Little backstory, i got kittened by the placement matches and have been wallowing in bronze hell. I usually main thief/engi and was a bit blown away by how much DH have at their disposal, seemed like any time they were even slightly competent they just wrecked me with those sweet burst combos.
So last night i got on my guard for the first time in a year. It’s so kittening broken i don’t know what to do aside from bandwagon away.
So here’s my question: Are DH just broken as kitten, or am i l33t as kitten and the placement matches are broken?
And hey! Before i get a ton of ‘LOW LVL MMR DOESN’T MATER AL PEEPS R TRASH IN BRONZE GIT GUD!!1’
Maybe think for a moment about if everyone on the opposing team is trash (which is why they’re getting facerolled) then maybe everyone on my team is also equally trash (which is why you can’t carry out of bronze hell). For every three i win, if i lose two i stay right where i am. Imma say it’s probably both.
If you’re playing during peak hours then mm isn’t really much of an issue. If you’re playing during low population times then it is completely possible mm is putting together some crazy matches.
As for those top stats, it’s not really indicative of a broken profession. I’ve gotten every single top stat multiple times on my shoutbow druid. I’ve actually taken the time to study the different DH builds and get a feel for how they play, and though they have a low skill floor that allows players to perform better than their skill level, it’s not OP. Once you understand how the class works it’s actually pretty easy to counter. Unfortunately, most players in bronze will not take the time to understand what they are dying to and how to counter it, and thus DH feels OP to them.
Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
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Placement matches are somewhat broken. RNG with huge impact on your division.
DH: The class is easymode and some other classes are destroyed if they are not well played. Since i main ele i don´t feel this so hard and usualy destroy them (unless my team suicides in traps leaving me outnumbered …). There are so much DH´s it´s getting booring.
And coming out of low divisopns is hard. Matches are more decided from who got the worst player then who got the best one. Thief would be basically a good option to win more but is one of the bad classes agaisnt DH. Engi should be OK and is strong against DH. Maybe bring a ranged kit to bombard the point.
Even knowing that ele is not the best carry due to average map mobility i stick to it. But i have a “Nike” warrior ready to swap which can actually make a huge diffence in uncoordinated games. As engi you can stall and defend points quite well. Might not be enough to make your team win if they can´t rotate or die in traps.
Maybe think for a moment about if everyone on the opposing team is trash (which is why they’re getting facerolled) then maybe everyone on my team is also equally trash (which is why you can’t carry out of bronze hell).
The only reason why someone can carry a game is exactly because his team is just as trash as the enemy team.
On a side note, yes, Dh is more powerful at low skill rating because a lot of player don’t know how to deal with traps, or play defensively at all. It’s not rare to have silver player blowing up in the first second of a teamfight because of dh’s traps (especially if the dhs are stacked). Well, at least, that was my personal experience in silver, and the main reason i started playing ele again so i can allow my team to not die almost instantly in every teamfights.
Dh is strong, but it’s around the same power level as everything else, it counters some builds (thief/mesmer), and gets countered by other builds(ele/druid/engi).
Maybe think for a moment about if everyone on the opposing team is trash (which is why they’re getting facerolled) then maybe everyone on my team is also equally trash (which is why you can’t carry out of bronze hell).
The only reason why someone can carry a game is exactly because his team is just as trash as the enemy team.
On a side note, yes, Dh is more powerful at low skill rating because a lot of player don’t know how to deal with traps, or play defensively at all. It’s not rare to have silver player blowing up in the first second of a teamfight because of dh’s traps (especially if the dhs are stacked). Well, at least, that was my personal experience in silver, and the main reason i started playing ele again so i can allow my team to not die almost instantly in every teamfights.
Dh is strong, but it’s around the same power level as everything else, it counters some builds (thief/mesmer), and gets countered by other builds(ele/druid/engi).
It isnt just lower levels, its in gold3/platinum 1 as well.
The nerf to rev was pretty hard for above average and below players. Yes at the highest level rev is still viable but in this match a rev i would of had confidence in previous seasons couldnt do anything.
Its the biggest problem with PvP atm. The skill gap for certain builds are different and if we are honest class stacking is a issue for everyone besides the top 100 players.
DH is still broken on many levels. I would say that symbolic Dh technically has no counter and beats any build in the game or stalemates any build.
medi trapper can be killed by engi/druid but not symbols
Ive played symbolic and meditrapper and while symbolic is very tanky I feel that if I actually want to kill someone in this century I would rather use meditrapper.
Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "
dh symbolic menders can only be stalemated by paladin or menders engi or menders druid. but marauder dh symbolic can be taken out with gs power warrior, power rev, or a druid running that unblockable kitten.
It isnt just lower levels, its in gold3/platinum 1 as well.
The nerf to rev was pretty hard for above average and below players. Yes at the highest level rev is still viable but in this match a rev i would of had confidence in previous seasons couldnt do anything.
Its the biggest problem with PvP atm. The skill gap for certain builds are different and if we are honest class stacking is a issue for everyone besides the top 100 players.
Can I try to guess what happened in that fight? You guys had a 1-4 split without taking into account the enemy’s team comps and everyone just wiped at mid because the other team spammed AOEs all over the point/leeched lifeforce from the building/ele sustain and then just got snowballed from there.
Couldn’t you guys just have taken one look at that and went screw this, skip mid, take sides?
Match making is at fault for stacking classes (lol double mes/teef vs triple DHs) but I doubt it can be fixed with a pvp population this small and limited queue to solo or duo.
DH counters have been constantly eating nerfs and especially rev is not as popular anymore (thankfully) especially with so many thieves and condichronos running around to discourage it more which DH can counter so go figure…
I think the class is fine right now since their build diversity is looking good now ranging from all meditrapper variants (LB/Ham/GS)+Sword/x, Symbolic with either marauder to menders, fulltrapper yolo cancer, Burn DH/Guard with their variants depending on traitlines taken and support guard.
You would have to figure out what is the person running which is something I enjoy since HoT basically waged holy war on build diversity.
I like seeing build diversity spread around to other classes too. More new natural counters will emerge then.
Well for now roll engi/druid/ele and enjoy making that DH useless as long as you dont faceroll and expect a baked cake for it.
Get In The Van Yo[PR] -Play on Far Shiverpeaks/Gunner’s Hold/Vabbi
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
DH is strong but has counters, and the guard profession has the most diversity. I think the rest of the professions need to be balanced around it. I would also argue that thief is in a similar place, having niche roles with decent diversity. Interestingly, staff thief is very effective against DHs while d/p is an upward battle.
Also, symbolic DH is very susceptible to cc bursts. They still have the small guardian health pool with very little stability/stunbreaks.
Aethelweard Rex – Guard
Trist Lockwood – Thief
Aelius Swift – Warrior
NOW I BRONZE AND CAN’T GET OUT. HALP!!! ANET GIVE ME STUPID TEAM EVERY kitten GAME AND I CAN’T WIN CUZ ALL ENEMY FILLED WITH ANET LUV BABIES DH RAWRIORS AND ELES.
THESE ALL BS CLASSES THAT I NO VAULT N LOTUS SPAM TO WIN. SOOOO kitten BROKEN.
I NO MEANT FOR BRONZE BUT LEGEND LIKE REAL LIFE!!!
Its mostly matchmaking. DH is strong (and frankly I’m ticked off that spear of justice triggers an unblockable, unevadable hit) but it’s not broken. It fills a purpose and has counterplay.
I don’t know how to fix matchmaking though. maybe there’s a lot more people that are bad than was originally thought, or maybe the pvp season is flooded with pve players looking for shinies. We’ll need more seasons to sort that out.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
NOW I BRONZE AND CAN’T GET OUT. HALP!!! ANET GIVE ME STUPID TEAM EVERY kitten GAME AND I CAN’T WIN CUZ ALL ENEMY FILLED WITH ANET LUV BABIES DH RAWRIORS AND ELES.
THESE ALL BS CLASSES THAT I NO VAULT N LOTUS SPAM TO WIN. SOOOO kitten BROKEN.
I NO MEANT FOR BRONZE BUT LEGEND LIKE REAL LIFE!!!
Great! Now i’m deaf…need to see an ear specialist.
Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "
Its mostly matchmaking. DH is strong (and frankly I’m ticked off that spear of justice triggers an unblockable, unevadable hit) but it’s not broken. It fills a purpose and has counterplay.
I don’t know how to fix matchmaking though. maybe there’s a lot more people that are bad than was originally thought, or maybe the pvp season is flooded with pve players looking for shinies. We’ll need more seasons to sort that out.
I was thinking about this and had a tin-foil hat thought:
With the introduction of being able to acquire ascended gear PvP did get clogged up with a lot of PvE players that don’t understand the first thing about the build style, maps and nuances of PvP.
I do believe that as time goes by that those players will settle into the bottom, but I think they displace the original bronze/silver quality who do PvP and artificially push them up the ranks.
I think what’s left is a pesudo-terrible section around upper silver into low gold that is very reminiscent of how low Ruby was in the previous seasons where you saw just truly terrible play because of the people that ground their way past the safety net.
Or I could be completely full of crap in my idea, but it’s a thought nonetheless.
If you’re playing during peak hours then mm isn’t really much of an issue. If you’re playing during low population times then it is completely possible mm is putting together some crazy matches.
Agree with this. You can see this now if you queue in Unranked, even at peak time. There are fewer people playing it, so the matches are pretty nutty, with a big difference in skill levels in a single match. And you are more likely to see class stacking – I had three thieves on my team yesterday in one match. I use unranked to warm up/practice just because its so totally random.
Also, the top stats badges in OP’s screenshot aren’t really significant. You can often get the revive badge just by doing it once. Kills/Damage are strongly correlated. And a DH can easily get top heals if there isn’t a druid/ele on the team. I play druid and I pretty much get heals/revives every match unless there are other druids.
