Guild Wars 2

Yes, not only does it make warrior weaker but it makes the game look like it’s still in BETA with a “placeholder” trait line, it’s just sad. If warrior dmg is in the right place in their opinion, then just change Brawn into something defensive, which is something warriors are currently UP at.

I like the idea of replacing the “Adrenal Health” trait with something else, and build the existing trait into brawn buffing it up a bit, such as you get 15 health every 3 seconds per points spent (for 450 every 3 sec with 30 points in the line) which is pretty balanced. The mechanic is already there so it wouldn’t even be hard.

I’m no warrior, but 3% is totally lacking and 30% is too much, but why not just make it 15% or hell maybe make it your Adrenaline is gained 30% faster or something like that?

shrugs certainly needs a buff if you ask me, I do understand why it was nerfed though it was pretty ridiculous at 30% burst damage increase xD.

I definitely agree that it should be changed to at least be something desirable, whether it involves burst skill damage or not.

Basically this trait line only boosts 1 thing instead of 2, because the current .1% effect per point might as well say “Placeholder: coming soon!” and do nothing.

They should just make this a combination of burst recharge rate and +% adrenaline per strike. So at 30 points, you’d get 1.3 strikes per hit instead of 1 strike per hit and your cooldown would be 7 seconds. This would be useful for all bursts (including condition damage ones), and would specifically consider the class mechanic better.

Rising Dusk.2408:

They should just make this a combination of burst recharge rate and +% adrenaline per strike. So at 30 points, you’d get 1.3 strikes per hit instead of 1 strike per hit and your cooldown would be 7 seconds. This would be useful for all bursts (including condition damage ones), and would specifically consider the class mechanic better.

Simple, strong enough, not OP, consistent with other “unique” traits in that it supports the primary mechanic for the profession. Even has some synergy with other traits that give bonuses based on adrenal level. Good suggestion.

As others have stated though, Warrior needs better sustain, most likely in the form of condition removal (since they are currently abysmal at it). This would be a positive change, but doesn’t really fix the profession.

Again, there isn’t a point to this thread.

Anet would have to be blind to miss this, they just don’t care. This same thread has been done probably over 50 times now in the warrior forums.

Nope, anet doesn’t care. and “soon” for anet is 2-3months out for simple changes. It astounds me how stuff like this takes ridiculously long, yet other devs can always change it within a month.

That’s why we’re posting about it in a much more visible part of the forums to gather attention on the subject.

The subject being how this stupid placeholder stat is still in the game after 9 months

The reason why it has been 9 months since major revisions were given to warriors was because at the time of beta, ArenaNet felt that warriors were in a good place in balance. All of the alpha testers unanimously agreed that warriors had the most diverse build choices, strong map presence, and overall good balance. So, ANet allocated all of their resources to working on the other classes.

Now that all of the classes (except warriors) have been fine-tuned with the appropriate buffs and nerfs over the months, Anet can finally revisit warriors. Remember, warriors were their first class that they designed, so they felt that warriors set the standard for balance, believe it or not. And warriors were good at the time – until players started figuring out how to play eles, and thieves, etc, and realized the potential of those classes far exceeded what warriors could possibly ever do.

Take a look at this video. Remember these days? Look at how these eles are playing. And look at how Moldran’s warrior is so incredible in comparison. This was ArenaNet’s perspective on warriors at the time – they were perfectly balanced, no need for changes. People have not discovered the potential of eles, thieves, necros, and so the image of warriors was like this one here in the video, in ANet’s perspective. And that’s how things stayed until tomorrow (April 30, 2013).

I wonder…what would happen if all of the nerfs to warriors from beta were reverted, and warriors were given back their old power today. How would things change? Now that players are very experienced with the intricacies of eles, guardians, rangers, etc, and know how to survive, would the old warrior really seem OP today?

Its also that going into release they nerfed the warriors sustain by probably 30%+ unintentially. Bumping the cd on mending up to 25s from 20s along with adding internals on all weapon swap sigils so the nearly 200 hps they were getting from leeching sigil was lost. So warriors are much weaker then they were during beta but they have retained the stigma that they are fine.

Yes I remember that. There were some sudden changes to warriors on release that were not even discussed or approved by alpha testers yet. They just slipped in…similar to how ANet slipped in the Quickness nerfs recently without even mentioning it during the SotG discussion a day before.

And that shows how close warriors are to being in a good place. They don’t need huge changes. As I’ve been advocating for months now, warriors just need some more options to counter slows (ways to remove cripples, chills), some more sustained healing over time, and a way to obtain moderately decent damage without having to build glassy. Thank the gods that all 3 of these issues are being addressed next patch!

zone.1073:

The reason why it has been 9 months since major revisions were given to warriors was because at the time of beta, ArenaNet felt that warriors were in a good place in balance. All of the alpha testers unanimously agreed that warriors had the most diverse build choices, strong map presence, and overall good balance. So, ANet allocated all of their resources to working on the other classes.

Now that all of the classes (except warriors) have been fine-tuned with the appropriate buffs and nerfs over the months, Anet can finally revisit warriors. Remember, warriors were their first class that they designed, so they felt that warriors set the standard for balance, believe it or not. And warriors were good at the time – until players started figuring out how to play eles, and thieves, etc, and realized the potential of those classes far exceeded what warriors could possibly ever do.

You post as if you were representing Arenanet. While I admire your optimism, the sad fact of the matter is that they have most likely simply forgotten/do not care about the current state of brawn. They proved that they can completely miss glaring issues like these with the reaction they showed upon being told that Flurry doesn’t activate Building Momentum (despite this being reported as a bug since… forever).

Also, I do not believe that Dogged March/Boon Hate will change that much about the state of pvp warrior. Small access to regen, while helpful, is not nearly enough to put warrior on the same level, sustainability-wise, as other classes. Boon Hate seems to be replacing the grandmaster traits in the Discipline Line, requiring heavy investment into critical damage (thus being counterproductive to “obtain moderately decent damage without having to build glassy”). It also just happens to be the traitline with Brawn, which, hey, brings us full circle to the main point of this topic!

Those prerelease videos of Warrior being effective in pvp mean nothing in the present time. Warriors were made to be simple to pick up and be moderately effective, every other class were playing at maybe 20% of their full potential while warriors were easily achieving 60%. The sad truth, as we know it now, ~9 months into release, is that warrior’s 100% doesn’t remotely hold a candle to any of the other class’s 100%.

20% chance to X on crit.
replace X with:
Remove a condition,
Remove a boon from target,
Grant might,
grant fury,
increase attack speed by 5%,
snare the target.

theres plenty of interesting options

Liewec.2896:

1% chance to X on crit.
replace X with:
Remove a condition,
Remove a boon from target,
Grant might,
grant fury,
increase attack speed by 5%,
snare the target.

theres plenty of interesting options

Yes, lets implement even more unnecessary RNG.

RNG makes competitive game play more fun and interesting for everyone because, let’s face it, who doesn’t enjoy watching their avatar do something other than what one needed and wanted it to do at that moment.

/s

30% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

Jzaku.9765:

Kurow.6973:

30% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

I can’t tell if you didn’t read at all or are actually stupid. I strongly suggest you actually read the thread, especially the paragraph that starts with “In case you, the reader”.

I think at some point I’m going to have to put a giant warning up in all caps at the top of the OP for people to actually understand what this thread is saying.

Like seriously the very first sentence of the OP is “Increase Burst Skill Damage by 0.1% per point in the Discipline traitline.”

0.1% x 30 points is…?

4.375?

WELP time to change the title to “yet another PATCH”

zone.1073:

Yes I remember that. There were some sudden changes to warriors on release that were not even discussed or approved by alpha testers yet. They just slipped in…similar to how ANet slipped in the Quickness nerfs recently without even mentioning it during the SotG discussion a day before.

And that shows how close warriors are to being in a good place. They don’t need huge changes. As I’ve been advocating for months now, warriors just need some more options to counter slows (ways to remove cripples, chills), some more sustained healing over time, and a way to obtain moderately decent damage without having to build glassy. Thank the gods that all 3 of these issues are being addressed next patch!

“We’ve agreed that warriors need more ways to counter cripple and chill, an improvement to sustained healing, and options for survivability that still do reasonable damage. In the upcoming patch, we’ll be addressing this by adding several new greatsword skins as well as reducing the cooldown on the offhand sword skill riposte by 1 second”

Updated OP with information to promote (hopefully) better discussion.

Jzaku.9765:

Kurow.6973:

30% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

I can’t tell if you didn’t read at all or are actually stupid. I strongly suggest you actually read the thread, especially the paragraph that starts with “In case you, the reader”.

I think at some point I’m going to have to put a giant warning up in all caps at the top of the OP for people to actually understand what this thread is saying.

Like seriously the very first sentence of the OP is “Increase Burst Skill Damage by 0.1% per point in the Discipline traitline.”

0.1% x 30 points is…?

No need to get your jimmies so rustled.

It’s called a mistype. It’s especially common when someone types from a mobile device.

Kurow.6973:

No need to get your jimmies so rustled.

It’s called a mistype. It’s especially common when someone types from a mobile device.

Kurow.6973:

3% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

Hahaha no. Sorry, but there’s no excuse for blatantly not reading the thread at all then trying to be condescending.

Jzaku.9765:

Kurow.6973:

No need to get your jimmies so rustled.

It’s called a mistype. It’s especially common when someone types from a mobile device.

Kurow.6973:

3% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

Hahaha no. Sorry, but there’s no excuse for blatantly not reading the thread at all then trying to be condescending.

It seems like what I said was really difficult for you to understand. Oh well!

HOW ABOUT:

-0.2 seconds on weapon swap time
Fast Hands changed to “First three attacks after swapping weapons always crit”.

You’d be able to max out at 3 second weapon swap time (with rune of the soldier) for maximum versatility. I’d even say it would be OP.

Only problem I see is that it might be a slight nerf to warriors only taking around 15-20 points in Discipline because Fast Hands is a flat -5.

Writetyper.1985:

HOW ABOUT:

-0.2 seconds on weapon swap time
Fast Hands changed to “First three attacks after swapping weapons always crit”.

You’d be able to max out at 3 second weapon swap time (with rune of the soldier) for maximum versatility. I’d even say it would be OP.

Only problem I see is that it might be a slight nerf to warriors only taking around 15-20 points in Discipline because Fast Hands is a flat -5.

Do you know what it means to have guaranteed crits…especially on a class like warrior…let alone on weapon swaps?

Kurow.6973:

Writetyper.1985:

HOW ABOUT:

-0.2 seconds on weapon swap time
Fast Hands changed to “First three attacks after swapping weapons always crit”.

You’d be able to max out at 3 second weapon swap time (with rune of the soldier) for maximum versatility. I’d even say it would be OP.

Only problem I see is that it might be a slight nerf to warriors only taking around 15-20 points in Discipline because Fast Hands is a flat -5.

Do you know what it means to have guaranteed crits…especially on a class like warrior…let alone on weapon swaps?

Yes. It’s pretty kittening good. You can run durable and do far more damage than you deserve to do. And it’s pretty clear that warrior is pretty kittening bad. Everyone else is saying “warrior needs more sustain!” or something like that, but that’s taking away the classe’s niche of hitting hard consistently, it just makes them into a psuedo guardian.

Of course, if it’s really that bad only next hit critting is also okay.

Writetyper.1985:

Kurow.6973:

Writetyper.1985:

HOW ABOUT:

-0.2 seconds on weapon swap time
Fast Hands changed to “First three attacks after swapping weapons always crit”.

You’d be able to max out at 3 second weapon swap time (with rune of the soldier) for maximum versatility. I’d even say it would be OP.

Only problem I see is that it might be a slight nerf to warriors only taking around 15-20 points in Discipline because Fast Hands is a flat -5.

Do you know what it means to have guaranteed crits…especially on a class like warrior…let alone on weapon swaps?

Yes. It’s pretty kittening good. You can run durable and do far more damage than you deserve to do. And it’s pretty clear that warrior is pretty kittening bad. Everyone else is saying “warrior needs more sustain!” or something like that, but that’s taking away the classe’s niche of hitting hard consistently, it just makes them into a psuedo guardian.

Of course, if it’s really that bad only next hit critting is also okay.

Now the real question is why do guardians exist? Why couldn’t the whole role of the guardian be compressed as an alternative spec for warrior? That way there is more control over how much sustain a player can put into their melee class. Instead of going from no sustain to massive sustain. Warrior right now has no continuity. Glass or go home, because hps is basically the multiplier for defensive stats.

nakoda.4213:

RNG makes competitive game play more fun and interesting for everyone because, let’s face it, who doesn’t enjoy watching their avatar do something other than what one needed and wanted it to do at that moment.

/s

You almost had me.

Writetyper.1985:

Kurow.6973:

Writetyper.1985:

HOW ABOUT:

-0.2 seconds on weapon swap time
Fast Hands changed to “First three attacks after swapping weapons always crit”.

You’d be able to max out at 3 second weapon swap time (with rune of the soldier) for maximum versatility. I’d even say it would be OP.

Only problem I see is that it might be a slight nerf to warriors only taking around 15-20 points in Discipline because Fast Hands is a flat -5.

Do you know what it means to have guaranteed crits…especially on a class like warrior…let alone on weapon swaps?

Yes. It’s pretty kittening good. You can run durable and do far more damage than you deserve to do. And it’s pretty clear that warrior is pretty kittening bad. Everyone else is saying “warrior needs more sustain!” or something like that, but that’s taking away the classe’s niche of hitting hard consistently, it just makes them into a psuedo guardian.

Of course, if it’s really that bad only next hit critting is also okay.

Yea…I’d love to have guaranteed 2-3 shots all the time…..

Edited OP with popular suggested changes to Brawn to hopefully keep up discussion

Well it’s been a month and we have gone full circle

Really this is probably because a Warrior is never going to be invited for the SotG discussion.

kitten , this was necrod “literally” but I am assuming the people that posted on this original topic have already quit, since our voices aren’t really heard/considered imo (due to limited resources in pvp dev team)

just make that 3% to boon hate, and remove that useless destruction of the empowered. voila

Kurow.6973:

Jzaku.9765:

Kurow.6973:

No need to get your jimmies so rustled.

It’s called a mistype. It’s especially common when someone types from a mobile device.

Kurow.6973:

3% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

Hahaha no. Sorry, but there’s no excuse for blatantly not reading the thread at all then trying to be condescending.

It seems like what I said was really difficult for you to understand. Oh well!

Yup, its definitely difficult to understand what you have said, since it’s so flawed and lacks the basic intelligence and information.

Lighter that is a good suggestion. 30 points in Discipline increases your damage by 3% per boon on your target.

I like the ideas that were thrown around the last SotG and I think Warrior will get some nice changes.

Um… we had 3 guys who apparently played warriors speaking for us, but no mention of brawn?

Daecollo.9578:

Um… we had 3 guys who apparently played warriors speaking for us, but no mention of brawn?

lol 1% ->0.1% with like 2 actual dmg burst skills? Dat scrub balancing. Poor warriors.

And because someone said engi toolbelt cd decrease was worse. Not at all, it is pretty kitten good and might only appear weak because there aren’t that many good toolbelt skills right now (for example because the turret ones are silly and gadgets suck).

I honestly would try to get more guests that actually have put a bit of thought into one specific class. I like Phanta and Zoose and they are great eles but yeah … ele hasn’t that many problems to begin with (so why 2 main eles in one show?). They propably would have to focuss a whole show on one class anyway to somewhat cover all flaws. Would like to see something like that though but OF COURSE arenanet doesn’t have the time for that. I actually feel sorry for Jon Sharp and everyone working on spvp.

#esport priority

This was super nerfed in beta when newbies running glass cannon specs were QQ’ing that they were getting eviscerate-one-shot by warriors running a glass cannon spec. I’m not exaggerating or joking.

should be:

30% of burst damage ignore’s armor+protection+damage reduction.

Daecollo.9578:

should be:

30% of burst damage ignore’s armor+protection+damage reduction.

God that would be kittened as well. Maybe just 30% chance that attacks are unblockable?

Dojo.1867:

Daecollo.9578:

should be:

30% of burst damage ignore’s armor+protection+damage reduction.

God that would be kittened as well. Maybe just 30% chance that attacks are unblockable?

It wouldn’t be kittened, it would be good because it means we would do more damage against bunkers and around the same against glass cannons.

Daecollo.9578:

should be:

30% of burst damage ignore’s armor+protection+damage reduction.

Daecollo.9578:

It wouldn’t be kittened, it would be good because it means we would do more damage against bunkers and around the same against glass cannons.

Except that resolves absolutely nothing about how a large majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much direct damage.

Dojo.1867:

God that would be kittened as well. Maybe just 30% chance that attacks are unblockable?

How about no??? I don’t want to try eviscerating a guardian using his block heal and PRAYING for that 30% chance to happen. That’s just terrible.

Jzaku.9765:

Ranger: Improve pet attributes by 30%

if i may offer a correction, each point in beast mastery improves pet attributes by 10, up to 300 of each one for a total stat gain of 1200

lupercaleb.6041:

Jzaku.9765:

Ranger: Improve pet attributes by 30%

if i may offer a correction, each point in beast mastery improves pet attributes by 10, up to 300 of each one for a total stat gain of 1200

Noted and fixed!