Guild Wars 2

On reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/46ez8w/upcoming_changes_for_pvp_league_season_2/?ref=search_posts

On Blog:
https://competitive.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-changes-for-pvp-league-season-two

Please discuss!

Quoting:
“[–]pardonmemynachos 0 points an hour ago
The desertion change has HUGE potential for abuse. A five-man team could just appoint one person to “take the fall” if they’re losing; that one person DCs and the rest of the team doesn’t lose pips and keeps their win streak intact."

Sorry for this part… but well. HF

I like the changes, they are going same route like wvw and new pve HoT maps = dead in few weeks

Jourdelune.7456:

On reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/46ez8w/upcoming_changes_for_pvp_league_season_2/?ref=search_posts

On Blog:
https://competitive.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-changes-for-pvp-league-season-two

Please discuss!

Quoting:
“[–]pardonmemynachos 0 points an hour ago
The desertion change has HUGE potential for abuse. A five-man team could just appoint one person to “take the fall” if they’re losing; that one person DCs and the rest of the team doesn’t lose pips and keeps their win streak intact."

Sorry for this part… but well. HF

it says 5 man team, not party. whether they are actually distinguishing the diff we’ll see. if its a party, then yeah it could be a prob like u note. if its a team, which could be 5 soloq, u’ll be hard pressed to convince me to be the random fall guy for u random suckas

Still nothing to punish AFK players, dunno if it’s doable but AFK players are a huge problem indeed

Sorry, the blog got a 404 error. Someone pull out the information.

So Google Cache to the rescue:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mIWPitU-2VUJ:https://competitive.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-changes-for-pvp-league-season-two+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

I did cut and paste here… but… google cache is a better read.

FEBRUARY 18, 2016
Upcoming Changes for PvP League Season Two

With PvP League season two beginning on February 23, it’s time to sit down and go through all of the changes that you can expect to see in the upcoming season. We’ve gone over several changes that are coming to season two already in one of our previous forum posts, but we’d like to reiterate those changes here again, as well as go over some additional items that we haven’t touched on yet, in order to bring everyone up to speed prior to the start of the season.

Matchmaking

As we’ve mentioned previously, Ranked matchmaking in PvP during season two will now be based primarily on your current division placement and a predetermined “pip range” that extends from that spot. We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. Then we’ll find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level. For players that queue as a pre-made group, the pip range that we’ll use to find you both teammates and opponents will be based off of the player with the highest division placement in your group (which, as a reminder, is a change that we’ve already introduced to the game prior to the end of season one).

There is an additional matchmaking change that we’ll be making which will affect a specific type of match-up:

Five-person premade groups will never be matched up against a group made up of five solo players.
Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season. That being said, even though the instances of this specific type of matchup occurring were actually very rare during season one, we still felt that matchmaking would be improved overall if we made sure that this type of match-up was simply no longer possible in future seasons.

Lastly, we are pleased to report that matchmaking wait times have been reduced by an average of four minutes for both Ranked and Unranked play for season two.

Pip Distribution and Breakdown Changes

For this next season, we’ll be adding a breakdown at the end of each match that explains how and why players gain or lose pips. In addition to adding this pip breakdown, we’ve also made some adjustments to how many pips players can earn or lose in general. These changes are all being made in conjunction with the new matchmaking adjustments for Ranked play, which are all intended to make leagues much more reflective of individual player skill.

Beginning with season two, pips will be distributed in the following increments:

A victory will award a player with +1 pip.
A defeat will award a player with -1 pip.
Players who desert matches (such as by abandoning the match or disconnecting) will automatically be given a “desertion,” which counts as a defeat and will cost that player -1 pip.
If a player from your team deserts the match, and your team is then defeated, you’ll lose no pips for that match (and the match won’t count as a loss should you be on a win streak).
At the end of season one, our data showed that the vast majority of all matches ended in +1/-1 pip distributions. When you combine this information with the various changes that we are making to matchmaking (such as no longer using MMR as the primary matchmaking consideration) then the former pip distribution table simply is no longer relevant. In short, these changes to pip distribution are just one part of the ongoing direction that PvP Leagues are taking, and are ones that we feel will ultimately result in much better and clearer PvP League seasons moving forward.

Win Streaks & Comebacks

If you’re concerned about no longer being able to earn multiple points off of victories, then have no fear: we’re bringing a “win streak” system to PvP Leagues for season two! Here’s how it’ll work:

After three consecutive wins, you’ll be awarded an additional +1 pip for each subsequent win (including the match that you start a win streak on too).
If you lose while on a win streak, your win streak status will reset to zero, and you’ll need to win three more matches in a row again in order to start up another win streak.
Win streaks don’t have a time limit to them, so if you log off while on a win streak, and then log back in at any point later, you’ll still be on that win streak.
In addition to win streaks, we’re also going to be adding a system for “comeback pips.” If you find yourself on a particularly tough losing streak, then you’ll have a chance to gain an extra pip back as soon as you manage to break that streak. After three consecutive losses, you’ll be awarded an extra +1 pip on your next win.

Minor Tier/Division Adjustments

For season two, we’ll also be making some minor adjustments to the sizes of some of the lower tiers and divisions. In particular, we’re planning on making the following changes:

Changing the size of Amber tiers from five pips each to three pips.
Changing the number of tiers in Amber from three to five.
Changing the size of Emerald tiers from five pips each to four pips.
These are additional tweaks that we’ll be making in accordance with our larger matchmaking changes for season two, as we believe that there’ll be some particularly challenging matchups for players this season compared to season one. We’ve adjusted these tiers and divisions in order to bring this part of PvP Leagues in line with season two’s other improvements.

Counting Down to Season Two & Beyond

In addition to the changes above, there are several smaller updates that will be making their way to PvP on February 23. To name just a few:

Some minor balance tweaks will be coming for the start of the new season
All PvP Daily Achievements will be able to be completed in either Conquest or Stronghold
We are officially replacing the PvP League term “points” with the more commonly used “pips”
We realize that the weeks following the end of season one have left a bit of a gap for players who wish to continue to queue for Ranked play. We share your eagerness to jump back into the fray as soon as possible and we’re currently exploring some ideas for how future off-seasons will work. In the meantime, though, the countdown to the start of season two continues—so keep honing your skills and experimenting with new builds, and we’ll see you all on the battlefield soon!

“Five-person premade groups will never be matched up against a group made up of five solo players”

About this is not really clear if only 5 vs 1-1-1-1-1 is not possible anymore or other combos like 5 vs 1-1-1-1-2 or 5 vs 2-2-1 or 5 vs 3-1-1

I hope They considered more combos, but it sounds more only 5 vs 1-1-1-1-1.

And well is something but other combos are really unbalanced in the same way.

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

you cant allow full premades stomp solo players just because every other e$ports game does that, gw2 is not a moba or shooter game

Guys i feel a bit terrified with some parts of this changes.

At the end of seasson one i was at the end of diamond divison. In matches i was playing almost all the time with ppl from legendary dvision and now i will propably have to fight legends in amber in seasson 2. At that time i had almost all the time +1/-1 win ratio.

What if i will have the same +1/-1 in sapphire seasson 2. What if old legendary divsion players will have the same win ratio or guys who stoped in sapphire? Can be possible that if you don’t extreamly improve from last seasson you will be stuck in 3th dvision even if you are legendary skill material?

I hope somebody who is smarter then me and better undestands these changes wil prove that this situation is not possible. I am begging for answers.

P.S sorry for my English ;/

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

Any way we can get a preview of the class balances tweaks? If not, and I understand if we can’t, could we at least get a post explaining WHY tweaks were made? I know the game is huge and complicated, but I’m always interested in why a change was made or prioritized over another.

Thanks so much:D!

I’ll offer a prediction for season 2, the ESL (and other high level) teams will queue in ranked as 4 players rather than 5 to get around this change, and due to the imbalance inherent in 4 people who have synergistic builds and are in team speak going up against 5 PUGS will continue to have an unfair advantage. I’m not worried about the lower divisions due to the positive changes you guys have announced… I’m talking about dealing with this at Diamond and Legendary.

Queue watching will also be a huge deal (even more so than in Season 1), as anyone who’s in a high level division will be working very hard to avoid getting matched up against the ESL teams.

“Some minor balance tweaks will be coming for the start of the new season.”
^-^

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

Honestly Evan is not acceptable going against a full premade in 2-1-1-1 or with another unbalanced roster size.

Can you explain why like soloer i should lose 1 pip or interrupt my win streak if this happens?

If 5 people realize they have a long queue, they go in smaller grp size, easy, and if they want to train like full premade they organize games with other full premade, like every other decent team in this game do.

Full premade against a soloer or semi soloer is not training, is pure farming.

At least i would add 2-1-1-1 config with 1-1-1-1-1

with 2-2-1 or 3-1-1 or 3-2 you have a bit better coordination (it’s not like a full premade ofc but is a bit better).

philheat.3956:

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

Honestly Evan is not acceptable going against a full premade in 2-1-1-1 or with another unbalanced roster size.

Can you explain why like soloer i should lose 1 pip or interrupt my win streak if this happens?

If 5 people realize they have a long queue, they go in smaller grp size, easy, and if they want to train like full premade they organize games with other full premade, like every other decent team in this game do.

Full premade against a soloer or semi soloer is not training, is pure farming.

At least i would add 2-1-1-1 config with 1-1-1-1-1

with 2-2-1 or 3-1-1 or 3-2 you have a bit better coordination (it’s not like a full premade ofc but is a bit better).

They need to come up with an incentive for more teams to be complete 5 man teams. Right now, outside of tournaments, there is no real incentive to join up and maintain a complete 5 man roster.

Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season.

this is an extremely interesting statistic. evan, do you have the capability to filter the sample further to matches only including at least 1 legendary division player? is it interesting? were legendary soloers being farmed by esl teams on the rare occasion that these matches occurred?

I’d be interested in more statistics about season 1 as well, but I can tell you from my own experience in Legendary division for the final 2.5 weeks of the season that there actually weren’t that many 5-person premades in the matches I played. I speculate that the reason is that the top players quickly realized that the matchmaker unduly penalized them (giving them an inflated MMR) for being in a 5 person group, and that they would win more matches as a 3 person group (or even solo queue) than as a 5 person group. I do remember going up against 2 and 3 person groups of ESL level players from the same ESL team, and those were very difficult matches for me to win in a 1-1-1-1-1 pug or even a 2-1-1-1 pug.

Now, in season 2, with MMR not a factor in terms of finding opponents, there won’t be a disincentive to group, in fact the opposite is true, it will be a bigger advantage to group up with (and use teamspeak) other people of your MMR level (or higher!) as long as you all are in the same division.

The question is, will it be anoth to save the game or at least the season? I doubt it.

It would be very nice if the game would show us our MMR level… and nicer still if it would show us the MMR level of the other players in the match.

Also, will the PVP leaderboard be reset and reactivated for Season 2? Please?

Evan Lesh.3295:

philheat.3956:

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

Honestly Evan is not acceptable going against a full premade in 2-1-1-1 or with another unbalanced roster size.

Can you explain why like soloer i should lose 1 pip or interrupt my win streak if this happens?

If 5 people realize they have a long queue, they go in smaller grp size, easy, and if they want to train like full premade they organize games with other full premade, like every other decent team in this game do.

Full premade against a soloer or semi soloer is not training, is pure farming.

At least i would add 2-1-1-1 config with 1-1-1-1-1

with 2-2-1 or 3-1-1 or 3-2 you have a bit better coordination (it’s not like a full premade ofc but is a bit better).

We can increase the size restriction, but queue times are a limiting factor. If the number of premades in the queue is healthy, then we can discuss making more strict premade rules.

The configuration limits the size difference between the largest premades. Configured currently at 3, a 5 vs 2 or 4 vs 1 is the largest gap possible. If we lower the cutoff to 2, then 5v3, 4v2, and 3v1 become the largest gaps possible.

What do you mean with premade?

Full premade? Because the main issue is coordinated ts team against nothing/semi nothing

When a premade starts to be a 3 men +, their roster size has a huge impact on winning chance.

For this reason a 3men + never would go against a not 3men+

I can understand there are queue issues but players always have the option to go in smaller grp and have smaller queue

So it’s not a real issue, and you save a lot the quality of the match.

Anet should prioritize smaller grp for the simple reason a full premade learn nothing stomping soloers and have always the chance to organize pvt games with other full premade without queues and with very high quality.

Soloers or semi soloers don’t have this option. And even pro player prefer to go in solo/duo instead of going in queue in 5, because is a better streaming content and better practice for them.

Cool stuff, actually looking forward to the 23rd!

I think S2 will be much less salty than S1, which was McDonald’s Fries levels of salt. ^^’

If the small balance changes are decent and If ANet reacts fast to any possible important issues (concerning balance or the league system in general), I think I’ll be playing quite a bit again.

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

The root cause of this is simple. You are trying to merge GW1’s Random and Team Arena into One Ranked Arena in GW2. Unless you separate them, this problem will continue to cripple GW2’s PvP System.

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

yep, it must be quite easy to get a job / keep a job at Anet, the barometer for competence is not set very high…

More like the lack of devs that are also consistent pvpers who give a kitten about this mode. If they were into pvp much, they wouldnt allow any kind of combos of premades vs soloQers at ALL.

Soul.9280:

It would be very nice if the game would show us our MMR level… and nicer still if it would show us the MMR level of the other players in the match.

Also, will the PVP leaderboard be reset and reactivated for Season 2? Please?

Since PIPs will be the new matchmaking, your MMR is essentially shown as your division.

I swear to god, some people here are so dense. Evan said they can’t add any additional restrictions yet, it would potentially result in big queue times.

Full premades weren’t invincible last season and now people are complaining about 4 player premades. Just learn to communicate. Speak at the start of the match, you got a full minute to discuss strategy, use it.

Make a system that falls division and tier since the beginning of the division, the game will be very easy so can make many pips ….

Brockolosso.8316:

“Some minor balance tweaks will be coming for the start of the new season.”
^-^

expect nothing that would change the current meta

Supreme.3164:

Still nothing to punish AFK players, dunno if it’s doable but AFK players are a huge problem indeed

Seconded and AFKers are going to become a much bugger problem with this new system.

rchu.8945:

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

yep, it must be quite easy to get a job / keep a job at Anet, the barometer for competence is not set very high…

This is not the case, imo. What it seems like to me anyways is that a frequent player feedback was taken and given a pretty PR spin, without actually affecting anything of significance. Since apparently only 1% of matches are affected by this change, the effect on matchmaking overall is minimal, yet it looks as if “Anet listened”. What about other unfair matchups, particularly the ones that are only marginally less unfair, such kitten or 4 vs 2-1-1-1, you ask? Since duo and solo queue are likely the most frequent occurrence in the queue, restricting anything but the outlier 1% of matches affected by this change would result in long queue times for the exact group of players Anet wants to entice: 5 man queues. Them having short queue times is more important than creating even matchups. So chucking a duo queue vs a premade is still fair, because otherwise premades would have to wait a bit longer. I can’t see why the average solo or duo queue would care, but it’s an incentive for premades. They can queue knowing that they will continue to be rewarded with easy matchups vs many mixed queues and have reasonable queue times.
It seems to me that improving matchmaking quality was not really the goal here. This particular change seems to me to be an exercise in appeasing the player base at large with words, while not actually changing anything of significance for the preferred audience (premades) in practice.

That’s my cynical interpretation anyways. I’d be happy to be wrong, for obvious reasons.

You’re going to need more than some “minor” pvp balance changes to make pvp in this game any fun. The TTK in this game is ridiculous. People die in less than 2 seconds half the time. It’s no fun to play, and it’s DEFINITELY no fun to -watch- which is what you want for esports.

Evan Lesh.3295:

5 vs 2-1-1-1 is still allowed. The cutoff for roster size differences is configurable, but it is entirely possible that match quality and queue times would not be acceptable at all ladder positions if the acceptable spread were smaller.

Hi, can you provide information from season one on what percentage of matches were a full 5-man premade vs a non 5-man premade and what that win percentage was?

2 things that I still think need to be done

1: no changing characters during the “waiting for match to begin”. I would hope the the MMSystem is smart enough to try to balance out classes on each side as best it can, why would we then allow people to swap classes after? Even if the MMSystem doesn’t I feel swapping characters after looking at the teams is a lot like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors and switching your pick from Rock to Scissors when you see the other team is full of Paper.

2: Roll Stronghold into the regular queue with Conquest. Make it just another map. This eliminates some of the issues of completely unbalanced Stronghold teams because now they are forced to compete in Conquest as well and cant just farm 1 map type for wins. (as a side note to this, I would personally love if you added Spirit Watch to the map rotation too…)

Oh, since Im here I noticed this the other day…

Why do Druids start PvP matches with full Cel Av energy, assuming it was full to begin with when they queued up? At the start of a match Necros lose all Life Force so it seems odd to me that Druids Cel Av power wouldnt be drained as well.

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Are people not realizimg that premades will have a 10m+ queue time?

We know you solo casuals don’t care, but we can’t simply ignore premade’s who are either practicing for tournaments or choose to group up to avoid soloQ heros on their team. More importantly, fighting for those win streaks and getting Legendary quicker.

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

Saiyan.1704:

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

Well 5 vs 6 does seem unfair to me.

Saiyan.1704:

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Are people not realizimg that premades will have a 10m+ queue time?

We know you solo casuals don’t care, but we can’t simply ignore premade’s who are either practicing for tournaments or choose to group up to avoid soloQ heros on their team. More importantly, fighting for those win streaks and getting Legendary quicker.

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

As far as I’m concerned 10min que times for Diamond+ players is largely their own fault. People abusing broken system in season 1 to power pip their way up while at the same time pushing everyone else back down and then crying there are not enough people at the top of the hill with them. People and even teams grouping with low rank players (dont even get me started on them charging gold for carrying people up in ranks). People using 2nd and 3rd accounts, which are of course lower ranked. And back when they were tanking their MMR after reaching a point where didnt have to worry about losing pips for a lose.

Ya, its lonely at the top. Maybe if so many didnt buy, beg, cheat, and steal their way up a few more of us would be there too and your queue times wouldnt be so bad.

Takina.1739:

Saiyan.1704:

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Are people not realizimg that premades will have a 10m+ queue time?

We know you solo casuals don’t care, but we can’t simply ignore premade’s who are either practicing for tournaments or choose to group up to avoid soloQ heros on their team. More importantly, fighting for those win streaks and getting Legendary quicker.

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

As far as I’m concerned 10min que times for Diamond+ players is largely their own fault. People abusing broken system in season 1 to power pip their way up while at the same time pushing everyone else back down and then crying there are not enough people at the top of the hill with them. People and even teams grouping with low rank players (dont even get me started on them charging gold for carrying people up in ranks). People using 2nd and 3rd accounts, which are of course lower ranked. And back when they were tanking their MMR after reaching a point where didnt have to worry about losing pips for a lose.

Ya, its lonely at the top. Maybe if so many didnt buy, beg, cheat, and steal their way up a few more of us would be there too and your queue times wouldnt be so bad.

It’s not based on mmr anymore, nor can you bring an Amber in to get better matches… so no need to “tank” anything.

Finding 5 competent buddies to group up isn’t “system abuse”. It’s called going in with a premade because you don’t want solo players on your team.

I understand Legendary teams waiting. But teams who are Ruby on down shouldn’t deserve a 10m wait time that you all are apparently wanting.

What happens if you get disconnected but reconnect , does it count as a loss as soon as you disconnect or is it at the end of the match so you have a chance to reconnect and rejoin the match? What happens if you disconnect but your team manages to finish with a win will it count as a win for you?

Saiyan.1704:

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Are people not realizimg that premades will have a 10m+ queue time?

We know you solo casuals don’t care, but we can’t simply ignore premade’s who are either practicing for tournaments or choose to group up to avoid soloQ heros on their team. More importantly, fighting for those win streaks and getting Legendary quicker.

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

Oh, you’re right. It’s totally fine that premades should have it as easy as possible by being fed solo/duo combinations while also having the shortest possible queue times
If there actually are no 5, 4, or at least 3 mans to pit them against within a reasonable timeframe, then well… I don’t know what to tell you. Obviously they shouldn’t be ‘ignored’ but they shouldn’t get a free ride to the detriment of the majority either. A middle ground is needed and the changes do not achieve this.

Also, who seriously practices for tournaments against solo/duo combinations? And in ruby and below to boot? lol

And no. Pretty sure I stated specifically that I’m talking about matches such as 4-1 or 5 vs 2-1-1-1. In other words, the more common scenarios for matches perceived as ‘unfair’ than the comparatively rare 5 v 1-1-1-1-1.

So it’s not ok for premades to have long queue times but it’s ok for soloers to have their time wasted by being in 5v2-1-1-1 almost unwinnable matches?

If you want more people playing PvP, the answer is not to feed them as fodder to full premades.

If you have long queue times? Tough luck. Go find a team to scrim or something, there’s far more solo players than full 5 man teams and ANet should cater to the majority.

https://competitive.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-changes-for-pvp-league-season-two

This reads like this quarter’s intern wrote it.

It’s defensive, noncommittal, and hems and haws about your ‘data’ instead of reassuring us that you actually have a clue about the PvP gaming experience and what you’re supposed to do to make it a game fun to play, let alone competitive.

As we’ve mentioned previously, Ranked matchmaking in PvP during season two will now be based primarily on your current division placement and a predetermined “pip range” that extends from that spot.

There is an additional matchmaking change we’ll make that will affect a specific type of match-up:

Five-person premade groups will never be matched up against a group made up of five solo players.

Great, so I get matched up with pip farmers grinding matches instead of players who’ve played the game as long as I have. Definitely not what we asked for from match making.

Pro tip: perhaps try explaining how this change directly effects the mechanics and how it will address the specific issues it was intended for.

Obscure language is always intended to deceive. Your language is obscure. And the deception has been revealed thanks to Evan’s contribution that full-5 teams will still face 2-1-1-1 teams. It doesn’t matter if you intended to be deceptive, it’s being read as such at this point.

“Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season.

I honestly don’t give a kitten about your data anymore. Please stop telling us about it. And stop trying to disprove our playing experience with it. At this point, no one has any confidence in your ability to read said data anyways.

What’s more worrying is that you clearly don’t understand the issue if you think it’s an acceptable improvement to change the match making from no longer allowing 5v1-1-1-1-1 to 5v2-1-1-1. I mean seriously? That’s the equivalent of not even making a change.

Win Streaks and Comebacks

If you’re concerned about no longer being able to earn multiple points off of victories, then have no fear—we’re bringing a win streak system to PvP Leagues for season two! Here’s how it’ll work:

After three consecutive wins, you’ll be awarded one additional pip for each subsequent win (including the match that you start a win streak on, too).
If you lose while on a win streak, your win streak status will reset to zero, and you’ll need to win three more matches in a row again in order to start up another win streak.
Win streaks don’t have a time limit to them, so if you log off while on a win streak and then log back in at any point later, you’ll still be on that win streak.
In addition to win streaks, we’re also going to be adding a system for comeback pips. If you find yourself on a particularly tough losing streak, then you’ll have a chance to gain an extra pip back as soon as you manage to break that streak. After three consecutive losses, you’ll be awarded one extra pip on your next win.

So while we’re still going to be subjected to 5v2-1-1-1, aka absurd mismatches, we’ll no longer be rewarded appropriately for winning the matches???

I’m sorry, WHAT?

Now you’ve not only NOT made improvements to the potential for mismatches, but you’ve removed any reason to try when you inevitably run into one. Brilliant.

We realize that the weeks following the end of season one have left a bit of a gap for players who wish to continue to queue for Ranked play. We share your eagerness to jump back into the fray as soon as possible, and we’re currently exploring some ideas for how future off-seasons will work. In the meantime, the countdown to the start of season two continues—so keep honing your skills and experimenting with new builds, and we’ll see you all on the battlefield soon!

Left a bit of a gap? There’s nothing to do! Ranked is the only reason to play PvP. You’ve turned the game off for a month. It doesn’t take an economics professor to understand that’s a poor business practice for an on-demand product.

I honestly have no confidence in anything ANet does at this point. The more they talk, the more inept they come off.

Right now I have zero interest in season 2. I suppose I should thank whoever wrote this amateur drivel for the heads up not to waste my time. Cheers.

Saiyan.1704:

Takina.1739:

Saiyan.1704:

skullfaerie.7203:

Soul.9280:

Some other combos that are inherently not fair:

5 vs 2-1-1-1
4-1 vs 1-1-1-1-1
4-1 vs 2-1-1-1

^ This.

I got a good laugh out of that section of the blog post though. It even admits that this ‘fix’ only addresses a tiny number of cases. The majority of potentially unfair match ups are untouched.

Are people not realizimg that premades will have a 10m+ queue time?

We know you solo casuals don’t care, but we can’t simply ignore premade’s who are either practicing for tournaments or choose to group up to avoid soloQ heros on their team. More importantly, fighting for those win streaks and getting Legendary quicker.

Next you’re going to say 3-1-1 vs 1-2-1-1-1 is an unfair matchup… le sigh

As far as I’m concerned 10min que times for Diamond+ players is largely their own fault. People abusing broken system in season 1 to power pip their way up while at the same time pushing everyone else back down and then crying there are not enough people at the top of the hill with them. People and even teams grouping with low rank players (dont even get me started on them charging gold for carrying people up in ranks). People using 2nd and 3rd accounts, which are of course lower ranked. And back when they were tanking their MMR after reaching a point where didnt have to worry about losing pips for a lose.

Ya, its lonely at the top. Maybe if so many didnt buy, beg, cheat, and steal their way up a few more of us would be there too and your queue times wouldnt be so bad.

It’s not based on mmr anymore, nor can you bring an Amber in to get better matches… so no need to “tank” anything.

Finding 5 competent buddies to group up isn’t “system abuse”. It’s called going in with a premade because you don’t want solo players on your team.

I understand Legendary teams waiting. But teams who are Ruby on down shouldn’t deserve a 10m wait time that you all are apparently wanting.

I clearly stated "People abusing broken system in season 1 " with the implication being that is a part of what led to their longer wait times. Im going to assume you misread what I posted. The only other option is to think you’re borderline illiterate, so i will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Also, i was 4 points away from Diamond when the season ended. I solo queued almost exclusively, and I NEVER had more than a 4min wait and rarely more than 3mins.

Atlast! Major changes.
…Why just now

After alot of friends and people left the game.
Meh

Sad and mad.
Very good, keep up the speedy fix.
Wow. Much speed. Very wow.

Takina.1739:

2 things that I still think need to be done

1: no changing characters during the “waiting for match to begin”. I would hope the the MMSystem is smart enough to try to balance out classes on each side as best it can, why would we then allow people to swap classes after? Even if the MMSystem doesn’t I feel swapping characters after looking at the teams is a lot like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors and switching your pick from Rock to Scissors when you see the other team is full of Paper.

2: Roll Stronghold into the regular queue with Conquest. Make it just another map. This eliminates some of the issues of completely unbalanced Stronghold teams because now they are forced to compete in Conquest as well and cant just farm 1 map type for wins. (as a side note to this, I would personally love if you added Spirit Watch to the map rotation too…)

Stronghold should never ever be in the same rotation as conquest. It’s a completely different play mode. Can you imagine the riots from PvPers being forced to play PvE (which is what Stronghold essentially is)? Your suggestion would cause a mass exodus among everybody except very casual PvPers and run counter to the competitive framework Anet has been trying to build with ladders and seasons. The level of facepalm would be far worse than allowing vanilla Skyhammer in the original ranked solo queue way back in 2013. A much better solution to prevent farming is to remove pip gain from Stronghold altogether and relegate the map to the casual abyss where it belongs. Or, if resources allow, make Stronghold a completely separate thing with its own queue, separate leaderboard and titles, so those who want to enjoy it can do so without devaluing the conquest leaderboard.

As for Spirit Watch, its map mechanics reward team coordination, so it should not be in ranked queue as long as premades versus soloers is a thing. Having voice comms gives a disproportionate advantage on a map where you have to focus on controlling nodes and the orb simultaneously. Though I would not mind seeing Spirit Watch in a full 5v5 setting such as ESL weeklies.

Regarding your first bullet, I would be fine with locking, if profession stacking is removed and team roles are factored into the match making system. As you queue you indicate that you are a roamer/DPS, a teamfighter, or a point holder/support, and the system would make sure that each team has a suitable number of each.

Evan Lesh.3295:

The configuration limits the size difference between the largest premades. Configured currently at 3, a 5 vs 2 or 4 vs 1 is the largest gap possible. If we lower the cutoff to 2, then 5v3, 4v2, and 3v1 become the largest gaps possible.

This cutoff 2 sounds good. But i don´t know what will happen to que times. I think the global impact would be low, but a few teams might get seriously long que times.
It depends how the order is done. If the system only uses the most exreme matchups as a last option if it can´t find more fair matchups within a few minutes then its OK and won´ t be better with cutoff 2.