Guild Wars 2

I’m curious if necromancers will get this new condition in non-Death Shroud skills too, considering it says thieves and mesmers do. Attaching it to just Death Shroud would likely make necromancers the worst at using this new condition in structured PvP, which I doubt is the intent.

My only question on Torment… Stacks Duration or Intensity?

Please.. please be Intensity.

Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?

Sounds legit.

I believe the decision for thieves was to promote condition builds. I’m quite interested in how that will work out.

It seems if spec’ced for condition dmg, they want the condition to be quite powerful, so it makes sense to stack for intensity.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?

Sounds legit.

Because. :P

I’m guessing that Thieves will only be able to apply torment while wielding Shortbows and/or Pistols. Makes the most sense to have a movement stopper on the ranged weapons. Though I guess it could be on Sword too, since you do want your target to stay still for things like pistol whip.

Oh, or maybe it will be added to a trait line, like Thievery.

Rallad.3802:

I believe the decision for thieves was to promote condition builds. I’m quite interested in how that will work out.

And people thought rangers with condis and pets was annoying. Cant wait to face a player who is near perma invisible putting conditions on my endlessly.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?

Sounds legit.

Id take a guess and that you wont have to worry to much about torment except for condi builds which means the thief wailing on you wont hurt it will be the conditions. Its not like backstab is going to apply 20 stacks of torment so you get the stab then have to stand there and not move.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?

Sounds legit.

Really?

Condition damage and burst can not be attained at the same time, with perhaps the exception of an Engi’s ability to stack Might and to a much lesser extent Ele. No backstab Thief on the face of this planet will be able to incorporate Torment in to a build.

But didn’t Anet also say “If fighting a thief you can’t pin down, just move on?”

…now we won’t be able to move on without taking damage.

Bravo Anet /slow clap

Auesis.7301:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?

Sounds legit.

Really?

Condition damage and burst can not be attained at the same time, with perhaps the exception of an Engi’s ability to stack Might and to a much lesser extent Ele. No backstab Thief on the face of this planet will be able to incorporate Torment in to a build.

Even if thats not the case, that they will be 100% unable to burst a character down with the use of torment, if the goal is to add variety to thief why do you give the class that is one of the best at disengaging more disengage power. Look at the warrior now. Already had no good gap closer besides Bull’s and now they have to deal with Torment on top of that? What is another top tier class at disengaging? Mesmer you say… wait they get Torment now too?

p/d thieves are the bane of all existence in WvW. Its almost impossible to catch them and equally difficult to get away from them. And they are a condition build, Torment is exactly what they would use.

So, what now? ANet found that some Thieves were still getting caugth, or lose their target? They attempted to fix it before when they buffed the trait to increase speed in stealth to a whooping 50%. And now this.

Yeah this is going to be real fun. Cannot ever catch a p/d thief, and cannot ever escape a p/d thief.
Also, what the hell is up with all these boons/conditions that punish players for just playing the game? Retaliation if you hit me, Confusion if you use any skill and now Torment for just moving. Seems kinda important to get out of AoE and such…

So, next patch we’ll see another new condition? Suffering mayhaps? Deals extra damage if the target stays logged in? Thief exclusive, obviously.

This will be fun for Mesmers…

Imagine getting 10 stacks of Torment & Confusion.

Did you move? You take damage.
Did you press a button? You take damage.
Are you standing still doing nothing? You’re taking damage.

Oh boy, intensity gives me hope. Thief can reapply it easy, give necros INTENSITY!

Danicco.3568:

This will be fun for Mesmers…

Imagine getting 10 stacks of Torment & Confusion.

Did you move? You take damage.
Did you press a button? You take damage.
Are you standing still doing nothing? You’re taking damage.

Condition mesmers are a nightmare. Staff plus scepter/torch, sooo annoying. Let’s see how this works out, going to reroll mesmer soon I believe.

I think this is a horrible idea to give it to mesmers and thieves I cannot fathom the thought process behind this.

Let’s give necros something unique but lets give it to 2 of the most dominating and trollish proffs in the game as well. Way to drop the ball and cave in to the cancer that is killing this game.

ESPORTS AHOY I’m a sky pirate

Giving two classes with kiting abilities as well as decent mobility the new Torment condition makes simply no sense.
It makes sense to give Necromancers a skill like this, since they have trouble with ranged opponents and people with high mobility.
Thieves and Mesmers however are excellent at exactly this already, where as a class like Offensive Guardian has a lot of trouble with ranged opponents.
Mesmers will now be stronger against melee, and Guardians/Warriors/Necros will now have an even more difficult time fighting mesmers.
The patch sounds decent, but this HAS to be a mistype unless Guardians and Warriors are getting some serious skill/trait revamp.

I wonder whakittens like in one of their meetings…

“So we added new powers to mesmers and thieves so we have to nerf things so we dont have a power creep… anyone have ideas?”

“How about we nerf the warrior?”

“Great idea!”

While I’m against that thieves get this condi, we haven’t seen the update. I’d say keep calm and #believeinkarl.

Lol, they will destroy WvW to try to add variety to death spvp xD.
Confusion mesmers are popular, add torment, I can already see the rule in WvW clans, minimum 2 mesmers condi per party .
And condition thieves, i used one of them for some time in WvW, stopped because i was nearly unkillable (true that i couldn’t burst but condis eventually kill too ), now with torment, lol, can’t wait to try it. You move, you die, you don’t move, you die too.

It’s kind of funny. I was just playing Rift a few days ago and thought “man Storm Shackle would be really helpful for the kitten staff ele who can’t kite or chase classes like thief and mesmer.”

BOOM!

http://www.rifthead.com/ability/754080588/storm-shackle

Caffynated.5713:

It’s kind of funny. I was just playing Rift a few days ago and thought “man Storm Shackle would be really helpful for the kitten staff ele who can’t kite or chase classes like thief and mesmer.”

BOOM!

http://www.rifthead.com/ability/754080588/storm-shackle

It’s more like Bloodseeker’s Rupture. http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Bloodseeker.

Torment is a terrible idea and here is why…we already have a very very very strong condition that is littered throughout this game that hits movement. It’s called immobilize. So now on top of burst with immobilize, we have to decide after an immobilize whether we’re going to stand still and take MORE burst. Ridiculousness

I’m assuming thieves will only get torment through venom, and it will have a crappy duration too. I wouldn’t worry too much.

Will it work with teleports/dashes? Please say yes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear

I’d be surprised if Torment was actually strong. For one it’s a stacking condition, they have low initial damage since they’re supposed to ramp up.

2) Currently thieves DoT is limited to bleeding and poison. This will be a condi spec thing primarily of which thief doesn’t roll. P/D WvW trolling? Who is to say that is not augmented this patch. Maybe Torment on Shadow strike to make more varied change.

3) Dunno if dodging is counted. Possibly not since confusion already treats dodging as a skill.

4)If this skill balance is large (possibly) than the weapons/utilities which get this ability may have other skills re-balanced around this new addition. So Current WvW presence (if you care about that) doesn’t necessarily apply. Though eh who knows with Anet.

It’s probably more so just to give the condi specs on these profs a bit of an extra edge to bring them up to par. That isn’t to say other professions don’t have weak condi specs but considering I don’t recall Condi Mes and condi thief being a “thing” for eons…. i doubt its an issue.

Wolfheart.1938:

Will it work with teleports/dashes? Please say yes.

It would be better if it worked only on those skills to punish the professions that have endless amounts of them. Especially in cases where immobilizes are rendered useless because of them.

Pyriall.5027:

Wolfheart.1938:

Will it work with teleports/dashes? Please say yes.

It would be better if it worked only on those skills to punish the professions that have endless amounts of them. Especially in cases where immobilizes are rendered useless because of them.

In my opinion immo should work also on teleports.

It doesn’t make sense to give the highly mobile classes(thief and mesmer) more movement impairing conditions. This condi should be for the slower ones.

Arken.3725:

It doesn’t make sense to give the highly mobile classes(thief and mesmer) more movement impairing conditions. This condi should be for the slower ones.

Don’t want to assume Anet but if it were me…

Mesmer Scepter is relatively underplayed, it deals Confusion but other then that it’s pretty much condiless. In addition the set itself has no real mobility unless you slap on focus. You could slap on torch but that too is an underutilized weapon.
So if I was putting on Torment knowing Scepter/Torch is pretty much heavy condi based, I’d put Torment on either the Scepter or the Torch. Since it stacks in intensity it’ll be weak for the typical power specced Mesmer and give them some variation in how they build.

If I look at thief, D/D, SB and P/D are the builds that can really hold condi’s. Unless im trying to correct S/X or D/P’s lack of synergy with Trickery condi dmg (which I doubt) it’s gonna go on D/D, P/D or SB. SB is pretty strong already excusing trick shot so unless Chocking Gas is being altered or IA being altered to put more benefit in warping to a target, it won’t get it.
The way to hit P/D and D/D simultaneously is Dancing daggers, which already a skill not really seeing play at all or I could put it on either of their dual skills which again don’t really see play at all. Only thing is LDB would be a superfed skill.

What is the issue?
Is the current Scepter/x Mesmer really mobile? Not really.

ensoriki.5789:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear

I’d be surprised if Torment was actually strong. For one it’s a stacking condition, they have low initial damage since they’re supposed to ramp up.

2) Currently thieves DoT is limited to bleeding and poison. This will be a condi spec thing primarily of which thief doesn’t roll. P/D WvW trolling? Who is to say that is not augmented this patch. Maybe Torment on Shadow strike to make more varied change.

3) Dunno if dodging is counted. Possibly not since confusion already treats dodging as a skill.

It’s probably more so just to give the condi specs on these profs a bit of an extra edge to bring them up to par. That isn’t to say other professions don’t have weak condi specs but considering I don’t recall Condi Mes and condi thief being a “thing” for eons…. i doubt its an issue.

Also http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains

Do we need to spell it out in crayon for you people. These classes are already well represented have utterly dominating builds for spvp and wvw and giving them more free mechanics is a slap in the face to the rest of the community when there are larger and more pressing issues to be tackled.

Condition built thieves are not necessarily highly mobile. They might have P/D, or even D/D. The most mobile secondary is a SB, the way this condition sounds/seems, (I have yet to see a link to it) is it will be a in combat condition. Condi thieves do not have in-combat mobility, so like a d/p thief or a s/d thief might.

I’d disagree. Shadowstrike and Heartseeker fit the bill for in-combat mobility. Though there is obviously things you can say about them in a condi spec (or shadow strike in general).

JonPeters.5630:

Intensity (15 chars)

Here’s a philosohpical question…why does the pvp playerbase constantly get the shaft as it relates to resources?

ensoriki.5789:

I’d disagree. Shadowstrike and Heartseeker fit the bill for in-combat mobility. Though there is obviously things you can say about them in a condi spec (or shadow strike in general).

I will agree to an extent that Heartseeker in D/D build is mobility. But for a condition build, I don’t really think so, considering all you do in D/D is spam DB anyways, so you might not have or be able to spend the initiative to do so.

Shadowstrike teleports you away from a target. If you finally catch up to something you were chasing, use Shadowstrike and the target is not low enough to die from the 2nd attack? That is not a definition of mobility.

Holy chit thief entitlement much

I’m guessing that Torment will be put onto pistols for Thieves, since they make more sense in condition builds anyway.

I don’t really care either way on Torment for either, because Warriors, Guardians, Necros, and Engineers do conditions way better anyway, especially now that Necros can burn. Reason being you can increase Precision with Condition Damage for them and use Sigil of Earth to get bleeds on crit.

Kinjax
For sure, but if you lose target with D/D. Then you’re going to throw either Dancing daggers (not really) or jump in with heartseeker (probably). If you need to kite/escape you’re going to throw Dancing daggers (unlikely) or Heartseeker (probably). So the mobility is definitely there. Ideally Condi D/D can relax on LDB a bit more after the patch. Or who knows maybe they throw torment on LDb and make us buy new 3 buttons on our keyboard every week.

Shadow strike is a kiting/defensive skill. If you were chasing you’d use Dancing dagger as your snare (eh not really). So like a Mesmer dropping phase retreats is the kind of incombat mobility I mean. Since P/D is a ranged set in theory…. if you can Shadow strike someone and warp to 600 range than with your 900 range weapon you can continue to harass with 1,2 or 3 (though thats obviously not the case).

Like I said there is definitely something to be said about their mobility, but they certainly have it.

ensoriki.5789:

Kinjax
For sure, but if you lose target with D/D. Then you’re going to throw either Dancing daggers (not really) or jump in with heartseeker (probably). If you need to kite/escape you’re going to throw Dancing daggers (unlikely) or Heartseeker (probably). So the mobility is definitely there. Ideally Condi D/D can relax on LDB a bit more after the patch. Or who knows maybe they throw torment on LDb and make us buy new 3 buttons on our keyboard every week.

Shadow strike is a kiting/defensive skill. If you were chasing you’d use Dancing dagger as your snare (eh not really). So like a Mesmer dropping phase retreats is the kind of incombat mobility I mean. Since P/D is a ranged set in theory…. if you can Shadow strike someone and warp to 600 range than with your 900 range weapon you can continue to harass with 1,2 or 3 (though thats obviously not the case).

Like I said there is definitely something to be said about their mobility, but they certainly have it.

Alright I will agree with this. Personally I still believe P/D still has to rely way to much on stealth to put out all its conditions. So maybe, hopefully shadowstrike will have a condition on it to. And maybe DB as well, so far I am excited to see condition thieves.

But what I really want to see is condition thieves that do not rely on stealth spam. Stealth spam is not the greatest thing for tpvp.

Never asked this question to the devs but…do you even play your own game?

You’ll make the heavy condition spam meta even worst, rather than finding a happy medium between condition cleansing and application..you go and add even more conditions and if this was not enough you give this new condition to a profession that can already kill you if you press a single skill far too many times, now they’ll kill you if you take far too many steps, moreover for them it’ll be even more easy to land their short CD burst as you now take dmg while trying to skillfully negating their super easy to set burst.

And if all this was not enough, the devs even give more buffs to thieves…guess even more people will re-roll to mesmer and thief on the 25th

I think Anet should be carefull with the torment conditions combined with the cripple and chill conditions on the Thief class, by for example replacing the the Cripple effect on Dancing Dagger to Torment condition

(or a effect like http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear).

Thief can almost spam slow conditions. Especially the Shortbow allows the Thief perma cripple and if with Torment, with a Combo like that they will be able to kite like a Boss and dps in PVP/WVW and PVE (solo Boss)

Kind of frustrated, even though I know it hasn’t came out yet, Us Warriors already have a HUGE problem with cripples chills and immob completely shutting us down. Kited to death, our 40 second cool down utility skill Bull Rush is completely shut down by some classes auto attack (Thief sword spams cripple). Not to mention how these conditions are littered on almost every weapon set and low cool down attacks as an extra. This new condition is going to punish us even further, with our lack of sustain and force us to stay in one place or take damage that we can’t sustain!? This is going to make Warriors completely Laughable.

I know it hasn’t been released yet, but from looking logically at the most difficult issue us warriors face (being kited, and all our movement skills, minus savage leap, being shut down by cripple chill and immob) and this looks to completely exacerbate the issue.

If torment were added on the mesmer’s Scepter, people would still use Scepter/Pistol and GS, which would result in phantasm mesmers being even stronger in duels.

KrisHQ.4719:

If torment were added on the mesmer’s Scepter, people would still use Scepter/Pistol and GS, which would result in phantasm mesmers being even stronger in duels.

Are we talking about a condi spec here, srs.
For all we know Torment scales almost entirely on condi dmg.
Something like (0.07 * condi_dmg) + 1.5 or something and a phantasm mesmer is better off not bothering with it unless they lower their damage to dip into condi_dmg.
If it’s on scepter 2’s Blind for instance than to get something out of a condition that has low base dmg (hypothetically speaking) and make it worth going Scepter over Sword or staff then they have to likely switch out of berserkers.

Mesmers do not have alot slow conditions and mobility like the Thief class.
I think the main challenge is for the melee class, when it faces 3 clones and the mobility of the Mesmer.
Imo The Necro should be the class that benefit the most from the Torment condition.

Giving mesmers Torment sounds like a bad idea. Yes it sounds all hex like and mesmery but I don’t see the merit in adding more to a class with an already stacked arsenal.

I’m hoping I don’t have to log back in here on the 26th and say I told you so.

lets check why this 3 classes get the new condition.

necro= yea why not he was a bit weak and this condu Looks good at him
thief=he just get it to make hes runnr builds stronger and stronger. before noone was able to catch them.now nooneis allowed to try or he will die.
mesmer= ah yea ist the mesmer Anet privet class.so he must be OP

why do not the “melee” classes like warrior or guard get this. i see new warrior build incoming
Longbow- rifle bunker on Point.

and the best mesmr burst ;P

shatter 20 confusion +15 torment. moa enemy.
now you just can go afk. using skills= dead
use moa 5 to run away you just see a light and then are just some fethers because you used movement skill.

in this way warrior greatsword skills= dead
bullscharge= dead
1 handed sword= dead

so lik ei said longbow+rifle. or no i reroll to mesmer….. or leave to FF14 there is still pve interesting

It does seem strange not to give this new condition to the melee classes, (particularly Warriors.) After all, it’s this class (above all others) that needs it’s targets to be as stationary as possible to inflict damage upon them.

Never-the-less, we’ll just have to wait and see what other changes this balance patch brings… although giving Torment to Mesmers and Thieves does give cause for concern as to exactly what direction ArenaNet are taking this game.

Time will tell.

JonPeters.5630:

Intensity (15 chars)

Care to tell us lowly mortals why you are giving this to thieves ?