Guild Wars 2

I mean, we don’t even need guard anymore.

From a “proffs representation” point this should be good, point is we needed guard for a reason: SUPPORT

Now some professions are so broken you don’t even need that support.

Self sustain-sustain-sustain-sustain and even more sustain, just put X eles and you won’t kill anything anymore.

How could u do this to your own game, NERF EVERYTHING PLS.

I’m not happy with CM’s comp either, but Guardian being not mandatory can be only a good thing. This game adviced itself as a game with no hard roles.

We haven’t seen many Rangers or Necros either. Still worse than over 95% of pvp scene running mandatory bunker guard, huh ?

Yay! Guild Whine 2!

Cheesemode comp is just a slight upgrade over Apex’s comp (replace guardian with d/d ele, replace ranger with celes. engie). We have already seen how to beat it when a PUG version of Drenched in Baby Oil stomped them: Bring the burst and focus fire. All of the comps that CM brings are great in sustained fights and have good support (especially the eles). They are all very susceptible to focus fire:

http://www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports/c/4644946

BlackBeard.2873:

Cheesemode comp is just a slight upgrade over Apex’s comp (replace guardian with d/d ele, replace ranger with celes. engie). We have already seen how to beat it when a PUG version of Drenched in Baby Oil stomped them: Bring the burst and focus fire. All of the comps that CM brings are great in sustained fights and have good support (especially the eles). They are all very susceptible to focus fire:

http://www.twitch.tv/digitalprosports/c/4644946

CM new comp has NEVER lost till they tried and trained it.

Not even against burst teams run in EU.

And pls don’t let me start again the non elegant “EU>NA” argument that everyone hates to hear over and over again.

Lol someone runs a comp moderately different and succeeds with it, and immediately the gw2 community says, “It’s unbeatable. Plz Nerf.”

Chicago Jack.5647:

Someone runs a comp moderately different and succeeds with it, and immediately the gw2 community says, “It’s unbeatable. Plz Nerf.”

I’m not saying it’s unbeatable, neither i’m asking to nerf their comp.

What i’m saying is that we ‘re at the point we don’t even need boons, peel or anything.

All we need are healbots and panzer professions dealing tons of damage thx to sigils and runes and mightstacking.

Certain professions have so much self sustain that you can just throw some heal here and there and you really don’t need anything else.

This is silly, the power creep is so ridicolous.

Do you think ele is op? Just wait for GS warrior after the update.

Thangorodrim.2748:

Do you think ele is op? Just wait for GS warrior after the update.

dat aoe execute.

Guardian being mandatory is ridiculous, it shouldn’t be. The reason CM’s comp is working is because Warriors are so strong right now. They could easily swap their engi for another warrior and still be doing great.
I like that there are different comps that work, but it shouldn’t be because of an overpowered class.

There are two separate issues here – one is CM’s comp and the other is the simultaneous sustain and damage achieved by some specs.

The first issue is pure L2P and will correct itself once the scene develops. When a comp with zero burst and mediocre mobility wins a game of conquest, you know the opposition just sucks. Once teams actually get good with coordinating their burst, these CM/APEX-type comps will go the way of the dodo. The competitive scene has just regressed to the point where there’s currently maybe one or two teams in the entire game that can achieve the level of coordination required. And that’s on a good day when all stars align. While truly sad, it’s a passing thing now that money is on the line and teams actually have incentive to improve, instead of trying to cover up their mediocre coordination by endless counter comping. We might be stuck with watching CM’esque comps sustaining themselves to victory for a few months, but I have zero doubt that the scene will evolve past that in due time.

The second issue revolves around sustainy specs like hambow or celestial DD ele achieving silly damage though runes, sigils and might stacking. I’m sure ANet will look into it at some point, once people whine loudly enough that it drowns out the sound of the gem store cash register.

I watched for a bit, it really does seem like build wars, not guild wars, at the moment.

Sustain is clearly way too high for D/D eles and Warriors at the moment, it’s a joke.

Lol, CM winning had a lot of factors go their way, dcs on 55hp monks being one of them.

We can’t really say what would have happened if there were no DCs in any game.

Tanky comps can be really good but, they can be beaten. Way too many factors to just say “They won because, tanky comp.” I think that’s a very ignorant statement.

the dc didn’t affect the outcome of the match, I think anybody could see that.

TrOtskY.5927:

the dc didn’t affect the outcome of the match, I think anybody could see that.

Don’t ever count a team out until the last 20 points. And even then many things can happen in that space of time but hey, dont mind me. Let’s all carry on ragging on bunker comps.

Ok i think most people here don’t really understand the reasoning behind OP.

In the past if you wanted good duelist professions able to keep the point you were forced to pick certain professions (engi, ranger, ele) that sucked on other aspects (teamfight presence for engi and ranger, weakness to focus fire for ele).

And that’s why you needed the guard and fast dps dealing proffs to support them.

Right now you don’t have to make choices, even those classes ( aside ranger) can build so defensively while dishing WAY MORE DAMAGE THAN BEFORE that not only you don’t need dps or guard anymore, but you have even another profession (warrior) NOT ONLY able to do all of this at once but EVEN WITH MORE POINT PRESENCE.

Long story short, the game is so full of gamebreaking stuff that coordination is no longer needed, you just need to rotate to everypoint and keep opponents busy in neverending 1vs1s that the squishiest will lose.

This makes no sense.

And no , mesmer/thief is not the solution since mes will get rekt as soon as any of these professions look grimly at him in any teamfight, and at the first mismovement you’ll get 2-3 capped and snowballed, reason why even misha had to drop mesmer for the tournament.

This may not be the most boring meta ever, but it’s indeed the most broken one and the fact that guard is no longer needed it’s the clear example.

Mrbig.8019:

Ok i think most people here don’t really understand the reasoning behind OP.

In the past if you wanted good duelist professions able to keep the point you were forced to pick certain professions (engi, ranger, ele) that sucked on other aspects (teamfight presence for engi and ranger, weakness to focus fire for ele).

And that’s why you needed the guard and fast dps dealing proffs to support them.

Right now you don’t have to make choices, even those classes ( aside ranger) can build so defensively while dishing WAY MORE DAMAGE THAN BEFORE that not only you don’t need dps or guard anymore, but you have even another profession (warrior) NOT ONLY able to do all of this at once but EVEN WITH MORE POINT PRESENCE.

Long story short, the game is so full of gamebreaking stuff that coordination is no longer needed, you just need to rotate to everypoint and keep opponents busy in neverending 1vs1s that the squishiest will lose.

This makes no sense.

And no , mesmer/thief is not the solution since mes will get rekt as soon as any of these professions look grimly at him in any teamfight, and at the first mismovement you’ll get 2-3 capped and snowballed, reason why even misha had to drop mesmer for the tournament.

This may not be the most boring meta ever, but it’s indeed the most broken one and the fact that guard is no longer needed it’s the clear example.

Agree. The only difference between 55hp and CM is that 55hp has to actually rotate the correct classes, while CM has not to (see Temple, Bunker Guard on bottom-buff).

Also the fact that Guard is not needed anymore as a full-support shows clearly that classes/builds these days are way too independent. Means lesser coordination, lesser teamplay.

Rym.1469:

I’m not happy with CM’s comp either, but Guardian being not mandatory can be only a good thing. This game adviced itself as a game with no hard roles.

We haven’t seen many Rangers or Necros either. Still worse than over 95% of pvp scene running mandatory bunker guard, huh ?

Staff ele makes necro not viable. Its pretty much that simple. I have tried and vs staff eles (even beginners) in any sort of fight and a necro is useless. It is the hardest counter in the game.

As for what is OP. OP is something which has high damage and high sustain. This is pretty obvious. They are nerfing warrior to help with this but without nerfing ele at the same time there is not much going to change. Ele, at least, is marginally harder to play. Although all the best ele’s I know HATE playing d/d or staff because it is so easy and boring (according to them not me)

Wow, so the first time ever that a guardian isn’t on a top team and everyone starts complaining. Guardian is the ONLY class that has been a requirement for the first two years of this game.

All bunkers need to be scaled down.

Are we going to factor in the NA tournament into this conversation or what?

Dirame.8521:

Are we going to factor in the NA tournament into this conversation or are we going to continue on this charade?

Considering it was a staff ele and fresh air ele on each team, it may or may not be worth discussing

style.6173:

Wow, so the first time ever that a guardian isn’t on a top team and everyone starts complaining. Guardian is the ONLY class that has been a requirement for the first two years of this game.

All bunkers need to be scaled down.

I agree, real problem is the guardian no the other classes (speaking about support/bunker)

If a class has ALWAYS a spot in the team since 2 years is because is broken.

People don’t complain a lot about bunker guardian because it’s a defensive role, only for this reason.

If it was that over-powered you would run two bunker guardians.

Just because a class fills a niche that others do not, doesn’t mean it’s OP.

It got me thinking too.

There are different aspects to this whole discussion.

Mrbig.8019:

Now some professions are so broken you don’t even need that support.

Let’s break that down:
1.) There should never be a must-have profession in the tpvp roster.
2.) Every profession should be a viable choice.

I think so far can everyone agree. The problem is, that most of the time, there will be a best choice (or people are thinking, that there is only one choice, and therefore they will generate the must-have choice themselves), and therefore forcing other options out of the meta game.
I can understand the support guardians, that are afraid, that this will happen to them, we have already seen that f.e. happen to spirit ranger.

Now let’s get to the real question of the thread:

3.) Should the team roster consist of specific roles (support, dps), or are fully ‘tanky’ professions (as seen in the tol) ok too?

This means, should the shout/support guardian be only replaceable with other support builds that also have to an amulet with +heal as a primary stat, OR is it ok, that some professions can play such a self sustaining build, that they don’t need a support on their side any more?

What about the fact that there’s diversity in how teams can win, if coordinated properly? That’s a good thing.

Teams can 1) run with a bunker guardian and be successful (TM/TCG, to some degree 55), or 2) run with a strong hybrid sustain focus and be successful.

I don’t disagree some of the OP’s sentiments are valid and present a potential issue, but I’m looking at this more from a diversity perspective.

Add the upcoming feature pack and the landscape will evolve further. I know it’s salt in the wound at this point, but we also have no idea what the guardian/necro changes will be, which could (or not) vault their position in comps further.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The ToL finals made Vee Wee think that the team with the most hambows wins!

Wahoo! Bye frands!