Guild Wars 2

Why do most players hate when warrior is in their team?

I’ve read many threads about “warrior is a pvp joke” and “warrior is not competive”.

But couple days ago I’ve seen how players just intentionally lose because they have a warrior in teammates.

So, what did I see from arena:
1. Tons of pve warriors with gs, sword/axe, rifles
2. Tons of precision+ferocity warriors without ANY sustain nor defensive abilities (like endure pain).

These guys are going into arena and feed all the time. There’s really no benefit from them in teamfight. But this is a problem of players, not a class!

Also, i came to metabattle and didn’t find one of the most viable builds: full condi warrior.

I’ve checked this build after one of “joke warriors” just stunlocked me to death from 100 to 0 hp.

This build is hammer + mace/shield and there’s 8 stuns/knockdowns.
If such warrior gets close – and he gets – he can stun one target to death while interrupting most abilities. So if you do not have 2 stunbreakers – there’s no chance at all.

Yesterday I had lots of losses on a warrior and i found that people just do not realise what to do. They expect that warrior should rush into a fight and receive all damage while these guys just autoattack from safe distance. I was winning 1 vs 2 fight while 4 other teammates died from 3 opponents without killing anyone. Is this a problem of a warrior?

The biggest problem for stunlock condi warrior is a scrapper with massive stability stacks.

So My question is – why do you dislike warriors so much? Because it is simpler to dislike unskilled players.

tbh I don’t mid a warrior on my team in unranked. As a thief main I can relate to the qq it generates from playing such a class.

I think the reason people don’t like war as much is because it has very little team support. The lockdown you mentioned is great, but only single-target. So it should be good in a 1v1.

In theory

Mes can moa twice for 20s total, rev has so many more defensive mechanics, engi has a defensive move on every hammer skill….

I will agree a good war has an even chance at countering one of these in a 1v1

I’ve been teamed up with some amazing Warriors. I recently got teamed up with a guy, that managed to hold the enemy team at far for pretty much the entire game lol.

Another game I had a Warrior in the team, that happened to be one of the best players in the match. She/he had great rotations and knew exactly what they were doing.

This was all in Ranked too, when the enemy had Mesmers and Engis etc.

Tell me about it. I ran warrior and was the only person actually downing people. As soon as I leave the point to cover home, they could no longer win any fights. As soon as I show up their ele/bunker gets destroyed and I see my team just running around like headless chickens as I’m trying to finish off the downed ele instead of helping me.

We lost the game and I get blamed. Yes sustain on warrior is bad but that’s why I don’t rush in face first into fights and play a bit like a thief waiting for the right moment which usually isn’t longer than a few seconds since I’m baiting their dodges/stabo.

I love warrior and thief. They are the only classes who didn’t get buffed into the clouds and didn’t get stupidly OP mechanics added to them.

Playing a warrior or thief still requires skill.

I’ve been playing my warrior in Ranked pvp for a couple matches,went with a hammer/greatsword setup,couple of physical skills,and two other things.

If you have support behind you you’re golden. Nothing will stop you,you can completely lockdown an opponent. It’s not advised to roll a warrior without a support ele/druid with you though. ’Cuz as people have mentioned,they kind of lack in sustain and support.

Ruby/Diamond warrs tend to be above average (skill-wise). Queuing as a zerk warrior Diamond is essentially their legendary due to multiple reasons. I don’t really count condi warriors as warriors to be frank. I’d just rather play a different class than resort to condi meta as warrior. So, having warriors on your team under ruby/diamond doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll lose as they were good enough to get there. However, against equally skilled players warriors will just hold you back.

The only reason warriors go up ranks as of now is by drastically being more skilled than the other team/players. Once they reach a certain level of opponents carrying their own class becomes next to impossible. From there winning consistently comes about by either resorting to condi meta, or playing a different class. Personally, the largest issue of why this is is due to a lot of zerker warrior builds relying on escapes/speed for their sustain. Now playing Greatsword/sword(shield) warrior whenever I use my three escape skills the other class just catch up to me anyways. Anet needs to make warrior escape skills quicker, longer distance, and/or on a drastically lower cooldown in compensation for other classes’ mobility buffs for fun builds to be viable.

To 100% escape a fight you have to use every escape skill + pop rampage 5 rampage 3, manually disable rampage, use another sword escape (or replace rampage with bulls charge, 60s cd). Now the only sustain warrior has left is a 4-5 second endure pain, a corruptable beserker stance, a shield block, 2-4 dodges, then jump around wildly as you are targeted by everyone until death. Either that or go gunflame and hang out around a ledge.

Edit: This is playing without having the expansion. Maybe you can do something with taunt and/or the damage creep of the new trait line.

Ogre.3124:

Ruby/Diamond warrs tend to be above average (in talent). Queuing as a zerk warrior Diamond is essentially their legendary due to multiple reasons. I don’t really count condi warriors as warriors to be frank. I’d just rather play a different class than resort to condi meta as warrior. So, having warriors on your team under ruby/diamond doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll lose as they were good enough to get there. However, against equally skilled players warriors will just hold you back.

The only reason warriors go up ranks as of now is by drastically being more skilled than the other team/players. Once they reach a certain level of opponents carrying their own class becomes next to impossible. From there winning consistently comes about by either resorting to condi meta, or playing a different class. Personally, the largest issue of why this is is due to a lot of zerker warrior builds relying on escapes/speed for their sustain. Now playing Greatsword/sword(shield) warrior whenever I use my three escape skills the other class just catch up to me anyways. Make warrior escape skills quicker, longer distance, and/or on a drastically lower cooldown.

To 100% escape a fight you have to use every escape skill + pop rampage 5 rampage 3, manually disable rampage, use another sword escape (or replace rampage with bulls charge, 60s cd). Now the only sustain warrior has left is a 4-5 second endure pain, a corruptable beserker stance, a shield block, 2-4 dodges, then jump around wildly as you are targeted by everyone until death. Either that or go gunflame and hang out around a ledge.

The solution is not to buff warrior imo. I really love warrior as it is now, it’s not one of the spam-all-you-got classes, but a class that requires you to time your attacks, use strategic positioning.

Warrior was balanced in the pre-june 23, pre-HoT PvP scene. What is needed is to nerf HoT, before that we will never have balanced PvP again.

Ogre.3124:

Now playing Greatsword/sword(shield) warrior whenever I use my three escape skills the other class just catch up to me anyways. Anet needs to make warrior escape skills quicker, longer distance, and/or on a drastically lower cooldown in compensation for other classes’ mobility buffs for fun builds to be viable.

I disagree. I think Arenanet should bring warrior closer to the original vision, being a melee fighter which can stick to combat aka “be a man”, instead of being a cowardly hit and run profession. High mobility suits many other professions much better e.g. thief and ranger. The times when warrior could outrun pretty much anything with GS+sw/wh combo are luckily gone, that just plain dead ridicilous in WvWvW and lead to many cheap tactics.

Warrior needs to have it’s sustain to improved (and I mean real sustain, not running away), but at the same time Arenanet must slightly tone down warrior’s burst e.g. gunflame, or warrior could easily become as overpowered as the current meta builds (which should ALL be brought down).

Anyway, I think that zerk warrior should be at least reworked.

GS abilities are kinda so nice in pve, but most of them are almost useless in pvp.
His 1 doesn’t give a condition nor a boon.
His 2 should be used while moving – it’s very easy to avoid this ability with just an evade; every other class has some abilities that do not cancel on move and do tons of zerk damage while chanelling them.
His 3 is ok.
His 4 is useless.
His 5 is another version of 3.

GS lacks at least 2 damage/utility abilities.

So, i would be glad to play zerk warrior, but seems that he is the only class that doesn’t get any advantage of melee combat at all in zerk build.

Warriors suck. The weakness of the class is not the player’s fault, but choosing to play with it in ranked is.

If a warrior is able to pull his weight (and I have yet to find one for this season), then the player would be of much better use to the team with a better class.

So far, every warrior I had in the team was a full-blown liability that needed to be carried (if possible).

That is the simple truth, no matter how any forum white knights try to defend it.

Atomic.5840:

Why do most players hate when warrior is in their team?

I’ve read many threads about “warrior is a pvp joke” and “warrior is not competive”.

But couple days ago I’ve seen how players just intentionally lose because they have a warrior in teammates.

So, what did I see from arena:
1. Tons of pve warriors with gs, sword/axe, rifles
2. Tons of precision+ferocity warriors without ANY sustain nor defensive abilities (like endure pain).

These guys are going into arena and feed all the time. There’s really no benefit from them in teamfight. But this is a problem of players, not a class!

Also, i came to metabattle and didn’t find one of the most viable builds: full condi warrior.

I’ve checked this build after one of “joke warriors” just stunlocked me to death from 100 to 0 hp.

This build is hammer + mace/shield and there’s 8 stuns/knockdowns.
If such warrior gets close – and he gets – he can stun one target to death while interrupting most abilities. So if you do not have 2 stunbreakers – there’s no chance at all.

Yesterday I had lots of losses on a warrior and i found that people just do not realise what to do. They expect that warrior should rush into a fight and receive all damage while these guys just autoattack from safe distance. I was winning 1 vs 2 fight while 4 other teammates died from 3 opponents without killing anyone. Is this a problem of a warrior?

The biggest problem for stunlock condi warrior is a scrapper with massive stability stacks.

So My question is – why do you dislike warriors so much? Because it is simpler to dislike unskilled players.

amber mate?
war alone will die in 8 sec without rampage.
in any 3vs3,4vs4 he is allways first target.
if you are able to hold close,good for you.
you can carry your class with your skill hat on,but there are 5 other classes which will destroy you in socks.

Being the first target in a fight has a lot of advantages. You can control the flow of the enemy damage and allow you team to pressure multiple players simultaneously by your positioning.

Warrior can last vs several classes, but will just not kill them.

Many people just do not know how to play with a warrior. Similarly to how they do not know how to adjust to a thief. You actually have to play differently as a team.

Atomic.5840:

Why do most players hate when warrior is in their team?

I’ve read many threads about “warrior is a pvp joke” and “warrior is not competive”.

But couple days ago I’ve seen how players just intentionally lose because they have a warrior in teammates.

So, what did I see from arena:
1. Tons of pve warriors with gs, sword/axe, rifles
2. Tons of precision+ferocity warriors without ANY sustain nor defensive abilities (like endure pain).

These guys are going into arena and feed all the time. There’s really no benefit from them in teamfight. But this is a problem of players, not a class!

Also, i came to metabattle and didn’t find one of the most viable builds: full condi warrior.

I’ve checked this build after one of “joke warriors” just stunlocked me to death from 100 to 0 hp.

This build is hammer + mace/shield and there’s 8 stuns/knockdowns.
If such warrior gets close – and he gets – he can stun one target to death while interrupting most abilities. So if you do not have 2 stunbreakers – there’s no chance at all.

Yesterday I had lots of losses on a warrior and i found that people just do not realise what to do. They expect that warrior should rush into a fight and receive all damage while these guys just autoattack from safe distance. I was winning 1 vs 2 fight while 4 other teammates died from 3 opponents without killing anyone. Is this a problem of a warrior?

The biggest problem for stunlock condi warrior is a scrapper with massive stability stacks.

So My question is – why do you dislike warriors so much? Because it is simpler to dislike unskilled players.

Yes it is true that many people just blame others. This goes with any class but where does this hate come from?

It comes from high level play. You get into legendary and push for legendary 2-3-4+ everyone sees that warrior is simply out matched in 1 vs 1 situations, team fights, support and mobility. I wont go into all of it since i have made a post in the PvP section and the warrior section.

Also 2 things about the hammer/ mace-shield build.

1-This only works against bad players
Reasons for this is because they wont fight off the point. You can catch bad players who only fight in the circle and lack stability or dont know how to dodge roll at the right time. Otherwise people will use range weapons/knock back-stuns, slowing skills to force you to chase and you will lose the fight due to being out sustained.

2- Its a very selfish build
Against other high level players you will lose a 1 vs 1 running a weapon set with no ability top run. You also lose out on the other condi dmg that you would get with sword-torch which means you are only really applying confusion-bleeding,weakness and maybe a torment or poison on sigil or rune. Also you will struggle in team fights since you are not helping with boons, rezzes, and even dps. The condi damage is all burst damage and when there is a ele around you are not applying enough condi damage to really effect a team fight when you have a ele healing-removing condi, a engy healing and removing condi, a ranger healing and remvoing condi……………………..

I know you want o make it a non warrior thing but when you reach that ceiling it becomes a warrior thing even to the GW2 developers who make the joke that warriors can actually kill somebody in PvP.

Matisse.9356:

Warriors suck. The weakness of the class is not the player’s fault, but choosing to play with it in ranked is.

So what you actually want to say is that ArenaNet sucks in balancing. I agree.

Most complain about warrior of thief because thats what they read on some meta threads and just repeat it, they play BEST professions but have no idea how stomp and apply 0 damage to targets and die in 5 seconds mid after starting the game.

Ive seen some really good warriors. However i will say they tend to perform best when they are not focused and/or they have good team support. Thats when their DPS can really hurt someone. But also they tend to do better against people who are not used to fighting them.

They need to be a lot better than the person they are fighting.

So basically , any other class could do what they do and more with lower skill floor.

daw.4923:

amber mate?

Pretty rude dude. OP was asking people an opinion and most people responded with their views. You come in here and just start with an insult. Bad form mate.

Atomic.5840:

Why do most players hate when warrior is in their team?

I’ve read many threads about “warrior is a pvp joke” and “warrior is not competive”.

But couple days ago I’ve seen how players just intentionally lose because they have a warrior in teammates.

So, what did I see from arena:
1. Tons of pve warriors with gs, sword/axe, rifles
2. Tons of precision+ferocity warriors without ANY sustain nor defensive abilities (like endure pain).

These guys are going into arena and feed all the time. There’s really no benefit from them in teamfight. But this is a problem of players, not a class!

Also, i came to metabattle and didn’t find one of the most viable builds: full condi warrior.

I’ve checked this build after one of “joke warriors” just stunlocked me to death from 100 to 0 hp.

This build is hammer + mace/shield and there’s 8 stuns/knockdowns.
If such warrior gets close – and he gets – he can stun one target to death while interrupting most abilities. So if you do not have 2 stunbreakers – there’s no chance at all.

Yesterday I had lots of losses on a warrior and i found that people just do not realise what to do. They expect that warrior should rush into a fight and receive all damage while these guys just autoattack from safe distance. I was winning 1 vs 2 fight while 4 other teammates died from 3 opponents without killing anyone. Is this a problem of a warrior?

The biggest problem for stunlock condi warrior is a scrapper with massive stability stacks.

So My question is – why do you dislike warriors so much? Because it is simpler to dislike unskilled players.

I think of all HoT changes the Warrior seems to be near the bottom. And I like the War and play it and all the classes. As others have said it feels like it is lacking team support and not pulling its weight in fights. You can get some impressive numbers but to do so you seem to lack sustainability. Since War is master of all weapons it almost seems like it should be doing more when it closes. The condi side also seems to lacking since you are then more limited in your weapon selections. It also suffers from client server distance issues. If you have any sort of latency you can find your self missing even if you appear in range on your side.

Been trying to figure out what exactly would tip the balance for the class without making it OP. It seems the role they want it to be is the one-on-one killing machine, but it doesn’t have the output to fit that. One thing I am surprised didn’t become base was a movement speed increase, its suppose to be the menace, but what’s the point if it can’t get to the fight with any weapons its using. Also where a lot of classes defensive/escape abilities seem to have dual purposes, the War’s seem to be single focus in a number of cases. An no, banners are not a good substitute.

Long story short, it could use some love to make it more appealing over other options.
Reaper/Druid/Scrapper/DH/Rev can all do most of the same thing as War/Berserker but then bring additional group advantages in.

Had a War/Berserker yesterday that their whole game plan was they go where at least 2 other teammates are. There are good Warriors out there, but there are also a lot of bad ones too. Good hunting.

I know I will be flamed for this, but I think the most commonly used warrior weapons should not be buffed. In fact I would argue that Forceful greatsword trait is simply too good trait at the moment. It provides very good might stacking, 20 % CD reduction for spear/GS and also flat out 10 % dmg buff. The damage buff should be removed and it would still be better than many GM traits, while it is a master trait. GS has been the most popular warrior weapon for ages and GS/rifle and GS/hammer warriors are still pretty common combination in spvp. In WvWvW and pve GS is probably the most commonly used warrior weapon.

Gunflame damage is too high for its short cooldown and reasonably fast activation time. Tone down the gunflame damage by 20%, but don’t nerf any other rifle skills. Rifle will be in a good spot if warrior sustain is slightly buffed and other elite specs are toned down.

Warhorn needs helps as offhand shield + torch is clearly better for most circumstances. Condition mace/shield + sword/torch warrior is a fairly strong condition spec, albeit being selfish. Nobody is using mace/warhorn or axe/warhorn. And sword/warhorn is mainly used in pve for running together with GS. I don’t think anybody in their right mind would Sw/Wh+GS combo in spvp.

Here are some ideas to buff warhorn:
1a. Revert the quick breathing nerf and make it convert a condition into a boon instead of merely removing the condition
1b. Or alternatively make warhorn skills remove 2 conditions with quick breathing.
2a. Charge (warhorn #4) needs to have the swiftness duration increased to full 12-15 s, so warrior could have permanent swiftness without any additional investments. A melee warrior needs to be able to stick to its target or it is dead weight. Now so many professions have very high mobility, lots of teleport, stealth etc. This is all making melee warrior’s life more difficult.
2b. Call to Arms (warhorn #5) is too weak for 20 s skill. Merely giving 10 s vigor (after the vigor nerfs) + 6 s weakness is way too weak. It is mainly used as a blast finisher and cover condition. But what if warhorn #5 could be given a bit more offensive role e.g. also causing 2 seconds of 600 range AoE chill (max 5 targets). That could be used to mess up enemy heals and slow down fleeing enemies, but also defensively when warrior needs to flee.

Nerfing the shoutbow warrior was a bad move from Arenanet, because they basically killed the only valid spvp support build for the profession. Warrior can still dish out huge DPS, but all those builds are selfish or simply weaker than playing a D/F auramancer, druid, revenant, reaper or scrapper.

I would also do the following sustain changes to warrior/berserker:
1. “To the Limit” activation time reduced to 0.5 s and untraited CD reduced to 25 s. The total healing amount should be reduced by 20 % to compensate these changes and not make this heal overpowered. Now too many warriors run healing signet, but after these changes “To the Limit” should be viable in competitive settings and not be interrupted all the time.
2. Inspiring presence (tactics GM minor) also gives +20 % boon duration besides the current weak effect
3. Dead or Alive (berserker master trait) should activate even if the warrior is not in berserker mode and trigger berserker mode if it is not in cooldown.
4. Eternal champion (berserker GM trait) should give 1 stack of stability per 1 second or 3 stacks of stability per 3 seconds, because the current 1 stack per 3 seconds is just too little.

Warrior can be semi effective in low sapphire, but I bet any build (even pre-HoT) can work there. Here is my latest track record and it was only possible because I got lucky to get team mates, who knew how to rotate and enemy fell to my trolling at far (yes, I went to far and didn’t die there).

I had a necro /laugh at me yesterday for playing a warrior over and over…

But I was the only one who could fight outnumbered without downing…

Sirendor.1394:

I love warrior and thief. They are the only classes who didn’t get buffed into the clouds and didn’t get stupidly OP mechanics added to them.

Playing a warrior or thief still requires skill.

Ha! Got that right! We got the short end of the stick for TWO seasons now lol. Will it be THREE? We’ll find out soon!

Deniara Devious.3948:

I know I will be flamed for this, but I think the most commonly used warrior weapons should not be buffed. In fact I would argue that Forceful greatsword trait is simply too good trait at the moment. It provides very good might stacking, 20 % CD reduction for spear/GS and also flat out 10 % dmg buff. The damage buff should be removed and it would still be better than many GM traits, while it is a master trait. GS has been the most popular warrior weapon for ages and GS/rifle and GS/hammer warriors are still pretty common combination in spvp. In WvWvW and pve GS is probably the most commonly used warrior weapon.

Gunflame damage is too high for its short cooldown and reasonably fast activation time. Tone down the gunflame damage by 20%, but don’t nerf any other rifle skills. Rifle will be in a good spot if warrior sustain is slightly buffed and other elite specs are toned down.

Warhorn needs helps as offhand shield + torch is clearly better for most circumstances. Condition mace/shield + sword/torch warrior is a fairly strong condition spec, albeit being selfish. Nobody is using mace/warhorn or axe/warhorn. And sword/warhorn is mainly used in pve for running together with GS. I don’t think anybody in their right mind would Sw/Wh+GS combo in spvp.

Here are some ideas to buff warhorn:
1a. Revert the quick breathing nerf and make it convert a condition into a boon instead of merely removing the condition
1b. Or alternatively make warhorn skills remove 2 conditions with quick breathing.
2a. Charge (warhorn #4) needs to have the swiftness duration increased to full 12-15 s, so warrior could have permanent swiftness without any additional investments. A melee warrior needs to be able to stick to its target or it is dead weight. Now so many professions have very high mobility, lots of teleport, stealth etc. This is all making melee warrior’s life more difficult.
2b. Call to Arms (warhorn #5) is too weak for 20 s skill. Merely giving 10 s vigor (after the vigor nerfs) + 6 s weakness is way too weak. It is mainly used as a blast finisher and cover condition. But what if warhorn #5 could be given a bit more offensive role e.g. also causing 2 seconds of 600 range AoE chill (max 5 targets). That could be used to mess up enemy heals and slow down fleeing enemies, but also defensively when warrior needs to flee.

Nerfing the shoutbow warrior was a bad move from Arenanet, because they basically killed the only valid spvp support build for the profession. Warrior can still dish out huge DPS, but all those builds are selfish or simply weaker than playing a D/F auramancer, druid, revenant, reaper or scrapper.

I would also do the following sustain changes to warrior/berserker:
1. “To the Limit” activation time reduced to 0.5 s and untraited CD reduced to 25 s. The total healing amount should be reduced by 20 % to compensate these changes and not make this heal overpowered. Now too many warriors run healing signet, but after these changes “To the Limit” should be viable in competitive settings and not be interrupted all the time.
2. Inspiring presence (tactics GM minor) also gives +20 % boon duration besides the current weak effect
3. Dead or Alive (berserker master trait) should activate even if the warrior is not in berserker mode and trigger berserker mode if it is not in cooldown.
4. Eternal champion (berserker GM trait) should give 1 stack of stability per 1 second or 3 stacks of stability per 3 seconds, because the current 1 stack per 3 seconds is just too little.

Warrior can be semi effective in low sapphire, but I bet any build (even pre-HoT) can work there. Here is my latest track record and it was only possible because I got lucky to get team mates, who knew how to rotate and enemy fell to my trolling at far (yes, I went to far and didn’t die there).

I have to argue a few points, in your own post you talk about how warrior could do alot better with a minor sustain buff and other classes getting nerfed.

Thats alot to happen

You also mentioned certain weapons needing nerfed and damage reduction. I posted about warrior DPS and my complaints about it. Do you realize that that guardian DH bow skill 2, rev sword skill 2 and enchanting daggers and staff 5 and etc etc etc, a number of other skills does more damage then warrior beserk great sword skill F1?

I posted about how i did less then 2k damage and everyone said warrior dps is fine. Cute, when other classes do more damage and dont have to set it up its a problem.

Gun flame does a ton of damage but do you realize what you are shooting into? Eles magnetic aura from a shout-overload-warhorn 4 and a personal from focus. Not including mesmer reflects by trait, engy has a ton and its crap, warriors shield.

Im seriously tired of people posting ohhh ive had success but yes there is problems. This class has the worst sustain in the game and even when fully geared out in either condi or damage gear/runes/sigils it still does less damage then other classes.

warrior simply does no physical damage outside of gunflame..
which is why..people go burning condi more now…because it does damage..

lighter.2708:

warrior simply does no physical damage outside of gunflame..
which is why..people go burning condi more now…because it does damage..

Correct. Burning is still pretty strong even after nerfs.

In this meta Warroir is the frontline Bruser and a GS offers no Defences because a warroirs Utility is more for Improving a attack or increasing efforts to obsorb damage/stun break , in this case using a GS would be counter active it sacrifices all defence (apart from a whirl evade which isn’t enough)

resounding resistance works wonders if you take a Toughness stat amulet like Cleric or knights ect even the extra healing power improves ticks from both signet and trait ontop of that you’d be running 3k+ toughness without runes .

im not totaly 100% about warroirs but i know there are stun breaks in beserker mode which can be used to trigger Resounding resilance and has minor traits to improve damage.

simply using a axe+shield / Sword+sword or sword+mace gives dual defences medium to rapid attacks and high burst f1’s ontop of highly increased toughness + hp tick regen .

things like Mace+ shield hammer as soon as you swap to hammer you loose that block in favour for kd’s and stuns ect but those only last a few seconds leaving you open for onther 4-5seconds to all attacks unless you heavly invest in condi clears and use shouts to support which moves a warroir away from Bruser / frontline.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAne8ZnMdAlhg1kCmkCElilrAL5Ck1Wdvj2U7rFJAc1SdA-TZBFABhXGol9Hc4JAAwBBAhTAAA i’d think somthing like this will work wonders as a frontline fighter , Tremor ether a range after defending or Sunder leap+tremor>crushing blow or swap > Beserker mode axe f1 the target at this point has 20vun + you have Sigil of intelligence on f1 axe and stability so they won’t be able to force you away easly using the rage rotations provides high toughness all over and plenty of might for the team without needing to use GS.

plus the bonus is you’d have enough defences and Condi clears just by using the rotation and using Balanced stance for performing kill combos or using Headbutt as a Opener into the combo i mentioned above , then ether chose to use Sunder leap to gap close or save it and use Tremor instead.

sword+mace is the set up and the Axe+sheild is the Kill combo , it won’t do max damage right away as you’d need to build might first and apply the 20 vun but it has enough CC and skills to escape immobo lockdowns , even beserker mode can be used as a cleave immbo on sword F1 to help others by pinning them down.

rune options holbrek is a choice to lower condi durations but i’d prefer to use leadership with this build for the Elite skill to convert conditions , it could end up converting a condi to might boon which gives it to everyone through Phalanx strenght so a double bonus upon using headbutt , in close quarter combat , cure allies and buff them a little.
it could even convert a condi into regen which would put the warroirs regen ticks into overdrive.

and before people say what only 4% low crits ect , there are many ways to improve crits outside of stats , most rangers/druids do use spotter and there is plenty of fury going around in group fights plus a druid in the high end tend to also run % damag buffs , that ontop of a 20vun spike the overall damage of the build scales very quickly upto near Beserker f1 levels , thats enough to hard damage anyone down to 40% quickly.

i honestly don’t see warroir as bad but i do see the GS era is over it just sacrifices too much from traits to defence skills on the weapon over to being very limited to power type builds , leaving little sustain to survive in this meta.

kdaddy.5431:

I have to argue a few points, in your own post you talk about how warrior could do alot better with a minor sustain buff and other classes getting nerfed.

Thats alot to happen

You also mentioned certain weapons needing nerfed and damage reduction. I posted about warrior DPS and my complaints about it. Do you realize that that guardian DH bow skill 2, rev sword skill 2 and enchanting daggers and staff 5 and etc etc etc, a number of other skills does more damage then warrior beserk great sword skill F1?

I posted about how i did less then 2k damage and everyone said warrior dps is fine. Cute, when other classes do more damage and dont have to set it up its a problem.

Gun flame does a ton of damage but do you realize what you are shooting into? Eles magnetic aura from a shout-overload-warhorn 4 and a personal from focus. Not including mesmer reflects by trait, engy has a ton and its crap, warriors shield.

Im seriously tired of people posting ohhh ive had success but yes there is problems. This class has the worst sustain in the game and even when fully geared out in either condi or damage gear/runes/sigils it still does less damage then other classes.

Thanks for constructive comments. I think we are on the same page. I fully agree that the lack of sustain is the biggest problem of the warrior. The sustain is scattered all over into so many trait trees that if you spec all into sustain, your DPS will be really laughable and your sustain is still going to be worse off compared to top meta specs. On the other hand if you take all the offensive traits of the warrior + DPS weapons + DPS/burst sigils/runes, the DPS is actually pretty good, but not the best, but the sustain is just horrible. You will die against better teams for sure. I feel this is so wrong, warrior should be da man, able to last in combat, instead of being a hit and run profession. That role is mainly for thief and I don’t want warrior made into 2nd thief.

I forgot to include one buff to warrior sustain: increase the base heal of shouts by 200. It might not sound much, but if you make a full shout spec and the “To the Limit!” get its CD reduced to 25 (20 s traited), then we could get once again a bit more sustain, about 34 hp/s more. “On My Mark!” and “Fear Me!” could be have their CD lowered slightly e.g. from 30->25 s and 60->50 s (traited CDs would be 20 s and 40 s).

If you look at my post history, I have also asked Arenanet to nerf Dragonhunter longbow #2 damage. It is simply way too high for a piercing 4 s CD skill. Dragonhunter traps, at least the elite, should also be made more visible. Dozens or more DHs stacking traps in WvWvW makes the combat not fun at all. Revenant has multiple problems, but since my experience on playing that profession is so small, I don’t want to comment it too much.

Even I have spent most of my time playing an engineer and I currently play a scrapper engi in spvp, I agree that engineer hammer needs to be nerfed. A simple 20% CD increase for skills #2-5 won’t be enough as it would still be selected over rifle or pistol/shield. I don’t understand whey they gave engi hammer skills like #4, shock shield, which does good damage and blocks at same time. It should do either, but not both. The sneak gyro elite is also too powerful and needs to have an activation time, instead of being instant cast. At the same time I really hope Arenanet doesn’t nerf the core engineer. Core engineer isn’t really all that powerful compared to the rest of the meta or scrapper. And engi has skills, which would need some love (medkit and and most the gadgets outside slick shoes, which is powerful).

I am for Arenanet nerfing/toning down all the other elite specs. If they don’t do this, I am afraid even all of my suggestions won’t bring warrior back to meta.

I dont hate on warriors. In fact hating on a person for playing his class of choice is extremely stupid. In fact hating on anything in an online games is extremely stupid.

What does annoy me though is the severe discrepancy in skill level between opposing teams. It happens way too often for comfort. It would be OK if once or twice you end up with folks of low skill level, heck I wouldnt mind being grouped with them all the time because I acknowledge my own skill level as low. But when a team of such players is repeatedly pit vs folks who are obvious experts with the class they play. Who know how to focus someone down while your own team runs aimlessly, who know how to use the map to their advantage while your team is lost on the way to the points… That simply put, sucks. People of similar skill should play together, make mistakes together and gradually learn how to rotate, what to use and when. They can not learn while being stomped in seconds by heavy focused fire can they?

Matchmaking is so bad.

Deniara Devious.3948:

kdaddy.5431:

I have to argue a few points, in your own post you talk about how warrior could do alot better with a minor sustain buff and other classes getting nerfed.

Thats alot to happen

You also mentioned certain weapons needing nerfed and damage reduction. I posted about warrior DPS and my complaints about it. Do you realize that that guardian DH bow skill 2, rev sword skill 2 and enchanting daggers and staff 5 and etc etc etc, a number of other skills does more damage then warrior beserk great sword skill F1?

I posted about how i did less then 2k damage and everyone said warrior dps is fine. Cute, when other classes do more damage and dont have to set it up its a problem.

Gun flame does a ton of damage but do you realize what you are shooting into? Eles magnetic aura from a shout-overload-warhorn 4 and a personal from focus. Not including mesmer reflects by trait, engy has a ton and its crap, warriors shield.

Im seriously tired of people posting ohhh ive had success but yes there is problems. This class has the worst sustain in the game and even when fully geared out in either condi or damage gear/runes/sigils it still does less damage then other classes.

Thanks for constructive comments. I think we are on the same page. I fully agree that the lack of sustain is the biggest problem of the warrior. The sustain is scattered all over into so many trait trees that if you spec all into sustain, your DPS will be really laughable and your sustain is still going to be worse off compared to top meta specs. On the other hand if you take all the offensive traits of the warrior + DPS weapons + DPS/burst sigils/runes, the DPS is actually pretty good, but not the best, but the sustain is just horrible. You will die against better teams for sure. I feel this is so wrong, warrior should be da man, able to last in combat, instead of being a hit and run profession. That role is mainly for thief and I don’t want warrior made into 2nd thief.

I forgot to include one buff to warrior sustain: increase the base heal of shouts by 200. It might not sound much, but if you make a full shout spec and the “To the Limit!” get its CD reduced to 25 (20 s traited), then we could get once again a bit more sustain, about 34 hp/s more. “On My Mark!” and “Fear Me!” could be have their CD lowered slightly e.g. from 30->25 s and 60->50 s (traited CDs would be 20 s and 40 s).

If you look at my post history, I have also asked Arenanet to nerf Dragonhunter longbow #2 damage. It is simply way too high for a piercing 4 s CD skill. Dragonhunter traps, at least the elite, should also be made more visible. Dozens or more DHs stacking traps in WvWvW makes the combat not fun at all. Revenant has multiple problems, but since my experience on playing that profession is so small, I don’t want to comment it too much.

Even I have spent most of my time playing an engineer and I currently play a scrapper engi in spvp, I agree that engineer hammer needs to be nerfed. A simple 20% CD increase for skills #2-5 won’t be enough as it would still be selected over rifle or pistol/shield. I don’t understand whey they gave engi hammer skills like #4, shock shield, which does good damage and blocks at same time. It should do either, but not both. The sneak gyro elite is also too powerful and needs to have an activation time, instead of being instant cast. At the same time I really hope Arenanet doesn’t nerf the core engineer. Core engineer isn’t really all that powerful compared to the rest of the meta or scrapper. And engi has skills, which would need some love (medkit and and most the gadgets outside slick shoes, which is powerful).

I am for Arenanet nerfing/toning down all the other elite specs. If they don’t do this, I am afraid even all of my suggestions won’t bring warrior back to meta.

Regarding engi/scrapper. Of course the hammer would be picked over pistol/rifle etc. Its the weapon of the new spec. It has all that utility and dmg because the class itself doesnt have 2 weapons sets (I dont think kits count, they’re like an ele’s attunements).
Why would anyone want to buy HoT, unlock a scrapper and still use a pistol? Do you want the fate of the reaper for the scrapper? I was so excited man, greatsword for reapers! Heck yeah! Then it came and it was so awesome.. in pve. In pvp they laugh at you for even trying a gs and rightly so. It doesnt work. The scrapper’s hammer works in pve and pvp. Good job on that one Anet. Now if only you could make the necro GS work the same way. Bottom line, the hammer scrapper build offers those of us who like the melee approach, a new way to play an old class… and it can be countered just like any other build.

PS: You do realize the hammer build indicates more or less melee combat style right? Range, as in rifle and to a lesser degree pistol, provides its own layer of extra defence, i.e. you attack from range. And if a kit was to be the scrapper’s ranged option.. Sure try to stand 900f from a ranger/dh and exchange shots, see what happens. I see the engi as a long range initiator and mid range specialist with all the utility he has access to. I see the scrapper as a melee specialist.

Deniara Devious.3948:

kdaddy.5431:

I have to argue a few points, in your own post you talk about how warrior could do alot better with a minor sustain buff and other classes getting nerfed.

Thats alot to happen

You also mentioned certain weapons needing nerfed and damage reduction. I posted about warrior DPS and my complaints about it. Do you realize that that guardian DH bow skill 2, rev sword skill 2 and enchanting daggers and staff 5 and etc etc etc, a number of other skills does more damage then warrior beserk great sword skill F1?

I posted about how i did less then 2k damage and everyone said warrior dps is fine. Cute, when other classes do more damage and dont have to set it up its a problem.

Gun flame does a ton of damage but do you realize what you are shooting into? Eles magnetic aura from a shout-overload-warhorn 4 and a personal from focus. Not including mesmer reflects by trait, engy has a ton and its crap, warriors shield.

Im seriously tired of people posting ohhh ive had success but yes there is problems. This class has the worst sustain in the game and even when fully geared out in either condi or damage gear/runes/sigils it still does less damage then other classes.

Thanks for constructive comments. I think we are on the same page. I fully agree that the lack of sustain is the biggest problem of the warrior. The sustain is scattered all over into so many trait trees that if you spec all into sustain, your DPS will be really laughable and your sustain is still going to be worse off compared to top meta specs. On the other hand if you take all the offensive traits of the warrior + DPS weapons + DPS/burst sigils/runes, the DPS is actually pretty good, but not the best, but the sustain is just horrible. You will die against better teams for sure. I feel this is so wrong, warrior should be da man, able to last in combat, instead of being a hit and run profession. That role is mainly for thief and I don’t want warrior made into 2nd thief.

I forgot to include one buff to warrior sustain: increase the base heal of shouts by 200. It might not sound much, but if you make a full shout spec and the “To the Limit!” get its CD reduced to 25 (20 s traited), then we could get once again a bit more sustain, about 34 hp/s more. “On My Mark!” and “Fear Me!” could be have their CD lowered slightly e.g. from 30->25 s and 60->50 s (traited CDs would be 20 s and 40 s).

If you look at my post history, I have also asked Arenanet to nerf Dragonhunter longbow #2 damage. It is simply way too high for a piercing 4 s CD skill. Dragonhunter traps, at least the elite, should also be made more visible. Dozens or more DHs stacking traps in WvWvW makes the combat not fun at all. Revenant has multiple problems, but since my experience on playing that profession is so small, I don’t want to comment it too much.

Even I have spent most of my time playing an engineer and I currently play a scrapper engi in spvp, I agree that engineer hammer needs to be nerfed. A simple 20% CD increase for skills #2-5 won’t be enough as it would still be selected over rifle or pistol/shield. I don’t understand whey they gave engi hammer skills like #4, shock shield, which does good damage and blocks at same time. It should do either, but not both. The sneak gyro elite is also too powerful and needs to have an activation time, instead of being instant cast. At the same time I really hope Arenanet doesn’t nerf the core engineer. Core engineer isn’t really all that powerful compared to the rest of the meta or scrapper. And engi has skills, which would need some love (medkit and and most the gadgets outside slick shoes, which is powerful).

I am for Arenanet nerfing/toning down all the other elite specs. If they don’t do this, I am afraid even all of my suggestions won’t bring warrior back to meta.

Then warriors will walk out of pvp and the whole game. Do we really want gw2 without WARRIORS?

pepsis.5384:

I dont hate on warriors. In fact hating on a person for playing his class of choice is extremely stupid. In fact hating on anything in an online games is extremely stupid.

What does annoy me though is the severe discrepancy in skill level between opposing teams. It happens way too often for comfort. It would be OK if once or twice you end up with folks of low skill level, heck I wouldnt mind being grouped with them all the time because I acknowledge my own skill level as low. But when a team of such players is repeatedly pit vs folks who are obvious experts with the class they play. Who know how to focus someone down while your own team runs aimlessly, who know how to use the map to their advantage while your team is lost on the way to the points… That simply put, sucks. People of similar skill should play together, make mistakes together and gradually learn how to rotate, what to use and when. They can not learn while being stomped in seconds by heavy focused fire can they?

Matchmaking is so bad.

Welcome to the state of pvp. I really do hope this all gets fixed.

See I wonder how even small changes might impact the class. Example, why do they not have a base run speed increase in the core class. They are meant to be bruisers so they should have the speed to get into the fight. That alone would remove the need to have to use a trait line and or runes that grant run speed and allow them more diversity in builds.

Warrior’s don’t need a base run speed. With GS they are already very mobile and they can trait for perma 25% runspeed in discipline. Removing the requirement to spec into this traitline (or a certain weapon) for a particular attribute isn’t a good thing for build diversity—it removes the cost of trying to make the unachievable perfect build—something wich Karl actively prevented, but that balance philosophy seems to have been thrown to the wayside.

Warrior’s are fine—it’s the elite specs that need to be nerfed.

I’d rather them do something about the fact that we need a 45.2% on GS and a 32% dmg multiplier on all other weapons (that’s what you get from strength) to deal competitive damage. If nobody sees something wrong with that then idk what to say…

Salamander.2504:

Warrior’s are fine—it’s the elite specs that need to be nerfed.

Out of curiosity, what role do you see Warriors filling in today’s setup? Be it in PvP or WvW.

TheGrimm.5624:

Salamander.2504:

Warrior’s are fine—it’s the elite specs that need to be nerfed.

Out of curiosity, what role do you see Warriors filling in today’s setup? Be it in PvP or WvW.

What he means is that if you nerf all the elite specs down, warrior will again be able to take it’s role as a jack of all trades, who is good at dishing out damage, and good at taking it, but doesn’t excell in both at the same time without sacrificing either tankiness or damage.

Sirendor.1394:

TheGrimm.5624:

Salamander.2504:

Warrior’s are fine—it’s the elite specs that need to be nerfed.

Out of curiosity, what role do you see Warriors filling in today’s setup? Be it in PvP or WvW.

What he means is that if you nerf all the elite specs down, warrior will again be able to take it’s role as a jack of all trades, who is good at dishing out damage, and good at taking it, but doesn’t excell in both at the same time without sacrificing either tankiness or damage.

That pretty much sums it up. I won’t comment on WvW since I am a pure PvP’er and don’t leave HotM, but right now one of the issues brought up time and time again is that Rev fills the role of the warrior, but it just does it much better. My original point is that if you nerf Rev (and the elites), warrior all of the sudden becomes viable and can fill the same role its always filled.

Warrior should not get 25-33 % base speed without investing into it, but it should get it with relatively small investment. Now the easiest and most common way is to take warrior’s sprint trait, but it requires the warrior to take discipline trait tree, which most are taking any case because of fast hands. Now if you take also the berserker/strength/arms tree, you are left with just 1 defensive tree: tactics or defense, but you cannot take both. And warrior really needs to both of those defensive trees to have any sort of decent sustain.

Like I argued above warhorn should provide the warrior (+ its allies) permanent swiftness if traited, currently it doesn’t. Melee warrior needs mobility to be able to stick target. Warrior can be specced to be quite immune for immobilize/cripple/chill and this is indeed very powerful thing. You just take Hoelbrak runes + undogged march + warrior’s sprint and any weapon with leap skill, like 1-hand sword.

I agree that the untraited warrior DPS is really bad, but some of the warrior damage oriented traits are really powerful: forceful greatsword + berserker’s power easily increase the realistic damage output of GS by over 30 % (the real numbers depend how many might stacks you get). It works great in pve, but in order to enjoy the same in spvp, you need to forget one defensive tree.

My suggestion: is to slightly tone down some of the damage oriented traits and at the same time buff the base damage of the affected weapons. Thus the pve DPS would remain exactly the same, but in spvp/WvWvW the warrior could omit the DPS traits and go for more defense, yet dish out a bit more damage. The main culprit is still the lack of sustain, not the DPS or burst and warrior definitely has access to tons of CC Mace/shield+hammer combo alone has so much CC that enemies would be begging for more stun breaks/stability, yet I know things like blind spam and kiting/evading enemies will kill this build.

Also not all weapons need to be DPS, for example I think hammer is good as it: it is relatively slow and has low DPS, but it has more CC than any other weapon in the game, thus I think warrior’s hammer is balanced.

My thoughts about warrior role:
I don’t think warrior should be made into long range hit & run sniper, which Arenanet seems to be trying to make lately with the rifle buffs.

Warrior should be able to last a long time in fight, but it should not be the top dog when it comes to DPS. I think relatively squishy professions, like elementalist should always be able to be better than warrior in terms of pure DPS. That it is how it is most other games as well.

I think warrior should be able to sturdy and able to contest and fight other melee characters with relative ease e.g. warrior vs reaper warrior should win, currently warrior struggles vs reaper because reaper can apply so much condition spam (chill, blind, poison, bleeds, corrupt boons etc) + has relatively good access to stability + even mobility. Warrior should also beat melee thieves and have at least equal chances melee revenants, but I am fine if warrior has few weakness e.g. weak towards long range bruisers e.g. vs LB ranger or rifle engineer (well the ridiculous scrapper hammer made those extinct anyways).