a warrior in WvW (I know this is pvp) BUT this guy ran Sword/Shield GS combo and he was a beast. I’m sorry I think warriors are fine.

“I am a very inexperienced pvper. I fought a warrior who was just as bad as me. He wrecked me. Warriors are fine.”

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Posted by: Miko.5726

Miko.5726

Royce, this was a Rolls-Royce answer and imo the truth.

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Tell me the advantages of the rifle? Do you know the F1-skill? If that was an instant-skill, yes, it would be nice … but it´s only a dream, not reality.

Btw i don´t play a full 100 % glass cannon-build. Atm i try this one

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejgO1wxOCPMRCAkCsyyowIgUKs7uUBxA;TsAA1CnoQygkAJLSOkkItgYQxGEA

Do you think to be the only profession with long activation skill? At the very least people must do something in order to avoid the automatic homing of Killshot, they must dodge or block…they can’t simply walk away from it like against a staff ele, but the fact is that I plan my aoe so that I can hit people with it…even if they need 4s to activate, sometimes tactics is required to win….too many professions with auto-homing skills in this game ( thief-mesmer are the most hateful profession as they’ve got almost everything on auto-homing)…between HS auto-facing/leap-auto homing and blurred frenzy invulnerability/auto-face…it’s sad enough already

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Posted by: Royce.6835

Royce.6835

actually, i just tried several variations of balanced builds. that’s the problem with warrior. their traits are subpar and do not allow them to build defensively without being SEVERELY outclassed.

please. do not make me post clips of my damage on a dummy showing you the differences. the defense gain is NOT high enough for the dps loss. my dps is divided by 3-4. that’s way too high. i don’t like how you talk as if you know all this and tested it.. because i know for a fact if you really tested it, you wouldn’t be here arguing with me, you’d be agreeing that warriors need changes to their defensive capabilities.

that’s what this thread is about, or at least what most of the people in this thread agree on. it’s that we don’t WANT to play our warriors like thieves or assassin glass cannons. we want the ability to diversify without gimping ourselves severely.

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Posted by: Sand Beagle.9867

Sand Beagle.9867

actually, i just tried several variations of balanced builds. that’s the problem with warrior. their traits are subpar and do not allow them to build defensively without being SEVERELY outclassed.

please. do not make me post clips of my damage on a dummy showing you the differences. the defense gain is NOT high enough for the dps loss. my dps is divided by 3-4. that’s way too high. i don’t like how you talk as if you know all this and tested it.. because i know for a fact if you really tested it, you wouldn’t be here arguing with me, you’d be agreeing that warriors need changes to their defensive capabilities.

that’s what this thread is about, or at least what most of the people in this thread agree on. it’s that we don’t WANT to play our warriors like thieves or assassin glass cannons. we want the ability to diversify without gimping ourselves severely.

His numbers are all off. Some people just dont understand that warrior’s cant feasibly spec defense. The class itself just doesnt have enough natural defense to make it worth the loss in damage. Horrible heals, terribad condition removal, no defensive utility skills, broken kitten endure pain, etc make it all pointless.

Why would someone want a bunker warrior who cant bunker and cant dps on their team in the first place. The only way a warrior is going to get picked for tpvp is if he brings his 100b and glass bones.

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Posted by: Sand Beagle.9867

Sand Beagle.9867

A) Sustained dmg axe/eviscerate warrior
B) Hammer support/spike calling warrior

I have never seen a successful ballerina warrior with dem dual axes. In the end you do mediocre damage in between periodic 8k eviscerates, and usually dont live long enough to do more than 2 before you get buttpunished for not being 100b.

Hammer warrior is cool and all, but as you are talking teamplay, why is it beneficial to the team to have 1/4 of a real class running around spamming CC’s when he could be doing something more productive.

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Posted by: Meier Link.4769

Meier Link.4769

Warriors suck. The moves are extremely glitchy. Like “Rush” for example. I could be literally 1 inch away from the enemy and when I use the move, the Warrior will Rush literally 3-4 seconds before attacking. Im like, WTF, Im 1 inch away from you. Theres no need to keep Rushing. Also, when I have the enemy targeted during battle and when I use the Rush move, it sometimes will attack another enemy in the parameter and not the enemy I have targeted! Dont even let me get started on how much it misses too. Miss, miss, miss is what you’ll usually get with Rush. Why even give them that skill if it doesnt work?

And the Bull’s rush is another BS skill. Sometimes it knocks them back so far it creates a distance too long for my Thousand Blade to work. And dont tell me to use traps to fix the glitch. The glitch should be fixed so I can substitute the Traps with a buff skill.

I never played Guild Wars 1, but I played WoW for 6 years and my first character was a Warrior and man do Warriors suck in WoW. I had a Shadow Priest that could kill Wariors 3 levels above him. Warriors get beat in almost every scenario in WoW when it came to 1 vs 1., if they dont get beat, its usually a tough fight. I thought things would be different in Guild Wars 2 but the Warrior sucks worse in Guild Wars 2 than they do in WoW.

Im quitting this glitchy game. I wasted 60 freaking bucks on Guild Wars 2. Atleast in WoW, the game was alot more polished and not as glitchy. Im never rolling a Warrior class in any MMORPG ever again.

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Posted by: daydream.2938

daydream.2938

Warriors are limited, no doubt about it.
BUT warriors in 100 b spec DO have great burst and are viable. But perhaps not in the way that people want warriors to be viable.
Additionally, this is the only viable way to play a warrior that i have seen.
I think some other specs are semi-viable like hammer control.

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Posted by: Royce.6835

Royce.6835

Tell me the advantages of the rifle? Do you know the F1-skill? If that was an instant-skill, yes, it would be nice … but it´s only a dream, not reality.

Btw i don´t play a full 100 % glass cannon-build. Atm i try this one

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejgO1wxOCPMRCAkCsyyowIgUKs7uUBxA;TsAA1CnoQygkAJLSOkkItgYQxGEA

Do you think to be the only profession with long activation skill? At the very least people must do something in order to avoid the automatic homing of Killshot, they must dodge or block…they can’t simply walk away from it like against a staff ele, but the fact is that I plan my aoe so that I can hit people with it…even if they need 4s to activate, sometimes tactics is required to win….too many professions with auto-homing skills in this game ( thief-mesmer are the most hateful profession as they’ve got almost everything on auto-homing)…between HS auto-facing/leap-auto homing and blurred frenzy invulnerability/auto-face…it’s sad enough already

I see where you’re coming from my friend, but in this game it is already hard enough to land projectiles. (unless you’re a ranger because their bow shooting speed is so high, it doesnt matter if they miss a few arrows. Also because their arrows can be set to pierce.)

Even if Kill Shot was on instant cast 10k wombo combo damage, people could randomly dodge roll out of it at any second. Not only that, but with the amount of mesmers, necromancers and rangers running around, all with 50+ pets and clones out on the field, there is virtually no way to land any type of big projectile on a player unless it pierces through multiple enemies. And even if you were to land your big Kill Shot, you would have spent so much time carefully setting it up, that the person you’re trying to kill would have already killed 2 of your teammates and taking very little dps from you in general when you could have been up close whacking him with your SUPPOSED 3k axe auto attacks.

Oh wait.. if you get that close with your axe you get roflchilledcrippledslowedfearedkitedaoe’d and then once you die everyone from both teams comes over to your body and takes a massive dump on your chest, just because of how pathetic your attempts were.

Or you could have used killshot on a target with half HP and with now way to reach him in time before he heals himself up to full HP, or you could have crippled if he was trying to flee, or just soft him with bleeding and volley shot before going with the lol 3k axe auto-attack and finish him off before taking too much dmg and retreat again to safe distance…and pls don’t tell me a rifle warrior got an hard time landing projectiles on a single target when called

Uhh, i dont know if you have actually used the rifle, but it is not nearly as glorious as you describe. This game has unimaginably bad hit detection, so if by some miracle you dont get obstructed/missed/invincible, then you still have to roll the dice and see if they will do a random spastic evade, or a timed evade if they were watching you slowly grandpa yourself on to one knee, calmly exhale, draw your gun, look for scratches, polish the barrel, test the wind direction, inhale, line up the sights, lick your lips, count to ten, and then finally fire.

In the end the chance your killshot will land is 1/10, on a good day.

I laughed so kittening hard at the description of kill shot

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Posted by: Leadfoot.9071

Leadfoot.9071

Warriors are limited, no doubt about it.
BUT warriors in 100 b spec DO have great burst and are viable. But perhaps not in the way that people want warriors to be viable.
Additionally, this is the only viable way to play a warrior that i have seen.
I think some other specs are semi-viable like hammer control.

What about the “spartan” build… axe/mace sword/shield with lyssa runes and shouts – (I think the lyssa runes remove conditions on shouts). Is that one not viable? (I’m seriously asking because I don’t know and am curious)

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Posted by: daydream.2938

daydream.2938

Warriors are limited, no doubt about it.
BUT warriors in 100 b spec DO have great burst and are viable. But perhaps not in the way that people want warriors to be viable.
Additionally, this is the only viable way to play a warrior that i have seen.
I think some other specs are semi-viable like hammer control.

What about the “spartan” build… axe/mace sword/shield with lyssa runes and shouts – (I think the lyssa runes remove conditions on shouts). Is that one not viable? (I’m seriously asking because I don’t know and am curious)

I havnt seen anyone running that on top teams, or even in paids as far as i know.

Mostly you see some variety of 100b. Usually axe/sh, gs, or swrd/shld gs. Other than that Ive seen control warriors and thats it. some dude posted a thread here on a longbow spec that he claimed was useful, i havnt tested.

but even if specs other than 100b can cut the muster they are probably sub par to 100b.

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Posted by: Krilce.7864

Krilce.7864

Warriors are limited, no doubt about it.
BUT warriors in 100 b spec DO have great burst and are viable. But perhaps not in the way that people want warriors to be viable.
Additionally, this is the only viable way to play a warrior that i have seen.
I think some other specs are semi-viable like hammer control.

What about the “spartan” build… axe/mace sword/shield with lyssa runes and shouts – (I think the lyssa runes remove conditions on shouts). Is that one not viable? (I’m seriously asking because I don’t know and am curious)

It’s not viable, as you are doing much less damage than you’d be doing with variation of 100b build, but it doesn’t provide much of an advantage either, except for condition removal. Shouts are scaling very badly with healing power, so you won’t be seeing many warriors running them because of that. Maybe only for condition removal, but then again, you could do the same with Signet of Stamina, traited, which also provides a dodge every 6.2 seconds if I remember correctly.

You could go for standard utility bar, being frenzy, BC, and balanced stance(although I prefer using Signet of Stamina over BC, because of path finding issues), so your axe auto attack would hit like a truck with frenzy on, but again, after that, you wouldn’t have anything other than eviscerate to burst your target down. Remember, 100b is a great skill even without frenzy, so having your burst available every 8 secs traited, along with Whirlwind, which can also act like a dodge, and can almost be as good as 100b when your target is positioned by the wall, so there is really no need in replacing your gs with any other weapon set.

I typically like using it along with mace/warhorn, as you don’t need BC on your utility bar, because of mace burst, and constant swiftness with cripple, immobilize and chill removal. These conditions are our biggest bane, so I find using warhorn traited, along with Mobile Strikes from discipline (a must for burst warrior), along with Signet of Stamina and Lyssa Runes really helps against that, and it won’t lower your burst almost at all(well, it will if you prefer using axe instead of mace, which I don’t).

GS/Longbow is a good spec IMO, as it hits like a truck (longbow burst + Arcing Arrow + combo finishers), but if you get focused, and your team is not that organized, you are as good as dead, because you don’t have any form of damage mitigation, other than your dodge and AoE blind on mediocre cooldown, and perhaps your whirlwind. Also, it provides no condition removal, so you better not get into fight against good necro, or anyone that plays a condition spec. Hard to play, but it provides a lot of AoE damage. Try it and see if you like it. You can see Schwahrheit playing this build successfully in paids here: http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009

All in all, we are not that weak, but some of our crucial skills are bugged, along with mostly uninnovative traits, where most are based on %, along with some quite awful Grandmaster traits in certain trees. Buffing Mobile Strikes to remove cripple, chilled and immobilize would definitely solve many problems we have, but we would still be pigeonholed into GS, unless some of our other weapons, like hammer and rifle, get some kind of buff. Hammer is awfully slow, predictable, thus easy to dodge, and rifle just hits like a wet noodle, where burst is mostly impossible to land, unless nobody is watching you, and you are playing against not that organized team. It’s easy to interrupt, easy to dodge, and whatnot.

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Posted by: Nier.2478

Nier.2478

^
While I see builds other than GS actually working, I will never deny that there is no point in picking any other roamer other than Ele. In fact, I’m even willing to say that Thief and Warrior isn’t viable in competitive play unless you have an Ele. Why the hell do we all have to have an Ele just to do work? The meta right now is pathetic.

Even people are being a bunch of dumb preachers and saying “go play an Ele.”

One of three simple things that should happen at Feb patch:

1.) Nerf everything face-roll into Warrior efficiency.
-Includes getting rid of Time Warp, making Blurred Frenzy a 30 second cool down without the trait, and Ele getting reverted to the old Ele where people refused to L2P and only L2P’d after they got over-buffed. This also means revert Ele down-state.
-Realistically speaking, this isn’t going to happen. So lets move on to the next reasonable thing to happen in the next patch.

2.) Find Equilibrium on Ranger or Guardian efficiency.
-Remove Time Warp from tPVP, bring back the old Moa, something like Ele’s sustain cut in half on self and half on others.
-Or don’t even cut Ele’s sustain in half, make Ride The Lightning a target only skill. Hell even if both Ele sustain and mobility gets cut I bet they would still be a decent class.
-Give Warrior a more accessible Building Momentum, Leg Specialist, and buffed Mobile Strikes.

3.) Make Warrior a broken class at full potential.
-Leave the traits as it is.
-Give Warrior Triple Swap at a 10 second base cool down with a 5 second cool down on Fast Hands.

I’m looking at number 2 and 3. The least ANET can do is find something around number 2. If they can’t figure out how to make something work around number 2, then its official to ask “Why didn’t ANET hire a bunch of monkeys to balanced this game instead of incompetent people who didn’t find the decency to actually see the problems within their game?”

EDIT: “One of the three things” instead of “three things that could happen”

twitch.tv/blacktruth009
.

(edited by Nier.2478)

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Posted by: Bsgapollo.5364

Bsgapollo.5364

Aww man warriors so unviable :/

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Level 80 Elementalist, experienced player in pvp, trying out pve for now.