Guild Wars 2

The game is completely unplayable between mallyx/shiro and condi reaper the amount of condis spammed on you is outrageous at this point I suggest the dev to introduce more traits like diamond skin…or on a more serious note I think it’s be about time for Jon Peters to honour his promise from months ago where he recognized that:

@Jon Peters

Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:
1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered builds
We won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.
Thanks for your patience,
Jon

So..when conditions will be looked at? I mean you dev are more than happy to nerf burst dmg…but condi burst is fine? Burst coming from glassy spec that can die if you cough in their directions it’s not fine..but tanky specs that deal absurd amount of dmg with conditions are fine? Weren’t conditions supposed to be an attrition mechanic than from where the rev and reaper come from?

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Jon Peters 5signet yolo left AN some time ago. Condi rep is not really troublesome tho (i deal with em just fine with no cleanse) but condi reaper is by far the most braindead kitten ever on par with old turret engi

Burtnik.5218:

Jon Peters 5signet yolo left AN some time ago. Condi rep is not really troublesome tho (i deal with em just fine with no cleanse) but condi reaper is by far the most braindead kitten ever on par with old turret engi

So condi reaper just stands there while 90% of their damage is done passively without any input on the reapers part? You know 40% of carrion reapers dps is physical, right?

Is this because people think chill damage is too powerful? That might be it and reapers do fart it out with pretty much an effortless 100% up time. Without chill DAMAGE reapers probably wouldn’t be AS effective but they’d still be pretty powerful.

Idk, my opinion is that it’s chill damage. But saying that reaper is braindead similar to full turret engi isn’t a correct comparison.

Burtnik.5218:

Jon Peters 5signet yolo left AN some time ago. Condi rep is not really troublesome tho (i deal with em just fine with no cleanse) but condi reaper is by far the most braindead kitten ever on par with old turret engi

There are many builds that counter condi reaper. It’s also one of the least “gimmicky” builds you can play.

Keep in mind that reapers start out with no lifeforce. Even worse is they have no reliable escape/disengage so they are habitually targeted to be put down first.

And plus a lot of reapers main necromancer. I can’t say the same thing about turreteers with engies.

Learn to play lmao…

I just LOVE how you quote an ancient dinosaur quote and are all like “it’s about time Jon honours his promise” as if he said that 2 days ago. Until recently pure condi builds weren’t even in the meta. When was the last time a pure condi build was the top in the meta?
I love people who repeatedly ram their head against a wall and scream OP.

Condi builds are already weak as hell in a group fight fighting shouters.

Burtnik.5218:

Jon Peters 5signet yolo left AN some time ago. Condi rep is not really troublesome tho (i deal with em just fine with no cleanse) but condi reaper is by far the most braindead kitten ever on par with old turret engi

Lol, really they let go the only guy that communicated at all…

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

maybe
toughness can reduce condition damage
vitality can reduce condition duration

Jon Peters left? Well that explains a lot.

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Solid troll post.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Then what counters high Toughness?

Israel.7056:

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Solid troll post.

Except it isn’t a troll post. Any time the game changes functionally where the typical player is introduced to play styles they aren’t used to combatting everyone flips their kitten. It is a L2P issue and everyone will eventually get used to having to think about more aspects of the game.

ragnarokda.1805:

Israel.7056:

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Solid troll post.

Except it isn’t a troll post. Any time the game changes functionally where the typical player is introduced to play styles they aren’t used to combatting everyone flips their kitten. It is a L2P issue and everyone will eventually get used to having to think about more aspects of the game.

Supreme has been on an anti-condition crusade for a long time now. This isn’t a case of him “getting used to it”, he just doesn’t want to slot condi cleanse. Or learn which hits are the big ones from a condi build. The later of which would solve the vast majority of problems people have with condi builds.

ragnarokda.1805:

Israel.7056:

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Solid troll post.

Except it isn’t a troll post. Any time the game changes functionally where the typical player is introduced to play styles they aren’t used to combatting everyone flips their kitten. It is a L2P issue and everyone will eventually get used to having to think about more aspects of the game.

Which aspects of the game?

accept the limitations of your build

accept the limitations of solo que teams

Israel.7056:

ragnarokda.1805:

Israel.7056:

Saiyan.1704:

I’ll summarize what OP is trying to say

• Game is hard when i’m on a bad, randomized, team.
• SoloQ is full of builds that are unviable in Tournaments, yet, I’m not good enough to beat them.
• I don’t like a certaint build type, so lets just remove it from the game.

Yea, I don’t like bunker sustain classes but you don’t see me making a QQ post about it.

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

It’s not an issue so why do you need more help against it?

Solid troll post.

Except it isn’t a troll post. Any time the game changes functionally where the typical player is introduced to play styles they aren’t used to combatting everyone flips their kitten. It is a L2P issue and everyone will eventually get used to having to think about more aspects of the game.

Which aspects of the game?

The threat level of builds that focus on conditions as a primary source of damage instead the golden age where you could basically ignore condi in general and be alright doing so.

When I don’t make room in my build to at least soft counter the threat of condi builds then I should reasonably expect that if I run into one I will likely die without team support.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Then what counters high Toughness?

CC and focused fire?
Especially since we lack with a) high toughness and b) high vitality amulet and c) high healing power. I doubt just high toughness amulets would become super viable because of such change (condis affected by toughness) and even if so, we would get more variety.

Morwath.9817:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Then what counters high Toughness?

CC and focused fire?
Especially since we lack high toughness and high vitality amulet, with exception of trollish Sentinel, which has no healing power or serious damage source.

no. CC does not counter armour, neither does power based damage. power based damage is actually countered by armour. the counter to toughness is obviously conditions, as they ignore armour.

also, you forgot about soldiers amulet.

choovanski.5462:

Morwath.9817:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Then what counters high Toughness?

CC and focused fire?
Especially since we lack high toughness and high vitality amulet, with exception of trollish Sentinel, which has no healing power or serious damage source.

no. CC does not counter armour, neither does power based damage. power based damage is actually countered by armour. the counter to toughness is obviously conditions, as they ignore armour.

also, you forgot about soldiers amulet.

Soldier and Sentinel got basicaly same stats… they are both rarely played in competitive matches.

And Power damage isn’t countered by Toughness at all, its just a bit less effective but not countered… you still can focus fire on high toughness targets with some co-ordinated CCs and they are melted in seconds.

ragnarokda.1805:

The threat level of builds that focus on conditions as a primary source of damage instead the golden age where you could basically ignore condi in general and be alright doing so.

When I don’t make room in my build to at least soft counter the threat of condi builds then I should reasonably expect that if I run into one I will likely die without team support.

There really aren’t that many builds that have access to the number of clears or transfers or resistance necessary to even attempt to deal with the sheer number of conditions being pumped out by a lot of the current “meta” builds. And that’s just when they’re by themselves.

I really don’t think this is just a “l2p issue” but I also know no one ever takes anything seriously until a high level team designs a comp around it.

Morwath.9817:

choovanski.5462:

Morwath.9817:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

All we need is toughness reducing condi damage.

Then what counters high Toughness?

CC and focused fire?
Especially since we lack high toughness and high vitality amulet, with exception of trollish Sentinel, which has no healing power or serious damage source.

no. CC does not counter armour, neither does power based damage. power based damage is actually countered by armour. the counter to toughness is obviously conditions, as they ignore armour.

also, you forgot about soldiers amulet.

Soldier and Sentinel got basicaly same stats… they are both rarely played in competitive matches.

And Power damage isn’t countered by Toughness at all, its just a bit less effective but not countered… you still can focus fire on high toughness targets with some co-ordinated CCs and they are melted in seconds.

soldier amulet gets loads of play. soldiers reaper and engineer are still very common. both builds are significantly more tanky than that it marauders counterparts, without having that much more health. you notice high armour.

toughness does more than you think. obviously everyone will die to focus fire and stunlock, but in 2v2, 1v1 etc it can make a good deal of difference.

Jon Peters left? That explains why the game is so bad now.

choovanski.5462:

soldier amulet gets loads of play. soldiers reaper and engineer are still very common. both builds are significantly more tanky than that it marauders counterparts, without having that much more health. you notice high armour.

toughness does more than you think. obviously everyone will die to focus fire and stunlock, but in 2v2, 1v1 etc it can make a good deal of difference.

Common?
0 Soldier amulets were used in Pro League so far, both EU and NA… while only Final Form used Sentinel for Druids.

…if you don’t believe me, you can check all Pro League builds, just follow the link in my signature.

The only common thing about soldier amulet is the person who said its common uses it, so they think that it must be good.

Just a quick look;

• Power damage is soft countered by;
  toughness
  vitality

• Power damage is hard countered by;
  Protection, blocks, blinds, evades, weakness, slow (rare)

• Power builds need 3 stats to be effective at it job; power, precision, critical damage

• Condition build is soft countered by vitality

• Condition build is hard countered by;
  Massive amount of cleanses, which not every class has access to. Slow (rare) and resistance (rare+can be stripped)

• Condition build doesnt care how much toughness you have, they do not care if you have protection up. They also dont give a kitten if they have weakness on themself as it doesnt reduce their damage. Condition damage ticks during evades/blocks/invuls once applied and the damage it does is nothing to sneeze at. Since june patch vul also increase condition damage.

• Condition build in reality need olny one stat which is condition damage allowing them to go defensive while still dishing out insane amount of damage. Expertise and precision is not really neecesary to make it work as some people claim it to be. On crit traits can trigger just fine with smart usage of int sigil.

Now the thing is.. Cause vul increase condi damage, why protection doesnt reduce it? Why condition damage is still allowed to bypass toughness? Why they olny need to stack one stat in order to work and dish damage nearly on par with power builds and at same time being allowed to go for stats like toughness/healing while if you try to stack olny power on a power build you be hitting like a wet noodle?

Burtnik.5218:

Now the thing is.. Cause vul increase condi damage, why protection doesnt reduce it? Why condition damage is still allowed to bypass toughness? Why they olny need to stack one stat in order to work and dish damage nearly on par with power builds and at same time being allowed to go for stats like toughness/healing while if you try to stack olny power on a power build you be hitting like a wet noodle?

Well, they will jump and say something like, that landing chillblains or banish enhantment requires skill, then they ll whine about condi clears, but they will forget that they have now way more ways of applying condis then they had before. And surely they will forget about that 2 classes which are viable in condi play has great access to boon striping to bypass Resistance.

Burtnik.5218:

snip

Condition builds are countered by everything (except toughness) that power builds are. If a attack is blocked, the attack can’t apply conditions. Same with evades.

• Condition build is hard countered by;
  Massive amount of cleanses, which not every class has access to.

Not every build has access to blocks either, so by the logic of this thread, Power builds must also be OP

I think the answer is not to counter condis but to counter the classes that wield said condi power.

And here are my suggestions:

I think Revs who run Viper are extremely susceptible to burst damage. Put pressure on them and they won’t last very long unless supported by something like Druids or Eles or Bunker Mesmers. Just like ORNG was running.

Next Necromancers, These guys are tough to deal with mainly because you have two healths to chunk down. The first way to shut them down is to burst them at the start of the fight so they don’t gain any Deathshroud. Second way is to get a Shout class (Guard, Ele, Warrior etc) that can heal and cleanse condis for you or Third way is use a Daredevil to harass them. If you guys don’t know, Daredevils evade a lot and Condi-Reapers attack too slow so, you have a perfect foil for them. Or last resort, get your own Necro, as in normal, basic, no specialization Necro, trust me, you won’t regret it.

So that’s how you beat the most prevalent condi classes. Forward any questions to my secretary…. whom I have not appointed yet.

New builds just don’t run as much AoE condi removal fest as previous used to, c(l)ockblocking every pure condition build. Everything shifted to evade/block/CC spam.

No wonder Condition builds hurt more.

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Saiyan.1704:

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Your recipe to “balance issues” is hillarious…
There is something a bit unbalanced? No problem! Form premade and PuG stomp!

Honestly, Revenant is beyond broken and overpowered. I did nearly 800k damage in one match with one:
http://i.imgur.com/m15ryez.jpg

I don’t understand how they thought having access to 2 stacks of stability and retaliation on dodge that applies might on hit is even remotely balanced. With the amount of resistance I get, I feel virtually immune to other condition builds.

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Your recipe to “balance issues” is hillarious…
There is something a bit unbalanced? No problem! Form premade and PuG stomp!

…. all I see him doing is giving a reasonable solution to the problems soloq players have with condi.

Condi is much deadlier while pugging, but in tourneys the condi classes you see aren’t usually pure condi and they are usually there to counter other condi players (mallyx rev, signet necro) and then there ds auramancers farting out condi clear heals and group support while never getting below 90% unless focus 1v3 and even then they might survive long enough for help if they are good.

I main a reaper, and I have been playing condi lately but not the meta carrion frostfire build, I opted for wanderers or vipers depending on if I see an ele on the other team.

I get that people are having a problem with chill because the feel helpless when they are out of condi clears chill can be an extremely frustrating way to die as you see the reaper running away from you while you frantically try to hit them. But is it any more frustrating than getting perma stunned by a mesmer, or essentially one shot by a dh? Everyone was trying to counter all the direCT damage so we eased up on the condI clears and some people noticed this and adapted. Some didnt.

What intrigues me the most is that ANet’s design around the Reaper is working incredibly as intended: people feeling helpless and unable to escape from the monster chasing them. Whether or not it’s balanced, time will tell. I think coincidental condis are far too easy to apply, but it’s also pretty amazing how few people seem to slot cleanses into their build. I always come prepared with many, but that’s my solo roamer mentality keeping an eye on all of the mechanics, not just hoping someone doesn’t bring one to a particular fight.

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Your recipe to “balance issues” is hillarious…
There is something a bit unbalanced? No problem! Form premade and PuG stomp!

…why would you balance a game on randomized solo players? Anet needs to add SoloQ and give you guys your own SoloQQ forums along with it…

Saiyan.1704:

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Your recipe to “balance issues” is hillarious…
There is something a bit unbalanced? No problem! Form premade and PuG stomp!

…why would you balance a game on randomized solo players? Anet needs to add SoloQ and give you guys your own SoloQQ forums along with it…

Why would you balance game around majority of its playerbase?
Thats pretty weird question.

I believe Condition Damage requires revamp, since last one was done pre Expertise introduction. It would be right moment to make it affected by Toughness, Protection and Weakness, however it would require a bit buffing its damage.

Also majority of amulets is outdated (aren’t used at all), that would be great opportunity to rebalance them around newer version of Condi Damage also reason to give us more amulets with Condi Damage and Expertie, same goes for Concentration.

I agree let’s make everyone invincible toughness tanks that apparently no longer need vitality to counter condi. Or condi clears.

It’s not a weird question. If anet balances for the soloq population the high end pvp will suffer and anets esports goal would be impossible.

NeXeD.3042:

I agree let’s make everyone invincible toughness tanks that apparently no longer need vitality to counter condi. Or condi clears.

Vitality doesn’t counter condi. It’s like saying Vitality counters power damage.

NeXeD.3042:

It’s not a weird question. If anet balances for the soloq population the high end pvp will suffer and anets esports goal would be impossible.

Huh, imho the most e-sportz game (LoL) was balanced about crowds. Guess why? Probably because game to be popular has to be enjoyable by crowds as much as possible, not only by “pros”.

Saiyan.1704:

Want to see real bias? See my signature

That pretty much sums your response for 2 coppers.

On top of that, condi duration is not necessary at all. People lived without it and been doing fine. Nothing changed here. The condi application made my day. Its like i could tell to deal power damage you need power application. You pick up weapons which are specialized at dealing conditions and that is pretty much.

And maybe you dont know but balancing around few “pro” teams vs majority which is soloq is not really smart way to promote “esport” or pvp in general.

Played quite a few matches last week,and I too felt that conditions are
more powerful than they should be.
They do a lot of damage with the least amount of effort,and they are spammed
and reapplied way too often and easy.
And cleansing them,given all of the above,has become more of a way to delay the
inevitable than a valid counter.

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Burtnik.5218:

Just my bias response…
snip

Your bias response forgot a few things… Condi needs a bit more items to be effective.

• Condi duration
• Condi application
• Condi damage
  There’s a give and take for going condi. Most condi builds lack CC and/or sustains because.. well, they’re condi.

Signet Necros
DS Eles
Absolute Resolution Power Guards
Shout War
Shout Bunker Guards…
Stack any of these classes as you see fit.

There are 3x more team comps that hard counter condi than power. Yet you want more Protection for your power build…

If you can’t handle randomized soloQ where your unsyncronized team can’t beat that 1 or 2 random condi player scrub… make a team who can.

Your recipe to “balance issues” is hillarious…
There is something a bit unbalanced? No problem! Form premade and PuG stomp!

…why would you balance a game on randomized solo players? Anet needs to add SoloQ and give you guys your own SoloQQ forums along with it…

Why would you balance game around majority of its playerbase?

You would not because the majority of players have no clue what they’re doing half the time.

Key examples.
“Majority of players” cried nerfs on power guards, when bunker guard was considered meta at the time (post cele induction).

“Majority of players” cried nerfs on power Rangers when they weren’t even viable in TPvP. Unfortunately, their Rapid Fire got nerfed anyways to sooth the SoloQ tears.

“Majority of players” cried nerfs on power Thieves prepatch, even when their roles in TPvP were apparent. If it wasn’t for their +1 decapping abilities most would rather not have a Thief at all..

There’s a surplus of DH in the games due to popularity, and everyone cries nerfs… now DH barely makes 5th status class in TPvP compared to the power creep and suddenly the QQs stop.

The balance of this game would be a mess if the Devs abide to every Solo Queue complaints. Again, wish yall got your own SoloQQ forums.

Morwath.9817:

Huh, imho the most e-sportz game (LoL) was balanced about crowds. Guess why? Probably because game to be popular has to be enjoyable by crowds as much as possible, not only by “pros”.

GW2 isn’t a Moba or an FPS shooter. GW2 is no different than any other MMO game. How about we compare it to it’s own genre?

Aeon looks absolutely stunning, don’t see Esport crowds herding in that direction. If you think Mobas were built around how well it looked amongst spectators, then you’re sadly mistaken.

@Saiyan.1704
I haven’t said Anet has to follow cries, but rather if something is “too good” (read: has higher potential and significant better winrate due to that than other stuff, doesn’t have to be OP) then it requires rebalancing. Simple as that.

Also… you’re pretty hypocrite, seriously. You’re saying they can’t catter to “majority”, because they won’t be e-sports, but when I give you example of e-sports game which went balancing around majority path, then you’re telling me GW2 should be compared to it’s own genre (hint: no other MMO is aiming at e-sports).

Next thing, I’ve used “crowds” as refference to majority of playerbase, not spectators.

Morwath.9817:

@Saiyan.1704
I haven’t said Anet has to follow cries, but rather if something is “too good” (read: has higher potential and significant better winrate due to that than other stuff, doesn’t have to be OP) then it requires rebalancing. Simple as that.

Also… you’re pretty hypocrite, seriously. You’re saying they can’t catter to “majority”, because they won’t be e-sports, but when I give you example of e-sports game which went balancing around majority path, then you’re telling me GW2 should be compared to it’s own genre (hint: no other MMO is aiming at e-sports).

Next thing, I’ve used “crowds” as refference to majority of playerbase, not spectators.

Take dh as an example the majority of players are crying about them. But the high end players don’t sweat em. Should they be nerfed?

Now Shiro mallyx viper rev, the majority of people probably don’t have a problem with them because the majority of players can’t play them to their full potential so the ones you see other than the high end players suck pretty bad… yet in high end play it’s a thing of kittening beauty. Should they be buffed?

NeXeD.3042:

Morwath.9817:

@Saiyan.1704
I haven’t said Anet has to follow cries, but rather if something is “too good” (read: has higher potential and significant better winrate due to that than other stuff, doesn’t have to be OP) then it requires rebalancing. Simple as that.

Also… you’re pretty hypocrite, seriously. You’re saying they can’t catter to “majority”, because they won’t be e-sports, but when I give you example of e-sports game which went balancing around majority path, then you’re telling me GW2 should be compared to it’s own genre (hint: no other MMO is aiming at e-sports).

Next thing, I’ve used “crowds” as refference to majority of playerbase, not spectators.

Take dh as an example the majority of players are crying about them. But the high end players don’t sweat em. Should they be nerfed.

Now Shiro mallyx viper rev, the majority of people probably don’t have a problem with them because the majority of players can’t play them to their full potential so the ones you see other than the high end players suck pretty bad… yet in high end play it’s a thing of kittening beauty.

Have you even read post you’ve quoted?
If so, then if DH got 10% higher win rate than other professions, then yes, their most popular build should be re-balanced (read: nerfed) and Guardians should be buffed somewhere else to fix that extra win rate.

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Morwath.9817:

@Saiyan.1704
I haven’t said Anet has to follow cries, but rather if something is “too good” (read: has higher potential and significant better winrate due to that than other stuff, doesn’t have to be OP) then it requires rebalancing. Simple as that.

Also… you’re pretty hypocrite, seriously. You’re saying they can’t catter to “majority”, because they won’t be e-sports, but when I give you example of e-sports game which went balancing around majority path, then you’re telling me GW2 should be compared to it’s own genre (hint: no other MMO is aiming at e-sports).

Next thing, I’ve used “crowds” as refference to majority of playerbase, not spectators.

Take dh as an example the majority of players are crying about them. But the high end players don’t sweat em. Should they be nerfed.

Now Shiro mallyx viper rev, the majority of people probably don’t have a problem with them because the majority of players can’t play them to their full potential so the ones you see other than the high end players suck pretty bad… yet in high end play it’s a thing of kittening beauty.

Have you even read post you’ve quoted?
If so, then if DH got 10% higher win rate than other professions, then yes, their most popular build should be re-balanced (read: nerfed) and Guardians should be buffed somewhere else to fix that extra win rate.

Ok but what about the rev, I bet that build doesn’t have a really high winrate but it’s amazing in high end play…. so they buff that? Yeah that won’t completely break how high end pvp is… it will also just essentially cement what classes you will see in every tourney with very little change, or we would just see people plaYing FoTM builds even more.

From what i noticed about viper rev (had match 2 days ago against rom, dinsch and someone else from orng) dinsch was actually carried quite hard by rom to survive when i pushed on him. The build may be great for high pvp but for soloq i would stay away from it. Too squishy on it own.

NeXeD.3042:

Morwath.9817:

NeXeD.3042:

Morwath.9817:

@Saiyan.1704
I haven’t said Anet has to follow cries, but rather if something is “too good” (read: has higher potential and significant better winrate due to that than other stuff, doesn’t have to be OP) then it requires rebalancing. Simple as that.

Also… you’re pretty hypocrite, seriously. You’re saying they can’t catter to “majority”, because they won’t be e-sports, but when I give you example of e-sports game which went balancing around majority path, then you’re telling me GW2 should be compared to it’s own genre (hint: no other MMO is aiming at e-sports).

Next thing, I’ve used “crowds” as refference to majority of playerbase, not spectators.

Take dh as an example the majority of players are crying about them. But the high end players don’t sweat em. Should they be nerfed.

Now Shiro mallyx viper rev, the majority of people probably don’t have a problem with them because the majority of players can’t play them to their full potential so the ones you see other than the high end players suck pretty bad… yet in high end play it’s a thing of kittening beauty.

Have you even read post you’ve quoted?
If so, then if DH got 10% higher win rate than other professions, then yes, their most popular build should be re-balanced (read: nerfed) and Guardians should be buffed somewhere else to fix that extra win rate.

Ok but what about the rev, I bet that build doesn’t have a really high winrate but it’s amazing in high end play…. so they buff that? Yeah that won’t completely break how high end pvp is… it will also just essentially cement what classes you will see in every tourney with very little change, or we would just see people plaYing FoTM builds even more.

I think it may have pretty good win rate, there isn’t anything harder about Revenant than Thieves and Mesmers in the past.

Anyway, if Malyx/Shiro would have bad winrate for crowds and would be “amazing in high end play” then, I probably wouldn’t touch it, if Revenant itself has below ~50% win rate overall. I’d rather buff Salvation and Ventari, I guess you would do the same…

Also about “high end play”, in last Pro League:
Shiro/Glynt : 9
Shiro/Malyx : 6

Winrate really shouldn’t be used kitten the end-all of balancing. There are too many other factors that affect winrate that have nothing to do with balance.

Aenaos.8160:

Played quite a few matches last week,and I too felt that conditions are
more powerful than they should be.
They do a lot of damage with the least amount of effort,and they are spammed
and reapplied way too often and easy.
And cleansing them,given all of the above,has become more of a way to delay the
inevitable than a valid counter.

How powerful do you feel they should be? Should you be free to basically ignore them? That’s’ the impression I’m getting.

Why is applying 1 or 2 bleed stacks per cast “less effort” than hitting for 1 – 3k damage? Do you recognize that many of the abilities that apply the most conditions have animations you can dodge, just like Power abilities? Look them up.

Saying cleansing is like delaying the inevitable is like arguing that healing is delaying the inevitable against power damage. But it isn’t even like that. I don’t know what you mean. There’s this perception of futility when someone has chill, 10 bleeds, 4 poisons, and 3 burns on them, but they have absolutely no idea where those conditions came from.

And they think their argument from ignorance is OK.