Guild Wars 2

I specifically mention thieves because I don’t believe that mesmer stealth pose any major problem, same thing cannot be said for thieves.

My main issue is Initiative and here I want to stretch myself by saying that the mechanic itself is not evil, the core problem is the ability of thieves to easily refill the initiative bar, this greatly reduce the amount of counterplay , the margin of error is increased tenfold respect to any other profession this is why professions are being forced into specific builds by the thief class, while their margin of error increase..yours decrease, therefore you’re forced to increase your own margin of error by using other OP elements in the game.

With all this said and done, I’m not here asking to nerf thief to oblivion, neither I’m asking to remove the initiative mechanic.

Simply I think that thieves don’t get punished enough for a failed attack, this way they can reset the fight indefinitely; the initiative mechanic already remove that “CD strategy counterplay” which is common for most MMO and all other professions in this game.

So these are my proposals:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)
3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

Hopefully we’ll see more counterplay to stealth in general when HoT release, even though I still think that current reveal utilities have too high CD for the utility

Learn to play instead of crying

I would make chill effect initiative regen. I see this as a bug to be honest.

I know I change my build around when I see thieves on the other team – simply because of that annoying stealth. However, it does make it enjoyable watching them melt like butter.

I dislike stealth as a game mechanic. Its an annoying feature that you can make melee contact with something that’s invisible, but no feedback is given as to where you made the contact.

Every class is not using initiative that’s the problem and thief resetting is intended design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Please clarify regarding the above link.

While thief resetting is intended, and I personally don’t have any problem with thieves using initiatives at all, and I don’t think thieves are overpowered at this point of the game, I do know that thieves counter almost all berserker classes except meditation guardian by having stealth on demand. But then I don’t have any solution to that because I really don’t have a problem with thieves at all. Sure sometimes it seems unfair that thieves counter everything, but then thieves only have few variances and have access to no amulet other than berserker’s. Same can be said for the mesmer, but hard counters do exist in this game and hard counters can be overcomed with player skill level, so I really don’t know.

Personally I believe thieves have insane mobility that is way too strong compare to that of other classes, but again buffing or nerfing in this case is not an option as that insane mobility is not properly utilized by most thieves anyway. The only thing I can think of is give more emphasis on proper use of initiative by reducing the recharge rate, but that would slow down the game.

TheFamster.7806:

I do know that thieves counter almost all berserker classes except meditation guardian by having stealth on demand. But then I don’t have any solution to that because I really don’t have a problem with thieves at all. Sure sometimes it seems unfair that thieves counter everything, but then thieves only have few variances and have access to no amulet other than berserker’s.

Give more classes skills/ways to apply AoE revealed (like the guardian trap, even though guardian is the class that needs the LEAST help vs. thief) so that they can punish thieves for being predictable. In many cases, even when you know exactly what the thief is going to do, you are still screwed. Honestly, stealth in this game is OP, as there are so few methods to counter or punish it, and those skills that CAN counter it are generally pretty bad.

Personally I believe thieves have insane mobility that is way too strong compare to that of other classes, but again buffing or nerfing in this case is not an option as that insane mobility is not properly utilized by most thieves anyway.

If they would have changed instant ports to fail when you don’t have any LOS like they planned to, it would have been a great thing. As it is now, instant ports got even stronger, and I don’t think its a good thing in the long run.

TheFamster.7806:

While thief resetting is intended, and I personally don’t have any problem with thieves using initiatives at all, and I don’t think thieves are overpowered at this point of the game, I do know that thieves counter almost all berserker classes except meditation guardian by having stealth on demand. But then I don’t have any solution to that because I really don’t have a problem with thieves at all. Sure sometimes it seems unfair that thieves counter everything, but then thieves only have few variances and have access to no amulet other than berserker’s. Same can be said for the mesmer, but hard counters do exist in this game and hard counters can be overcomed with player skill level, so I really don’t know.

Personally I believe thieves have insane mobility that is way too strong compare to that of other classes, but again buffing or nerfing in this case is not an option as that insane mobility is not properly utilized by most thieves anyway. The only thing I can think of is give more emphasis on proper use of initiative by reducing the recharge rate, but that would slow down the game.

I love fighting them with med guard power or condi after trait changes it will be even better imo, it makes sense that thief counter most zerkers but there are still bunkers,cele bruisers and condi I don’t think I ever heard a MotD mesmer complain about thief. It’s very sad that only thief can use initiative.

Sagat.3285:

It makes sense that thief counter most zerkers but there are still bunkers,cele bruisers and condi

So you are saying it is a good thing that thief single-handedly makes 4/8 classes unable to fill a high-damage role (medi guards have almost as much sustain as a cele, thief is thief, cele engie is basically as much dps as a zerker build, and mesmers are taken at the highest level if their team is able to baby-sit them b/c portal is so strong) b/c it is strictly superior in every way? At the same time, every other player complains when most people play “low-risk” tanky/bruiser or condi builds b/c they have “too much passive sustain.” Thief is the lynch-pin that forces those things to happen, and it honestly makes the game way less interesting than it should be.

Having alpha predators that are strictly better than everyone else in every way leads to a very shallow and boring game.

I do agree, its not really a huge problem if the situation is “thief wins protracted 1v1’s with most other zerker builds.” The problem is, thief can completely delete other zerker builds from a game and spawn-camp them if they really want to, and there is NOTHING they can do about it if the thief is good.

“it makes sense that thief counter most zerkers”

i don’t know how that makes any sense and how it is healthy for the game in any way.

The ability to hit first in a glass vs glass fights is bound to favor thief, guard endures it due to burn and constant and instant active defense/recovery but may not kill the thief. I did say that there are bunker,bruiser and condi specs specs I’m no zerker fanatic or hater but I dislike when the conversation is all about highest burst. My necro runs the risk of getting pawned easily by a thief at start so I just have someone escort me home then I’ll go mid, if you see every counter from 1v1 point of view you’re in the wrong game.

Supreme.3164:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)

These two are fine…

Supreme.3164:

3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

This one is not. Initiative is a shared cooldown for all thief weapon skills. Chill should not cripple them more than it already does.

I dont know how you consider blocking an invisible attacker when they have unblockable attacks, or dodging an invisible attack “counterplay”, but w/e. You’d think that counterplay would be more active than just punishing the class in question for not playing perfectly. We can play perfect if we have enough experience, and once the above changes are settled in if they are accepted, we’ll be right back to “Thief bawww” again.

Not saying you’re crying, but; doesnt seem like a reasonable fix so much as a knee-jerk one that just addresses the superficial mechanic problem, rather than giving other classes means to expose thieves.

And, a note: Thieves do not counter most zerkers. Thieves counter all bad zerkers.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

1) 3s reveal on block
2) 1s reveal on missed attack ( dodge/blind etc etc)

These two are fine…

Supreme.3164:

3) Chill reduce Initiative regeneration

This one is not. Initiative is a shared cooldown for all thief weapon skills. Chill should not cripple them more than it already does.

I dont know how you consider blocking an invisible attacker when they have unblockable attacks, or dodging an invisible attack “counterplay”, but w/e. You’d think that counterplay would be more active than just punishing the class in question for not playing perfectly. We can play perfect if we have enough experience, and once the above changes are settled in if they are accepted, we’ll be right back to “Thief bawww” again.

Not saying you’re crying, but; doesnt seem like a reasonable fix so much as a knee-jerk one that just addresses the superficial mechanic problem, rather than giving other classes means to expose thieves.

And, a note: Thieves do not counter most zerkers. Thieves counter all bad zerkers.

Wait so all zerker memsers, eles, necros, engies, and rangers are bad…?

What I would like to see is Initiative regenerating way faster while attacking/using right skills at the right time and way slower when you stop attacking.

As for Chill, I would be okay if it simply added 1 more initiative cost to all weapon skills using it as a resource. Not 66%, because that would trash the thief, but slight increase cost.

if any class would make sense to counter any zerker out there…it should be full blown gs/axe+shield warri’s ps. eviscerate does truly need range 450 and a damage buff of 50% (no joke)

Oh look the Cult is at it again.

Don’t drink the cool aid gentlemen.

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

they are not smart enough to clear the condition’s so it doesn’t clear the fight for them

Highlie.7641:

they are not smart enough to clear the condition’s so it doesn’t clear the fight for them

i don’t recall thieves having long lasting condis…. unless they spammed chocke bomb 25/7 and enemy sat in it for ages O_o

Woah! wait a min you mean where not suppose to stand in those red circles?
but how can i move and keyboard turn at the same time!

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Agreed

Lordrosicky.5813:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Agreed

Same

i agree with OP’s suggestions infact they have been asked for almost 3 years now
chill messing thief initiative i think can be excluded as thieves rely on their mobility so much

but thieves definetly need to have risks and plan their attacks instead of LOLstealth auto attack spam till enemy shield gives in.

even moreso now that shadowstep is the second most overused mechanic in the game.

pretty much what Jekkt pointed out.

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

I respect you as a player but thats totally wrong in any way possible.
How many games do you have on Thief, I wonder? Can you play it well like it should rotation and mechanically wise?

Thief has a much lower error margin than any cele build + dps guard (in 1v1 and teamfights)

Either you need to consider having a good thief in your team to counter opponent’s thief or you must be doing something wrong.

Never had a problem vs comps with thieves at all, except vs very good thieves & teams, who can actually peel for their Thief.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks..

If you’re looking at it this way, I think thief has a good amount of counters, considering over 60-70% of the community is running this in teams and certainly 80%+ in ESL/Top Tier play:

• Cele Shoutbow
• Cele Engi
• DPS Guard
• Cele Ele + 2nd Cele Shoutbow
• Thief and/or Mes (instead of Cele Ele or 2nd Shoutbow)

= that’s already 3 to 4 to 5 counterplayers for one single person, which is the opponent Thief

Thieves can’t fight head-on 1v1 for a point vs 90% of the meta builds while most other classes/builds actually can.

If the problem is that thief can disengage too easily, I would honestly say its in your advantage (match-wise)

Some builds have way less counters, really.

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Lol… Yeah, as said above me, if other classes miss they hit 10-60 second cooldowns depending on what the skill is… That’s not a risk to poor execution, right? o.O

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

No problems with thieves’ initiative system. It’s been nerfed so much since launch, they’ll have to delete thieves as a playable profession if they want to nerf it more.

Stealth, on the other hand, is a problem in every game.

Solution:

Make Stealth a STACKED effect

• Every second of stealth obtained is equivalent to 1 stack of stealth.
• Every second spent in stealth removes one stack.
• Every physical hit received, removes one stack of stealth and therefore 1 second of duration.
• Losing all your stacks, means losing stealth. (Losing stealth via losing stacks doesn’t apply ‘Revealed’ debuff.)

Whammo Bammo! Everyone wins. Stealthed players have a clear and visible way to see stealth duration without hovering over the buff or counting flashes. And there’s a viable counter to it.

For immersive purposes: when you hit a player (even in stealth) you should know you hit that person via recoil and some other bs, so losing some of that stealth is like a person narrowing down the stealthed player’s location.

This would also make being in stealth require some skill, you can’t stand there and wait for your cooldowns/initiative regen anymore. It’s not just the damage you’re afraid of, its losing your stealth too.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

the only profession that can do all those things you mentioned would be pretty much shoutbow warrior

Rezzet.3614:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

the only profession that can do all those things you mentioned would be pretty much shoutbow warrior

True, but most classes excl thief/mesmer (and maybe necro lol) can atleast do 70-80% of the list. Unless you’re doing something wrong. A thief can’t do anything reliably, while another one can.

Every class has pro & contras, even a shoutbow.
But thief has a good amount of both.

Rezzet.3614:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

the only profession that can do all those things you mentioned would be pretty much shoutbow warrior

I think Terror is trying to say that thieves only really have one viable play-style Stealth+Damage (Power/Condi). Thieves don’t have a supportive style other than giving stealth to allies (can’t really call venoms support). Thieves don’t have a tank play-style (maybe an evasive/blinding play-style but this relies a bit on stealth too).

Other professions can do so much more, where as thieves have just one/two things going for them.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Rezzet.3614:

Volrath.1473:

Ofc thieves should be punished for missing attacks!! After all, all other professions get punished with conditions for missing their skills right?!… Right?!….

/facepalm

Other professions are indeed punished if they get blinded and miss their skills their skills enter cooldown if other professions use skills on a blocking players their skills enter cooldown , thief is the only profession that has access to easy stealth and shadowsteps and ontop of that a non cooldown system and to top it off their auto attack skills become stealth high damage skills so being auto attack skills means they dont cost initiative thus thief is not being punished in any way .

this thread isnt even asking for thief nerfs but simply make stealth be counterable .

Thieves get punished other ways when non-thieves are not:

• You can stand on point and stay for cleave DPS midst teamfight
• You can contest the point if teammate is low (to keep it yours)
• You have more chances surviving while reviving a downed teammate
• You can pressure a whole point with AoE’s + doom/geomancy sigil
• You have more survivability vs attacks head-on
• You can survive better while performing more auto-attackchains in 1v1 or teamfights
• You can win vs low to average thieves without even noticing he’s trying to attack you (AoE DPS/Condi/Peel)
• You are easier to cleanse/heal compared than a thief midst teamfight
• A Thief can easier be seen useless to your team due wrong rotation (if team has equally good experienced players)
• List can go on and on..

Im sure u can find some things about what Thief can and others not but if you think about it, other burst classes can do lots of things thief can, while this list shows what a thief cannot do reliably while others can (excluding mesmer, ofc)

FYI: people who cannot stop attacking whilst blinded or getting blocked, should be punished with CD’s.. (Stow Weapon FTW)

the only profession that can do all those things you mentioned would be pretty much shoutbow warrior

True, but most classes excl thief/mesmer (and maybe necro lol) can atleast do 70-80% of the list. Unless you’re doing something wrong. A thief can’t do anything reliably, while another one can.

Every class has pro & contras, even a shoutbow.
But thief has a good amount of both.

as a matter of fact thieves can do most of what you listed if anything condi cleanse would be the only thing thief cant do as reliably as other professions

need aoe use a shortbow
wanna revive someone stealth and revive them heck stealth the downed person in some cases
being able to stealth 90% of the time invalidates your previous counter arguments

There is a reason why thieves are always in the meta, not only mobility.

And people defend them thinking they have it worse than other classes. They have always been in the meta jeezus.

something isnt right when you see
blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock5000-7000 damage
or get backstabbed from a blinded target give backstab a 2-3s cooldown upon missing that way if thief spams mindlessly his attack will be just a normal auto attack thus forcing them to play more tactical making them think between hitting that auto attack or waiting for that backstab or retreating to restealth if the stealth remaining time is low

block = attack landed but was innefective so i dont see why a block shouldnt destealth

Rezzet.3614:

something isnt right when you see
blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock5000-7000 damage
or get backstabbed from a blinded target give backstab a 2-3s cooldown upon missing that way if thief spams mindlessly his attack will be just a normal auto attack thus forcing them to play more tactical making them think between hitting that auto attack or waiting for that backstab or retreating to restealth if the stealth remaining time is low

block = attack landed but was innefective so i dont see why a block shouldnt destealth

dont forget they can spam dazes too, f1, headshot (as long as you have ini)

I want to add+

I research and I found this interesting thread: Yes! with same problems 2 years ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stealth-and-why-it-reduces-depth-and-skill

" Stealth and why it reduces depth and skill "

: ‘The biggest problem with stealth right now in Guild Wars 2 is that there is no direct counter to it. Sure, you can swing your sword around like a maniac trying to connect with the thief but that isn’t really countering the stealth itself. I’d love to see ArenaNet add utility skills directly aimed at disabling stealth to promote more skillful play’.

Also by the way: I agree with your post and good suggestion/proposal: Supreme

StickerHappy.8052:

Rezzet.3614:

something isnt right when you see
blockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblockblock5000-7000 damage
or get backstabbed from a blinded target give backstab a 2-3s cooldown upon missing that way if thief spams mindlessly his attack will be just a normal auto attack thus forcing them to play more tactical making them think between hitting that auto attack or waiting for that backstab or retreating to restealth if the stealth remaining time is low

block = attack landed but was innefective so i dont see why a block shouldnt destealth

dont forget they can spam dazes too, f1, headshot (as long as you have ini)

thats why those are ok steal has a cooldown and requires a good ammount of trait points to daze , headshot costs initiative and is a short daze and players can still react while dazed so its their fault if they die for standing still trying to cast while dazed.

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Amen

This is the thief.

If people have a different vision, their vision is just wrong.

philheat.3956:

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

Amen

This is the thief.

If people have a different vision, their vision is just wrong.

Thieves will storm this post trust me.

Every thieve pretty much quit this game long ago, the ones that are still around don’t take this game seriously at all.

You cult has already won. you have literately been flogging a dead horse for the past year. it’s entertaining though so don’t stop now.

Highlie.7641:

Every thieve pretty much quit this game long ago, the ones that are still around don’t take this game seriously at all.

You cult has already won. you have literately been flogging a dead horse for the past year. it’s entertaining though so don’t stop now.

Wow so that explains that every top tier pvp team has a thief in their comp…

Get your facts straight lol.

Jekkt.6045:

Cynz.9437:

people complain about stealth in pvp? wat?

thief went to reset? good… you got point, enjoy your match points~

also i love how people cry “omg thief can reset”…. and somehow forget to mention that the moment thief goes ooc their target is also ooc and gets to heal up…

i think it is hilarious to say that thief doesn’t get punished for failed attack… if anything thieves get punished the most for single mistake in game atm….

you don’t reset as a thief. you sit in stealth until crucial skills are off cooldown, like steal or withdraw, and then you go at it again. or you sit out invul skills in stealth, another gimmick that renders other classes’ defensive skills useless. thieves don’t get punished for single mistakes at all. thieves have on demand teleports that can save their kitten s in most situations and make cc useless if you don’t force the 2 stunbreaks before.

thief is also the only class in the game that is unkiteable as they have teleports that are not tied to cooldowns while other classes’ teleports are on a 30-40s cooldown. so if a thief wants to chase you he will do so and you will not get away most of the time.

the only classes that can face a thief are celestial classes that bring self sustain and a mix of direct damage and condition attrition or guardians because they have the needed aoe damage with good sustain and blocks, this will change though as soon as thieves will be able to run 3 traitlines, in fact thieves with vampire runes can already kill guardians because mist form will save them when they eat a mighty blow combo or get trapped by the ring.

the thief’s class design is broken and to fix it they would have to overhaul the whole class which is obviously not gonna happen.

they learned their lesson with energy ressource or why else do revenants have actual cooldowns on their skills + the energy cost.

So what you are basically saying is the thief is giving you a +15-30 (or more depending on how good you are) points to your score just to kill you and gain a +5? By the time he decaps he shouldn’t have any chance to fully cap due to proper team rotation. A good team will have rotated preventing your death thus negating anything the thief has done.

Whats the problem again?

You must be talking about EU?
there is like 10 thieves in N/a

Highlie.7641:

You must be talking about EU?
there is like 10 thieves in N/a

You said every thief pretty much quit a long time ago EVERY then there’s 10 thieves in NA? Gasp!

Pretty much is not EVERYONE.
English is hard i know your from Eu so i will forgive you on this one as it might not be your main language.

Highlie.7641:

Every thieve pretty much quit this game long ago, the ones that are still around don’t take this game seriously at all.

You cult has already won. you have literately been flogging a dead horse for the past year. it’s entertaining though so don’t stop now.

EVERY = ALL, EACH ONE, EVERYONE. btw. I’m from NA.

“pretty much everyone” means not quite everyone but a large majority.