Guild Wars 2

Gandarel.5091:

I play less day-by-day. But this combat systeam has so much potential, and i loved GW1, would love GW2 too if we would have the GW1 gamemodes.

And since new gamemdoes are being tested, I start to have some-kind of hope again. But I don’t like this FPS style, like we have the map and can chose a gamemode.. fine for FPS, but a conquest map is just not fine for a Deathmatch. They need separated maps.

To not to split the community, they should give us a GW1 gamemode called Heroes’ Ascent, where if you get more and more rankpoints for each consecutive win, different maps with different gamemodes follow each other AND has reward. If theat would happen, many would come back, and PvP would definitely be more attractive.

Totaly agree, new mode = New map !

It make me think that in Everquest next (New mmo will send GW2 in “oubliette”), they will make a map creator and game creator for players.
Well in futur, we will don’t have this problem of " Devs is so sloooooooooooooooooooooow, when they will strat to working ?", because devs will be us !

Mrbig.8019:

That’s exactly what i’ve said. sink some resources

The point is that it doesn’t seem they want to do it.

They’re in the situation where in order to step out from the mud you need a good resource investment, so they’re to the point where they need to choose between:

A: invest a lot in the sector with the right moves trying to mend and hoping it will be able to flourish

B: progressively cut the resources and put them in a more succesful sector

Going back and reading my previous post it comes back a bit more harsh than intended. Apologies Biggie.

That said, we seem to agree. The right move is to press the advantage they have in the PvP market of this genre while they still have it and invest heavily on locking it down asap. Unfortunately they are either hesitating, or failing in the execution of that end.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Mrbig.8019:

That’s exactly what i’ve said. sink some resources

The point is that it doesn’t seem they want to do it.

They’re in the situation where in order to step out from the mud you need a good resource investment, so they’re to the point where they need to choose between:

A: invest a lot in the sector with the right moves trying to mend and hoping it will be able to flourish

B: progressively cut the resources and put them in a more succesful sector

Going back and reading my previous post it comes back a bit more harsh than intended. Apologies Biggie.

That said, we seem to agree. The right move is to press the advantage they have in the PvP market of this genre while they still have it and invest heavily on locking it down asap. Unfortunately they are either hesitating, or failing in the execution of that end.

They’re clearly hesitating.

The point here is that they’re facing a quite angry customer, so it’ s very hard to estabilish how many resources they need to invest, because it may come out to be not enough.

The issue here is that the more they hesitate, the more people rage, and quit.

That’s why i said they need to take action, but if you just try to bandaid PvP ( like it seems they want to do) you will just have an even more enraged PvP population, because they will feel neglected ( when paradoxically they’re obtaining content, altough small one).

They need to stop hesitating and take action FAST with BIG resources. Otherwise the “abandonment” issue won’t feel so far.

And remember that the “perception” of the product , in this case, is very important: and we all know wht the perception of the product is.

@Mrbig

I agree with you but imo it is already to late, many pvpers have left and i doubt that even 20% of them will come back.
As for me, im taking yet another brake from the game (i never took so many breakes in any other game) and for me it is the last chance.
I play for the fun and this game only provides frustration, I’m better of playing something else (even smartphone games -_-’).

Edit. I’m 34, i work very hard every day (10h-12h), I have a little 3 year old daughter that i love to be and play with, i train 3 days a week (MMA) the little time that i have left i like to play, I’ve been a competitive online gamer since 1998.
Played competitively in EU with my Clan and made it to the top 3 (played FPS, RTS, and MMOrpg’s) now im just another causal player

On my free time I play for FUN, this game is NOT fun anymore and besides chating with my guild mates that are awesome ppl, apart from that there is nothing appealing about Gw2 atm sadly….

Volrath.1473:

@Mrbig

I agree with you but imo it is already to late, many pvpers have left and i doubt that even 20% of them will come back.
As for me, im taking yet another brake from the game (i never took so many brakes in any other game) and for me it is the last chance.
I play for the fun and this game only provides frustration, I’m better of playing something else (even smartphone games -_-’).

breaks* But yeah I agree. I almost started reading books. OTL

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Volrath.1473:

@Mrbig

I agree with you but imo it is already to late, many pvpers have left and i doubt that even 20% of them will come back.
As for me, im taking yet another brake from the game (i never took so many brakes in any other game) and for me it is the last chance.
I play for the fun and this game only provides frustration, I’m better of playing something else (even smartphone games -_-’).

breaks* But yeah I agree. I almost started reading books. OTL

yes, Breaks tks

Not playing for 2 month now. Watched the preview of the next patch, which should be huge…well it is like all the other patches in the past. Tab targetting is not a QoL change for me. Was begging since release for better rewards but well Arenanet really want to get rid of pvp.

Balance is not something one have to mention in a preview…it is something really standard. However confirmed my assumption for the whole game – Will see ya in 2-3 month, maybe.

This game is a victim of his own management. Dedicated community and developers but too few ressources and in general too slow (besides overhasty necro patch gave the game its quietus ). We were waiting for month for at least few balance changes, now we get them all at once and they sell it as the pvp revolution…bad joke in my opinion.

I think that the good question to this thread is who will still play if patch sucks?

I’ve never seen a developing team that does such a horrific job that they cause the majority of their most skilled, most dedicated playerbase to quit
And THEN take their SWEET TIMES trying to put things back on track.
How long has it been with this garbage now? Five months?
I’m appalled.

Mrbig.8019:

The main reason why tourneys are seen as “too hard” is , again , system fault.

Hotjoin doesn’t teach you how to play, the rewards system doesn’t teach you how to play.

People playing hotjoin up to rank 50 have absolutely no idea how to play, most of the time they’re not even skilled enough to even step in tourney due to running totally selfish builds ( like shatter mesm with double stealth+ blink+ mass invisibility, or P/D stealth spam thieves).

If you keep the rewards this way and THEY WAY they’re awarded, people will never learn, will think tourneys are too hard, nobody will steap out from HJ.

At the same time, if you change HJ to make them similar to “other games” unranked matches ( so you give glory ONLY to the winning team, rebalance the ratio glory is given to players instead of promoting mindless killing near the point etc. etc.),
still Hotjoin population will rage because now suddenly playing requires some thinking.

It’s a dead end, in any case.

During my studies regarding business comunication and decision making, the one aNet is in is kinda one of the worst possible scenarios, where you basically need TONS of resources in order to avoid the disaster.

No matters what you do, it will be bad. Still you need to do something.

If they don’t do anything, PvP will mostly like slowly die of starving, and from a business perspective, they would be better off cutting all the resources and give them to WvW and PvE, maybe hoping WvW will flourish as the new PvP mode.

It’s just called abandonement, and it’s nothing more than a part of the life-cycle of the product, in this case of a failed one.

I don’t disagree entirely with you here, but I think its a matter of degree; also I still think the game is great-not a failed product at all.

It has given me pretty much what I was looking for-pvp without a gear grind, action combat (not totally but close), stamped out those annoying pug stomping games, 24/7 on demand pvp.

Reward systems are complicated, and in all mmos I have played people rage about the spvp reward systems. GW2 system is actually better than some other games I’ve played.

Hotjoin is amazing. I absolutely learnt all the basics of the game in hotjoin, and I absolutely stepped up my game when I moved on to tourney and again to team play.

In terms of making the rewards “like other games”, well other games do reward you even if you lose. I don’t recall any other mmo that has three very accessible (as in you can join right at the start without gearing/levelling) levels of pvp, catering to beginners/casuals through to very competitive players.

You write off the game as a failure, when at least in comparison to existing released games it is light years ahead in many ways. I’m not saying that any of the issues you touched on are not real to some degree, but your conclusion that the game is a fail and should be abandoned lacks perspective. Indeed, the dilemma you present above pretty much applies to all spvp in other mmos I have played.

The reality is that no game has got it 100% right, all pvp forums are full of people whining, and doomsday sayers are on the forums of every mmo. We are very demanding clients. Sixty bucks, what’s that? Less than a new console release, which even if I like I might only play for 50 hours or so. I have played many hundreds of hours and am still enjoying it- and that is nearly exclusively spvp!

Keep up the good criticism but put it in perspective.

Yasha.5963:

Mrbig.8019:

The main reason why tourneys are seen as “too hard” is , again , system fault.

Hotjoin doesn’t teach you how to play, the rewards system doesn’t teach you how to play.

People playing hotjoin up to rank 50 have absolutely no idea how to play, most of the time they’re not even skilled enough to even step in tourney due to running totally selfish builds ( like shatter mesm with double stealth+ blink+ mass invisibility, or P/D stealth spam thieves).

If you keep the rewards this way and THEY WAY they’re awarded, people will never learn, will think tourneys are too hard, nobody will steap out from HJ.

At the same time, if you change HJ to make them similar to “other games” unranked matches ( so you give glory ONLY to the winning team, rebalance the ratio glory is given to players instead of promoting mindless killing near the point etc. etc.),
still Hotjoin population will rage because now suddenly playing requires some thinking.

It’s a dead end, in any case.

During my studies regarding business comunication and decision making, the one aNet is in is kinda one of the worst possible scenarios, where you basically need TONS of resources in order to avoid the disaster.

No matters what you do, it will be bad. Still you need to do something.

If they don’t do anything, PvP will mostly like slowly die of starving, and from a business perspective, they would be better off cutting all the resources and give them to WvW and PvE, maybe hoping WvW will flourish as the new PvP mode.

It’s just called abandonement, and it’s nothing more than a part of the life-cycle of the product, in this case of a failed one.

I don’t disagree entirely with you here, but I think its a matter of degree; also I still think the game is great-not a failed product at all.

It has given me pretty much what I was looking for-pvp without a gear grind, action combat (not totally but close), stamped out those annoying pug stomping games, 24/7 on demand pvp.

Reward systems are complicated, and in all mmos I have played people rage about the spvp reward systems. GW2 system is actually better than some other games I’ve played.

Hotjoin is amazing. I absolutely learnt all the basics of the game in hotjoin, and I absolutely stepped up my game when I moved on to tourney and again to team play.

In terms of making the rewards “like other games”, well other games do reward you even if you lose. I don’t recall any other mmo that has three very accessible (as in you can join right at the start without gearing/levelling) levels of pvp, catering to beginners/casuals through to very competitive players.

You write off the game as a failure, when at least in comparison to existing released games it is light years ahead in many ways. I’m not saying that any of the issues you touched on are not real to some degree, but your conclusion that the game is a fail and should be abandoned lacks perspective. Indeed, the dilemma you present above pretty much applies to all spvp in other mmos I have played.

The reality is that no game has got it 100% right, all pvp forums are full of people whining, and doomsday sayers are on the forums of every mmo. We are very demanding clients. Sixty bucks, what’s that? Less than a new console release, which even if I like I might only play for 50 hours or so. I have played many hundreds of hours and am still enjoying it- and that is nearly exclusively spvp!

Keep up the good criticism but put it in perspective.

you’re the exception.

Hotjoin doesn’t favour learning the game, since the reward ssystem rewards you for killing your enemies near a point instead of map tactics.

Most people think just killing is good, or playing 1vs2 on a capped point is good when in reality it isn’t.

They don’t learn the basics, and come to solo/team queue with a pretentious knowledge tha in actual PvP is wrong.

The game is a failure because it failed to deliver a solid basis to a healthty PvP: we’re not in a situation where they can’t turn it back, but they need resources, and it seems they’re not willing to put them on PvP.

Indeed the game is worth its bucks, but this is the MMO market, and money is obtained via retention more than acquisition: so their policy has been wrong all time, and it’s still wrong, unless massive changes are planned on the horizon.

Sorry for some grammar mistakes, i’m kinda drunk.

I highly doubt the whole thing will suck so yeah I’ll keep on playing.
Some changes will probably suck but it’s acceptable if there are few (others will be justified) as the nerf to Illusionist Celerity for mesmer which definitely sucked and still sucks, but I’m still playing, still playing my mesmer (though I definitely spend less time with it).
Anet may be slow or make a few mistakes, but they never produce something 100% bad, that’s the good thing.
Actually, I’m hoping changes will be good enough, not just +1 damage to this skill or +1 sec duration.

I’d like to vent a little here.

I’ve been a PvE player since launch. I was going to try sPvP a little bit last year, but heard that it was horendous and that only 3 classes were viable in it, so I stayed away. This lasted until about the beginning of Sept. 2013.

Then, I just decided to go in hot join and see how my warrior would fare. I wanted to use mace+shield/hammer and made a pretty decent stun lock build. After a few people complained that I was just using a cookie cutter build (actually had no idea people used mace+shield/hammer), I decided to try other classes.

Atm, I have at least one viable build on each class EXCEPT thief and elementalist…those two playstyles are not very enjoyable to me. Thieves are too squishy and elementalists have very few viable stun break/stability options (i’m looking into an invuln. spam build atm…)

During my 1 month stint into the world of sPvP, I have come to see that most issues people can be summed up as follows:

1) My class/build should be able to counter any other class at any time. This will NEVER happen. This is not a fighting game or an FPS. There will be classes and builds that you struggle against…there will be classes and builds that struggle against you.

2) Not enough modes. I actually agree with this one. I do NOT think that there should be 6 modes like GW1…that fragments the sPvP population too much. However, simply having one mode will alienate anyone who doesn’t enjoy it. The PvP team has done GREAT with providing a variety of maps, but there need to be more options for playing on them.

• I don’t like the idea of a team-death match…however, I would be open to a modified version of Kill Confirmed…bringing the “souls” dropped from dead enemies to a capture point.

• GvG. I did not play a lot of it, but there are plenty of people who want it.

3) Rewards area not good enough This one, I don’t understand. Do players want more PvE rewards (gold, karma, etc.)? Do they want easier ranks? I personally think that lockers should just have stackable armor, but other than that, the rewards seem pretty great. You can even make bags using glory for alts. What I WILL agree with is the fact that hot-join will rank you up faster than tourney play. I think a compromise would be the ability to rank up to r30 in hot-join and only able to gain ranks from tourney from then on. You would still be able to gain glory in hot-join, but it should not improve your rank.

I honestly play sPvP most of the time now. I log into PvE for the LS achievements and to help out with my gf’s daily. PvP may not be perfect, but it’s a LONG way from horrible.

And I doubt the patch is going to make PvP worse…

Vorch.2985:

3) Rewards area not good enough This one, I don’t understand. Do players want more PvE rewards (gold, karma, etc.)? Do they want easier ranks? I personally think that lockers should just have stackable armor, but other than that, the rewards seem pretty great. You can even make bags using glory for alts. What I WILL agree with is the fact that hot-join will rank you up faster than tourney play. I think a compromise would be the ability to rank up to r30 in hot-join and only able to gain ranks from tourney from then on. You would still be able to gain glory in hot-join, but it should not improve your rank.

There are two sort of rewards. Material ones and immaterial ones. The first is more or less for PvE, the second for PvP. PvP-Players tend to feel more rewarded for immaterial goods. The most excentric reward in my opinion is “Prestige”. Players want to be known, they want to be recognized for their achievements.
This can be easily done by titles/ranks/leaderboards/emotes etc.. The problem here is, if these immaterial goods are accessable for everyone (in GW2’s case rank / champion title through soloq) the worth of these prestige-indicators drop to nearly zero value (that’s what we have right now in this game). So the incentive to be good in PvP gets lost in this aspect. This results in a decrease of competition, which is the most important aspect of every healthy PvP-Environment.

To summarize the failed incentives in PvP:
- broken leaderboards
- rank grinding, accessable for everyone through hotjoin
- slower rank-up-progression in competitive mode (tournaments)
- Qualifying Points introduction failed
- no skill-ceiling as meta-builds tend to be “cheesy” (easy playable by everyone)
and many more . . .

However, material goods are also important in PvP. In GW2 we have glory as our material currency. Sadly the value of this currency is not existing. There is nothing you could spend your glory for, except some cosmethics.
During the 3-round-paid-tournaments ppl could earn gems for winning. This has driven many players into competitive PvP, as rewards were there. A-Net however decided to take these rewards away (they would have decreases in income, by a inflation of gems).

That’s why ppl often ask for better rewards (more or less)

If all fails, always keg brawl.

I will keep playing PvP even if the patch fails to shake up the meta in a positive manner.

One thing to note though, I only play roughly an hour day as is, be it PvE, PvP, or even WvW, and I still enjoy the game, over a year playing

What will I do.. Keep playing the game as always and get in an even fouler mood about than last month.