Guild Wars 2

Tao.1234:

The only valid counterplay to Stealth would be showing the damage when hitting stealthed player.

Nothing else needs to be done to Stealth.

:)

I kinda like that idea except you technically wouldn’t know how much damage you did until you had visual of the target. I wouldn’t mind a “hit” icon, since a person would feel resistance from their swings.

Shadow.1345:

onevsone.2098:

The combination of Vampirism Rune + Improvisation is a little too much imho, basically a thief can do many mistakes and be carried by RNG + invulnerability and reset the fight, until he can do a good spike, mostly depending on sigils proc.

Play a thief for a week and see just how many mistakes you can make before you’re toast.

On panic strike, a surprising amount!

Tao.1234:

The only valid counterplay to Stealth would be showing the damage when hitting stealthed player.

Nothing else needs to be done to Stealth.

:)

Hm, on first thought i like it. Kinda like a fire sigil gives a visual of where a stealthed player is, normal damage could as well. Maybe.

Maris.3164:

Quadox.7834:

Maris.3164:

Quadox.7834:

Maris.3164:

ronpierce.2760:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why is this thread not locked? Nine pages of ignorant kitten kissing and ad Populum not enough for a lock? I knew this thread was going to be non-constructive the moment I read the title and whaddayaknow, it got really stupid on the first page.

The OP might want some discussion but the people who agree with him don’t. lol

This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief” thread you guys have that does nothing but direct thieves where to sabotage threads that mention thief… At least this thread has a point to it…

That thread is quite possibly the most entertaining thread on the forums. And what is the point of this thread anyway? All I see is a bunch of people who never played thief and don’t know how easy it actually is to counter one so they call for nerfs.

Okay fine, let’s remove stealth, and while we’re at it, all invulnerabilities and blocks, protection and ranger pets (because they’re annoying). Then we’ll have a bunch of professions that are all similar to one another. Fun fun.

Why? The reveal on missed stealth attack affects mesmer too, not just thief. And it is a legit concern.

What about invulnerability? Much more powerful a tool than stealth, and something the mesmer for instance has in addition to stealth.

“This thread isn’t any worse than that “Nerf Thief”

I was just answering this comment by saying this isn’t just abut thief. Invuln is indeed strong, but that doesn’t concern the subject i was talking about. Personally i think the game would have been better if the invulns from the start were desgined as for example guardian renewed focus- no attacks during it.

This thread isn’t just about thief? Then why is it labeled ‘we need more counterplay to thief stealth’? I don’t see why you people are here complaining about stealth on thief while the warriors and rangers can attack and stomp people whilst taking 0 dmg. We need invulnerability removal first, then we can discuss changes to stealth. Prioritities. There are more glaring issues in game, and imo stealth isn’t even one of them.

I know that, the op is misleading. But don’t get fooled by it, since it doesn’t matter. A change to stealth would affect ranger and especially mesmer as well, despite what the OP has laballed this particular thread.

Saiyan.1704:

babayum.1895:

Saiyan.1704:

inb4 close

Thief is fine and doesn’t need a nerf any more than they need a buff.
If you have trouble with thieves please visit your class specific thread and make a post for solutions.

A lot of people in this thread have problem with thief you think they all noob and need to l2p? No if so many people have problem its clearly because thief is very op it need massive nerf.

I hope a net fix this broken class it’s destroying pvp

A few of them, yea. Just the ones who’ve never played a thief yet scream nerf when they see a backstab land.

I guess it might be because one is a transform elite with incredibly high cooldown and that can be easily dodged, while one has much much much lower cooldown and can’t be reaction dodged.

To clarify, i don’t think it is op, but that is probably why people might say it.

That’s the point.
Successful strike to hidden players wouldn’t reveal them, but would work as hint to where that player is.
Would give a chance to other classes by simply trying to follow the damage pattern.

No need to nerf directly the stealth system – thief is dependent on this heavily.

Normally when you hit something even invisible you will still feel the resistance of the object.

As Thieves are also Spike dependent in many builds, making such change to stealth would pretty much balance the Spiking ability too.

And therefore could wait for what HoT does offer to all classes and test it all.

:)

Last couple of posts make sense. 10 pages before that is complete load of crap…

Ravenmoon.5318:

Last couple of posts make sense. 10 pages before that is complete load of crap…

they just want their staff guardian to instantly kill any thieves in wvw trash players

The reveal on block, be right or not would still allow thieves to reposition themselves on a second attempt. Now there are quite few thieves that have been insulting, trolling this thread for ages and what I find hilarious is that the same people who are against reveal on block now are in favour of visible damage on stealthed targets

These “players” completely ignore the fact that there are multi hit aoe on very short cd on top of condi aoe, a smart player would be able to track you easily even if stealthed..you would not be able to land a single backstab, I’d know how far/close you are and prepare my attacks if they’re on target skills.

Supreme.3164:

The reveal on block, be right or not would still allow thieves to reposition themselves on a second attempt. Now there are quite few thieves that have been insulting, trolling this thread for ages and what I find hilarious is that the same people who are against reveal on block now are in favour of visible damage on stealthed targets

These “players” completely ignore the fact that there are multi hit aoe on very short cd on top of condi aoe, a smart player would be able to track you easily even if stealthed..you would not be able to land a single backstab, I’d know how far/close you are and prepare my attacks if they’re on target skills.

“Now there are quite few thieves that have been insulting, trolling this thread for ages…”

" a smart player would be able to track you easily even if stealthed..you would not be able to land a single backstab, I’d know how far/close you are…"

Wow really? Come duel me on my thief. I’ll give you 500 gold if I can’t land a BS. But if I can, perma delete your account.

babayum.1895:

Shadow.1345:

The typical I got facerolled so nerf the class post.

Dont read my post? I say i beat his sry kitten but he can just teleport away regen come back and kill me. Balance? Where is balance with thief profession??

Saying you beat him when you didn’t doesn’t mean you beat him.

Preventing the port is part of the match. Because you failed to prevent the port, you lost.

Or “Almost won”.

And to people expressing interest in showing damage numbers when you hit a stealthed thief: What are ye, nutz?

Reveal on block or on miss is fine. bad thieves attack shield stance/aegis, and any proc of those forces reconsideration of strategy.

Allowing people to track you in stealth with cleave is ridiculous. We already have autoattack chain watching to give hints as to whether you hit something or not.

Gabriell.4856:

Supreme.3164:

visible damage on stealthed targets*

.you would not be able to land a single backstab-

Wow really? Come duel me on my thief. I’ll give you 500 gold if I can’t land a BS. But if I can, perma delete your account.

What are you talking about?

He said quite plainly that if damage numbers were shown over a stealthed thief when they were hit, he would be able to track you easily.

And he’s not wrong.

What does dueling him now have to do with any of tha-

Oh, I get it. Lol.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

babayum.1895:

Shadow.1345:

The typical I got facerolled so nerf the class post.

Dont read my post? I say i beat his sry kitten but he can just teleport away regen come back and kill me. Balance? Where is balance with thief profession??

Saying you beat him when you didn’t doesn’t mean you beat him.

Preventing the port is part of the match. Because you failed to prevent the port, you lost.

Or “Almost won”.

And to people expressing interest in showing damage numbers when you hit a stealthed thief: What are ye, nutz?

Reveal on block or on miss is fine. bad thieves attack shield stance/aegis, and any proc of those forces reconsideration of strategy.

Allowing people to track you in stealth with cleave is ridiculous. We already have autoattack chain watching to give hints as to whether you hit something or not.

Gabriell.4856:

Supreme.3164:

visible damage on stealthed targets*

.you would not be able to land a single backstab-

Wow really? Come duel me on my thief. I’ll give you 500 gold if I can’t land a BS. But if I can, perma delete your account.

What are you talking about?

He said quite plainly that if damage numbers were shown over a stealthed thief when they were hit, he would be able to track you easily.

And he’s not wrong.

What does dueling him now have to do with any of tha-

Oh, I get it. Lol.

Hm…I misread his post. My bad.

posthumecaver.6473:

It is funny that nobody is disturbed that chill has absolutely zero effect during a fight on a Thief
—————————————————————————
Only effect chill has on Thief he walks slowly away after killing somebody if he is not using the short bow.

Umm, have you actually ever played as a thief before? Go get chilled, then tell me how it went. The teleports are the ONLY thing keeping us alive.

Gabriell.4856:

Breaking Aegis while in stealth does not reveal the exact location of the thief. You will have a general idea of where he is but never exactly, so your counter to the stealth attack will always “hope for the best” since you can’t see the thief. Did the thief BS and repositioned then watched you try to counter wasting CD’s like an idiot? Maybe…

What exactly is the issue? Either a thief is on your back, backstabbing aegis away, giving you notice to evade, or the thief is at range when he removes aegis, meaning that you’re safe from a backstab because he will destealth momentarily.

Mobility is the issue there, not stealth.

Gabriell.4856:

Only 2 classes can do full damage while being invul; X/F ele and Mesmer. Two classes/builds that the thief pushes out of the meta. So please tell me more about this “uncounterability….” you speak of.

Again, what is the issue here? Meta-match class-warfare? Both teams have access to thieves. Both teams have access to any profession. It’s already balanced.

As for stealth vs. invulnerability, the thief has no counter to it other than to run away if he is able. If he is a d/p thief, he MAY have enough initiative to stealth depending on when the invulnerability was popped, but he may not. Blinding Powder is the only sure-fire option. He can try to Shadow Refuge, but he’s vulnerable there. And that’s the key point, stealth can ALWAYS be countered to various degrees. Invulnerability cannot. The thief has no such ability.

babayum.1895:

When i fight thief and beat his sorry kitten he run away come back 5s with full health and kill me in one hit (i think with his backstab but im not sure)

Where do I start with this?

If you force the thief to retreat, congratulations. You won the round. Get ready for the next. Ever see the movies Rocky and Rocky II? Players learn to adapt.

You either did not hurt the thief very badly, or he was out of the fight a lot longer than 5 seconds. A thief doesn’t have that kind of healing ability even with full Shadow Arts.

And what kind of build were you running? Were you playing as a thief? A thief cannot one-shot anything except bunnies and crows. Unless you were low on health already. If that’s the case, you didn’t actually win the round at all. The thief made better use of his abilities than you did.

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

ResJudicator.7916:

Just fyi, you don’t have to connect w/ SS before backstab wears off. The idea is you cast SS and immediately start the backstab animation while still in stealth. The animation will continue even after stealth wears off, which let’s you connect w/ the backstab.
————————————————————————
It’s not hard to get at least 2 backstab attempts off while in stealth.

I think that’s a point that many are missing. That has to do with mobility, not stealth, really. The stealth just enhances the ability.

And also, getting two backstabs off isn’t so difficult. But getting two backstabs off while maintaining position on the target within 3 seconds can be a lot trickier.

Khenzy.9348:

With your proposal, 50% of the thieves would just play S/D

That is something that I don’t think ANYONE would want to happen except for thieves.

ResJudicator.7916:

Also, you also don’t have to dodge twice vs RF, one dodge makes the rest of it do as much damage as an autoattack.

That’s definitely one of the many aspects where I need to L2P better. I have problems dodging and staying inside the boundaries of Shadow Refuge.

One thing I think a lot of people miss is that we thieves have to deal with other thieves also. And because we are among the squishiest of professions, the thief’s offensive capabilities may just affect us the most, especially when we get blindsided.

While I’m certainly no expert, I can offer this piece of advice. Keep your finger on your stun-break skill at all times. I run with “Withdrawal” bound to my Left Ctrl key. My pinky never leaves it. I cannot count the number of times it has gotten me out of a jam… to thieves and non-thieves alike. Shadowstep is under my thumb at all times. If you manage to break out of a thief’s Basilisk Venom before the backstab, you’re in a much better position. It may not work against all builds and situations, but it will help regardless.

Kageseigi.2150:

ResJudicator.7916:

Just fyi, you don’t have to connect w/ SS before backstab wears off. The idea is you cast SS and immediately start the backstab animation while still in stealth. The animation will continue even after stealth wears off, which let’s you connect w/ the backstab.
————————————————————————
It’s not hard to get at least 2 backstab attempts off while in stealth.

I think that’s a point that many are missing. That has to do with mobility, not stealth, really. The stealth just enhances the ability.

And also, getting two backstabs off isn’t so difficult. But getting two backstabs off while maintaining position on the target within 3 seconds can be a lot trickier.

Khenzy.9348:

With your proposal, 50% of the thieves would just play S/D

That is something that I don’t think ANYONE would want to happen except for thieves.

ResJudicator.7916:

Also, you also don’t have to dodge twice vs RF, one dodge makes the rest of it do as much damage as an autoattack.

That’s definitely one of the many aspects where I need to L2P better. I have problems dodging and staying inside the boundaries of Shadow Refuge.

---

One thing I think a lot of people miss is that we thieves have to deal with other thieves also. And because we are among the squishiest of professions, the thief’s offensive capabilities may just affect us the most, especially when we get blindsided.

While I’m certainly no expert, I can offer this piece of advice. Keep your finger on your stun-break skill at all times. I run with “Withdrawal” bound to my Left Ctrl key. My pinky never leaves it. I cannot count the number of times it has gotten me out of a jam… to thieves and non-thieves alike. If you manage to break out of a thief’s Basilisk Venom before the backstab, you’re in a much better position. It may not work against all builds and situations, but it will help regardless.

LOL, so what’s is the reason behind thief hard countering mesmers? Same deal, squishy, high offense, BUT its only thieves that really hard counter mesmers?

Do mesmer’s hard counter thieves because of being squishy and high offense too?

Take a guess.

StickerHappy.8052:

LOL, so what’s is the reason behind thief hard countering mesmers? Same deal, squishy, high offense, BUT its only thieves that really hard counter mesmers?

Do mesmer’s hard counter thieves because of being squishy and high offense too?

Take a guess.

I don’t even know where that came from. I didn’t say anything about mesmers or hard counters. I said that thieves have to deal with thieves also. Meaning we have to learn how to counter stealth, mobility, and backstabs also… because if we don’t, we’re dead in two seconds. So if any other profession wants to learn how to counter thieves, the best thing to do is to ask a thief. Not only do they know how they attack, they also know how to counter those attacks.

I’m not saying ask ME for advice. Go ask the pros who have been playing the Thief since launch. But I can tell you that there is a LOT of misinformation and myths being thrown around here.

So there are two options. A person can either call for the Thief to be nerfed again and again… or a person can learn how a Thief works, so they can actually counter it. The first option requires the devs to change the game in the future. The second option can be done by any player right now, but simply isn’t done by choice. So people will continue to lose to thieves by their OWN choice.

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Maybe check the information before you’re posting since saying stuff like ‘’sr heals for almost 10K’’ is definitely adding fuel to the fire and not helping the thieves cause. Seing as many people here never picked up thief, the misinformation can spread.

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Maybe check the information before you’re posting since saying stuff like ‘’sr heals for almost 10K’’ is definitely adding fuel to the fire and not helping the thieves cause. Seing as many people here never picked up thief, the misinformation can spread.

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

True though convincing other players doesn’t matter since it’s in the developer’s hands and they would notice that mistake.

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Maybe check the information before you’re posting since saying stuff like ‘’sr heals for almost 10K’’ is definitely adding fuel to the fire and not helping the thieves cause. Seing as many people here never picked up thief, the misinformation can spread.

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

True though convincing other players doesn’t matter since it’s in the developer’s hands and they would notice that mistake.

I don’t think this is always true. Just look at Elemental Attunement, they tried to make it a GM trait several times, but there was always so much negative feedback and now they’re changing their minds again, I would say mostly because of the amount of negative feedback.

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Maybe check the information before you’re posting since saying stuff like ‘’sr heals for almost 10K’’ is definitely adding fuel to the fire and not helping the thieves cause. Seing as many people here never picked up thief, the misinformation can spread.

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

True though convincing other players doesn’t matter since it’s in the developer’s hands and they would notice that mistake.

I don’t think this is always true. Just look at Elemental Attunement, they tried to make it a GM trait several times, but there was always so much negative feedback and now they’re changing their minds again, I would say mostly because of the amount of negative feedback.

I don’t know what is going on with Elemental Attunement but are you seriously suggesting that they are going to nerf something because someone misunderstood something and just go “Healing over 9000!? Nerf SR into the ground nao!” instead of knowing that it only heals for less than 2k? Do you really think they don’t know their own job that well?

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shadow.1345:

though the heal from SR is means staying in an area outlined as the thief is here with 5 pulses for 1865 which gives 9325 health

Sorry, just for personal knowledge… how do you get to that number? According to the wiki, there are 5 pulses that heal for 355 + .18 healing power each. Total is 1,775 + .9 healing power.

I love my Shadow Refuge and all, but it doesn’t love me THAT much! :-P

I can only understand those numbers if Shadow’s Rejuvenation and maybe Shadow Protector are factored in… and still, that’s with sitting around for 20 seconds doing nothing. In other words, that’s longer than a respawn.

I got it from what was on the the tab when I moused over it.

Ah, thank you. What traits are you using? Full Shadow Arts?

At that time I was just running Panic Strikes so I only have 2 in Shadow arts and with a Zerker Amulet and Vampirism Rune. Actually now I am running Critical Strikes build again because I prefer the extra critical strikes and I noticed my mistake. I thought the Healing on the tab was how much it healed per pulse becausewith no Shadow Arts it is 1,775. I thought 9k seemed off cause I never seemed to heal for that much in actuality.

Maybe check the information before you’re posting since saying stuff like ‘’sr heals for almost 10K’’ is definitely adding fuel to the fire and not helping the thieves cause. Seing as many people here never picked up thief, the misinformation can spread.

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

True though convincing other players doesn’t matter since it’s in the developer’s hands and they would notice that mistake.

I don’t think this is always true. Just look at Elemental Attunement, they tried to make it a GM trait several times, but there was always so much negative feedback and now they’re changing their minds again, I would say mostly because of the amount of negative feedback.

I don’t know what is going on with Elemental Attunement but are you seriously suggesting that they are going to nerf something because someone misunderstood something and just go “Healing over 9000!? Nerf SR into the ground nao!” instead of knowing that it only heals for less than 2k? Do you really think they don’t know their own job that well?

No, all I’m saying is that what you said wasn’t true. The devs sometimes do listen to the players base and that with misinformation you’re increasing the amount of people who are crying about nerfs, that’s it.

Laraley.7695:

So yes, the healing written on tab of sr is the cummulative healing you’ll get for all pulses, rougly it heals for 350 per pulse.

Shadow Arts
Shadow Protector
- When you grant stealth to an ally , they gain regeneration. This effect does not trigger if your ally already has regeneration.
Regen(10sec): 1,670 Heal

Together with Shadow Rejuvenation you may heal quite a lot.

But I’m not sure if people actually use that trait, despite it triggering on thief too.

The neverending complains about thieves and their stealth (now with the bonus about initiative).

How come that no onter class has everyone thinking they might be op? mesmers 4v1’ing everything with both strong condi and power setups, stealth and quite a healthy dose of survivability skills. Necros with hordes of minions, DS, condi pressure and removal and again, good survivability utilities. Not to mention wars and guards who sometimes feel like fighting a castle’s wall, not a person. Or them eles with 20 skills to spam, a quite a lot of mobility? 1.5k range snipers with annoying pets and high survivability and engis with again spammable skills and insane survivability.

They don’t need nerf then?

Thieves have no blocks, no stability, no invulnerability, low hp pool and global cd on weapon skills via initiative. Except the high tier players, the rest don’t watch every skill/buff/debuff in the middle of a team fight. It’s already exhausting being there and paying attention to deadly conditions, back threats, downed team mates and so on.

On top of that, stealth eats up initiative (6 to 9, depening on weapons) or puts a life-saving utility on a 40 sec cd. That’s like putting 5 of your any other class’s skills on cooldown for 3 seconds of stealth. And it doesn’t matter if the cd is even 5 seconds. You can’t use your weapons’ skills properly after that.

Looking forward to other aspects, engis have 3 seconds of blocks on shield, invulnerability, stealth and so on. So in a 1v1 vs an engi thieves would have to wait roughly how long for the window of opportunity to land a backstab?! Not to mention positioning for a hit is also important. All classes can safely hit from wherever (well, almost – only class that can fight from the home instance being the ranger).

I wouldn’t mind such a nerf though, as the OP dreams of. If!

• Thieves could disarm on backstab (general cd on all weapon skills).
• Mesmers would get global cooldown on their phantasms and shatters each time a shatter doesn’t land.
• Engis would get a get 2 seconds of imobilized status each time they summon their turrets.
• Eles would be unable to swap attunements on a missed/blocked attack
• Necros would be unable to enter DS if their hp is below 50%. Or be unable to leave it.
• Guards would have channeled meditations (like mesmer mantras).

Stupid request? Well, I think it’s fair and square. If any stealth or failed stealth action demands punishment on thief, other classes should get a taste of such suggestions…

Omocha.4931:

The neverending complains about thieves and their stealth (now with the bonus about initiative).

Over 90% of Nerf requests are based on L2P issue alone.
And it’s not about Thief class alone.

How come that no onter class has everyone thinking they might be op?

Look what they did to Turret Engineer – nerf based solely on whining for months.
Takes me 1~2 aoes to rekt all turrets – maybe except thumper.(as Necro, Warrior, Guardian)

The only viable bunker engi build isn’t even mediocre.

Now, someone prove me that most nerfs aren’t based on whiners who simply refuse to l2p.

It’s impossible, Tao!)
In high end game, I believe the team builds are made so that they complement each other best.
In normal gameplay, the whining on thieves’ mobility and stealth downright ignores the fact that those two mechanics are the class’ alternative to defensive skills and mechanics and try to compensate for the low hp.

I’ve read in some other thread that it’s not fair that thieves can do both, hurt a lot and run a lot. On same line of thought, you’d think it’s not fair that guards can hurt a lot and heal a lot or that wars can do the former while not even getting a scratch thanks to their stances. And so on.

And the nerf suggestions are ranging from funny to ludicrous.
I recently made a thread to qq about conditions threat for thieves, especially with the inifinte stacks inc. I’ve learned in roughly two pages of conversation that life sucks when you’re bleeding to death, but it’s better if you don’t get hit. So I accepted that fact. Condi pressure and thieves will never get along well.

Wondering if the playerbase can accept the thieves’ mobility as survival mechanic and move along. Guess they won’t. Not when they keep coming with more and more “broken” or “op” elements in the class’ mechanics.

Hah! I remember one mad player in hotjoin calling a thief noob then adding “Roll condi build and I’ll smash you!”. Even using that word for me is a disgrace to the person using it, not to mention the expectation that the enemy would load the build you’re most confortable with)

Look at this by this kind of prism.

If Thieves are robbed of stealth and their agility along with mobility. How long will they live? Especially with rough ~2 000 Armor and ~14k HP?
Almost free kill.
That’s the reason why Thief is equipped with such abilities, because the moment you catch him it’s instant stomp.

Guardians – Heal isn’t a problem – problem are blocks, because it does nullify damage and effects. And spikes are naked and most vulnerable here.

Warrior – and what would warrior do without stances? Sure, Warrior has high HP pool, def. Walking piece of block that’s semi-slow and open from all sides. Rip it off stances and voila – another free kill.

Condi pressure – it’s a nail in foot for every class – necromancer can handle it longer than other classes, but there is still a limit.

So like I said – Over 90% of nerf requests are simple L2P issues.

Every class has pros and cons.
And as I do sit both in PvP and WvW, I can tell you clearly that people don’t want to accept their own lack of skill and accept that they make loads of mistakes – panic in the middle as well.

If it comes to Thief alone.
I would rework a little bit P/D build.
Because it’s the most rewarding with minimal skill.
And it shouldn’t be like that.
But that’s my opinion based on testing it and seeing from other player PoV.

:)

Precisely. Remove all classes their perks, not just thieves’. Then it’ll be fair.
There are counters to stealth (blasting them out of their SR). Counters to mobility (ground targeted skills and imobs used a bit more wiser) and quite a lot of classes have a counter for BS too.
As for the SS, that continues to be a double edged sword, with “No valid” still poping at the worst times. So there’s somethin’ extra from the devs to support the part of the playerbase complaining about mobility.

Confirmed: Engineers Lock-On trait will reveal stealthed targets when damage is done and add 10 stacks of vulnerability. That’s the kind of counterplay I can get behind.