Guild Wars 2

Nix.3152:

gotem.5284:

You should see the OP’s reaction on twitch when he lost to a guardian over and over.

Epic nerd rage.

OE is way better player than that guard. you just a bunch of nonames who is happy because you won a duel with good player. OE is one of the top engis in this game and who is that guy?

Oh man I wish I was a GW2 celebrity. He must be super famous IRL due to his GW2 status.

I enjoyed him freaking out over 100 viewers. You can get 1k+ viewers trolling LoL ranked games as heimer.

hackks.3687:

Oidmetala.8426:

hackks.3687:

seriously? how are people defending this? the player was disabled for 90% of the fight (i.e. he wasn’t actually playing!!!), but some how it’s OK that he won that fight? In a Player versus Player match???

I don’t care what classes were being played. kitten like that has no business being in PvP

How can so many people be this self-centered or outright stupid?

I blame public education…

play spirit ranger and fight a warrior, necro, mesmer, thief, engi or guardian, even a good ele is not so easy to fight.
if you play a class with much passive mechanic, you have at the other side less self controll and the “good” enemy players can handle such things, because ranger passive and pet attacks happen always in same rotation.

most ranger qq is a learn to play problem, because ppls dont create a ranger to learn his skills. i know also much ppls in my friendlist played all professions, but not the ranger.

for example…
when i play my bunker guardian i can survive a spirit ranger like forever.
but when i play a spirit ranger i can kill much guardians.
and why, just because this ppls dont know the ranger class well.

HO LEE FUKKK!!!!!!!

Seriously? Can you Rangers just drop the class-protectionist attitude for one second and just look at the video from an objective PvP standpoint?

Please tell me why you think it’s OK for:

- A player who’s not even participating in a fight due to being disabled for the majority of it to win said fight in PvP?
- A player being capable of dealing enough damage to another class to down them without having to hit a single button?

How is this even regarded as acceptable PvP game development?

Every PvP player should be up in arms about this. Including the Rangers. Rangers above all should be demanding more and better from ANet.

Ehh, Not only did he pop the Ele with a Burn from his bow attack, He told his pets to pop their abilities (all requiring a button press) followed by telling his pet to use Icy Pounce…

So the Ranger actually had to click the buttons to get his pets to do those things..Though I think OE actually ended up killing those said spirits while standing ontop of them which wasn’t very bright either.

Ostrich maybe you got out skilled against the Spirit Ranger, ever though about that? I also saw that you as an Engineer get farmed by a Guardian last night. Are you going to blame his class and spec for that one also?

Sometimes it is better to own up to your mistakes and work on them. It will make you a better player. I didn’t see Lil Homie making excuses.

how can you call that outskill someone tho ? the ranger was CC and had no idea what was happening

gotem.5284:

Welcome to life. You think everything is going to be fair?

I played a hunter in WoW with over 70 keybindings to get gladiator.

My friend played an ele shaman and got gladiator by hitting 3-5 keys.

Deal with it. There will —-> NEVER <—- be balance in ANY game.

If you can’t handle this concept I suggest you quit MMO type games. Go play an FPS game.

To be honest i dont a mind a difference. What i do mind is the absurd gap like we have in GW2 now.

And no the difference isnt as big in WOW. I played wow since beta, been gladiator and whent 2200-2600 with the majority of classes. I know how that game works and what it takes to be succesfull.

Standard dps and burst rotations in wow have a similar a number of abbilities for pretty much all classes in that game. There is a difference between how classes land their burst, CC, ettc which makes a class easy or hard. But even the easiest class (like ele shaman) has a 6 abbilitie rotation it has to go through to do his normal dmg (outside of his CDs).

And there certainly is no class that can spam his autoattack and win that way, like we have in this game. Or are you telling me an ele shaman can spam just his lightening bolt and win?

Well….we had icey touch DKs in S5 (2008) i guess. The sad part is, that this game has multiple classes/specs like that.

The ranger doesn’t dodge anything, gets hit by everything, drops spirits and wins by default of being a ranger, and it’s the Ele’s fault for playing badly.

Locuz.2651:

gotem.5284:

Welcome to life. You think everything is going to be fair?

I played a hunter in WoW with over 70 keybindings to get gladiator.

My friend played an ele shaman and got gladiator by hitting 3-5 keys.

Deal with it. There will —-> NEVER <—- be balance in ANY game.

If you can’t handle this concept I suggest you quit MMO type games. Go play an FPS game.

To be honest i dont a mind a difference. What i do mind is the absurd gap like we have in GW2 now.

And no the difference isnt as big in WOW. I played wow since beta, been gladiator and whent 2200-2600 with the majority of classes. I know how that game works and what it takes to be succesfull.

Standard dps and burst rotations in wow have a similar a number of abbilities for pretty much all classes in that game. There is a difference between how classes land their burst, CC, ettc which makes a class easy or hard. But even the easiest class (like ele shaman) has a 6 abbilitie rotation it has to go through to do his normal dmg (outside of his CDs).

And there certainly is no class that can spam his autoattack and win that way, like we have in this game. Or are you telling me an ele shaman can spam just his lightening bolt and win?

Well….we had icey touch DKs in S5 (2008) i guess. The sad part is, that this game has multiple classes/specs like that.

WOTLK shaman in a nut shell.

Heroism → flame shock → lava burst → CL → dead target

No need to shock interrupt or anything when you could 100-0 any target.

Miz.2761:

The ranger doesn’t dodge anything, gets hit by everything, drops spirits and wins by default of being a ranger, and it’s the Ele’s fault for playing badly.

The ele didn’t dodge the ranger, and had less health then the ranger…So yes..That’s what happens when you don’t dodge and get hit by everything.

Both played badly, only one didn’t spec to have like no health, so he ran out of health faster and just lost the fight.

gotem.5284:

Locuz.2651:

gotem.5284:

Welcome to life. You think everything is going to be fair?

I played a hunter in WoW with over 70 keybindings to get gladiator.

My friend played an ele shaman and got gladiator by hitting 3-5 keys.

Deal with it. There will —-> NEVER <—- be balance in ANY game.

If you can’t handle this concept I suggest you quit MMO type games. Go play an FPS game.

To be honest i dont a mind a difference. What i do mind is the absurd gap like we have in GW2 now.

And no the difference isnt as big in WOW. I played wow since beta, been gladiator and whent 2200-2600 with the majority of classes. I know how that game works and what it takes to be succesfull.

Standard dps and burst rotations in wow have a similar a number of abbilities for pretty much all classes in that game. There is a difference between how classes land their burst, CC, ettc which makes a class easy or hard. But even the easiest class (like ele shaman) has a 6 abbilitie rotation it has to go through to do his normal dmg (outside of his CDs).

And there certainly is no class that can spam his autoattack and win that way, like we have in this game. Or are you telling me an ele shaman can spam just his lightening bolt and win?

Well….we had icey touch DKs in S5 (2008) i guess. The sad part is, that this game has multiple classes/specs like that.

WOTLK shaman in a nut shell.

Heroism -> flame shock -> lava burst -> CL -> dead target

No need to shock interrupt or anything when you could 100-0 any target.

Clearly he didn’t play at the beginning of WoW, when i could take my Warrior with Arcanite Reaper and two shot a Rogue.

Xsorus.2507:

Clearly he didn’t play at the beginning of WoW, when i could take my Warrior with Arcanite Reaper and two shot a Rogue.

I played since day 1….and no you didnt two shot a rogue unless he had no gear. In fact there is a clip with my rogue in it from vanilla facing my old friend who played a warrior with ragnaros hammer. Regular crits where around a 1000, full geared rogues had 4500ish hp in full warlord gear.

So what youre saying is that you critted higher with your craftable weapon than a legendary wielding warrior warrior who used a mix of the warlord set + naxx 60 offpieces?

And that was vanilla, when there was no rated pvp. Nothing like GW2 with its rated pvp and esports aspirations.

gotem.5284:

Welcome to life. You think everything is going to be fair?

I played a hunter in WoW with over 70 keybindings to get gladiator.

My friend played an ele shaman and got gladiator by hitting 3-5 keys.

Deal with it. There will —-> NEVER <—- be balance in ANY game.

If you can’t handle this concept I suggest you quit MMO type games. Go play an FPS game.

This logic is just awesome. You don’t like it → quit. Ha-ha. What a funny guy.

“Welcome to life”, he said. In real life if things which you don’t like happen, it’s much better to do something with them than just “quit”. Generally, in real life, son, you can’t just quit and forget about your problems.

Locuz.2651:

Xsorus.2507:

Clearly he didn’t play at the beginning of WoW, when i could take my Warrior with Arcanite Reaper and two shot a Rogue.

I played since day 1….and no you didnt two shot a rogue unless he had no gear. In fact there is a clip with my rogue in it from vanilla facing my old friend who played a warrior with ragnaros hammer. Regular crits where around a 1000, full geared rogues had 4500ish hp in full warlord gear.

So what youre saying is that you critted higher with your craftable weapon than a legendary wielding warrior warrior who used a mix of the warlord set + naxx 60 offpieces?

And that was vanilla, when there was no rated pvp. Nothing like GW2 with its rated pvp and esports aspirations.

You’re joking right? I was hitting Rogues for 2k+ with Arcanite Reaper at the start of the game with Auto Attack on Crit, That’s not Mortal Strike or Overpower, That’s auto Attack

You clearly did not play WoW at the start, otherwise you’d know this. I was the first Warrior on the server I was on to get Arcanite Reaper, and I was two shotting Rogues left and right because of it. They ended up nerfing Warriors soon afterward because of that. Well before anyone got Ragnaros

mm necros are nearly as bad. playing mesmer he attacked my clones half the time but somehow was able to tank all my bursts without dodging and and his minions/ couple auto attacks that actually hit me killed me. its pretty disheartening losing to a class that can almost afk to kill you.

Nix.3152:

gotem.5284:

You should see the OP’s reaction on twitch when he lost to a guardian over and over.

Epic nerd rage.

OE is way better player than that guard. you just a bunch of nonames who is happy because you won a duel with good player. OE is one of the top engis in this game and who is that guy?

Well if it’s the Guard I think it is. He’s a very good player. One of the best Guards I have ever played. Yeah QE is a decent player, but your acting like he is some unbeatable pro that should never lose.

Also who care if you don’t know who he is. There are lot of great players out there that are just as good or even better then the “pros”.

Xsorus.2507:

You’re joking right? I was hitting Rogues for 2k+ with Arcanite Reaper at the start of the game with Auto Attack on Crit, That’s not Mortal Strike or Overpower, That’s auto Attack

You clearly did not play WoW at the start, otherwise you’d know this. I was the first Warrior on the server I was on to get Arcanite Reaper, and I was two shotting Rogues left and right because of it. They ended up nerfing Warriors soon afterward because of that. Well before anyone got Ragnaros

This is one of our core group members in vanilla. Ive raided naxx 60 and ranked up till rank 13 with him. In this video he uses a both a fury 2 × 1 hander spec and a 2 handed spec with rags hammer. Skip to the parts with the 2 hander and check what the real numbers of a warrior who has BiS gear where.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightbringer/Ar%C3%A8thusa/

My old locks armoury. I will activate it with the 7 days free time for you to see it really is my character.

My guildmates WoW classic video. One of the most viewed of all time for classic PvP… this one only has 100k+ but the original had a ton more this is like a 5th copy of it.

gotem.5284:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZBX-kckJA

My guildmates WoW classic video. One of the most viewed of all time for classic PvP… this one only has 100k+ but the original had a ton more this is like a 5th copy of it.

Ofc it was. And even if it was…..you dont seem to see that all of his normal crits where 1000ish. Whatever came above it was due to berzerker or executes (executes crits dont matter since youre at 20% hp anyway).

Locuz.2651:

gotem.5284:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZBX-kckJA

My guildmates WoW classic video. One of the most viewed of all time for classic PvP… this one only has 100k+ but the original had a ton more this is like a 5th copy of it.

Ofc it was. And even if it was…..you dont seem to see that all of his normal crits where 1000ish. Whatever came above it was due to berzerker or executes (executes crits dont matter since youre at 20% hp anyway).

I honestly don’t care if you believe me or not. I find your opinion worthless anyway.

Locuz.2651:

Xsorus.2507:

You’re joking right? I was hitting Rogues for 2k+ with Arcanite Reaper at the start of the game with Auto Attack on Crit, That’s not Mortal Strike or Overpower, That’s auto Attack

You clearly did not play WoW at the start, otherwise you’d know this. I was the first Warrior on the server I was on to get Arcanite Reaper, and I was two shotting Rogues left and right because of it. They ended up nerfing Warriors soon afterward because of that. Well before anyone got Ragnaros

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBGrkkDVEZc

This is one of our core group members in vanilla. Ive raided naxx 60 and ranked up till rank 13 with him. In this video he uses a both a fury 2 × 1 hander spec and a 2 handed spec with rags hammer. Skip to the parts with the 2 hander and check what the real numbers of a warrior who has BiS gear where.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightbringer/Ar%C3%A8thusa/

My old locks armoury. I will activate it with the 7 days free time for you to see it really is my character.

You do know that Mortal Strike was nerfed before Ragnoras was added to the game right?

Trying to remember if they nerfed the Auto Attacking Scaling with it as well, But you ask any warrior who had arcanite reaper with the old 200% Mortal Strike what there damage was..Hell ask your guildie if he played back then.

Mortal Strike changed to deal weapon damage + a flat amount (85, 110, 135, 160) instead of percentage-based damage. Additional ranks available on Warrior trainers.

That was done in 1.2, Honor wasn’t even added till 1.4 to give you an idea.

what has this thread become

Mods are asleep Post WoW Pix

I find talk of vanilla WoW more worthy of reading then anything about conquest mode.

You’d figure by now Xom would realize that nobody in this forum gives a kitten what he/she thinks

google.3709:

umm kinda surprised how many players believe doing 12k+ dmg on 3 attacks and 100-0 another player while being completely CC’ed is normal

Even more surprised how self centered some players are, the world might rotate around you at home but this is the internet, no one gives a kitten

I for one found it odd.

I guess it is working as intended.

+1 to OE

Players should be punished hard for being outplayed.

Obviously you guys have never met the Thieves that stealth on nano pads and scorpion wire you into it while your stun breaks are on CD

Way faster death than this.

The harder a profession is to play, the more mistakes will be made and the harder will those mistakes punish the player. And if the difficulty gap between two professions is too big, the player using the harder profession will need to play like a machine to beat the player using the easier profession. But players are humans, they are not machines.

In this thread, some players are defending what they see from a pve perspective. “You should have evaded this AI attack. You should have killed that AI pet. You should have stayed at range from the other AI pet”. This would be a fine challenge if this was pve. You could simple say to the topic creator: “Learn with your mistakes. Try to do some things differently next time. Etc. Etc.”

But this is pvp. And in pvp, we must judge both sides of the coin. We must take a look at both players. And if some people can claim that the elementalist play was poor, then I wonder, what can be said about the extreme basic-level of play by the ranger? A ranger that used three skills. A ranger that was cc’d the whole time. A ranger that turned the back to the fight half-way to come back to the point. What did the ranger do to win the fight? More so, what did the ranger do to win the fight so easily?

The effort put by the ranger player was minimal, while the elementalist player had to go through hell to deal damage or to survive. This is especially worse within the context of GW2’s combat pace, that is way too fast to the point that it’s almost impossible to read and react strategically to every single boon icon/ pet/ skill used in a slight second within a cluttered screen of flashy effects, especially for an elementalist that must react as fast as possible to not die. The ratio between combat’s pacing and information output in GW2 is poorly-balanced, because it overloads the screen with information while it demands the players to act as fast as possible. Only the professions that have some breathing room, like the stealth or pet classes, and maybe some tank-ish ranged builds as well, can have more time to analyze the situation from safety, as they’ll be harder to target and don’t have the massive amounts of AI pressuring them as often.

But what’s truly bad is how the consequences of the match were completely opposite to the level of skill play. The elementalist player had to work hard and was constantly under pressure, but because some mistakes were made, it died very easily. The ranger player pratically didn’t play at all, was mostly disabled, and had an easy victory.

As you can see, this is not a subtle difference. It’s a complete reversal of an ideal skill/ reward ratio. And for that reason, this problem won’t be fixed with subtle changes. Anet needs to seriously consider how to tone down the pace of combat and information overload, which it seems like they’re already aware of, but they must also seriously revamp how AI works in PvP environments. The AI wouldn’t be such a big problem if most of its effectiveness was under active skill input.

But this comes from a larger problem with the entire game. Anet focused too much on quantity over quality, and was left without time to make sure every single thing was as polished as possible. In this specific case, Anet tried to make profession’s mechanics as distinct from each other as possible, and it left many of them with serious design issues. This doesn’t only applies to ranger’s pets, but to thieves’ stealth and initiative, mesmer’s shattering, etc. If all the professions had a build-up mechanic like the warrior, or if all professions had a stance-dancing mechanic like the elementalist, or if all the profession had thieves’ initiative system + cooldowns, etc, etc, the game as a whole would be far more balanced and far easier to balance, especially considering how tight Anet’s schedules and resources are. And no, it wouldn’t make classes any less unique: just look at any other games. Anet has focused on too much quantity without having the human resources to do it smoothly. They were too ambitious, and are now taking the consequences out of it. Not only for this specific situation, but for the game as whole.

Exactly what Diogosilva stated. This is probably one of the best posts ive read on this forum. It should be wrapped in an enveloppe and delivered to the guys who are the deicisionmakers in GW2s “pvp team”.

Getting this fixed should be the top priority. Above anything else.

DiogoSilva.7089:

The effort put by the ranger player was minimal, while the elementalist player had to go through hell to deal damage or to survive.
[…]
But what’s truly bad is how the consequences of the match were completely opposite to the level of skill play. The elementalist player had to work hard and was constantly under pressure, but because some mistakes were made, it died very easily. The ranger player pratically didn’t play at all, was mostly disabled, and had an easy victory.

This is ridiculous. This video is just ONE (bad) example of one fight (regardless of the skill of the players involved, everyone makes mistakes – more so if you are playing a difficult class, as you said yourself).

You could do exactly the same (silly) video where an Ele (who doesn’t even need to play, actually) kills a ranger by auto-casting Lava Tomb when the ele dies.
Because the ranger stands right in the middle of it and takes the full impact.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lava_Tomb
“Look Ele is so OP – video shows I ranger died after I killed him… OMG!11!!! He didn’t even press a key!”.
Here is a template for people who want to do the same type of videos:
“Look [INSERT CLASS HERE] is OP because I have a crappy video of me playing [INSERT CLASS HERE] and he pulled that trick that will work once in a million times!”

If the Ele had kept a dodge or hadn’t run in the spirit at the end, he would have won that fight. During the fight, on the other hand, the Ranger was CCd for 3s and burst to death – with no possibility of reacting, he had very little chance to win that encounter.

It’s not a big stretch to imagine the outcome of that fight could easily be in the Ele’s favour – without changing anything to the ele and ranger builds shown in the video.

I bet that if we were to redo the same fight again and again between those two players, ele would win 80% of the fights.
So, “skilled ele who made a mistake” would win 80% of the time against “unskilled ranger”. This is working as intended.
(Oh, and if you don’t understand why an “unskilled” player should be able to win fights once in a million times by using some weird tricks, then please watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w , at 2 min
)
This video proves nothing about anything. Just that you can have some “odd fights” using the existing mechanics, sometimes.
(on the other hand if someone dies to a CCd ranger consistently, they are probably a bad player and deserved to die in the first place)

Just pointing out one more time that people who scream at OP’d-ness or balance issues are using the wrong material to do this. I think everyone agrees that there are balance issues, and that ele is difficult to play, but this particular video is just not the proof of this.

TL;DR:
Just copy and paste this:
Nerf “Nature Vengeance”, this skill is OP.

Flamfloz.6732:

DiogoSilva.7089:

The effort put by the ranger player was minimal, while the elementalist player had to go through hell to deal damage or to survive.
[…]
But what’s truly bad is how the consequences of the match were completely opposite to the level of skill play. The elementalist player had to work hard and was constantly under pressure, but because some mistakes were made, it died very easily. The ranger player pratically didn’t play at all, was mostly disabled, and had an easy victory.

This is ridiculous. This video is just ONE (bad) example of one fight (regardless of the skill of the players involved, everyone makes mistakes – more so if you are playing a difficult class, as you said yourself).

You could do exactly the same (silly) video where an Ele (who doesn’t even need to play, actually) kills a ranger by auto-casting Lava Tomb when the ele dies.
Because the ranger stands right in the middle of it and takes the full impact.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lava_Tomb
“Look Ele is so OP – video shows I ranger died after I killed him… OMG!11!!! He didn’t even press a key!”.
Here is a template for people who want to do the same type of videos:
“Look [INSERT CLASS HERE] is OP because I have a crappy video of me playing [INSERT CLASS HERE] and he pulled that trick that will work once in a million times!”

If the Ele had kept a dodge or hadn’t run in the spirit at the end, he would have won that fight. During the fight, on the other hand, the Ranger was CCd for 3s and burst to death – with no possibility of reacting, he had very little chance to win that encounter.

It’s not a big stretch to imagine the outcome of that fight could easily be in the Ele’s favour – without changing anything to the ele and ranger builds shown in the video.

I bet that if we were to redo the same fight again and again between those two players, ele would win 80% of the fights.
So, “skilled ele who made a mistake” would win 80% of the time against “unskilled ranger”. This is working as intended.
(Oh, and if you don’t understand why an “unskilled” player should be able to win fights once in a million times by using some weird tricks, then please watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w , at 2 min
)
This video proves nothing about anything. Just that you can have some “odd fights” using the existing mechanics, sometimes.
(on the other hand if someone dies to a CCd ranger consistently, they are probably a bad player and deserved to die in the first place)

Just pointing out one more time that people who scream at OP’d-ness or balance issues are using the wrong material to do this. I think everyone agrees that there are balance issues, and that ele is difficult to play, but this particular video is just not the proof of this.

TL;DR:
Just copy and paste this:
Nerf “Nature Vengeance”, this skill is OP.

Do you know the difference between downing your opponent while disabled (ranger’s pet and dead spirit proc), and downing your opponent after he has already downed you because you’re so stupid to STEP into the fire?

And, seriously, Lava Tomb….

Shar.3402:

Do you know the difference between downing your opponent while disabled (ranger’s pet and dead spirit proc), and downing your opponent after he has already downed you because you’re so stupid to STEP into the fire?

And, seriously, Lava Tomb….

No I don’t know the difference, I’m a bad player and all that.
Care to explain what the difference is, then?

If you cannot explain or do not care to, then you can always copy and paste this:
“Nerf “Nature Vengeance”, this skill is OP.”
Isn’t it what you are complaining about?
(I should add that I’ve never been killed by a CCd ranger, I must be one of these “top” player I keep hearing about)

Why is this thread still alive?

This is just pure chance. The ele put himself into a bad position and died.

Shar.3402:

“Look Ele is so OP – video shows I ranger died after I killed him… OMG!11!!! He didn’t even press a key!”.

Are you saying that downed ele have a chances against downed ranger? Let’s talk about downed states now then.
Only rangers have access to their class mechanics during downed state. So i think that this ability should be removed.

Oidmetala.8426:

well, keep whining against ranger.

Calm down there ranger. I know its in your nature to automatically start attacking (get it?) but this isnt just a whine vs ranger. Its an observation about the state of all classes and the risk vs reward of these.

GankSinatra.2653:

Its an observation about the state of all classes and the risk vs reward of these.

I disagree.

This is a thread about exaggerating how OP spirit rangers are based on a one in a million chance scenario.