Guild Wars 2

I feel like this is a proper question to ask. And before you attack me that I need to learn to play, I actually know the build and what it does.

My question is, since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing builds that are bad for the game, why is Mesmer allowed to constantly stealth and just dodge all the while pumping out insane amounts of conditions that, even if you fully go for condition removal, are simply impossible to cleanse.

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

duno against what build you played, but in general a condi mes with scepter and stealth punishes mindless spam, or to fast use of abilities

you need to play different against condi mes, than against most other speccs…, its build and gameplay variety (if you didnt know, the best way to fight a condi mes is to outrange it and to destroy the illusions as soon as the mesmer stealths)

im playing it right now.because im so sick of it.

now i have never played condi mesmer before, infact im terrible at mesmer (350+ping) so i lag and cant dodge some attacks because they are to fast no matter how early i react thanks to ping. i have won almost all my 1v1’s so far bar an engie with flamethrower…

i practically turn team fights with 6 stacks of confusion on the target and chaos storm wreaking havoc. i can even jump into the middle of it and get some shatters off because i have way to many ways to mitigate damage.

its godmode cheese cancer even necros die to me because signets cant transfer to what you cant see/blocking/invulnerable targets its a joke.

So tell me about outranging on a war (thread opener is playing war).
Thsi build is kitten build, i hate to play against it on a thief. Look at wvw roamers, its even worse there.

@Tux…., rifle and longbow, warrior has also higher mobility (with certain weapons), than condi mes

and pls keep in mind, that not every class/specc is able to fight against all kind of other classes speccs

it will get worse with chronomancer………. i can maintain 6 stacks of confusion now but after hot you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

erm.. i can reflect rifle i think and the burn from longbow i will shove back on the warrior

Lol guess the PU nerf didn’t appease everyone then. “Why does condi Mesmer exist”….really? There’s only so many builds mesmers can play (and there’s always someone complaining about every one of them). Iersonally play condi on one of my 3 mesmers and honestly it’s not this vastly OP thing if you learn all the mechanics of it. I’ve beaten them in pvp, beaten them more in wvw (because a lot of them are new to the class and just rely on stealth for a crutch). Bottom line, they can be beaten and there are ways and this is nowhere near the most OP build in the game. Despite popular belief anet can’t just nerf every aspect of Mesmer until they are back to being overall free kills lol.

ozzy.8059:

im playing it right now.because im so sick of it.

now i have never played condi mesmer before, infact im terrible at mesmer (350+ping) so i lag and cant dodge some attacks because they are to fast no matter how early i react thanks to ping. i have won almost all my 1v1’s so far bar an engie with flamethrower…

i practically turn team fights with 6 stacks of confusion on the target and chaos storm wreaking havoc. i can even jump into the middle of it and get some shatters off because i have way to many ways to mitigate damage.

its godmode cheese cancer even necros die to me because signets cant transfer to what you cant see/blocking/invulnerable targets its a joke.

This post.. Is everything wrong with the playerbase asking for nerfs.

You practically turn teamfights by.. Pressing 3 with the scepter on a target too incompetent to press dodge or carry any sort of cleanse? 6 stacks of confusion on one target is making a difference in a teamfight? Is this hotjoin?

It must be hotjoin.. If chaos storm is “wreaking havoc” in a condition build and you pressing random f-keys to beat people.

You can scream “cheese” and"cancer" all you like, but if the above are your examples of why then its fairly obvious your experiences aren’t coming from someone who fights even average players. Confusion and shatters aren’t even what makes the build decent, neither are clones.

So…. you are essentially asking, why do condi’s even exists in this game?? or better players exists?

I’ve beaten plenty of mesmers 1v1 on my ranger /warrior but they have also beaten me too…

Sometimes, the other guy is just better than you. Period.

Chokolata.1870:

I feel like this is a proper question to ask. And before you attack me that I need to learn to play, I actually know the build and what it does.

My question is, since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing builds that are bad for the game, why is Mesmer allowed to constantly stealth and just dodge all the while pumping out insane amounts of conditions that, even if you fully go for condition removal, are simply impossible to cleanse.

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

To answer your question, its because the build is smothered by myths and falsetalk than facts. Condition Mes has already been heavily nerfed and the majority of its passive play has been stripped with the removal of clone-death traits.

Here’s a tip against any Condi mes, pu or otherwise: Only one attack does burst damage and there’s only one condition you need to worry about cleansing: Torment. The only way they can do meaningful damage to an opponent that pays attention is with the scepter block/counter. Players like Ozzy shouldn’t even be able to touch you. Confusion damage should be minor in most cases.

All the stealth and other stuff is just fluff, a PU Mesmer is at a disadvantage in PvP and is one of the least useful Mesmer builds when played improperly (which is 90%) of the time. Anet doesn’t balance around duels, and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a Condi Mesmer being a threat outside of a 1v1?

Its still very powerful in WvW when roaming.

Really needs to be looked at.

ozzy.8059:

you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

Which is a major l2p issue. Players with half a brain won’t do this. If this has been your experience, you definitely haven’t been fighting good players.

skcamow.3527:

ozzy.8059:

you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

Which is a major l2p issue. Players with half a brain won’t do this. If this has been your experience, you definitely haven’t been fighting good players.

Yes because thats all that matters.

Remove it, get double dmg, leave it and let it tick? I think not.

Remove it and hopefully the larger stacks drop of because you knwo? RNG and esports makes sense.

Its stupid how SPAMMY it is.
Same goes for Engi conditions.

Your essentially clearing in the hopes of the worst one dropping of when you need it too, its just WORSE with confusion because each one hits harder the more you fail to cleanse confusion.

If they reintroduce a reliable clearing method(left to right for example), I would agree with you. But the way it is now is kittening RNG, which is downright kittened.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

ozzy.8059:

im playing it right now.because im so sick of it.

now i have never played condi mesmer before, infact im terrible at mesmer (350+ping) so i lag and cant dodge some attacks because they are to fast no matter how early i react thanks to ping. i have won almost all my 1v1’s so far bar an engie with flamethrower…

i practically turn team fights with 6 stacks of confusion on the target and chaos storm wreaking havoc. i can even jump into the middle of it and get some shatters off because i have way to many ways to mitigate damage.

its godmode cheese cancer even necros die to me because signets cant transfer to what you cant see/blocking/invulnerable targets its a joke.

This post.. Is everything wrong with the playerbase asking for nerfs.

You practically turn teamfights by.. Pressing 3 with the scepter on a target too incompetent to press dodge or carry any sort of cleanse? 6 stacks of confusion on one target is making a difference in a teamfight? Is this hotjoin?

It must be hotjoin.. If chaos storm is “wreaking havoc” in a condition build and you pressing random f-keys to beat people.

You can scream “cheese” and"cancer" all you like, but if the above are your examples of why then its fairly obvious your experiences aren’t coming from someone who fights even average players. Confusion and shatters aren’t even what makes the build decent, neither are clones.

and why am i not a free lootbag for the first time playing it? this is ranked by the way. my target does dodge the confusion sometimes if it has a dodge left after baiting using stealth then i just shatter cry of frustration and they get it anyway so…

chaos storm does cause alot of problems especially after i take away stability… and if i shove confustion on the teams target they end up killing themselves while trying to defend especially on fast casting classes

cleanse cooldowns are too long to make a difference unless its at ele level of passive+active+regen.. you also need to realise some classes rely on their utility and by taking all cleanse options they may as well afk at home because they wont be able to kill anything.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Chokolata.1870:

I feel like this is a proper question to ask. And before you attack me that I need to learn to play, I actually know the build and what it does.

My question is, since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing builds that are bad for the game, why is Mesmer allowed to constantly stealth and just dodge all the while pumping out insane amounts of conditions that, even if you fully go for condition removal, are simply impossible to cleanse.

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

To answer your question, its because the build is smothered by myths and falsetalk than facts. Condition Mes has already been heavily nerfed and the majority of its passive play has been stripped with the removal of clone-death traits.

Here’s a tip against any Condi mes, pu or otherwise: Only one attack does burst damage and there’s only one condition you need to worry about cleansing: Torment. The only way they can do meaningful damage to an opponent that pays attention is with the scepter block/counter. Players like Ozzy shouldn’t even be able to touch you. Confusion damage should be minor in most cases.

All the stealth and other stuff is just fluff, a PU Mesmer is at a disadvantage in PvP and is one of the least useful Mesmer builds when played improperly (which is 90%) of the time. Anet doesn’t balance around duels, and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a Condi Mesmer being a threat outside of a 1v1?

and yet people die very fast to me, wonder why…..

Chokolata.1870:

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

You can add the Guardian to that perspective. I’ve been playing against a competent Mesmers at roaming and in duels in WvW and as a Guardian is nigh impossible not only to beat a confusion Mesmer but also to make a signifcative dent on their HP.

I’ve fighting tough Eles and I’ve lost after a while, due their superior sustain or just because they were better players, but not before exhausting my skills and making serious hurt over their HP. Against confussion Mesmers is always the same: in less than 60 seconds I’m dead, will all my cleanses depleted and the mesmer having 75%+ of their HP. I had much better chances in WvW playing against a condi Thief or even against 2 power thieves at the same time than against a single confusion Mesmer.

Stealth alone can be a problem (I can`t do damage without a target) and never understand why is so spread over several clssses (outside Thieves). But confusion just shouldn’t exist; is designed to force players to not use their skills, a high reward/no risk tool which can be spammed mindless.

ozzy.8059:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Chokolata.1870:

I feel like this is a proper question to ask. And before you attack me that I need to learn to play, I actually know the build and what it does.

My question is, since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing builds that are bad for the game, why is Mesmer allowed to constantly stealth and just dodge all the while pumping out insane amounts of conditions that, even if you fully go for condition removal, are simply impossible to cleanse.

This is from a Ranger and Warrior perspective.

To answer your question, its because the build is smothered by myths and falsetalk than facts. Condition Mes has already been heavily nerfed and the majority of its passive play has been stripped with the removal of clone-death traits.

Here’s a tip against any Condi mes, pu or otherwise: Only one attack does burst damage and there’s only one condition you need to worry about cleansing: Torment. The only way they can do meaningful damage to an opponent that pays attention is with the scepter block/counter. Players like Ozzy shouldn’t even be able to touch you. Confusion damage should be minor in most cases.

All the stealth and other stuff is just fluff, a PU Mesmer is at a disadvantage in PvP and is one of the least useful Mesmer builds when played improperly (which is 90%) of the time. Anet doesn’t balance around duels, and when’s the last time you’ve heard of a Condi Mesmer being a threat outside of a 1v1?

and yet people die very fast to me, wonder why…..

Because your MMR has plummeted to the point where you’re fighting F2P players just entering the PvP scene.

yeah keep defending this build all you want its just very common in wvw and pvp for no reason at all.

This build is a non-issue. Any halfway competent team makes it totally worthless. Power Mesmer in multiple variations is far stronger than any condie build Mesmer has. The only place condie Mesmer is stronger is in dueling, so quit dueling and try playing a real match once in a while.

Maybe 1 out of every 10 mesmers runs condie at my level of mmr in pvp. If you’re seeing tons of them, you obviously just haven’t risen out of the hotjoin-hero level of mmr.

then you wont mind if it gets nerfed into the ground then?

ozzy.8059:

then you wont mind if it gets nerfed into the ground then?

We need more build diversity, not less.

ozzy.8059:

then you wont mind if it gets nerfed into the ground then?

Why would you want a build to get nerfed to the ground just because you cannot grasp the simple fact that guild wars 2 pvp is not a 1v1 game?

but if it is so bad and a detriment to your team wouldn’t you not want people to use it?

Every class should be able to run a condi build.

That said, condi pu mes is the epitome of ‘low risk high reward’.
Honestly it’s not even a huge issue in PvP but it is pretty much single-handedly killing WvW roaming and seen as PvP balance is the Anets love-child it’s probably healthy to have this discussion here.

ozzy.8059:

but if it is so bad and a detriment to your team wouldn’t you not want people to use it?

That’s like saying “nerf Fresh Air Ele more, it’s subpar so we should nerf it to encourage more people to run d/d”.

I’m sure I don’t need to explain to you how idiotic that statement is.

Novuake.2691:

skcamow.3527:

ozzy.8059:

you will be able to maintain 12 stacks of confusion and watch your enemy kill its self.

Which is a major l2p issue. Players with half a brain won’t do this. If this has been your experience, you definitely haven’t been fighting good players.

Yes because thats all that matters.

Remove it, get double dmg, leave it and let it tick? I think not.

Remove it and hopefully the larger stacks drop of because you knwo? RNG and esports makes sense.

Its stupid how SPAMMY it is.
Same goes for Engi conditions.

Your essentially clearing in the hopes of the worst one dropping of when you need it too, its just WORSE with confusion because each one hits harder the more you fail to cleanse confusion.

If they reintroduce a reliable clearing method(left to right for example), I would agree with you. But the way it is now is kittening RNG, which is downright kittened.

Uh.. Well the thing is that it could.. Be avoided.

Take a second and clear out thoughts of “spam” and “cancer” and analyze what the class is actually doing. Ima explain it assuming you’re actually open-minded about learning to beat the build rather than mindless ranting/complaining.

- Damage sources: Scepter block (6x torment) – Confusion (average of 3 persistent stacks. 6 with a full scepter channel)

- What can they do in stealth Hide and heal and.. That’s about it.

What does this mean?

You may not be able to kill the Condi mes, but with even the slightest thought to how you play and how the build does damage will keep them from killing you.

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

Any competent necro is an instant death sentence for a condie Mesmer. Engaging a necro is a fantastic way to get murdered really fast.

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Well the thing is that it could.. Be avoided.

Take a second and clear out thoughts of “spam” and “cancer” and analyze what the class is actually doing. Ima explain it assuming you’re actually open-minded about learning to beat the build rather than mindless ranting/complaining.

You may not be able to kill the Condi mes, but with even the slightest thought to how you play and how the build does damage will keep them from killing you.

You are assuming I am just ranting?

I gave good reason. Reasonable argument.

So you think being near unkillable 1v1 and having so much free pressure with zero risk is balanced?

Ill say this again, ill be fine with it if condi cleanse was more reliable.

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

A Condi Mesmer typically has no stuns and why the kitten would you blow Distortion while standing in a Well.

Every sentence you type further proves you haven’t actually played a Condi Mesmer (or indeed Mesmer in general) like you claimed.

.

Novuake.2691:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. Well the thing is that it could.. Be avoided.

Take a second and clear out thoughts of “spam” and “cancer” and analyze what the class is actually doing. Ima explain it assuming you’re actually open-minded about learning to beat the build rather than mindless ranting/complaining.

You may not be able to kill the Condi mes, but with even the slightest thought to how you play and how the build does damage will keep them from killing you.

You are assuming I am just ranting?

He said he’s explaining it assuming you’re open-minded about learning to beat the build, instead of mindless ranting.

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

What condie build are you running where the mesmer has Stealth/stuns/high condies/high stealth uptime/ and great defense.

Because You can only pick 3 traitlines that I know of, unless you decided to play on a server not supported by this dev team..

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

2.5 Never hit the block. Illusionary counter (scepter 2) applies 5 stacks of torment. Most players in my mmr (not high or anything but this is consistent) just don’t hit it. No dodging required as the mesmer can’t attack outside instant skills (like shatters) for the duration. Animation is a raised forearm.

1 and 2/2.5 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Embolism.8106:

He said he’s explaining it assuming you’re open-minded about learning to beat the build, instead of mindless ranting.

Missread. Apologies.

Solori.6025:

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

What condie build are you running where the mesmer has Stealth/stuns/high condies/high stealth uptime/ and great defense.

Because You can only pick 3 traitlines that I know of, unless you decided to play on a server not supported by this dev team..

could always i dono use a shatter … every mesmer build has a stun in the form of diversion.

ozzy.8059:

Solori.6025:

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

What condie build are you running where the mesmer has Stealth/stuns/high condies/high stealth uptime/ and great defense.

Because You can only pick 3 traitlines that I know of, unless you decided to play on a server not supported by this dev team..

could always i dono use a shatter … every mesmer build has a stun in the form of diversion.

since when has daze=stun…

Are you sure you play GW2?

yeah i think i am and after looking at some post history i can see why some people will defend anything mesmer….. you can look at mine i cry alot and i concider myself a below average player

but i can still kill anything and hold a point on condi mesmer hmmm….

You’re making an awful lot of claims about how strong you are with this build ozzy. How about you make us a video so we can all have a good chuckle?

…

4 things to see and avoid:
iCounter – insanely easy to see and not proc
Confusing Images – obvious animation
Shatters – easy to avoid with a tiny bit of brainpower
iDuelist Unload – easy to avoid/LoS

Everything else is fluff – illusion auto attacks, ineptitude/BD confusion procs and so on. The damage is easily mitigated.

If you avoid iCounter you will never be hit with double figure stacks of torment. If you avoid confusing images, same for confusion.
If someone blows 3+ shatters in a row just to condi burst you, they’re ripe for the counter attack.

Most mesmers shatter predictably so can be anticipated and dodged/blocked/evaded if you know how they will play. I’ve been in many “stalemates” with mesmers in the past (on different builds – power and condi and different classes) because we could easily read each others shatters and avoid them.

Oh nevermind that:
Confusion – if ~5+ stacks, don’t spam skills. Cleanse or kite.
Torment – if <~3 stacks, ignore. If more, cleanse or be careful with unnecessary movement.

I wish you could counter insane burning/poison/bleed stacks in the same way.

Fay.2357:

You’re making an awful lot of claims about how strong you are with this build ozzy. How about you make us a video so we can all have a good chuckle?

Every time you have asked someone to do this, they never do.
I wonder why :P

Also @Ozzy

When you are dazed you can still dodge roll, use utilites, and move.

So I’m not sure how people are sitting still long enough for you to ramp up 12 stacks of confusion unless they are AFK.
Then again if all you do is go to hotjoin games. I could see the issue.
Lastly.
When a build is grossly OP and can actually benefit a team most of the top teams will find some way to exploit it.
When was the last time you saw a condie mes in a tpvp team?

TheGuy.3568:

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

1 and 2 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

---

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Coming from a war/thief/ele/engi player (assuming that’s what you play based on your sig), I deeply appreciate your post.

TheGuy.3568:

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

1 and 2 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

---

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

+1

This is the best advice anyone could give. It has nothing to do with “defending everything Mesmer” and everything to do with providing the community with proper information rather than misinformed ranting and hopefully creating better players in the long run.

The better question is why does easy effective exist in the first place? Oh right to “get casuals in the game.” Instead of making a game mode like ARAM that is for casuals.

P.S Get good PU mesmers and mesmer mains in general, your class never took skill to begin with

Like I don’t know why a Mesmer is talking about balance when it’s been an all time easy and effective class. But that’s okay lets dumb down all classes like 40 second last stand and 20 second shield stance and make them sink to ele ranger mesmer guard easy to play.

There will come a lot of new skills with the update. Enough to learn. To be good on your class you need to understand every other one. A lot of new animations and stuff comming and what makles players really good is the movment and use of the map. I dont think its getting to easy to play.
I mean, look at Rom, playing a, in terms of skills you can use, easy class. Still he stands out by doing a jumping puzzle while he kills you (happend to me -_-)

Curunen.8729:

TheGuy.3568:

READ AND LEARN or Continue to whine

I am going to be a bit rude with this post because the counters are really simple.

Since the numerous passive traits were removed from this build (it has been nerfed into the ground for a while mind you) this is strictly a l2p issue. I mean this not as an insult but cold hard fact.

1. For the shatters kill the clones. They will have no uptime vs any competent cleaver. Clones dead equal no shatter burst.

2. Dodge the laser. Confusing Images has a 2 second cast if you dodge when you see it coming or on the first hit you will get very little of it.

1 and 2 alone and you have avoided most of the damage that could have been done to you hooray!

---

3. Bring a cleanse. This is common sense but mesmer doesn’t have much in the way of cover condis. Application can be high but not lasting.

4. Time your attacks. This is common sense. Condi mesmer pushes button spamming. Confusion and torment will not tick like a burn. You end up killing yourself by just spamming skills.

5. For PU apply condis. PU mesmers generally have weak condition management (vs Inspiration which have strong but weak stealth if any at all). If you apply condis many will have to back off.

6. STOP DUELING wait I forgot something STOP DUELING LIKE A NOOB. A good team or even a pug will have a guard or ele or inspiration mesmer than can clear condis for the group. If they are doing their job due to the lack of cover condis mesmer conditions are on the easy side to handle.

7. Generosity is your best friend. Much like Burn guard condi mesmer is weak at covering for itself so sending back the confusion and torment is pretty simple.

8. Call Target. Most condi mesmers will not stand up to spike for long if at all. Ctrl + T and have your team just burst.

9. Last but not least there is not much room to nerf it. Condi mesmer is actually one of the weakest condi builds. It has none of the burst of burn and none of the cover of engi and necro. It is hard countered (very hard) by signet necro and AoE. It has been nerfed of every passive condi application (confusion damage has been nerfed too). It is nearly a pure skill based build as in literally there are no lucky procs or on crit traits. The mesmer did all the work.

I can understand your point but this build will catch a bad player “slipping” every single time. A good player knows all of this already.

Now you know how to beat a condi mes. Your welcome.

Coming from a war/thief/ele/engi player (assuming that’s what you play based on your sig), I deeply appreciate your post.

Not going to lie they tell you to play to build to figure out where it is weak. So I did for 2 months with no PU CS or MtD. Eventually you just see all the gaps. Illusionary Counter (which I legit forgot because I haven’t seen anyone fall for this outside aoe spam in I do not know how long). The Animation is obvious. If hand is up do not touch the mesmer.

Thief – play your regular role. You can use lb to kill of the clones (they have little to no health). The is not sword Mes so a well planned spike will not be met with invul-> stealth -> invul. Plan your spike expect the shatter invul (distortion) and just make sure you have shadow step for cleanse (should have it anyway).

Warrior – current axe/sh + GS should not be losing to this at all.

Engi – Rifle/Nade (my beloved main) weak to condis but has more than enough cleave to kill the clones and cc → burst.

My ele has been shelved for years now. I have conscience. Ele has enough sustained, clearing, and pressure to kill this build or to simply outlast it. In a group setting I have yet to meet a competent ele who just rolled over to this. Much like guardian you can clear faster than the mesmer can apply large stacks (which it won’t if you are watching animations).

Nier.8741:

The better question is why does easy effective exist in the first place? Oh right to “get casuals in the game.” Instead of making a game mode like ARAM that is for casuals.

P.S Get good PU mesmers and mesmer mains in general, your class never took skill to begin with

Like I don’t know why a Mesmer is talking about balance when it’s been an all time easy and effective class. But that’s okay lets dumb down all classes like 40 second last stand and 20 second shield stance and make them sink to ele ranger mesmer guard easy to play.

Sounds like somebody is a bit salty after being placed face down in the dirt a few times after encountering a Mesmer…

Condi mesmers aren’t really ideal for sPvP. Sure, if you give them enough time, they are a fairly strong dueling class. But they are extremely slow in practical utility, and time is of essence in every game.

If you take 1-2 minutes to outduel someone and decap a point, its really inefficient and can be really bad against more mobile teams.

For most solo queue games, the stealth, mobility, and the use of portal far outweighs any other builds/traits mesmer has. I cannot tell you the amount of times I’ve created mismatches just through the use of portal alone.

For example: Forest of Nifthel, I invis to enemy home point and lay down a portal. Next, I pop out of invis to steal the boss. Then, I run to keep (while luring the rest of the enemy team with me) and watch their home point. As soon as everyone leaves, I portal back to their home point and cap it. Next, I wait for 1-2 enemy members to realize their home is being taken and run from keep back to home. Finally, I portal back and help team stomp keep (which is now usually a 4v3 mismatch).

This alone creates a 60+ point swing within the first minute, and does much more than any condi mesmer build that takes 2 minutes to kill something.

See most people have assumed that I am either new at the game or completely oblivious to how Mesmer works. Neither is the case. I have quite a lot of games played. The issue is that the build can pump up so many conditions that I can’t keep up and simply run out of CDs to burn.

I am constantly being pressured by 6-7+ stacks of both torment and bleeding cleanse after cleanse alongside poison, burning and other fluff you mentioned. In the last game I played I was on my Ranger with the survival power build, which has as good condition removal as one can get on a Ranger, and after burning all my CDs to condi cleanse I was left exposed and my HP dropped from 100% to 20% within 3-4 seconds. I simply ran out of CDs. And I did not use my CDs to burn fluff as you have said.

So, my question from start is:

- Since Anet is very heavy handed in nerfing obnoxious spam builds, why does this exist where someone can just keep dodging, stealthing and spamming conditions at an insane amount.

People are assuming that you’re either new or oblivious because there are obvious and direct counters to the stuff you’re whining about. Since you obviously either don’t know them or are unwilling to use them, there’s a limited number of conclusions we can draw about you.

abc and fay were right on about necromancers countering condi mes and most run pu. Power wells, cele sig and even MM are effective but how you’d approach the engagement will vary by build.

No need to nerf mesmers.