Guild Wars 2

Personally I think jaguar invis is too long. That is the only problem. Almost all of the birds damage is in their F2 which is easily dodged. If you activate F2 and they dodge at any time before the bird gets to them the F2 will miss. If you play with ravens you are using the F1 and F3 keys more than your own. Also, the F2 is easily seen and dodged which makes the BM completely useless if using birds. The big problem I see is the sword auoattack cripple and the invis jaguar that hits for 2k+ crits combo. Since players lack the ability to kite what they can’t see either shorten the invis or remove the cripple on sword autoattack so bad players can try to facetank a BM a little longer.

Jaguar can be esp nasty, I’ve actually been running Drakes a bit more as the F2 on them are far more usable now….River Drake is 5k Damage with its F2.

The f2 is very obvious on drake as is the tail swipe. Both should be easily avoidable and doesn’t deserve to be nerfed.

Yea you can avoid it, I generally try and entangle the person first before using it.

I mainly run it for the AOE of it, as I get zerged a lot in WVW

well i hope Anet watches the King of the custom arena tourney and sees that BM rangers are in no means OP. The moment their 1 v 1 became a 1 v 2 they had to run and only escaped with about 1k health if they escaped at all. That easily could have been another profession in that position.

Then again. I didn’t think HGH engies were OP pre nerf… maybe I just have horrible judgement.

Think most classes can be dropped in 1 vs 2 if its equal skill.

A slight nerf to sustain in general will help. More and more classes run clerics/shaman because you can usually drag the fight for a very long time.

Another option would be buffing burst or cc. Right now it is so easy to avoid big dmg or cc. I hope if they do something to BM ranger it won’t hurt berserker ranger because this one is just starting to maybe become viable with the recent signet (of stone) cooldown buff.

I understand the need for no skill 1v1 easy win builds in a 5v5 territory game type.

Problem is it hurts the skill factor of a skill based game.

Phant mes, along with BM ranger need something scaved off even if they are bad 1v1

P/D thief is very strong 1v1 but that at least takes skill and isn’t a almost guarantied win, how well you play is a factor, it’s not.

ALSO! Pet buffs aside it’s been like this since before the buff, stronger pets are not the problem here infact I think it’s a welcomed buff. It’s the heal to full and being unable to stop or even do any decent damage during it. That’s the problem, I’d comment on doge spam but atleast thy have to give up a weapon bar for that.

Playing that ranger bunker correctly does not require much effort but losing all that damage and utility options balances it out. Tip, hit them with confusion and cover it. I know when I am playing one the confusion can really mess up that ranger. Part of what makes it so tough is all the auto evades in the attack skills, meaning confusion can really hurt. Also making sure they lose their regen buff. The regency is a lot of their survivability.

CC it off point. Take the point. Kite the pet.

When I play my ranger I feel like a god.

pot.6805:

When I play my ranger I feel like a god.

Said the guy who never played a ranger ever

I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say rangers have bad condition removal. As a condition necromancer, I can deal with elementalists and guardians because it’s just a matter of peeling through their condition-cleansing cooldown. But with rangers the passive condition cleansing is constant and debilitating.

Daishi.6027:

I understand the need for no skill 1v1 easy win builds in a 5v5 territory game type.

Problem is it hurts the skill factor of a skill based game.

Phant mes, along with BM ranger need something scaved off even if they are bad 1v1

P/D thief is very strong 1v1 but that at least takes skill and isn’t a almost guarantied win, how well you play is a factor, it’s not.

ALSO! Pet buffs aside it’s been like this since before the buff, stronger pets are not the problem here infact I think it’s a welcomed buff. It’s the heal to full and being unable to stop or even do any decent damage during it. That’s the problem, I’d comment on doge spam but atleast thy have to give up a weapon bar for that.

There is nothing remotely skillful about P/D thief, I played one..a Ranger takes far more skill to play.

What’s the point to nerf a BUNKER build? you can’t kill a ranger bunker alone with a romer (maybe with engi) like you can’t kill a guardian bunker… no sense!

Lopez.7369:

I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say rangers have bad condition removal. As a condition necromancer, I can deal with elementalists and guardians because it’s just a matter of peeling through their condition-cleansing cooldown. But with rangers the passive condition cleansing is constant and debilitating.

Its 3 Conditions every 10 seconds.

Unless they’re using Healing Spring, and Healing Spring has a 30 second cooldown and actually isn’t nearly as good as TU for Bunker Build (It is better for groups though)

I can clear more conditions on my thief just by stealthing..

Dojo.1867:

A slight nerf to sustain in general will help. More and more classes run clerics/shaman because you can usually drag the fight for a very long time.

Another option would be buffing burst or cc. Right now it is so easy to avoid big dmg or cc. I hope if they do something to BM ranger it won’t hurt berserker ranger because this one is just starting to maybe become viable with the recent signet (of stone) cooldown buff.

Last thing this game needs is more buffing of Burst, The Burst in this game is already pretty skill-less.

You see people going Shamans/Clerics more because their Burst Specs are awful…

Go Burst on a Thief, you’ll find it 10x easier then going Burst on a Ranger..

Which forces Rangers into adopting Traps/BM Bunker if they want to do TPvP

Also this whole notion that you should be able to run full glass cannon and kill a Bunker Build 1v1 easily and quick is the same silly logic I see in other games that says a Single DPS should be able to kill a Healer with ease……

You want to kill a Bunker on the back point, Bring 2 people…

They’re Specced Defensive for that whole reason..

Xsorus.2507:

Its 3 Conditions every 10 seconds.

Unless they’re using Healing Spring, and Healing Spring has a 30 second cooldown and actually isn’t nearly as good as TU for Bunker Build (It is better for groups though)

I can clear more conditions on my thief just by stealthing..

Signet of Renewal. I’m sure some use Shake It Off on an off-pet, too.

Keep in mind I’m a necromancer, so three conditions every 10 seconds along with sporadic cleansing takes basically everything I have. (That’s more a necromancer than ranger problem, though. We need something like burn.)

Xsorus.2507:

Dojo.1867:

A slight nerf to sustain in general will help. More and more classes run clerics/shaman because you can usually drag the fight for a very long time.

Another option would be buffing burst or cc. Right now it is so easy to avoid big dmg or cc. I hope if they do something to BM ranger it won’t hurt berserker ranger because this one is just starting to maybe become viable with the recent signet (of stone) cooldown buff.

Last thing this game needs is more buffing of Burst, The Burst in this game is already pretty skill-less.

You see people going Shamans/Clerics more because their Burst Specs are awful…

Go Burst on a Thief, you’ll find it 10x easier then going Burst on a Ranger..

Which forces Rangers into adopting Traps/BM Bunker if they want to do TPvP

Also this whole notion that you should be able to run full glass cannon and kill a Bunker Build 1v1 easily and quick is the same silly logic I see in other games that says a Single DPS should be able to kill a Healer with ease……

You want to kill a Bunker on the back point, Bring 2 people…

They’re Specced Defensive for that whole reason..

I wouldn’t say easily and quick i agree it should take a while but… Isn’t it stated that the initial the deign decision was that a bunker is not supposed to out last and kill a glass cannon?

Ineptitude aside because yeah if your a guardian vs a glass thief and they let everything hit thief deserves to die. Same vice versa

However out lasting is one thing but doing very little meaningful damage as glass and then being pew pew pewed to death or pretty much guarantied to be push off point doesn’t sound like the inital intention for what a bunker should be able to do.

With that said I agree burst doesn’t need a buff

3 conditions every 10 seconds that is in turn killing their pet.

I’m not sure why people haven’t realized that conditions are the counter to rangers. Kind of like every other bunker build.

But anyhow, rangers main condition removal comes from Empathic Bond, which transfers the conditions to the pet. 3 conditions per 10 seconds. Now, when this trait hasn’t activated, the ranger is taking damage. When the 10s mark is hit, the pet is now taking all of the damage, which kills the rangers damage source.

Signet of Renewal passively heals 1 condition from the ranger every 10s. Every other class running a bunker spec has a similar, if not stronger, option. The active for this takes all conditions and puts them on the pet.

Healing Spring heals 1 condition per pulse, and pulses 5 times, but it is also the heal skill and on a high cooldown. Drop AoE conditions on it to cancel out the benefits of a ranger standing in it.

Basically, any necro or engineer that is good at keeping their conditions on a target is going to kill a ranger. Engineers even more so than necros because of their access to burning on top of poison (poison being the bunkers bane condition).

If a person playing either of the mentioned classes cannot kill a ranger, or at the very least make the ranger give up the node, then it is a cut and dry learn to play issue.

I don’t understand how everybody went from thinking rangers were easy kills at lauch to now calling them OP, when the build has been the same since launch but received nothing but nerfs (Empathic Bond specifically, which used to be a full cleanse and not even transfer conditions to the pet).

Dropping conditions on a Healing Spring is actually the worst thing any condition build can do.

For necromancers, the heavy bleed abilities on scepter and dagger have 10-second or 25-second cooldowns. That’s countered by Emphatic Bond. Most of the bleed and all of the poison poison comes from auto-attack, which is good but not good enough to take down someone in a reasonable amount of time.

They must realize things are out of hand… the power vs energy invested is just off balance.

Id like to see the following :

1) shorter range on pets
2) ranger responsible for all pet actions other than maybe a measly auto attack ( no auto jump/knockdown on you make them initiate it )
3) pet dmg reflect ranger specs – if the pet hits hard the ranger dies quick to compensate
4) less ability to switch out pet instantly under duress for salvation or buff/benefit maybe even one pet
What do you guys think of that?

Lopez.7369:

Dropping conditions on a Healing Spring is actually the worst thing any condition build can do.

For necromancers, the heavy bleed abilities on scepter and dagger have 10-second or 25-second cooldowns. That’s countered by Emphatic Bond. Most of the bleed and all of the poison poison comes from auto-attack, which is good but not good enough to take down someone in a reasonable amount of time.

I was thinking specifically poison fields, which necros really don’t have access to (the one utility that they could take isn’t preferred). So more so that comment is aimed at an engi, and an engi does have an easier time than a necro.

Necros can do more interesting things than that, like keep the pet almost constantly chilled/crippled/weakened because it doesn’t dodge, so you can kite much easier and take relatively less damage then a person who would otherwise have to dedicate single target movement reduction to the pet.

Also, it isn’t “countered” by empathic bond, as the pet is eating all of that damage, and the ranger requires the pet to be alive to actually kill you. So you are either killing the pet and alleviating the damage you’re taking, or the ranger switches pets and puts the pet out of position, giving you more chances to kite the new pet, with a new 20s window for your AoE conditions to kill the the new pet and the player at the same time.

Pressure pressure pressure.

Aquin.3192:

They must realize things are out of hand… the power vs energy invested is just off balance.

Id like to see the following :

1) shorter range on pets
2) ranger responsible for all pet actions other than maybe a measly auto attack ( no auto jump/knockdown on you make them initiate it )
3) pet dmg reflect ranger specs – if the pet hits hard the ranger dies quick to compensate
4) less ability to switch out pet instantly under duress for salvation or buff/benefit maybe even one pet
What do you guys think of that?

I think the community is thankful you aren’t part of the games balancing process.

Aquin.3192:

They must realize things are out of hand… the power vs energy invested is just off balance.

Id like to see the following :

1) shorter range on pets
2) ranger responsible for all pet actions other than maybe a measly auto attack ( no auto jump/knockdown on you make them initiate it )
3) pet dmg reflect ranger specs – if the pet hits hard the ranger dies quick to compensate
4) less ability to switch out pet instantly under duress for salvation or buff/benefit maybe even one pet
What do you guys think of that?

1) Ya….
2) And people think rangers are OP now? Wait till that happens!
3) Condition ranger builds would be OP. With a master trait in BM my pets would be inflicting bleeds on auto attack. I would also be doing condi damage to you. Not to mention the ranger would be the same tankiness but now the pet would be tanky too.
4) I do think pet swap CD should be increased a little.

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

The only and clear problem I see is they do high damage while being extremely tanky and evasive, that’s it. Does not compute.

If they nerf pets in pvp they better keep them the same in pve or riots will occur.

Also , I feel pets are ok in spvp…they are actually worse then they were at launch and nobody ever complained then.

Once people see a small buff to a class the world is ending..

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Aquin.3192:

They must realize things are out of hand… the power vs energy invested is just off balance.

Id like to see the following :

1) shorter range on pets
2) ranger responsible for all pet actions other than maybe a measly auto attack ( no auto jump/knockdown on you make them initiate it )
3) pet dmg reflect ranger specs – if the pet hits hard the ranger dies quick to compensate
4) less ability to switch out pet instantly under duress for salvation or buff/benefit maybe even one pet
What do you guys think of that?

Pets really aren’t the problem, the class has been pew pew pew since pre buffs and really most of them are ok.

Changing these wont do anything other annoy people.

You can always just run from them. Where they gonna go?

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

2v1 and not killing something means that someone on the 2 side is a bad player not that the spec is OP. Learn to kite please and stop QQing.

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

At least Iberserker will hit for AoE what does BM ranger bring to team fights?

jcbroe.4329:

I was thinking specifically poison fields, which necros really don’t have access to (the one utility that they could take isn’t preferred). So more so that comment is aimed at an engi, and an engi does have an easier time than a necro.

Necros can do more interesting things than that, like keep the pet almost constantly chilled/crippled/weakened because it doesn’t dodge, so you can kite much easier and take relatively less damage then a person who would otherwise have to dedicate single target movement reduction to the pet.

Also, it isn’t “countered” by empathic bond, as the pet is eating all of that damage, and the ranger requires the pet to be alive to actually kill you. So you are either killing the pet and alleviating the damage you’re taking, or the ranger switches pets and puts the pet out of position, giving you more chances to kite the new pet, with a new 20s window for your AoE conditions to kill the the new pet and the player at the same time.

Pressure pressure pressure.

I admit with necromancers most of the problems could be fixed by giving the class another significant damage DOT so bleed cleansing isn’t absolutely debilitating. Engineer’s access to burning is why it fares so much better. It’s all up to the dark DOT the developers already announced for necromancer.

Either way, my point is rangers don’t have it nearly as bad against conditions as they make it seem. If you want to see classes that do have it bad, look at mesmer, warrior or even engineer.

Eurantien.4632:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

At least Iberserker will hit for AoE what does BM ranger bring to team fights?

True, and Greatsword auto attack pierces, AND has cone knockback.

BMs bring nothing to a team but the ability to sit on a node.

The biggest issue isn’t BM rangers, it’s conquest mode. If it were a more deathmatch or GvG (assault the keep) style game mode, I doubt BM’s would be considered as strong as they are right now (they of course would be strong), when a higher priority gets put on damage output for completing the objective.

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

Oh happy days meta shift where we have 3 1v1 builds and 2 team fight carries. This is gonna be great!!! Can’t wait!!!

But seriously should the game not be pushing more for skill vs skill not counter build vs counter build. I get every game will have a meta but what’s the point of skill when I can close my eyes and face roll classes I’m “designed to” face roll?

Plus phant is god tier 1v1 and yeah it counters ranger but should builds like phant even really exist, soo unskillful IMO. And I believe BM ranger is in the same boat, even if not the same tier.

Although I mean all this with ineptitude aside anyone can lose if they completely dearp out and do somthing dumb like tunnel vision their mini map.

Lopez.7369:

jcbroe.4329:

I was thinking specifically poison fields, which necros really don’t have access to (the one utility that they could take isn’t preferred). So more so that comment is aimed at an engi, and an engi does have an easier time than a necro.

Necros can do more interesting things than that, like keep the pet almost constantly chilled/crippled/weakened because it doesn’t dodge, so you can kite much easier and take relatively less damage then a person who would otherwise have to dedicate single target movement reduction to the pet.

Also, it isn’t “countered” by empathic bond, as the pet is eating all of that damage, and the ranger requires the pet to be alive to actually kill you. So you are either killing the pet and alleviating the damage you’re taking, or the ranger switches pets and puts the pet out of position, giving you more chances to kite the new pet, with a new 20s window for your AoE conditions to kill the the new pet and the player at the same time.

Pressure pressure pressure.

I admit with necromancers most of the problems could be fixed by giving the class another significant damage DOT so bleed cleansing isn’t absolutely debilitating. Engineer’s access to burning is why it fares so much better. It’s all up to the dark DOT the developers already announced for necromancer.

Either way, my point is rangers don’t have it nearly as bad against conditions as they make it seem. If you want to see classes that do have it bad, look at mesmer, warrior or even engineer.

No, it definitely isn’t as bad as other classes. But rangers aren’t entirely alleviated of their conditions, and they can’t do it on a whim either. So condition builds could literally be effective against a ranger 10s at a time, because for 10s, a ranger will be unable to remove them, and if they are removed, they go straight to the pet, with the potential to kill the pet, or to cripple/chill/weaken them, making them ineffective.

I would never argue that the BM is a weak build. But I just don’t truly think that people understand how effective constant pressure can be against them.

For instance, phantasm mesmers can be really rough as well. Rangers lack AoE damage, so a phantasm mesmer can get 3 phantasms up and then just completely outdamage the healing rangers have, and rangers can’t do much against them as long as the mesmer doesn’t get close enough to get hit by a splitblade and can dodge slow moving torches.

But phantasm mesmers aren’t being run because they don’t provide much for a team, even though countering the back node holder and taking it could be a potential example of a phantasm mesmer contributing to a teams victory at least.

So there are options out there, people just don’t want to use them, or think there are better options. The meta for seems to have a midpoint team fight centered strategy, so countering back node holders doesn’t seem to take to priority on team comps.

Eurantien.4632:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

2v1 and not killing something means that someone on the 2 side is a bad player not that the spec is OP. Learn to kite please and stop QQing.

Think you misread what I meant. Or I used bad grammar.

I meant to say it was in favour of the 2 for the 2v1 anyways. So no QQ was to be seen within that statement, just pointing out redundancy.

Zeke Minus.5720:

The thing that still bothers me is the idea that Ranger, specifically this BM build, hasn’t changed much since launch, but now people think it’s OP.

I don’t get it.

Don’t let it bother you much. The same happened to Eles, said it many times but the fact is QQ never stop QQ until things going their ways.

(ANet buffed SOME pets hp or toughness and the only big increase was drakes hp. Almost all the other pets got 2-3k hp increase only.
I think the biggest problem is that your pet chase the target half the map and it should be fixed.) (quoted) I play Eles, not Ranger, I have no pet except Elementals.

Lopez.7369:

jcbroe.4329:

I was thinking specifically poison fields, which necros really don’t have access to (the one utility that they could take isn’t preferred). So more so that comment is aimed at an engi, and an engi does have an easier time than a necro.

Necros can do more interesting things than that, like keep the pet almost constantly chilled/crippled/weakened because it doesn’t dodge, so you can kite much easier and take relatively less damage then a person who would otherwise have to dedicate single target movement reduction to the pet.

Also, it isn’t “countered” by empathic bond, as the pet is eating all of that damage, and the ranger requires the pet to be alive to actually kill you. So you are either killing the pet and alleviating the damage you’re taking, or the ranger switches pets and puts the pet out of position, giving you more chances to kite the new pet, with a new 20s window for your AoE conditions to kill the the new pet and the player at the same time.

Pressure pressure pressure.

I admit with necromancers most of the problems could be fixed by giving the class another significant damage DOT so bleed cleansing isn’t absolutely debilitating. Engineer’s access to burning is why it fares so much better. It’s all up to the dark DOT the developers already announced for necromancer.

Either way, my point is rangers don’t have it nearly as bad against conditions as they make it seem. If you want to see classes that do have it bad, look at mesmer, warrior or even engineer.

Rangers have a very hard time against conditions. Oh that 9 stacks of bleeding just went to my pet? Cool! my pet just got epidemic-ed and now I got that 9 stacks and whatever my pet already had on me now…. Or hey now my pet is dead… and I have 0 condition removal.

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

Oh happy days meta shift where we have 3 1v1 builds and 2 team fight carries. This is gonna be great!!! Can’t wait!!!

But seriously should the game not be pushing more for skill vs skill not counter build vs counter build. I get every game will have a meta but what’s the point of skill when I can close my eyes and face roll classes I’m “designed to” face roll?

I mean ineptitude aside anyone can lose if they completely dearp out and do somthing dumb like tunnel vision their mini map.

Yes it should be, and I have my own thoughts about how poor the implementation of pets are. My ideas are a bit extreme and the ranger community doesn’t like them, but I don’t feel the pet should be doing anywhere the amount of damage it does as a summary, not without traiting for it.

Instead, it should be doing a static amount of damage without the possibility of critting, and then adding points to BM increase the static amount of damage that the pet does.

To compensate, the pet should now have a much higher utility focus, by providing meaningful boons and utility options on a reasonable cooldown, that can be made extremely more useful with traits, with a new grandmaster trait that would give the pets a static crit chance and crit damage value, so that rangers speccing for BM would have to choose between healing or damage.

Of course, this is also assuming that the amount of power damage carried by the pet is added back into the damage potential of the ranger.

The overall basis is that in a competitive environment, the majority of the damage should be coming directly from a players actions, and not the actions of an AI that requires little management other than position by hitting singular keys and letting the AI handle the rest.

So yes, skill vs skill all the way.

Just my quick thinking, why not give all pets base stats (not as much as right not), plus the bonus base on percentage of the Ranger stats. That way, Berserker Ranger pet will hit hard and the Bunker Ranger pet will hit mediocre.

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

jcbroe.4329:

Daishi.6027:

Condi even struggles, pet swap when it’s about to die, and the damage during TU won’t do much, and is often out healed. Also unless the c/d starts after the end of the duration (which I don’t remember if it does and I can’t play since I haven’t been home for a while) that’s up time of every 15 seconds in between of which is being healed for rather major amounts.

So unless you can kill them within 15 seconds with all their doges or can over power TU’s healing. Enjoy being pew pew pewed to death.

Poison and interrupts are two things that need to be utilized.

Trolls heals 10 times (1 per second) for ~900 each. With poison that’s only ~600. If somebody isn’t doing enough damage to make the heal trivial, then they are getting outplayed, and it’s that simple.

Yes cuz every class has a long lasting poison.

Sure everyone knows like phant mes it’s useless team fight. So yeah if someone else puts poison on for you I guess it’s gg but 2v1 against it is almost /gg anyways.

Although true it would make it easier or condi specs.

I already mentioned that engineers are strong counters though lol, so of course I’m going to make a reference to an option a class has that is a strong counter.

People have also claimed having lots of success with phantasm mesmers against rangers, but as you mentioned, that mesmer build doesn’t bring much of what a team prefers.

But hey, maybe it’s time for a metashift.

Oh happy days meta shift where we have 3 1v1 builds and 2 team fight carries. This is gonna be great!!! Can’t wait!!!

But seriously should the game not be pushing more for skill vs skill not counter build vs counter build. I get every game will have a meta but what’s the point of skill when I can close my eyes and face roll classes I’m “designed to” face roll?

I mean ineptitude aside anyone can lose if they completely dearp out and do somthing dumb like tunnel vision their mini map.

Yes it should be, and I have my own thoughts about how poor the implementation of pets are. My ideas are a bit extreme and the ranger community doesn’t like them, but I don’t feel the pet should be doing anywhere the amount of damage it does as a summary, not without traiting for it.

Instead, it should be doing a static amount of damage without the possibility of critting, and then adding points to BM increase the static amount of damage that the pet does.

To compensate, the pet should now have a much higher utility focus, by providing meaningful boons and utility options on a reasonable cooldown, that can be made extremely more useful with traits, with a new grandmaster trait that would give the pets a static crit chance and crit damage value, so that rangers speccing for BM would have to choose between healing or damage.

Of course, this is also assuming that the amount of power damage carried by the pet is added back into the damage potential of the ranger.

The overall basis is that in a competitive environment, the majority of the damage should be coming directly from a players actions, and not the actions of an AI that requires little management other than position by hitting singular keys and letting the AI handle the rest.

So yes, skill vs skill all the way.

<< same way I feel about phant. Except mes get 3

jcbroe.4329:

The overall basis is that in a competitive environment, the majority of the damage should be coming directly from a players actions, and not the actions of an AI that requires little management other than position by hitting singular keys and letting the AI handle the rest.

So yes, skill vs skill all the way.

Are you kidding? Little AI management? If I use a raven most of its damage is the F2 and I NEED that F2 to hit. So I cast F2, they dodge, I have to hit F3 then F1 to get them back on target and not use F2. If a mesmer uses disortion, ele mist form, warrior block or endure pain, guardian block, ranger dodge spam, necro DS, engi elixir s or thrown r, thief invis or evade spam, I have to do the same thing. If they are good I have to bait their dodges and blocks and whatever by casting F2 and cancelling F2. Not to mention that any burst I want to do is going to come from hitting with 1 pet, swapping pets then hitting you with whatever F2 they got. But what’s that? Oh yeah. If you pet swap and use F2 the pet will immediatley F2 whatever is in front of it. So now I have to F4, F1, and then F2. However, that has given the target enough time to do something because they know something is up (because I like to stun before a pet swap). So they do one of the many things listed above so now I have to use F3, F1 again to get my pet back on track.

Now If I am fighting a decent player they will try to hop over hedges, up and down stairs, ledges, and pretty much use whatever terrain is available to kite my pet. So if they do that then I have to call my pet off with F3 wait till they get off of whatever and F1 again.

What about the synergy with my own skills? If I knock them away then I can’t use F2 so I got to use F1 to cancel it. From there it is just responding to what they do. I use my pets 3 commands more than I use my own skills.

If you think BM is easy, on point it is. But when you are fighting 1 v 2 or off point it is not easy.

You can switch your pet when the 3 conditions go to it, then they are gone forever. Most rangers do this and combine with Healing Spring to be almost completely immune to conditions, doing this also gives you quickness.

I don’t think this is however intended, if you switch pets, the remaining conditions it had should effect the ranger.

Eurantien.4632:

jcbroe.4329:

The overall basis is that in a competitive environment, the majority of the damage should be coming directly from a players actions, and not the actions of an AI that requires little management other than position by hitting singular keys and letting the AI handle the rest.

So yes, skill vs skill all the way.

Are you kidding? Little AI management? If I use a raven most of its damage is the F2 and I NEED that F2 to hit. So I cast F2, they dodge, I have to hit F3 then F1 to get them back on target and not use F2. If a mesmer uses disortion, ele mist form, warrior block or endure pain, guardian block, ranger dodge spam, necro DS, engi elixir s or thrown r, thief invis or evade spam, I have to do the same thing. If they are good I have to bait their dodges and blocks and whatever by casting F2 and cancelling F2. Not to mention that any burst I want to do is going to come from hitting with 1 pet, swapping pets then hitting you with whatever F2 they got. But what’s that? Oh yeah. If you pet swap and use F2 the pet will immediatley F2 whatever is in front of it. So now I have to F4, F1, and then F2. However, that has given the target enough time to do something because they know something is up (because I like to stun before a pet swap). So they do one of the many things listed above so now I have to use F3, F1 again to get my pet back on track.

Now If I am fighting a decent player they will try to hop over hedges, up and down stairs, ledges, and pretty much use whatever terrain is available to kite my pet. So if they do that then I have to call my pet off with F3 wait till they get off of whatever and F1 again.

What about the synergy with my own skills? If I knock them away then I can’t use F2 so I got to use F1 to cancel it. From there it is just responding to what they do. I use my pets 3 commands more than I use my own skills.

If you think BM is easy, on point it is. But when you are fighting 1 v 2 or off point it is not easy.

I don’t use birds.

I use wolf/jaguar. Wolf manages itself pretty well. However, it’s still hitting a singular key and then letting the pets position change, then hitting another key.

Jaguars are a bit different because the F2 is a larger part of the damage. But usually landing the chill then switching to the sword for perma cripple while the stealth jaguar hits is sufficient.

I didn’t say it was no skill. But coming from guild wars 1 heroes, where you could flag them around and micromanage their skillbar, and then playing ranger since launch, the level of any potential difficulty pet management has in this game doesn’t really phase me. Again, I’ve been playing the same class and the same build since like launch now, so maybe a new players input to the class would be less biased. But I don’t personally feel challenged by the pet system at all.

Daecollo.9578:

You can switch your pet when the 3 conditions go to it, then they are gone forever. Most rangers do this and combine with Healing Spring to be almost completely immune to conditions, doing this also gives you quickness.

I don’t think this is however intended, if you switch pets, the remaining conditions it had should effect the ranger.

Why shouldn’t it be intended? It’s like using a skill that removes 3 conditions on a 20s cooldown (15s traited). Albeit, the cooldown makes it strong, but its an issue with the cooldown, not with how the trait functions, especially with the lack of any true cleanses other than healing spring.