Guild Wars 2

The limit of being able to take only 1 other player with you into ranked queue opens up the possibility for others to cause foul play. Lets for example say “Joe” is rank 2 on the PvP leader board and a guy named “Larry” is rank 5 on the PvP leader board. Larry likes the spot he is at and owns another account, Larry decides to log into his alt account to play in the season and ends up on Joe’s team. Larry intentionally throws the game to an extent to cost the game for Joe causing Larry’s main account to pass Joe’s in rank. Let us 5 man queue into ranked so we don’t get any Larrys on our team.

Larry would have to build up an alt account with enough MMR to be matched with Joe.

Nice meme, friend.

I say it should go the other way. :P Disallow any sort of grouping in Ranked; you guys have daily tournaments for your 5-man teams. Let Ranked be the true “roll of the dice” random PvP.

Srry NO. The pvp population just simply is not big enough to warrant the overwhelming advantage a 5 man team offers. The compromise could be to have a SEPARATE 5v5 queue and let the waiting times be what ever it has to be.

Reality is a very small segment of the gw2 population does pvp, the balance just isnt there, and an even smaller still does 5 man teams.

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

And even still, as long as they’re on the same ladder as soloQ players it would not be fair. They’d also need their own ladder to boot.

I suggested a large amount of times that the best chance to obtain a “balanced” queue is Force players to play as a 5 man team.
Change the way someone can join a team from 1-2 player to Only 5 players and implement the LFG System to better match the sPvP Ranked divisions.

No one will join as 1-2 player and fight with totally random players and classes without any strategy. You make your team, chose the classes, make a fast strategy and then join the ranked.

There’s few players that play sPvP but make them able to make teams and chose they’re composition and strategy will grant to all the players a Real Chance to play and win.

A bad team with a little of strategy and class composition will win even against a good team with random composition and no strategy.

It’s not so hard to do and will fix a lot of sPvP problems.

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

idk dude. I feel like 5 man queue would be a solution to the tears in the constant ‘Match Making QQ My Team Is Bad’ threads that pop up.

if everyone complaining about their teammates actually formed teams instead of just whining, I’m betting we would have a ton of teams. however they do seem to prefer to cry and lose, so I do see your population issue.

lead a horse to water, but you can’t stop him QQing about people throwing his placement games XD

If ranked leaderboard shall be more serious only solo Q will help … Not very social but the MMR system is individual. Won´t solve AFK and troll behavior but globaly make matchmaking and MMR measurement better.

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

LOL, No.

The people who want solo queue are a bunch of whiners who blame everyone and everything but themselves for losses.

By removing team queue, ranked has turned into a cesspool. Players have “solo queue mentality” where they run around trying to kill other players on their own and ignore teamwork and coordination and almost always try for a triple cap. And when they lose, one of those players yells at his/her teammates and blames them for the loss.

The “teams have an overwhelming advantage” line is just another fictitious excuse by the “blame everyone but myself” crowd. Unless you’re at the very top, most teams can’t coordinate past picking a decent roster of builds. And your split queue team has 1.5 minutes to communicate and swap team comp, making you on par with that team queue.

Exedore.6320:

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

LOL, No.

The people who want solo queue are a bunch of whiners who blame everyone and everything but themselves for losses.

By removing team queue, ranked has turned into a cesspool. Players have “solo queue mentality” where they run around trying to kill other players on their own and ignore teamwork and coordination and almost always try for a triple cap. And when they lose, one of those players yells at his/her teammates and blames them for the loss.

The “teams have an overwhelming advantage” line is just another fictitious excuse by the “blame everyone but myself” crowd. Unless you’re at the very top, most teams can’t coordinate past picking a decent roster of builds. And your split queue team has 1.5 minutes to communicate and swap team comp, making you on par with that team queue.

The reality is that we saw multiple seasons of 5 “man” groups farming solo’s. It finally got so extreme that ANET tried to compromise by making it duo queue.

What you’re saying is inaccurate based on what we’ve actually seen season after season, in-game.

Forced full teams also have the issue of being elitist. Right now, today, it’s very difficult to get into an AT match unless you are considered “good.” So the AT’s have become another elite inaccessible thing, not unlike raids.

What we need is SOLO queue where people are “judged” based on there personal skill and not that of there friends and enablers.

I completely agree.
It’s a team based 5v5 game… Not having the ability to play with a team in ranked is crazy to even think about.

If people also want to soloqueue without fighting teams, then add an additional queue for solo, and one for 2-5.

Automated tournaments are nice, and the only reason I’m back to the game since they removed team queue; but they are not enough imo.

Please bring back team queues.

Ithilwen.1529:

Exedore.6320:

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

LOL, No.

The people who want solo queue are a bunch of whiners who blame everyone and everything but themselves for losses.

By removing team queue, ranked has turned into a cesspool. Players have “solo queue mentality” where they run around trying to kill other players on their own and ignore teamwork and coordination and almost always try for a triple cap. And when they lose, one of those players yells at his/her teammates and blames them for the loss.

The “teams have an overwhelming advantage” line is just another fictitious excuse by the “blame everyone but myself” crowd. Unless you’re at the very top, most teams can’t coordinate past picking a decent roster of builds. And your split queue team has 1.5 minutes to communicate and swap team comp, making you on par with that team queue.

The reality is that we saw multiple seasons of 5 “man” groups farming solo’s. It finally got so extreme that ANET tried to compromise by making it duo queue.

What you’re saying is inaccurate based on what we’ve actually seen season after season, in-game.

Forced full teams also have the issue of being elitist. Right now, today, it’s very difficult to get into an AT match unless you are considered “good.” So the AT’s have become another elite inaccessible thing, not unlike raids.

What we need is SOLO queue where people are “judged” based on there personal skill and not that of there friends and enablers.

There are a number of issues with this line of thinking.

Stop trying to force a culture you want. People are competitive in nature. If you actively decide to do ranked pvp, you are putting yourself in a position where people will be competitive, elitest and try-hards. It’s not fair for you to dictate.

If you want solo queue, that’s fine. I’m happy to sign up where-ever I can to voice my opinion that you should have solo queue; although you shouldn’t have solo-queue at the loss of team queue.

Spvp in essence is a 5v5, team based gametype. By design and definition we should be able to queue with a full team of 5.
If that means 2 separate queues then so be it. We should not be forced to pick one or the other.

Additional issues with current system-
Right now, we only have the ability to queue with one other person. This still doesn’t resolve the fundamental problem people were having to begin the conversation in the first place.

People wanted to participate in ranked, but they didn’t want to meet up with 1-4 other people and practice together. And they felt as a severe disadvantage when they would queue solo and fight a team of 5.

Well.. we didn’t even get a resolution to that issue.
If I queue solo and get a team of pure solo queues, against 2 groups of 2, chances are we’re going to get CRUSHED.

We should have solo only, and team only. (team being defined as 2-5).

Ranked pvp will never be truly competitive otherwise.

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

@everyone

if you think that you can accurately determine personal skill w solo queue, you can’t. definitely not in the current gw2 ranked queue. there is too much exploiting & afking for that. low pop doesn’t help either. furthermore w each player only being 1/5 of the team, & low pop causing a wide skill disparity, the accuracy only gets worse.

i can win a game because Chaith carried me. no reflection on my gunflame spam at all.
Chaith can lose his next game due to a salty necro who afks after he dies in the opening midfight.
that salty necro can win his next game because a player on his side payed 50g for a member of the opposing team to throw.

see. look at these examples. what do these have to do w personal skill at all? like honestly, it’s hardly even a factor in these games.

a team of 5 fixes: afks, shoddy team composition, frustrating skill disparities, & discourages match manipulation. it also improves rotational skill, teamwork, & fosters positive social bonds.

sure, you can still get ‘carried by your team’ but that happens in solo queue too.

like humour me.
say i grab a pal of mine, Steve. he’s a really meh player. he likes bunker druid & fluctuates between silver & gold. not a great.
now say he gets teamed up w Chaith. Chaith is a great player, & if you’ve seen his streams you know he can carry hard. lets say he does. he wins 1v2s, rotates like a god, & shoves his function gyro so hard down the enemies throat it comes out the other side.
they win the game.

awesome. you still with me? this is when it gets interesting.
see, we can all agree that this win is a reflection of Chaith’s skill, he carried he deserves it. but what about Steve, he didn’t carry, so does he deserve the win? is this a reflection of his skill?

you, pro solo queue players, please answer?

===

to rebut preemptively:
i am aware that there is another argument. that in solo queue Steve can’t make sure he’s with Chaith, he can’t ensure a carry. but in team queue he would be able to always play w Chaith. ergo solo queue is better.

to reply:
we must take into account a few things. firstly bad matchmaking & afks. these both cause you to ‘unjustly’ lose rating. & going off the rebuttal, if you are carried then you don’t deserve the win, & it’s an unjust inflation.
take into account skill disparity, which means a lot of players will carry or be the weak link that throws the game. consider also how common afk players are.
this means, being carried, weak links, & afk players make up a sizeable amount of a lot of players games. so by our previous logic a large portion of solo queue games don’t actually reflect personal skill, more your luck of the draw w teams.

so with a lot of games invalid for the purpose of determining skill solo queue isn’t looking too great.

two points in favour of team queue as far as skill representation goes:
lets suppose Chaith & Steve are on a team. one could say Chaith is carrying Steve, just as one could say Chaith is playing with a handicap. there are good arguments for both. but i would ask, seeing as carrying weak links happen in solo queue too, are these actually negative points for team queue, or are they just features of a 5v5 team game? i would think the latter.
now, the second & important point. Steve is going to get better. he is going to improve. why? well, because he’s playing a helpful high skill player, Chaith. they will talk in discord. in there they will discuss builds, plan rotations, & co-ordinate spikes & resses. Steve is going to learn a lot. he is going to improve at a much faster rate than he would in solo queue. soon Steve will be weaving around on his s/d bunker looking all frosty. he’s gonna become less of a liability to the team. Chaith will have to carry him less & less.

so, you can see due to the faster pace of improvement in a team queue. the issue of carrying, & weak links is less pronounced. it actually creates a more skilled community & all but eliminates afk. seems ah, pretty a ok to me.

i feel the community just needs to be a little less lazy for 5v5 queue to work. only time can tell if that can be done. but to all those crying about their teams, dude team queue fixes that. don’t be such a child. take control.

====

if anyone answers me rebutting with a post about mixed queues you are a moron & i will bite your head off. i haven’t mentioned them once in my arguments. don’t pull that kitten.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Larry would have to build up an alt account with enough MMR to be matched with Joe.

Nice meme, friend.

Larry could win his first three placement games and get into a match with Joe

choovanski.5462:

@everyone

if you think that you can accurately determine personal skill w solo queue, you can’t. definitely not in the current gw2 ranked queue. there is too much exploiting & afking for that. low pop doesn’t help either. furthermore w each player only being 1/5 of the team, & low pop causing a wide skill disparity, the accuracy only gets worse.

i can win a game because Chaith carried me. no reflection on my gunflame spam at all.
Chaith can lose his next game due to a salty necro who afks after he dies in the opening midfight.
that salty necro can win his next game because a player on his side payed 50g for a member of the opposing team to throw.

see. look at these examples. what do these have to do w personal skill at all? like honestly, it’s hardly even a factor in these games.

a team of 5 fixes: afks, shoddy team composition, frustrating skill disparities, & discourages match manipulation. it also improves rotational skill, teamwork, & fosters positive social bonds.

sure, you can still get ‘carried by your team’ but that happens in solo queue too.

like humour me.
say i grab a pal of mine, Steve. he’s a really meh player. he likes bunker druid & fluctuates between silver & gold. not a great.
now say he gets teamed up w Chaith. Chaith is a great player, & if you’ve seen his streams you know he can carry hard. lets say he does. he wins 1v2s, rotates like a god, & shoves his function gyro so hard down the enemies throat it comes out the other side.
they win the game.

awesome. you still with me? this is when it gets interesting.
see, we can all agree that this win is a reflection of Chaith’s skill, he carried he deserves it. but what about Steve, he didn’t carry, so does he deserve the win? is this a reflection of his skill?

you, pro solo queue players, please answer?

===

to rebut preemptively:
i am aware that there is another argument. that in solo queue Steve can’t make sure he’s with Chaith, he can’t ensure a carry. but in team queue he would be able to always play w Chaith. ergo solo queue is better.

to reply:
we must take into account a few things. firstly bad matchmaking & afks. these both cause you to ‘unjustly’ lose rating. & going off the rebuttal, if you are carried then you don’t deserve the win, & it’s an unjust inflation.
take into account skill disparity, which means a lot of players will carry or be the weak link that throws the game. consider also how common afk players are.
this means, being carried, weak links, & afk players make up a sizeable amount of a lot of players games. so by our previous logic a large portion of solo queue games don’t actually reflect personal skill, more your luck of the draw w teams.

so with a lot of games invalid for the purpose of determining skill solo queue isn’t looking too great.

two points in favour of team queue as far as skill representation goes:
lets suppose Chaith & Steve are on a team. one could say Chaith is carrying Steve, just as one could say Chaith is playing with a handicap. there are good arguments for both. but i would ask, seeing as carrying weak links happen in solo queue too, are these actually negative points for team queue, or are they just features of a 5v5 team game? i would think the latter.
now, the second & important point. Steve is going to get better. he is going to improve. why? well, because he’s playing a helpful high skill player, Chaith. they will talk in discord. in there they will discuss builds, plan rotations, & co-ordinate spikes & resses. Steve is going to learn a lot. he is going to improve at a much faster rate than he would in solo queue. soon Steve will be weaving around on his s/d bunker looking all frosty. he’s gonna become less of a liability to the team. Chaith will have to carry him less & less.

so, you can see due to the faster pace of improvement in a team queue. the issue of carrying, & weak links is less pronounced. it actually creates a more skilled community & all but eliminates afk. seems ah, pretty a ok to me.

i feel the community just needs to be a little less lazy for 5v5 queue to work. only time can tell if that can be done. but to all those crying about their teams, dude team queue fixes that. don’t be such a child. take control.

====

if anyone answers me rebutting with a post about mixed queues you are a moron & i will bite your head off. i haven’t mentioned them once in my arguments. don’t pull that kitten.

I hope you realize chaith is only streaming so ppl can use his affiliate link to buy pof, hes gonna disappear once everyone is done buying pof.

choovanski.5462:

@everyone

if you think that you can accurately determine personal skill w solo queue, you can’t. definitely not in the current gw2 ranked queue. there is too much exploiting & afking for that. low pop doesn’t help either. furthermore w each player only being 1/5 of the team, & low pop causing a wide skill disparity, the accuracy only gets worse.

i can win a game because Chaith carried me. no reflection on my gunflame spam at all.
Chaith can lose his next game due to a salty necro who afks after he dies in the opening midfight.
that salty necro can win his next game because a player on his side payed 50g for a member of the opposing team to throw.

see. look at these examples. what do these have to do w personal skill at all? like honestly, it’s hardly even a factor in these games.

a team of 5 fixes: afks, shoddy team composition, frustrating skill disparities, & discourages match manipulation. it also improves rotational skill, teamwork, & fosters positive social bonds.

sure, you can still get ‘carried by your team’ but that happens in solo queue too.

like humour me.
say i grab a pal of mine, Steve. he’s a really meh player. he likes bunker druid & fluctuates between silver & gold. not a great.
now say he gets teamed up w Chaith. Chaith is a great player, & if you’ve seen his streams you know he can carry hard. lets say he does. he wins 1v2s, rotates like a god, & shoves his function gyro so hard down the enemies throat it comes out the other side.
they win the game.

awesome. you still with me? this is when it gets interesting.
see, we can all agree that this win is a reflection of Chaith’s skill, he carried he deserves it. but what about Steve, he didn’t carry, so does he deserve the win? is this a reflection of his skill?

you, pro solo queue players, please answer?

===

to rebut preemptively:
i am aware that there is another argument. that in solo queue Steve can’t make sure he’s with Chaith, he can’t ensure a carry. but in team queue he would be able to always play w Chaith. ergo solo queue is better.

to reply:
we must take into account a few things. firstly bad matchmaking & afks. these both cause you to ‘unjustly’ lose rating. & going off the rebuttal, if you are carried then you don’t deserve the win, & it’s an unjust inflation.
take into account skill disparity, which means a lot of players will carry or be the weak link that throws the game. consider also how common afk players are.
this means, being carried, weak links, & afk players make up a sizeable amount of a lot of players games. so by our previous logic a large portion of solo queue games don’t actually reflect personal skill, more your luck of the draw w teams.

so with a lot of games invalid for the purpose of determining skill solo queue isn’t looking too great.

two points in favour of team queue as far as skill representation goes:
lets suppose Chaith & Steve are on a team. one could say Chaith is carrying Steve, just as one could say Chaith is playing with a handicap. there are good arguments for both. but i would ask, seeing as carrying weak links happen in solo queue too, are these actually negative points for team queue, or are they just features of a 5v5 team game? i would think the latter.
now, the second & important point. Steve is going to get better. he is going to improve. why? well, because he’s playing a helpful high skill player, Chaith. they will talk in discord. in there they will discuss builds, plan rotations, & co-ordinate spikes & resses. Steve is going to learn a lot. he is going to improve at a much faster rate than he would in solo queue. soon Steve will be weaving around on his s/d bunker looking all frosty. he’s gonna become less of a liability to the team. Chaith will have to carry him less & less.

so, you can see due to the faster pace of improvement in a team queue. the issue of carrying, & weak links is less pronounced. it actually creates a more skilled community & all but eliminates afk. seems ah, pretty a ok to me.

i feel the community just needs to be a little less lazy for 5v5 queue to work. only time can tell if that can be done. but to all those crying about their teams, dude team queue fixes that. don’t be such a child. take control.

====

if anyone answers me rebutting with a post about mixed queues you are a moron & i will bite your head off. i haven’t mentioned them once in my arguments. don’t pull that kitten.

Took me a second to get through this novel :P

All in all I agree with your main points though.
Giving us back a true team queue resolves issues with players blaming matchmaking, players blaming carries etc.
It will provide the players with the ability to choose their teammates, play with friends, and foster new relationships.

If there is still a demand for a solo queue outside of quick matches, and unranked, then I think it’s fine to provide a separate ranked ladder for solo queue only, as long as we also get a team-queue option.

Team queue is elitist. It has been for the lifetime of “competitive seasons” primarily a tool for exploiting solos.

Those of us who have been here long enough to remember a true solo queue and a true team queue will likely recall two things;

Team queue was grossly unpopular, which is why it was merged into solo queue to begin with.

Match quality deteriorated a great deal when team was merged with solo and it has never recovered.

Team queue should go away in ranked PvP it does far more harm than good.

Ithilwen.1529:

Team queue is elitist. It has been for the lifetime of “competitive seasons” primarily a tool for exploiting solos.

Those of us who have been here long enough to remember a true solo queue and a true team queue will likely recall two things;

Team queue was grossly unpopular, which is why it was merged into solo queue to begin with.

Match quality deteriorated a great deal when team was merged with solo and it has never recovered.

Team queue should go away in ranked PvP it does far more harm than good.

If I may be blunt.
Why are you interested in playing a multiplayer, team based, competitive bracket if you don’t like either of those things?

I don’t intend to sound rude, elitist, or exclusionary; But I honestly am having a difficult time seeing your point.

It’s also important to note I am not suggesting we remove your ability to solo-queue; I simply want to be given the opportunity to play the game with my friends, as a team, in a ranked ladder. The way the game was initially designed.

The team queue was merged into solo queue. Prior to that it was separated. I believe the main reason for doing this was that team queue had very long waits. This illustrates that team queue was not well attended.

Unfortunately, when the merge happened match quality suffered. Running on a team has a considerable advantage over PuG ing. Since that time, teams have been matched against solos and the current low population is a direct result of that.

There’s nothing inherently “team based” about PvP. That’s a myth. Team playing is a technique for gaining an advantage over solo players.

To support a team queue with the current population, you’d have to go compulsory teams like the current Automated Tournaments.

As we are seeing in the AT’s, teams are inherently exclusionary. They introduce the schoolyard politics of who gets picked for the team.

Or we make it a real competition and go solo queue only. Concrap circle dancing with 5 man ques ruin fun for solo queue or people queing just 2 peeps.

Voice chat players will beat non voice chat Everytime even if they are carrying a Amber player to play.

[quote=6722239;Actiondan.8146:]

[quote=6722239;Actiondan.8146:]

Ithilwen.1529:

The team queue was merged into solo queue. Prior to that it was separated. I believe the main reason for doing this was that team queue had very long waits. This illustrates that team queue was not well attended.

Unfortunately, when the merge happened match quality suffered. Running on a team has a considerable advantage over PuG ing. Since that time, teams have been matched against solos and the current low population is a direct result of that.

There’s nothing inherently “team based” about PvP. That’s a myth. Team playing is a technique for gaining an advantage over solo players.

To support a team queue with the current population, you’d have to go compulsory teams like the current Automated Tournaments.

As we are seeing in the AT’s, teams are inherently exclusionary. They introduce the schoolyard politics of who gets picked for the team.

Point made; allow me to respond and please keep an open mind.

As a player who enjoys playing with a team, I don’t mind waiting for longer queue times.
Not to mention if you prefer solo queuing, you will never be affected by this anyway, so it’s not really fair to fight my opinion.

Secondly; there is absolutely team based pvp- simply calling it a “myth” or attempting to argue it’s “only to exploit solo players” is exaggerated and false.
To prove this, I would like to invite you into my guild/teams discord server and play with us for a little bit some night in the near future. Who knows, maybe you’ll make some friends and see that there is a quality team element to the game. Possibly a side of the game you haven’t experienced yet.

As far as your dislike of “schoolyard politics” for ATs- there’s nothing anyone can do about that.
I would love to play in the NHL and join the Penguins, but I don’t claim that Pittsburgh is exclusionary.
No one should police a group of friends and dictate who we can cannot play with.

As emphasis, I don’t want to remove your ability to enjoy this game as a solo-queue player in spvp.
I simply want to add the ability for my team and myself to enjoy the game as well.

Ziggityzog.7389:

Or we make it a real competition and go solo queue only. Concrap circle dancing with 5 man ques ruin fun for solo queue or people queing just 2 peeps.

Voice chat players will beat non voice chat Everytime even if they are carrying a Amber player to play.

Or we can keep everyone happy as possible and provide both options?
Have a real solo queue and a team queue for people joining in 2, 3, or 5 person teams.

Sure people on comms will be more coordinated, how is that a bad thing for team based anything?

Hell, even now I regularly invite players I don’t know, but meet in pvp into my guild’s discord server so we can have fun and play together.

Actiondan.8146:

I simply want to be given the opportunity to play the game with my friends, as a team, in a ranked ladder. The way the game was initially designed.

Why would you want to able to compete as a fixed team to climb in an individual(!) ranking system?

Common sense tells you that such a setup is illogical. It would be like ranking indidual football players judging by their teams’ performance in the primary league. It does not make any sense.

You compete as a team, you get ranked/placed as team (AT). You compete as individual in a team mode, you get ranked as individual. Radomness in teammates ensures that all other factors are cancelled out in the lonk run.

Also, read what others have said about your suggestion with a seperate team queue. We have been there, it was hugely unpopular. Anet has stated multiple times that the vast majority of PvPers plays solo. That may not be your preference, but you damand to cater to a small minority.

Kir Sakar.3647:

Actiondan.8146:

I simply want to be given the opportunity to play the game with my friends, as a team, in a ranked ladder. The way the game was initially designed.

Why would you want to able to compete as a fixed team to climb in an individual(!) ranking system?

Common sense tells you that such a setup is illogical. It would be like ranking indidual football players judging by their teams’ performance in the primary league. It does not make any sense.

You compete as a team, you get ranked/placed as team (AT). You compete as individual in a team mode, you get ranked as individual. Radomness in teammates ensures that all other factors are cancelled out in the lonk run.

Also, read what others have said about your suggestion with a seperate team queue. We have been there, it was hugely unpopular. Anet has stated multiple times that the vast majority of PvPers plays solo. That may not be your preference, but you damand to cater to a small minority.

Who said anything about a fixed team?
Maybe you’re unfamiliar with the standard.. but it’s incredibly popular and industry standard to have personal MMR and still have the ability to group queue.

Literally most games do it… WoW, LoL, dota2, overwatch, CSGO the list goes on.

What would my queue times as a group have anything to do with you? Why does it bother you so much to login and post? If you don’t want to group queue- don’t.

By your logic, we shouldn’t even have the ability to duo queue for an “individual system”. That’s clearly not correct.

Actiondan.8146:

.

Literally most games do it… WoW, LoL, dota2, overwatch, CSGO the list goes on.

What would my queue times as a group have anything to do with you? Why does it bother you so much to login and post? If you don’t want to group queue- don’t.

I (like most soloQ players, this has been discussed over and over) do not want to face preformed teams. I also do not want to compete on the same leaderboard with players that play under vastly different circumstances.

The other games you mention have not only seperate MMRs for solo and teamQ, but also a huge pool of players to draw from. I repeat, seperate Qs existed in this game and they failed due to lack of players interested in the TeamQ. Get over it.

Kir Sakar.3647:

Actiondan.8146:

.

Literally most games do it… WoW, LoL, dota2, overwatch, CSGO the list goes on.

What would my queue times as a group have anything to do with you? Why does it bother you so much to login and post? If you don’t want to group queue- don’t.

I (like most soloQ players, this has been discussed over and over) do not want to face preformed teams. I also do not want to compete on the same leaderboard with players that play under vastly different circumstances.

The other games you mention have not only seperate MMRs for solo and teamQ, but also a huge pool of players to draw from. I repeat, seperate Qs existed in this game and they failed due to lack of players interested in the TeamQ. Get over it.

I really really don’t want to come off like a jerk here.. But you clearly have not read anything I’ve said.

I don’t want to fight soloqueuers either.
Not only did I NEVER say that I did- but each post I made outlined specifics like having a separate ladder, and a separate queue.

Unless you have an opinion on group queuing— your solo queue opinion is completely irrelevant. My proposal doesn’t change or affect anything you do or want to do.

Why are you so concerned with policing how I play or who I want to play with?
You need to get over it.

Actiondan.8146:

Why are you so concerned with policing how I play or who I want to play with?
You need to get over it.

I don’t “police” anyone, please try with a little less drama and a bit more sensible discussion. I explained to you why you proposal did not work in this game in the past and therefore likely will not work in the future either. But you prefer to ignore facts and arguments…

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Actiondan.8146:

Who said anything about a fixed team?

ranked is for achieving a personal rank and the only way to calculate this(in the longterm) is solo random q, allowing players to form any form of team shadows they personal rank behind team rank, and skill of their friends.
if any sort of ranked is available for teams have to be for fixed teams to be ranked as a team( i sugest that will be a form of incription with 7-8 players for team that can be switched for tactic or pure time disposition of the players(if they want be only five and carry 3 trash tier friends is their option and their self limitation). variable teams cant not be ranked

only form to achieve and acurate calculation of personal rank is randomes, for removing bad match quality the solution is not team,: is perfectioning the mm algorism and the more important punishing trols afkrs and bad sportmanship

Kir Sakar.3647:

Actiondan.8146:

Why are you so concerned with policing how I play or who I want to play with?
You need to get over it.

I don’t “police” anyone, please try with a little less drama and a bit more sensible discussion. I explained to you why you proposal did not work in this game in the past and therefore likely will not work in the future either. But you prefer to ignore facts and arguments…

Couldn’t be further from the truth.
You should understand- you didn’t explain anything.
You failed to read and comprehend my initial proposal. You repeatedly stated that you didn’t want to soloq against teams, when that has literally nothing to do with it.

We lost the ability for sensible discussion when you decided that you have something to prove by arguing with someone over the internet about a feature of the game you’ve stated yourself you wouldn’t use.
You make as much sense as me making an account to log into a game I don’t play forums to argue with them about new features.

Do you feel the need to go over to the pve forums and tell people asking for new fractals/dungeons “no”?

You have zero data or facts to even attempt to prove your weakly formed “argument” and are simply responding off-topic tantrums ad nauseam because you got continuously picked last in kickball.

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.

If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.

You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.

None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?

Actiondan.8146:

Or we can keep everyone happy as possible and provide both options?
Have a real solo queue and a team queue for people joining in 2, 3, or 5 person teams.

Funny thing is, this existed about 6months after the game launched for a year or so (my timeline may be slightly off). Most players shifted from solo queue to group (1-5) queue, even solo players. The group queue dynamics implicitly forced teamwork and coordination to happen and were less toxic. Meanwhile, solo queue grew increasingly argumentative with a lot of “solo queue heroes” who would just try to kill other players instead of playing to win a match. So ANet just removed solo queue.

I don’t know why we need to repeat the same exercise. Just to back to a single 1-5 player queue with matchmaking weighed toward pairing teams.

megilandil.7506:

Actiondan.8146:

Who said anything about a fixed team?

ranked is for achieving a personal rank and the only way to calculate this(in the longterm) is solo random q, allowing players to form any form of team shadows they personal rank behind team rank, and skill of their friends.
if any sort of ranked is available for teams have to be for fixed teams to be ranked as a team( i sugest that will be a form of incription with 7-8 players for team that can be switched for tactic or pure time disposition of the players(if they want be only five and carry 3 trash tier friends is their option and their self limitation). variable teams cant not be ranked

only form to achieve and acurate calculation of personal rank is randomes, for removing bad match quality the solution is not team,: is perfectioning the mm algorism and the more important punishing trols afkrs and bad sportmanship

You’re incredibly mis-informed and speaking out of ignorance.

I’m willing to help though-
It’s standard in competitive gaming today to have a Glicko based ELO personal rating system within team based games.

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Team based ladders /w personal ELO:
1. Wow 3v3 ladder- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

2. Wow RBG ladder – http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&realm=&rating=0&ladder=RBG&faction=

3. HOTS ladder TeamLeague – http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/leaderboards/team/5/americas

4. LoL ladder – https://na.op.gg/ranking/ladder/

5. CSGO – http://csgo.tracker.network/

Please do your research before commenting.

Exedore.6320:

Actiondan.8146:

Or we can keep everyone happy as possible and provide both options?
Have a real solo queue and a team queue for people joining in 2, 3, or 5 person teams.

Funny thing is, this existed about 6months after the game launched for a year or so (my timeline may be slightly off). Most players shifted from solo queue to group (1-5) queue, even solo players. The group queue dynamics implicitly forced teamwork and coordination to happen and were less toxic. Meanwhile, solo queue grew increasingly argumentative with a lot of “solo queue heroes” who would just try to kill other players instead of playing to win a match. So ANet just removed solo queue.

I don’t know why we need to repeat the same exercise. Just to back to a single 1-5 player queue with matchmaking weighed toward pairing teams.

I see what you are saying here, and remember those days myself.

The only issue though is I actively want to avoid removing a feature that some people may enjoy.

For some reason or another though, these forum heroes think that their opinion matters for a game mode they have already proclaimed they won’t take part in. Why they are still here dumbfounds me.

The resolution to the issue is providing a team queue in parallel with a solo queue.
Keeps people like us happy so we can play with our friends and have a blast fighting other teams.
And these soloq players can continue being alone.

There is only a net benefit here; outside of the fragile egos of a couple of the toxic forum users.

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.

If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.

You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.

None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.

If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.

You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.

None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

They should go back to solo/duo and mixed queue regardless of population. I stopped playing ranked primarily due to the fact that I can’t really play with friends anymore (never really had enough for a full team and it took them forever to add ATs so the “team” we did have kind of split up). Solo/duo is stressful for a variety of reasons and there needs to be an outlet for groups of 3+ that isn’t unranked or ATs.

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

Since that vote was taken, there have been repeated forum and subreddit posts asking for team queue back.
Not to mention this was months and months and months ago and we have no way of knowing how that vote would go today.

*ATs are a neat idea, but hardly group queue ranked.
They are flawed at the start because they are on set times that players can’t decide so trying to round up an exact static group to be on for a specific hour is an extra barrier.

*Team arena in gw2 is highly played, in unranked even today.

*Speaking of gw1, you could team queue. For the entire life of the game.

*Lets not armchair dev estimate dev time for a feature that already exists, bud.

Again- this topic isn’t about ATs.

Actiondan.8146:

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

Since that vote was taken, there have been repeated forum and subreddit posts asking for team queue back.
Not to mention this was months and months and months ago and we have no way of knowing how that vote would go today.

*ATs are a neat idea, but hardly group queue ranked.
They are flawed at the start because they are on set times that players can’t decide so trying to round up an exact static group to be on for a specific hour is an extra barrier.

*Team arena in gw2 is highly played, in unranked even today.

*Speaking of gw1, you could team queue. For the entire life of the game.

*Lets not armchair dev estimate dev time for a feature that already exists, bud.

Again- this topic isn’t about ATs.

• I dont mind if they bring it up for a vote again.
• If you are asking for a separate ladder for team queue, that is a new feature.
• The only reason you can get a match in gw1 team queue is because you are forced there after you win 10 random arena matches in a row.
• The reason ATs are relevant is it is a 5man competitive game mode that currently exists.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.

If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.

You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.

None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

They should go back to solo/duo and mixed queue regardless of population. I stopped playing ranked primarily due to the fact that I can’t really play with friends anymore (never really had enough for a full team and it took them forever to add ATs so the “team” we did have kind of split up). Solo/duo is stressful for a variety of reasons and there needs to be an outlet for groups of 3+ that isn’t unranked or ATs.

If you are worried about stress queueing with 2, I’m not sure how queuing with one more person helps. I would think hotjoin or unranked would be a better fit than ranked. Also you can queue more than two in ranked in between seasons.

Exedore.6320:

Actiondan.8146:

Or we can keep everyone happy as possible and provide both options?
Have a real solo queue and a team queue for people joining in 2, 3, or 5 person teams.

Funny thing is, this existed about 6months after the game launched for a year or so (my timeline may be slightly off). Most players shifted from solo queue to group (1-5) queue, even solo players. The group queue dynamics implicitly forced teamwork and coordination to happen and were less toxic. Meanwhile, solo queue grew increasingly argumentative with a lot of “solo queue heroes” who would just try to kill other players instead of playing to win a match. So ANet just removed solo queue.

I don’t know why we need to repeat the same exercise. Just to back to a single 1-5 player queue with matchmaking weighed toward pairing teams.

That’s pure revisionist history. I remember the change, team queue was the place no one wanted to be. It was merged into solo queue because team queue wait times were stretching into untenable levels.

the reality is that the community backed solo queue. Ever since the merger, match quality has been noticeably worse.

Duo Rank Q == Slot Machine Random Match making.

Team Q give you the chance to choose with who you play. Strong players will choose Strong Players. The bad one, will get stuck until they get better and proof their worth.

Community players will play with their guilds, with some bads some goods, they strive to make the community better.

Exedore.6320:

Master Ketsu.4569:

As has been stated numerous times, the people who desire 5 man are an extremely vocal minority. 5 man would benefit a microscopic group of players at the expense of legit everyone else.

The only way 5 man can ever be OK is if it was 100% impossible to be matched against anything other than other 5 mans. The moment 5 man is allowed to go up against solo queue is the moment matchmaking becomes completely broken.

LOL, No.

The people who want solo queue are a bunch of whiners who blame everyone and everything but themselves for losses.

By removing team queue, ranked has turned into a cesspool. Players have “solo queue mentality” where they run around trying to kill other players on their own and ignore teamwork and coordination and almost always try for a triple cap. And when they lose, one of those players yells at his/her teammates and blames them for the loss.

The “teams have an overwhelming advantage” line is just another fictitious excuse by the “blame everyone but myself” crowd. Unless you’re at the very top, most teams can’t coordinate past picking a decent roster of builds. And your split queue team has 1.5 minutes to communicate and swap team comp, making you on par with that team queue.

Yeah I don’t get why those whiners don’t get the bots on their teams to play better.

Jourdelune.7456:

Duo Rank Q == Slot Machine Random Match making.

Team Q give you the chance to choose with who you play. Strong players will choose Strong Players. The bad one, will get stuck until they get better and proof their worth.

Community players will play with their guilds, with some bads some goods, they strive to make the community better.

Exactly.
Not to mention, with the suggestion of just separating them, these people have literally nothing to complain about. But can’t help themselves.

They can’t stop themselves from “I don’t like it, therefore you shouldn’t have it”.

Children.

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s pure revisionist history. I remember the change, team queue was the place no one wanted to be. It was merged into solo queue because team queue wait times were stretching into untenable levels.

You’re the one doing the revising. In that old system, solo queue was initially more poplar, but after a month or so, team queue had faster queue times and better game quality.

Faux Play.6104:

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

Actiondan.8146:

Faux Play.6104:

The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.

I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.

I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.

I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.

Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.

If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.

You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.

None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?

I look at the following:

• team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
• The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
• Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.

PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.

They should go back to solo/duo and mixed queue regardless of population. I stopped playing ranked primarily due to the fact that I can’t really play with friends anymore (never really had enough for a full team and it took them forever to add ATs so the “team” we did have kind of split up). Solo/duo is stressful for a variety of reasons and there needs to be an outlet for groups of 3+ that isn’t unranked or ATs.

If you are worried about stress queueing with 2, I’m not sure how queuing with one more person helps. I would think hotjoin or unranked would be a better fit than ranked. Also you can queue more than two in ranked in between seasons.

There’s far more toxicity in solo/duo than there ever was in mixed queue. I don’t feel the need to get berated by teammates every few games or have them go AFK 30seconds into a match because we lost the initial mid fight. Or better yet have them throw for someone on the other team. Match manipulation is far more rampant than it used to be (season 1-4 had it’s issues, too, but that was mostly related to how the match maker selected teams and got abused that way).

With more people you can control who you get on your team and therefore reduce the possibility of having issues like these happen. In solo duo you have no idea what you’re going to get and that in and of itself is stressful.

Telling me to go play hotjoin or unranked isn’t the same thing in the least and is a little bit insulting actually. It isn’t a viable solution when we had a perfectly fine system before that could have been improved on just by splitting the queue. There are tons of people like me who pretty much stopped playing ranked due to the solo/duo changes. Pretty much everyone I pvped with feels that way.