Guild Wars 2

Hey guys!

So I personally am annoyed by the fact a ranger can use his F skills in downed state. I mean being able to taunt, fear, swap, fear, downed F4 after eachother annoys me, even when having a few stab. Now I am not here to complain as it may seem, I am seeking the knowledge: WHY??

Thanks ^^

This is annoying indeed, but you normally need stability/blind/invulnerability/stealth to stomp most classes anyway.

Just make sure to blind the pet or have at least 2 stacks of stability. Ranger should only be able to get 2 skills off (interrupt + taunt) during the stomp animation.

Because everyone hates rangers and no one will ress them but there pets. But serieusly “why”? Probably because its designed to work like that. Fair? Probably not but, but i wish we didnt have downstate in the first place

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

This does indeed make some sense. But in all honestly, it doesn’t seem like a way to ‘fix’ it. Its like breaking a kids favorite teddybear and giving him some candy just in the hope to forget it.
However I am getting off topic, anyway thanks for the replies

Same reason necros get spinal shivers.

I am more annoyed that in the water a completely dead pet can res the ranger while you cannot even stomp :/

But that only really applies to WvW.

Zietlogik.6208:

I am more annoyed that in the water a completely dead pet can res the ranger while you cannot even stomp :/

But that only really applies to WvW.

OP since release

Some downstates NEED to be stomped twice so idgaf about what rangers do in downstate its not more annoying than having a mesmer or theif teleport or ele mist form. By stomp twice I mean you need to force the stomp, or cleave obviously which is usually the way to go but is risky if there is not enough cleave.

Why Rangers can use their profession mechanic while downed, unlike everyone else, is probably because the pet is sort of a separate entity. Your allies don’t stop doing things because you went down, the Pet is just an ally in the form of a profession mechanic.

Ashkew.6584:

Because everyone hates rangers and no one will ress them but there pets. But serieusly “why”? Probably because its designed to work like that. Fair? Probably not but, but i wish we didnt have downstate in the first place

Oh i wish …i wish.Downed state is still the worst of the worst kittening mechanics ive ever witnessed in an mmo,and that wont ever change.

Caedmon.6798:

Ashkew.6584:

Because everyone hates rangers and no one will ress them but there pets. But serieusly “why”? Probably because its designed to work like that. Fair? Probably not but, but i wish we didnt have downstate in the first place

Oh i wish …i wish.Downed state is still the worst of the worst kittening mechanics ive ever witnessed in an mmo,and that wont ever change.

i disagree, i like that a smart team will rez and it can change a fight. Also having the ability to trait for picking up players faster makes for many more options.

It just creates another level of PvP which i enjoy.

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Why aren’t you swapping pets? Who is focusing pets? Why haven’t you killed the guy wasting his time killing two pets?

why can eles use mistform in downstate? (well i know eles are nearly never in downstate this days so nobody notice maybe)

why i can’t i safe stomp a ele, mes, thief with stability in downstate?

why is ranger the worst profession in pvp and can’t make it into a competitive team since 1 year?

Now I am not here to complain as it may seem, I am seeking the knowledge: WHY??

thanks

Schurge.5194:

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Why aren’t you swapping pets? Who is focusing pets? Why haven’t you killed the guy wasting his time killing two pets?

Because a Burn Guardian can kill the “useful pets” (please don’t mention bear.. it’s USELESS in PVP) in 3~4 seconds alone.

Ele can easily do the same with their burning since pets AI is atrocious and would keep enter in an out of fire field and unable to dodge.

And even with this so called “unfair advantages”, ranger is still the worst class in high-end PVP. (Go do some research yourself, I’m tired of explaining why)

ps: Necro is no longer in the league of “worst class” now thanks to the new signet build.

Ryan.9387:

Same reason necros get spinal shivers.

Because they take a trait for it? What trait are the Rangers taking for it?

Ranger is cursed as aa ‘duality’. They HAVE to play that way standing up and they ‘get’ to play that wày while downed. It is not just ‘Ranger’. It is Ranger/Pet.

The V.8759:

Hey guys!

So I personally am annoyed by the fact a ranger can use his F skills in downed state. I mean being able to taunt, fear, swap, fear, downed F4 after eachother annoys me, even when having a few stab. Now I am not here to complain as it may seem, I am seeking the knowledge: WHY??

Thanks ^^

The pet on a ranger may be the most broken mechanic in GW2. For years it has been bugged. However “licking your wounds” healing skill may be the primary reason why the F mechanic is needed. If a pet is aggrod some where and F3/F4 is disabled there is likely no way to get healed back up. And for months even the “licking your wounds” was broken. This F key issue has been brought up so many times that it’ll make your head spin. (Also Taunt has a 15 second cooldown, so it wouldn’t be two taunts)

because ranger is down not his pet nad when pet is down ranger cant use f skill

Aomine.5012:

Schurge.5194:

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Why aren’t you swapping pets? Who is focusing pets? Why haven’t you killed the guy wasting his time killing two pets?

Because a Burn Guardian can kill the “useful pets” (please don’t mention bear.. it’s USELESS in PVP) in 3~4 seconds alone.

Ele can easily do the same with their burning since pets AI is atrocious and would keep enter in an out of fire field and unable to dodge.

And even with this so called “unfair advantages”, ranger is still the worst class in high-end PVP. (Go do some research yourself, I’m tired of explaining why)

ps: Necro is no longer in the league of “worst class” now thanks to the new signet build.

I’ve never thought Necromancer was in the league of worst class and I currently run modified celestial signet build. I also see nothing wrong with the Rangers downed state as annoying as it is. As another player put it here, “it’s just how it is.”

I just don’t see both Ranger pets being killed very often… and two of the players I primarily run with are Rangers… Though your explanation would make sense. As a Necromancer, my Ranger buddies don’t spend a lot of time worrying about conditions. In general, we run a kitten ton of condi cleanse and support.

Here is the list of downstate survivability rating, in my opinion
Top is best, bottom is worst:

• Warrior can flat out get up and keep fighting, down you, stomp you, rally and live. This is high survivability through downstate. If you are talking 1v1 situations, I see more Warrior comebacks than anything. In team fights it is also amongst the best downstate characters but usually gets cleaved too fast without the support of someone reviving.
• Ranger is second only to the Warrior. A Ranger can comeback in 1v1 through pet revival yes but this is not as easy as it seems against better opponents. This is however strong in team fights, debatably better than a Warrior because even a dead wolf can revive you through cleave DPS unless he is CC’d. Again though, better players don’t have so much difficulty stopping pet revives or plainly cleaving through it with high DPS.
• Thief/Mesmer can annoyingly avoid being finished for quite some time due to random stealthing, teleporting and generally avoid being finished. They however have no chance of turning a 1v1 downstate situation around in the same manner that a Warrior or Ranger could. They are simply good at stalling for revives.
• Necro/Ele – Necro has dangerous DPS when downed and Ele can stall finishers to an extent but neither of these abilities are able to really turn a 1v1 downstate around. Necro DPS is high yes but usually opponents deal with it wisely and that high DPS is simply a stall. Ele gets one mist form and then he’s done if no revive.
• Guardian/Engi – Terrible downstate skills. Both of them need something more. Guardian #2 is too obvious and easily dodged, Guardian #3 doesn’t heal enough and is in no way as valuable as a stealth or teleport for stalling. Engi 2/3 are cute CCs but again, nothing as useful as stealths/teleports for stalling.

So back to the OP’s topic ~
Ranger downstate is powerful yes but rather than nerfing it in to the ground, it simply needs one change:

• Pets with no health cannot revive.

Using lick wounds revives the pet, if it is dead, but if you kill the pet after is starts ressing, it can’t rez anymore until lick wounds is ready again (20 sec cd i think, not sure).

Necro usually wins downstate fight in 1vs1 against ranger (and most likely against every other class too). How strong the downstates abilities are, depends mostly on the situation. Ranger/Warrior can do nothing against stability/invuln stomps. If you have a portal or a thief for ressing or a nearby tower in wvw, ele downstate is by far the strongest. And so on …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Using lick wounds revives the pet, if it is dead, but if you kill the pet after is starts ressing, it can’t rez anymore until lick wounds is ready again (20 sec cd i think, not sure).

Necro usually wins downstate fight in 1vs1 against ranger (and most likely against every other class too). How strong the downstates abilities are, depends mostly on the situation. Ranger/Warrior can do nothing against stability/invuln stomps. If you have a portal or a thief for ressing or a nearby tower in wvw, ele downstate is by far the strongest. And so on …

I agree with this 100%

In “coordinate team fight”, one can argue Ele having the best down skill because he can reposition himself to somewhere favorable for your teammate to rev while staying invulnerable for some time to avoid cleaves.

There’re so many ways to deal with CC type of downstate, especially during 1 v 1.
(Stability, blind stomp, stealth stomp, teleport stomp, invulnerable stomp, even Gyro from Engi is going to stomp now)
Generally speaking, CC type of down-state is not reliable.
Ranger and Warrior are in this category too.
Also revenge can actually give negative impact in 1 v 1 in PVP due to not able to cap the node while in this phase, meaning you’re wasting precious time that you could use to come back in real life instead.

The V.8759:

WHY??

Everybody in this thread is focused on the wrong questions. The question was not, if it is fair, that ranger can still command his pets, it was why.

The answer is most likely much simpler: it just happened from a technical point of view.

I can imaging, that it comes from the difference between doing an ability yourself and commanding your pet to do so.

Well, as a ranger, I will tell you since the last big push update, I’ve noticed the F2 skill on pets only works like 50% of the time now when downed. Usually getting off a Fear or a Taunt only buys you about 5 seconds. It very rarely turns the game for me.

The other thing I’ve noticed with ranger down states, as ranger, is if fighting another ranger to low health and I down him, I need to be very careful how I stomp him. Because if he downs me while I stomp, he will automatically win duel since his pet will respawn him slightly quicker.

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Mesmer Class mechanics can be shut down with AoEs, Warrior/Teef class mechanic can be shut down with dodge/(interrupts) etc.

Ranger Class mechanic can be shut down with 15-30 k damage that the player doesn’t eat. Higher cd sounds fair to me

MarauderShields.6830:

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Mesmer Class mechanics can be shut down with AoEs, Warrior/Teef class mechanic can be shut down with dodge/(interrupts) etc.

Ranger Class mechanic can be shut down with 15-30 k damage that the player doesn’t eat. Higher cd sounds fair to me

Cmon, all the strong classes now cleave like hell and use lots of AOE/ fields.

What do you mean 15~30k pet eats? Are you playing PVE or something?
Pet doesn’t protect you at all in PVP, and just passively getting killed by all the random conditions and AOE due to atrocious pathing / AI, inability to dodge, and inability to cleanse/ mitigate damage.

Because all other professions have a way of interrupting when downed and this is the ranger option?

the ranger needs to have the correct pet too if they want that ability otherwise its just no use.

Aomine.5012:

MarauderShields.6830:

Puck.9612:

It’s to make up for the fact that rangers are the only class that can have their profession mechanic shut down for 60 seconds by an opposing player.

Mesmer Class mechanics can be shut down with AoEs, Warrior/Teef class mechanic can be shut down with dodge/(interrupts) etc.

Ranger Class mechanic can be shut down with 15-30 k damage that the player doesn’t eat. Higher cd sounds fair to me

Cmon, all the strong classes now cleave like hell and use lots of AOE/ fields.

What do you mean 15~30k pet eats? Are you playing PVE or something?
Pet doesn’t protect you at all in PVP, and just passively getting killed by all the random conditions and AOE due to atrocious pathing / AI, inability to dodge, and inability to cleanse/ mitigate damage?

Yeah, it’s such a pain. If I bring a bird into PvP, even with full BM, one ring random ring of fire from a cele ele eats away a big chunk of its health in mere moments. In team fights it’s even bigger nightmare because all of the random AoE and cleave going around these days.

Aomine.5012:

Cmon, all the strong classes now cleave like hell and use lots of AOE/ fields.

You just discovered the actual problem…

With less abundant AoE spam, the micromanagement would be suffcient. Pathfinding could be better and I would like to have a “disengage” f5, but that’s about it

Annoying? No, this is an awesome thing! Whether you play a ranger or not, you can’t deny that pet control while downed increases the skill cap for fights involving rangers and that’s a good thing, particularly since a lot of ranger builds have a relatively lower skill cap.

Also, if anything, Rangers need more reason to actively use their pet rather than ignoring them as passive AI.

meanwhile engineers get a pulling hook to have enemies be merciful and hopefully finish them sooner

Edit: Wrong tab ><

Well, it’s good for Rangers no?

They’re crippled quite well vs other classes.

Give them some window or two.

Two reasons:

1. Because many of the Ranger’s skills boost the pet, and the pet even shares condition removal. If the pet became useless when the Ranger is downed, all the time spent buffing it would be even more of a waste.

2. Ranger weapon skills do less damage than other classes skills because the pet is there to make up the difference. If the pet became inactive when ranger is downed… Ranger would even be weaker.

They could balance it out by increasing ranger damage by about 30% across the board. I know many Rangers would rather have that…

Well if we could perma stow our pets then it wouldn’t be an issue. Until then, we will all have to deal with pets…

Swagger.1459:

Well if we could perma stow our pets then it wouldn’t be an issue. Until then, we will all have to deal with pets…

50% of our skills require a pet so it’ll never happen. And ironically there is a bug at the moment which does permanently stow the pet. Trust me its not fun.

Why don’t ranger pets have a very low hit rate. Things that won’t ever be answered because Ranger.

Teutos.8620:

The V.8759:

WHY??

Everybody in this thread is focused on the wrong questions. The question was not, if it is fair, that ranger can still command his pets, it was why.

The answer is most likely much simpler: it just happened from a technical point of view.

I can imaging, that it comes from the difference between doing an ability yourself and commanding your pet to do so.

Thanks for actually answering my question. I seems like I unleashed an unintended furious discussion :P

Probably just a bug.

On the one hand, it should probably be fixed, on the other, rangers kinda need all the help they can get right now.

Since the pet is alive it seems proper. better question. Why do they allow stomping of downed while in mist form, stealth, etc? bit bad that you can’t defend yourself while downed for at least a CHANCE to rally.

Kitty.1502:

Why don’t ranger pets have a very low hit rate. Things that won’t ever be answered because Ranger.

Because pets work on the same bad AI system as all other NPC’s in the game, which is that they can’t cast attacks while moving. It’s one of the biggest flaws of the system, along with the horrible pathfinding.

Why can ranger pet heal faster than a pure Dps warrior can deplete down bar? Ive seen insane rapid dpwn state healing by the pets where even if you 100 blade cleave both of them, the red bar just keeps going up. Life is good for rangers when downed.

The V.8759:

being able to taunt, fear, swap, fear, downed F4 after eachother annoys me

Two fears in a row? Interesting. I wonder how that can happen?

Caedmon.6798:

Ashkew.6584:

Because everyone hates rangers and no one will ress them but there pets. But serieusly “why”? Probably because its designed to work like that. Fair? Probably not but, but i wish we didnt have downstate in the first place

Oh i wish …i wish.Downed state is still the worst of the worst kittening mechanics ive ever witnessed in an mmo,and that wont ever change.

I disagree. It adds counter play to high burst/“1 shotting,” and can also be used as an advantage for either side depending on the situation. The worst of the worst is precision and ferocity. They should provide straight up damage increases – modifiers equivalent to the average DPS increase they provide – and it means someone not running those stats doesn’t have a chance to match or exceed your damage when you’re trading a few blows. Switch RNG/luck for more skill-based combat and more defining builds. A critical hit should only be achievable with a temporary buff acquired from a trait or upgrade component.

OGDeadHead.8326:

The V.8759:

being able to taunt, fear, swap, fear, downed F4 after eachother annoys me

Two fears in a row? Interesting. I wonder how that can happen?

SweetPotato.7456:

Because all other professions have a way of interrupting when downed and this is the ranger option?

the ranger needs to have the correct pet too if they want that ability otherwise its just no use.

I’m pretty sure ranger has Thunderclap which is a daze which interrupts……. unless that doesn’t count…

It’s also very annoying that Elementalists can use their mist form when downed to escape through a gate to complete safety. I don’t understand the logic or balance :-(