Guild Wars 2

Not to long ago the public was asked to vote for profession locking, which would disable the ability to swap classes before the match started to improve matchmaking. At first it was winning, but then people took it the wrong way and on reddit people were asked to vote NO, thus fabricating the true results of the poll.

The poll itself really did not explain properly what it was for, and it even seemed voting YES would be a negative.

If this poll had succeeded, instead of having an account MMR you would have one for each profession. This would allow you to queue up on an alt and earn your own ranking again. You would also have profession specific leaderboards, probably being the best PvP feature to ever come to the game.

But, unfortunately people took this as a negative because they felt they needed to swap in order to win. Let’s face the honest truth here, no matter what rating you are in your alt is not going to be better than someone elses main.

If I play elementalist for 4000 hours and I’m in Gold Rating, I highly doubt someone in the same rating as myself is going to perform just as good as I will with only 200 hours on their elementalist. I am more likely to lose rating if I swapped to another class, than to simply remain on my elementalist even if we had 2 of them on the same team.

I’ve played 12 games so far this season, and I’ve already encountered at least 3 matches where my team was heavily stacked on one class. Not a single person swapped because presumably, they felt they were not skilled enough with any other class and would likely harm the team if they swapped.

Developers, you have the stats. You should see how many people actually swap on a stacked team, and I am willing to bet that those who swap are more likely to lose than those who do not.

Please reconsider implementing profession specific leader-boards in the future. Because as it stands, it makes no sense at all to multi-class. If I’m going to queue up on my revenant, I’m expected to lose 10-12 games in a row ruining the experience of all those players because quite frankly, I’m simply not gold worthy on my revenant.

Guild Wars 2 as far as I know is the only game for MMORPGS that uses an account bound MMR and not profession/hero specific. So you’re essentially trapped into only playing your main.

Profession-specific MMR would not solve this problem. Adding a matchmaking factor for unique professions would not solve this problem.

The negative consequences for profession locking were real and noticeable. The positive benefits were vastly overstated and unlikely to ever become real.

Exedore.6320:

Profession-specific MMR would not solve this problem. Adding a matchmaking factor for unique professions would not solve this problem.

The negative consequences for profession locking were real and noticeable. The positive benefits were vastly overstated and unlikely to ever become real.

Did you even read my post?

The issue is I feel trapped into playing one class because of the account based MMR.

People aren’t swapping now even when it is allowed to swap professions before the match start. So locking the professions isn’t going to change anything except a lot more freedom for those who like to play multiple classes.

I’m at the point where I will buy multiple account just to get separate MMR for each class… but they have that terrible rank 30 requirement making it unreasonably grindy

Chase.8415:

Did you even read my post?

The issue is I feel trapped into playing one class because of the account based MMR.

Yes. You’re complaining that people don’t want to swap to fix team comps. You assume that’s because they’re not equally skilled at another profession. You also assume that skill differential between professions is huge.

So your argument is already on weak footing. But here’s where your argument falls apart: Let’s say there was profession locking and profession-based MMR and you played something else. Then you get a team with a bad comp. You’re back to the original problem, except now no one can switch to make the comp better. THAT is why people came to their senses and voted “no”.

I am also very disappointed in the fact that 47% of the voters voted for yes.

Chase.8415:

Not to long ago the public was asked to vote for profession locking, which would disable the ability to swap classes before the match started to improve matchmaking. At first it was winning, but then people took it the wrong way and on reddit people were asked to vote NO, thus fabricating the true results of the poll.

The poll itself really did not explain properly what it was for, and it even seemed voting YES would be a negative.

If this poll had succeeded, instead of having an account MMR you would have one for each profession. This would allow you to queue up on an alt and earn your own ranking again. You would also have profession specific leaderboards, probably being the best PvP feature to ever come to the game.

But, unfortunately people took this as a negative because they felt they needed to swap in order to win. Let’s face the honest truth here, no matter what rating you are in your alt is not going to be better than someone elses main.

If I play elementalist for 4000 hours and I’m in Gold Rating, I highly doubt someone in the same rating as myself is going to perform just as good as I will with only 200 hours on their elementalist. I am more likely to lose rating if I swapped to another class, than to simply remain on my elementalist even if we had 2 of them on the same team.

I’ve played 12 games so far this season, and I’ve already encountered at least 3 matches where my team was heavily stacked on one class. Not a single person swapped because presumably, they felt they were not skilled enough with any other class and would likely harm the team if they swapped.

Developers, you have the stats. You should see how many people actually swap on a stacked team, and I am willing to bet that those who swap are more likely to lose than those who do not.

Please reconsider implementing profession specific leader-boards in the future. Because as it stands, it makes no sense at all to multi-class. If I’m going to queue up on my revenant, I’m expected to lose 10-12 games in a row ruining the experience of all those players because quite frankly, I’m simply not gold worthy on my revenant.

Guild Wars 2 as far as I know is the only game for MMORPGS that uses an account bound MMR and not profession/hero specific. So you’re essentially trapped into only playing your main.

READ THIS:

Velimere.7685:

To start, here was my initial query therein that topic:

Have you guys considered a middle ground where players cannot swap to a class already selected by another player on the same team to prevent class-stacking while still allowing counter-comping?

Basically, if ArenaNet wants people to take PvP seriously, why can’t they just enforce no class-stacking and be done with it? That’s my consideration, so let me elaborate on ideal implementation:

• Matchmaking never puts more than one of the same class on a team, and people swapping classes after entering a match cannot change to a class already occupying a spot on their team.
• When you go to queue for a match, based on other people queuing, you are given estimated queue times per profession, essentially telling you what’s lacking the most.
• This would further serve to encourage multi-classing which would further serve to help everyone’s queue times just like in other games where learning learning multiple “champions” is important.
• If you also want to take away counter-comping, then my suggestion is to only prevent swapping during season play (or just in ranked). As long as players have the reassurance that they’re not gonna get class-stacked, they should have far less qualms against this restriction when the PvP season is in session.
• Another quality-of-life change would be to eliminate the “double loading screen” players experience when swapping characters while in a match.

In my opinion, “profession locking” is nothing but a band-aid that doesn’t actually fix anything; it’s merely a perceived fix to someone who hates class-stacking but doesn’t actually sit there and think through what it effectively does, because it doesn’t actually prevent class-stacking caused by matchmaking and only serves to prevent counter-comping. An actual fix (or rather, help) to matchmaking is what I’ve outlined above.

The poll wasn’t for proffesion leaderboards/rating

bsandro.7428:

bsandro.7428:

Does it mean that class swithing during the match will be unavailable in both cases?

Yes. We will disallow swapping characters once the 10 second countdown begins. This prevents things like playing 95% of a match and then swapping for profession achievements.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Supreme.3164:

You should stop people from changing class after pressing “accept” on the queue

This is what the poll is for.

What the poll result doesn’t address are the reasons why people voted what they did.

A lot of people voted NO because they like to swap classes to strengthen their comp or to look for some hard counters. These players will always vote NO.
Some of us, on the other hand, are on a completely different page. We like the idea behind class locking and the new opportunities it delivers (like class based rating and leaderboards), but we can’t afford to vote YES under the current huge disparities on comp realiance and hardcountering between different classes. We voted NO because we find imbalances in this regard quite obvious and we think those should be addressed first. Making the poll before the class balance patch doesn’t help either (I would have not changed my vote tough. The patch did next to nothing about my concerns).

I hope they take some time to read and analyze the whole thread, because I’m fairly sure the poll would experience a significative shift if some side issues would be adressed.

People are dumb what more can be said really. Yep some clown is going to save the day by swapping to a class he has 20% of the experience on as his main because of a class stack. I mean for most players that idea is ludicrous. Never mind a good chunk of the time people don’t switch out of a problematic stack anyway. People didn’t think this through properly and a fear based propaganda campain heavily influenced the results so what would have been some neat additions to spvp got removed.

I think the vast majority of the people that voted “no” don’t oppose having profession leaderboards, or even profession-based MMR.

The problem is just that the game currently isn’t at a state of balance where you can reliably 1v1 every single profession on every single class. There are hard-counters in this game, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you have, for example, two engineers on your team versus two necromancers … or three guardians on your team versus three warriors. These match-ups happen regularly, and they’re almost always a guaranteed loss.

Disparity in skill level will help you overcome match-ups … to a point. But in Plat 2/3, games are frequently won and lost only by one’s team composition. You can rotate as well as anyone, but a necromancer should never lose to an engineer in any circumstance, or a warrior to a guardian.

Once classes are balanced without hard-counters in mind, we can maybe revisit the topic of profession-based MMR and class-locking.

Until then, I don’t see why we can’t have a profession-based leaderboard in the current system.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think the vast majority of the people that voted “no” don’t oppose having profession leaderboards, or even profession-based MMR.

The problem is just that the game currently isn’t at a state of balance where you can reliably 1v1 every single profession on every single class. There are hard-counters in this game, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you have, for example, two engineers on your team versus two necromancers … or three guardians on your team versus three warriors. These match-ups happen regularly, and they’re almost always a guaranteed loss.

Disparity in skill level will help you overcome match-ups … to a point. But in Plat 2/3, games are frequently won and lost only by one’s team composition. You can rotate as well as anyone, but a necromancer should never lose to an engineer in any circumstance, or a warrior to a guardian.

Once classes are balanced without hard-counters in mind, we can maybe revisit the topic of profession-based MMR and class-locking.

Until then, I don’t see why we can’t have a profession-based leaderboard in the current system.

But thats not really true. Most people aren’t good enough on there alts for the counter comp to actually work except for probably the top couple percentage point of players or so. You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous. People have pie in the sky notions about how good they are on alts. Unless you have very close to equal playing time on another class you won’t be nearly as good on it.

OP so you want to see kittened up 4 thief games ok….

steelheart.7386:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think the vast majority of the people that voted “no” don’t oppose having profession leaderboards, or even profession-based MMR.

The problem is just that the game currently isn’t at a state of balance where you can reliably 1v1 every single profession on every single class. There are hard-counters in this game, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you have, for example, two engineers on your team versus two necromancers … or three guardians on your team versus three warriors. These match-ups happen regularly, and they’re almost always a guaranteed loss.

Disparity in skill level will help you overcome match-ups … to a point. But in Plat 2/3, games are frequently won and lost only by one’s team composition. You can rotate as well as anyone, but a necromancer should never lose to an engineer in any circumstance, or a warrior to a guardian.

Once classes are balanced without hard-counters in mind, we can maybe revisit the topic of profession-based MMR and class-locking.

Until then, I don’t see why we can’t have a profession-based leaderboard in the current system.

But thats not really true. Most people aren’t good enough on there alts for the counter comp to actually work except for probably the top couple percentage point of players or so. You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous. People have pie in the sky notions about how good they are on alts. Unless you have very close to equal playing time on another class you won’t be nearly as good on it.

There are such extreme cases of comp reliance and hard countering that you don’t need to play your alt nearly as good as your main to get better results.

steelheart.7386:

You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous.

They didn’t make a decision based on the top 3-5%. They did an open poll and people answered.

Like I said already, if people want profession leaderboards, we can have them. Players are now locked to professions at the start of each match. While there’s still account-based MMR, you can simply keep track of the highest rating achieved on each profession quite easily just by following what games they win on what classes.

And just because I only have like 10% the games played on warrior that I do on engineer, it doesn’t change the fact that I’ll have an easier time fighting necromancers with my warrior than I would on engineer.

Actually what a lot of people didnt realize is that the reason they shot the poll down, actually will keep that reason for ever happening.

Basically the biggest thing I have heard, is that they wanted ANET to address class stacking in matches prior to presenting this poll to us. So I ask you to stop and think about this for one minute.

This poll actually HAD to come first, and it HAD to go through in order for them to address class stacking. There is no reason to do anything if players are allowed to change thier class after the queue. You see the matchmaker can try to balance and not put more then one class on a team, and then a player can switch to the class that the matchmaker originally balanced.

If its not locked people can move to classes thusly unbalancing all the matchmakers hard work.

However I do want to say this. The outcome of the poll being shot down is, it helped people that were more hard core PvPers, at levels above gold. From my understanding that is not the majority.

I know that new people in pvp and most average pvpers do not come to these boards. There was no mention of the poll in game, PvPers didnt get letters to thier accounts like they did for WvW, and so I question whether this poll really represented new players and average players.

In my mind it catered specifically to the people that come to these boards or go to reddit, and sadly I don’t think that was a majority. In fact the new people to pvp have no voice and I feel for them.

The removal of the Ascended armor, and changing it to a token.
The lack of class locking so that new players who dont have the knowledge or the characters ready to go to switch to, puts them at a disadvantage.
The ending of tournaments and lack of Pro-league players streaming GW2 anymore..

These are all changes that has me concerned about the population of PvP.

My questions is, respectfully, who are you making this game for. Please consider these items all in one stream together. Sometimes you will have to go against what these boards cry about adn do what is best for the health of the game.

I am definitely a GW2 and PvP supporter and I think this game is fantastic, but please read over my points and consider them heavily.

steelheart.7386:

You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous.

League of Legends makes balance divisions based on what is being played in high platinum and low diamond. That already comprises of less than 10% of all active ranked players, and probably less than 1% of all players.

I don’t have the source right now, but I will dig it up if needed.

steelheart.7386:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I think the vast majority of the people that voted “no” don’t oppose having profession leaderboards, or even profession-based MMR.

The problem is just that the game currently isn’t at a state of balance where you can reliably 1v1 every single profession on every single class. There are hard-counters in this game, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you have, for example, two engineers on your team versus two necromancers … or three guardians on your team versus three warriors. These match-ups happen regularly, and they’re almost always a guaranteed loss.

Disparity in skill level will help you overcome match-ups … to a point. But in Plat 2/3, games are frequently won and lost only by one’s team composition. You can rotate as well as anyone, but a necromancer should never lose to an engineer in any circumstance, or a warrior to a guardian.

Once classes are balanced without hard-counters in mind, we can maybe revisit the topic of profession-based MMR and class-locking.

Until then, I don’t see why we can’t have a profession-based leaderboard in the current system.

But thats not really true. Most people aren’t good enough on there alts for the counter comp to actually work except for probably the top couple percentage point of players or so. You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous. People have pie in the sky notions about how good they are on alts. Unless you have very close to equal playing time on another class you won’t be nearly as good on it.

Do you have any proof of this or are you just spouting nonsense as fact?

So we should disregard the highest and most complex lvl of play for the people that don’t understand the game, play it casually, and have no REAL investment in the game mode? Now THAT’S ludicrous.

How can you tell which is some one’s main and which is their alt before they switch? Do people exclusively queue on their “Main?” Only switching to alts?

I truly truly hope you understand that profession specific leaderboards are not mutually exclusive (as anet would like you to believe) with CHARACTER LOCK (which is what the poll was ACTUALLY about, Anet could go alonggggggggggggggggggg way by not wording and disguising intentions / polls in ways that they KNOW will be misunderstood, thats just bad kittening taste).

charchar.2149:

OP so you want to see kittened up 4 thief games ok….

Just for clarity’s sake, REGARDLESS of poll outcome, Anet was not going to introduce class stack prevention in the MM unless you put a gun to their head. That was an idea made up by the player base and ASSUMED (logically so, even bronze players can realize that CLASS STACKING and not CHARACTER SWAPPING is one of the defining pitfalls of ranked) that it would be implemented, they voted YES for something that was not even on the table, because of how UTTERLY POORLY (unless designed that way, I see you anet) the poll was worded. It is the same tactics employed by the GOP, just turn on ANY news stream other than FOX.

Ruru.1302:

steelheart.7386:

You can’t make decisions based on the top 3-5% of players. Thats ludicrous.

League of Legends makes balance divisions based on what is being played in high platinum and low diamond. That already comprises of less than 10% of all active ranked players, and probably less than 1% of all players.

I don’t have the source right now, but I will dig it up if needed.

For the most part this is the rule of thumb for balancing, in all of the competitive PvP games, outside of GW2 that I plays.

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Something really does need to be done about the class-stacking problem, though; I’ve had 4 matches since S6 started that had 3 Thieves vs 3 Guards. 4 matches like that! There has to be some way to break those up!

I am disappointed as well.

People don’t seem to realize either:

Apex predators would HAVE to be weeded out pretty quickly, and harder counters would have been reduced overall. Which is good when you consider the balance, and would be healthier if we insist on conquest.

OR

people would have had to queue for a team role. Which would have been fine.

Both of the above options btw open up more build diversity.

Yes if we class locked, and nothing changed the game would likely die. But if that is the case, and nothing was done about it, than fine. It would have deserved to die.

angrypenguin.1839:

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Yeah, so the idea to get good with other classes is to queue ranked with them and lose most of your matches until it evens out then right?

How exactly is this fair to the other 4 members on my team?

Chase.8415:

angrypenguin.1839:

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Yeah, so the idea to get good with other classes is to queue ranked with them and lose most of your matches until it evens out then right?

How exactly is this fair to the other 4 members on my team?

There’s a place called unranked. There’s also a place called custom arenas and 1v1 arenas. You can go to those places to practice until you are proficient enough with your new class.

However, If you want to be an kitten to your teammates, that’s your prerogative.

Vicky.4563:

Chase.8415:

angrypenguin.1839:

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Yeah, so the idea to get good with other classes is to queue ranked with them and lose most of your matches until it evens out then right?

How exactly is this fair to the other 4 members on my team?

There’s a place called unranked. There’s also a place called custom arenas and 1v1 arenas. You can go to those places to practice until you are proficient enough with your new class.

However, If you want to be an kitten to your teammates, that’s your prerogative.

What a great place to learn! I hadn’t thought of this before, thanks.

In case you didn’t catch the sarcasm, unranked matches actually have a separate MMR and I’ve seen completely new players group on my team; it doesn’t matter if I play a new class or not these people I am facing against is like slaying wounded animals.

If they could change unranked to display an estimated rating as if you were playing ranked, that would be amazing as well but I doubt they would do that.

Chase.8415:

Vicky.4563:

Chase.8415:

angrypenguin.1839:

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Yeah, so the idea to get good with other classes is to queue ranked with them and lose most of your matches until it evens out then right?

How exactly is this fair to the other 4 members on my team?

There’s a place called unranked. There’s also a place called custom arenas and 1v1 arenas. You can go to those places to practice until you are proficient enough with your new class.

However, If you want to be an kitten to your teammates, that’s your prerogative.

What a great place to learn! I hadn’t thought of this before, thanks.

In case you didn’t catch the sarcasm, unranked matches actually have a separate MMR and I’ve seen completely new players group on my team; it doesn’t matter if I play a new class or not these people I am facing against is like slaying wounded animals.

If they could change unranked to display an estimated rating as if you were playing ranked, that would be amazing as well but I doubt they would do that.

Yes…you go unranked. You slay wounded animals and keep winning until you start to lose. Then you keep playing until you start seeing known players. That’s when you’ve become decent and can probably start ranked.

Alternatively you go into a 1v1 arena and when you can beat 90% of the people in the duel rooms at any time, you’re good to go.

How the heck do you think everyone else managed to learn a new class in the 4 years the game’s been out?

Chase.8415:

Vicky.4563:

Chase.8415:

angrypenguin.1839:

If you are going to main a class that stacking can hurt the team, you really should become decent with a backup.

I am fairly new and main a thief and in the off season I got decent with a Warrior and to a lesser extent a Ranger.

Not every class gets hurt by having 1 or 2 others on the team.

Yeah, so the idea to get good with other classes is to queue ranked with them and lose most of your matches until it evens out then right?

How exactly is this fair to the other 4 members on my team?

There’s a place called unranked. There’s also a place called custom arenas and 1v1 arenas. You can go to those places to practice until you are proficient enough with your new class.

However, If you want to be an kitten to your teammates, that’s your prerogative.

What a great place to learn! I hadn’t thought of this before, thanks.

In case you didn’t catch the sarcasm, unranked matches actually have a separate MMR and I’ve seen completely new players group on my team; it doesn’t matter if I play a new class or not these people I am facing against is like slaying wounded animals.

If they could change unranked to display an estimated rating as if you were playing ranked, that would be amazing as well but I doubt they would do that.

I’m confused why you believe resetting your mmr and grinding it up again when moving to unranked is in ANY WAY different than doing the exact same thing on a new profession in ranked, which is what you vehemently defend in your OP when advocating for “professions specific mmr.”

Exedore.6320:

Chase.8415:

Did you even read my post?

The issue is I feel trapped into playing one class because of the account based MMR.

Yes. You’re complaining that people don’t want to swap to fix team comps. You assume that’s because they’re not equally skilled at another profession. You also assume that skill differential between professions is huge.

So your argument is already on weak footing. But here’s where your argument falls apart: Let’s say there was profession locking and profession-based MMR and you played something else. Then you get a team with a bad comp. You’re back to the original problem, except now no one can switch to make the comp better. THAT is why people came to their senses and voted “no”.

Our reasoning for a Yes vote has more merit than y’alls reasons for a No… now, here’s the fallacy with your reasoning.

• Every 3 games on average, we’ll have that 1 player swap to a different class. These are not assumptions. It’s basic statistics from my 30 games played this season alone.

• There has been no improvement on players wanting to swap classes in the last 4 seasons that I’ve participated in. It has been the same poor comp, poor matchmaking system since s3.

• On that same thread, Anet said they were going to look into altering matchmaking to take professions queuing into account.

Evan Lesh.3295:

“If we lock characters on queue, *we can do things like use profession-specific MMR, have profession leaderboards, etc.”* ["Etc means there’s more we can do.]

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.

In other words, matchmaking will attempt a non-class stacking solution first. When the queue lengthens, MM will then start to look at stacking professions.

A YES vote

• MMR would have been more accurate per player, per class.
• This leads to improved [healthier] Matchmaking experience overall.
• PvP would have been more competitive with Profession Specific leader boards.
• A big opportunity to alter the Matchmaking algorithm for improvements

A NO vote

• Matchmaking hasn’t, and will not improved.
• MMR accuracy hasn’t, and will not improved.
• There’s no new addition to the PvP scene.
• Little to no opportunities to alter the Matchmaking algorithms for improvements

Saiyan.1704:

Exedore.6320:

Chase.8415:

Did you even read my post?

The issue is I feel trapped into playing one class because of the account based MMR.

Yes. You’re complaining that people don’t want to swap to fix team comps. You assume that’s because they’re not equally skilled at another profession. You also assume that skill differential between professions is huge.

So your argument is already on weak footing. But here’s where your argument falls apart: Let’s say there was profession locking and profession-based MMR and you played something else. Then you get a team with a bad comp. You’re back to the original problem, except now no one can switch to make the comp better. THAT is why people came to their senses and voted “no”.

Our reasoning for a Yes vote has more merit than y’alls reasons for a No… now, here’s the fallacy with your reasoning.

• Every 3 games on average, we’ll have that 1 player swap to a different class. These are not assumptions. It’s basic statistics from my 30 games played this season alone.

• There has been no improvement on players wanting to swap classes in the last 4 seasons that I’ve participated in. It has been the same poor comp, poor matchmaking system since s3.

• On that same thread, Anet said they were going to look into altering matchmaking to take professions queuing into account.

Evan Lesh.3295:

“If we lock characters on queue, *we can do things like use profession-specific MMR, have profession leaderboards, etc.”* ["Etc means there’s more we can do.]

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.

In other words, matchmaking will attempt a non-class stacking solution first. When the queue lengthens, MM will then start to look at stacking professions.

A YES vote

• MMR would have been more accurate per player, per class.
• This leads to improved [healthier] Matchmaking experience overall.
• PvP would have been more competitive with Profession Specific leader boards.
• A big opportunity to alter the Matchmaking algorithm for improvements

A NO vote

• Matchmaking hasn’t, and will not improved.
• MMR accuracy hasn’t, and will not improved.
• There’s no new addition to the PvP scene.
• Little to no opportunities to alter the Matchmaking algorithms for improvements

Regarding your “fallacies”:
1. Removing the option to switch is not a solution to the problem of a garbage MM.
2. There is nothing preventing the implementation of profession leaderboards other than Anet. Profession leaderboards are not mutually exclusive to character lock.

Regarding the second half of your post:
“In other words, matchmaking will attempt a non-class stacking solution first. When the queue lengthens, MM will then start to look at stacking professions.”

Since the queue lengthens, and it will, due to more people playing certain professions than others, the match quality goes down. This means that the idea of a more accurate mmr holds no weight when considering the former. Last season I was in matches where teams (as in both in the match) had rating disparities of over 700. That WILL happen more this season, due to an even lower population. It was VERY common for me to be in games with 200 or 300 rating more than the next person on my team, because I was in plat 3 and/or legendary and there is, very simply, not enough people playing the game mode.

So overall I think your off base on essentially everything, you are seeing the trees before the forest. Anet will continue to work on the MM and match quality, and can take the MUCH needed time to prepare the game mode for such a system (a better one for sure), it’s just a matter of if they will and/or how many years it will take.

I am disappointed that we didn’t get a follow-up poll to solo/due queue as Anet stated.

I am disappointed that Anet restricts its polls to forum users only.

I am disappointed that I can’t seem to find anywhere anything official regarding the changes to S6 regarding: decay, min games etc.

Vicariuz.1605:

Saiyan.1704:

Exedore.6320:

Chase.8415:

Did you even read my post?

The issue is I feel trapped into playing one class because of the account based MMR.

Yes. You’re complaining that people don’t want to swap to fix team comps. You assume that’s because they’re not equally skilled at another profession. You also assume that skill differential between professions is huge.

So your argument is already on weak footing. But here’s where your argument falls apart: Let’s say there was profession locking and profession-based MMR and you played something else. Then you get a team with a bad comp. You’re back to the original problem, except now no one can switch to make the comp better. THAT is why people came to their senses and voted “no”.

Our reasoning for a Yes vote has more merit than y’alls reasons for a No… now, here’s the fallacy with your reasoning.

• Every 3 games on average, we’ll have that 1 player swap to a different class. These are not assumptions. It’s basic statistics from my 30 games played this season alone.

• There has been no improvement on players wanting to swap classes in the last 4 seasons that I’ve participated in. It has been the same poor comp, poor matchmaking system since s3.

• On that same thread, Anet said they were going to look into altering matchmaking to take professions queuing into account.

Evan Lesh.3295:

“If we lock characters on queue, *we can do things like use profession-specific MMR, have profession leaderboards, etc.”* ["Etc means there’s more we can do.]

“It’s hard to say what will happen to queue times if we enforce a hard limit on professions. The compromise is to let the profession limit increase over time.

In other words, matchmaking will attempt a non-class stacking solution first. When the queue lengthens, MM will then start to look at stacking professions.

A YES vote

• MMR would have been more accurate per player, per class.
• This leads to improved [healthier] Matchmaking experience overall.
• PvP would have been more competitive with Profession Specific leader boards.
• A big opportunity to alter the Matchmaking algorithm for improvements

A NO vote

• Matchmaking hasn’t, and will not improved.
• MMR accuracy hasn’t, and will not improved.
• There’s no new addition to the PvP scene.
• Little to no opportunities to alter the Matchmaking algorithms for improvements

Regarding your “fallacies”:
1. Removing the option to switch is not a solution to the problem of a garbage MM.
2. There is nothing preventing the implementation of profession leaderboards other than Anet. Profession leaderboards are not mutually exclusive to character lock.

Not sure how you’re basing your #1 point by previous season’s same, terrible, matchmaking quality. You have no proof of reason as to how a proffession based MM experience would be worse. Frankly, we’re both going by assumptions here but the biggest difference between mine and yours is, the current system has 5 previous seasons to go off of and their MM quality has been unchanged.

As for your #2, MMR is glued to per person and not per class. When matchmaking picks you, it’s the Rating number you represent.

So say you swap once you’re already in game, how is Matchmaking going to Rate that class when it 1) Picked the Player per his MMR?

Either ways, swapping to a class at start of game just changed the entire team’s rating average because Matchmaking has nothing to go by in terms of calculating each and every class. It needs to be a static system.

It’s precisely BECAUSE of the past season(s) truly terrible MMs that I make an educated guess that S6 is NOT going to be the magic season that MM is fixed. This is going to be a longer process than republicans agreeing on health care.

There are many ways that one could see his rating on a class advance, giving meaning to top stats, other than pips, at the same time. Gaining points, there are many ways to do this and leaves quite a broad spectrum for possible opportunities to increase your profession SR (in real time, not just at the end of the match), for your team could add to the SR grind, while playing X profession. There really are many ways to implement profession specific mmr and not lock your character.

Vicariuz.1605:

It’s precisely BECAUSE of the past season(s) truly terrible MMs that I make an educated guess that S6 is NOT going to be the magic season that MM is fixed. This is going to be a longer process than republicans agreeing on health care.

There are many ways that one could see his rating on a class advance, giving meaning to top stats, other than pips, at the same time. Gaining points, there are many ways to do this and leaves quite a broad spectrum for possible opportunities to increase your profession SR (in real time, not just at the end of the match), for your team could add to the SR grind, while playing X profession. There really are many ways to implement profession specific mmr and not lock your character.

Oh really? Can you provide a detailed description of the method of having profession specific ratings without locking character swap?

Because without it being locked, people will queue on their lowest MMR class and then swap to their main for easy wins to grind gold and rewards

Even if you removed the rewards people are still going to swap for easy matches, making it unfair for those in that rating.

arenanet is just stupid… it isn’t soo hard, ppl don’t want to block reroll before the match start , ppl want that matchmaking made 2 teams with no class stacking, it’s simple… no one reroll double guardian , triple teef and stuff , ppl want just to play their favorite class…

oh yes a MM that does never stack classes and then lock on Q …