Guild Wars 2

The piercing light nerf on DH does not say pvp only so i expect wvw and pve too?

JahCool.3812:

The piercing light nerf on DH does not say pvp only so i expect wvw and pve too?

Dev already stated it is global

Karl McLain.5604:

Kuya.6495:

Karl McLain.5604:

For those asking about it: We’ll be keeping tabs on a few of the buff (+nerf) splits and will take them into other parts of the game in future updates, as is seen fitting.
Thanks for your continued feedback!

-Karl

While you’re here:

Are there also skill changes for warrior, necromancer and ranger coming next week as well? The skill balance preview didn’t include them so i assume they won’t be receiving changes on this specific patch?

I’m always here.
This update featured very directed changes with PvP specifically being the target, to herald in the new season and shake things up a bit. It’s not a full balance update and not all professions are being covered at this time.
Does this update substitute for a full balance update? No. We’ll still be doing game-wide balance updates in the future, in which case you’ll probably see a full spectrum of changes.

-Karl

Alright, thank you for answering. I just wanted to know whether to expect any changes for those 3 classes or not. Now i can just focus on absorbing what we have.

so any chance we’ll see these changes in the guild hall arena? Anything other than the PvE rule set would be great in there.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mesmer

Mesmer has been on our radar for a while now, but it’s a delicate situation. We’re going to keep the change list small for this update, focusing mostly on sustain, and reassess the situation mid-season.

• Echo of Memory: The cooldown of this ability has been increased from 30 to 35 seconds in PvP only.
• Restorative Illusions: The healing contribution of this trait has been increased by 285% in PvP only. The base healing modifiers for this trait have been adjusted as follows:
  • 0 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 62% in PvP only.
  • 1 Illusion shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 50% in PvP only.
  • 2 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 42% in PvP only.
  • 3 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 36% in PvP only.

Could you please clarify these numbers? What exactly does all this mean for RI on current builds? (No healing power) What about with 560 HP from Sages/Menders?

Will it mean these Amulets will become useful to us? (As in, significantly more healing from RI then they do currently?) Or does the 285% boost only mean these already completely unused Amulets (for Mesmers) will remain useless?

I can’t begin to fathom the reasons for these nerfs, considering that all Mesmer Power builds need better sustain not worse. I was hoping you’d be interested in providing more build diversity, not killing off the already almost non-existent build diversity of this profession.

I think it’s great that you now have the ability to balance a little more freely without regard to PvE balance, but none of this will mean anything if you continue to nerf in this way. Every single significant nerf in this game should always be accompanied by some sort boost of an unused/underused aspect of the same profession. Considering that every profession is chuck full of useless/underused/underpowered traits, utilities, and skills this will not be hard to accomplish.

This constant process of only targeting specific builds for nerfs with absolutely no regard for what the nerfs do for the profession in general is never going to lead to balance.

Mesmers for one have loads of them! Is there nothing you can think of to boost for a class that has effectively one PvP build? Sad state of affairs if you ask me…

Windwalker.7421:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mesmer

Mesmer has been on our radar for a while now, but it’s a delicate situation. We’re going to keep the change list small for this update, focusing mostly on sustain, and reassess the situation mid-season.

• Echo of Memory: The cooldown of this ability has been increased from 30 to 35 seconds in PvP only.
• Restorative Illusions: The healing contribution of this trait has been increased by 285% in PvP only. The base healing modifiers for this trait have been adjusted as follows:
  • 0 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 62% in PvP only.
  • 1 Illusion shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 50% in PvP only.
  • 2 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 42% in PvP only.
  • 3 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 36% in PvP only.

Could you please clarify these numbers? What exactly does all this mean for RI on current builds? (No healing power) What about with 560 HP from Sages/Menders?

Will it mean these Amulets will become useful to us, or does the 285% boost only mean these already completely unused Amulets (for Mesmers) will now become more viable options? (As in, significantly more healing from RI then they do currently?)

I can’t begin to fathom the reasons for these nerfs, considering that all Mesmer Power builds need better sustain not worse. I was hoping you’d be interested in providing more build diversity, not killing off the already almost non-existent build diversity of this profession.

I think it’s great that you now have the ability to balance a little more freely without regard to PvP balance, but none of this will mean anything if you continue to nerf in this way. Every single significant nerf in this game should always be accompanied by some sort boost of an unused/underused aspect of the same profession. Considering that every profession is chuck full of useless/underused/underpowered traits, utilities, and skills this will not be hard to accomplish!

Mesmers for one have loads of them! Is there nothing you can think of to boost for a class that has effectively one PvP build? Sad state of affairs if you ask me…

You can go in game and run the numbers yourself…..

And this is par for the course of there changes for all classes traits/skills that provide healing on top so they require HP for good healing numbers.

Bezerker.2379:

Honestly, while I am very very happy to see pvp balancing, I am sad to say I also have issues with this.

I play 2 out of 3 game modes exclusively. I occasionally dabble in the third. The drastic differences (especially on CDs and whatnot) between game modes gets annoying.

All this will do is further lock people into specific game modes for their class.

If these were split with wvw & pvp vs pve, I might be less annoyed, but I must say, even though I play a class seeing a buff here (fresh air scepter ele) I am bothered by the lack of consistency in game modes.

I know most players love this, but it just really drives me nuts. :P

I’m sorry skill splitting bothers you, but it’s something that absolutely needs to happen if the different modes are to be balanced in any way. They are different animals and skills act differently in different scenarios. Trying to keep the skills identical between the modes when the modes don’t function the same is just asking for issues. We already see it with balancing. We’ve seen it for years.

The ele changes for scepter are an amazing start, and were done in such a way that bunker ele isn’t going to benefit at all really. Thank you very much for FINALLY making changes that are like 2 years overdue. I am also glad to hear these may make into pve someday (all excpet for glyph heal could be put into pve with 0 risk).

Also, rev changes are actually great. I do think that maybe some of the sustained damage should have been increased to make up for it, but surge of the mists and precision strike were two of the most “unfair” skills in the game when put onto a revenant that has absurd amounts of hard mitigation.

thijsken.5031:

So my biggest concern with nerfing rev is the following:

So first of all let’s be honest ele is pretty dam strong atm, not taking an ele in your team is basically not even considered. An ele had to choose between different traits according to matchups making it weak against some things and strong against other things. But if you nerf rev thus letting ele just take diamond skin, what will kill ele?

Warrior is a great choice here. Eles are REALLY REALLY vulnerable to interrupts (no stunbreaks, just lighting flash, obsidian flesh, and overload IF AVAILABLE). Warriors have plenty of interrupts to force the ele out of the fight or negate their impact.

Overall, I think more nerfs (especially blocks, evades, invulns) need to come, but you guys are doing some very good changes finally bringing some useless stuff closer to par.

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

sophiewhite.3149:

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

Honestly, I don’t want ANY class to be nerfed too hard. I know what that is like (Ele circa winter 2013) – it isn’t fun and causes people to leave the game.

However, Rev had some extremely OP aspects that needed to nerfed. It may need subsequent buffs to counteract some of its weaknesses (like condi), but its hard to know before seeing the impact of nerfing the OP stuff. I would hope if they are a little UP, they get some buffs (in other places, like sustained damage) in the next patch. However, a class can’t be buffed reasonably without first getting rid of something OP if that is the main thing carrying it.

From the extremely reasonable responses of Cal (who actually seems to have a clue about roles and holes), I would have more hope going forward. Good to see.

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

Pyriall.1683:

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

It’s not like it doesn’t already have a high cost on HS, that most classes have ways to negate it entirely i.e. Projectile hate/Reflects, loads of Stability, and so on…

Pyriall.1683:

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

If you suggest this, then let me in return suggest entire removal of "reveal" debuff on thieves. Thieves have very limited defensive skills as is outside of acro Staff builds.

Also, still have yet to see Coalescence of Ruin (Rev skill) being touched. Spammable 1200 range skill that can easily surpass 10-12K damage is a bit overwhelming.

Since the devs seems to be reading this thread, I will comment on Guard and Rev changes.

The piercing light change is a buff not a nerf. Contrary to the believe the daze was not what made the traps strong it is the damage. Now it gains utility. I assume it offsets that guard as a class has no rez stomp now.

The changes to core guard will not make support role viable. If that was the objective, it surely wont work. The changes to virtues though are good for burn guard, which should be viable with these changes. With the exception VoJ, why were not the changes to virtues implemented in PvE as well? VoR and VoC are pretty pathetic in PvE compared to WoR and SoC.

Rev, since season 4 end rev lost any form of stability, easy access to reg, shiro heal nerfed, 33% damage nerf to the skill where majority of the sword damage is and 50% on staff 5 and 3 increased CD on a block. These changes have been branded as slight nerf.

The funny part is rev excel at lame game play, that sees most of its functionality in organized competition, which is boon bot and rez stomp, and everything else is being nerfed to oblivion. It would still be used in organized competition as boon bot and rez stomper. Every where else in sPvP (which is the 99.99999999% of game play) it will suck. You devs have been running around the bush for a year now, and what made Rev over performing is not addressed and nerfed every single other aspect of the class. Instead of these non logical changes, nerf the AOE CCs and Glint. Problem solved.

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

I’d say you should’ve removed the evade, or shortened it to 1/2s. This is a case of the nerf bat hitting the wrong thing; damage was high yeah but it wasn’t “insane,” rev could get more damage off of sword AA in the same timeframe (when you factor in Devastation traits and vulnerability). However, the evade was and is silly, they already have a block on 3 and a (difficult to land) CC on 2. SotM was a nice damage and CC, and now it’s just a watered-down version of its former self. Rather than making it a lame skill as it now is, why not instead remove or tone down the evade to give it some counterplay? People who complained about the skill beforehand had a combination of need-to-git-guditis and a genuine lack of ability to counteract the skill. The same issue continues to be just as true, but now the skill itself is just meh. Staff was already the weaker set for damage compared to sword, now it’s legitimately a bad choice overall with the nerf to Warding Mists.

BlackBeard.2873:

sophiewhite.3149:

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

Honestly, I don’t want ANY class to be nerfed too hard. I know what that is like (Ele circa winter 2013) – it isn’t fun and causes people to leave the game.

However, Rev had some extremely OP aspects that needed to nerfed. It may need subsequent buffs to counteract some of its weaknesses (like condi), but its hard to know before seeing the impact of nerfing the OP stuff. I would hope if they are a little UP, they get some buffs (in other places, like sustained damage) in the next patch. However, a class can’t be buffed reasonably without first getting rid of something OP if that is the main thing carrying it.

From the extremely reasonable responses of Cal (who actually seems to have a clue about roles and holes), I would have more hope going forward. Good to see.

yes rev needed nerfing. what i have a problem with is the 50% part. thats a ridiculously high number. its how you turn classes into being useless. you do small changes but lots of them and see how they do . its called tweaking. this is bulldozing. rip staff on rev. thats the only use it had. if they want condi to be viable they should buff condi. nerfing power doesnt make condi viable.

sophiewhite.3149:

yes rev needed nerfing. what i have a problem with is the 50% part. thats a ridiculously high number. its how you turn classes into being useless. you do small changes but lots of them and see how they do . its called tweaking. this is bulldozing. rip staff on rev. thats the only use it had. if they want condi to be viable they should buff condi. nerfing power doesnt make condi viable.

No skill SHOULD be doing everything. When timed right, surge of the mists would take like 75% of a squishy’s health, while evading and cc-ing, meaning no counterplay either. It doesn’t even need to be a damaging skill to be good. Taken objectively, its still an amazing skill if it did 0 damage, and most people would be happy to have it on their skill bar.

If rev’s need more damage, it should be in other places. They aren’t squishy like other burst classes are (they are much more tanky), and with more hard mitigation than most (evades, invulns, blocks). Thus, they SHOULD do less burst. However, to still have a place, they should probably have higher sustained damage. I think they still do compared to other in that role, but if they don’t, then there should be buffs to the other skills, not the “do everything” skill.

BlackBeard.2873:

sophiewhite.3149:

yes rev needed nerfing. what i have a problem with is the 50% part. thats a ridiculously high number. its how you turn classes into being useless. you do small changes but lots of them and see how they do . its called tweaking. this is bulldozing. rip staff on rev. thats the only use it had. if they want condi to be viable they should buff condi. nerfing power doesnt make condi viable.

No skill SHOULD be doing everything. When timed right, surge of the mists would take like 75% of a squishy’s health, while evading and cc-ing, meaning no counterplay either. It doesn’t even need to be a damaging skill to be good. Taken objectively, its still an amazing skill if it did 0 damage, and most people would be happy to have it on their skill bar.

If rev’s need more damage, it should be in other places. They aren’t squishy like other burst classes are (they are much more tanky), and with more hard mitigation than most (evades, invulns, blocks). Thus, they SHOULD do less burst. However, to still have a place, they should probably have higher sustained damage. I think they still do compared to other in that role, but if they don’t, then there should be buffs to the other skills, not the “do everything” skill.

It’s only “amazing” as a way to avoid damage in an outnumbered situation. In a 1v1 situation, CCing my enemy while evading is nonsensical, I’d rather them blow a CD or two and miss me than be CCed, both at the same time defeats the purpose of evades and CCs. Not that it’s bad but it’s not a great skill for 1v1s now that it has meh damage. And with meh damage it’s just ok, a good defensive skill but not amazing. It’s very difficult to line up multiple CCs with this skill (unlike facet of chaos), impossible against even 1 smart player.

My necro could like this nerfed skill on my skill bar please omg do evade mass cc and burst with 1 button press. Takes a lot of skill to do everything with 1 button lol.

Good revs still will do good and bad revs will be there where they belong to. as i have said already.

Windwalker.7421:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mesmer

Mesmer has been on our radar for a while now, but it’s a delicate situation. We’re going to keep the change list small for this update, focusing mostly on sustain, and reassess the situation mid-season.

• Echo of Memory: The cooldown of this ability has been increased from 30 to 35 seconds in PvP only.
• Restorative Illusions: The healing contribution of this trait has been increased by 285% in PvP only. The base healing modifiers for this trait have been adjusted as follows:
  • 0 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 62% in PvP only.
  • 1 Illusion shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 50% in PvP only.
  • 2 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 42% in PvP only.
  • 3 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 36% in PvP only.

Could you please clarify these numbers? What exactly does all this mean for RI on current builds? (No healing power) What about with 560 HP from Sages/Menders?

Will it mean these Amulets will become useful to us? (As in, significantly more healing from RI then they do currently?) Or does the 285% boost only mean these already completely unused Amulets (for Mesmers) will remain useless?

I can’t begin to fathom the reasons for these nerfs, considering that all Mesmer Power builds need better sustain not worse. I was hoping you’d be interested in providing more build diversity, not killing off the already almost non-existent build diversity of this profession.

I think it’s great that you now have the ability to balance a little more freely without regard to PvE balance, but none of this will mean anything if you continue to nerf in this way. Every single significant nerf in this game should always be accompanied by some sort boost of an unused/underused aspect of the same profession. Considering that every profession is chuck full of useless/underused/underpowered traits, utilities, and skills this will not be hard to accomplish.

This constant process of only targeting specific builds for nerfs with absolutely no regard for what the nerfs do for the profession in general is never going to lead to balance.

Mesmers for one have loads of them! Is there nothing you can think of to boost for a class that has effectively one PvP build? Sad state of affairs if you ask me…

You need about 900 HP to get the same healing per illusion after the nerf according to @apharma in the mesmer forums. I agree with you though, this was a strange place to nerf condi mesmer considering it also nerfs power mesmer incredibly hard as well (on top of EoM getting higher CD too…). Its a great nerf, yea. But it was applied in the wrong place and doesn’t change how much condi pressure condi chrono can output

Can we expect reaper GS changes? I find the weapon rather underwhelming….

Condi Chrono changes are nowhere near enough. Shield, Signet of Illusions, Portal and Moa are the main culprits. Could you please move portal to Elite status already? Increase Shield and SoI CDs significantly? Or maybe even touching chronophantasma and/or other overpowered traits? The profession would no longer be mandatory then.

Now that you took care of Heralds (which most likely wont be mandatory anymore, hopefully… the nerfs are not as serious as they sound), this is a good time to do it.
Also, nothing on Necros, Warriors and Rangers? Balance affects directly and indirectly every single profession, not doing anything to those is a mistake.

Saiyan.1704:

EDIT
It’s Core virtue changes… not DH Virtue changes. We read it wrong… DH Guard is going to be in a weird spot while Core Guard, well, idk what Anet is wanting from them.

Yeah I see now that these are core virtue changes and not DH changes which should make DH in an ok spot overall. I still believe that these trap changes won’t really amount to a whole lot and in some situations will even be better than the old daze since slow at that duration is basically better for most things aside from cleaving corpses and interrupting abilities, which you don’t even use it for a lot of the time. I wouldn’t be too worried about DH at all it still has all the rest of its tools and damage available I still think it will be one of the strongest classes in the meta especially with how easy it is.

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

UA – Bugged, damage split
Elements … lol just walk out of it
Chaos – press v
equilibrium – you nerfed that, remember? I guess this is technically a buff now, because we have no skills worth using so we’ll always have above 50 energy.
Sword autoattack – sure, if the servers aren’t lagging

Well power shatter was garbage anyways, who needs diversity in their games?

Echo of memory change should also guarantee the phantasm even if canceled.

Why are all of the balance changes supposed to be encouraging build diversity except mesmers?

Buff base guardian to help encourage people to NOT take the first DH build they see on metabattle? Buff thief to try and encourage them to do more than vault spam?

But nerf all mesmer builds to indirectly nerf condi mesmer. (which everyone knows definitely needs toning down)

I mean, are the changes ACTUALLY supposed to encourage people to use more than the one build per class that they see? Warriors are still going to do only macebow. Guards meditrapper. Condi and condi cleanse still runs the game, surprise surprise.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Pyriall.1683:

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

It’s not like it doesn’t already have a high cost on HS, that most classes have ways to negate it entirely i.e. Projectile hate/Reflects, loads of Stability, and so on…

So what you’re saying is thieves should have to pay attention instead of just spamming head shot after their opener? I like it…

If you spam headshot you run out of ini, leaves you quite vulnerable.

Pyriall.1683:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Pyriall.1683:

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

It’s not like it doesn’t already have a high cost on HS, that most classes have ways to negate it entirely i.e. Projectile hate/Reflects, loads of Stability, and so on…

So what you’re saying is thieves should have to pay attention instead of just spamming head shot after their opener? I like it…

tbh im fine with making pi not proc from aa’s

Wow, poor revenants… Take away their survivability last patch and now their burst. =(

Khenzy.9348:

Condi Chrono changes are nowhere near enough. Shield, Signet of Illusions, Portal and Moa are the main culprits. Could you please move portal to Elite status already? Increase Shield and SoI CDs significantly? Or maybe even touching chronophantasma and/or other overpowered traits? The profession would no longer be mandatory then.

Now that you took care of Heralds (which most likely wont be mandatory anymore, hopefully… the nerfs are not as serious as they sound), this is a good time to do it.
Also, nothing on Necros, Warriors and Rangers? Balance affects directly and indirectly every single profession, not doing anything to those is a mistake.

SoI OP in PvP? Seriously? Wow ok, now I’ve heard everything. I don’t think a single meta build for mesmer runs SoI in PvP right now anyway.

Our shield CDs are already the highest in the game, and you want to make them even longer? Every other shield skill in the game except for Engies SH5 has at max 25 sec CD, Engy SH5 has 30 sec, and now mesmer shield skills are at 35 and 40 seconds respectively. Maybe, just maybe the CDs on mesmer shield are not the problem here…..

Moa has already been nerfed extremely hard. Way too hard honestly. Its easy to negate it, just kittening dodge, or block, or interrupt the cast. Its easy, and even if you do get hit, Moa comes with a built in evade skill…. The skill has already been gutted, along with nearly everything else about mesmer.

Finally Portal, which is really only useful in team play as most PuGs seem scared of it. Literally none of these things are overpowered on mesmer in PvP. None of them.

Nothing has been done for power mesmer (perhaps even nerf a bit for those taking inspiration), true. But recent nerfs to other class, most notably rev, might give power mesmer a little more breathing ground. Power mesmer needs alternative reliable way of dealing sustain damage other than burst shatter builds. With recent buff to ele scepter, power mesmer might actually fall to lowest sustain damage of all builds.

As for evade and cc in same skill…there’s a benefit of not getting interrupted unless against shocking aura. Try sacrifice defensive skills/traits for an interrupt builds and fight against decent rev. Most of the time all you do is most likely CC, unable to interrupt most critical high damaging skills.

Btw OriOri, he means signet of illusions, not signet of inspirations. Random acronyms can make mesmer really confused lol.

deadshot is worthless on everything but condi guardian. Every other class wanderers is better.

Flumek.9043:

Kastiel.1947:

This is the 3rd nerf to SotM ! As someone pointed out earlier , the skill will be doing 36!! % damage of what it used to at launch , that’s pathetic ..Let’s not forget that it’s highly telegraphed and easily dodgeable/blockable.

Im not asking for a public shaming but can a mod just silently remove this person? Thank you

Or may be you should be removed? Since it’s too hard for you not get hit by SotM .. and unless a rev does that right in your face, a baby shouldn’t have a problem with that

BlackBeard.2873:

sophiewhite.3149:

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

Honestly, I don’t want ANY class to be nerfed too hard. I know what that is like (Ele circa winter 2013) – it isn’t fun and causes people to leave the game.

However, Rev had some extremely OP aspects that needed to nerfed. It may need subsequent buffs to counteract some of its weaknesses (like condi), but its hard to know before seeing the impact of nerfing the OP stuff. I would hope if they are a little UP, they get some buffs (in other places, like sustained damage) in the next patch. However, a class can’t be buffed reasonably without first getting rid of something OP if that is the main thing carrying it.

From the extremely reasonable responses of Cal (who actually seems to have a clue about roles and holes), I would have more hope going forward. Good to see.

Could you stop acting like this is the first nerf Revs got ? We were op in s1 but since than it’s been a year of nerfs .. hell condi Mesmer is both easier to play and more op than power rev yet no one say anything about it

The problem with surge of the mists really isn’t in a 1v1. After some experience, it’s fairly practical to learn when a rev intends to use it and dodge it. The real issue with the attack is when you get +1 by a rev. It usually goes like this: you 1v1, then a rev ports to you and unleashes sotm right then and there catching you offguard. If you’re not at full health when that happens it’s pretty much gg.

Kastiel.1947:

BlackBeard.2873:

sophiewhite.3149:

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

Honestly, I don’t want ANY class to be nerfed too hard. I know what that is like (Ele circa winter 2013) – it isn’t fun and causes people to leave the game.

However, Rev had some extremely OP aspects that needed to nerfed. It may need subsequent buffs to counteract some of its weaknesses (like condi), but its hard to know before seeing the impact of nerfing the OP stuff. I would hope if they are a little UP, they get some buffs (in other places, like sustained damage) in the next patch. However, a class can’t be buffed reasonably without first getting rid of something OP if that is the main thing carrying it.

From the extremely reasonable responses of Cal (who actually seems to have a clue about roles and holes), I would have more hope going forward. Good to see.

Could you stop acting like this is the first nerf Revs got ? We were op in s1 but since than it’s been a year of nerfs .. hell condi Mesmer is both easier to play and more op than power rev yet no one say anything about it

And yet rev has been a staple requirement on all ESL teams since HoT as well despite these nerfs and is a very widely used class in WvW too though it’s weakness to condi limits it’s solo roaming in small groups it’s deadly.

Staff for revenant is a healing and defensive weapon, it was clearly described as this when it was first previewed even before HoT back when rev didn’t have weapon swap either. A skill on a defensive weapon set that does all it does and can take off half your health bar is objectively overpowered. If this skill was on any other class half the people here would be clapping their flippers together going “nerf nerf nerf” like seals.

Gaile Gray

Final Shielding: The cooldown of this trait has been reduced from 75 to 60 seconds The health threshold for activating Arcane Shield has been increased from 25% to 50%.

Earth’s Embrace also triggers at 50% life, a lot of Fresh Air Scepter Ele play with Air, Earth and Arcane. (not only in PvP)
I Hope u considered this… because it is useless having these 2 defensive Traits with stunnbreaker trigger at the same time. I don’t think the 15sec difference in cd will do the trick…

(sorry for bad english :S)

Why are these PvP only? WvW wants some of these changes too!

Rei Ayanami.7968:

Gaile Gray

Final Shielding: The cooldown of this trait has been reduced from 75 to 60 seconds The health threshold for activating Arcane Shield has been increased from 25% to 50%.

Earth’s Embrace also triggers at 50% life, a lot of Fresh Air Scepter Ele play with Air, Earth and Arcane. (not only in PvP)
I Hope u considered this… because it is useless having these 2 defensive Traits with stunnbreaker trigger at the same time. I don’t think the 15sec difference in cd will do the trick…

(sorry for bad english :S)

If you traited for Gale Song you could blow all 3 stunbreaks on a single CC!

cgMatt.5162:

Rei Ayanami.7968:

Gaile Gray

Final Shielding: The cooldown of this trait has been reduced from 75 to 60 seconds The health threshold for activating Arcane Shield has been increased from 25% to 50%.

Earth’s Embrace also triggers at 50% life, a lot of Fresh Air Scepter Ele play with Air, Earth and Arcane. (not only in PvP)
I Hope u considered this… because it is useless having these 2 defensive Traits with stunnbreaker trigger at the same time. I don’t think the 15sec difference in cd will do the trick…

(sorry for bad english :S)

If you traited for Gale Song you could blow all 3 stunbreaks on a single CC!

Take tempest defense and blow that one too!!

But really, Final Shielding is almost better at 25% health, imo, as I am not too worried about dying immediately at 50% health, and can probably water-swap heal. At 25%, I am looking to disengage, and maybe blowing my signet heal if I choose that.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• New PvP-only Rune: Rune of the Lynx: +175 power, +100 Condition Damage, +25% Movement Speed
  • We’re looking to add a viable damage-oriented movement speed rune to help professions with minimal access to in-combat movement speed or swiftness. This may impact match pacing, so we’re going to keep a close eye on it.

It would be really nice to see those runes in other Game-Mods too. Because atm only the rune of traveler is viable with +25% movementspeed effect. but its all-stat, so it is not the best option for every build…

apharma.3741:

Kastiel.1947:

BlackBeard.2873:

sophiewhite.3149:

Zintrothen.1056:

"

For all those complaining that power Rev will no longer be viable, awesome!

for this statement alone im looking forward to your classes being nerfed too hard.

Honestly, I don’t want ANY class to be nerfed too hard. I know what that is like (Ele circa winter 2013) – it isn’t fun and causes people to leave the game.

However, Rev had some extremely OP aspects that needed to nerfed. It may need subsequent buffs to counteract some of its weaknesses (like condi), but its hard to know before seeing the impact of nerfing the OP stuff. I would hope if they are a little UP, they get some buffs (in other places, like sustained damage) in the next patch. However, a class can’t be buffed reasonably without first getting rid of something OP if that is the main thing carrying it.

From the extremely reasonable responses of Cal (who actually seems to have a clue about roles and holes), I would have more hope going forward. Good to see.

Could you stop acting like this is the first nerf Revs got ? We were op in s1 but since than it’s been a year of nerfs .. hell condi Mesmer is both easier to play and more op than power rev yet no one say anything about it

And yet rev has been a staple requirement on all ESL teams since HoT as well despite these nerfs and is a very widely used class in WvW too though it’s weakness to condi limits it’s solo roaming in small groups it’s deadly.

Staff for revenant is a healing and defensive weapon, it was clearly described as this when it was first previewed even before HoT back when rev didn’t have weapon swap either. A skill on a defensive weapon set that does all it does and can take off half your health bar is objectively overpowered. If this skill was on any other class half the people here would be clapping their flippers together going “nerf nerf nerf” like seals.

Guess what though ? UA and SotM both didn’t have evades in the beta , and without them not only they didn’t make sense but they also sucked so bad that devs added evade to all of them to make them viable. And like you mentioned yourself we are very vulnerable to condi . And meta is plagued with condi builds. Before those changes at least I had a chance to take down the opponent before their condis melt me , now I’m pretty sure the burst won’t be enough .
And idk , last I checked scrapers had like 2 skills on their bar at least that “do everything”, traited dh traps come to mind too, Mesmer shatters (traited again ), etc . Let alone other colossal strengths like a full shroud on necro.
And moving on from SotM, wtf the nerf to PS? I mean you literally need to be inside the hit box of a person for all 3 blades to hit the same person , plus say hello to all the illusions/pets/minions/other players that WILL get in your way . And after bypassing all those obstacles , I will now rewarded with a spaghetti slap?
Basically if those nerfs go though, my best offensive strategy now is pop quickness and auto-attack , great …

Well since you finally ran power rev into the ground, it will be another full blown condi/bunker meta with mesmers reigning supreme. After skipping last season, I thought I’d try S5 and check out the changes but I’m forced to play classes I don’t even enjoy playing. /gg

Why would anyone pick a revenant in S5/ on their team?
Roaming – thief is waaaaaaaaaay more mobile AND does higher burst; Mesmer is a better option too
Damage – at least half of the professions will do more
Defence (bunker) – ele, druid, scrapper or guard are much better
This is wrong :/

Kastiel.1947:

Flumek.9043:

Kastiel.1947:

This is the 3rd nerf to SotM ! As someone pointed out earlier , the skill will be doing 36!! % damage of what it used to at launch , that’s pathetic ..Let’s not forget that it’s highly telegraphed and easily dodgeable/blockable.

Im not asking for a public shaming but can a mod just silently remove this person? Thank you

a rev does that right in your face

Seems like you discovered how to use SotM! Awesome!

Pro tip: You can sometimes use it too from a certain range against static targets (stomping/rezzing for instance)

Krysard.1364:

Kastiel.1947:

Flumek.9043:

Kastiel.1947:

This is the 3rd nerf to SotM ! As someone pointed out earlier , the skill will be doing 36!! % damage of what it used to at launch , that’s pathetic ..Let’s not forget that it’s highly telegraphed and easily dodgeable/blockable.

Im not asking for a public shaming but can a mod just silently remove this person? Thank you

a rev does that right in your face

Seems like you discovered how to use SotM! Awesome!

Pro tip: You can sometimes use it too from a certain range against static targets (stomping/rezzing for instance)

Well if it’s being used for either cc or defensively it will not be right in your face . Idk but I don’t seem to struggle to not get hit by it and neither do a lot of people in this thread , so .. May be just practice ?
Pro-tip. The blind from the facet is much better for stomping and if you just gonna damage down the fallen , quickness+auto is a better option . But yeah for preventing someone from stomping /rezzing – oh sword pull , sotm, chaos release and shiro ult all do nicely

i like thief sword buff. Maybe Sizer the Acrobat will be back

Well at least it wasn’t another all out hammer nerf on Mesmer.