Guild Wars 2

Is it based purely on MMR?

Did I skip right over it by getting a 100% winrate in Ruby playing core ranger?

Part of me thinks that I just wasn’t bad enough to lose? The only games I lost were 1 in Emerald because my teammates were awful and I was refusing to carry the team fight (so that was my bad). And then later I just kept 1 v 1ing for funsies in Saphire so my team also kept losing in the team fight. Afterwards I would just go carry the team fight and we’d be on our merry way to a crushing victory.

This kind of just makes me think that “MMR Hell” is simply that people are where they are supposed to be.

Amber/Emerald: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/55791944
Rest of Emerald: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56057538
Saphire: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56586587
Ruby: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56788837

Meanwhile: There is a thread also on the front page atm:

“Lower tier ruby what do I need 2 do 2 win”

Faux Play.6104:

I’m in the lower tier of ruby and struggling to put together win streaks. What is the main thing I need to focus on to win more matches?

match 1 504 – 466 Loss
match 2 500-340 Loss

Take a look at my vod, playing a non meta build vs. his vod playing a meta build. Given that the OP of this thread is saying, “can’t put together winstreaks” I think we could say he is in MMR Hell? Yet when you compare the two the difference in game play is apparent. I do not believe this player, at his/her current level should be making it out of Ruby.

Edit: It seems that the way season 2 works players are matched up on their teams with similar MMR which would then allow for people on winstreaks to just keep winning. This is highly likely what happened and I did just skip over “MMR Hell”.

Eurantien.4632:

Is it based purely on MMR?

Did I skip right over it by getting a 100% winrate in Ruby playing core ranger?

If you have a high MMR you probably were paired with all the best players all the way hence why you literally flew over that division.

If you want to experience “MMR hell”, crippled your MMR and then retry Ruby. Tell me how it is in soloq after that…

I haven’t experienced it either… Im enjoying this season tremendously

its just an excuse for people who arent having a lot of success in pvp this season. Most of them probably managed to grind their way to diamond and legend and now its clearly a bit more skill or mmr based and they are having problems while some players arent losing until they hit diamond.

Haven’t experienced the MMR hell either, and for those who “crippled theirs” I don’t know what to say to that. Sure I lost, but biggest lose streak I ever got was just 3 in a row then it changed around especially after I examined myself for the flaws, adjusted my build, and adapted.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Haven’t experienced the MMR hell either, and for those who “crippled theirs” I don’t know what to say to that. Sure I lost, but biggest lose streak I ever got was just 3 in a row then it changed around especially after I examined myself for the flaws, adjusted my build, and adapted.

Exactly,

For all the games I lost I know what I did wrong and stopped doing that. Started winning again.

I know that is often a difficult thing for players to do, but without it I can’t side with someone who says they are stuck in “MMR Hell” there is ALWAYS something you could have done better.

MMR hell is if you’re unlucky enough through different circumstances to get bad teammates and because they’re bad your chances of moving up are lessened. It’s one thing to have bads and you vs. all bads it’s another thing when it’s good players vs. you and bads.

says the man who won power ball “winning lottery is easy , just buy a ticket…”
Also the myth that mmr hell only happen to bad players have been busted over and over with players who made it into diamond and legend encountering it themselves.

I myself hit the hell at sapphire t2 for over a week . I took a 30 hr break then win streaked into diamond . I know mmr hell exist and tbh some of the players at diamond are just as bad as the players in sapphire when I was stuck in mmr hell..

believe me it exists – have improved myself so much since when I started doing ranked but because of my mistakes early on I am stuck – I am continuing to improve myself but cant carry a team yet so still stuck in MMRHell!

@Mogar.9216 And bosses get positions they don’t even deserve. You got passed for a promotion even though you FEEL you deserve it. Your sibling ate the last poptart. The world is one injustice after another. Sometimes people do get to diamond maybe they got carried, maybe they were playing brilliant compared to the current time bracket but are subpar at higher levels. It happens. There are blow outs even in professional sports games. Boxer gets knocked out in 2nd round toted to be “The Fight of the Century!” ..etc… just the nature of the game, not everyone is going to do OMG amazing….sometimes it takes work, effort, or just determination to make it thru. Just gotta ask yourself how bad you want it… or … .quit…

It’s not MMR hell, they fixed that awhile ago. This is new. i refer to it as “The Pit’s”

get over yourselfs, don’t make me climb up there and put you down

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Mogar.9216 And bosses get positions they don’t even deserve. You got passed for a promotion even though you FEEL you deserve it. Your sibling ate the last poptart. The world is one injustice after another. Sometimes people do get to diamond maybe they got carried, maybe they were playing brilliant compared to the current time bracket but are subpar at higher levels. It happens. There are blow outs even in professional sports games. Boxer gets knocked out in 2nd round toted to be “The Fight of the Century!” ..etc… just the nature of the game, not everyone is going to do OMG amazing….sometimes it takes work, effort, or just determination to make it thru. Just gotta ask yourself how bad you want it… or … .quit…

you are mistaken mmr hell with progression limit. At some pt we all hit a line where everyone is just as good or better than us. That point should be about 50% win rate in an ideal system not 5% win rate. 5% win rate should NEVER happen. A good system should not even allow someone advance to a pt where 95% of the players in his bracket is better than him.

does anyone noticed that OP has a rather low rank and also low match participation history?

MMR hell hit the old players with high rank and big match participation history stretching all the way back to the old leadership board.

to make a point. a old player literally played an alt account with little match history like OP’s and manage to breeze through to diamond while his main account that has a lot match history is stuck in ruby. he also made a thread about it.

the following screenshot was taken in a match i had a moment ago. i am in the full ruby team. notice the score gap? assuming that the ruby in the diamond team are people from the t5 t6 section. otherwise, is hard to be paired up with diamond. so how these people managed to reach diamond and top section of the ruby? is MMR really working or MMR is just a bias system that give bad players a chance to go up by matching them against bad players most of the time while the good players are slaughtering each other or being forced to be grouped with bad players against average players because the MMR says is balanced?

Yes, a good player taking a new account into S2 will get fast tracked to Diamond/Legendary with easy matches. That’s the whole point of the MMR complaints of S2.

Also, I watched the first few matches of Ruby and couldn’t believe what I was watching. Do you really believe those were difficult or challenging matches? To me those were milk run at best. Seriously, what does the combat tab look like after these matches? My Ruby matches have a lot more effort going into them and still getting loses. I’m consistently dishing out damage in the 700-800k range and upwards of 1.1 million range. That’s the amount of work and effort I’m putting into my Ruby matches. Those matches were so slow and so little combat in them, I’d think I was watching EU matches.

SkyShroud.2865:

does anyone noticed that OP has a rather low rank and also low match participation history?

MMR hell hit the old players with high rank and big match participation history stretching all the way back to the old leadership board.

to make a point. a old player literally played an alt account with little match history like OP’s and manage to breeze through to diamond while his main account that has a lot match history is stuck in ruby. he also made a thread about it.

That would be really interesting if this was true and there were more people experiencing this issue. As it stands, I have had an easy time on my alt account. I think part of that might be the fact the good players are out of the way so I can just surf over everyone until I get to legendary. So far, I have definitely lost more games on my main account playing druid, however, I know that when queuing on my druid I wasn’t gunning for wins I was just playing the game however I pleased. I think that had more to do with why I’ve lost more games on my main than my alt on the way to legendary so far than any sort of MMR mysticism.

MMR hell exists for the players who are good, but not as good as proleague. If you get a bit of bad luck, it drops your MMR and then the system begins to pair you with bad teammates. If you don’t break out of that, your MMR just drops more and you get even worse teammates who are beyond carrying. Some of them are so bad, it would be better to not have them because they’re rally botting.

This is particularly prevalent if it happens right after your cross into ruby, diamond, or legendary. All the people who advanced through luck and being carried but are terrible players pool at the bottom of the tier. If you get on a losing streak at the bottom of a tier, you’re pretty much gonna be screwed.

it does not matter the reasons why you initially lose more games I was experimenting a the start the hell comes from the fact that once in it you cant get easily out with improving or correcting this – maybe players who are so good they can carry their team can but for those who cant they are stuck in MMRHell
I have done all I can improving and will carry on trying but don’t expect to escape

Pretty funny for a pro league player to try and make out that there is no mmr hell because he didn’t get stuck in it.

And BTW you are ignoring the modelling people are doing which have been posted in more than 1 thread and which have been acknowledged by the devs.

I’m getting the impression that If I want to get into MMR Hell I need to lose a lot? I need to do it at the beginning of diamond or ruby (I just got into diamond so this might be a good spot)? As I am not going to intentionally lose I can try to win games on classes I’m bad at and builds that aren’t viable. I’ll lose, but I’ll be trying to win so I’d make myself feel better about it haha (sorry team). Yet It is my understanding that people think a proleague player, such as myself, that got into MMR Hell would actually be able to just get back out. Therefore, any attempt for me to try and get into and back out is pointless because I probably could? I’m not really trying to prove it doesn’t exist it is just my experience that it doesn’t. I’m genuinely curious to experience MMR Hell in this game but It seems like I won’t be able to? Which by extension would mean that for me, MMR Hell actually doesn’t exist… but it does for those who are actually not good enough to get out of the pit once they get into it?

Eurantien.4632:

any sort of MMR mysticism.

At the beginning of the Ruby video you have a fairly new account with a 70% win rate. Of course that accounts MMR is going to be higher than an older established account. Previous seasons and ladders were designed to provide a competitive environment and keep everyone near 50% win rate. So yes, a new account can have a much easier time in S2 than any previous season or ladder.

there is no mmr hell. the only “hell” some players are in is their own, thinking they are better than they actually are.

i got to sapphire by playing fresh air ele and people were never focusing me in teamfights, letting me freecast my air overloads that wiped the entire team.

later i started playing rev and necro, switched to cleric ele in order to complete the stupid ascension achievements, playing 3 matches per day for those dailies.

so what did i do? i checked what classes my team has, what classes the enemy team has and based on that i rerolled to either rev necro or ele. i told people where to go, how to rotate, when to go boss. some people flamed me for it, some were happy – and we won.

i did 95% of my matches soloq and the rest duoq, maintaining a winrate of 80% or higher from amber to legendary. i have 8500 pvp matches and although i’m a bit rusty at the moment i still know how to rotate.

that’s something that many players i encountered don’t know. they don’t adapt their playstyle, don’t switch classes most of the time, don’t know how to rotate. 99% of the time splits were 4 mid 1 close, no far pushes, nothing.
they chase 3v1, fight 1v1 on capped enemy nodes vs a scrapper or ele, do beast when your team needs you, run lord when it’s already 480… don’t watch map, don’t prepare for respawn, don’t scout, don’t watch people disengage fights, don’t know their roles. and then they cry because they are stuck.

guess what, if you’re stuck in ruby/diamond then it’s in 99% of the cases your own fault. yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents. and if you have 5 terrible players as opponents make sure that your team only cosists of 4.

Eurantien.4632:

I’m getting the impression that If I want to get into MMR Hell I need to lose a lot? I need to do it at the beginning of diamond or ruby

Or, you can build a 5 man out of non MMR believers and tank matches until the account is under 50% win rate. Then try to Solo Q and see how it goes. Though you already missed out on Ruby Hell, which appears to be the worst kind of hell from what has been described.

the MMR hell i experienced is the last tier of emerald and sapphire, even if i had winning streak on the tiers before but once reach that last tier, i got group up with some really absurd players that has no idea what they are doing. the worst part is to match against a team that knows what they doing. i end up spending lot of matches in those last tiers.

it gets better in ruby, my winning rate beginning to raise up but u still see one or two players like that in ur team. i saw a signet warrior once as well. yes, signet warrior in ruby.

Jekkt.6045:

yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents.

No, no, and NO! Matrch making takes MMR to build a team. Then match making uses Pip Range to find an opposing team. It does not try, at all, to find an opponent of similar MMR to make a competitive match. So when we have Joe Legendary here running on Alt account, which many are doing, its the perfect example of how lower MMR players can be matched against high MMR players in lower divisions.

DeWolfe.2174:

Jekkt.6045:

yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents.

No, no, and NO! Matrch making takes MMR to build a team. Then match making uses Pip Range to find an opposing team. It does not try, at all, to find an opponent of similar MMR to make a competitive match. So when we have Joe Legendary here running on Alt account, which many are doing, its the perfect example of how lower MMR players can be matched against high MMR players in lower divisions.

that’s your own illusion. mmr doesn’t mean anything, it’s a number that doesn’t win games. i’m sure there have been many games in which the enemy team had a higher mmr than mine and we still won. i beat a couple of 5man premades along the way to legendary too. you’re discouraging yourself by always taking mmr too seriously.

Eurantien.4632:

Is it based purely on MMR?

Did I skip right over it by getting a 100% winrate in Ruby playing core ranger?

Part of me thinks that I just wasn’t bad enough to lose? The only games I lost were 1 in Emerald because my teammates were awful and I was refusing to carry the team fight (so that was my bad). And then later I just kept 1 v 1ing for funsies in Saphire so my team also kept losing in the team fight. Afterwards I would just go carry the team fight and we’d be on our merry way to a crushing victory.

This kind of just makes me think that “MMR Hell” is simply that people are where they are supposed to be.

Amber/Emerald: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/55791944
Rest of Emerald: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56057538
Saphire: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56586587
Ruby: https://www.twitch.tv/eurantien/v/56788837

Meanwhile: There is a thread also on the front page atm:

“Lower tier ruby what do I need 2 do 2 win”

Faux Play.6104:

I’m in the lower tier of ruby and struggling to put together win streaks. What is the main thing I need to focus on to win more matches?

match 1 504 – 466 Loss
match 2 500-340 Loss

Take a look at my vod, playing a non meta build vs. his vod playing a meta build. Given that the OP of this thread is saying, “can’t put together winstreaks” I think we could say he is in MMR Hell? Yet when you compare the two the difference in game play is apparent. I do not believe this player, at his/her current level should be making it out of Ruby.

Team up with someone that is in mmr hell and enjoy the pain.

Jekkt.6045:

there is no mmr hell. the only “hell” some players are in is their own, thinking they are better than they actually are.

Yet people are modelling the system and providing mathematical proof that it does exist and have been acknowledged by the devs

Jekkt.6045:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jekkt.6045:

yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents.

No, no, and NO! Matrch making takes MMR to build a team. Then match making uses Pip Range to find an opposing team. It does not try, at all, to find an opponent of similar MMR to make a competitive match. So when we have Joe Legendary here running on Alt account, which many are doing, its the perfect example of how lower MMR players can be matched against high MMR players in lower divisions.

that’s your own illusion. mmr doesn’t mean anything, it’s a number that doesn’t win games. i’m sure there have been many games in which the enemy team had a higher mmr than mine and we still won. i beat a couple of 5man premades along the way to legendary too. you’re discouraging yourself by always taking mmr too seriously.

There is no illusion in saying MMR is used to make teams but not to find opponents. Look for yourself at the algorithm. I too defeated teams who seemed stronger but what does it prove? How does it change the fact this is how teams are made.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jekkt.6045:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jekkt.6045:

yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents.

No, no, and NO! Matrch making takes MMR to build a team. Then match making uses Pip Range to find an opposing team. It does not try, at all, to find an opponent of similar MMR to make a competitive match. So when we have Joe Legendary here running on Alt account, which many are doing, its the perfect example of how lower MMR players can be matched against high MMR players in lower divisions.

that’s your own illusion. mmr doesn’t mean anything, it’s a number that doesn’t win games. i’m sure there have been many games in which the enemy team had a higher mmr than mine and we still won. i beat a couple of 5man premades along the way to legendary too. you’re discouraging yourself by always taking mmr too seriously.

There is no illusion in saying MMR is used to make teams but not to find opponents. Look for yourself at the algorithm. I too defeated teams who seemed stronger but what does it prove? How does it change the fact this is how teams are made.

i’m not saying the system doesn’t match teams by mmr. what i’m saying is that mmr is just a number, it’s in no way a guaranteed loss if the enemy team has a higher mmr.

Jekkt.6045:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jekkt.6045:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jekkt.6045:

yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents.

No, no, and NO! Matrch making takes MMR to build a team. Then match making uses Pip Range to find an opposing team. It does not try, at all, to find an opponent of similar MMR to make a competitive match. So when we have Joe Legendary here running on Alt account, which many are doing, its the perfect example of how lower MMR players can be matched against high MMR players in lower divisions.

that’s your own illusion. mmr doesn’t mean anything, it’s a number that doesn’t win games. i’m sure there have been many games in which the enemy team had a higher mmr than mine and we still won. i beat a couple of 5man premades along the way to legendary too. you’re discouraging yourself by always taking mmr too seriously.

There is no illusion in saying MMR is used to make teams but not to find opponents. Look for yourself at the algorithm. I too defeated teams who seemed stronger but what does it prove? How does it change the fact this is how teams are made.

i’m not saying the system doesn’t match teams by mmr. what i’m saying is that mmr is just a number, it’s in no way a guaranteed loss if the enemy team has a higher mmr.

I agree. that is why I always fight to the bitter end. I win some and loose some. However, it make win streaks incredibly hard to get and maintain is the big difference since 80% of the team skill level can be very volatile. And I mean VERY as some players are “at least as good as me or better” up to “this guy is playing for the first time or what”.

I think its hilarious, how “pro” players dont want to team up with players stuck in mmr hell and think they are providing evidence that mmr hell doesnt exist by creating new f2p accounts… it kinda says a lot about the so called “pro” players.

Every dumb donkey can see that if you start with a high volatile but average mmr, and you win the first 10 or so matches, your mmr will steadily climb. You will get put on the winning side more often than on the loosing side… the higher your mmr, the less you get put on the loosing side… et voila…

What you’ve actually proven, is how kittening BROKEN this system is. You think it takes skill to win if you are put against worse teams all the time? No, it doesnt.

Jekkt.6045:

there is no mmr hell. the only “hell” some players are in is their own, thinking they are better than they actually are.

Your personal anecdote serves no purpose. As long as you keep a decently high MMR, you get matched with better players, you win a good amount of the time, and your MMR stays high.

In another thread, someone has evidence based on math that it does exist. I think I’ll trust that over elitism.

Yasi.9065:

I think its hilarious, how “pro” players dont want to team up with players stuck in mmr hell and think they are providing evidence that mmr hell doesnt exist by creating new f2p accounts… it kinda says a lot about the so called “pro” players.

Every dumb donkey can see that if you start with a high volatile but average mmr, and you win the first 10 or so matches, your mmr will steadily climb. You will get put on the winning side more often than on the loosing side… the higher your mmr, the less you get put on the loosing side… et voila…

What you’ve actually proven, is how kittening BROKEN this system is. You think it takes skill to win if you are put against worse teams all the time? No, it doesnt.

I mean at this point I’ve proposed to let people play on my account or to team with me and explain several time why starting a new account o prove anything without first crippling your MMR is just pure BS.

At this point I don’t know what more I can do. The moral of the story for me is if ppl don’t want to see something they plain won’t.

Its quite obvious, that players with high mmr are happy with the system – because they get easy wins – and want it to stay that way. So they provide phony evidence in the hopes anet will listen to them and will NOT reset their mmr, will NOT change the system and they keep on getting their cheap victories.

Yasi.9065:

Its quite obvious, that players with high mmr are happy with the system – because they get easy wins – and want it to stay that way. So they provide phony evidence in the hopes anet will listen to them and will NOT reset their mmr, will NOT change the system and they keep on getting their cheap victories.

I’d rather have close challenging games than easy wins. Even if they reset mmrs won’t that just make it worse for everyone? Bad player get stuck in MMR Hell faster, and good players have to climb over each other to get their mmrs up?

Yasi.9065:

I think its hilarious, how “pro” players dont want to team up with players stuck in mmr hell and think they are providing evidence that mmr hell doesnt exist by creating new f2p accounts… it kinda says a lot about the so called “pro” players.

This was just my alt EU account I’ve had for awhile. I’d be happy to queue with someone whose stuck in “MMR Hell” and see whats up. I never said anywhere I didn’t want to team up with someone… so not really sure where you’re coming from with this.

Yasi.9065:

What you’ve actually proven, is how kittening BROKEN this system is. You think it takes skill to win if you are put against worse teams all the time? No, it doesnt.

I mean, of course they are worse, right? I mean my team has 4 players who are probably stuck in Ruby, and same with their 5? And then my team has me… while the other team might have that guy I used as an example. Although his build is better than mine is I am playing better than they are and am effectively carrying, right? Do people with higher MMR really get put against “worse” teams? Does the system this season really not try to average the MMRs of each team before matching them up?

Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.

Eurantien.4632:

Yasi.9065:

Its quite obvious, that players with high mmr are happy with the system – because they get easy wins – and want it to stay that way. So they provide phony evidence in the hopes anet will listen to them and will NOT reset their mmr, will NOT change the system and they keep on getting their cheap victories.

I’d rather have close challenging games than easy wins. Even if they reset mmrs won’t that just make it worse for everyone? Bad player get stuck in MMR Hell faster, and good players have to climb over each other to get their mmrs up?

if they just random matched players in their pip range. EVERYONE other than the best 5 players in the whole game will over time reach a pt where they get 50% win rate at their right place in the ladder. And then if you get better you’ll win more than 50% and move up until you get to 50% and if you get worse you will lose more and drop down until you get to 50%. There will be no mmr hell for anyone.

You know, normally I wouldn’t argue overly much with the “pro” players, since they play more than I do. However, given the distinct (and rather drastic) differences Ive had on my two accounts… the system needs some tweaking.

Several players asked for someone to queue with them to proof there are just limits on what is possible to carry.
Yet nobody ever answered them. Instead we see every other day pro players on their alt accounts farming their way through divisions, some even as teams.
Its funny how those players “prefer close matches”, but apparently like farming lower divisions just a bit more.

Did you ever have a team with 1+ teammates going afk after first timefight was a fail? I guess not. But thats the kind of teams you get when you are stuck in mmr hell.

And btw, Browrain? Im not stuck anymore, I clawed my way out, on my main account. Fun fact here: on other accounts Im well past ruby without ever getting stuck, one account even breezed right through diamond into legendary. Same player, one account getting stuck in mmr hell in ruby, another account breezing through to legendary, other accounts breezing through until diamond.
But of course, the system isnt broken at all. Must have been the full moon that allowed me to get to legendary quite easily. Or maybe I had pms and thats what got me stuck in ruby…

Browrain.7346:

Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.

Of course, that is why I accept ppl’s invitations to play with me… Oh the irony…

Eurantien.4632:

Does the system this season really not try to average the MMRs of each team before matching them up?

It takes into account the MMR of your team, but does not for the team you’re up against.

See the season 2 preview:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/

Pertinent portion highlighted below:

As we’ve mentioned previously, Ranked matchmaking in PvP during season two will now be based primarily on your current division placement and a predetermined “pip range” that extends from that spot. We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level.

That indicates the team you’re playing against is purely matched up with your team by division only, not MMR.

SkyShroud.2865:

does anyone noticed that OP has a rather low rank and also low match participation history?

OP is an also an ESL player.

Earlier in the thread I posted:

Those matches were so slow and so little combat in them, I’d think I was watching EU matches.

Later in the thread:

This was just my alt EU account

F’n knew it just by watching. Please, do not compared EU matches to NA matches. It’s like apples and oranges, really.

Browrain.7346:

Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.

So, from another thread where an Anet Dev came in and said this yesterday

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Never heard of lip service or PR work have you?

skcamow.3527:

Eurantien.4632:

Does the system this season really not try to average the MMRs of each team before matching them up?

It takes into account the MMR of your team, but does not for the team you’re up against.

See the season 2 preview:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/

Pertinent portion highlighted below:

As we’ve mentioned previously, Ranked matchmaking in PvP during season two will now be based primarily on your current division placement and a predetermined “pip range” that extends from that spot. We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level.

That indicates the team you’re playing against is purely matched up with your team by division only, not MMR.

So then I did just skip over it. That’s a shame.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Never heard of lip service or PR work have you?

<sarcasm>Because Evan has been known to do that a lot and without any sarcasm or bite to it too. </sarcasm>

But then, maybe you are just afraid of having to work a bit for legendary division next season?

DeWolfe.2174:

Browrain.7346:

Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.

So, from another thread where an Anet Dev came in and said this yesterday

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Yes I saw that post. Nowhere does he say that mmr hell exists, only that they acknowledge the issues people are having with the system. People don’t enjoy losing 10 times in a row, even if they’re part of the reason they’re losing.

Browrain.7346:

DeWolfe.2174:

Browrain.7346:

Ty for posting this Eura. However, as you can see people will completely disregard what you say to convince themselves it’s the system keeping them down, not their own skill level. I don’t think anything can convince them otherwise, even if an ANet dev came in here and straight up said mmr hell doesn’t exist.

So, from another thread where an Anet Dev came in and said this yesterday

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Yes I saw that post. Nowhere does he say that mmr hell exists, only that they acknowledge the issues people are having with the system. People don’t enjoy losing 10 times in a row, even if they’re part of the reason they’re losing.

MMR hell does indeed exists. Flip a coin 10 times and record the results. Chances are very slim that it’ll land on heads or tails all 10 times. Likewise the result of PvP is twofold: you win or you lose. It isn’t fun losing 10 times in a row and it isn’t fun when your turn to win never comes up except during that rare window when your unlucky streak has an illusion of ending.

As far as I’m concerned, people have an overblown opinion of how good they are and they are also convinced that they should get to legendary as long as they keep queuing ranked. I don’t think that everyone should get legendary, and I think that what people consider “MMR hell” is actually the right bracket for them if they can’t get out of it. The fact that exceptional players can get to legendary without many problems on an alt account, which would have no MMR to “help” them, convinces me even more of this.