Guild Wars 2

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Batmang.5421:

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2622702

full ele burst with arcane = 20% deathshroud.

Get serious man. That is like a tutorial on why it is stupid to burst a target with all of their Defensive CDs active at the same time.

Batmang.5421:

This is just an example of how much damage mitigation a necro has access to.

Yes, if a Necro has Spectral Armor, they have 6 seconds or so of sustain. So OP. Since you seem so fond of telling others to L2P, how about you acknowledge that you posted this video under deliberately misleading pretense in order to stir the pot. Don’t burst a target that has all of his defensive CD’s. L2P. Hurrr durrr

Sharp is right to disregard this thread. He didn’t even need to see the video to know that you are full of bulla bulla.

I did not post this to stir the pot. I posted this to show people some of the defensive capability of necro. I dare to say most people would have no idea this was a possibility even after reading the patch notes. Keep in mind there is an icd on the life force generation from spectral armor which unless its bugged, would actually be stronger in damage mitigation (in some scenarios) than whats show in that video.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

I get the impression that the people asking for lifeforce at the beginning of games have failed to utilize the class to it’s fullest potential which makes it a L2P issue.

In the case of stealth-bursts this is not the case. The only thing a necromancer can do is plague-form to survive such a burst. Also as a guardian myself, it is very hard to survive stealth openers. It’s more about lucky dodging and block-prediciton than anyting else. In this specific scenario it has nothing to do with L2P.

Simple fact is necro have the ability to mitigate A TON of burst as shown in the video. Very close in comparison to a lot of other classes that have similar damage output. I’m personally not against stealth openers because I find it interesting but that’s just my opinion. My post was not to justify stealth openers but to provide evidence that necro has the ability to mitigate burst damage.

For normal bursts absolutely, but not for stealth-openers. There is no viable way to generate life-force before. Only thing you can do is put marks and you hope you gonna survive it.

So necro has a hardcounter just like every other class? Preposterous.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

I get the impression that the people asking for lifeforce at the beginning of games have failed to utilize the class to it’s fullest potential which makes it a L2P issue.

In the case of stealth-bursts this is not the case. The only thing a necromancer can do is plague-form to survive such a burst. Also as a guardian myself, it is very hard to survive stealth openers. It’s more about lucky dodging and block-prediciton than anyting else. In this specific scenario it has nothing to do with L2P.

Simple fact is necro have the ability to mitigate A TON of burst as shown in the video. Very close in comparison to a lot of other classes that have similar damage output. I’m personally not against stealth openers because I find it interesting but that’s just my opinion. My post was not to justify stealth openers but to provide evidence that necro has the ability to mitigate burst damage.

For normal bursts absolutely, but not for stealth-openers. There is no viable way to generate life-force before. Only thing you can do is put marks and you hope you gonna survive it.

well actually you do. with the flesh golem trick you can start the game with 10% which will still help mitigate a lot of damage when using the combo in the video. Like I said, I’m not defending stealth openers. That issue deserves its own thread.

Batmang.5421:

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2622702

full ele burst with arcane = 20% deathshroud. This is just an example of how much damage mitigation a necro has access to.

Weren’t spectral skills effects suposed to be turned off when deathshroud was triggered?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Also, a Warrior with an OH Shield can block all of this, but I’m not sure that makes Warriors OP in tPvP.

Just an aside.

Exactly, any Distortion, Blurred Frenzy could have blocked this fast 1-shot combo.
This is just a sign you need to catch the necro offguard to burst him down. And this is a great thing to have for the combat, predicting your oponent’s actions and countering them

theonewhoknocks.8641:

You call that a burst?

First of all get a Focus.
Zap him a little with Arc Lightning to add Vulnerability and start shaving off some of that Death Shroud health.
Then Gale – Lightning Strike – Dragon’s Tooth – Phoenix – Comet – Arcane Blast – Lightning Flash – Arcane Wave – Hurl

This is potentially the highest burst, but there’s really no need to involve Earth attunement, Water autoattack is very good and even the Water Trident packs a 2-3k crit when traits align.

Why this works? Damage increasing factors:
20% – Tempest defence
20% – Bolt to the heart
10% – Scholar runes
10% – Stone splinters
5% – Vital striking
5% – Force sigil
If you play it right most of these will have an effect at one point or another, adding the combo up to 22k+ damage (Heavy dummy dies before you can unload everything)

It doesn’t instagib a Necro with Protection (unlike Thieves and Mesmers), and it definitely shouldn’t, but Ele is definitely capable of taking on such a Necro and the OP-ness of Necros shouldn’t be judged by some Valkarie sustain build while Necro has it’s defences up.

The image below depicts ~23k damage on a Heavy Dummy in mere seconds. That comes after you could potentially be spamming Arc Lightning and Lightning Strike from a safe distance and before firing off Hurl and entering Hulk invulnerable mode.

And then there’s Fiery Greatsword with Bolt to the heart and Stone splinters trait. Massive damage, evasion, gap closing and creating.

You guys even trying to counter Necros? No, just rolling Necros.

Congratulations, you just did a combo with:
a) unviable build in competitive play
b) spells with cast times opposed to a fully instant burst
c) used one of the worst offhand weapon ever designed in a game
d) burned all your attunements, as opposed to just 2 (earth→ air)

But maybe you don’t know the difference between an instant burst, and a “several seconds” burst.

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

I get the impression that the people asking for lifeforce at the beginning of games have failed to utilize the class to it’s fullest potential which makes it a L2P issue.

In the case of stealth-bursts this is not the case. The only thing a necromancer can do is plague-form to survive such a burst. Also as a guardian myself, it is very hard to survive stealth openers. It’s more about lucky dodging and block-prediciton than anyting else. In this specific scenario it has nothing to do with L2P.

Simple fact is necro have the ability to mitigate A TON of burst as shown in the video. Very close in comparison to a lot of other classes that have similar damage output. I’m personally not against stealth openers because I find it interesting but that’s just my opinion. My post was not to justify stealth openers but to provide evidence that necro has the ability to mitigate burst damage.

For normal bursts absolutely, but not for stealth-openers. There is no viable way to generate life-force before. Only thing you can do is put marks and you hope you gonna survive it.

well actually you do. with the flesh golem trick you can start the game with 10% which will still help mitigate a lot of damage when using the combo in the video. Like I said, I’m not defending stealth openers. That issue deserves its own thread.

Doesn’t that mean you have to play with golem during the match or is there a chance to pick another ultimate? Because you know . . . plague- and lich-form are ten times better.

I’m surprised to see that the new Spectral Armor is that good in 1vs1 in PvP.
Being mostly a PvE player I have serious doubts about it’s usefulness against some of the dungeon bosses and things like the Arah Sniper Risen, but we shall see.

Also something to keep in mind is that if the burst was more damaging or there were more players executing it the Necro would have likely died.
It has an internal cooldown of 1 second between hits.

Meanwhile something like Mistform blocks an infinite amount of Power damage for it’s duration and prevents you from getting stunlocked as well.
(At the cost of being unable to fight while using it of course)

Certainly an interesting thread in any case.

theonewhoknocks.8641:

You call that a burst?

First of all get a Focus.
Zap him a little with Arc Lightning to add Vulnerability and start shaving off some of that Death Shroud health.
Then Gale – Lightning Strike – Dragon’s Tooth – Phoenix – Comet – Arcane Blast – Lightning Flash – Arcane Wave – Hurl

This is potentially the highest burst, but there’s really no need to involve Earth attunement, Water autoattack is very good and even the Water Trident packs a 2-3k crit when traits align.

Why this works? Damage increasing factors:
20% – Tempest defence
20% – Bolt to the heart
10% – Scholar runes
10% – Stone splinters
5% – Vital striking
5% – Force sigil
If you play it right most of these will have an effect at one point or another, adding the combo up to 22k+ damage (Heavy dummy dies before you can unload everything)

It doesn’t instagib a Necro with Protection (unlike Thieves and Mesmers), and it definitely shouldn’t, but Ele is definitely capable of taking on such a Necro and the OP-ness of Necros shouldn’t be judged by some Valkarie sustain build while Necro has it’s defences up.

The image below depicts ~23k damage on a Heavy Dummy in mere seconds. That comes after you could potentially be spamming Arc Lightning and Lightning Strike from a safe distance and before firing off Hurl and entering Hulk invulnerable mode.

And then there’s Fiery Greatsword with Bolt to the heart and Stone splinters trait. Massive damage, evasion, gap closing and creating.

You guys even trying to counter Necros? No, just rolling Necros.

Oww, you’re cute, trying to post spvp section when you have no idea about it

Batmang.5421:

well actually you do. with the flesh golem trick you can start the game with 10% which will still help mitigate a lot of damage when using the combo in the video. Like I said, I’m not defending stealth openers. That issue deserves its own thread.

We can start with 30% now since June 25th! Blood fiend, shadow fiend, flesh golem

giggity

1 love

JonathanSharp.7094:

Also, a Warrior with an OH Shield can block all of this, but I’m not sure that makes Warriors OP in tPvP.

Just an aside.

I give up …. This indeed shows how much you know about your own game.
I tell you the difference.
What can a warrior do during a Shield block? Nothing! Can he using it when he is knockdowned? No. Is this skill on large CD after the warrior used it? Yes!

A necro can turn his deathshroud on and off within 10 secs. He can also do substantial damage during he is in deathshroud. And again a warrior has obvious animations. When he comes out of his blocks you can guess when he is trying to eviscerate you. Thats something you cannot say for a necro. Instant travel time is a serious issue. On full deathshroud a necro is a god. The combo phanta was doing is usually dealing about 10-13k and thats what? 20% of his deathshroud maybe less. Symbolic not even applied weakness…which you also skyrocket like their is no tommorow. So necro’s has now what? 50-60k life with deathshroud+ Plaque and can still deal alot of condition pressure due to your nice changes to burning and terror….Pls bring someone in here who actually knows how to balance kitten or at least use your own spectating mode in tournaments and watch some skilled players and not these hotjoin scrubs or your pve office friends.

I’ll will just make you a compilation of how nice it is to play a low HP class in your superb balanced condition meta…You wanna condi cleanse – Yeah necros spam autoattack and after 5 seconds I promise you will have again 5-6 different conditions on you…well played well played. People complaining about spirit rangers? I think you only need 1 hand to play a necro competitively nowadays…Clickers are welcomed!
So here are your 2 options. Either decrease all condition cleanses cd significantly or you tone down condition damage a lot because you cant bypass this kitten. Toughness wont help. Vitality just help to a certain degree. Condition cleanses have always a too high cd. And current conditions can kill you instant. If you caught in a fear you die…you cant do kitten…and thats not how conditions worked at the beginning of the game.

…Enough rage for today…but this meta makes me sick and you pretend that everything is fine and balanced while the “real” players just spam your forum how kitten it is currently.

Remove necro, put an ele with the same build with mist form.
Now do the exact combo against the other ele in mist form.
What do we get? Zero damage on a build with high dps.
Double standard? I doubt it. It’s just a nonsensical whine

Cause you obviously can deal damage with Mist Form and it also has a 10s cool down.

Guys, stop the nonsense.

vicious.5683:

Remove necro, put an ele with the same build with mist form.
Now do the exact combo against the other ele in mist form.
What do we get? Zero damage on a build with high dps.
Double standard? I doubt it. It’s just a nonsensical whine

An ele cannot kill an entire team from 1200 range,an ele cannot use skills while in mistform..Of course its different.Each class cannot have both high defence and high offence especially in case of necro whos damage is broken as kitten.

Dear Sharp? Should i hope that i ll stop watching double and triple necro teams after pax is over??Thats all i want to know

Its 60 sec CD from spectral armor. Do you even know something about necro skills? Or are you complaining with no arguments like everyone else on this post?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Our numbers are actually on the rise.

GG!

RE?

The sPvP player base was pretty much at the lowest possible level it could be. There is nowhere left to go but up…….I suspect that the increase in numbers is tied specifically to the Achievement Rewards. All of a sudden PvE Focused players are swarming the Mists. They aren’t here to play they are just here trying to gain a little AP. I haven’t seen this many Lowbie Ranks in sPvP since Launch. Don’t worry JS, they’ll all be gone before you know it.

Acchievement rewards aren’t that worth at the moment, so I doubt players are going for them. Maybe for dailies, which are less time-consuming, but that’s it. I’ve been spending as much time in pve as in pvp since the game is out, and I have about 300-400 acchievement points from pvp, out of my 5500 total. I’m excluding dailies, but, yeah…

Theplayboy.6417:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Our numbers are actually on the rise.

GG!

RE?

The sPvP player base was pretty much at the lowest possible level it could be. There is nowhere left to go but up…….I suspect that the increase in numbers is tied specifically to the Achievement Rewards. All of a sudden PvE Focused players are swarming the Mists. They aren’t here to play they are just here trying to gain a little AP. I haven’t seen this many Lowbie Ranks in sPvP since Launch. Don’t worry JS, they’ll all be gone before you know it.

Yeah, numbers are so much rising that queueing solo takes a long time, even during prime time, and you end up against premades anyway…so many people playing.
Oh yeah, but hotjoin population is all that matters, gogo pvers farming achievements for the ap chests!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Volrath.1473:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I just think it’s cute that we have this thread going concurrently with a thread that’s saying Necro’s have no survivability, death shroud is horrible, and that Necro’s, in order to be viable, need to start PvP with life force.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-you-want-us-to-use-Deathshroud/

:)

Have you seen the video?
Have you played the game for more that 5 min in the last month? and i mean PLAYED not logged in to run some “tests”…
Can you share the number of players that stopped logging in in the last 3-6 month?

No, I can’t see the video in China (DID YOU READ MY FIRST POST???)

Yes, I actually play with a lot of the players on the forums, and see them in queue.

Our numbers are actually on the rise.

GG!

RE?

Chap, you are the dev that i sympathies the most and i don’t like to argue with you but I also dont like to be mocked at! you called this thread “cute” since Necros are complaining about the “nerfs” on a different thread -_-’ even though you had not seen the video nor tested what was stated here in game.

About the numbers, i find it hard to believe, i’m on my third guild atm since the other too simply stoped playing for good. I see 3 ppl from those guilds still playing.

Also the Heart of the mist is a desert and spvp servers are less and less populated, tournaments take longer to pop and the queues in wvwvw are no more…

Unless every one is PvEing it feels like were loosing allot of players and fast.

Also I’m sorry if i sounded rude, Things aren’t going very well (personal) and my attitude was compulsive.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I just think it’s cute that we have this thread going concurrently with a thread that’s saying Necro’s have no survivability, death shroud is horrible, and that Necro’s, in order to be viable, need to start PvP with life force.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-you-want-us-to-use-Deathshroud/

:)

While some might have been saying that it was not the intention when I started the thread.

Necros DO have decent survivability when they have >50% lifeforce built up, the problem is besides a exploit (Minion killing) there’s no way to build up that lifeforce to bunker a point at the BEGINNING of the game. Having lifeforce across the board is probably a bad option but many brought up that warriors have Adrenaline tied to a heal that they can pop at the beginning of the match to gain some Adrenaline so there are creative options that can be used so that glass cannon necros don’t have access to huge lifeforce at the beginning of matches.

It would be nice to be able to have the option to soak damage early if I feel that’s my role in the team.

Pandabro.8743:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I just think it’s cute that we have this thread going concurrently with a thread that’s saying Necro’s have no survivability, death shroud is horrible, and that Necro’s, in order to be viable, need to start PvP with life force.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/So-you-want-us-to-use-Deathshroud/

:)

While some might have been saying that it was not the intention when I started the thread.

Necros DO have decent survivability when they have >50% lifeforce built up, the problem is besides a exploit (Minion killing) there’s no way to build up that lifeforce to bunker a point at the BEGINNING of the game. Having lifeforce across the board is probably a bad option but many brought up that warriors have Adrenaline tied to a heal that they can pop at the beginning of the match to gain some Adrenaline so there are creative options that can be used so that glass cannon necros don’t have access to huge lifeforce at the beginning of matches.

It would be nice to be able to have the option to soak damage early if I feel that’s my role in the team.

I still don’t understand what is the issue here. If the necro is focused on the beginning of the match where he has no life force he does not have good decent ways to survive. That is true. But if we are talking about class mechanic specifics here then look at the mesmer… he could had used distortion but under the focus for more then 1 second he’ll still go down just as easily, because he only gets the 3 second distortion once he has clones up… which he won’t have at the beginning of the match.

Every single class is vulnerable to stealth openers as well. Especially if moa is used.

Med.6150:

Cause you obviously can deal damage with Mist Form and it also has a 10s cool down.

Guys, stop the nonsense.

Yeah, because you have to build up Mist Form.

Also, Endure Pain.
Your whole argument is invalid.

Med.6150:

Cause you obviously can deal damage with Mist Form and it also has a 10s cool down.

Guys, stop the nonsense.

No. But what is the point in here it’s not the deathshroud but Spectral Armor. And that has a lot of cooldown. “Stop the nonsense”.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We just increased the death shroud for the main hand skills this patch, which therefore should therefore reduce the Necro’s reliance on spectral skills for sustainability……?

Did you read the notes RonPierce?

Scepter LF generation is still pretty terrible, as the only LF generation it has is scepter ability 3, and its pretty bad as an ability (maybe add torment to it?) since it has 0 synergy with condi builds. Adding maybe 2% LF on the final attack in the auto attack chain of scepter would go a LONG way in addressing condi build LF generation problems.

Dagger off hand doesn’t have any LF generation what so ever. Possibly adding LF generation to the number 4 skill so that there is at least some consistency here, as every weapon has at least one LF generating ability except dagger off-hand.

Warhorn does have LF generation with the number 4 skill, but that requires us to be in melee range, where a condi necro doesn’t want to be. It is also a very small amount at 1% per hit.

Focus has good LF generation with the number 4 skill, but focus has no synergy with condi builds at all (its a power weapon).

Staff auto attack is still extremely unreliable for generating LF, has no synergy with condi builds, and the projectile is still to slow/easily side stepped to be considered reliable.

Right now, condition builds still rely greatly on spectral skills to generate life force. They have no choice as there are currently no other alternatives.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Batmang.5421:

I get the impression that the people asking for lifeforce at the beginning of games have failed to utilize the class to it’s fullest potential which makes it a L2P issue.

In the case of stealth-bursts this is not the case. The only thing a necromancer can do is plague-form to survive such a burst. Also as a guardian myself, it is very hard to survive stealth openers. It’s more about lucky dodging and block-prediciton than anyting else. In this specific scenario it has nothing to do with L2P.

Simple fact is necro have the ability to mitigate A TON of burst as shown in the video. Very close in comparison to a lot of other classes that have similar damage output. I’m personally not against stealth openers because I find it interesting but that’s just my opinion. My post was not to justify stealth openers but to provide evidence that necro has the ability to mitigate burst damage.

For normal bursts absolutely, but not for stealth-openers. There is no viable way to generate life-force before. Only thing you can do is put marks and you hope you gonna survive it.

well actually you do. with the flesh golem trick you can start the game with 10% which will still help mitigate a lot of damage when using the combo in the video. Like I said, I’m not defending stealth openers. That issue deserves its own thread.

Doesn’t that mean you have to play with golem during the match or is there a chance to pick another ultimate? Because you know . . . plague- and lich-form are ten times better.

Noo xD I think a few players need to actually learn about this ‘glitch’ or ‘exploit’ or ‘hidden mechanic’. The 10% life force generation is a trick where you summon the golem (don’t use it’s charge skill which puts the elite on cd, FYI summoning a golem does not put your elite on cd but upon summoning gives you 10% LF) then switch to your preferred elite => plague form or lich form. Now you have 10% LF at the beginning of the match and then an elite other than golem (and the elite won’t be on a cd). You have to do this within the 10s frame though before skills are locked.

I leave this here for Mr. Sharp who actually think everything is a L2P issue:
http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/434824077

And now i am curious about your answer. When you look at the survivability/damage output is there something wrong?

Btw.: Beta playing Ele vs Fotm Necro (sry Helseth)

HPLT.7132:

I leave this here for Mr. Sharp who actually think everything is a L2P issue:
http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/434824077

And now i am curious about your answer. When you look at the survivability/damage output is there something wrong?

Btw.: Beta playing Ele vs Fotm Necro (sry Helseth)

dat eyeroll after he bursts.. lol love it

Batmang.5421:

I did not post this to stir the pot. I posted this to show people some of the defensive capability of necro. I dare to say most people would have no idea this was a possibility even after reading the patch notes. Keep in mind there is an icd on the life force generation from spectral armor which unless its bugged, would actually be stronger in damage mitigation (in some scenarios) than whats show in that video.

If you weren’t attempting to stir the pot than you wouldn’t have been claiming l2play not more than two posts later. Your video is horrifyingly one sided. It’s perhaps the worst example of gameplay to illustrate a point I have yet to see.

Essentially you told the Necro to buff himself completely and then hit him with a class that doesn’t deal with burst and you didn’t use any of your actual burst skills.

Tip 1: Any semi decent elementalist would have immediately used his kb on a necro in ds, now the necro is dead.

Tip 2: Air form is the absolute worst thing to ever use pre and post patch against a necro because it relies on consistent damage and not the massive hits which is the main issue.

These are well known and obvious issues that you know as a high-level pvp player. Two of our podcasters went out and tested after watching this little joke of a video. They did two tests.

Test 1: Spectral armor plus 40 percent DS just traits against an ele – Necro started off with 40 percent LF and 21k health – Ele pulled off a true burst using Fire into Air and even landed a Dragon’s tooth – Necro ate 9.5k worth of damage and took a hit of 1.5k to his health.

Test 2: Spectral armor on CD no prot – 40 percent DS – Ele pulls of same rotation – Necro ends at 3.8k health.

When asked if they can now test it with spectral armor up – DS up ,and start with a KB they replied with why the Necro would be dead. Because he has no DS at that point.

That is the reality Blinx, and if your example was designed to prove that we have viable utilities then the video would have shown how simple it is to avoid all of those mitigations with a simple KB or stun.

In the end, the problem lies in the fact that Necros put out too much damage and the changes made have done nothing to improve their survivability. Any knockback or stun immediately locks us out of DS if we were in it. So while the Necro is the ultimate snowball class with weakness/prot/stability on you won’t be able to kill them, they can be easily dismantled with a simple KB.

Damage needs to be brought down, and the necro needs an option to survive or get out of fight that doesn’t rely solely on Death Shroud.

Bas.7406:

Damage needs to be brought down, and the necro needs an option to survive or get out of fight that doesn’t rely solely on Death Shroud

Agree, but can we also say that it is primarily the condition pressure that should be brought down? It would be unfortunate if power build damage was made less viable.

Sepreh.5924:

Bas.7406:

Damage needs to be brought down, and the necro needs an option to survive or get out of fight that doesn’t rely solely on Death Shroud

Agree, but can we also say that it is primarily the condition pressure that should be brought down? It would be unfortunate if power build damage was made less viable.

No, power build damage with wells and DS 1 is obscene. Go run a dagger/wh well build, spectral grasp them into your wells pop wh 5 and then flip to ds and hammer them with Life Blast. They are slowed with cripple in melee range, and you can absolutely wreck them. MY LB against a guy with protection on hits for 3-4k.

Now their is a tradeoff considering you are in melee range with no escapes and can die. You are correct in that the sheer volume of aoe condition spam from everyone is too much, but that’s going to be the case as long as most classes have access to massive aoe damage that equals the same as single target damage.

You also have to have significant condition pressure to offset the boon fest from guardians and Ele’s.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Acchievement rewards aren’t that worth at the moment, so I doubt players are going for them. Maybe for dailies, which are less time-consuming, but that’s it. I’ve been spending as much time in pve as in pvp since the game is out, and I have about 300-400 acchievement points from pvp, out of my 5500 total. I’m excluding dailies, but, yeah…

What’s your /age? I’m right at 1100 Hours and I now spend more time doing PvEasy than sPvP (PvP in GW2 sucks compared to GW1 PvP). And I have over 800 sPvP Achievement Points. The AP’s I earned from sPvP make up roughly 10% of my 8100 Achievement Points + Multiple Champ Titles etc….

I can’t find you on the Leaderboards Diogo…Do you participate in Hotjoin matches only?

Bas.7406:

Batmang.5421:

I did not post this to stir the pot. I posted this to show people some of the defensive capability of necro. I dare to say most people would have no idea this was a possibility even after reading the patch notes. Keep in mind there is an icd on the life force generation from spectral armor which unless its bugged, would actually be stronger in damage mitigation (in some scenarios) than whats show in that video.

If you weren’t attempting to stir the pot than you wouldn’t have been claiming l2play not more than two posts later. Your video is horrifyingly one sided. It’s perhaps the worst example of gameplay to illustrate a point I have yet to see.

Essentially you told the Necro to buff himself completely and then hit him with a class that doesn’t deal with burst and you didn’t use any of your actual burst skills.

Tip 1: Any semi decent elementalist would have immediately used his kb on a necro in ds, now the necro is dead.

Tip 2: Air form is the absolute worst thing to ever use pre and post patch against a necro because it relies on consistent damage and not the massive hits which is the main issue.

These are well known and obvious issues that you know as a high-level pvp player. Two of our podcasters went out and tested after watching this little joke of a video. They did two tests.

Test 1: Spectral armor plus 40 percent DS just traits against an ele – Necro started off with 40 percent LF and 21k health – Ele pulled off a true burst using Fire into Air and even landed a Dragon’s tooth – Necro ate 9.5k worth of damage and took a hit of 1.5k to his health.

Test 2: Spectral armor on CD no prot – 40 percent DS – Ele pulls of same rotation – Necro ends at 3.8k health.

When asked if they can now test it with spectral armor up – DS up ,and start with a KB they replied with why the Necro would be dead. Because he has no DS at that point.

That is the reality Blinx, and if your example was designed to prove that we have viable utilities then the video would have shown how simple it is to avoid all of those mitigations with a simple KB or stun.

In the end, the problem lies in the fact that Necros put out too much damage and the changes made have done nothing to improve their survivability. Any knockback or stun immediately locks us out of DS if we were in it. So while the Necro is the ultimate snowball class with weakness/prot/stability on you won’t be able to kill them, they can be easily dismantled with a simple KB.

Damage needs to be brought down, and the necro needs an option to survive or get out of fight that doesn’t rely solely on Death Shroud.

This poster is sadly misinformed. This is a burst combo that can near 1 shot the mass majority of builds right now. A simple knock-back would have done nothing, because 15k in damage from the combo took next to nothing off of life force, and you can pop shroud while knocked down, and mitigate all that damage.

Air has always been one of the staples of s/d ele builds, as it provides good spike in combination with the arcane spells and decent sustain from range. It is not by any means bad vs. necros and even more so after the patch, it allows you to avoid the large amounts of weakness necros put out.

Fire Burst, while good, is alot more easily avoidable, and the likely hood of landing a full fire combo is next to none, and adds, i’d say approximately 8-10k damage onto the combo, assuming most attacks don’t crit. Which by all means does enough damage combined to kill a bunker guardian.

didn’t you guys know that knockbacks remove all deathshroud? idiotheads need to stop stirring the pot.

Bas.7406:

Sepreh.5924:

Bas.7406:

Damage needs to be brought down, and the necro needs an option to survive or get out of fight that doesn’t rely solely on Death Shroud

Agree, but can we also say that it is primarily the condition pressure that should be brought down? It would be unfortunate if power build damage was made less viable.

No, power build damage with wells and DS 1 is obscene. Go run a dagger/wh well build, spectral grasp them into your wells pop wh 5 and then flip to ds and hammer them with Life Blast. They are slowed with cripple in melee range, and you can absolutely wreck them. MY LB against a guy with protection on hits for 3-4k.

Now their is a tradeoff considering you are in melee range with no escapes and can die. You are correct in that the sheer volume of aoe condition spam from everyone is too much, but that’s going to be the case as long as most classes have access to massive aoe damage that equals the same as single target damage.

You also have to have significant condition pressure to offset the boon fest from guardians and Ele’s.

That makes sense and running both a GC necro and a power necro I have definitely hit heavy life blasts. I guess I was moreso talking about the damage of dagger which I know is a niche weapon but it feels like the opportunity cost is significantly high (close range, single target) to justify a fairly decent base damage. This is especially important with certain builds that may be made more viable in the future. For example, I have been messing around with a cleric’s build that can tank damage somewhat well and does not *hit too kitten dagger auto but does not do so little damage that it cannot take anyone down.

Sorry that was kind of a ramble but does that make sense? I’m kind of out of place posting in the PvP forum but have been thinking about this recently

• ps. I edited this post 4 times. It is replacing “hit too hard…on” with “hit too kitten”. Haha

Follidus.8027:

didn’t you guys know that knockbacks remove all deathshroud? idiotheads need to stop stirring the pot.

jeez, should have known that updraft would kill necros with full DS by making them panic and press their F1 button!

I will just LOL.

Shananigans.8412:

This poster is sadly misinformed. This is a burst combo that can near 1 shot the mass majority of builds right now. A simple knock-back would have done nothing, because 15k in damage from the combo took next to nothing off of life force, and you can pop shroud while knocked down, and mitigate all that damage.

Air has always been one of the staples of s/d ele builds, as it provides good spike in combination with the arcane spells and decent sustain from range. It is not by any means bad vs. necros and even more so after the patch, it allows you to avoid the large amounts of weakness necros put out.

Fire Burst, while good, is alot more easily avoidable, and the likely hood of landing a full fire combo is next to none, and adds, i’d say approximately 8-10k damage onto the combo, assuming most attacks don’t crit. Which by all means does enough damage combined to kill a bunker guardian.

Again, you completely missed the point. His video showed two guys staring at each other with the Necro activating Spectral Armor and casting ds before ever initiating. The Necro then allowed the guy to initiate all his air attacks. I simply pointed out that if you wanted to truly show you would use the actual hard hitting attacks.
Hitting someone for 2k 1.1k, 2k is not an instant burst like an 8k Fire grab.

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it. I am sure you must have missed the part where I very clearly pointed out that all he had to do was kb him in DS and he loses ds.

We all know Air is the most common one because you can hit someone quicker and it’s more difficult to dodge. That doesn’t mean that fire doesn’t hit harder. While you are correct the likelihood of someone landing a serious of fire attacks is very very minimal it faces the same likelihood as that situation in the video describes. That would be like me making a video of me blowing all my CD on an Ele in mist form and then posting it saying see how op elementalists are.

Shar.3402:

Follidus.8027:

didn’t you guys know that knockbacks remove all deathshroud? idiotheads need to stop stirring the pot.

jeez, should have known that updraft would kill necros with full DS by making them panic and press their F1 button!

Two comments that completely miss their point in their attempt to feel superior. Using a knockback on a Necromancer who is in death shroud, knocks the necro out of deathshroud for 10 seconds. It doesn’t remove the LF gained, nor does it actually kill a player. It simply puts deathshroud on cooldown.

If you use a knockback and the player is not in Death Shroud we can pop Death Shroud just as an Elementalist can switch attunements. But and here is the key phrase you are missing IF THE NECRO IS ALREADY IN DEATH SHROUD then a knock back and I believe a stun and but not dazes will knock the necro out of death shroud and place it on a cooldown.

Bas.7406:

Hitting someone for 2k 1.1k, 2k is not an instant burst like an 8k Fire grab.

Earth-Air rotation

Earthquake > 2k+
Rock Barrier Hurl> 1k+
Lightning Flash> 2k+
Electric discharge (Swap to Air)> 2k+
Lightning Strike> 2k+
Arcane Wave> 2k+
Arcane Blast> 2k+
RTL> 2k+

If you land Earthquake > Lightning flash
Most of the rest falls into place because its near instant.

Firegrab has to crit on a burning target in order to achieve the damage you mentioned and it’s not instant.

What makes their state balanced in your opinion i guess. Did you see how easily he can kill the ele? Did you kittening see it? He is not supposed to be tanky he is a condition bomb. A 10 sec cd is nothing, what your proposed rotation for an ele to kill him when you start with a knock back (e.g. updraft) as an ele.

And 8k Firegrabs takes preparation, skill, luck and timing. You need to inflict the target with burning, you need to have fury up and you need to crit. In addition Firegrab is fairly hard to land. That’s how balancing actually look and not mindless spamming autoattack or staff marks until burning is critting and after that pushing the fear button in deathshroud and wait until he dies.

A. Firegrab will hit for 8k once in a month, maybe.
B. You Stay in DS if you’re cc’d
C. That constant 2k dmg hits can actually be used in less time that it take to cast a firegrab. They are all instant cast.

Bas.7406:

Shar.3402:

Follidus.8027:

didn’t you guys know that knockbacks remove all deathshroud? idiotheads need to stop stirring the pot.

jeez, should have known that updraft would kill necros with full DS by making them panic and press their F1 button!

Two comments that completely miss their point in their attempt to feel superior. Using a knockback on a Necromancer who is in death shroud, knocks the necro out of deathshroud for 10 seconds. It doesn’t remove the LF gained, nor does it actually kill a player. It simply puts deathshroud on cooldown.

If you use a knockback and the player is not in Death Shroud we can pop Death Shroud just as an Elementalist can switch attunements. But and here is the key phrase you are missing IF THE NECRO IS ALREADY IN DEATH SHROUD then a knock back and I believe a stun and but not dazes will knock the necro out of death shroud and place it on a cooldown.

i cant understand this post..someone explain pls

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it.

Is this a new change? or maybe i spend a whole year in this game and didn’t know about this one.

Can someone please test this and correct me if i’m wrong.

Two things:

1 – thanks for the video proof that Ele’s instant cast burst is indeed in much need of a nerf, a la added cast/flight times (though I wouldn’t rule out deletion; see 100nades)

2 – that poor Necro had to use two skills to accomplish what every other class can do with a single skill

also, I’m not sure how telling your friend to hold up their shield so you can run into it face first as fast as you can constitutes as a “test”…

QtHman.6502:

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it.

Is this a new change? or maybe i spend a whole year in this game and didn’t know about this one.

Can someone please test this and correct me if i’m wrong.

I can tell you for sure that the dodge train golem (that pushes you back) and the engineer npc (which knocks you back with rifle) don’t kick you out of DS.
I can tell you for sure that knockdown (earthquake) doesn’t kick you out of DS.

hackks.3687:

Two things:

1 – thanks for the video proof that Ele’s instant cast burst is indeed in much need of a nerf, a la added cast/flight times (though I wouldn’t rule out deletion; see 100nades)

2 – that poor Necro had to use two skills to accomplish what every other class can do with a single skill

also, I’m not sure how telling your friend to hold up their shield so you can run into it face first as fast as you can constitutes as a “test”…

It’s not in all reality. It’s a joke of a test, but according to the tpvp “elite” whatever “test” they run is considered factual evidence. Therefore you are I are not worthy to point out the complete ridiculous of the test.

Shar.3402:

QtHman.6502:

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it.

Is this a new change? or maybe i spend a whole year in this game and didn’t know about this one.

Can someone please test this and correct me if i’m wrong.

I can tell you for sure that the dodge train golem (that pushes you back) and the engineer npc (which knocks you back with rifle) don’t kick you out of DS.
I can tell you for sure that knockdown (earthquake) doesn’t kick you out of DS.

I know lol i just find it funny <3

Shar.3402:

QtHman.6502:

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it.

Is this a new change? or maybe i spend a whole year in this game and didn’t know about this one.

Can someone please test this and correct me if i’m wrong.

I can tell you for sure that the dodge train golem (that pushes you back) and the engineer npc (which knocks you back with rifle) don’t kick you out of DS.
I can tell you for sure that knockdown (earthquake) doesn’t kick you out of DS.

Unless it was fixed in the last patch Updraft, The Necro Golem, Flamethrower push back and the warrior stomp all knocked and put DS on CD.

Its true though..the only conclusion i get from this video is eles burst is in dire need of nerf.
I mean god.. 9 button presses in less than a second for instant melee single target damage damage is definately a priority compared to lets say 1200 range undistinguishable massive huge aoe cond pressure of necro.
And its certainly more importtant than the fact that necro autoattakcs a mesm once and eats half his hp pool

Avead.5760:

Its true though..the only conclusion i get from this video is eles burst is in dire need of nerf.
I mean god.. 9 button presses in less than a second for instant melee single target damage damage is definately a priority compared to lets say 1200 range undistinguishable massive huge aoe cond pressure of necro.
And its certainly more importtant than the fact that necro autoattakcs a mesm once and eats half his hp pool

oh my, I think smell a hint of sarcasm underneath that thick layer of hyperbole… savory!