Guild Wars 2

Archaon.9524:

Just tell me 1 spec that can SAFELY 1v1 a cele d/d ele on point without losing it, you know if they have a war crossing you can leave an offguard, if they have an engi you can leave a nec, a mes you can leave a thief, burn guard/nec, thief/offguard and so on…

But when a cele d/d is coming to your close which class/spec can hardcounter him being almost 100% sure he will win (Kill the ele) 1v1 while not losing the point? Talking about same skill level…not like scrub ele vs skilled necro or stuff like that…

Because, you know, pretty much evey spec in the game has an hardcounter that is supposed to win a 1v1 on point while on the same skill level (That’s why gw2 is a team game btw)..celestial eles have it too…right? Since anet didn’t even touch eles (oh right…they “fixed” fresh air lol) that means they’re balanced…so now anet, tell me ho to safely defend close 1v1 against eles without getting decapped or having to 2v1 him

As stated by other posters, I find them pretty easy to deal with on my necro and my mes. Mes is pu condi shatter, necro is condi / lifedrain, both on the bunker side.

The fights do last a while though, so often someone else from either team comes by, but I solo them ok.

Your mesmer will likely lose the point, though.

abc.5790:

Archaon.9524:

abc.5790:

Hi Archaon,

Warriors do well vs eles, both pre and post patch. Signet necro counters ele but an aware ele would simply go back and forth on the point and never let the necro down them.
For certain, warriors do well against eles.

ask rom about his duels with kervv too see if war has any chance against cele d/d then come back…if i say that war has no way to kill a good ele it’s because i know it, and it’s widely proven (And not at random unranked levels…i’m not talking about casual pvp here)

I can’t speak for rom and kervv because they belong to the tournament tier. The gameplay there is beyond my ability so I never compare my capabilities to theirs. Only queue unranked when trying out a build but I usually play solo, 2 or 3 man pre on ranked.

I think one main aspect that you’re missing is that in your tier of gameplay, you see a wide variety of skill levels. That means that the outcome of a fight has much less to do with what professions each player plays and more to do with the skill level of each player. In tournament tier, you have more players on a closer level of skill, which is why that works better as an example.

This is particularly true for Elementalists since there is a higher skill ceiling with the large array of skills and cooldowns.

There’s nothing wrong with being at the skill level you are, so please understand that I’m not calling you a noob or anything, but I simply mean to outline how drawing upon your personal experience isn’t as effective as observations of tourny-tier gameplay or experience in tourny-level games is to the discussion.

…of course, I’m sure there are plenty of other people here who are drawing on lower tier gameplay for their conclusions, but are unwilling to admit it. =P

Everything depends on your player’s fingers & hands.

There is no perfect counter.

Good player will always win no matter what, on any class.

Frenk.5917:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Celestial necros counter d/d eles (constant boon removal, transferring burns). Condi rangers, condi mesmers and condi engis are all capable of killing d/d eles on point, though those are hardly meta.

Condi rangers and condi engis can hardly sustain a 1v1 vs an elementalist, let alone hardcountering them on point. Condis in general CAN kill an elementalist, but I definately wouldn’t call these 2 classes “hardcounters of D/D ele”.

When I posted this response, the question was ‘who can kill a d/d ele on point’, nothing about hard countering. The OP obviously changed his question because he’s a child who didn’t get what he wanted and therefore did the childish thing and pretended that the question was different to make us all look like fools.

That being said, a good condi mesmer certainly hard counters d/d ele (unless the ele runs ds, but 99.9% of eles don’t).

Hi Dahkeus,

For sure, I don’t disagree with what you said. I know the skill levels in tourney tiers are exponentially closer/tighter than the ones I’m accustomed to. Aside from that I bet they also know each other’s personal play style.

What goes on in the highest tiers provide the most accurate measurement of a spec’s potential, at least the ones that are used most often.

My comment was based on my experience in the average person’s tier because it’s what I can relate to. I know people like to reference what goes on the highest tiers as their own to make a point and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just something I don’t do.

I also like to reference what goes on in my tier due to the diverse and effective builds that thrive there yet unrepresented in the highest tiers

Cele necro hard counters anyone who even dares touch condi damage stats so there’s a problem in that of itself.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Everything depends on your player’s fingers & hands.

There is no perfect counter.

Good player will always win no matter what, on any class.

Not true at all.
Ele hard counters Guards more so than any class in the game. An excellent Guard will never beat a good Ele. Enter dueling rooms and try for yourself.

Guards can’t hard counter Thieves – unless you take pushing them off point as a counter. They’ll otherwise keep stealthing and kiting until they win.

Mesmers have always been one of the better 1v1 classes in the game. They’re only viable in tpvp now because thieves no longer hard counter them as easily.

Haven’t we recently seen Helseth and Noscoc defeat D/D Cele on point?

Where I play in kitten tier I’m able to 1v1 them on cele/engi. Most of my other classes get stomped in low level though.

Dristig.9678:

Haven’t we recently seen Helseth and Noscoc defeat D/D Cele on point?

Where I play in kitten tier I’m able to 1v1 them on cele/engi. Most of my other classes get stomped in low level though.

Nos destroyed the ele from Radioactive yesterday.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Celestial necros counter d/d eles (constant boon removal, transferring burns). Condi rangers, condi mesmers and condi engis are all capable of killing d/d eles on point, though those are hardly meta.

How do condi rangers conter d/d ele? That is the hardest match up for me when I play condi ranger.

Hammerguard.9834:

Cele necro hard counters anyone who even dares touch condi damage stats so there’s a problem in that of itself.

Why? Necro was always strong against condi specs. You can’t expect to win against anything on any build. At least you can easily disengage from a signet necro. Learn to rotate.

I’ve seen lots of necros, few rangers, guards, few wars, and lots of mesmers counter d/d cele ele. Your argument of no but an ele that is super skilled ! Well ok, then a necro that is super skilled !!

They have plenty of counters. Skill doesn’t enter into something like this. You can’t say gimme a build that will face roll a top level player… a top level player can play the weakest build out there and still do well.

Yasha.5963:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Celestial necros counter d/d eles (constant boon removal, transferring burns). Condi rangers, condi mesmers and condi engis are all capable of killing d/d eles on point, though those are hardly meta.

How do condi rangers conter d/d ele? That is the hardest match up for me when I play condi ranger.

Off topic but d/d ele is one of my hardest matchups for me too when I play condi ranger/condi trapper. You can bait water attunement and beat the unskilled ones that way, but in general they have more cleansing, more sustain and even similar condi compared to ranger.

Yasha.5963:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Celestial necros counter d/d eles (constant boon removal, transferring burns). Condi rangers, condi mesmers and condi engis are all capable of killing d/d eles on point, though those are hardly meta.

How do condi rangers conter d/d ele? That is the hardest match up for me when I play condi ranger.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

When I posted this response, the question was ‘who can kill a d/d ele on point’, nothing about hard countering.

Yes, Celestial Signet with some LF stacked is probably the answer.

Does it hard-counter the Ele? It depends on Ele. Most are mediocre, just spamming their rotation (no wonder, as it works). Those can be nearly insta-stomped.

The thing with fighting D/D Ele is landing couple important transfers+boon corrupts in quick succession after swapping out of the water.

There are situations when your corrupts are just a kitten and RNG doesn’t want to corrupt mightstacks. Or your important skill gets Blinded from Blinding Ashes proc. Then you have competent D/D Celementalists who are just pretty good. I’ve dueled a few on EU as Celestial Signet(which is not one of my main builds however) and some were often able to stale for a long time.

But it often boils down to a simple truth: Celestial Signet has major advantage, but just the fact that you’ve copied the build from the web doesn’t make you a hard-counter to anything.

Rym.1469:

But it often boils down to a simple truth: Celestial Signet has major advantage, but just the fact that you’ve copied the build from the web doesn’t make you a hard-counter to anything.

This message was brought to you by the Church of Rym.

Velimere.7685:

Rym.1469:

But it often boils down to a simple truth: Celestial Signet has major advantage, but just the fact that you’ve copied the build from the web doesn’t make you a hard-counter to anything.

This message was brought to you by the Church of Rym.

Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Rym R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn

Weren’t Noscoc/Phanta duels like 50/50 ? “Hard counter” seems far fetched.

Jasher.6580:

Velimere.7685:

Celestial Signet Necromancer hard-counters Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

He doesn’t want to hear that.

prove it: get a good cele necro and go 1v1 with a good d/d cele ele on your point…kill him while point is still yours, do it at least 3 times out of 5 (To prove it’s a real hardcounter…even if a real hardcounter would be 5 out of 5) upload it on youtube and post link here.

Pretty easy and you would definately prove your point

Otherwise it’s just worthless forum spam

This obviously goes for everyone saying i’m just whining with no point…i’m just waiting for your links now

And remember i’m talking about esl level (As i already said) so that should be a top nec vs a top cele d/d, cause atm (In EU) i didn’t see anyone not even trying to 1v1 a cele d/d on his point on purpose (Except for helseth goin yolomode)…i don’t care about unranked, ranked or whatever…it’s a real question to find something that can hardcounter a high tier d/d crossing to close at start without having to 2v1 him

abc.5790:

Archaon.9524:

abc.5790:

Hi Archaon,

Warriors do well vs eles, both pre and post patch. Signet necro counters ele but an aware ele would simply go back and forth on the point and never let the necro down them.
For certain, warriors do well against eles.

ask rom about his duels with kervv too see if war has any chance against cele d/d then come back…if i say that war has no way to kill a good ele it’s because i know it, and it’s widely proven (And not at random unranked levels…i’m not talking about casual pvp here)

I can’t speak for rom and kervv because they belong to the tournament tier. The gameplay there is beyond my ability so I never compare my capabilities to theirs. Only queue unranked when trying out a build but I usually play solo, 2 or 3 man pre on ranked.

i speak exactly for rom and kervv (And i was already talking with rom bout cele d/d, rampage nerf and some other stuff right before he tried to duel him) cause, as i already said multiple times, i’m talking about top level on point duel not some hotjoin bs…i can already kill 90% of unranked/ranked random d/d eles with gs war, problem is that won’t happen on a real 1v1 with real players, vs kervv, denshee and so on gs war would just be a suicide…i’m not asking how to hardcounter a bad ele i’m asking how to hardcounter an ele played at full potential with another spec played at its best

if you are a top tier player and someone leaves a d/d ele home, would you not want to be at another point getting a numbers advantage.

Archaon.9524:

Jasher.6580:

Velimere.7685:

Celestial Signet Necromancer hard-counters Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

He doesn’t want to hear that.

prove it: get a good cele necro and go 1v1 with a good d/d cele ele on your point…kill him while point is still yours, do it at least 3 times out of 5 (To prove it’s a real hardcounter…even if a real hardcounter would be 5 out of 5) upload it on youtube and post link here.

Pretty easy and you would definately prove your point

Otherwise it’s just worthless forum spam

This obviously goes for everyone saying i’m just whining with no point…i’m just waiting for your links now

And remember i’m talking about esl level (As i already said) so that should be a top nec vs a top cele d/d, cause atm (In EU) i didn’t see anyone not even trying to 1v1 a cele d/d on his point on purpose (Except for helseth goin yolomode)…i don’t care about unranked, ranked or whatever…it’s a real question to find something that can hardcounter a high tier d/d crossing to close at start without having to 2v1 him

Rym who plays Necro just told you that Celestial Signet has major advantage. What more do you want?

You people keep saying “oh cele necro destroys d/d ele in 1v1s”

But this is what you people are forgetting, Cele necro can’t escape a gank without Plague form and D/D ele has easy mode mobility.

Cele necro is easy to gank, it can definitely take around 10 seconds max in a top tier game if the Cele necro doesn’t have plague form up. D/D ele doesn’t need fiery greatsword to escape a gank and they have easy mode evade spams on top of their escapes and they can handle a 1v2 better.

TL;DR D/D ele still deserves to get nerfed, specificially their damage with all that easy mode tankiness and sustain that they already have.

Tala.7638:

if you are a top tier player and someone leaves a d/d ele home, would you not want to be at another point getting a numbers advantage.

not home, crossing to your close….and you know, you can’t just leave close, i don’t give a crap to their close…they could even leave 3 ppl there at start and you just go close and mid, but when someone crosses to your close and there’s basically nothing that can counter him 1v1 on your point that’s a problem…and also a pretty big one

(Pretty much the same that used to happen more than 1 year ago with decap engis…but that crap didn’t last nearly as long as cele d/d meta)

Sad truth is that, right now, the only solution to teams running eles is to run eles too…and this is not what i call balance, they changed traits, megapatches, buckloads of shiny things, hot coming….and we’re still chained into this crap since celestial amulet came out…any other celestial spec from previous meta got less effective after patch (Shoutbow is not even viable anymore and that was the only spec that could somehow manage cele dds) but ele is still the same…well even stronger actually

Last fix they even nerfed mesmer’s damage (And it was right) that was the only counter to them without even touching d/d or noticing that last esls ended up (From semifinals) with a total of 8 eles out of 20 players…i mean, at this point i don’t even know if they watch some go4 sometimes or they just randomly “balance” stuff with totally no clue

And ofc still no answers from devs whatsoever, not even the usual “We’re looking into it”
Come on, last thing thay said was that they were going to nerf evasive arcana…and they didn’t lmao

BlackTruth.6813:

You people keep saying “oh cele necro destroys d/d ele in 1v1s”

But this is what you people are forgetting, Cele necro can’t escape a gank without Plague form and D/D ele has easy mode mobility.

Cele necro is easy to gank, it can definitely take around 10 seconds max in a top tier game if the Cele necro doesn’t have plague form up. D/D ele doesn’t need fiery greatsword to escape a gank and they have easy mode evade spams on top of their escapes and they can handle a 1v2 better.

TL;DR D/D ele still deserves to get nerfed, specificially their damage with all that easy mode tankiness and sustain that they already have.

Okay, Elementalists need to get nerfed regardless. Cool. Now let’s get back to the OP’s original question… and the answer to the question is that Celestial Signet Neco can SAFELY 1v1 a Cele d/d Ele on point without losing it.

That’s all everyone has been trying to say to the OP. But he’s not hearing it.

Jasher.6580:

BlackTruth.6813:

You people keep saying “oh cele necro destroys d/d ele in 1v1s”

But this is what you people are forgetting, Cele necro can’t escape a gank without Plague form and D/D ele has easy mode mobility.

Cele necro is easy to gank, it can definitely take around 10 seconds max in a top tier game if the Cele necro doesn’t have plague form up. D/D ele doesn’t need fiery greatsword to escape a gank and they have easy mode evade spams on top of their escapes and they can handle a 1v2 better.

TL;DR D/D ele still deserves to get nerfed, specificially their damage with all that easy mode tankiness and sustain that they already have.

Okay, Elementalists need to get nerfed regardless. Cool. Now let’s get back to the OP’s original question… and the answer to the question is that Celestial Signet Neco can SAFELY 1v1 a Cele d/d Ele on point without losing it.

That’s all everyone has been trying to say to the OP. But he’s not hearing it.

Necro can’t reliably counter a spec not with a mechanic like Death Shroud you need an ideal scenario but it is possible.

Archaon.9524:

Iavra.8510:

Not even that, since a D/D ele can probably sustain 2 D/D eles for as long as he wants.

the used to call it…balance…

First completely untrue thing you have said so far, and even if it was true the point would remain in your favor so you won.

Short Answer is have your own D/D ele permanently stall the enemy ele while the point remains in your favor, or get a good cele necromancer to 1v1 the d/d ele.

Archaon.9524:

Sifu.9745:

What about a Thief? or condi Warrior?

thief is gonna do nothing, ele is gonna cap and outheal everything while thief needs to constantly disengage as soon as he gets hit by some random condispam

and war lol…let’s say that atm going 1v1 with a cele d/d while on war (Any spec) is the fastest way to suicide after jumping down on skyhammer since the only war spec that could fight a cele d/d ele was shoutbow and they nerfed it to the ground (While ele got even stronger after patch…ofc)

Hey that’s something that can win 1v1 with cele d/d…nerf it asap and buff ele

I know it sounds pretty reterded but this is exactly what they did

Shout bow was not nerfed to the ground, there is a very succesful shoutbow build using a settlers amulet.

Even if celestial sig may beat ele, it would take way too long to be considered worthwhile in a real game where players can just rotate one dps into the fight. IMO, I would much rather have an ele than a necro on a team based solely on mobility and team support.

Aeroxe.8140:

Even if celestial sig may beat ele, it would take way too long to be considered worthwhile in a real game where players can just rotate one dps into the fight. IMO, I would much rather have an ele than a necro on a team based solely on mobility and team support.

Define way too long and worthwhile. The scenario he is painting is this.

At the start of the match a random class takes home point and caps it. An Ele shows up right after to force a decap on the random class.

The OP is insinuating that every class will always lose to a good Elementalist in that specific scenario guaranteeing side caps at the start of the match at the very least.

Nevertheless, I realized soon-after that this was simply a thinly veiled nerf Elementalist thread, so I told him to carry on.

I don’t even have an Elementalist on my account. I was messing around with a level 1 Ele for a couple weeks recently but I deleted after I felt like I got a decent handle on how the class worked.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Yasha.5963:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Celestial necros counter d/d eles (constant boon removal, transferring burns). Condi rangers, condi mesmers and condi engis are all capable of killing d/d eles on point, though those are hardly meta.

How do condi rangers conter d/d ele? That is the hardest match up for me when I play condi ranger.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

When I posted this response, the question was ‘who can kill a d/d ele on point’, nothing about hard countering.

I can’t kill a d/d ele on a point or anywhere else on my condi/trap ranger build (unless that ele is very, very bad or hasn’t traited properly).

They are the one build that can chase me down and kill me consistently; if its 1vs1 I just run most of the time (I have to run well in advance because they also have incredible mobility and I can’t get away if they decide to chase).

So again please share how a condi/trap ranger can kill these d/d eles on point? If you can do it please teach us how, I am quite sick of being chased around by d/d eles who I don’t stand any chance against.

There’s no such thing as being able to “safely” fight, or at least there shouldn’t be.

That being said, I have a fair shot against d/d Elementalist on condi shatter Mesmer.

A d/d ele will go down if you can sustain conditions or stun them. They are dependent on a rotation. Break the rotation, break the ele.

Jasher.6580:

Aeroxe.8140:

Even if celestial sig may beat ele, it would take way too long to be considered worthwhile in a real game where players can just rotate one dps into the fight. IMO, I would much rather have an ele than a necro on a team based solely on mobility and team support.

Define way too long and worthwhile. The scenario he is painting is this.

At the start of the match a random class takes home point and caps it. An Ele shows up right after to force a decap on the random class.

The OP is insinuating that every class will always lose to a good Elementalist in that specific scenario guaranteeing side caps at the start of the match at the very least.

Nevertheless, I realized soon-after that this was simply a thinly veiled nerf Elementalist thread, so I told him to carry on.

I don’t even have an Elementalist on my account. I was messing around with a level 1 Ele for a couple weeks recently but I deleted after I felt like I got a decent handle on how the class worked.

he doesn’t need to fullcap..he just needs to force the guy on close offpoint and decap it without any chance for the close guy to recap it, he probably won’t have enough time to fullcap alone since tf on mid would be over and then it’s gonna be a 2v1 (In favour of the guy on close or the ele depending on how midfight ended) but until then they already have one point while you just have a troll stalling your point neutral

I’ve never said ele is gonna fullcap your close i just said he’s gonna cross, force the guy on close offpoint (Since it’s just kite or die) decapping it and holding it neutral while all you can do it’s just jumping in and out preventing fullcap

So i’m just looking for a spec that, on start, can prevent this ele from decapping close forcing HIM to disengage without losing close and without having to 2v1 in order to kill him (And more likely he’s not gonna die anyway since he would still be able to disengage most 1v2s)

@Ithilwen.1529 There are matchups that you can consider safe and that can usually keep the point like condi nec vs engi (Maybe he’s gonna get decapped before killing him tho but he’s definately gonna make the engi to get the crap out of there or die miserably), offguard vs thief, thief vs mesmer, engi vs thief, burn guard vs engi, cond ranger vs engi, pretty much anything vs war (Without rampage) and many more..plenty of those hardcounters

Problem is that i still miss the evidence of x vs ele being a safe matchup, i know you said celestial nec but “maybe” doesn’t mean safe…even a lucky thief would “maybe” kill a d/d ele if he plays perfectly, has a ton of luck and ele messes up, but “ideal scenario” is far from being “safe”

Velimere.7685:

You read it here first, folks! It’s not a hard counter unless it completely and instantaneously explodes the other class outright, so even Meditation Guardians aren’t really hard counters to Dagger/Pistol Thieves because said Thieves can just run away after the initial burst!

Don’t we just make so much progress and totally not make ourselves look silly when we try and conveniently define terms otherwise of how they’ve already been established? /s

Velimere.7685:

Velimere.7685:

You read it here first, folks! It’s not a hard counter unless it completely and instantaneously explodes the other class outright, so even Meditation Guardians aren’t really hard counters to Dagger/Pistol Thieves because said Thieves can just run away after the initial burst!

Don’t we just make so much progress and totally not make ourselves look silly when we try and conveniently define terms otherwise of how they’ve already been established? /s

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

I’m glad you understand now, Lad. All’s that’s left is for you to understand that Celestial Signet Necromancer is a hard counter to Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

That’s great, haha. So if y= d/d ele, x = pretty much everything else?

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

I’m glad you understand now, Lad. All’s that’s left is for you to understand that Celestial Signet Necromancer is a hard counter to Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

as i already said about it…upload a best of 5 1v1s on point with celestial nec winning 3 times(At least…should be 5 if nec doesn’t mess up but 3 is kinda enough) without getting decapped

give me link and my quest would be over

sephiroth.4217:

In my experience with the classes I’ve played.

Celestial Signant necro.
Condition boon conversion necro.
Celestial Trap Ranger.
Hammer mace/shield warrior.
Celestial burn/bunker guardian.
Another Celestial burn Ele
Condition Shatter Mesmer with Arcane Thievery
Celestial illusionist Mesmer
Power Shatter Mesmer with the right positioning.

I honestly don’t understand why people have so much trouble with fighting D/D eles… I know when I play meta builds or thief I have some issues but I don’t enjoy meta builds unless I’m working out a way to devise a build that counters it.

Condition Shatter Mesmer with Arcane Thievery – You must be joking?
Celestial illusionist Mesmer – after condition death trait removal, definitely no!
Celestial Trap Ranger – how? Like just how?
Hammer mace/shield warrior – doesnt even make sense some of these!
Power Shatter Mesmer with the right positioning – “with the right positioning” kek.

I think you you need to rethink a few things…

Sadrien.3470:

Archaon.9524:

Sifu.9745:

What about a Thief? or condi Warrior?

thief is gonna do nothing, ele is gonna cap and outheal everything while thief needs to constantly disengage as soon as he gets hit by some random condispam

and war lol…let’s say that atm going 1v1 with a cele d/d while on war (Any spec) is the fastest way to suicide after jumping down on skyhammer since the only war spec that could fight a cele d/d ele was shoutbow and they nerfed it to the ground (While ele got even stronger after patch…ofc)

Hey that’s something that can win 1v1 with cele d/d…nerf it asap and buff ele

I know it sounds pretty reterded but this is exactly what they did

Shout bow was not nerfed to the ground, there is a very succesful shoutbow build using a settlers amulet.

Siiiigh… All that build is doing is trying to emulate ele levels of burning abuse and sustain. Its decent in teamfight scenarios but in all other respects its bad.

Yasha.5963:

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

That’s great, haha. So if y= d/d ele, x = pretty much everything else?

atm yeah….pretty much

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

Velimere.7685:

Archaon.9524:

harcounter, for those who apparently can’t read or understand means “Forcing someone to disengage 1v1 or die on point with basically no chances for the other guy to win considering same skill level”

got it now? i can also make a simple drawing if needed…sorry if i didn’t explain some basic term, i forgot i was writing on forums….my bad

That’s great and all, Lad, but the rest of us were talking about a hard counter. Feel free to go back to your simple drawings now.

Just for you man…hope it helps

I’m glad you understand now, Lad. All’s that’s left is for you to understand that Celestial Signet Necromancer is a hard counter to Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

as i already said about it…upload a best of 5 1v1s on point with celestial nec winning 3 times(At least…should be 5 if nec doesn’t mess up but 3 is kinda enough) without getting decapped

give me link and my quest would be over

That’s not going to do anything because all you’re going to say is the the Ele was bad, it was or rigged and/or say he was having an off day. You already have your mind made up. Psychology 101.

From my POV I think cele signet necro has great sustain and can stay on point with a d/d ele but it can’t really force the ele to rotate because it doesn’t have the power necessary to stop the ele from healing itself and doesn’t have enough chills or cripples to catch the ele when he retreats to heal himself this is why i assume you don’t count it as a hard counter. I’ve tried A/F-Staff Spectral Power build that is pretty effective. Spite/Curse/SR top to bottom 1-1-2/2-2-1/2-1-2 on A/F sigil of str/frailty and staff hydromancy/energy rune of str with marauder amulet. Consume Conditions, spectral wall, spectral walk, spectral armor, lich form. Try it out and see if its what your looking for but let me warn you its pretty hard to just pick up and dominate because the skills are not very easy to land (weapon set) so you going to have to get used to it a bit.

I play ele and necro is the worst. Also condi mesmer is a pain. All condi builds are hard to fight. Agressive builds (mostly zerker) especially going in close combat die.
The best way to nerf ele is to break the cantrip/water relation by removing regeneration from soothing disruption. That burning got to much stacking(stacks) on some skills is another story, that impacts eles power.

Nothing hardcounter ele but cele necro is a soft counter. Does everything in the game need a hardcounter?

Exactly, hard counters shouldn’t exist. It’s just not skill based nor fun. The rock/paper/scissor balance isn’t even good for monkeys.

Ara.4569:

Exactly, hard counters shouldn’t exist. It’s just not skill based nor fun. The rock/paper/scissor balance isn’t even good for monkeys.

Before June 23rd patch, thief was a hard counter to all types of Mesmer builds. Anet let it happen, so why not now?