Guild Wars 2

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

they’ll just nerf guardian’s…say signets next patch

You hit the nail right on the head. Let me ad some specific gripes about this patch.

Why on earth did they leave everything unbalanced?

The reason is laziness. It isn’t hard to figure out. They were going to have to change allot of skills. Rather then do that they add small skill tweeks just to say they changed somthing.

What about the lack of variety? Players have been complaining and complain more each patch that variety is dying. People have been calling for this since release. I have figured out why we see no varity changes and the develpers appear to do nothing about it.

The devrlopers Honestly think they are adding variety by adding different amulets. This is very convenient for them in terms of balance and time. Sadly players Do not mainly see this as adding variety

Next patch they will note: Given the lack of variety, we are adding toughness-healing power-vitality amulet. But I jest.

This is exactly what i thought. I m not sure if they have a developer who plays the classes and knows how to use them . Nerfing to death is not balancing

Yeah, really sad how a patch makes the game worse every time

They improve only what they think players should use to win.

The Guardian update was more like “these guys are a nuisance” lets reduce some CD’s.

These balance patches are a joke

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Not surprising given who’s in charge of balance now.

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Killed reaper by nerf to chill skill? Please be patient, reaper was very difficult to kill with both conditions that can drop, corrupt, etc. It was really needed this nerf in reaper, so do not come crying that this class is bad, because it is still good.

Rap Tiger.1257:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Killed reaper by nerf to chill skill? Please be patient, reaper was very difficult to kill with both conditions that can drop, corrupt, etc. It was really needed this nerf in reaper, so do not come crying that this class is bad, because it is still good.

Chill damage to bleed . Is this what you mean as good ? wow

Rap Tiger.1257:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Killed reaper by nerf to chill skill? Please be patient, reaper was very difficult to kill with both conditions that can drop, corrupt, etc. It was really needed this nerf in reaper, so do not come crying that this class is bad, because it is still good.

Yeah Necros were so awesome no one played them in season one. After a truckload of nerfs they are still awesome. Seriously go away the chill damage was the thing that was making them viable. Unless they cram in some more changes before season three its going to be ludicrous the lack of diversity it’s going to be all mesmers, revenant, and elementalists.

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

???

scrapper:

• Slick Shoes can only knock down once per target; got a 5 sec CD reduction to compensate. Everyone agreed this was necessary, i don’t think anyone was ok with how slick shoes worked.
• Healing Turret & Sneak Gyro given 3/4sec cast times. Healing Turret was way too overrewarding for how quick it came out, Sneak Gyro often acted as a free stunbreak; this moderate cast time gives them some counterplay to their sustain (im assuming to make up for the fact their offense wasn’t touched) but realistically very little counterplay thanks to the fact Perfectly Weighted/Final Salvo has gone untouched.
• Rapid Regeneration cut sharply; while any cut this deep seems drastic, it’s a perfect finishing touch of a nerf that finally ties in all the sustain nerfs into a more reasonable defense for scrapper at it’s current offensive strength- which probably no longer needs nerfing due to the aforementioned sustain nerfs. anyways, this is thanks to Inventions being a passive defense traitline extraordinaire that synergized way too well with both Scrapper and Healing Turret.

they also got marginally decent buffs to elixirs; pistols too but i don’t think big enough to warrant use in meta.

anyways the point is, scrapper got nerfed perfectly and if you disagree you’re probably a scrapper that is mad they can actually die like they don’t still have access to celestial now.

• revenant got nerfed perfectly; they needed a slight offensive toning down and they got it.
• guardian got nerfed perfectly; they needed a slight offensive toning down and cc toning down and they got it- they also got considerable CD decreases to Virtues to compensate.
• engineer got nerfed perfectly; it needed a sizable nerf to either offense or sustain. going the sustain nerf route works out better because offense is considerably more skill-promoting.
• druid got handled perfectly (mostly).
• thief got buffed perfectly; slight increase to damage and utility. although im somewhat confused as to why Bountiful Theft got buffed and Trickster didn’t.
  gj anet.

now on the other hand:

• necro got considerably nerfed; maybe too much? it’s too early to tell if it’s fine or not yet imo, haven’t fought any good reapers in duels/wvw/tpvp today. the bad ones do seem to drop really quickly now though… dunno if that’s just unranked being unranked or necro not carrying people anymore.
• mesmer didn’t get touched… and actually got… buffed? don’t really know how to explain this one; they didn’t get a single nerf. not even the widely agreed upon suggestion that Continuum Split no longer affect elites like Moa… oh well at least thief got torment cleanse on Withdraw now.
• Mercenary Amulet is still in the game. This is also related to the above two points as well as removing this could’ve avoided much of the direct nerfing anet felt necessary to hit necro with; it could’ve also justified the various buffs mesmer got somewhat. maybe they’re keeping it in the game to promote their condi agenda- they probably want to see scrapper/beserker/druid pick it up considering the buffs to their respective condi specs this patch.
• elementalist saw no changes to it’s sustain despite getting decent offensive buffs; im a poor judge at this specific profession’s viability because thief does well against both sustain and offensive oriented eles; but the issue seems to be a simple matter of having access to reliable boon rip (for both Protection and Stability) and CC. i think the buff to Sigil of Nullification (you should run this over blood/fire if you dont have boon rip now) was a sign that anet knows about the boon spam problem. tl;dr idk about tempest but it seems vaguely better offensively and should still get nerfs to sustain while continuing to slightly buff their offense till it seems appropriate.

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Wrong, the healthy midway IS to completely gut the elite specs. The only problem is that they didn’t hard nerf mesmer tempest rev etc. as they should have.

Zelda.6325:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Wrong, the healthy midway IS to completely gut the elite specs. The only problem is that they didn’t hard nerf mesmer tempest rev etc. as they should have.

they nerf necro to warrior lvl last season and left the rest almost untouched

Scrapper got nerf too hard cmon anet made em melee so yah engie need sustain. Elixir gun condi cleans and healing shud have been nerf for scrapper not rapid reg. Now scrapper feels like a bad thief who cant do good damage cant stealth well and cant sustain and please still remember scrappers has only 1 weapon people crying scrapper too strong ? cmon scrapper without elixir gun cant handle so well against necros or mesmers
now scrapper has 0 sustain on fights so all longer fights scrapper dies
Nerf elixir not rabip reg. By the way shredder gyro is still bad try add cripple and bleed on it

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

You mention druid and ele sustain where both classes were heavily investing in healing power, the pre-nerf scrapper was basically a buffed up version of celestial d/d ele minus the total lack of healing power investment.

Expecting to have that kind of sustain without bringing any healing power …it’s just ludicrous

Make choices now!,
-You want celestial level of sustain?…Use mender or cleric
-You want dmg?…Use paladin

And at the contrary of scrappers, eles use cleric and do no dmg unless we go paladin with min sustain.
About necros what’s the problem? They’ve lost their gimmick and I see no issue with that, I’m sure that “good” players will adapt; but I’m sure that most necros thought that shutting down people by simply pressing a couple buttons..was actually skill intensive…

yeahhhhh…really no sorry

Eles had to adapt after all..you can do the same!, nothing but nerfs from Sept 2015 till now:

-celestial removed
-protection duration nerfed
-aura duration nerfed
-warhorn nerfed
-fire line gutted and made unusable
-dagger off hand nerfed
-diamond skin nerfed

Conveniently this community shows always a short memory when it comes to nerfs on professions they don’t play, but this is to be expected anyway: bad players will complain as they’ve lost their fotm gimmick while good players will adapt and make new builds for the copy/paste population, which in the meantime will keep spelling doom and gloom on the forum

And for balancing classes should be like paper rock scissor style that all classes has their weakness opponent class
Not that you try balance it so all vs all is good cause look at this now again there are op classes as mesmer and druid

Supreme.3164:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

You mention druid and ele sustain where both classes were heavily investing in healing power, the pre-nerf scrapper was basically a buffed up version of celestial d/d ele minus the total lack of healing power investment.

Expecting to have that kind of sustain without bringing any healing power …it’s just ludicrous

Make choices now!,
-You want celestial level of sustain?…Use mender or cleric
-You want dmg?…Use paladin

And at the contrary of scrappers, eles use cleric and do no dmg unless we go paladin with min sustain.
About necros what’s the problem? They’ve lost their gimmick and I see no issue with that, I’m sure that “good” players will adapt; but I’m sure that most necros thought that shutting down people by simply pressing a couple buttons..was actually skill intensive…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZFok_D_TI

yeahhhhh…really no sorry

Eles had to adapt after all..you can do the same!, nothing but nerfs from Sept 2015 till now:

-celestial removed
-protection duration nerfed
-aura duration nerfed
-warhorn nerfed
-fire line gutted and made unusable
-dagger off hand nerfed
-diamond skin nerfed

Conveniently this community shows always a short memory when it comes to nerfs on professions they don’t play, but this is to be expected anyway: bad players will complain as they’ve lost their fotm gimmick while good players will adapt and make new builds for the copy/paste population, which in the meantime will keep spelling doom and gloom on the forum

I think you missed the point, forum hero.

Im giggling at the fact that people told me the guardian changes is sugested were bad, and yet now are complaining guardian is useless, I guess people are starting to recognize what i was saying the whole time.

The classes are out of balance, there is massive instabilities in it. Changing the system to be cyclical in its nature (fully) and not based on forced specs, will give both the aspect of diversity, and balance to the game.

Who ever is in charge of Class balance, no offense, but you need to reconsider your positions, or step down and give the balance to someone who knows how to actually do it (not just change a value).

This is the weirdest balance patch yet.

Its a bit erarly to say how it will turn out. For me it acually feels like good work. It did´t adress a lot of underperforming things but it seems well thought.
Revenant might be to good. And moa still reseted by continuum split will grief players …

Wait, everything is balanced atm tho. This is a L2P issue.

Just that you guys know:
Neither I play scrapper nor I play reaper. I main druid since season 1 and druids sustain is pathetically overpowered now since reaper got nerfed.

I also didn’t say that nerfs of the HoT specs wouldn’t be justified, I complained about anet being unable to find a healthy midway.

I wasn’t the only one who was hoping for something like this:

- revenant nerfed so you can choose between revenant and thief
-scrapper survivablity adjusted
-reaper passive damage output adjusted
-condition mesmer nerf, buff for power builds
-druids and eles healing-amount adjusted
-warrior back to viability
-dragonhunter back to viablity

Instead of this basically 2 classes droped out of the meta and mesmer/druid/ele/revenant seem as strong as never before.

If someone complains about hot tempratures in Africa, anet will send you with a chance of 90% to the Northpole

sinject.4607:

• guardian got nerfed perfectly; they needed a slight offensive toning down and cc toning down and they got it- they also got considerable CD decreases to Virtues to compensate.

You made some decent points, but you totally missed on this one. I would not call the 20% cut to True Shot “slight.” And the CD reductions on Virtues were to base guardian only. These had no effect on Dragon Hunter.
I liked where they nerfed DH, but they deserved compensation elsewhere and didn’t get it (Mobility buff? Sword, scepter rework? Honor line improvements? Base Health buff?). And no, shout CD reductions don’t count.

What the hell is so difficult for anet to understand about balance?

Each class needs to have the same amount of sustain/damage potential as the other classes.

Instead of bringing necro survivability up, and lowering damage….. anet just nerfed damage. If you nerf necromancers damage without buffing their sustain…. you need to nerf ele sustain without buffing their damage.

You tipped the scale even worse than it was already tipped.

If you want to have sustain-heavy builds in the game… you need to have builds capable of taking them out.

Engineer was the most balanced class in the meta…. and it got kittening nerfed…

What the actual kitten.

Everyone should have been put at the engineer’s level….

I just can’t even wrap my mind around who decided upon implementing these changes.

a 2v1 should never last more than a few moments…. yet last patch thats exactly what was happening….. and now this patch is perpetuating the same kitten…. to an even greater extent.

I’m not even going to play any pvp…. but i can tell you right now that every match will be decided in the first 2 minutes after it begins, based on the initial capture points taken at the very start.

Eles….
Necros were the only thing that could take them out reliably 1v1…. and engineers were excellent at contesting a point forever vs an ele.

and oh would you look at that…. both of those classes got nerfed while broken af ele remains the sustain king.

Someone at anet clearly mains an ele in pvp.

I’m so over this game.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Each class needs to have the same amount of sustain/damage potential as the other classes.

Thats absolutely not how balance works in mmorpg with 5 man teams and 9 classes.
But then again i still remember you from beeing the guy who whined about beeing stuck in ruby season 1 and then posting your build which was the trashiest build i have seen in 3 years of playing and then trying to say its good cause you can 1v1 on it.

@TheBlackLeech.9360

Thats absolutely not how balance works in mmorpg with 5 man teams and 9 classes.
But then again i still remember you from beeing the guy who whined about beeing stuck in ruby season 1 and then posting your build which was the trashiest build i have seen in 3 years of playing and then trying to say its good cause you can 1v1 on it.

http://img04.deviantart.net/0323/i/2013/053/9/5/fatality_logo_by_mixmyphotoshop-d5vt1rn.png

Leeto.1570:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Each class needs to have the same amount of sustain/damage potential as the other classes.

Thats absolutely not how balance works in mmorpg with 5 man teams and 9 classes.
But then again i still remember you from beeing the guy who whined about beeing stuck in ruby season 1 and then posting your build which was the trashiest build i have seen in 3 years of playing and then trying to say its good cause you can 1v1 on it.

Leeto.1570:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Each class needs to have the same amount of sustain/damage potential as the other classes.

Thats absolutely not how balance works in mmorpg with 5 man teams and 9 classes.
But then again i still remember you from beeing the guy who whined about beeing stuck in ruby season 1 and then posting your build which was the trashiest build i have seen in 3 years of playing and then trying to say its good cause you can 1v1 on it.

I’m so pleased that your posterior is still damaged.

I also really am sorry that you didn’t get a chance to try that build for season one.

At any rate…. Of course that’s not how balance works in an mmo. …but GW2 is trying to be different from other mmo’s in that exact aspect.

Anet needs to make up their minds whether “every class is going to have support and damage” like they have said time and time again was their goal.

…or if they are going to keep everyone separate but equal… and give an asymmetrical approach to the whole thing.

Making 2-3 classes complete garbage at any given time and removing their viability doesn’t fall into either category.

…and removing the counters to sustain-heavy builds, without removing the sustain-heavy builds is not something I would describe as balance, either.

…but please elaborate more about how you believe balance works in an mmo… and how that applies in this current meta.

Brokensunday.4098:

Zelda.6325:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Wrong, the healthy midway IS to completely gut the elite specs. The only problem is that they didn’t hard nerf mesmer tempest rev etc. as they should have.

they nerf necro to warrior lvl last season and left the rest almost untouched

Nah m8 they also nerfed scrapper

TheBlackLeech.9360:

-snip-

Engineer was the most balanced class in the meta…. and it got kittening nerfed…

-snip-.

Cutest statement I’ve seen on these forums yet. “Did” you main scrapper?

Scrapper in S2 was the shining example of a class having no downsides; great players could 1v2 all day long, which should have never been the case.

Aside from that, I think the necro nerf may be a bit much, but now all we have to deal with are brain dead condi mesmers who still think that they’re all such fantastic players.

Lol, well… I guess they parred the course.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Scrapper in S2 was the shining example of a class having no downsides; great players could 1v2 all day long, which should have never been the case.

I do not mind the changes, because if so, I’d pull the plug from any online game. I rather (try to) adapt.

But still I want to point out the bolded part. Isn’t this the point of being a “great player”? Isn’t it wrong all the FOTM (and let’s be honest, I really only see friggin mages and reapers hopping around. Barely any warrior or fellow engineers) are bascially winning despite being bad/comparable bad? If “great players” are good, then they know how to utilize their tools properly. If this is a reason to be nerfed, what are your suggestions at sports, e.g. soccer?

“Hey, Player X is so great, he handles 2 guys”
“Fine, so let’s just put 2 guys of his team on the penalty bench because he is so good to make things even”

???

To me ArenaNet really is bouncing from extreme to extreme. I know this feeling under the shower, because I have no mixing faucet there, only a warm and cold one. Each time I open the cold water, I take away warm water, because the hose’s rate of flow is limited. So it’s 80% cold. No matter how much I open up the warm water faucet, the water of the shower will stay cold. When I turn down the cold watever however, we have a double effect: There is less cold water but now also more warm water (because the cold water does not hog the hose to the shower head anymore), and I burn my butt (-30% cold water, +30% warm water = 60% difference despite I just turned down the cold water by 30%).

So in order to have a balanced water temperature I should not just open or close one faucet, but carefully adjust both together to avoid any spikes of temperature extremes in any direction..

This ping-pong effect is currently going on here as far as I understood.

(Another analogy from the Simpsons how to balance the salinity of the water: https://youtu.be/fQVAyJFQiyM?t=35s sorry, German only but that’s how balance should work)^^

IMO I feel like reaper got oversmacked with the nerfs but what ever tbh all they really had to do was add diversity to tempest, nerf double moa, and add something? to make daredevil, and zerker viable. By viable I mean that they can put up a modest fight without going splat in all that AOE nonsense. Becasue I feel those two classes did hold thier own in some 1v1’s. Now all I see are nothing but monkey wrenches here, monkey wrenches there, and some over the top nerfs, and buffs. Core engi was actually okay I just sucked vs reaper. One class. But that’s just my opinion.

That said after four years on this crazy train I will be gw2ing pretty much more casual then ever. Not that’s saying much. This is my stance on gw2 atm. I just feel this current balance patch reallllly left a bad taste in my mouth. Some things touched, and other things that didn’t need to be touched. It’s like they balance with the thought “Lets see how they adapt to this, or handle this.” Like we’re lab rats in some weird experiment. lol

Necro would have been fine to just reduce the damage on the chill dot….not completey change the mechanic on how it was used…not only that unless i go total condi which is kitten dps most of my skills that can chill have the cd increasesed and duration reduced….for those who dont play a necro…imagine a mesmer which portal can only teleport one person…or a elementalist who cant change trees…a ranger with no pet…simply put even a warrior can do some damage in pvp….necro is now just a target with no survivablity and crap dps

Zedek.8932:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Scrapper in S2 was the shining example of a class having no downsides; great players could 1v2 all day long, which should have never been the case.

I do not mind the changes, because if so, I’d pull the plug from any online game. I rather (try to) adapt.

But still I want to point out the bolded part. Isn’t this the point of being a “great player”? Isn’t it wrong all the FOTM (and let’s be honest, I really only see friggin mages and reapers hopping around. Barely any warrior or fellow engineers) are bascially winning despite being bad/comparable bad? If “great players” are good, then they know how to utilize their tools properly. If this is a reason to be nerfed, what are your suggestions at sports, e.g. soccer?

“Hey, Player X is so great, he handles 2 guys”
“Fine, so let’s just put 2 guys of his team on the penalty bench because he is so good to make things even”

???

To me ArenaNet really is bouncing from extreme to extreme. I know this feeling under the shower, because I have no mixing faucet there, only a warm and cold one. Each time I open the cold water, I take away warm water, because the hose’s rate of flow is limited. So it’s 80% cold. No matter how much I open up the warm water faucet, the water of the shower will stay cold. When I turn down the cold watever however, we have a double effect: There is less cold water but now also more warm water (because the cold water does not hog the hose to the shower head anymore), and I burn my butt (-30% cold water, +30% warm water = 60% difference despite I just turned down the cold water by 30%).

So in order to have a balanced water temperature I should not just open or close one faucet, but carefully adjust both together to avoid any spikes of temperature extremes in any direction..

This ping-pong effect is currently going on here as far as I understood.

(Another analogy from the Simpsons how to balance the salinity of the water: https://youtu.be/fQVAyJFQiyM?t=35s sorry, German only but that’s how balance should work)^^

being able to 1v2 because of your spec is NOT the sign of a good player, its the sign of an overtuned build

The 3 rules of game balance.

1.) The current meta is always the worst
2.) The meta from the early days of the game was always the best one
3.) Whatever the patch notes say is the exact opposite of what should have happened.

These rules are true for all multiplayer games.

Crinn.7864:

The 3 rules of game balance.

1.) The current meta is always the worst
2.) The meta from the early days of the game was always the best one
3.) Whatever the patch notes say is the exact opposite of what should have happened.

These rules are true for all multiplayer games.

Rofl, truth bomb right here.

JarrodJames.6845:

Necro would have been fine to just reduce the damage on the chill dot….not completey change the mechanic on how it was used…not only that unless i go total condi which is kitten dps most of my skills that can chill have the cd increasesed and duration reduced….for those who dont play a necro…imagine a mesmer which portal can only teleport one person…or a elementalist who cant change trees…a ranger with no pet…simply put even a warrior can do some damage in pvp….necro is now just a target with no survivablity and crap dps

100% agree for a class that dont have invul blocks evades and deals mediocre power damage to keep nerfing the damage it does is sad but we all know anet hates necros

Darknicrofia.2604:

being able to 1v2 because of your spec is NOT the sign of a good player, its the sign of an overtuned build

An overtuned spec that no one ever cared about outside of pvp. Ever asked yourself why?
Because “being able to 1v2” was the only thing it was good at, that’s why.
Oh, of course it gives it some advantage in a mode where all that matters is staying inside a small circle, often alone. But that’s it. That’s all it did.
No one cared about scrappers outside of pvp before, and now they’re even more useless.
Of course, being the pvp section, i’m kinda sure you don’t care a bit about how the other modes end up.
And i wish i could say the same. But i can’t, because we don’t have a split balance, thus i must see classes balanced toward their performance in defending a small circle from other players.
Given that’s how they balance the game, i wonder why they even bothered designing the scrapper as it is. Giving some good self-sustain to a class and expecting it wouldn’t go well in a mode that’s all about defending a point is rather asinine. But that’s how it is, and that class ends up being neutered for the sake of this single mode.
Well, sorry for the rant. But since this mode has been ruining classes in the rest of the game for its own sake for years, i’m sure you will pardon me.

Manuhell.2759:

Darknicrofia.2604:

being able to 1v2 because of your spec is NOT the sign of a good player, its the sign of an overtuned build

An overtuned spec that no one ever cared about outside of pvp. Ever asked yourself why?
Because “being able to 1v2” was the only thing it was good at, that’s why.
Oh, of course it gives it some advantage in a mode where all that matters is staying inside a small circle, often alone. But that’s it. That’s all it did.
No one cared about scrappers outside of pvp before, and now they’re even more useless.
Of course, being the pvp section, i’m kinda sure you don’t care a bit about how the other modes end up.
And i wish i could say the same. But i can’t, because we don’t have a split balance, thus i must see classes balanced toward their performance in defending a small circle from other players.
Given that’s how they balance the game, i wonder why they even bothered designing the scrapper as it is. Giving some good self-sustain to a class and expecting it wouldn’t go well in a mode that’s all about defending a point is rather asinine. But that’s how it is, and that class ends up being neutered for the sake of this single mode.
Well, sorry for the rant. But since this mode has been ruining classes in the rest of the game for its own sake for years, i’m sure you will pardon me.

Welcome to elementalist profession world, pls enjoy your stay

Agreed op, Balance patches are just like shuffling cards in a deck before a game. If your class gets a good hand, yay! If not, you have to play a style you don’t enjoy. .

Manuhell.2759:

Darknicrofia.2604:

being able to 1v2 because of your spec is NOT the sign of a good player, its the sign of an overtuned build

An overtuned spec that no one ever cared about outside of pvp. Ever asked yourself why?

I’m asking myself why anyone would come to the PVP forum and spout “no one cares outside of pvp”

kakumbien.8047:

Rap Tiger.1257:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Killed reaper by nerf to chill skill? Please be patient, reaper was very difficult to kill with both conditions that can drop, corrupt, etc. It was really needed this nerf in reaper, so do not come crying that this class is bad, because it is still good.

Chill damage to bleed . Is this what you mean as good ? wow

Wow, so what nerf should be given to the reaper? Reduce the chill of damage more? Still nerf was little to Reaper, should make it apply less conditions

Brokensunday.4098:

JarrodJames.6845:

Necro would have been fine to just reduce the damage on the chill dot….not completey change the mechanic on how it was used…not only that unless i go total condi which is kitten dps most of my skills that can chill have the cd increasesed and duration reduced….for those who dont play a necro…imagine a mesmer which portal can only teleport one person…or a elementalist who cant change trees…a ranger with no pet…simply put even a warrior can do some damage in pvp….necro is now just a target with no survivablity and crap dps

100% agree for a class that dont have invul blocks evades and deals mediocre power damage to keep nerfing the damage it does is sad but we all know anet hates necros

I’ve never seen a post as dramatic, anet hate so much reaper that decreased cooldown of some skills and just nerf chill and nothing else.

If you want reaper pressing just two buttons and killing everything, then I recommend you go to learn how to use your fingers to play with class, nerf was still little reaper and we can still see this class within the unranked and possibly RANKED … this cry about reaper is unnecessary when the class is still viable.

These reapers are looking like the current warriors who received buff and take a little nerf and are crying out for more buff …. and looks also play with warrior.

Recalling that reaper applies very conditions also do a lot of damage in the death shroud mode, it is stable, has a green bar that helps you survive and still complain of mobility, puts that worm that reaper / necro has to teleport and ready.

I’m happy engineer got put in line

Darknicrofia.2604:

Zedek.8932:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Scrapper in S2 was the shining example of a class having no downsides; great players could 1v2 all day long, which should have never been the case.

I do not mind the changes, because if so, I’d pull the plug from any online game. I rather (try to) adapt.

But still I want to point out the bolded part. Isn’t this the point of being a “great player”? Isn’t it wrong all the FOTM (and let’s be honest, I really only see friggin mages and reapers hopping around. Barely any warrior or fellow engineers) are bascially winning despite being bad/comparable bad? If “great players” are good, then they know how to utilize their tools properly. If this is a reason to be nerfed, what are your suggestions at sports, e.g. soccer?

“Hey, Player X is so great, he handles 2 guys”
“Fine, so let’s just put 2 guys of his team on the penalty bench because he is so good to make things even”

???

To me ArenaNet really is bouncing from extreme to extreme. I know this feeling under the shower, because I have no mixing faucet there, only a warm and cold one. Each time I open the cold water, I take away warm water, because the hose’s rate of flow is limited. So it’s 80% cold. No matter how much I open up the warm water faucet, the water of the shower will stay cold. When I turn down the cold watever however, we have a double effect: There is less cold water but now also more warm water (because the cold water does not hog the hose to the shower head anymore), and I burn my butt (-30% cold water, +30% warm water = 60% difference despite I just turned down the cold water by 30%).

So in order to have a balanced water temperature I should not just open or close one faucet, but carefully adjust both together to avoid any spikes of temperature extremes in any direction..

This ping-pong effect is currently going on here as far as I understood.

(Another analogy from the Simpsons how to balance the salinity of the water: https://youtu.be/fQVAyJFQiyM?t=35s sorry, German only but that’s how balance should work)^^

being able to 1v2 because of your spec is NOT the sign of a good player, its the sign of an overtuned build

…and by this logic, elementalist should have been nerfed also/instead.

Zelda.6325:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Wrong, the healthy midway IS to completely gut the elite specs. The only problem is that they didn’t hard nerf mesmer tempest rev etc. as they should have.

I find myself agreeing. This patch has some good changes, but chronomancer needs to be looked at in some way and tempest should probably get some dps buffs and sustain nerfs. I am not too familiar with revenant, other than it being a better version of thief and warrior.

Anyways, chronomancer: remove F4 invulnerability shatter when you specialise in Chronomancer, replace it with Continuum Shift. Then make it so Continuum shift doesn’t recharge the cooldown on elites anymore.

Forum bug/ 15 quaggans

Zelda.6325:

dominik.9721:

You don’t balance classes. You either make them op or unviable.

Scrapper and Reaper were too strong and instead of adjusting those classes you make them pretty much unviable.
Druid and Eles sustain seems entirely overpowered now after Reapers are gone, Mesmer didn’t even got touched while Revenant nearly remains the same as before.
Next patch you probably will kill two other classes while making others overpowered.

You are just unable to find a healthy midway.

Wrong, the healthy midway IS to completely gut the elite specs. The only problem is that they didn’t hard nerf mesmer tempest rev etc. as they should have.

I agree. From personal experience of playing ele during S2, any class any class should not be allowed to have the sustain, dps, maneouvrability, cc, condi-cleanse, team buff as ele does. I have been in literally insane situations where I should not have survived, but did.

As for Scrappers, I think the HT nerf was long overdue, but as for other nerfs I feel like we’re going to be saying good-bye to what should be ‘The Scrapper’. Already, I have altered my weapon to Rifle (as a try-out) because I feel Hammer gets dodged too much by ranged and/or more mobile opponents and other than Elixir-Gun, I’ve no option, and you really can feel the squishiness of melee range attacks even with the stuns and options you have with Hammer. At least Slick Shoes helped keep those more maneouvrable classes close to your best attacks. I am still trying different things though and am interested to see what people come up with.

But even after all these changes and whatever changes we encounter in the future, the real crooks is matchmaking. If your team doesn’t have the power to counteract a 5 man crowd control hit, you’ve no chance of gaining/holding any capture point and the same goes for dps/bunker/survivability… yesterday I played a match where 3 of us (solo queue) couldn’t kill an elementalist. And, that has happened to me too but the other way around (i.e. me being the unkillable ele) – it shouldn’t be allowed.

My husband says Anet has a favouritism towards ele… is he right? Can… worms… open?

[edit]

As for Reapers, I don’t know really even now what all the fuss has been about with them. Aside from there being too many of them (and that is a class-stacking issue, which I HATE), I never had any real hard issues with any one Reaper on their own and that can be said for most classes, if not all I would say.