Guild Wars 2

People seem to mainly be concerned with thieves and while I can see the logic behind the complaints (1shot from stealth outside human reaction time is not fun) they are also squishy and not particularly useful in groups.

Warriors on the other hand just seem like god mode to me (I play Mesmer/Necro)… 100 skills gives ridiculous 1shot potential, they seem very tanky and hard to kill, they have alot of cc, they can easily run away from you and if you do down them they can just resurrect themselves and get back to the pain train. About 1/2 of everyone I see in sPVP is a warrior. Why does nobody talk about this, what am I missing?

All this said I’m still a noob at this game, but I am/have been a top player in various other games (like dota2). Any insights on why warriors arent godmode imba would be appreciated.

100b needs 3 things to make it work. Frenzy, Bull Rush, and Stability. Without those 100b really isn’t that strong and you won’t ever instantly kill someone.

It’s the definition of a gimmick.

Thieves on the other hand can land a steal + C&D + backstab, do more damage, and not require any utility skills.

And warriors can’t easily run away. All charges/leaps are affected by cripple/chill. While teleporting is not.

But mainly warriors are very straight forward and their attack animations are over the top because it was one of the first classes developed.

Like eviscerate. Is there really a need to do a triple salchow before cutting your head off?

I honestly don’t know where to start with your post. Do you really play a mesmer and think warriors are strong?

One hundred blades is useless outside bullrush+frenzy.

Not very tanky at all. If a warrior wants to go ‘tanky’ (which is actually not possible) he ends up hitting for nothing. (unlike guardian…)

You’re probably thinking of a hammer warrior in regards to cc. Warriors have a few knockdowns, but the timer is fairly long. Same amount off cc as an elemetalist.

Easily run away? maybe with greatsword spec+ sword in 2ndty.

Resurrect themselves? haha. only if you leave them alone for 20 seconds after they die.

The reason they arnt godmode…..is that they are vulnerable to all cc. You put them more than 300 units from a target they do 0dps. Everyone else can kill at range. So considering the amount of snares in this game any decent player (half decent) can keep a warrior off them all the time.

You seem to think warriors have access to all their weapons and traits at once.

Well, mostly because ANet made it clear they’re happy with where Warriors are right now balance-wise. They feel the class is balanced. So everyone else is pretty content to leave Warriors alone as a “yardstick” and try and put their own classes to be balanced in line with them. At least that’s my interpretation.

Or possibly because Thieves are so insanely over the top right now that very few people even notice warriors any more. It’s like having one eye looking at the sun, and another at a candle. You won’t give a toss about the candle until you can stop looking at the sun. Thieves are the sun.

warriors will vehemently defend that they are OP

so will thieves

difference is

wait…no real difference.

nerf warriors lol

Bull’s Rush is particularly easy to dodge. With Frenzy it’s a bit more difficult, but still doable. Not to mention, a stun break at that point will save you from most of the damage and many instant cast skills can be used to mitigate the damage beyond that while knocked down.

I’m much more concerned with a Shatter Mesmer who can pull their combo every 12 seconds then a 100B Warrior who can do theirs every… 60 seconds? Thieves aren’t really an issue either, it’s just people are getting bursted within the initiative window because they have no health.

Warrior its self is not OP, it is actually very balanced, however, the problem lies within a buff not the class itself – Quickness. And yes this applies to every class that has quickness, it is a broken mechanic, why they added this t the game is beyond me. If quickness was removed most of the QQ would cease.

The truth is…warrior survivability (when specced glass canon) is a bit high.
Thief survivability (with the amount of damage they can deal) is INSANELY high.
Mesmers are also right up there with thieves in the “needing-nerfed” department.

Dying to a warrior is a l2p issue. My only comparison is how squishy on “normal” classes (ie not thief/mesmer) when I’m glass canon.

That being said…dying to a warrior is a l2p issue (or a spec issue). Dying to a thief is not. Dying to a thief in 2 seconds when he gap closed you from 900+ and cloaked/backstabbed you is insane. Rolling up on a mesmer is also insane. Even IF you manage to get them down (that is, they dont run away, they don’t crush you in a matter of mere seconds [ie they are bad], and MOA is on cooldown), you can just outright plan on spending an extra minute getting a stomp off and being killed by one of their buddies that just so happen to be rolling by in that time period anyway.

It’s broken — balance is broken — the game is broken — we’re waiting patiently for the game to be fixed.

TLDR: there are much bigger things to qq about right now than warriors — which are arguably balanced, but need some tweaks here and there.

IMO, Warriors, Elementalist, and Rangers seem to be the most balanced classes. The reason people complain about Thieves is because they can do insane damage, while still having the best escape tools in the game. Warriors can try and do similar burst to a thief, but then they drop as fast as their target, because they have no escape tools with that build.

why we dont talk about Warriors… because they are balanced and not really strong if you know what your doing..

now that they nerfed retaliation two times which only does 250 damage anyway they can start giving the same treatment to quickness if balance is the purpose.

You play a mesmer, and warriors are hard? I too play a mesmer… nothing is hard.. sure something can kill you, but classes are only as hard as YOU allow them to be. Every now and then a class will get the drop on you but come on. NO class needs to be whined about, it isnt helping the game. did any of you ever think that if you stop whining about losing to someone because you havent figured out how to handle them or yourself when facing them. and just let the dev’s focus on things that are broken, maybe they would fix those things and you would have more working mechanics and things would become less hard?

thudcrash.3065:

I too play a mesmer… nothing is hard

Top competitive streamers seem to disagree with you. They think mesmer vs thief 1v1 is 50/50 (Source: Xee, Team Paradigm).

ehtom.5047:

thudcrash.3065:

I too play a mesmer… nothing is hard

Top competitive streamers seem to disagree with you. They think mesmer vs thief 1v1 is 50/50 (Source: Xee, Team Paradigm).

Just because I dont win all the time doesnt mean its hard ;3 it just means I was out-played,
and 50-50 are good odds.

It is of my opinion that 100b does too much damage, however that doesn’t really make warriors OP. Compared to thieves, warriors are extremely predictable.

I played a Necro first then Mesmer in tPvP in this game, so it’s interesting to hear you have trouble with warriors as these two classes. For the Necromancer, despite the issues that plague it, should have no trouble with the infamous 100b combo. Even if your stun breaks are on CD, even if you don’t even have one equipped (what are you doing..), you can go into DS despite being stun or KD’d and fear them away when they’re channeling 100b.

Mesmers? Mirror Images, Decoy, and Blink, they all break stun, they’re all under a minute CD. Let’s have a hypothetical situation where again, these abilities are all on CD. You still have Phase Retreat, 8s CD (5s if traited) that ports you back. Yes, again, you can use this while stunned meaning the warrior is now flailing his blades at air, not you. Also, Mesmers kite better than any ranged, so not sure what’s happening here. Once you do get them downed, you can use Distortion while mid-stomp to make yourself invul to their hammer toss. If you let them vengeance, well they actually have to kill someone to rally otherwise they’ll falter at some point.

Not to mention, if 2/3 of their utilities are Bulls Charge and Frenzy, they have jack kitten when it comes to condition removals, which is exactly the strength of the classes you play.

This is from my experience from playing thieves. Thieves on the other hand drop their burst in a much shorter span of time than warriors. For Backstab specs, you’re comparing a full channel to one burst hit that comes near instantly after a Steal port. For the (now nerfed) Pistol Whip, the stun is part of the channel and was only extremely brutal when pairing it with Quickness meant getting chain locked to death. Not to mention the thief also has quite a few shadowsteps (instant and usable anytime) to burn mid Pistol Whip to ensure their target does not get away, the warrior cannot do this with 100b.

Both are pretty cheese in their damage, but one is way more manageable to avoid than the other.

ehtom.5047:

100 skills gives ridiculous 1shot potential, they seem very tanky and hard to kill, they have alot of cc, they can easily run away from you and if you do down them they can just resurrect themselves and get back to the pain train.

They aren’t all of that at once.

Also, people are simmering down on complaining about 100B combos because, in my opinion, it’s the easiest gimmick in the game to avoid. I refuse to use it as a warrior, and typically trash other warriors who do.

I honestly think people don’t complain about Warriors as much because besides the gimmicky stuff, you see what they are doing. It isn’t like you get backstabbed out of nowhere for 15k and die. It isn’t like you feel helpless against endless clones/phantasms. I don’t think people feel out of control of their character/the situation against Warriors, so they can’t pinpoint a huge complaint (besides gimmicks).

The mesmer shatter build is like being able to do HB+frenzy every 15 seconds.

You should probably complain more about that OP.

Because in a TPvP setting they’re pretty poo?
Because all the top teams dropped wars like a bad habit from their roster?
Because once people discovered the dodge button they learned how to completely negate warriors single dangerous spec?

And because warriors don’t get to run 30/30/30/30/30 while using a hammer/GS/sword/axe/Mace/shield at the same time in order to accomplish what you state in the OP.

Braxxus.2904:

Because in a TPvP setting they’re pretty poo?
Because all the top teams dropped wars like a bad habit from their roster?
Because once people discovered the dodge button they learned how to completely negate warriors single dangerous spec?

And because warriors don’t get to run 30/30/30/30/30 while using a hammer/GS/sword/axe/Mace/shield at the same time in order to accomplish what you state in the OP.

Interesting that you think this… The only competitive team I know of is team paradigm from watching their streams. They have a 100skills warrior. You’re missing the point that the game is not 1v1 – if someone is otherwise disabled by someone else, you can come along and 100skills them 100-0 when they are helpless.

This is where burst damage is utterly insane – quickly taking someone out in a teamfight situation, not 1v1s which never happen anyway.

Please leave exaggerations at the door, as they do not provide any positive contribution to the discussion at hand.

If 100B brings you from full to dead, you were either chain CC’d so it hit you the entire duration, or they used a 60 second cooldown. You also have be a pretty hard glass cannon spec. I’ve reacted slowly to a 100B combo on my warrior, said “Whoops” out loud, used Endure Pain, then killed said warrior.

The game has lots of stun/root breaks, and if you assume that you’re in a team situation, either the Warrior also blew Stability (we’re getting up to a lot of abilities to support this insane burst) or your team should be jumping on said Warrior with CC.

This discussion has been done to death re: 100B. People aren’t talking about it because it is what it is, and it’s highly counterable. If a team coordinates and uses it against you at an appropriate time, kudos to them for pulling off burst.

ehtom.5047:

Interesting that you think this… The only competitive team I know of is team paradigm from watching their streams.

You’re not really paying attention:

" “Spoh” – Is an Ex-Professional WoW player, where he played for Evil Geniuses’ World of Warcaft arena team through 2007-2008. With a 1st place MLG San Diego 2008 win as well as top placements in a multitude of other major tournaments.

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/spohtv
Currently Focusing on Engineer

“Xee” – A former Rank 1 WoW player, widely known on the US BG9 as Jhazy. He was also the PvP officer of Condemned where he helped develop Condemned into the best PvP oriented guild in numerous games.

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/jhaxe
Currently Focusing on Mesmer

“Phantaram” – A seasoned gamer, who has been following E-Sports since Halo 1. Phantaram has topped charts and has consistently been one of the best in numerous games such as Starcraft 2, WoW and HoN.

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram
Currently Focusing on Elementalist

“Pookz” – A widely recognized player from the competitive WoW scene. He played professional WoW arena for SK-Gaming and Evil Geniuses. He’s had multiple 1st place finishes including an MLG Championship, a Blizzard North American Invitational Championship and more recently was a finalist at the Blizzcon 2012 World Finals.

Currently Focusing on Guardian, Mesmer, Ranger and Thief

“Mwiff” – Is a very experienced gamer, with vast expertise in MMO genre games. He was the team leader for the United States Ragnarok Online 2007 champions who went to Korea to compete in the Ragnarok Online World Championships.

Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/itsmwiff
Currently Focusing on Necromancer and Thief "

No warrior.

Thanks for the list!

Yeah! I hope you are happy now, now 100b is usless.

The warrior damage is no longer any good, i hope you are really happy!

REALLY! NERF WARRIORS!

I played warrior from lvl 1 till lvl 27, now they dont do damage anymore! do you think a warrior can kill an Engineer, Earth Ele or Guardian 1 on 1?

What happened to 100b today? I see no patch notes.

Why the hell is a Mesmer complaining about Warriors? Seriously Mesmer beats everything 1v1. Takes no skill to be one tbh, just learn to play.

Warriors aren’t that strong.

They’re among the worst duelists in the game at the moment for a variety of reasons, poor bunkers because they lack protection and regen, and average/slightly above-average team fighters depending on build.

So tired of people who play classes that are tailored to other playstyles complaining about class they don’t play and classes that are totally different from their own. When I play warrior, I never use frenzy. I mainly use HB when I suicide for my team into a point and get 13 stacks of might + HB in the middle of it and I can usually get all of them down to low health and easily finishable. I have a lot more fun with whirlwind and trail of sword or whatever it is.

HB is so easy to avoid because the person gets rooted, so all u have to do is step away and you’re fine. All of the immos stuns etc that warriors have are pretty annoying in combination with HB, but it comes with the class.

Dodge Bull’s Rush, CC the Warrior, stun-break and dodge. By far the easier class to counter. They really aren’t a problem. Pro tip: dodge to the front or back of the Warrior. Going to the sides will still get you hit since 100B is a decent sized cone. Absolutely the definition of a gimmick, and exceedingly easy to beat.

Thieves, however, are another story. You could just be running over to a node, not see the Thief behind you, and suddenly you’re dead. They didn’t even use utility skills to do it, and they now have whatever they got from Steal to use on the next poor schmuck they target. Still avoidable when you see it coming, but requires no real effort, or CDs on the Thieve’s part. 100b may do more than 10k damage, but it’s over at LEAST a 1.5 second period. Thieves do it all at once.

Getting beaten by a Warrior is a good sign you are a complete terribad disaster awfulnub of rock bottom faildom.

Warrior isn’t any harder than Queensdale Ettins once you know its moves.

Warrior is a skill gate profession.

I think you need to actually play one. They’re a low skill ceiling class that coasts against normal players, but are next to worthless in higher tier play, as far as playing a role goes.

Just get some more hours under your belt and come back to the topic later. I’m sure you’ll be amazed you ever thought Warriors were ever a threat to you. They’re the worst 1v1 class, contrary to what you’d expect, and 2v1 they melt very easily.

Ah yes, the Warrior is OP thread.

The old 100b combo warrior build is a joke if you have … a fear… stability… any cleanse… a knockback… any block… moa… root… and the list goes on. It only works if you have cooldowns missing, and they catch you at a bad time.

The CC-stun warrior is a great support/control class, and its a pain in the kitten to deal with…. but 1v1 will lose most of the time.

The bleed-burn warrior can be dangerous, but lacks overall dps output that other classes get, plus condi builds never are very effective vs. condi removal.

The vulnerability axe build can be dangerous, but again lacks dps output and survivability.

Warriors can DO a lot of cool things, but all of them seem to be fairly balanced. You are trading damage for survivability and vice versa.

When you kill a warrior, make sure you finish him, because if he downs you and revenge procs (or they trait it to 100%), you just look silly.

I haven’t had problems vs. theifs, although they are annoying jumping around. But maybe thats because my build counters them well or they are squishy.

Mesmer are the number one OP class right now, I am about 50-50 vs them, but some just wreck me and I can’t do anything about it.

“Why does nobody talk about Mesmers?” should be the title of this thread.

Nobody talks about Warriors because they’re fine. Is this one of those things where the class you play is getting too much heat so you point the finger somewhere else?

100 Blades is the only burst spec warriors have and is far less effective and way more predictable than anything a burst spec thief can do. I’ll admit burst specs can be pretty annoying for most players but warriors are weak sauce as far as burst goes and look like paper compared to a tank guardian so yeah……..try harder

The real issue is Quickness, with Thiefs, Warriors, Rangers and Engineers. Without quickness all of those are fine.
Only once Quickness has been dealth with, one will be able to determine if the escape abilities of Thief and Mesmer are too much.

An in depth discussion of Quickness is found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Lets-talk-Quickness/first#post408360

Fiesbert

The real issue is Quickness, with Thiefs, Warriors, Rangers and Engineers. Without quickness all of those are fine.

Actually without frenzy the warrior is completely kittened since the class seems to have been balanced around every build having frenzy on their utility bar by default. I hate frenzy for this reason and this reason alone and wish it was removed purely so that ANet might actually fix the class as a whole instead of letting it get carried vs bads by 1 ability. Would be far better to have the class be decent in all situations rather than terrible everywhere except for a single gimmicky piece of poo.

Warriors are only a threat if you’re occupied with another opponent imo. If they catch you with a bull rush while your pants…err…cooldowns are down, the fight gets ugly quick. Thieves though…I hate thieves.

You talk like 100B is the only ability a Warrior has. Thats plain wrong:

• Warriors have other weapons
• 100B pressures the enemy, move or eat a lot of damage, if it isn’t damaging its CC by forcing your enemy to move
• there are abilites besides Frenzy that allow you to get 100B through

Don’t be so narrow minded, Frenzy is NOT necessary, its cheap. You are even so used to its cheap gameplay that you became unable to play without it. There are 4 classes without Quickness (not counting the elite skills of Guardian and Mesmer) and they are far from unplayable, although they are at a disadvantage due to their quicknessless.

@Fiesbert

You’ve sold me. Your argument about Mesmers and Guardians being at a disadvantage because they don’t have quickness is just too compelling and is obviously representative of what we see being dominant.

Arguing that one class has an ability another doesn’t is akin to saying warriors should have stealth and be able to make clones because they are at a disadvantage to thieves and mesmers.

Warriors also take 50% more damage while frenzy is up btw and lose a utility slot. Pretty big imo and without frenzy warriors have no real burst to speak of. Now should there be no burst in the game or how exactly do you want it to look because the way warrior burst works is dependent on one weapon skill and multiple utilities unless we have other players assisting. We also lose a ton of survivability unlike thieves who don’t rely on actually taking damage for defense. Is that not balanced or do we just remove burst altogether?

As of now a burst warrior will lose most of the time to anyone who can dodge or mitigate the initial burst. Very little condition removal and lower hp and armor means they go down fast. There is no stealth and run away etc. They get snared and just die. What more do you want?

Warriors also take 50% more damage while frenzy is up btw and lose a utility slot.

Thats hardly a disadvantage, since your enemy takes 100% more damage and you’ll double the use of every damage modifier you have.

Now should there be no burst in the game…

I didn’t say there shouldn’t be burst in the game, not even once. 100% more damage is just too much. 33% haste would suffice to be considered burst.
Let me show you the two suggestions I made in the thread I pointed to:

Burst mechanics are fun and removing mechanics outrages players. So I think Quickness should stay but be changed. The Sigil of Rage and Critical Haste need to go.

• Hand Quickness out to all classes but put it into the healing slot
• Reduce Quickness from +100% to +33% haste and remove its drawbacks, this would put it in line with defensive cooldowns

guys focus on warrior, warrior is the bad in the game, nerf him nerf!!!!

-a thief

ofc i am joking. nerf close minded players

Remove quickness and the only class remains unbalanced is thief. War is than fine, tho i dont main him (nor thief).

@OP question
Can’t say about your necro, but if you can’t have a fair fight against a warrior with your mesmer ,then obviously no nerf will do you any good.
If you wanna go rambo with all the cool stuff w/o any kind of cc-breaker (or cc) in a pvp game ,well thats your choice.
Don’t expect others to do the same and come rage the forums tho.

Landing a HB is not easy, most professions have passives and/or utilities so they won’t stay more than a fraction of a second in the HB. A good warrior will need to fish for the opponent’s defensive abilities, keep track of dodges and the opponent’s endurance, all the while thinking about his own survivability because it’s not that high so he needs to be extremely fast at switching to shield and blocking.

I think warriors are well balanced because their burst requires mental tracking of things, and the professions about which people most often complain should be fixed to also work like that. But people are inherently lazy and want to land big damage without the need to think much.

From what I’ve seen, Warriors really are one of the more balanced professions, they could even possibly use a buff to their banners overall.

The reason I say this is because they do exactly what they are there to do… massive damage in short bursts, followed by heavy survivability. Their downed move is great as well, giving them that “not even finished when you think I’m dead” burst that can be used to great measure.

I’ve found how people fight against warriors to be the true litmus test of if you’re learned to dodge yet. I get it at least a little with thief… you don’t always see it coming. But with a warrior, you should see it coming, or else you’re in the midst of a big skirmish, in which case, the competent warrior is scanning to see who he can finish off quickly, and you just happened to be the guy.

I’ve had my way with warriors as a guardian, and now I struggle more as an engineer, but they still feel very well balanced to me. I can’t tell you the number of times I see unlearned warriors do their bull rush + frenzy + HB in pug tPvP and I just watch them standing there swinging at dead air, thinking it will still work against good players. Sometimes it will still catch you off-guard, but if it’s happening enough that you think they are OP, I think you really haven’t learned the dodge mechanic well. Just my opinion.

No clue why people base viability in terms of “Frenzy + Bulls Charge + HB” when there’s Skull Crack > HB or Flurry > HB. Hell sometimes you can even do Shield Bash > HB. You’d pull it off if you’re fighting bads but its still a combo better than Bulls Charge.

Like why don’t you people base viability on a Warrior who at least has both Endure Pain and Balance Stance on the same bar while not sacrificing damage out-put and carry-ability.

The real issue at least to me is when talking about class balance is Mesmers and Engineers. Their gadgets deal damage while they sustain and break off stuns “a.k.a I kittened up button” 3 times in a row. Like why can’t the damage output be mainly from the Engineer or Mesmer itself? Oh yeah, to satisfy low skill cap players. That’s the answer.

All i know about warriors is that today, a guy came at me with spining blades sh**t, and i got hit 3 times, 4k, 5,k 9K. and i am guardian with 2.4K toughness, and 3.7K armor, and 21K hp. Tell me that’s not OP. So he stuns, came at me, spins, i am dead. This happed on more than few occasion and i dont get kill as easy with thieves. So please do soemthing about kk?

Schwahrheit.4203:

No clue why people base viability in terms of “Frenzy + Bulls Charge + HB” when there’s Skull Crack > HB or Flurry > HB. Hell sometimes you can even do Shield Bash > HB. You’d pull it off if you’re fighting bads but its still a combo better than Bulls Charge.

Like why don’t you people base viability on a Warrior who at least has both Endure Pain and Balance Stance on the same bar while not sacrificing damage out-put and carry-ability.

The real issue at least to me is when talking about class balance is Mesmers and Engineers. Their gadgets deal damage while they sustain and break off stuns “a.k.a I kittened up button” 3 times in a row. Like why can’t the damage output be mainly from the Engineer or Mesmer itself? Oh yeah, to satisfy low skill cap players. That’s the answer.

So now you’re adding Engineers into the low skill cap area? If you play a warrior you should have no problem taking down an Engineer, unless you run double melee weapons.

rrna.6301:

All i know about warriors is that today, a guy came at me with spining blades sh**t, and i got hit 3 times, 4k, 5,k 9K. and i am guardian with 2.4K toughness, and 3.7K armor, and 21K hp. Tell me that’s not OP. So he stuns, came at me, spins, i am dead. This happed on more than few occasion and i dont get kill as easy with thieves. So please do soemthing about kk?

I mean no offense really ,but do something like what?
Remote control your keyboard to use Retaliation or Aegis or Dodge or Block for u?
Cause it looks like the warrior was using a whirlwind attack ,now if u die only by that…and as a guardian(?) then something is indeed wrong

If you’re a guardian and got beat by a warrior, you were outplayed, period. Warriors are literally our easiest kills, IMO.