So I main d/p thief, and, until recently, I thought I was pretty good at it. Before, I could take down most classes 1v1 most of the time (with the exception of engi, guard, and sometimes warrior), but now, I find myself running from fights so often that I’m thinking about switching my main to mesmer.
My question is are other experienced thieves finding the same thing? Or have I just gotten worse all of a sudden?
Actually if you’re a good thief you can do very good things, but if you’re not you can’t win against 50% of the classes.
Guardian can kill you so easy that they don’t need to use they’re elite or they’re heal. (but as a guardian i’ve never had problems against thiefs)
Mesmers can simply burst you down with they’re insane ranged damage grom hide.
Actually the thief have some bad days. But it’s still a very good class, if you know how to use it.
Thief can deal a incredible burst damage, but to do it they need to be good and to have some way to escape or they will be dead in 1 sec.
Mesmers are OP, don’t watch at them, everyone is asking for a nerf because they can kill you with a insane direct damage from hide then teleport/hide and come back with another burst if you’re not already dead.
You need only to focus on a role that can fit your thief playstyle and pay attention to the high burst damage. A burst damage can fly from nowhere and kill you in a istant, now XD
So I main d/p thief, and, until recently, I thought I was pretty good at it. Before, I could take down most classes 1v1 most of the time (with the exception of engi, guard, and sometimes warrior), but now, I find myself running from fights so often that I’m thinking about switching my main to mesmer.
My question is are other experienced thieves finding the same thing? Or have I just gotten worse all of a sudden?
It’s not just you.
Thieves have been gutted to the point of +1 a fight or run in most situations. At the moment we are a simple ganker and infiltrators arrow spammer for decaps. Almost every other class can put out similar or greater damage with more survivability. For now, just know when to do the d/p stealth dance to run from losing situations, and exercise map awareness to see where you are needed.
Koolgai Smurf – Thief | Dazin U – Mesmer | Whats Healing Power – Ranger|
I Bought Hot – Revenant | [QQ]
Can’t agree there. Directly after the patch I also had some problems. But right now, i am at the same point I have been before the patch. There are players from every class ich can beat 1v1 and also the other way around.
Thief may have less sustain than other classes, but that’s what the stealth and ports are for. I still like the thief at pvp. It has never been a face tank class and it never will be.
The point we still see them at every single match in the esl, is another sign its still a nice class and inside the meta.
Thieves got taken down a notch with the big balance patch, but it’s mainly because of how much other classes improved, particularly mesmers who thieves used to counter pretty handily.
Can’t agree there. Directly after the patch I also had some problems. But right now, i am at the same point I have been before the patch. There are players from every class ich can beat 1v1 and also the other way around.
Thief may have less sustain than other classes, but that’s what the stealth and ports are for. I still like the thief at pvp. It has never been a face tank class and it never will be.
The point we still see them at every single match in the esl, is another sign its still a nice class and inside the meta.
you can’t compare pvp to wvw
in pvp thief is ok, not good not bad, just ok
but in wvw thief is just a joke
Thieves got taken down a notch with the big balance patch, but it’s mainly because of how much other classes improved, particularly mesmers who thieves used to counter pretty handily.
Partially true. Don’t mind buffing other classes but they nerfed the thief at the same time.
Shadow Embrace took a hard nerf. Cloaked in Shadow would of been nice but they made it a GM! No one will take it over SR. Let’s not get started with the Acro nerfs.
If they didn’t nerf Acro and SA lines, Thief would be in a lot better position.
Thieves got taken down a notch with the big balance patch, but it’s mainly because of how much other classes improved, particularly mesmers who thieves used to counter pretty handily.
Partially true. Don’t mind buffing other classes but they nerfed the thief at the same time.
Shadow Embrace took a hard nerf. Cloaked in Shadow would of been nice but they made it a GM! No one will take it over SR. Let’s not get started with the Acro nerfs.
If they didn’t nerf Acro and SA lines, Thief would be in a lot better position.
don’t forget that the only weapon combo that has any chance of success in the long run is dp
Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.
Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.
Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases. We got, what.. a nerf to a trait people rarely used before and 25% less die if we arent hurting anyone.
To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.
It doesnt feel fair, but pretty sure any arguments to that effect will be promptly shut down with “nope, nope, stealth, lalalala”
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.
Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.
Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases.
To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.
fyi i have more hp, more power and more crit dmg now than before the patch (22k hp to be exact)
i die in 3 hits, before the patch that NEVER happened unless a thief or warrior got you good
but now everything is a major threat to the thief
and even tho i have 600 more power and 30% more crit dmg my backstabs do 3-4k less damage than pre patch
anything else?
Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.
Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.
Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases.
To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.
fyi i have more hp, more power and more crit dmg now than before the patch (22k hp to be exact)
i die in 3 hits, before the patch that NEVER happened unless a thief or warrior got you good
but now everything is a major threat to the thief
and even tho i have 600 more power and 30% more crit dmg my backstabs do 3-4k less damage than pre patch
anything else?
we’re dying in three hits because that power buff you have was taken directly out of your mitgation with the “traits no longer give stats” change. You may be stronger but other classes got both active mitigation buffs AND the power buff, so in the end thieves are ones getting blown up if they’re not stealthed.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Thieves now have to work harder for wins vs. any class, because they have only had defense applied to them when they are in stealth.
Since traits no longer allow a thief to spec for some mitigation, they must either spec glassy with high dps or tanky with low dps.
Compared to other classes that got resistances and mitigation built in that synergise well with their current playstyles, thieves have gotten comparatively little to help them balance against the general dps increases.
To maintain current effectiveness, the thief players need to either get better regarding tactics.
fyi i have more hp, more power and more crit dmg now than before the patch (22k hp to be exact)
i die in 3 hits, before the patch that NEVER happened unless a thief or warrior got you good
but now everything is a major threat to the thief
and even tho i have 600 more power and 30% more crit dmg my backstabs do 3-4k less damage than pre patch
anything else?
we’re dying in three hits because that power buff you have was taken directly out of your mitgation with the “traits no longer give stats” change. You may be stronger but other classes got both active mitigation buffs AND the power buff, so in the end thieves are ones getting blown up if they’re not stealthed.
yes, technically the thief got a slight dmg buff, a nerf to everything else
1st the dmg buff wasn’t needed
2nd almost every class was buffed more/got more out of the patch than the thief
3rd the best thing thief can do atm is run away, e.g. my medi guard outperforms the thief in every categorie besiedes stealth and mobility, that is just pathetic
but ppl keep crying about the thief being op, and the devs don’t give a kitten about the class, just check the patch notes, our traits are mostly still useless (best example acrobatic)
our sustain is non existant
gg anet you fixed the bugs we had in our traps, fyi the skills never used because they don’t benefit in any way
anet DESTROYED build variaty
honestly, if you love thief, keep playing it and relearn and get used to running away out of almost every fight since you are almost always at a disadvantage, or go play mesmer, he can do everything we can, just better, plus he has a shorter cd blink
instastealth
more stealth uptime
invuln
more hp
etc
Personally, I’d be happy if most thieves switched to other classes. Most of the players have no idea the role of the thief and so they are pretty useless.
As for the OP’s comments, the issue is the thief class only plays a very targeted role at this point. The ONLY thing keeping thieves from junk tier is shortbow 5. Without that 1 skill, other classes play every role better than a thief.
you can’t compare pvp to wvw
in pvp thief is ok, not good not bad, just ok
but in wvw thief is just a joke
No idea where I talked about wvw or somebody else did it before. I was talking about pvp as this is the pvp subforum. Talking about wvw, I dont think a thief was ever important for zerk action, small encounters or gvgs are again sth. different.
But again, if thiefs are “not good”, why does every single team have one. There are many classes that are not played in all teams (guardian, nec, ranger, war, engi). Problem in general is, a lot of players are only focusing on one player and another one can easily burst them. Surely, a thief playing like this will die very quickly in teamfights. It may be harder to play them than before, but thiefs still are powerfull and usefull. 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 for sure.
To the post before mine: Yes, the shortbow teleport is one of the main reasons thiefs are pretty important.
Okay, yes, thieves have amazing mobility, I can run away from any class no problem, but decapping points just isn’t fun. I play the game to have fun, and fun to me is fighting, that’s why I picked thief in the first place. We had a fighting chance against every class, and if you played it right, fantastic survivability. If the thief’s role is now “decamping empty points and +1ing team fights” that’s very sad to me. Those don’t take any skill whatsoever in a class I have a lot of skill in.
Like I said, I made a mesmer and whoa PvP just got easy.
theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.
Mesmer is similar but not as mobile
A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.
Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.
It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
I totaly dont agree. Thiefs still can fight every other class (well, most of the other classes). Surely, as it is the most mobil class, thiefs often need to do the decaping and +1 fights, but there are still enough other jobs for the thief to be done. In unteamed ranked matches (yes, real teams fighting most times looks a bit differently) still a lot of thiefs start by sololy going far, with a lot of succes. Why shouldnt a thief 1v1? It has all the capabilities to do that.
The main thing about thief is that it is the weakest class when it comes to 1v1. Yet people are always complaining about the class and stealth. It’s definitely a learn to play issue, cause once you know how to deal with one it’s makes their job so much harder.
theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.
Mesmer is similar but not as mobile
A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.
Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.
It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.
So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.
Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.
Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Again I cant agree. The weakest 1v1 class? I play quite often on 1v1 servers. Either my skill is veery high (which i doubt) or the thief works 1v1. Sure, its hard to kill a good dps-guardian or a well played cele-ele, necros on full ds are also quite hard. There is not only stealth but also a lot of interrupts and blinds. If sb. knows to play a thief, he is as good at 1v1 as other classes.
Thiefs that can only survivie because of stealth are not good thiefs, quite simple.
@NeXeD: I simply agree
There are a lot of super hard class for thief in 1vs1 now, maybe you can win if you play flawless (and why you need to play flawless and they no?) but the risk is very high and you waste too much time to do this in a tournament scenario.
There are A LoT of better options for 1vs1, 1vs1 for a thief needs to be the last option basically almost every profession, it’s simply a waste of capability
1vs1 server (where thief is really weaker than before the patch) and tournament scenario are really different.
It’s a fact, i remember 1vs1 server before the patch where thief was a really dominant profession, now it’s like an endangered species.
theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.
Mesmer is similar but not as mobile
A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.
Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.
It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.
So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.
Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.
Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.
Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.
And a thief being able to do okay in the hands of a skilled player is a given. The problem that needs to be addressed is the comparative effort required to be borderline effective with a thief vs other classes.
Best +1er is an empty trophy title too, because any +1 leads to loss on the outnumbered if the +1ing player is not incompetent.
And they are the most mobile -only- if they carry shortbow. Which essentially means that to even play baseline effective (including noncombat decapping and +1s that anyone can do anyway) they have to play a specific weapon set.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.
Mesmer is similar but not as mobile
A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.
Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.
It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.
So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.
Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.
Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.
Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.
And a thief being able to do okay in the hands of a skilled player is a given. The problem that needs to be addressed is the comparative effort required to be borderline effective with a thief vs other classes.
Best +1er is an empty trophy title too, because any +1 leads to loss on the outnumbered if the +1ing player is not incompetent.
And they are the most mobile -only- if they carry shortbow. Which essentially means that to even play baseline effective (including noncombat decapping and +1s that anyone can do anyway) they have to play a specific weapon set.
What the hell are you talking about non combat classes and combat classes…. Necro being able to 1vx before june?
wow I thought all the people who thought necro is focused due to their power went the way of the dodo…..
That’s completely false, you focus the necro because he has no invulns no blocks no evades so it’s gonna be easier to drop the slow moving class without an o kitten button.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
theif is faster, it can +1 fights faster and decap faster, and alot of the time you have no clue it’s coming.
Mesmer is similar but not as mobile
A class that has combat capability but is delegated to “do not fight unless you are helping X fight” is a failure of a class in a game that purports to not shoehorn classes into roles.
Thieves are tantamount to stereotypical healers, minus being able to actually heal.
It stupid. to be perfectly blunt.
So what before the patch necro was that way for a long time.
Theives are still on the top teams even though it’s “stupid” Because they are the best +1ers, the most mobile class, and in the hands of a skilled player can still probably beat every class every build this game has to offer.
Also it’s not just combat mobility for theives.
Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.
And a thief being able to do okay in the hands of a skilled player is a given. The problem that needs to be addressed is the comparative effort required to be borderline effective with a thief vs other classes.
Best +1er is an empty trophy title too, because any +1 leads to loss on the outnumbered if the +1ing player is not incompetent.
And they are the most mobile -only- if they carry shortbow. Which essentially means that to even play baseline effective (including noncombat decapping and +1s that anyone can do anyway) they have to play a specific weapon set.
What the hell are you talking about non combat classes and combat classes…. Necro being able to 1vx before june?
wow I thought all the people who thought necro is focused due to their power went the way of the dodo…..
That’s completely false, you focus the necro because he has no invulns no blocks no evades so it’s gonna be easier to drop the slow moving class without an o kitten button.
?
That may be true for you, I suppose. I focus necros because they bomb points with wells and hobble anyone fighting for decap.
And Lich form qualifies as an “o kitten” button, imo.
But to each their own I guess? This is about thief being useless.
EDIT: I meant XvXes.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Thief is not meant to win 1v1s, it is meant to win games.
says who?
What happend is: dev responsible for thieves tried to balance them. Devs responsible for other classes went for power creep. In vacuum thieves are fine, in comparison to other classes not so much. Nerf to SE, entire SA traitline, los of stats and never implemented but listed changes (cough withdraw) didn’t help either. DPS trait lines are quite discouraging if you compare to other classes. Not to mention that condis (thief weakness) and mesmers (that fill same role) got buffed by a lot.
Good thieves are still wanted thanks to moblity/team support (assuming you enjoy being stealth/rez/decap/set up the kills for other pet for your team) but i am guessing for mediocre/average/soloq thief there is no place in pvp atm. Those rerolled mesmers probably~
Thief was never meta due to fighting potential it was always mobility and finishing off 2v1,weaker players anything that won’t take long also being to land the first strike. Duels in open servers differ from those in an actual matches all they did was enforce the decapper/executioner role of thief with nerfs and unfulfilled promises as well.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
So I main d/p thief, and, until recently, I thought I was pretty good at it. Before, I could take down most classes 1v1 most of the time (with the exception of engi, guard, and sometimes warrior), but now, I find myself running from fights so often that I’m thinking about switching my main to mesmer.
My question is are other experienced thieves finding the same thing? Or have I just gotten worse all of a sudden?
Same here, the rot started for me when black powder was nerfed , but now its much, much harder; I really feel my ping, its completely unforgiving.
I don’t know about you guys but I am currently enjoying and having fun being a Combat Medic in spvp; though I get kills sometimes also decap, Thief life is quite difficult nowadays and if you stay more than 7sec in a node you’re dead.
[Urge]
Between a master and apprentice, i would love to see the differences.
What happend is: dev responsible for thieves tried to balance them. Devs responsible for other classes went for power creep. In vacuum thieves are fine, in comparison to other classes not so much.(…)
^This.
To many dev’s tuning classes at their own way.. exactly, i tough they would do this as a team it looks each one does each class or 2 classes and game end with huge efficiency gap between weapons and builds.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
you can rez people up easily and have decent survive and still maintain the high insta burst with even farther range
shadow art thief and mantra mesmer are both zerkers who have the ability to rez up their bunkers constantly.
except mantra mesmer is abit stronger…..not sure after nerf, didnt have time to play much
Necros were not noncombat classes. They shone to the point of needing to get focused in 1vxs, sure, but they were perfectly capable of holding points, decapping, and 1v1s, especially with Lich being a thing.
Hmm, I thought we focused necro to quickly outnumber opponents on the map not coz we were scurrrred of Lich.
Thief might have been OP at launch but overtime the thief profession degraded from OP to hard hitting and hard to catch > best glass cannon > one of the best glass cannons > best 1v1 > one of the best 1v1 > best +1s.
And while the thief has been nerfed over the years the complaints have not. This can be compared to a relationship where one side is constantly trying to appease the other by changing themselves while the significant other isn’t. And no matter how much the person changes the problem still persists.
So if things are being done but nothing has changed about the problem, then most likely the problem stems from the other and not the one originally subjected to the changes. In this case, the players who complain about the profession have not changed from their original state while the thief has been reduced from OP to +1 only. They keep complaining about a class even though the nerfs have had a clear effect.
The players complaining about this single profession are the issue, not the profession. I am pretty sure I have said this before in the form of a story.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Again I cant agree. The weakest 1v1 class? I play quite often on 1v1 servers. Either my skill is veery high (which i doubt) or the thief works 1v1. Sure, its hard to kill a good dps-guardian or a well played cele-ele, necros on full ds are also quite hard. There is not only stealth but also a lot of interrupts and blinds. If sb. knows to play a thief, he is as good at 1v1 as other classes.
Thiefs that can only survivie because of stealth are not good thiefs, quite simple.
@NeXeD: I simply agree
