Guild Wars 2

JTGuevara.9018:

So basically, a business has no obligation to serve the public….got it.

A nightclub is open to the public for free. The club also has VIP membership that you pay for. VIP members get access to an exclusive section and bottle service in addition to what the public gets. VIP is advertised as a bonus so the public can further enjoy the club experience.

However, unbeknownst to the public, VIP members also get “special privileges” (armed bodyguards). Armed bodyguards harass, beat up and intimidate the other club goers who didn’t pay and they don’t like. The club owners, of course, either look the other way or struggle to keep control of the establishment. I say look the other way because this is self-perpetuating since this gets the public to pay to get SOME enjoyment and protection.

According to you, the club has no obligation what-so-ever to the people who are beat up, bloody and bruised.

…uh-huh..

An even playing field is the LEAST they can do. That OR separate f2p players and b2p players.

Your nightclub analogy is silly. A club obviously has a duty to refrain from physically assaulting people on its property, just like any other establishment. A.net is not physically beating you, and to pretend like losing in PvP is the same as being physically assaulted is ridiculous.

The better analogy would be buying business class seats on an airplane. The people who paid extra get better seats, better food, and access to more areas of the plane (e.g. the business class lounge and nicer bathrooms). The people who didn’t pay just get to fly on the plane.

What you’re really complaining about is that you don’t have it as nice as the people who paid money, which seems kind of silly. You’re not entitled to get the same service for free. That’s true of virtually any business, and generally true of life as well.

It’d be more productive to talk about whether the expansion is reasonably priced. The reason why people complain about true “P2W” (like paying $10 just to get a super-strong sword) is that you’re not really getting any content or new gameplay out of it; the $10 megasword is just a transparent ploy to extort money. I personally think all the content that has come out of HoT was well worth the price of a meal or two, but that’s obviously for each person to decide.

Huh… I really haven’t played the game much since HoT was released. One-off occasions the past year. Pvp most of those times. I skimmed the thread so someone might’ve already suggested this, but I really did wish Anet had let the “legacy” players who bought the main game have access to the DLC class and specializations, or at least just the specializations for the core classes, for pvp. It seems like the vast majority of “legacy” players bought HoT though, so I guess it’d just be pandering to a very small minority…

ResJudicator.7916:

JTGuevara.9018:

So basically, a business has no obligation to serve the public….got it.

A nightclub is open to the public for free. The club also has VIP membership that you pay for. VIP members get access to an exclusive section and bottle service in addition to what the public gets. VIP is advertised as a bonus so the public can further enjoy the club experience.

However, unbeknownst to the public, VIP members also get “special privileges” (armed bodyguards). Armed bodyguards harass, beat up and intimidate the other club goers who didn’t pay and they don’t like. The club owners, of course, either look the other way or struggle to keep control of the establishment. I say look the other way because this is self-perpetuating since this gets the public to pay to get SOME enjoyment and protection.

According to you, the club has no obligation what-so-ever to the people who are beat up, bloody and bruised.

…uh-huh..

An even playing field is the LEAST they can do. That OR separate f2p players and b2p players.

Your nightclub analogy is silly. A club obviously has a duty to refrain from physically assaulting people on its property, just like any other establishment. A.net is not physically beating you, and to pretend like losing in PvP is the same as being physically assaulted is ridiculous.

The better analogy would be buying business class seats on an airplane. The people who paid extra get better seats, better food, and access to more areas of the plane (e.g. the business class lounge and nicer bathrooms). The people who didn’t pay just get to fly on the plane.

What you’re really complaining about is that you don’t have it as nice as the people who paid money, which seems kind of silly. You’re not entitled to get the same service for free. That’s true of virtually any business, and generally true of life as well.

It’d be more productive to talk about whether the expansion is reasonably priced. The reason why people complain about true “P2W” (like paying $10 just to get a super-strong sword) is that you’re not really getting any content or new gameplay out of it; the $10 megasword is just a transparent ploy to extort money. I personally think all the content that has come out of HoT was well worth the price of a meal or two, but that’s obviously for each person to decide.

The entire point of the nightclub analogy is that a business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service.

Your airplane analogy falls apart since there are no special privileges the business class passengers have that compromises the service of the passengers who didn’t pay. Here I’ll add to it!

“I’m not angry that the business class passengers have it good, with all that food and entertainment! Good for them! I’m angry that they’re throwing garbage down the chutes that were placed right above us! There are rats here too!”

Jourdelune.7456:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Jourdelune.7456:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Jay.3409:

agreed. elite spec should be free in instanced pvp like arenas.. ( not so much with wvw as gear matters there )

i bought gw2 before hot, so spending another $50 just for elite spec dont seem worth it tbh..

Then don’t buy it.

Everyone if failing to note one important thing, ANet needs to keep the lights on.

Giving P4F players the Elite specs takes away a reason to buy the game. You know, the thing that funds ANet, you know money, cold hard cash. Now currently P4F players are leaching(for lack of a better word) of others who have stomped up the money to support the game. So the should have every advantage available to them over a P4F player.

I like many others have paid for the game, and HoT, bought gems, can someone tell me why P4F players should get the same things? And no because they are at a disadvantage is not a good reason, If they enjoy the game that much, that they feel they are missing out, buy the game. It’s not a lot of money. it’s £30 on amazon in the UK. That’s a take away, a trip to the movies or a meal in a restaurant.

People who play the game for free don’t deserve anything. They should be grateful they get to demo the game, then buy it later and not have to start over.

Look at it this way, If you are a 100% PvP player, and when the next Xpac came out if ANet said everyone gets the elite specs for free, then anyone who is a 100% PvP player would not buy the next Xpac, I mean why would you? ANet needs a hook for all game modes to get you to buy the next Xpac. They need the money, with out it the game shuts down.

Look for bold.

There is less than 2000 spvp only players. They still pay for GEM with Money.

The suggestion made, still ask spvp players to pay GEM to unlock specialization.

If that would been the case, the 50 000 new pvp players that left on HoT, would paid GEM / Money to unlock that…

So, spvp players would bring more money than Buy to Play one (90$ to unlock all, versus 50$ to buy to play).

Who in the blue hell would pay $90 to unlock the elite specs when you can buy all the game for $50? I’m sorry but you are talking crazy.

Please, stop disrespecting players because they don’t think like you.

Most F2P players, will unlock stuff they want over time. And usually they will not unlock all but simply once or twice per year.

I understand we are B2P players, fine… but please try to understand the people that do F2P and why they do it.

Why? They are most likely are 100x populous than B2P one.

Compare the little millions box sales of anet to the 80 millions of Lol (only that game), should be enough for you to understand.

I’m not disrespecting anyone.

LoL and GW2 are 2 completely different games, LoL is made to work the way it works. GW2 is not. it’s made to work with buy to play, and gem store. That is it. I’m sorry but I really don’t see people spending $90 over $50. If they want to play the game with everything, then they will pay the $50, you can get it cheaper than that as well. You are confusing the Play 4 Free model as a F2P game. It’s not intended to be that way. You are supposed to try the game out. and if you like it, Buy the game to get all the locked away stuff.

As for F2P, I completely understand why people go and play F2P games. they might like the game type, or what the game is based on, but don’t feel the game is good enough for them to spend money on. Or they might just not have the money to buy every new game they like. I under stand this. But your “idea” is not a good one. Asking people to pay more and get less is not a good idea.

Think about it this way. say someone spends, over time, the full $90. they are still worse off than if they spent $50 for the Box game, as they do not have access to the rest of the game, but they have the Elite specs, and that’s it, I can really see people being happy with that………………………

JTGuevara.9018:

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

ResJudicator.7916:

This thread is ridiculous. A.net is a business. They need to make money. A.net does not have any obligation — moral, legal, or otherwise — to give free trial players an equal playing field. It doesn’t matter whether you want to classify it as P2W, B2P, or whatever. The fact remains the same: A.net doesn’t owe you, the free trial player, an even playing field.

The expansion is dirt cheap and reasonably priced relative to other MMO expansions. In the time you’ve spent complaining about the free trial, you could have earned enough money to buy the expansion.

So basically, a business has no obligation to serve the public….got it.

A nightclub is open to the public for free. The club also has VIP membership that you pay for. VIP members get access to an exclusive section and bottle service in addition to what the public gets. VIP is advertised as a bonus so the public can further enjoy the club experience.

However, unbeknownst to the public, VIP members also get “special privileges” (armed bodyguards). Armed bodyguards harass, beat up and intimidate the other club goers who didn’t pay and they don’t like. The club owners, of course, either look the other way or struggle to keep control of the establishment. I say look the other way because this is self-perpetuating since this gets the public to pay to get SOME enjoyment and protection.

According to you, the club has no obligation what-so-ever to the people who are beat up, bloody and bruised.

…uh-huh..

An even playing field is the LEAST they can do. That OR separate f2p players and b2p players.

Harrassment, seperation and control isn’t the argument here. The ViP membership is still “buy to own”.

I never said it was.

The argument here was whether Anet as a business should be obligated to serve f2p players.

ANet is not obligated to serve anyone. Go read the ToS. We don’t even own the game, we have paid to access the game, and they can take away that access at any time for any reason. It is the norm for any online game. The same as in the ToS it says that if ANet wanted to they could add a subscription to play the game. It was in the ToS of GW1 too. So really ANet can do what they want, as long as it is with in the ToS that we the players have agreed to by playing the game. The only thing ANet has to do, it what ever they feel will make the they most money, for the lest amount of expenditure, as it is with every business in the world.

xKratos.4758:

All of you kids who said GW2 is P2W. Duel one of my boys for 500g. They will use vanilla specs and you can use the “OP P2W specs” and they will still farm all of you kids. All you kids whining about GW2 P2W just need to “git gud” 4Head

And I’m serious, I’ll pay 500g if you can beat one of my boys using vanilla specs. Only catch is you better pay me 500g if you got whoop by them. Don’t ditch out like that kid who think he can 1v1 me where I stream myself whooping him 20 times in a row and he didn’t pay.

Exceptions are the people I know that are decent, otherwise if you’re a random kittentter I’m 110% positive my boys can farm your kitten on vanilla specs.

Well… At equal skills level (look for bold), Vanilla build are less powerful than Hot Build.

You just said it yourself with the bold, I did on your comment.

JTGuevara.9018:

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

ResJudicator.7916:

This thread is ridiculous. A.net is a business. They need to make money. A.net does not have any obligation — moral, legal, or otherwise — to give free trial players an equal playing field. It doesn’t matter whether you want to classify it as P2W, B2P, or whatever. The fact remains the same: A.net doesn’t owe you, the free trial player, an even playing field.

The expansion is dirt cheap and reasonably priced relative to other MMO expansions. In the time you’ve spent complaining about the free trial, you could have earned enough money to buy the expansion.

So basically, a business has no obligation to serve the public….got it.

A nightclub is open to the public for free. The club also has VIP membership that you pay for. VIP members get access to an exclusive section and bottle service in addition to what the public gets. VIP is advertised as a bonus so the public can further enjoy the club experience.

However, unbeknownst to the public, VIP members also get “special privileges” (armed bodyguards). Armed bodyguards harass, beat up and intimidate the other club goers who didn’t pay and they don’t like. The club owners, of course, either look the other way or struggle to keep control of the establishment. I say look the other way because this is self-perpetuating since this gets the public to pay to get SOME enjoyment and protection.

According to you, the club has no obligation what-so-ever to the people who are beat up, bloody and bruised.

…uh-huh..

An even playing field is the LEAST they can do. That OR separate f2p players and b2p players.

Harrassment, seperation and control isn’t the argument here. The ViP membership is still “buy to own”.

I never said it was.

The argument here was whether Anet as a business should be obligated to serve f2p players.

Since Anet have publicly declared Gw2 as a F2P game, they are obligated to serve F2P players.

Anet decide it would be good to have F2P into their model.

It’s Anet decision to go on that path. So they just need to make it better.

They only need to removed the P2W fallacities in offering unlockabled spvp elite classe for gems/gold.

@Salazin

SalaZin.2509:

Huh… I really haven’t played the game much since HoT was released. One-off occasions the past year. Pvp most of those times. I skimmed the thread so someone might’ve already suggested this, but I really did wish Anet had let the “legacy” players who bought the main game have access to the DLC class and specializations, or at least just the specializations for the core classes, for pvp. It seems like the vast majority of “legacy” players bought HoT though, so I guess it’d just be pandering to a very small minority…

A small minority?

According to those speculations:

“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ncsoft-s-earnings-4Q-2015/page/3#post6024967”

HOT would had sold around 300,000 boxes in Q4 2015.

Those numbers show that only a minority (approx 5% over 7 millions account) have upgrade to B2W spvp.

JTGuevara.9018:

The entire point of the nightclub analogy is that a business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service.

Your airplane analogy falls apart since there are no special privileges the business class passengers have that compromises the service of the passengers who didn’t pay. Here I’ll add to it!

“I’m not angry that the business class passengers have it good, with all that food and entertainment! Good for them! I’m angry that they’re throwing garbage down the chutes that were placed right above us! There are rats here too!”

Also, you keep trying to equate “losing in pvp to an elite spec” to being physically assaulted or abused by a company. Come on, that’s just ridiculous. Every company has an obligation to not literally attack you. That doesn’t mean that they also have an obligation to provide you with the same level of service.

I don’t think you’ve thought through either of the analogies enough, unfortunately. Just off the top of my head, here’s a couple things business class passengers get to the detriment of regular passengers:
- They get priority on carry-on baggage space, which means sometimes a regular-class passenger has to check in his baggage because there isn’t enough space left.
- They get priority seating, which means the regular-class passenger has to wait in line longer.
- They get exclusive access to 1/3 to 1/2 of the bathrooms on the plane, and can also use the regular-class bathrooms, which means regular-class passengers have more crowded bathrooms and have to wait longer.
- They get to deplane earlier, and if they’re asleep, the staff will gently wake them up first, before any of the regular-passengers are allowed to exit. That’s why after the plane is done taxiing, the regular passengers have to sit around for another 10 minutes.

That’s way more “P2W” than GW2, since expansion owner’s don’t get priority on anything. They just get access to new content, which is kind of the point of an expansion pack. Some of the new content includes better specs, yes. But the fact that you’re losing to an elite spec in pvp is nowhere near the equivalent of being harmed or abused by A.net.

This thread is a month old but what the hell, heres a post.

Consider the following.

The game was originally B2P. It is now F2P.

The core specs have not generally been nerfed. The elite specs are one trait line variants of the core specs.

All core specs have at least one viable build that can contest with the game in general.

Core specs are susceptible to nerfing.

I’m not going to suggest you’re wrong or anything, but it seems kind of silly for complaints of “P2W!” to be spiraling out of the ether for months when the game being free in any aspect was due to Arenanet making the game free of their own initiative. It has hardly been crafted to allow paying players an advantage. Their sudden free access to the core game doesn’t suddenly invert the payment model.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This thread is a month old but what the hell, heres a post.

Consider the following.

The game was originally B2P. It is now F2P.

The core specs have not generally been nerfed. The elite specs are one trait line variants of the core specs.

All core specs have at least one viable build that can contest with the game in general.

Core specs are susceptible to nerfing.

I’m not going to suggest you’re wrong or anything, but it seems kind of silly for complaints of “P2W!” to be spiraling out of the ether for months when the game being free in any aspect was due to Arenanet making the game free of their own initiative. It has hardly been crafted to allow paying players an advantage. Their sudden free access to the core game doesn’t suddenly invert the payment model.

You are right for all other game mode.

But for spvp, what is actually wrong, is that all Builds from HoT > all Vanilla build at equal skill level.

This is a fact, that all spvp players could attest. So real, that people excuse this saying they need to sells boxes… but even with that, they don’t sell those boxes…

Like all other month old thread, it live because we have two “group” of players.

One that don’t want to acknowledge the P2W nature into SPVP the other that claim it is.

Obviously, only Buy to Play players can express themselves on the forum. If F2P would access forum, this thread would had been 100 page long with 98% of QQ and complains.
https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT

This is not where I stand (QQ and complains). I am here to give facts, numbers and acknowledge the problem to give it a Quick Solution that will help my beloved SPVP goes higher than what we have right now.

Thank you for your inputs.

Jourdelune.7456:

One that don’t want to acknowledge the P2W nature into SPVP the other that claim it is.

The fact of the matter is that Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is buy-to-play and doesn’t follow the pay-to-win model whatsoever.

If you hate this game so much for being buy-to-play then don’t buy it and don’t play it.

It’s as simple as that. Those of us who enjoy it will continue to do so.

Faux Play.6104:

I would classify it as Buy to Play. If it bothers you that much either get a job and buy the game or get better. Many people have demonstrated that you can get legendary playing a core class solo queue if it bothers you that much to spend money on a game.

If you go the F2P route, you get quite a lot compared to games like WOW, but you have much more options if you pay for HOT. The price is reasonable for the hours of entertainment you will get out of it.

I highly agree with you. ANet’s marketing other then the whole cheap ESL advertisement campaign in my opinion, is the best among all of the MMOs on the market atm. We don’t talk about ESL and GW2 in the same sentence seriously at all.

ResJudicator.7916:

JTGuevara.9018:

The entire point of the nightclub analogy is that a business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service.

Your airplane analogy falls apart since there are no special privileges the business class passengers have that compromises the service of the passengers who didn’t pay. Here I’ll add to it!

“I’m not angry that the business class passengers have it good, with all that food and entertainment! Good for them! I’m angry that they’re throwing garbage down the chutes that were placed right above us! There are rats here too!”

Also, you keep trying to equate “losing in pvp to an elite spec” to being physically assaulted or abused by a company. Come on, that’s just ridiculous. Every company has an obligation to not literally attack you. That doesn’t mean that they also have an obligation to provide you with the same level of service.

I don’t think you’ve thought through either of the analogies enough, unfortunately. Just off the top of my head, here’s a couple things business class passengers get to the detriment of regular passengers:
- They get priority on carry-on baggage space, which means sometimes a regular-class passenger has to check in his baggage because there isn’t enough space left.
- They get priority seating, which means the regular-class passenger has to wait in line longer.
- They get exclusive access to 1/3 to 1/2 of the bathrooms on the plane, and can also use the regular-class bathrooms, which means regular-class passengers have more crowded bathrooms and have to wait longer.
- They get to deplane earlier, and if they’re asleep, the staff will gently wake them up first, before any of the regular-passengers are allowed to exit. That’s why after the plane is done taxiing, the regular passengers have to sit around for another 10 minutes.

That’s way more “P2W” than GW2, since expansion owner’s don’t get priority on anything. They just get access to new content, which is kind of the point of an expansion pack. Some of the new content includes better specs, yes. But the fact that you’re losing to an elite spec in pvp is nowhere near the equivalent of being harmed or abused by A.net.

Of COURSE losing in pvp doesn’t equate to getting beaten up in a club. Again, you miss the point.

A business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service. There’s a difference between a paid service and a privilege. Privilege brings power and advantage over others.

Gw2 is free-to-play. In pvp, HoT players have power and advantage over f2p players due to elite specs. Sorry, but f2p players deserve at least a level playing field and I will not reconsider that position.

It seems to me that some you in these forums LIKE the current state of things. You like the elite specs and all the advantages that they offer. You deny that you have an advantage over other players because, “Hey! I paid for it!”

It’s this type of attitude that’s driving new players away. This is why pvp is the gutter.

This is my last word on this thread.

nerovergil.5408:

Advanced class is clearly stronger than vanilla class.

Just give that advantage at WVW.

We want balanced game in pvp..

If players like the games, they will throw u money. p2w never a good ideas.

So you do not want to pay for the expansion, but yet you want all of the players that did, to adjust after vanilla? The f2p version is not even vanilla because you do not even have the full core game. The f2p version is a extended trial, were you get a lot out from it. If you want to stay and play GW2 in the long run you will have to buy the expansions to stay competitive, because the f2p version have never been promised any updates, or anything that progress the core game further. And if you expect us to stay in the core game without progress then you will kill the game.

JTGuevara.9018:

ResJudicator.7916:

JTGuevara.9018:

The entire point of the nightclub analogy is that a business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service.

Your airplane analogy falls apart since there are no special privileges the business class passengers have that compromises the service of the passengers who didn’t pay. Here I’ll add to it!

“I’m not angry that the business class passengers have it good, with all that food and entertainment! Good for them! I’m angry that they’re throwing garbage down the chutes that were placed right above us! There are rats here too!”

Also, you keep trying to equate “losing in pvp to an elite spec” to being physically assaulted or abused by a company. Come on, that’s just ridiculous. Every company has an obligation to not literally attack you. That doesn’t mean that they also have an obligation to provide you with the same level of service.

I don’t think you’ve thought through either of the analogies enough, unfortunately. Just off the top of my head, here’s a couple things business class passengers get to the detriment of regular passengers:
- They get priority on carry-on baggage space, which means sometimes a regular-class passenger has to check in his baggage because there isn’t enough space left.
- They get priority seating, which means the regular-class passenger has to wait in line longer.
- They get exclusive access to 1/3 to 1/2 of the bathrooms on the plane, and can also use the regular-class bathrooms, which means regular-class passengers have more crowded bathrooms and have to wait longer.
- They get to deplane earlier, and if they’re asleep, the staff will gently wake them up first, before any of the regular-passengers are allowed to exit. That’s why after the plane is done taxiing, the regular passengers have to sit around for another 10 minutes.

That’s way more “P2W” than GW2, since expansion owner’s don’t get priority on anything. They just get access to new content, which is kind of the point of an expansion pack. Some of the new content includes better specs, yes. But the fact that you’re losing to an elite spec in pvp is nowhere near the equivalent of being harmed or abused by A.net.

Of COURSE losing in pvp doesn’t equate to getting beaten up in a club. Again, you miss the point.

A business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service. There’s a difference between a paid service and a privilege. Privilege brings power and advantage over others.

Gw2 is free-to-play. In pvp, HoT players have power and advantage over f2p players due to elite specs. Sorry, but f2p players deserve at least a level playing field and I will not reconsider that position.

If the company made promises when the f2p version came out that the core game will stay updated and as reachable for all in any part of the game, then yes you should expect that. How ever there never was such promise made, it was always said, you can play the core game for free. This means you will lack of what expansion comes with, that is what you choose when you pick f2p.

If you for example picked to play Rift when it went f2p they promised (back then) that everything that paying customers had would be available for the f2p players. Well except for this and that it was added after. But either way, there was a promise made, and i would have expected what you asked for if i had started to play the game then on a f2p version. A-Net never said anything of the sort. They never promised it, or indicated that the f2p version would include what Hot have. Nor did they ever say anything about compensation stat vice or any other way. They only promised a f2p core game and that is what you have to play around with.

Now imo i do belive that it would not be a bad thing to have a f2p que for those that wish to que for vanilla builds. Ofc not ranked, and also a choice and you can still pick if you want to que as normal. This is something that i could see as a option. But what you are asking for is just you consider the f2p core game being more then what it was said to be.

JTGuevara.9018:

Of COURSE losing in pvp doesn’t equate to getting beaten up in a club. Again, you miss the point.

A business should be held accountable not only to paying customers, but to ALL consumers that are being provided a free service. There’s a difference between a paid service and a privilege. Privilege brings power and advantage over others.

Gw2 is free-to-play. In pvp, HoT players have power and advantage over f2p players due to elite specs. Sorry, but f2p players deserve at least a level playing field and I will not reconsider that position.

I’ve answered your point at least three different ways by now, but I’ll try once more. Basically, you need to think harder about what “accountability” means. When A.net provides a free game (core GW2), it’s “accountable” in the sense that they should take basic precautions to avoid the product causing physical harm or damage. I.E., they’d be accountable if their game caused your computer to blow up. That’s your night club analogy.

That’s not the same thing as being “accountable” for creating an even playing field in PvP for core and elite specs. There’s is absolutely 0 obligation to do that. It doesn’t even fit within the actual definition of “accountable.”

Your attempt to differentiate between a “paid service” and a “privilege” is complete nonsense. Just go back to the airplane analogy. How is business class service not a “privilege”? You get the privilege of boarding before regular passengers (an advantage), you get the privilege of having priority for baggage storage space (an advantage), you get the privilege of deplaning first (another advantage).

At the end of the day, A.net absolutely does not have any obligation to give you an even playing field with those who paid for the expansion. The sooner you realize this the better you’ll do in life, because the same principle applies almost everywhere.

Whether or not elite specs should be balanced against core specs for the health of the game is another matter. I’m personally all for expanding build diversity and would love to have a more balanced game. But that’s not something I’m entitled to, and it has absolutely nothing to do with “accountability.”

JTGuevara.9018:

It seems to me that some you in these forums LIKE the current state of things. You like the elite specs and all the advantages that they offer. You deny that you have an advantage over other players because, “Hey! I paid for it!”

It’s this type of attitude that’s driving new players away. This is why pvp is the gutter.

This is my last word on this thread.

It’s not about liking the states of things, several of us in the thread don’t.
It’s not about liking Elite more, or Core more – to each his own.
Many of us agree that Elite > Core – that’s irrelevant.

It’s about the business model
You buy it once. You play it. You don’t spend a cent more.

“What you bought is better than what I bought 4 years ago!”

I guess that makes every expansion in the MMORPG genre B2W then.

Don’t twist the word buy to play. Its the same as pay to win. You buy (pay) hot, u get op specialization. no different, b2p = p2w

Now, yes gw2 is a business, dev need money.

But, there is tons of MMORPG, esport balanced moba (dota 2, lol, smite) out there, making gw2 p2w only result in lower player base.

people wont play any disadvantage game when they have another option.

all free players are ‘prospect’, they will bring money. people wont spend money on a dead game. making p2w will only kill the game.

premium players cant show off his awesome gear to the free players if free players not playing the game.

any type of real world money advantage (combat pvp) should only be in the wvw, not spvp.

spvp should be a balanced esport.

now my suggestion, veteran players who bought the base game should be allowed to use hot specialization in spvp (not wvw).

xKratos.4758:

All of you kids who said GW2 is P2W. Duel one of my boys for 500g. They will use vanilla specs and you can use the “OP P2W specs” and they will still farm all of you kids. All you kids whining about GW2 P2W just need to “git gud” 4Head

And I’m serious, I’ll pay 500g if you can beat one of my boys using vanilla specs. Only catch is you better pay me 500g if you got whoop by them. Don’t ditch out like that kid who think he can 1v1 me where I stream myself whooping him 20 times in a row and he didn’t pay.

Exceptions are the people I know that are decent, otherwise if you’re a random kittentter I’m 110% positive my boys can farm your kitten on vanilla specs.

KRATOS NO

nerovergil.5408:

Don’t twist the word buy to play. Its the same as pay to win. You buy (pay) hot, u get op specialization. no different, b2p = p2w

That is a blatant lie. Buy-to-play is the video game standard; you buy a game to play it. Pay-to-win is a business model whereby cash shop microtransactions offer advantages to paying customers that non-paying customers cannot match.

Velimere.7685:

nerovergil.5408:

Don’t twist the word buy to play. Its the same as pay to win. You buy (pay) hot, u get op specialization. no different, b2p = p2w

That is a blatant lie. Buy-to-play is the video game standard; you buy a game to play it. Pay-to-win is a business model whereby cash shop microtransactions offer advantages to paying customers that non-paying customers cannot match.

any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

nerovergil.5408:

Velimere.7685:

nerovergil.5408:

Don’t twist the word buy to play. Its the same as pay to win. You buy (pay) hot, u get op specialization. no different, b2p = p2w

That is a blatant lie. Buy-to-play is the video game standard; you buy a game to play it. Pay-to-win is a business model whereby cash shop microtransactions offer advantages to paying customers that non-paying customers cannot match.

any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

Right here’s the difference, you have to buy this game to play it in it’s entirity, you want to have the latest updated game to stay competitive in game ergo you buy the expansion. It’s like this in many many games.

P2w is where you can buy BiS armor or general stat increases ingame with the swipe of a credit card where any player who doesn’t fork out the same price will not catch up. That’s p2w.

The free to play model is not supposed to be the full game and is not supposed to be played long term, you are supposed to buy the game after trialling it. It’s a very generous free trial allowing you to level to 80 and play the core story in full.
Core game owners are technically running the old version of gw2, no way around that, that is the truth.

There’s been loads of players on f2p accounts and even HoT owners running vanilla specs and still progressing in the league system. If you can’t then the problem is you.

From how you think, any game you pay for no matter what, is p2w therefore there is no reasoning with you.

It’s like going to a restaurant, you have to wait for each course, but you still have to pay for the food.

nerovergil.5408:

any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

You are completely and utterly incorrect.

You’re a Chef that does good at the annual organic bake sell. Suddenly a new ingredient shows up in town that several chefs are using and it’s making their foods better. That and you only have to buy it once.

You don’t because the extra ingredient is pricey, you’re not sure if it’s organic and feel it should be seperated from the annual bake sell until things are worked out.

Like the above analogy, players disagree just like how the certain Chefs above disagree with the ingredient. But the ingredient and expansion are both B2P no matter how disgrunted the Chefs or players are with their allowance.

You buy it once and it’s used indefinitely, regardless of politics.

Haleydawn.3764:

nerovergil.5408:

Velimere.7685:

nerovergil.5408:

Don’t twist the word buy to play. Its the same as pay to win. You buy (pay) hot, u get op specialization. no different, b2p = p2w

That is a blatant lie. Buy-to-play is the video game standard; you buy a game to play it. Pay-to-win is a business model whereby cash shop microtransactions offer advantages to paying customers that non-paying customers cannot match.

any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

Right here’s the difference, you have to buy this game to play it in it’s entirity, you want to have the latest updated game to stay competitive in game ergo you buy the expansion. It’s like this in many many games.

P2w is where you can buy BiS armor or general stat increases ingame with the swipe of a credit card where any player who doesn’t fork out the same price will not catch up. That’s p2w.

The free to play model is not supposed to be the full game and is not supposed to be played long term, you are supposed to buy the game after trialling it. It’s a very generous free trial allowing you to level to 80 and play the core story in full.
Core game owners are technically running the old version of gw2, no way around that, that is the truth.

There’s been loads of players on f2p accounts and even HoT owners running vanilla specs and still progressing in the league system. If you can’t then the problem is you.

From how you think, any game you pay for no matter what, is p2w therefore there is no reasoning with you.

It’s like going to a restaurant, you have to wait for each course, but you still have to pay for the food.

Im playing vanilla thief and still progress into diamond league in season 4

the existence of DH completely change my playstyle. i usually go far to delay the enemies home cap. but since DH, i cant even delay the caps, DH nuke me in 2 sec. So i need to gank mid. See how op is HOT advance class.

see, any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

and p2w is bad.

u make example on food, but if mmorpg is food, there is free food.

competitive player can still play dota 2, lol.

but this is bad, it will decrease the player base.

we want moba player base to get into gw2, they all are prospect. sooner if they continue playing, they will bring money to dev.

example:

at school

A: Hey i have been playing gw2 spvp, kitten awesome men, its esport and balanced, just a short 15 minutes game thou, very fun!!

B: Wow really? i want to try bro

few month later.

A: How your game B?

B: gw2 is fun!!! hey check out my cool new outfit on gemstore!!! do u have it bro???

A: Oh that outfit is so cool.. and that weapon too!!! (kitten i wont lose to u!! i will buy it too!!!)

see, how more customers will bring more money to dev.

if nobody play it, nobody to show off to.

Sidetracking a little, as someone who doesn’t have the budget for HoT currently (USD/GBP/Euro are much stronger than my local currency so it really isn’t “dirt cheap” as some people claim), is there anywhere I could find competitive builds for the core classes? The search function in the forum hasn’t been particularly helpful, and almost none of the top Metabattle.com builds omit elite specialisations. Will be using these for next season. Thanks!

nerovergil.5408:

see, any form of cash that resulted in a combat systems is a p2w

This is a blatant falsification. The buy-to-play model requires money as per its namesake, and expansions are all buy-to-play by definition. Pay-to-win, on the other hand, isn’t defined as per your abuse and misuse of its application. You’re just plain wrong.

JTGuevara.9018:

It seems to me that some you in these forums LIKE the current state of things. You like the elite specs and all the advantages that they offer. You deny that you have an advantage over other players because, “Hey! I paid for it!”

It’s this type of attitude that’s driving new players away. This is why pvp is the gutter.

This is my last word on this thread.

Rise and stand up for your right to express yourself.

Don’t let the naysayer discourage you, they will always be there lurking for some love and attention.

With dedication and time, anyone can make other understand the reality.

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

It seems to me that some you in these forums LIKE the current state of things. You like the elite specs and all the advantages that they offer. You deny that you have an advantage over other players because, “Hey! I paid for it!”

It’s this type of attitude that’s driving new players away. This is why pvp is the gutter.

This is my last word on this thread.

It’s not about liking the states of things, several of us in the thread don’t.
It’s not about liking Elite more, or Core more – to each his own.
Many of us agree that Elite > Core – that’s irrelevant.

It’s about the business model
You buy it once. You play it. You don’t spend a cent more.

“What you bought is better than what I bought 4 years ago!”

I guess that makes every expansion in the MMORPG genre B2W then.

That was true, until Anet released Gw2 as a F2P game in August 2015.

Yes, right… people…. this game is F2P. It’s an option. And yes people, to compete in this game you need to Buy (or Pay) HoT. So it’s a B2W or P2W game.

As long the situation still reflect those facts, the game is definitely P2W.

In case you miss it, here is the released of F2P Gw2:

Official announcement:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/

All big gamer magazine in the world, cover this new business model:
http://culturedvultures.com/guild-wars-2-going-free-play-good-thing/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds-going-free-to-play-is-a-very-good-thing
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/29/guild-wars-2-free/

All F2P players (hundreds of millions) say something about it:
https://www.google.com/?hl=en&gws_rd=ssl#hl=en&q=gw2+p2w
About 59,000 results (0.35 seconds)

FACTS, FACTS, FACTS.

There’s no such thing as a free lunch…

You get a sample for free, you want the whole thing? Pay-up!

If you thought that the free version was going to put you on a level playing field with the paid version, you were fooling yourself. The free version is only there as an incentive. It let’s you see how the game works and allows you to test drive it to see if you like it. The game has always been buy-to-play. It’s misleading to say it’s buy-to-win, because even if you buy it, there is no guarantee you will win!

Jourdelune.7456:

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

It seems to me that some you in these forums LIKE the current state of things. You like the elite specs and all the advantages that they offer. You deny that you have an advantage over other players because, “Hey! I paid for it!”

It’s this type of attitude that’s driving new players away. This is why pvp is the gutter.

This is my last word on this thread.

It’s not about liking the states of things, several of us in the thread don’t.
It’s not about liking Elite more, or Core more – to each his own.
Many of us agree that Elite > Core – that’s irrelevant.

It’s about the business model
You buy it once. You play it. You don’t spend a cent more.

“What you bought is better than what I bought 4 years ago!”

I guess that makes every expansion in the MMORPG genre B2W then.

That was true, until Anet released Gw2 as a F2P game in August 2015.

Yes, right… people…. this game is F2P. It’s an option. And yes people, to compete in this game you need to Buy (or Pay) HoT. So it’s a B2W or P2W game.

Look up “is gw2 buy to win” on google and you’ll see a lot of threads of people disagreeing. This topic is definitely not facts vs opinions, it’s closer to an unanswerable religious or political debate.

If we’re looking at the root definition of B2W, in the MMORPG genre, that refers to certain microtransactions that gives you an advantage in some shape or form.

GW2’s expansion is extra content entirely, where the Devs simply didn’t seperate core from the elite in TPvP like how most mmorpgs do. The expansion being a single purchasable extension item, it isn’t B2W.

To get even more technical, a “win” is considered whether or not you reached Legendary in the leagues… many players have so to them it’s definitely can’t be B2W.

I occasionally read this thread for the laughs and satisfying facepalms.

Jourdelune.7456:

Yes, right… people…. this game is F2P. It’s an option. And yes people, to compete in this game you need to Buy (or Pay) HoT. So it’s a B2W or P2W game.

As long the situation still reflect those facts, the game is definitely P2W.

That is a blatant lie seeing as Guild Wars: 2 Heart of Thorns is buy-to-play like most if not all expansions for games that aren’t free whereas pay-to-win is a business model whereby cash shop microtransactions offer advantages to paying customers that non-paying customers cannot match.