Guild Wars 2

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

jcbroe.4329:

The overall basis is that in a competitive environment, the majority of the damage should be coming directly from a players actions, and not the actions of an AI that requires little management other than position by hitting singular keys and letting the AI handle the rest.

So yes, skill vs skill all the way.

Are you kidding? Little AI management? If I use a raven most of its damage is the F2 and I NEED that F2 to hit. So I cast F2, they dodge, I have to hit F3 then F1 to get them back on target and not use F2. If a mesmer uses disortion, ele mist form, warrior block or endure pain, guardian block, ranger dodge spam, necro DS, engi elixir s or thrown r, thief invis or evade spam, I have to do the same thing. If they are good I have to bait their dodges and blocks and whatever by casting F2 and cancelling F2. Not to mention that any burst I want to do is going to come from hitting with 1 pet, swapping pets then hitting you with whatever F2 they got. But what’s that? Oh yeah. If you pet swap and use F2 the pet will immediatley F2 whatever is in front of it. So now I have to F4, F1, and then F2. However, that has given the target enough time to do something because they know something is up (because I like to stun before a pet swap). So they do one of the many things listed above so now I have to use F3, F1 again to get my pet back on track.

Now If I am fighting a decent player they will try to hop over hedges, up and down stairs, ledges, and pretty much use whatever terrain is available to kite my pet. So if they do that then I have to call my pet off with F3 wait till they get off of whatever and F1 again.

What about the synergy with my own skills? If I knock them away then I can’t use F2 so I got to use F1 to cancel it. From there it is just responding to what they do. I use my pets 3 commands more than I use my own skills.

If you think BM is easy, on point it is. But when you are fighting 1 v 2 or off point it is not easy.

I don’t use birds.

I use wolf/jaguar. Wolf manages itself pretty well. However, it’s still hitting a singular key and then letting the pets position change, then hitting another key.

Jaguars are a bit different because the F2 is a larger part of the damage. But usually landing the chill then switching to the sword for perma cripple while the stealth jaguar hits is sufficient.

I didn’t say it was no skill. But coming from guild wars 1 heroes, where you could flag them around and micromanage their skillbar, and then playing ranger since launch, the level of any potential difficulty pet management has in this game doesn’t really phase me. Again, I’ve been playing the same class and the same build since like launch now, so maybe a new players input to the class would be less biased. But I don’t personally feel challenged by the pet system at all.

Ya I think Jaguar is mildly OP because its very “easy mode” as for other pets I don’t acknowledge QQ because their damage is so low.

You know… When Ele was OP the more eles on a team the stronger the team. That isn’t the case with any of these new “OP” specs. The more HGH engis, s/d thieves, BMs, or phantasm mesmers a team has the worse that team is going to do. Exception being Spirit Watch. How can that be considered OP?

Eurantien.4632:

You know… When Ele was OP the more eles on a team the stronger the team. That isn’t the case with any of these new “OP” specs. The more HGH engis, s/d thieves, BMs, or phantasm mesmers a team has the worse that team is going to do. Exception being Spirit Watch. How can that be considered OP?

I disagree. Eles is good for team because Anet design them as group support, not front line battle, so ofc the more Eles on the team, the better. The downside is you can not deal enough dams to finish the opponents off. So in the end, a team full of Eles will lose to a full Mesmer team due to just one mistake, Eles is dead. How is that Op? While Engine, thief, Mesmer, is a front line battle, of course you can have a full team of any of these class but it more like individual fight rather than team fight. Eles is group support while other are dam dealer. A balance bw group support and dam dealer is the best setup.Either case, I don’t see any OP in any class.

I’m talking about when ele was OP. When RTL was on 15 sec CD and all that jazz. When premades ran at least 3 eles. No one would run 3 BMs today.

No one would run 3 BM’s ever. They can’t kill crap in time, have no cc outside wolf aoe fear to get people off a point and don’t have high stability uptime (RaO is a 90 sec cd, strip that stability and they don’t get more for another 90 secs).

Most people that complain about BM rangers are just face tanking the pets instead of kiting them.

BM rangers have also no aoe/cleave damage whatsoever.

Engineers or thieves however you can run 2 of them just fine. It’s just that mesmer is also a good spike class and offers better team utility so every team that has a thief or engineer pairs them with a mesmer to get kills. You always see mesmers and thieves spiking targets together.

Running 2 thieves or 2 engis would mean you’re either skimping on the mesmer or are not bringing any bunkers.

The whole pets getting my conditions thing doesn’t really matter except for 3 conditions, Immobilize, Cripple, Chill…Every other condition is a non issue as you won’t kill the pet with them cause i’ll simply swap it out…You do those 3 though i listed and it can really hurt my damage.

The reason conditions counter bunker rangers (and i’m talking about in a 2v1 not in a 1v1) is because Bursters can do a pretty good amount of damage, but its not able to finish the ranger off because of all the dodges..

a Necro can apply a 10 stack of bleed almost instantly…. Something which i won’t be able to dodge once its on me…. I fear a Necro adding in on my fights more then any other class because i’ll instantly have more conditions on me then I can handle.

Also…did someone really just say someone is going to run a Bear for Shake it Off?

Are you bloody kidding me.

The only complaint I have with Rangers is that in some cases, I’ve been attacked on Far by a pet owned by a Ranger on Close.

That’s just dumb. It’s not OP or anything, just…irritating. Like swatting a fly out of the air and finding it buzzing around your ear a minute later.

Auesis.7301:

The only complaint I have with Rangers is that in some cases, I’ve been attacked on Far by a pet owned by a Ranger on Close.

That’s just dumb. It’s not OP or anything, just…irritating. Like swatting a fly out of the air and finding it buzzing around your ear a minute later.

My only real complaint as well. The pet should leash at something like 2000 range.

I think most of the complaint is not the ranger itself but the pet and the mechanic of the pet control. I honestly Ranger itself need to buff so, they don’t have to pick BM or Trap Ranger,and the pet mechanic need to be fixed.

The most powerful aspect of rangers isn’t their pet (does 0 damage on moving targets), or their evades (telegraphed; easily predictable and countered), or their condi removal (on par with other bunkers).

It’s their heal.

What makes Troll Unguent so strong is that it can be used preemptively. It’s an 8.5k HP heal over 10 seconds, but it can be used when the Ranger is at full HP right before a fight breaks out. This effectively makes the cooldown of Troll Unguent only 15 seconds for the next one.

With a well-timed Troll Unguent, a Ranger with no healing stat is basically healing for 17k HP over a short period of time. It is, by far, the strongest heal in the game, and it is the reason why rangers seem to have an immovable HP bar. Troll Unguent’s cooldown says it’s 25 seconds, but when you factor in all of the seconds of invulnerability the Ranger has from evasions and dodge rolls from perma vigor, and the fact that you can preemptively cast Troll Unguent, that cooldown is much, much shorter than stated.

Eh?? You can do such a thing with Troll Unguents, interesting….

Stealth.9324:

Hm… Why they think Eles is Immortal bf and now Ranger got the same title too? I, bunker Eles, can kill a Bunker Ranger. Sure the fight is long, 10 mins but they are not Immortal, same with Eles. By the way, I play Eles, Not Ranger.

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT!!!! (I had to lol)

zone.1073:

The most powerful aspect of rangers isn’t their pet (does 0 damage on moving targets), or their evades (telegraphed; easily predictable and countered), or their condi removal (on par with other bunkers).

It’s their heal.

What makes Troll Unguent so strong is that it can be used preemptively. It’s an 8.5k HP heal over 10 seconds, but it can be used when the Ranger is at full HP right before a fight breaks out. This effectively makes the cooldown of Troll Unguent only 15 seconds for the next one.

With a well-timed Troll Unguent, a Ranger with no healing stat is basically healing for 17k HP over a short period of time. It is, by far, the strongest heal in the game, and it is the reason why rangers seem to have an immovable HP bar. Troll Unguent’s cooldown says it’s 25 seconds, but when you factor in all of the seconds of invulnerability the Ranger has from evasions and dodge rolls from perma vigor, and the fact that you can preemptively cast Troll Unguent, that cooldown is much, much shorter than stated.

With troll unguent you only got 2 condition wipes every 10 seconds, after which an opponent can stack conditions on you, and evades won’;t do anything to stop those conditions ticking.

TU also trades in long duration sustain for the ability to be bursted. TU isn’t gonna do crap when you’re getting trained by 2-3 people. You will be spiked down and even if you can stay alive for a bit you won’t be killing anybody or knocking them offpoint like a guardian or ele can.

Troll Unguent has a longer cast time, and it does nothing for teamfights whereas the superior healing spring does (and with runes of dwayna you can gain perma regen and high vigor uptime in addition to blasting on a high duration water field that also cleanses conditions every 3 secs off you and your teammaes).

If anything, troll unguent needs to be made more useful, because it’s only used by bunker rangers; trapper and GC rangers will never use it because they will day way faster than the healing will kick in.

The problem with the ranger is that you either go all out bunker and are able to survive, or you simply go down faster than a prom dress if you don’t. Nobody plays berserker rangers because their active defenses are so weak and a couple of dodges won’t compensate because those dodges actually kill your pressure output (serpent strike is horrible dps).

Zenith.7301:

With troll unguent you only got 2 condition wipes every 10 seconds, after which an opponent can stack conditions on you, and evades won’;t do anything to stop those conditions ticking.

TU also trades in long duration sustain for the ability to be bursted. TU isn’t gonna do crap when you’re getting trained by 2-3 people. You will be spiked down and even if you can stay alive for a bit you won’t be killing anybody or knocking them offpoint like a guardian or ele can.

Troll Unguent has a longer cast time, and it does nothing for teamfights whereas the superior healing spring does (and with runes of dwayna you can gain perma regen and high vigor uptime in addition to blasting on a high duration water field that also cleanses conditions every 3 secs off you and your teammaes).

If anything, troll unguent needs to be made more useful, because it’s only used by bunker rangers and trapper and GC rangers will never use it because they will day way faster than the healing will kick in.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what type of ranger people are complaining about here. We’re not talking about glass cannons. This type of ranger does not team fight. The so-called “immortal ranger” as indicated by the thread title excels in 1v1s, 1v2s, and 2v2s, and that’s how it should only be used. It’s a home point holder or a far point assaulter. And it’s exceptionally great at both of those roles. Perhaps too great. Troll Unguent is a very big factor to why the ranger succeeds so much in these roles.

Rastaman.9015:

Stealth.9324:

Hm… Why they think Eles is Immortal bf and now Ranger got the same title too? I, bunker Eles, can kill a Bunker Ranger. Sure the fight is long, 10 mins but they are not Immortal, same with Eles. By the way, I play Eles, Not Ranger.

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FO DAT!!!! (I had to lol)

In duelling, I would say why not. In PvP tournament environment, please read my second post on the first page for answer.

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

AlexRD.7914:

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

For 10 seconds you are essentially doing no damage because the ranger is just healing it out. Now the ranger is at full health and must survive 15 seconds. So dodge, Lightning reflexes, dodge, sword 3, sword 2, dodge again, dagger 4, shortbow 3, dodge again, stun, heal. Ranger is now still near full health and has is out healing that damage you are doing while it waits for its CDs. That is what we are talking about.

On an unrelated note. Since other BMs are probably keeping tabs on this thread hoping they won’t get nerfed. Do you have problems with phantasm mesmers? Because I usually get owned.

AlexRD.7914:

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

Because enemies will sit and stare at the ranger at the beginning of a fight in a 1v1 or 1v2, of course, right? Since all of their damage will be mitigated by the preemptive Troll Unguent; might as well just give up and /sit at the start of the fight, correct?

It would be helpful if the leaderboard rank of everybody posting on these forum was displayed next to their name, so we know precisely who to discredit and ignore.

zone.1073:

AlexRD.7914:

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

Because enemies will sit and stare at the ranger at the beginning of a fight in a 1v1 or 1v2, of course, right? Since all of their damage will be mitigated by the preemptive Troll Unguent; might as well just give up and /sit at the start of the fight, correct?

It would be helpful if the leaderboard rank of everybody posting on these forum was displayed next to their name, so we know precisely who to discredit and ignore.

Well, that would create an unpleasant community and Anet, neither do I like to see that happening. Plus it is a bit of privacy issue involved. We already can see their username, so we can already use that to block them if we feel unpleasant toward them. I disagree to make them.

Funny stuff. All the bad players complained about how bad rangers had it 4 months ago and felt sorry for them. Said at the time ‘if they buff rangers they’re going to be ridiculous they’re already a little out of hand’. Now look. TBH I’m not seeing much of a problem, but this thread is amusing anyway.

Perfect example of why ‘listen to the community’ is the absolute WORST way to run an MMO.

Eurantien.4632:

On an unrelated note. Since other BMs are probably keeping tabs on this thread hoping they won’t get nerfed. Do you have problems with phantasm mesmers? Because I usually get owned.

I’ve not ran into any of the non Shatter ones in a while, but Mesmer’s really aren’t much trouble for Condition Rangers.

Only thing that’ll give me a run for my money is a Trap Ranger.

Mammoth.1975:

Funny stuff. All the bad players complained about how bad rangers had it 4 months ago and felt sorry for them. Said at the time ‘if they buff rangers they’re going to be ridiculous they’re already a little out of hand’. Now look. TBH I’m not seeing much of a problem, but this thread is amusing anyway.

Perfect example of why ‘listen to the community’ is the absolute WORST way to run an MMO.

BM Bunker has existed longer then 4 months..

in fact its been nerfed multiple times..

zone.1073:

AlexRD.7914:

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

Because enemies will sit and stare at the ranger at the beginning of a fight in a 1v1 or 1v2, of course, right? Since all of their damage will be mitigated by the preemptive Troll Unguent; might as well just give up and /sit at the start of the fight, correct?

It would be helpful if the leaderboard rank of everybody posting on these forum was displayed next to their name, so we know precisely who to discredit and ignore.

That’s what you’re trying to do with that passive aggressive comment? To discredit me? Well, i can tell you’ve got mad skillz in that. I also don’t recall stating that 2 people would stand around doing nothing. OH WAIT, that’s your way of discrediting me right? kitten you’re good.

You assume directly that the ranger’s HPS will completely mitigate the damage, which you can’t do. Troll unguent adds what, 1000 HPS to 500? So we can assume the ranger will have about 1500 HPS. A lot of classes can out-DPS that, and in a 1v2 this wouldn’t hold. So basically, in that situation, you don’t begin the fight 10 seconds later with 100% health. You begin it with what, 75%? 60% if it’s a 1v2? THEN you have to survive for 15 seconds to heal.

This is why theorycrafting in the forums is bad.
A lot of variables are left out (like poison upkeep on the heal), and people can assume a lot things to get to the expected result.

Xsorus.2507:

Mammoth.1975:

Funny stuff. All the bad players complained about how bad rangers had it 4 months ago and felt sorry for them. Said at the time ‘if they buff rangers they’re going to be ridiculous they’re already a little out of hand’. Now look. TBH I’m not seeing much of a problem, but this thread is amusing anyway.

Perfect example of why ‘listen to the community’ is the absolute WORST way to run an MMO.

BM Bunker has existed longer then 4 months..

in fact its been nerfed multiple times..

Exactly. They were a little out of hand then, and this forum was alive with ‘ranger so baed’ posts. 4 months later, people catch on.

Xsorus.2507:

Eurantien.4632:

On an unrelated note. Since other BMs are probably keeping tabs on this thread hoping they won’t get nerfed. Do you have problems with phantasm mesmers? Because I usually get owned.

I’ve not ran into any of the non Shatter ones in a while, but Mesmer’s really aren’t much trouble for Condition Rangers.

Only thing that’ll give me a run for my money is a Trap Ranger.

Heh … for me it is certain engineer-builds that seems to be able to wear me down, if they know what they are doing. Fun fights though.

zone.1073:

The most powerful aspect of rangers isn’t their pet (does 0 damage on moving targets), or their evades (telegraphed; easily predictable and countered), or their condi removal (on par with other bunkers).

It’s their heal.

What makes Troll Unguent so strong is that it can be used preemptively. It’s an 8.5k HP heal over 10 seconds, but it can be used when the Ranger is at full HP right before a fight breaks out. This effectively makes the cooldown of Troll Unguent only 15 seconds for the next one.

With a well-timed Troll Unguent, a Ranger with no healing stat is basically healing for 17k HP over a short period of time. It is, by far, the strongest heal in the game, and it is the reason why rangers seem to have an immovable HP bar. Troll Unguent’s cooldown says it’s 25 seconds, but when you factor in all of the seconds of invulnerability the Ranger has from evasions and dodge rolls from perma vigor, and the fact that you can preemptively cast Troll Unguent, that cooldown is much, much shorter than stated.

+1

This.

They do suck in team fights though (i dunno about 2v2s haven’t done any yet vs ranger and another) but 1v1 unless your Engie MAYBE necro, it’s /gg (oh also phant but that’s just as bad as BM ranger, less heals though.)

For the love of god; don’t talk about engineers beating rangers. Engineers can only beat warriors. Shhhhhhhh
#BuffEngineers

Not sure how Troll Unguent is a problem for classes with access to poison. And if people don’t think they should be taking the hard counter to a healing build (33% less healing. Lingering Curse in guild wars 1 was nerfed down to 20% for being too effective, but there were also dedicated healers, etc, but still) to deal with a healing build, then I’m not sure what to tell them.

Also, all of the evades? Granted there are a lot, but the sword/dagger combo only provides 2.5 seconds of evade at a time in total, and most people don’t run shortbow, especially if they don’t have torch somewhere on the build since that would sacrifice burning; one of the highest damage sources. But if a person were to run shortbow for whatever reason, that is another 3/4s evade.
If you want to burn Lightning Reflexes (I don’t even use it personally, Signet of Renewal is better) for a dodge for whatever reason, that is another 3/4s evade.

So you would have to sacrifice quite a bit to build up to those 5s of evasion off of weapon skills. But the typical build is more like axe/torch and sword/dagger, with Signet of Renewal, and Signet of the Wild, with an open utility slot that people have been opting to take Muddy Terrain or Frost Trap in. Which this build only has 2.5s of evade total from weapon skills.

Again, an engineer can handle this because of how constant and high their pressure can be, and rangers can’t really strip boons, so an HGH can just stack up might and get stronger and stronger and become more of a threat. They can kite the pet with the access to cripple and chill. And they can consistently cleanse because of 409.

There really isn’t a better counter to the ranger in the game. Again, a good phantasm mesmer, but they have to be much more mindful of getting conditions on them since their cleansing is lacking.

Still, this build has existed since basically launch, and has gotten worse over time. But it only received complaints when top teams started using them and popularizing them. So while I have my own reservations about the ranger that I doubt the devs will ever listen to (and the ranger community who enjoys their pets will remain happy), I have to say that overused != overpowered.

Instead of everybody crying nerf nerf nerf all the time, people should be going: “buff buff buff.” Buff my class so I can deal with this other class or this build. Instead people say nerf, because they feel like their class is the perfect class and everything should be on its level. When in reality there class might actually be deserving of a buff to help compete against more powerful builds/classes.
OR, the class is a complete hard counter to their class, and they lost the build wars so now they’re kitten about it and are crying nerf. Either way, nerfing everything is not helpful for development in any way. You want to add more options, not remove existing ones.

Daishi.6027:

zone.1073:

The most powerful aspect of rangers isn’t their pet (does 0 damage on moving targets), or their evades (telegraphed; easily predictable and countered), or their condi removal (on par with other bunkers).

It’s their heal.

What makes Troll Unguent so strong is that it can be used preemptively. It’s an 8.5k HP heal over 10 seconds, but it can be used when the Ranger is at full HP right before a fight breaks out. This effectively makes the cooldown of Troll Unguent only 15 seconds for the next one.

With a well-timed Troll Unguent, a Ranger with no healing stat is basically healing for 17k HP over a short period of time. It is, by far, the strongest heal in the game, and it is the reason why rangers seem to have an immovable HP bar. Troll Unguent’s cooldown says it’s 25 seconds, but when you factor in all of the seconds of invulnerability the Ranger has from evasions and dodge rolls from perma vigor, and the fact that you can preemptively cast Troll Unguent, that cooldown is much, much shorter than stated.

+1

This.

They do suck in team fights though (i dunno about 2v2s haven’t done any yet vs ranger and another) but 1v1 unless your Engie MAYBE necro, it’s /gg (oh also phant but that’s just as bad as BM ranger, less heals though.)

I am surprised people are saying necro is a counter to BM rangers. I can beat every class and every build 1 on 1 with my fear necro (they can beat me too sometimes ofc), but the one build I cant beat anyone on is BM ranger. It literally directly counters a condi necro and you will die whilst they are on 100% health.

I think a majority of the problem is people don’t kite properly (you can run in circles on a node and rarely get hit by the pet). Also, to beat a BM you have to use conditions that aren’t as popular like chill and cripple so that they pet won’t be able to catch up to you. If you drop an aoe cripple on the pet and the ranger then the ranger’s cripple will transfer to the pet and double the cripple time on the pet, the same goes for chill. Once you don’t have to worry about the pet the fight is easy mode. I don’t see how having to run in circles makes a class OP.

Poxxia.1547:

Xsorus.2507:

Eurantien.4632:

On an unrelated note. Since other BMs are probably keeping tabs on this thread hoping they won’t get nerfed. Do you have problems with phantasm mesmers? Because I usually get owned.

I’ve not ran into any of the non Shatter ones in a while, but Mesmer’s really aren’t much trouble for Condition Rangers.

Only thing that’ll give me a run for my money is a Trap Ranger.

Heh … for me it is certain engineer-builds that seems to be able to wear me down, if they know what they are doing. Fun fights though.

I’ve only ran into one engineer before the patch that could defeat me, and it was a very long fight, he was running the hgh builds i believe.

I’ve not run into any since then…..

Eurantien.4632:

I think a majority of the problem is people don’t kite properly (you can run in circles on a node and rarely get hit by the pet). Also, to beat a BM you have to use conditions that aren’t as popular like chill and cripple so that they pet won’t be able to catch up to you. If you drop an aoe cripple on the pet and the ranger then the ranger’s cripple will transfer to the pet and double the cripple time on the pet, the same goes for chill. Once you don’t have to worry about the pet the fight is easy mode. I don’t see how having to run in circles makes a class OP.

yeap, chill and cripple are the biggest conditions to use vs a Ranger and will help a crap ton in a fight.

zone.1073:

AlexRD.7914:

Oh god, you people think troll unguent is magic.

If you used it in the beginning of the fight, the heal will be useless for the duration your HP is at 100%. So when you start taking damage, it won’t have full duration and will NOT heal you all up. You will have to survive 15 seconds without any heal ability. The only real benefit of troll unguent over heal as one is the 120% healing scale, other than that it loses in all aspects.

Because enemies will sit and stare at the ranger at the beginning of a fight in a 1v1 or 1v2, of course, right? Since all of their damage will be mitigated by the preemptive Troll Unguent; might as well just give up and /sit at the start of the fight, correct?

It would be helpful if the leaderboard rank of everybody posting on these forum was displayed next to their name, so we know precisely who to discredit and ignore.

Actually, it’s not necessarily smart to cast troll urgent before the fight because you waste healing. In addition, you do not know for sure you will get tons of damage and it is stupid to waste the heal. The cast time for this ability is very long compared too some heals making it a pain during battle. Thus, I think it evens out since it has a long cast time and good payoff. There is no reason to give up against a ranger 1v1. Just stun them and kill their pet. Without a pet on 45 (it might be 40) second cooldown, you will kill them. All their damage is on the pet. If you are really gonna complain about the ranger, you should also complain about the minion necro and phantasm mesmer. It is exactly the same concept. ALL the damage is your pets or phantasms.

Don’t go discrediting me because I play ranger. I don’t think anyone should complain about rangers unless they have played 1 and fought them. Otherwise, how do you know how the hell to fight them? Before complaining, play it for yourself and learn. It’s like at the beginning of the game when no one could fight mesmers and thiefs. This is stupid. Rangers have had it crappy for most of this game and now they have found one build that’s worth it and everyone hates them. I hope ANET ignore this stupid thread. Other than making rangers have a leash, there’s nothing wrong with rangers.

Giving the build the benefit of the doubt:

0/10/0/30/30 Ele

0/30/30/5/5 Gaurdian

20/20/0/0/30 Shatter mes

I’d like advice to fight BM Ranger for each build on point anywhere that’s not TotSS where I can abuse terrain without going to far from the point. (Still the pet is not to much of a problem the CC is annoying, and I can kill birds easy.)

I used to be able to do it on BS thief but haven’t played it in so long and lots of nerfs since.

Well if they own the point and it is a 1 v 1 what is the point of fighting them on point? If the ranger isn’t using a cat or a bird then you don’t have to worry about damage.

Ele: Use soldier amulet and fire elemental and you just won. Other than that chilling the pet and CC helps a lot but I doubt you will have the sustain if you aren’t using soldiers. If they aren’t using offensive pets just try to updraft them off point until it is decapped.

Guardian: Looks like a glassy spec to me (I don’t touch heavy armored classes because they have no escapes). In that case just get in there and go for the ranger. If you are using the GS the aoe will be enough to get the pet VERY low. Just kill the pet when that happens. If you are not using GS then you just have to burst the ranger down. If you are tanky at all just decap the ranger and run in circles from the pet.

Shatter mes: Shatter mesmers and beast master rangers rarely come in contact with one another. Play smart and kite the pet. Again, why fight on point if you are glass and they are not and they own the point? If you have a GS try to decap them. If you can’t then stay offpoint (maybe keep your illusions up a bit longer than normal) when you see them use up the dodge spam go for the double shatter. If you can’t double shatter then good luck because you must be running portal and illusion of life so that one utility is gonna make it a tough fight.

Eurantien.4632:

On an unrelated note. Since other BMs are probably keeping tabs on this thread hoping they won’t get nerfed. Do you have problems with phantasm mesmers? Because I usually get owned.

I’m not sure what sort of BM I run (starter runes and soldier amulet) but phantasm mesmers are a huge problem to me if they don’t shatter. If I set pet on the real one, I can follow it to make sure I dps the right one, but in a sheer dps/dodge race, the mesmer usually wins unless he stands close enough to the phantasms for greatsword to work (seen that once and once only).
However, I find that anything with minions/illusions is a problem. So my major issues are engineers (any spec), phantasm mesmers and minion necromancers.
Also I find immobilizes hard to deal with as they take a while to get free of.
Anyone have a good tip for dealing with those?

That said, the unleashed pet can be fun when you set your pet on something and run the other direction, but they do in fact have a return distance. When they cross a certain distance they return straight to my side. But one thing to consider is that if you have a ranger pet on your heels, that means the ranger is defenseless and has no damage available until she switches pet. Also, if you keep moving, the pet does very little and it has a quite slow attack speed.

Eurantien.4632:

Well if they own the point and it is a 1 v 1 what is the point of fighting them on point? If the ranger isn’t using a cat or a bird then you don’t have to worry about damage.

Ele: Use soldier amulet and fire elemental and you just won. Other than that chilling the pet and CC helps a lot but I doubt you will have the sustain if you aren’t using soldiers. If they aren’t using offensive pets just try to updraft them off point until it is decapped.

Guardian: Looks like a glassy spec to me (I don’t touch heavy armored classes because they have no escapes). In that case just get in there and go for the ranger. If you are using the GS the aoe will be enough to get the pet VERY low. Just kill the pet when that happens. If you are not using GS then you just have to burst the ranger down. If you are tanky at all just decap the ranger and run in circles from the pet.

Shatter mes: Shatter mesmers and beast master rangers rarely come in contact with one another. Play smart and kite the pet. Again, why fight on point if you are glass and they are not and they own the point? If you have a GS try to decap them. If you can’t then stay offpoint (maybe keep your illusions up a bit longer than normal) when you see them use up the dodge spam go for the double shatter. If you can’t double shatter then good luck because you must be running portal and illusion of life so that one utility is gonna make it a tough fight.

K so how do I actually kill them kittenter mes? Or do I just pretend I’m phant and hope to god I outlast his arrows?

When you have this much debate over whether a profession is OP or not, the profession is likely on the right track.

AlexRD.7914:

pot.6805:

When I play my ranger I feel like a god.

Said the guy who never played a ranger ever

I feel like a god, when I play my ranger.

Last night I killed a ranger!
I downed him the first time after a long fight and went for the stop but he interrupted me and healed himself up against and almost to 100%… After again another long fight I downed him again BUT in the water… His pet again healed him to live again. Yes I did try to kill the pet but he just healed his owner too fast and he fled….
Finely I managed to downed him again a few minutes later (new encounter) and managed to stop him on the second try right when he was about to res himself again…

NERF ME!! I killed a ranger!

Volrath.1473:

Last night I killed a ranger!
I downed him the first time after a long fight and went for the stop but he interrupted me and healed himself up against and almost to 100%… After again another long fight I downed him again BUT in the water… His pet again healed him to live again. Yes I did try to kill the pet but he just healed his owner too fast and he fled….
Finely I managed to downed him again a few minutes later (new encounter) and managed to stop him on the second try right when he was about to res himself again…

NERF ME!! I killed a ranger!

Nice one. Well, honestly to me Troll Ugen or whatever the name is, you know what I mean, is not much of a problem. There are two mains problem that most people feels uncomfortable with:

1/Ranger is the king of the downstate.
2/ Even traited as the bunker, the pet hit like a berserker.

To fix this, many people suggest pet stats should directly scale off with his owner stats,pet of a bunker should not hit as hard as of a berserker ranger,and pet of a berserker should not be survive as long as of a bunker. Same applied with Healing power. If you want to get up fast, trait a lot healing power. My 2cents

Whipem.1705:

First of Rangers are not immortal. I’m not going to read this whole thread. Just because your a DPS class traited and skilled BUNKER for survivability and you don’t have the DPS to kill us is not our FAULT.

You people are have issues. Just because the way you are spec’ed and traited and have no ability to kill us is your problem. Maybe you should try something different. We are easily killed.

Secondly king of down state is wrong. Yes, we have some good down state advantages. So do other classes. Look at the Warrior. Warrior > Ranger in downstate. He can get up come stomp us and now he’s back in the game. I don’t see you guys complaining about that? ???? I know I’m not. Its part of PVP..

LEARN TO OVERCOME and ADAPT!

Ah.. Not really. War downstate Vengence does not secure his up straight away even when he stomp you though. 50% if traited and he only has 15s to do that or die. So in short, gamble or die.While Ranger if both are at downstate, Ranger win all the time. It s a GUARNTEE rally. See the difference? Like I said, we have no trouble with your lots, trait or skill but with the Pet, the downstate and their mechanism. I already explain it in my post, so I won’t post again. Sure, it is our fault for have no DpS to kill you but again, you should also have no ability to kill bunker by yourself alone which not really happened ATM. Think back about the past where Eles is Op. People called Eles Op, immortal simply because we survive long and well. We are Bunker, we are supposed to do that when traited. Then why it is OUR FAULT that people call us OP because they Can’t kill us?Have you seen any Bunker Eles can kill any DECENT player in 1vs1Yet they are OP.

So my POST was removed by the forum mod!?!? for whatever reason.. I guess ANET is about censorship and I struck a cord. I do not see how my post was rude or unfriendly. ANET get your stuff together.. Thank you. See the above replay that has a copy of my original post. Nothing directed towards anyone, not rude remarks.

Bunker ranges are a nightmare to take down, is it fair that after all the work to down them, we can’t get them stomped and whatch them get back up and at 80-90% HP resetting the fight?

Volrath.1473:

Last night I killed a ranger!
I downed him the first time after a long fight and went for the stop but he interrupted me and healed himself up against and almost to 100%…

This is pure bullkitten. How anyone can fail a stomp and let a ranger heal up to full just points to a total wreck of a player attempting the stomp.

False propaganda all over again and the blind leading the blind.

I will let all you guys complaining about rangers in a downstate being overpowered.

SUPER SECRET TIP! THE PRO’S DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW.

If the ranger is down….and your having a hard time getting the stomp in… KILL THE PET….or CC the pet

There are two mains problem that most people feels uncomfortable with:

1/Ranger is the king of the downstate.
2/ Even traited as the bunker, the pet hit like a berserker.

3. Pets being able to attack even if the ranger is on the other side of the map.

I almost always win in fights with my ranger. Why? Skill. A mesmer beat me in a 1v1 last night (you know who you are, great fight). Do you see me crying for a mesmer nerf? Of course not. I got outplayed and outbuilt, pure and simple.

Phantasm Mesmer should stomp BM ranger with little problem most of the time.