Guild Wars 2

WatcherJason.2678:

Kuya.6495:

Half the forum has been clamoring to limit your playstyle by having cele removed. I think it’s fair you at least aim your fury at them.

This whole effort is to remove some of the tankyness from the current meta but it seems like a very knee jerk reaction. Soon enough with the tanky removed we will be back to the thief and mesmer insta burst meta(this tanky meta developed to counter the burst meta). I’m sure we all remember how fun that was /s

Removing a whole way of playing is a poor way to balance, adjust the skills that are making a build too strong, this is where strict pvp and pve balance comes in.

Burst meta inc.

It is going to be the condition or power burst meta. Either you blow up the necro/rev fast, or they blow you up with conditions. GOGO ESPORTS!

• Sigil of Energy: overnerfed: grants 12.5 endurance over 5s that doesn’t stack intensity with other vigor sources, instead of 50 endurance instantly.
  If changed to Vigor make it at least 10s. (+best would be to revert vigor to 100% effectiveness but to make every skill have half as long vigor duration on it)
• Rune of Durability: I liked the fact that you could boost your defensive stats if you have none(viper’s amulet/zerker). I don’t mind this amulet gone if you give jewels back (inside amulets) to let us mix up the stats at least a little.
• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Why you don’t just remove Sigil of energy?

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

We’re planning on making some changes to amulets/sigils/runes available in PvP for the Winter 2016 Update (January 26). Some of these changes will greatly affect the way that PvP is played, so I wanted to take this opportunity to get the changes in front of everyone, discuss the implications as a group, and see where we net out…

/discuss

PS, gold for purchases runes/amulets will be refunded, and the newly added amulets will be free.

Any planned changes, laid out on paper, without a place for the player base at large, to play test said proposed changes (free beta testing for Anet…think of the budget savings) is wishful changes at best and more of the same at it’s worst.

Until you (ArenaNet…not to be confused with you Josh Davis, the person) get over whatever internal resistance to setting up a live play test server. so that we the players can show you what the meta(s) will become, you are simply just throwing crap against the wall and hoping it’ll sort itself out.

The introduction of mender’s will give druids a de facto buff since many stats on celestial like condition damage were redundant.

“Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality”

The sage’s amulet looks ideal for Mallyx/Ventari builds.

Axialbloom.8109:

Daharahj.1325:

Alekt.5803:

1050 thoughness 1050 condition 560 precision 560 healing

Healing Power and Toughness in the same amulet is a big no. no.

Which means eles are dead.

Yes, some amulets look like they didn’t have eles and thieves in mind.
Please let us mix some the stats some more (reimplement jewels). Especially for adding some vitality to statsets that have none.

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

They removed some bunker amulets and added new ones. Defense is also most traitline based for a lot of classes.

They need to find a balance between bunk/zerk…I dont think removing stuff is the answer to that,as someone else said everyone will just go zerk again and ppl will die in 5 sec..Theres never a balancing ground with anet,its always either This or That.

One comment on the refund, etc. I am happy to see this. I also think that ALL amulets, runes, and sigils should be free. The beauty of PvP is that everyone can be equal. Putting up a paywall doesn’t make sense.

may I ask why you remove soldier?

only one build used it called strenght soldier build, a defensive tank necro, one of the only viable necro builds (great, was meta for a couple weeks on metabattle) who wasnt using the deathly chill thing everyone was complaining about. now that is gone forcing all necros going for that annoying “I put chill on you so die”-condition variant.. seriously?

on crusader strength soldier isnt as tanky and its failing to simply facetank ppl.. besides that any necro will thank you anet for this huge buff on the condi side we are getting! no cele anymore, others got nerved and finally we got our perfect amulet ( mercenarys )

seriously I thought you wanted build diversity but it seems like you only push build who wer used in the league comps..

just giving one example Im sure there are others..

Josh Davis.6015:

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

That’s a potential risk, but that’s also why we’re putting these changes in weeks before the next PvP League season. If we get an early indication that things aren’t going the way we want them to we’ll have time to make any needed changes.

I’m sure that’s exactly what will happen. The forums will fill with threads complaining about the burst meta and how it’s the worst meta ever.

Just consider however, that from the viewer’s perspective in pvp, a burst meta might be more entertaining than a bunker meta. What if the new meta becomes a burst meta? Might be for the best. You can’t please everyone.

Josh Davis.6015:

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

That’s a potential risk, but that’s also why we’re putting these changes in weeks before the next PvP League season. If we get an early indication that things aren’t going the way we want them to we’ll have time to make any needed changes.

Have you ever thought of class specific runes/sigils in pvp ? And how that would work out considering some runes/sigils could be op for e.g scrapper while they could just be “useful” for another class ?

- Removed Celestial
- Removed Sigil of Energy
- Removed Elementalist?

Is there any particular reason you guys won’t consider a multi-item stat system for PvP? I feel like that would significantly increase build diversity and the fun I have playing new builds.

One thing that bugs me here

Healing power is pathetic on some healing abilities, non existent on others, and nutso overpowered on others

Soldiers was removed without a good reason besides that it’s bunkery
It has no sustain. It doesn’t have healing power. The problem is so many heals in the game don’t scale sensibly on healing power, especially aoe team heals, which means that with no healing power at all, they’re strong, and with tons of healing power, ever so slightly stronger, so soldiers builds don’t feel the loss

If healing power worked more sensibly, where your healing skill worked fairly normally for self healing, regardless of healing power, and all of the other heals scaled well on healing power with terrible bases, toughness and vitality wouldn’t be a big deal

Why touching sigil of energy? Cant see any balance issue here. Thieves can nearly perma-evade without it and on other classes it dont do much. It is also the least problem from all bunkerbuilds. It is one of the very few sigils you need at least a bit of brain not to waste it by wrong timed weaponswap or dodgewaste. With the 50% endurance you could work tactically with vigor you cant that well and it only stack in duration with other sources of vigor… And for it no changes to all the passive proc sigils. I dont get it.

+1050 power
+1050 precision
+560 toughness
+560 ferocity
pls pls pls

I think it’s a bit over the top to nerf all and everything defensive all at once. It’s popular to say kill the bunkers, I think right most are sick of the bunker meta. But to remove defensive amulets, mess with energy sigils, and removing defensive runes, while at the same time nerfing some bunker class traits/mechanics. I think it’ll be a tad over the top, but that’s just my opinion.

Not to mention the power creep being added at the same time doing all of the above. Eh, I’m not so sure it’ll work out as pretty as they are hoping.

Caedmon.6798:

They need to find a balance between bunk/zerk…I dont think removing stuff is the answer to that,as someone else said everyone will just go zerk again and ppl will die in 5 sec..Theres never a balancing ground with anet,its always either This or That.

Indeed, the idea of removing bunkers completely is something I’m not that keen on. I think bunker builds should have some place in PvP it is just that bunkers shouldn’t be the only viable chose.

Also, at first I was surprised that no nerfs for druids were mentioned, but with the removal of celestial, druid is not that strong anymore. Mender might be the amulet for druids after the patch. With mender, druid would have more healing but a bit less damage(lack of ferocity) and toughness.

Mercenary looks quite strong, I think I will try it on my venom thief and see how it works. Unblockable Bass venom with venomshare is going to be interesting.

No Celestial, no energy = no elementalist.

GG WP, ANet. Another profession out of meta, back to 2013-2014 – no one ele.

Josh Davis.6015:

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

That’s a potential risk, but that’s also why we’re putting these changes in weeks before the next PvP League season. If we get an early indication that things aren’t going the way we want them to we’ll have time to make any needed changes.

I think this meta is bunkery enough without bunker amulets.
Revenants and engis can be barely killed in marauder ATM.
And more glassy specs are a lot more exciting IMO, you can see how much better it is in 1v1 rooms where cele and soldier amulets are disallowed.

Don’t remove celestial.

This changes do not work nor do they help balance the game. You have 1 set of skills and 2 sets of gears for 2 environments.

You need to unify gear and rebalance.

Tempest could handle the DS change, but removing Cele amulet?

Josh Davis.6015:

Runes
We’ll be removing the following runes from PvP:

• Rune of Durability

nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

• Rune of Mercy

Sigil Changes:

• Sigil of Demon Summoning: this sigil will no longer be usable in PvP.
  • We already removed a majority of AI summoning sigils/runes in a previous release – we’re just finishing the job.
• Sigil of Energy: the functionality of this Sigil is changing slightly. Instead of granting 50 endurance on weapon swap, Sigil of Energy will instead grant 5 seconds of vigor to the player with the usual 9 second ICD. This change only applies to PvP.

no comment

Amulet Changes:

We’ll be adding the following amulets:

Mercenary’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality

Paladin’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Precision
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality

yessssssssssssssssssssssss
yessss
yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
yessssssssssssssss

We’re also removing the following amulets:

• Soldier’s
• Settler’s
• Celestial
• Sentinel

/discuss

aw kitten celestial.
nvm the new 4 stats combo looks good.

PS, gold for purchases runes/amulets will be refunded, and the newly added amulets will be free.

well thats a consolation.

This removal of bunk amulets will allow the dev team to see the balance of the elite specs more easily in terms of sustainability. DPS and burst i’m not so sure but I think it will be healthy to have meta builds with multiple weaknesses instead of being able to trait for toughness and vitality alone.

Very good changes

Sigil of energy in its ridiculously nerfed state (lol 12 endurance) is a noob trap and should be removed from pvp instead

Use this chance to buff Elementalist health. I do not see how eles are going to survive with all these nerfs.

They’re seriously removing cele? Is there any direction or is this all just firing from the hip with your eyes closed? There is no hope here

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

It will work the new WvW way. Spawn, run, die. Respawn, run again, die. Respawn, run some more, die.

The one who runs faster wins more, #sigilOfSpeedMeta2016 (:

HipposWild.7185:

They’re seriously removing cele? Is there any direction or is this all just firing from the hip with your eyes closed? There is no hope here

Statistics show many of these amulets dominate the meta for a long time now. When a few amulets are a large proportion of the meta for years they should be fixed. Statistics prove anet correct

From a spectator point of view, these all look great to me.

From a fairly casual (low ruby) pvp player point of view, they also look very good. I enjoy theorycrafting on builds and experimenting. These changes give me some new ideas.

Thx!

HellShadow.6813:

+1050 power
+1050 precision
+560 toughness
+560 ferocity
pls pls pls

If we are going to have yet another round shifting things around that dont work, might as well get this.

Probably 2 home 3 mid and everyone will be stealthing and ranging instead of standing on point GG conquest and rotation because everything will die so soon so it will be about surviving the burst instead of rotating to another point.

Lordrosicky.5813:

HipposWild.7185:

They’re seriously removing cele? Is there any direction or is this all just firing from the hip with your eyes closed? There is no hope here

Statistics show many of these amulets dominate the meta for a long time now. When a few amulets are a large proportion of the meta for years they should be fixed. Statistics prove anet correct

This is a hail Mary not about metrics. They broke balance and are reaching for low hanging fruit before breaking their previous new elite specs (except for Mesmer RIP). Everyone ran cele because it gave decent stats in everything and was adaptable to most builds, nothing more.

Removing cele and putting in 4 stat combo amulets isn’t wise either. If you want balance have 4-5 three stat amulets to choose from.

HellShadow.6813:

+1050 power
+1050 precision
+560 toughness
+560 ferocity
pls pls pls

I second this plzzzzz Josh make it happen

If we are going to have yet another round shifting things around that dont work, might as well get this.

Why would it not work? It is like saying marauder is not working, it will work for ranger, mesmer, warrior, necromancer, revenant, and engineer. It is a variation of marauder.

Josh Davis.6015:

oDe Da Beast.7596:

Mercenary’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Pls.

Valid concern – it’s the amulet that I’ll be watching the closest. We’re going to give it a shot and if things don’t work out we won’t hesitate to remove it.

Why not address normalizing health pools first?

I actually like these changes people keep saying builds are being nerfed this is actually interesting. IMO mesmers were never supposed to be tanking I actually like shatter mesmer it relied on confusing your enemies and strategy. I hope the bunker warrior and dragon hunters comeback. this will definitely change the meta from being so tanky toughnes and vitality amulets seems ok imo we can only wait and see how it plays out when the class balance changes maybe now pvp matches wont actually take so long.
This may also give the core classes a chance too since when ever there in ranked people complain unless your a necro..

Because watching ESPORTS Matches take 15 min to finished with bunker vs bunker was starting to get annoying

Pretty cool changes, it will be interesting to see how it all works out on top of the supposed wide sweeping balance changes.

Pyriall.1683:

Josh Davis.6015:

oDe Da Beast.7596:

Mercenary’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Pls.

Valid concern – it’s the amulet that I’ll be watching the closest. We’re going to give it a shot and if things don’t work out we won’t hesitate to remove it.

Why not address normalizing health pools first?

This is never happening. Imagine giving guardians a Necro health pool…. The classes aren’t equal, some are low HP by design as they mitigate half of the incoming damage already. Aegis and 25k hp or a glass thief with 20k? Never gonna happen.

Josh Davis.6015:

WatcherJason.2678:

Kicker.8203:

• Removing bunker amulets is a dream come true! Great job.

Give it week 1 of Season 2 and it will be “This is no fun… I just die in 2 seconds constantly to this <insert burst spec here>, wish I could build more defensive”

That’s a potential risk, but that’s also why we’re putting these changes in weeks before the next PvP League season. If we get an early indication that things aren’t going the way we want them to we’ll have time to make any needed changes.

I wish to raise the bolded point below again. We don’t want the meta to shift to an insta kill burst from Thief/Reaper/Mesmer. Both extreme burst and extreme bunkers are bad for the game.

Tenets for a fun/not boring to watch games:

• 1v1 should never last more than 3 minutes
• 1v2 should never last for more than 1 minute
• 1v3 should die as soon as invul/block wear off.
• burst should never kill another class in less than 5s.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/first

Trinram.3708:

I actually like these changes people keep saying builds are being nerfed this is actually interesting. IMO mesmers were never supposed to be tanking I actually like shatter mesmer it relied on confusing your enemies and strategy. I hope the bunker warrior and dragon hunters comeback. this will definitely change the meta from being so tanky toughnes and vitality amulets seems ok imo we can only wait and see how it plays out when the class balance changes maybe now pvp matches wont actually take so long.
This may also give the core classes a chance too since when ever there in ranked people complain unless your a necro..

Because watching ESPORTS Matches take 15 min to finished with bunker vs bunker was starting to get annoying

After they nerfed PU stealth and now are destroying sigil of energy, shatter isn’t that HoT (sic).

wow, those amulets are amazing. i always wanted those – 4 stat spreads with offense (primary)/defence(secondary) mix. truly game-changing imo – in a good way ofc

I have to say I really dislike the change to sigil of energy and the removal of cele amulet from PvP. I think they both could’ve been nerfed slightly while keeping them functionally the same.

(maybe make sigil of energy give 35-40% endurance instead of 50%, drop the stats on cele amulet by 5%)

The changes to sigil of energy are only going to hurt some of the more underpowered (or underused) traitlines, such as honor for guardians and dueling for mesmers. For engi/scrapper, protection injection will be far superior to invigorating swiftness as the go-to alchemy adept trait, instead of having both as viable options. Healing turret will certainly replace elixir H for the few engis that are still using it. I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point. I think this change may actually hurt PvP build diversity.

Sigil of energy can be very strong on certain classes due to weapon swap mechanics (engi, necro, ele), but I don’t know that this is the way to solve it.

Another lazy cover-up move from A-net. I don’t even care about celestial it’s a cheat anyway but removing soldiers???!?!? what the actual kitten. Not op, not even used that much, yet they just remove it for no reason. They just went like “oh well let’s just kitten a tiny fraction of the player base up, just because we have to somehow make those who used celestial less angry”

kittenty, lazy move 100%

ps. i love that my curse words are covered up by “kitten”

I think they could’ve added these new amulets without removing the old ones, tbh. Or maybe waited a few weeks to see how the trait and skill changes (like diamond skin) affect PvP. This seems like so many huge changes it will be impossible to tell what works and what doesn’t.

Also, mercenary amulet and sigil of intelligence… did no one think of how ridiculously OP this combination will be?