Guild Wars 2

zone.1073:

No class should have to be so desperately dependent on others as this one.

You got that damn right and I hate the fact that some people have to view stuff that way. Yes this game will have pros and cons depending what spec you are but when it comes down to a warrior class to depend on others while majority of the other profession don’t have to worry about that scenario is absurd.

Teamwork is the key to successful wins, but not like this. This is not even competitive game play….. it’s torturing….

Brutalistik.6473:

zone.1073:

No class should have to be so desperately dependent on others as this one.

You got that damn right and I hate the fact that some people have to view stuff that way. Yes this game will have pros and cons depending what spec you are but when it comes down to a warrior class to depend on others while majority of the other profession don’t have to worry about that scenario is absurd.

Teamwork is the key to successful wins, but not like this. This is not even competitive game play….. it’s torturing….

Exactly! This is the entire crux of the issue.
@Cog: I respect that you took both the dev and ‘pro’ players laughter at warriors as benign and harmless however others, myself included, have taken it almost as a flat out slap in the face since the warrior class is the one we want to play (main). As much as I had been annoyed by the warrior issues for a while I didn’t drop my warrior and reroll until that video came out with them laughing at warriors, and the just release “vision” of the warrior needing babysitters by design pretty much sealed the deal.

I agree with the original poster, something needs to be done to warrior. There is not 1 special ability they have that is the warriors, that feels warrior. There like guardians without protection and mass stuns, like thfs without crit or stealth. When they die in pvp thats it, no special knock back or invis so you cant be flagged, when your down your dead. There like a blank piece of paper that hasnt been drawn on yet, finish the class please.

This is how ArenaNet should make the Warrior feel special and unique: They should be designed in a way where they thrive in mass combat. The more opponents near the Warrior, the better the Warrior performs. Right now, Warriors perform best in a 1v1 like an assassin, and cower at large scale team fights. That is really counter-intuitive to the theme and feel of Warriors.

Like Irelia from League of Legends , Warriors should have more traits and abilities that provide defense to the Warrior as the Warrior plays more offensively (Irelia has a passive defense skill that scales based on the amount of enemies around her). Restoring endurance on Adrenaline skills is a good start, but that concept should be expanded a lot more. There are many great suggestions from players in this thread: Adrenaline skills cure conditions, conditions and stun durations have reduced duration that scales based on amount of opponents near the Warrior (similar effect to Runes of Melandru), etc.

I made a thread about that a while ago…nobody paid attention to it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/A-New-Approach-to-a-Balanced-Warrior

My understanding of the problem wasn’t as deep then, but I still like my ideas there.

I dont understand why the warrior is so dependent on others.

I mean its meant to be a WARRIOR. The ultimate fighter. Not some weakling who gets owned by magic dudes or stuff.

A warrior should have the capacity to be resilient and put out damage. THe should be the ABSOLUTE king of in your face melee on melee battle. If any other class goes toe to toe with a warrior they should lose. They have other advantages which can easily give them the edge vs the warrior anyway.

There are ALOT of people who like playing how I do. We like to dive into combat and have a scrap. Anet made it impossible for us to do that. Which probably alienates alot of people from pvp because our game style isnt viable. Please anet give us the chance to be ruthless warriors who just love to get involved in fights on our own!

A Thief doesn’t depend on anyone else to survive. When a Thief is in trouble, he never has to ask a friend “Excuse me, can you please cure my conditions? Thanks!” No. Whenever the Thief chooses to, he stealths and cleanses all of his own conditions while in stealth.

When a Mesmer is getting focused on, the Mesmer doesn’t need to ask for permission to summon illusions, go into stealth, activate invulnerability every 6 seconds, etc. The Mesmer independently functions and survives, and in turn, the Mesmer contributes to his team so much more because he’s outputting resources and not CONSUMING resources from the team.

Keep in mind, these other classes can be built full glass cannon and still have more survivability than Warriors. ArenaNet understands that it is dangerous for Thieves and Mesmers to be glassy, so they gave them tools to deal with danger. ArenaNet gives Mesmers a 2-second invulnerability skill on a 6 second cooldown (Blurred Frenzy, traited). They also get a teleport skill on a 6 second cooldown (Phase Retreat, traited). Why aren’t Warriors treated equally? Of all of them, Warriors are forced to put themselves into danger the most, without any means of dealing with said danger.

Why is it that Warriors, of all classes, are the most assassin-like of them all, and are so completely dependent on others to hold him up? This is not a healthy way of force-feeding teamwork. It’s like a relationship between two people. Being needy, high maintenance, and dependent on your partner does not constitute a loving relationship. A true relationship is when both people are independent and financially stable, but choose to be with each other because they simply want to.

^Also how Mesmer has a tier 2 minor trait that is better than both of a warriors tier 3 major traits(defense tree).

Mesmer –
1)Illusionary Membrane

Gain protection for 3 seconds when you gain regeneration. This effect can only occur once every 15 seconds.

Warrior-
1)Spiked Armor

Gain 5 seconds of retaliation when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.

2)Defy Pain

Activates Endure Pain at 25% health.

Putting 30 points in defense is almost useless as a warrior currently. Unless you decide to take balanced stance from tier 2. Otherwise those 10 points would be better off somewhere else.

Warriors aren’t assassins.. their carries/roaming tanky initiators. Just that people need to make something other builds work other than Axe/Shield + GS in order to see the true problem.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Warriors aren’t assassins.. their carries/roaming tanky initiators. Just that people need to make something other builds work other than Axe/Shield + GS in order to see the true problem.

The point of this thread was to show that Warriors aren’t even tanky. Not even beefy. Even if you try to go tanky, you’re not. Heavy armor means sh’it in this iteration of the game. A cloth armor Ele is tankier (perhaps the tankiest in the game, surpassing Guardians in some situations) and more of a beefy bruiser melee fighter than a Warrior.

Sure you can invest in traits that give you stability and endure pain automatically and use low-damage weapons/high CC weapons and such, but what do you give up from doing that? You lose so much damage burst, and so it evens out in the end. Either you have these traits that delay your death by a few seconds but you do less damage and take more time to accomplish things anyways, or you do high damage and can get things done but you get exploded if you make one mistake with positioning and timing.

In the end, all builds encounter the same brick wall. It’s because of the class’s flawed design.

^
Could you push out my “prototype Bunker” Warrior with your Warrior though? I bet you wouldn’t even get me to half. Axe/Shield + GS 20/30/0/0/20 isn’t the only viable build out there. In-fact, that build is a noob trap.

It has potential. And I’m willing to show you that only a few tweaks will make it viable in-game. I’ve said this before the only thing that would make it attractive is if the 5-15-25 traits from tactics and defense were “Atma’s Impaler” good.

sorrow.2364:

Sasha.3295:

While I agree that thieves currently feel OP (at least in comparison to other primary melee classes), the point of this thread is to figure out why/how Warriors are UP in PvP, and how to fix it, rather than getting into a nerf/no-nerf discussion about Thieves.

I’m OK with Thieves having higher burst damage and mobility than warriors, but their numerous stealth options really do make them far more survivable in PvP. Survivability isn’t just about HP bars, it can also be a function of how hard you are to hit consistently, and how often you can even be targeted. As it stands, a reasonably-well-played thief is far more survivable than a reasonably well-played warrior, and because thieves have greater mobility, greater damage, greater breadth of utility, the idea that they ALSO have greater survivability than a warrior makes a warrior feel like they have no role in combat at all that can’t be better served by a thief.

Nerfing thieves won’t fix warrior underpoweredness. What we need is a buff to warrior’s toughness/survivability to allow them to survive for longer not only against thief bursts, but all those high-damage situations that the developers seem to want us to be able to last in, but that we currently cannot.

To me, no.
We’ll end to a Guardian clone, which is another plague into the GW2 PvP.
The point is that there is no real downside to pick a thief instead of a warrior in tPvP. All pros, no cons.
If they really had worse survivability, than a warrior probably had his place like a sturdier and a bit slower roamer, but it isn’t the case.

Or probably it is the whole class design combined with a single game mode that makes warriors worthless and there is no real fix for this.

To be honest warrior is a perfect addition to team as a 2nd roamer coupled with thief. Most people are unburstable 100%>0%
Warrior goes in first and then thief jumps weakened target.
Its not a good role though, most classes with builds suited for it can do that.
The problem of most warriors is easily telegraphed moves. All of their moves got seriously diffrent and quite long i would say animations.

Also, warrior is best at nuthing well balanced in all situations class. However meta atm is leaning towards extremes. Unkillable bunkers insanely glass cannons, best conditions, and so on, warrior is in a middle of that, he does not reach either extreme. But its meta’s problem not warriors. And to people who say warriors got no escape try greatsword 5 greatsword whirlwind too, it can give you 2000+ range all 2gether, while you can have basicly permanent swiftness uptime.

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
Could you push out my “prototype Bunker” Warrior with your Warrior though? I bet you wouldn’t even get me to half. Axe/Shield + GS 20/30/0/0/20 isn’t the only viable build out there. In-fact, that build is a noob trap.

It has potential. And I’m willing to show you that only a few tweaks will make it viable in-game. I’ve said this before the only thing that would make it attractive is if the 5-15-25 traits from tactics and defense were “Atma’s Impaler” good.

Can it hold a base like a bunker professions?

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
Could you push out my “prototype Bunker” Warrior with your Warrior though? I bet you wouldn’t even get me to half. Axe/Shield + GS 20/30/0/0/20 isn’t the only viable build out there. In-fact, that build is a noob trap.

I mean at the end of this video, I’m in a 1v1 with a super bunker. He outputs more damage over time than most bunkers with burning and retaliation, he has great crowd control, great self healing with meditations, and I still down him. A bunker Warrior could not last that long because they’d be outputting far less damage, meaning I can be more aggressive. You may think you can escape my combos, but my playstyle is very unpredictable, as you can see from the video footage. I don’t use my combos until I know the target has burned their stun breakers and dodges (yes, I keep track of their cooldowns).

I agree that there needs to be more Atma’s Impaler type traits for Warriors, where toughness is converted to more power, and power is converted to more toughness. If those traits were beefed up a bit, that would make a world of difference in viability for all builds.

I came up with some ideas that I think would make warriors more playable as a whole.

People complain about the warrior trait tree, but really we have some nice traits that could just be placed a little better. I think the Defense and Tactics trees need some tweaking, and just a little bit to make them really usable and really provide the longevity that warriors lack.

Defense
-Shield Mastery - Move to Adept(10 pts). This allows damage oriented builds to have a bit easier access to a good survival trait. This also opens up better traiting options when specced 30 points into defense.
-Missile Deflection - Switched places with Shield Mastery(why can we deflect missiles with a shield before mastering it anyways?). Also add the effect, retaliatory Strikes(Counter Blow/Riposte) do 50% more damage.
-Last Stand - Replaces Adrenal Health as 15pt(master) minor trait. This would allow tanking builds a little more flexibility towards damage. Also burst builds can sacrifice a little bit of damage for a bit more flexibility with utilities.
-Adrenal Health - Replaces Thick Skin as 5pt minor trait.

Defender’s Resilience- New Trait, replaces Last Stand – Gain 4 seconds of protection(20 second cooldown) when an attack is successfully blocked with a skill(Counterblow/Riposte/Shield Stance only). This gives weapon blocks a bit more utility and overall usefulness and gives the warrior access to a little bit of protection. It mostly benefits the two single block skills so mainhand mace and offhand sword become more attractive.

Tactics
– Quick Breathing - Move to Adept(replaced stronger bowstrings). Allows for better more flexible support builds, and makes warhorn more attractive for less Tactics intensive builds.
– Determined Revival - Move to 15pt(master) minor trait. Activates endure pain when reviving an ally(cooldown 90 sec). This would really be an awesome change and would give the warrior something different to bring to the table. This would give the warrior some resilience in an unusual way. It could be used for stalling on a point with a teammate or could be combined with frenzy to provide powerful rez potential. This would synergize well with a bunker build and the 15 points may be a worthy sacrifice for a dps build.

Discipline
– Fast Hands - Switch with Versatile Rage. Having Fast hands at 5 points instead of 15 allows easier access to fast hands for heavy defense builds.

These ideas are really to give incentive for more defensive builds without changing or improving burst builds drastically. They give options to give up damage for survival and make survival easier with tanking builds.

Some other ideas to go with these that are somewhat unrelated to survivability.
Eviscerate - Increase Range to 450, reduce startup and afterdelay. This would make eviscerate more usable all around, both offensively and as a tool to escape, though its range is not as great as savage leap it doesn’t make MH sword obsolete.

Impale → Rip - Improve Projectile speed on Impale. Rip now inflicts a deep wound for 5 seconds. Deep wound inflicts a random condition(pulsed effect). This would give warrior better access to other conditions and provide cover conditions for condition based builds.

I really want other builds to be viable I think things like these need to be done to make them more attractive.

Suggestion: Tactics tree adds offensive options that promote, I don’t know, relying on teamwork. Cause it’s Tactics. Something that modifies the way your abilities interact with other players’. More combo field stuff, bonus effects based on conditions/boons, things like that.

Ex: A GM trait that says when you have Retal, it works even while invulnerable (but not evading).

or when you have Quickness (not frenzy source), you gain Evasion status while using kick, and it ends in a knockdown.

Shouts grant more benefits to allies than it does to self. They can be the opposite of signets, which grant benefits only to you. Banners help you and allies equally and no longer take up the weapon slot.

The warrior lacks supernatural powers of his own, so instead he could better coordinate with everyone else’s. (Tactics tree wise)

Just an idea.

Angriff.1935:

I came up with some ideas that I think would make warriors more playable as a whole…

These are one of the best ideas I’ve seen on this forum, regarding warrior of course. To add to it, I’d change Discipline bonus from 0.1% burst damage per point, to 1% adrenaline gain, or even reduced burst skill’s cooldown for 1% per point. Other classes already have something like that, like mesmers, thieves, elementalists, and we could greatly benefit from something like that.

Also, our grandmaster traits in defense and strength trees are quite bad. I’d rather see that 5secs of retaliation changed to protection, as it is grandmaster major after all, and combined with your idea of 4 secs of protection, it would take some skill to utilize it, as you shouldn’t rely on block when you already got protection from grandmaster trait. We would now have around 25% protection uptime, which is fairly good, but it most certainly isn’t op. Yes, you could trait for boon duration, and raise that uptime, but so can others, so I don’t see a problem here. The other trait is just plain awful, and I would definitely replace it with something else, although I’m not sure with what.

Both grandmaster traits in strength tree can’t even be called grandmaster… I mean, lower cd on utility skills? That 100% damage increase could be removed IMO, as nobody was using it for that while it was a master trait. I’d rather see something that would actually synergyze with power and condition duration.

I don’t have much to add that hasn’t already been said, but I came into the game and wanted to make a heavily defensive build – I spec’d 30 points into defense and 30 into tactics and picked up banners. I main sword and shield, not dual wield or a 2h weapon. I use healing signet, banners and keep adrenaline full for adrenal health to capitalize on regen and make it at least feel like I have the armor to mitigate damage, and despite now using cleric’s for toughness and healing power, I am only now capable of anything near the defense I would have expected to gain from going so hard defense, and I’m tied to a banner and out defended by many of the other classes in the game.

Warrior can build for offense so easily, but it is ten times harder to gain a tenth the survivability…it just isn’t an equal trade. Why pay $10000 for what you could pay a dollar for?

I hope that more people see this, because I fear that people laugh and say “Pfft, warriors can hit OP damage atm. They’re OP.” I don’t think the class is broken or that we’re underpowered; I think that any build that starts with the concept of defense is doomed to failure, which means half of the builds that you could make on a warrior aren’t possible from square one, and the other half (the offensive ones) are far too glassy. I’m afraid that people will look at 100B frenzy bull builds and conclude that we don’t need the same freedom to trade damage for survivability that other classes do, and that simply isn’t true.

I’d gladly trade damage for longevity, but right now I trade damage for….nothing at all, really. Build diversity and the freedom to “play the way we want to play” would be so amazing, especially given that we’re supposedly one of two “heavy armor classes.”

Team Curse EU uses a warrior, and team QT Na uses one. So its not quite true that warriors aren’t viable. BUT-thiefs do generally do the role better overall. One small thing warriors have is more between burst combo damage than thiefs. But there lack of sustainbility and disengage are major issues.

That’s the thing; I don’t think many of us are saying that the class isn’t viable, just that we lack survivability and the option to trade offense for it. We have no “sturdy body”, only a decent punching arm. :P

Seox.5876:

I hope that more people see this, because I fear that people laugh and say “Pfft, warriors can hit OP damage atm. They’re OP.” I don’t think the class is broken or that we’re underpowered; I think that any build that starts with the concept of defense is doomed to failure, which means half of the builds that you could make on a warrior aren’t possible from square one, and the other half (the offensive ones) are far too glassy. I’m afraid that people will look at 100B frenzy bull builds and conclude that we don’t need the same freedom to trade damage for survivability that other classes do, and that simply isn’t true.

Do the role better overall? That’s the point; warrior shouldn’t be shoehorned into thief territory because we lack sturdiness; we ought to be the “spearhead” according to Anet’s description, heavy enough to get into a fight and strong enough to do decent damage. Right now we lack the armor to do that and so end up encroaching on the burst or die gameplay that thieves run. It shouldn’t BE an issue of “thieves do better.”

I’m not picking on your arguments, and I see that we basically agree, I’m just expanding on them for anyone else that reads and to encourage discussion.

zone.1073:

Another wrong move and they can swap to shortbow, shadow shot up an impossible-to-reach ledge.

This is one of the most broken mechanics in the game IMO.

In order to shadowstep, shadow shot, teleport, etc. Any kind of mobility ability should have a ground path requirement to get there. That is flat out imbalanced if a class can get to terrain that other classes can’t.

Wreckdum.8367:

zone.1073:

Another wrong move and they can swap to shortbow, shadow shot up an impossible-to-reach ledge.

This is one of the most broken mechanics in the game IMO.

In order to shadowstep, shadow shot, teleport, etc. Any kind of mobility ability should have a ground path requirement to get there. That is flat out imbalanced if a class can get to terrain that other classes can’t.

any class w a teleport can do this. necro/ele etc. But it is kinda a problem.

daydream.2938:

Wreckdum.8367:

zone.1073:

Another wrong move and they can swap to shortbow, shadow shot up an impossible-to-reach ledge.

This is one of the most broken mechanics in the game IMO.

In order to shadowstep, shadow shot, teleport, etc. Any kind of mobility ability should have a ground path requirement to get there. That is flat out imbalanced if a class can get to terrain that other classes can’t.

any class w a teleport can do this. necro/ele etc. But it is kinda a problem.

Other classes can do it, but their teleports have a ~1 minute cooldown.

What’s the cooldown on shortbow’s teleport?

Blink has a 30 second cooldown :P

daydream.2938:

Blink has a 30 second cooldown :P

The CD isn’t the problem. The fact that it is possible is the problem. It’s not balanced even if every class had it. Some areas in the game are drawn with no foot path to get to them. I’m spefically thinking of the little crane with boards on it at the mine on Forests of Niflhel. The only way up there is with a teleport. So if you’re a ranged class and you TP up there you have free reign over all melee at the mine with no counter.

Recently.1043:

I honestly don’t see whats wrong with adding a trait that goes along the lines of “Burst skills now remove 1 condition on use” At most you can spam 2 burst skills in a short time, at it would give warriors a viable passive form of condition removal via traits. (shrug it off is not viable, its complete kitten compared to every other classes form of condition removal via traits; in most cases it triggers 3x-5x less often)

I play a mesmer and I approve of this message. But seriously that would be cool if it was 1 condition every 10 seconds. As it stands I am least afraid of warriors. But one the comment of going invuln every 8 seconds…. you can still take us from full to 0 as fast as a thief and it takes me quite some time to wear you guys down.

Wreckdum.8367:

daydream.2938:

Blink has a 30 second cooldown :P

The CD isn’t the problem. The fact that it is possible is the problem. It’s not balanced even if every class had it. Some areas in the game are drawn with no foot path to get to them. I’m spefically thinking of the little crane with boards on it at the mine on Forests of Niflhel. The only way up there is with a teleport. So if you’re a ranged class and you TP up there you have free reign over all melee at the mine with no counter.

Actually that’s not true. You can jump-puzzle your way onto the crane no problem.

Thief is the best class in game, warrior is the worst. Any team that takes a warrior is making a mistake.

^ When did Thief become the best proffession in the game? Yeah right.
Anyways tried warrior utilities took forever to recharge relative to you needing em.
They could make Warhorn skills remove 1 condition by default with that current trait bumping it to two, and I’d probably stress less.

daydream.2938:

Team Curse EU uses a warrior, and team QT Na uses one. So its not quite true that warriors aren’t viable. BUT-thiefs do generally do the role better overall. One small thing warriors have is more between burst combo damage than thiefs. But there lack of sustainbility and disengage are major issues.

Warrior disengage is quite strong, the only thing that tampers with that is cripple and chill. Pray your mending hits those ones.

Warrior disengage is garbage compared to other classes. It relies entirely on movement ability, which is easily shutdown by CC effects. Other classes can disengage much easier. Warrior is a terrible class. Even their animations are slow.

Sabre.1275:

Thief is the best class in game, warrior is the worst. Any team that takes a warrior is making a mistake.

Think that title belongs to the man in the corner with the double daggers, mad mobility and magic powers :p

thief can be countered and they break hard, if you hammer nerf them you will ruin someones class. Think on that a bit. The majority issue is stealth bugging out and the high burst stacking.

On topic though seems like people want a guardian clone, and thats not a good direction for game diversity at all. I find warrior oddly quite difficult to use. Might sound stupid but I purely find his weapon synergy clunky compared to my other classes. Wish I had your mobility on my guard though. Sword/Horn and GS covering half the map when I play wvw is so awesome. Jealous lol.

I think the ‘commit and die’ thing is something that both soldiers have to deal with. Some extension to our get out the fight issues would be nice for sure.

Sabre.1275:

Thief is the best class in game, warrior is the worst. Any team that takes a warrior is making a mistake.

Right. We should all listen to a nobody who thinks he’s good but refuses to show himself in tPvP or competitive play. Just another Braxxus clone.

No seriously, you think you’re so good at putting out a verdict within the classes that you think your opinions matter. But you’re still crying about Thieves when they’re balanced right now. Just stop.

Idk what’s more ironic Scwar calling somebody else a nobody or not realizing his arguement that were bad and need to l2p was disproven 5 months ago.

Take your own advice and stop

Schwahriet is correct thief IS NOT the best class in the game. Half the top paid teams dont even use one.
Thief burst can be really annoying, but it can be countered and isnt overpowered.

Schwahrheit.4203:

but refuses to show himself in tPvP

errmerrgerrd cuz everyone poops out super minions to have a fully functioning team with that don’t have mismatched personalities, and play times perfectly coincide with a no-lifer schedule and get carried godkittenritedude!

@Thief QQ:
Thieves are annoying. They have stupid mechanics, and have an even lower skillcap than most MMO’s have given the invisibility ganker class (which is saying a lot because in almost every MMO the invisibility ganker class is always skilless ganker poop).

However in TOURNEYS they are not OP at all.
In SPvP sure because it’s an invisibility button spammy burst ganker class with built in defense abilities that other classes actually have to gear/spec for, while sacrificing damage. In WvW of course they’re OP because with culling and proper timing the invisibility spamming poop is exacerbated to the nth degree which means most players have 1 second out of 7 to deal enough CC/burst to kill the thief before he’s invisible again, healing/cleansing/initiative regening because of it and about to crit you for another 5-7k.

But in tourneys? Not OP, just annoying and stupidly designed.

Braxxus.2904:

Schwahrheit.4203:

but refuses to show himself in tPvP

errmerrgerrd cuz everyone poops out super minions to have a fully functioning team with that don’t have mismatched personalities, and play times perfectly coincide with a no-lifer schedule and get carried godkittenritedude!

@Thief QQ:
Thieves are annoying. They have stupid mechanics, and have an even lower skillcap than most MMO’s have given the invisibility ganker class (which is saying a lot because in almost every MMO the invisibility ganker class is always skilless ganker poop).

However in TOURNEYS they are not OP at all.
In SPvP sure because it’s an invisibility button spammy burst ganker class with built in defense abilities that other classes actually have to gear/spec for, while sacrificing damage. In WvW of course they’re OP because with culling and proper timing the invisibility spamming poop is exacerbated to the nth degree which means most players have 1 second out of 7 to deal enough CC/burst to kill the thief before he’s invisible again, healing/cleansing/initiative regening because of it and about to crit you for another 5-7k.

But in tourneys? Not OP, just annoying and stupidly designed.

Yeh the only issue with thieves is the culling in WvW. I mean you basically double the length of all their stealths. Imagine if the warriors utilities got doubles in time. They would be pretty OP too (for warriors). Imagine 18 seconds o stability on balanced stance or something lol. Imagine fear me doing about 5 seconds of fear.

Untill they fix culling then thieves will be the most annoying experience in WvW.

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

What do you think Heavy Armor does compared to Medium and Light?

stof.9341:

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

What do you think Heavy Armor does compared to Medium and Light?

I know what it does. But we meant to have sturdy body, so it’s the easiest way to make us sturdy

Brdino.8037:

stof.9341:

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

What do you think Heavy Armor does compared to Medium and Light?

I know what it does. But we meant to have sturdy body, so it’s the easiest way to make us sturdy

Top tier health and top tier armor, most sturdy class in the game by default. Add traits and gear, diff story.

Brdino.8037:

I know what it does. But we meant to have sturdy body, so it’s the easiest way to make us sturdy

Toughness = Armor. Giving Warriors Heavy armor is the same as giving more toughness but same armor.

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

We do but it benefits us little with the lack of defensive boons / passive defensive boons we have as a profession.

stof.9341:

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

What do you think Heavy Armor does compared to Medium and Light?

Absolutely nothing :P

Seox.5876:

stof.9341:

Brdino.8037:

So warriors have higher HP base by default, why can’t we have higher toughness too?

What do you think Heavy Armor does compared to Medium and Light?

Absolutely nothing :P

^
This.
Armor TYPE is meaningless. Toughness stacking and armor RATING are what you’re thinking of, and running the proper gear my ranger/ele both have over 3k armor rating, same as warriors.

It’s active/passive defensive ABILITIES and mitigation/evasion that determines tankiness, along with sustainable self healing. Armor type has nothing to do with it at all.