Guild Wars 2

There is no reason small group allowances would turn in to a guildstomping landslide just because groups were allowed in some small form. That’s illogical and presumptuous. A 3 player group is an excellent maximum (groups of 4 or more can easier deal with being split 2v2 since they still get a guarantee with at least one buddy), and so far all of the people who have advocated for friend groups have agreed. No one has pushed for more.

I’m glad that you and your wife can enjoy every aspect of the game. Kudos to you both, I hope you have a fulfilling and wonderful life together. That doesn’t mean the rest of us feel just as happy when we go to opposite teams. We’re just not as happy when we fight each other. Besides, some of us don’t get to see our friends as much as you see your wife. With what little time we have together it’s important to play cooperatively, not antagonistically. I hope you can appreciate that lack, since I imagine that if you only got to meet up with your wife for an hour or two a week, the two of you wouldn’t feel so happy about being forced to compete over anything.

And indeed, this is chaotic, desperate, unorganized fun. That’s why we like to play Casual sPvP. That’s why we don’t like tournament PvP. Tournaments are stubborn, dry, and regimented. We like to screw around. We like to test our curiosity. We do not want to be shoved into games with try hards and win-fanatics. We just like to play.

So, please, try to believe us when we say: we do not want to see premades stomping games. No one wants to see stomping. But we also believe there exists a more reasonable concession to playing with our friends than, “tournaments or deal with it.” And if we had any inclination to believe the losses outweighed the gains, we wouldn’t push the issue. But so far as we can conceive, the losses do not outweight the gains. On the contrary, the gains far outweigh the losses for everyone, not just ourselves.

nysta.6713:

seriously. do tourny if you need to carry each other.

Seriously, how often do I have to repeat that tournaments are not an option if you’re looking for some casual pvp fun?!

Agreed, me and my friends were excited for spvp at launch and were devastated when we realized we had no control over our assigned team, playing and coordinating with your friends is much more enjoyable than competing with them(to me at least). Haven’t touched it since.

How about creating separate play types; leave one in there for new people learning to play the game and maybe add a separate" solo join only lobby" and a another lobby that allows group or solo. That way those who don’t want to face groups have two other options to play.

JonPeters.5630:

You can play with your friends via tournaments. We will continue as well to improve the ability to play with friends in pickup games, but it will always be somewhat limited because we do not want large groups of guilds pub stomping the pick up games.

So, why then are guild 5-mans allowed to pub stomp randoms in free tournies? Sounds like a contradiction to me.

Maybe, just MAYBE when paid tournaments are out this will stop, but I foresee quite a few “troll” groups going into free tournies with premades specifically to pubstomp unless the same system is applied.

After reading this all, I don’t think it is too much to ask to be able to play with 1-2 friends in regular 8v8. Yes I understand that they want to prevent a team of players joining together to steamroll other players, but as others have said, there needs to be a middle ground. I have tried everything to play with my 1 friend on here more often than not, and it has not been working for me. I cannot click on their name and “join them in pvp” and out of the last 9 matches I played with him, I was on the opposite team 7 times. I could not use the options to switch teams. With the dynamics of the game, being able to change your weapon set up, slot skills, and talents in the middle of a match, it doesn’t matter if a few friends play together. In one match in particular, I 1v1’d some ranger on my mesmer with almost no difficulty. While running to another point with my friend, we encountered the guy again, and hekittenthe both of us. While numbers matter a significant amount in this game, there can always be so much change that can offset it. Since the mist has its own talent and gear set up, why not make its own group setup where you can only group with 1-2 other people? use the queue that people have brought up. I would gladly wait if I could play with them, and in the scheme of things, it doesn’t change anything that much besides my own enjoyment of spvp. I feel cut off in many social aspects of this game when it comes to communication in this game, whether it be in spvp, or just group dynamics in general.

Also, after this most recent patch where they nerfed heartseeker, still getting hit by one of those for 13k is a little ridiculous. people may complain about 100 blades by warriors, but there are stun/root breaks for the classes that they can use to get away, and as long as it requires warriors to not move while channeling, that is totally fair cause range rapes me on my warrior. But thieves have that huge hit, can stealth out and continue to wreck face. yes they may be very week in other areas, so just balance them out.

Lastly, I am having a lot of issues with abilities going off. I would say it is lag but I am watching other people play just fine, and friends in my house playing just fine while some of my abilities decide they don’t want to work. auto attack will go off and I can do my slot skills, but weapon attacks from time to time just won’t activate. While I am having this problem, I can switch to a different weapon with no delay and attack just fine which shows me it isn’t lag on my internet. I know that this game is new and they are working on making it smoother, and I know that people are very unhappy with getting kitten on by premades from wow and swtor, but I got this game so I could play with my friends. I don’t think I should spend most of my time playing against them.

Feothyr.6072:

nysta.6713:

seriously. do tourny if you need to carry each other.

Seriously, how often do I have to repeat that tournaments are not an option if you’re looking for some casual pvp fun?!

why not? is the losing team mocked to death? (bad english is bad). no
free tourneys are there for casual gamers, you lose? you restart. what is the problem?
if you want to be more than 5, go to wvwvw. or play 8v8 and laugh while you stomp/die to your friends.
but i always suggest people to leave 8v8 and play more 5v5.

Solo pvp is not as entertaining as grp pvp. And I fear that thoese who like this way is those who spend 1h aprox a day on PvP, and now expects everyone to follow their liking.

Sure no one wants to get stomped by a full grp, but you should be able to play with your friends. Picking same server and joining just to get on different teams is tedous and not acceptable.

Solo pvp will not be entertinaing through 80 ranks I can assure you.

Shukran.4851:

why not? is the losing team mocked to death? (bad english is bad). no

~_~ I somehow get the feeling you don’t want to understand me … Tournaments are not fun, if you’re looking for some casual (<- see the emphasis on ‘casual’?) pvp, because guild groups are pubstomping everything in tournaments. I tried it a couple of times and it just sucks.

Animosity just said the same … and he’s right.

Animosity.5231:

JonPeters.5630:

You can play with your friends via tournaments. We will continue as well to improve the ability to play with friends in pickup games, but it will always be somewhat limited because we do not want large groups of guilds pub stomping the pick up games.

So, why then are guild 5-mans allowed to pub stomp randoms in free tournies? Sounds like a contradiction to me.

i started right now a tourney, i won 2 match straight easy. 2 premade men were in my team. why do you put emphasis in casual players = completely noob players? why do you think there are only premades in tourney?
if you are so unlucky sorry, but i start often tourney alone just to make something and i can’t find what’s wrong with them for casuals and for hardcore.
stop blame yourself guys and play

Shukran.4851:

i started right now a tourney, i won 2 match straight easy. 2 premade men were in my team. why do you put emphasis in casual players = completely noob players? why do you think there are only premades in tourney?
if you are so unlucky sorry, but i start often tourney alone just to make something and i can’t find what’s wrong with them for casuals and for hardcore.
stop blame yourself guys and play

Why so serious?

This isn’t about the difficulty, or the chance that We’ll run up against a premade and get stomped, or that we may not win at all. Entirely the opposite, this isn’t about winning. We put an emphasis on Casual play because Tournaments have a completely separate philosophy that we don’t wish to involve ourselves in.

Above all else, Tournaments are about playing to win. You bring your game face, you try hard, and you do the very best you can to help your team win. Bailing out of a match midway is unacceptable. Screwing around is unacceptable. Not being good enough is unacceptable. Teaching your newbie buddy how to play is unacceptable. We don’t want to disappoint our PUG teammates with our casual antics any more than they want to deal with us not taking the Tournament seriously.

For people who want to be really serious and give it their all, I think Tournaments are a fantastic place. For groups of friends that really want to show off their skills, Tournaments are a fantastic place. For anyone who really wants to prioritize winning, absolutely, put them in Tournaments. For players who like to try hard: Tournaments.

For the rest of us, for the Casual players, we don’t want to take the game so seriously. We just want to enjoy playing, without the pressure of needing to win. We just want to bring our friends in with us for good old fun times of just playing to have fun. And the Hot Join servers give us exactly that. Minus the friends part.

It’s not that we like to lose, or that we want to sabotage otherwise good games. We like to feel impartial about winning and losing. It’s very difficult to be impartial when playing a Tournament, because Tourneys are all about achieving wins. That’s why we find them wrong for Casuals.

Defjam.4192:

How about creating separate play types; leave one in there for new people learning to play the game and maybe add a separate" solo join only lobby" and a another lobby that allows group or solo. That way those who don’t want to face groups have two other options to play.

If Anet feels that the best way to handle small groups in non-tourney play is by creating servers to specifically house grouped games (though I’d still say only 3 players per group at maximum), absolutely, we are all thumbs up. Because we get what we want, and solo players get what they want, and the Tourney players can still go to Tournaments. Fun for everyone.

Pinder, there is no distinction that can be made that would allow “casual” players to group together for pub spvp, but disallow “serious” players from abusing this. That is the crux of the matter. It’s irrelevant that people don’t believe small groups of good players could cause grief to the opposing team — the possibility still exists and would be exploited to its maximum potential to farm glory.

That’s a very good point, Milo.

Rather than using it as a platform to shut down small groups, why don’t we brainstorm ways to protect PvP from that sort of exploitation, while also allowing friends to play together?

Restricting group sizes to no more than 3 players is one way to do this. Large enough to allow friends to group up. Small enough to prevent larger groups from controlling entire teams. Larger groups can split into two groups and, while they still will get put on opposite teams, at least they’ll still have some friends along.

Or you could allow friends to join in large groups, but if the group has 4 or more players, force the team scrambler to place them on separate teams at a 50/50 split in every match. Likewise, lock them onto those teams, turn off the ability for players in groups to switch sides. That way, friend/guild group are never allowed to completely control one team, and you can still scramble the rosters every match.

Speaking of which, there’s always the option for the Devs to code in antagonist modifiers that will balance players who try to override the small group system. If two small groups on the same server have players in the same guild or friends list, the game could automatically place them on opposite teams. That’s a clean way to ensure players won’t attempt to abuse the system for glory farming.

We’ve already proposed separate servers to segregate purely solo and those willing to play in small groups (I still wouldn’t advocate full teams, even if on their own servers). That way you have a much higher chance of seeing small groups on both teams. Much more difficult to abuse the system when the scales are balanced.

There’s a lot that can be done to preserve the integrity of hot-join PvP while still allowing friends to play together. And it’s true, some players will attempt to abuse the system no matter what the design. But that doesn’t make the addition impossible. It just requires the developers to be thorough with their implementation.

For groups of two players, it is so easy to switch team to get with the other as soon as there room :/ Then the teams are shuffled between maps but while the other players load there’s always spots in one team or another to switch back.

Pinder I don’t mean to be dismissive — I did read your post and I can see you put a lot of thought into it — but everything is based on the assumption that 3 organized skilled players are not enough to make a significant difference in match outcomes. I just don’t agree with this assessment. If these 3 players are also the top 3 for score in the server, it’s madness in my opinion to suggest that they can’t be auto-balanced individually.

I don’t agree, a.net. I have two friends and we don’t always play at the same time. Sometimes it’s 3 of us sometimes it’s 2. There is obviously never enough to play tournament, and there is NO other option for us to play together.

Not to worry, Milo, you aren’t dismissive. The concern is legitimate, and I understand the worries it implies. Still, if you don’t mind, I’d like to clarify two points, mostly so that I am not misunderstood :

First, I don’t presume 3 organized, skilled players cannot make a significant difference. I wholeheartedly believe they can. But I would argue that the severity of said difference, is in question. To avoid pugstomping the goal isn’t to save players from ever losing; but to prevent them from losing so terribly that they feel it was a waste of time to PvP in the first place. Especially when that loss repeats over and over. I believe this is out of the question for just 3 players. Though they might have a significant advantage, it should take many more variables to turn an advantage into a stomp.

Second, the reason I believe stomping is out of reach for just 3 players (in an 8v8 game), is because the scenario already exists. It is not currently impossible for three comrades to get on the same team. Not easy, but not impossible. If 3 players could possibly stomp a whole team, then they’d already likely be doing it. Adding persistent teams for small groups would not introduce a whole new balancing platform. If anything, it might even help balance small groups from taking over matches as it raises the chances that both teams include a small group. Or at least, with good implementation it would work this way.

As for matchmaking and stack balancing: separate issue entirely, but I feel it’s of high importance for group and solo play both. Hopefully we’ll see it soon.

Its a great idea to let casuals play with casuals. No premades, everybody is equal. Superb.
Tourneys is a great idea too.
But no middle ground, seriously? That is the worst decision ever.
Here are simply reasons why tournaments are not such a great option for me and 2-3 of my friends:
1)Its not casual.
Yes, you always can meet pug in first round, but to meet team from PVP guild is much easier and they will tear you apart. All my friends don’t wanna play it, the single word “tournament” is too scary for casuals. They want “simple BG, not tournament”.
2)Waiting time.
Why should I waste my time, waiting until it has enough teams in it, waiting 4 minutes before everyone is ready? All this waiting is just a waste of time.
3)Same map in first round.
This is something really strange and dumb. Why is it always Forest of Niflhel in 1st round? People may hate this map with time. I hope it just rotates every week or so and I just dont know about it. But random rotation would be so much better, that is pretty weird decision to start only with 1 map. Let me play what I want, not what you want me to play.

And solution is so simple: leave some servers as they are, change some so people can party together in one team. Such a no brainer, guys, seriously.

Pinder we’ll see what anet think of the situation. I’d certainly like to play with my friends in pug groups, but I also fear for collateral damage.

milo.6942:

I’d certainly like to play with my friends in pug groups, but I also fear for collateral damage.

You and I both, Milo. You and I both.

I really understand the decision that they don’t want people to take over pug spvp… but I just want to play with my friend, team up and share our experience.. we are sitting in the same room behind the computer, either killing eachother or just joining different battlegrounds.. It’s less fun.
I think the fear for Premades controlling the sPVP should be less important then friends playing together.. besides, when it’s limited to 1 or 2 friends max that can join together, what’s the harm in that?

I personally want duels, over every that’s what i want. The sPvP is completely fine in my eyes and i like how it is, i play wit ha few of my friends all the time and i don’t really care if i’m on there team or not, its for fun. I just wanna see duels!! XD even if they are only in the heart of the mist.

Anet understands PvP so much better than other MMOs. Their design decisions are common sense and vindication for people who have been pointing out how stupid and unsustainable PvP is in failed games like RIFT.

“would be really nice to have a guild que, so we can do 8v8 matches with our guild, even if it is premade vs premade only. This is GUILD wars afterall isnt it? 0.o”

This^^^^

I dont want to stomp another team with a guild pre-made, but having the ability to fill both sides of the roster with just my guild mates would make for a great guild event.

JonPeters.5630:

Remember that you can join a tournament with a partial roster and it will match you with the players necessary to fill your team while still allowing you to play on the same team as your friends.

Jon

Will there ever be an option for a closed game, where my guild can just play against each other?

I have no interest in playing against people who LIVE for PvP. I just want to PvP with a couple of friends on the SAME team against other “normal” people, not some pre-made group of teens who eat/live/sleep this game.

Not too much to ask.

Kolache.3964:

Anet understands PvP so much better than other MMOs. Their design decisions are common sense and vindication for people who have been pointing out how stupid and unsustainable PvP is in failed games like RIFT.

Games like Rift failed for reasons other than PvP.

Also, they should really just add different sPvP modes that allow grouping, or a filter to join games with grouping allowed. That way the players on both sides of the spectrum (well honestly, I think it’s just Anet on the other side) will be happy.

Josher.9612:

I have no interest in playing against people who LIVE for PvP. I just want to PvP with a couple of friends on the SAME team against other “normal” people, not some pre-made group of teens who eat/live/sleep this game.

Not too much to ask.

The obvious question here is, how do you distinguish the hardcore from the casuals? Your demands are reasonable from your perspective, but they are much more complicated from a “game design” perspective that affects everyone. Once they implement some type of player rating system, it’s likely you will be able to do tourneys with your friends vs other people that are equally as “casual”. It would be unreasonable, however, to demand that you play with your friends in random pug spvp, because the very nature of the system would encourage hardcore players to form mini teams that farm glory all day long stomping casuals. Then you would have only shot yourself in the foot by asking for it. Which is why they haven’t done it. Which is why all questions like yours are unreasonable and self-defeating.

Anet is making the big picture choice and the right choice in my opinion. You want to play with your friends then do open world rvr. The “so i cant play with my friends argument” is the one Rift listened to and smaller groups of organized guilds are still in there stomping pugs as I type this post. Pre-made vs pug should not happen under any circumstance limited or unlimited. Anet is smarter than Trion and they made the right call.

WoW allows people to enter BGs together and I never heard a complaint regarding it. Using Rift as an example is a weak argument.

The “so i cant play with my friends argument” is the one Rift listened to and smaller groups of organized guilds are still in there stomping pugs as I type this post. Pre-made vs pug should not happen under any circumstance limited or unlimited. Anet is smarter than Trion and they made the right call.

There’s the rub. By forcing small groups into PuG tournaments, Anet has not eliminated the problem, merely swept it into a different corner of the room. (Arguably) not a bad decision for hot-join PvP, as it preserves the free for all environment. (Arguably) a horrible decision for any group of 2-3 players, who are now often forced into the very situation Anet wished to prevent: larger groups stomping small groups.

For those of us who can only manage a group of 2-3 players for sPvP, this restriction is not the right choice.

WoW allows people to enter BGs together and I never heard a complaint regarding it. Using Rift as an example is a weak argument.

WoW has a massive history of PuG vs Premade rancor. It took years for their matching system to separate full-team premades from multi-small-team premades from full-randoms. Prior to that separation, Battleground Guilds ruled battlegrounds absolutely. Guilds became their own ranking system: we didn’t rate players by their ELO or Armor, we rated them by their guild.

And as the expansions came and went, this precedent slowly bled away. Nonetheless, people did complain. They complained like peons under the iron fist of a merciless lord. The PvP history of WoW and Rift are very strong examples for why Anet needs to be wary about the way they implement groups. Not that they shouldn’t implement small group support. Just that it needs to be done cautiously.

Hmm I’m with Dev, guilds turning random games into “premade” groups farm fields isn’t a good idea, but come on Y.Y, I’m trying to teach a friend that’s new to GW2, it’s a paing to find a room that we can play together, we always get on different sides, going tournament is still too early =/!

Don’t see how letting us group with 1-2 friends could be that bad if we can’t pick the server like an earlier poster requested. Kind of sucks to not be able to team up with a friend, it is fun trying to gank him all the time tho

As soon as Paid tpvp starts, free tpvp will turn into the pug town. Very few organized groups will go in. So it will be the prime place for 2-3 people to form a group and pug.

It is never a good idea to let pre-mades fight pugs. And in a game were one side only has 8 people than even just a pre-made of two can have a very large effect.

I have not had an really had an issue playing with one friend in pubs, and with the direction they are going, I’m sure I won’t have any issues with it.

Trying to pull off three friends would be quite difficult to do in a pub as it currently works however. Honestly though, the game is called “guild wars” if you like pvping, but want to pvp with more than 1 other friend but also aren’t a part of a guild that has 2 other people that want to help fill out a tournament… well, why not make use of the ability to join multiple guilds and get with a guild that does a lot of sPvP as well.

I guess a compromise if Anet really wanted to appease everyone would be to make a “free tournament” (or just the “play now” matchmaking) playlist that only accepted groups of 2 or 3 and then randomly paired up the teams of 5. Or better yet, allow anywhere between 5v5 and 8v8 in this free tournament playlist where teams are randomly comprised of two premades in various configurations.

IE
2+3 v 2+3
3+3 v 3+3
4+2 v 4+2
4+3 v 4+3
4+4 v 4+4

Rift tried to do that do that, let players form limited 2-3 person groups, this got the premades foot in the door and they sync queued multiple 3 man groups at the same time and got full pre-mades in regularly and begun the pug stomping. As such It must be completely separated from the PUGs.

You queue for pre-made and you go against other pre-made. No partial groups no one or two guys, you queue with friends and you don’t get put against a pug simple as that. It can be done but with total separation from PUGs.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

As soon as Paid tpvp starts, free tpvp will turn into the pug town. Very few organized groups will go in. So it will be the prime place for 2-3 people to form a group and pug.

Your statement presumes:

1- That all “serious” players will happily pay money to congregate upon a singular channel of PvP, which is highly implausible.

2- That organized groups as a whole wish to avoid fighting against PuGs. Which is entirely opposite from this thread’s popular consensus that, if allowed, pre-made groups of any size will invariably attempt to stomp pugs. Not all of them, but enough to ruin the game for single players.

So, no, paid tournaments will not solve any of the current issues.

Pinder.5261:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

As soon as Paid tpvp starts, free tpvp will turn into the pug town. Very few organized groups will go in. So it will be the prime place for 2-3 people to form a group and pug.

Your statement presumes:

1- That all “serious” players will happily pay money to congregate upon a singular channel of PvP, which is highly implausible.

2- That organized groups as a whole wish to avoid fighting against PuGs. Which is entirely opposite from this thread’s popular consensus that, if allowed, pre-made groups of any size will invariably attempt to stomp pugs. Not all of them, but enough to ruin the game for single players.

So, no, paid tournaments will not solve any of the current issues.

Ya it kind of will.

1) yes in fact Serious PVP’ers will be more than happy to pay money for tpvp. After all it is there that Ranking will take effect. And that’s one of the main things asked for on this forum.

2) I didn’t say some organized groups would not show up for free tpvp. After all i just said that you can form a group with 2-3 and do tpvp. Next time please read what i typed. But most real organized groups will in fact move to paid tpvp. If your going to farm Glory its better to do spvp anyway. You get way more glory that way.

So, ya, paid tournaments will in fact solve some of the current issues. And that’s if you think there is an issue. I do not think its a problem.

1- Okay, I’ll concede that point. Serious players will happily pay for tournaments. No argument there. But you go on to suggest that this will make the free tournaments more approachable for small group pugs. The division between serious and casual is not the problem at hand, the problem is that small groups are shunted into the space between full random and full teams, and have no appropriately structured environment to call their own. Taking out the portion of players who would prefer to pay in to a ranking system may weaken the symptom, but it does not resolve the problem. And this is a problem.

2- Glory is not the issue. The issue is the ability to play in the manner which makes players happiest. Some of us are happiest in a group of 2-3 friends. Some of us can only get together a group of 2-3 friends, regardless of whether we’d like a full group of 5 or not, but we try to feel happy with that.

In your words, it’s never a good idea to let pre-made groups fight PuGs. If so, that counts for small groups in tournaments as well. We can queue up as a group of 2-3 players to PuG a tournament, sure; unfortunately, that can put us up against a fully pre-formed team. And if that’s unfair for hot-join PvP, then it is also unfair for tPvP. Since some organized groups will still show up for free tPvP, then paid tournaments have not solved the issue. And the issue certainly exists.

No PvP with friends… This is just sad. You are trying to make ‘unstructured’ pvp where every pvp is structured to some degree, and nearly all joy comes from ‘structuring’ it, (meaning some cooperation and tactics). Every online shooter out there has it, mmos have it, and a bunch of devoted people who oppose it here will not help this game in the long run. The least you could do would be to give people a choice: join a server where it is possible to log as parties or have it as it is now – totally random. IYou speak about ‘majority of people’, well, I am as sure as I can that if you give players this choice you will soon have much more players joining as parties than individually.

Personally, i bought this game, expecting to be able to do things with my friends. Someone told me pvp is great here. Now i see that solo playing is great, but pvp.. sorry, sucks a bit. When I decide to play alone, i’ll go for Skyrim or something like this. There’s very little point fighting groups of other people who have no way to ‘structure’ the fight, it’s almost like playing against strong npcs/bosses. I know there are tournaments, but sorry, this is just not enough, I prefer battlefields with 20-30 people in it. Small tournaments are so… serious. Larger groups are more anonymous (even with a friend or two), more fun, just happy playing that I am looking for.

Alueri.1976:

No PvP with friends… This is just sad. You are trying to make ‘unstructured’ pvp where every pvp is structured to some degree, and nearly all joy comes from ‘structuring’ it, (meaning some cooperation and tactics). Every online shooter out there has it, mmos have it, and a bunch of devoted people who oppose it here will not help this game in the long run. The least you could do would be to give people a choice: join a server where it is possible to log as parties or have it as it is now – totally random. IYou speak about ‘majority of people’, well, I am as sure as I can that if you give players this choice you will soon have much more players joining as parties than individually.

Personally, i bought this game, expecting to be able to do things with my friends. Someone told me pvp is great here. Now i see that solo playing is great, but pvp.. sorry, sucks a bit. When I decide to play alone, i’ll go for Skyrim or something like this. There’s very little point fighting groups of other people who have no way to ‘structure’ the fight, it’s almost like playing against strong npcs/bosses. I know there are tournaments, but sorry, this is just not enough, I prefer battlefields with 20-30 people in it.

Than play wvw

wow. how did this thread get to be this long when the simple answer is: if you want to PvP on the same team with your friends then join free tournaments.

Divide the sPvP servers in two, put a new NPC in the mist and add a new rule that allows up to 8 friends to team up for sPvP. You get your hot join with friends, I get to keep my solo play hot join, everyone is happy.

two servers – one casual, one structured and able to be joined with friends on the same team. hmmm sounds a lot like HotJoin and Tournaments to me.

seriously. this thread is ridiculous to the point of bordering on absurd.

I’m unfamiliar with the tournaments. Don’t you have to play in multiple rounds in those?

and this is what this thread is really all about, isn’t it? people just don’t know.

yes, free tournaments are 3 rounds. they are far more structured than HotJoins. People actually attempt strategy and selflessness in order to win them as well. Free Tournaments >>>>>>>>> HotJoin IMO

hackks.3687:

and this is what this thread is really all about, isn’t it? people just don’t know.

yes, free tournaments are 3 rounds. they are far more structured than HotJoins. People actually attempt strategy and selflessness in order to win them as well. Free Tournaments >>>>>>>>> HotJoin IMO

Yeah I wanted to add /sarcasm to the end of my previous post but I was trying to draw out that response from you and felt it would have had a smaller chance for success. I assure you I know what a tournament is having played in many of them in real life, but back to the point. Some people want to play a quick round with their friends, spouses, etc. without feeling obligated to play through a whole tournament. Does my previous suggestion make more sense now?

wow. how did this thread get to be this long when the simple answer is: if you want to PvP on the same team with your friends then join free tournaments.

We do not all prefer tournaments. They are not an objectively superior type of play. If you enjoy them more than hot join, well that’s totally okay. But that doesn’t cut it for all of us. If we felt merrily content just playing free tournaments then we wouldn’t bother with this thread. But we are not content.

The answer seems simple because it’s the only option we’re allowed to take. That doesn’t make it a good option.

I would expect that free tpvp will get changed to the following.

Pre-made vs Pre-made (pre-made being any group starting with 3 to 5 players)
pug vs pug (1 or 2 players max allowed to queue together).

With solo and groups of 2 given the option to be queued in either mode.

I would not expect Play Now (spvp) to change.

I’m pretty casual when it comes to PvP, but I have one or two friends online a lot that I would like to play sPvP with.

It really kills the fun to get constantly autobalanced to different sides, though. I honestly can’t remember the last time I even tried PvPing with them, because of this.