Guild Wars 2

So what’s the point?

Spectator mode = oh that guy killed me so I’ll drop off my team and leave them one man short while I watch this guy?

This is just silly, you should be able to spectate players even if the room is full.

Spectators should not count as part of the active player base on the server, they should be seperate.

I do agree on this. A lot of matches would be designated 10 v 10 but with spectators it averaged at 5-6. Spectator mode is cool, but much less cool if you need to disable it simply to get all the team slots filled.

i think there should be unlimited amount of spectators, its not like its adding clutter all you do is watch people, I don’t see how that could lag people.

if your going to want this e-sports than you need to know theres going to be a lot more than 10 people watching a 5v5.

I agree too , Spectators should not count as part of the active player base on the server, they should be seperate.

Kyzen.7452:

Thought it was going to be like this originally

hahaha how many times will we get to say this before gw2 fades in to memory.

anet’s credo is to make people say things like this.

like engies and heavy armor and warriors and survivability and …

There is a limited number of Spectators allowed? And it cuts into the amount of Players in the match?

Stof.9584:

There is a limited number of Spectators allowed? And it cuts into the amount of Players in the match?

Yes, that is how they thought best to design and implement this feature.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Stof.9584:

There is a limited number of Spectators allowed? And it cuts into the amount of Players in the match?

Yes, that is how they thought best to design and implement this feature.

wtf.

That’s stupid as hell.

I feel that the spectator slots are more for shoutcasters during player run tourneys or for teammates/guildmates during scrimmage games. They probably dont want the spectator mode to take the place of sites like Twitch because it’s important to promote a community/fanbase outside of the game too.

Vandal.8029:

I feel that the spectator slots are more for shoutcasters during player run tourneys or for teammates/guildmates during scrimmage games. They probably dont want the spectator mode to take the place of sites like Twitch because it’s important to promote a community/fanbase outside of the game too.

People watch dota 2 on twitch and whatnot AAAALLLL the time.
But they also have constantly running matches with 100+ people spectating them.

I mean, it could just be that they also have a working game…

@Garethh

I stand corrected. I’m not a big fan of mobas so I did not know that. That was just the only reason I could think of why they would limit the number of spectators. Oh well, the spectator mode still provides a great opportunity for shoutcasters to stream player run tournaments, which is more important to me than spectating random games in the browser.

This is what happens when you fire all of your programmers after launch. Oops!

In before the kitten storm

your intent from development was to be an e-sport (at least that’s what you told the players and media outlets), so the “difficult and complicated technology” should have been part of the development. oh well.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is intentional for performance reasons. We’ve been very clear on the limitations of the in-game spectator mode and how it is not a global observer mode. An observer mode that allows thousands of live viewers is much more difficult and complicated technology. What we have will still go a long way in fostering community building, learning, and shoutcasting.

Why was the system to allow global observation not designed in the original implementation of your engine. Why, in general, is PvP in GW2 a colossal step backwards for what existed in GW1? The original reasoning for scraping GW1 and moving to a new game was because of engine limitations, why on earth would you then design things that regress from one engine to the next?

Well, atleast we have confirmation right here that Anet isnt serious about actually making GW2 viable in ESports community. If things are too complicated to make something work correctly its better to just slap a bandaid on it and hope we are fine with it? Thats not going to cut it when there are other options out there.

Then seperate the limit for active players and spectators, if you want you can leave the overall limit at 20, but please don´t let the spectators take the slots of actual players and let us customize it, so that we can as example make an arena with a 9vs9 and 2 spectator slots.

Evan, the problem is, you want to force the founding of those communities, making already existing communities go mad and leave the game. We want to watch the top rated tournament battles, not r5 rabbits zerging in a mini wvw style hotjoin and have like 3 spectator slots.

Custom Arenas are great, but we need a real observer mode, and for tournaments.

Gandarel.5091:

Evan, the problem is, you want to force the founding of those communities, making already existing communities go mad and leave the game. We want to watch the top rated tournament battles, not r5 rabbits zerging in a mini wvw style hotjoin and have like 3 spector slots.

Custom Arenas are great, but we need a real observer mode, and for tournaments.

They just said they are going to push the responsibility of getting viewership of games to shoutcasters rather than themselves. Add in their fear of cheating in tournaments and its clear to see we are never going to get what we truly wanted.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is intentional for performance reasons. We’ve been very clear on the limitations of the in-game spectator mode and how it is not a global observer mode. An observer mode that allows thousands of live viewers is much more difficult and complicated technology. What we have will still go a long way in fostering community building, learning, and shoutcasting.

I just want to point out that the current implementation might impede that a little. I am already seeing people getting mad at the observers taking up spots in a game.

So we have people trying to learn by spectating and people getting mad at those trying to learn. I don’t know how much of a community that can foster.

You should really create a separate pool of people for spectating and give them their own /spectator chat. That would go a long way in fostering a community. People could help each other and discuss things without impeding those actually playing

so basically if someone hosts a tournament with all of the top teams, they can only invite 10 people to watch and everyone else has to find a stream… lol, yea that will really build the community.

Sprawl.3891:

so basically if someone hosts a tournament with all of the top teams, they can only invite 10 people to watch and everyone else has to find a stream… lol, yea that will really build the community.

Yup, and while some shoutcasts are fine Id much rather have control of my own camera and look at what I find important, not someone else.

Is Anet sure that ‘where in it to win it’ or whatever jazz they have going right now should be there company motto, instead of something like….
‘One step forward, two steps back’

I mean it’s beautiful, a nice cliche people can clearly picture, to boot everyone always throws respect at industries with integrity, ones truthful to the core, exc.
It would leave no one with a hurt hope, when you come in expecting that one person’s trash which disproves the rest of this cliche… the release of something, even on the bad side of mediocre, can appear to be a treasure, if just threw comparison.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Sprawl.3891:

so basically if someone hosts a tournament with all of the top teams, they can only invite 10 people to watch and everyone else has to find a stream… lol, yea that will really build the community.

Yup, and while some shoutcasts are fine Id much rather have control of my own camera and look at what I find important, not someone else.

that is the whole point of observer mode, to be able to have your own control, view peoples stats/specs, etc. With the way it is setup, unless you are friends with the top teams, you will be relegated to watching a shoutcast/stream and hope you don’t miss whatever time they have to actually inspect the players. All we got was basically a shoutcast mode. Oh you play a thief and want to watch the thief? sorry streamer is focusing on the mesmer and ele.

Sprawl.3891:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Sprawl.3891:

so basically if someone hosts a tournament with all of the top teams, they can only invite 10 people to watch and everyone else has to find a stream… lol, yea that will really build the community.

Yup, and while some shoutcasts are fine Id much rather have control of my own camera and look at what I find important, not someone else.

that is the whole point of observer mode, to be able to have your own control, view peoples stats/specs, etc. With the way it is setup, unless you are friends with the top teams, you will be relegated to watching a shoutcast/stream and hope you don’t miss whatever time they have to actually inspect the players. All we got was basically a shoutcast mode. Oh you play a thief and want to watch the thief? sorry streamer is focusing on the mesmer and ele.

Yup, I agree. The individual implementation of spectator mode is great. How they set up who can view as a spectator for a given arena is absolutely terrible. A complete step backwards from their working implementation of this feature in GW1 which is now what, 7 years old?

It’s (sadly) part again of that e-sport road Anet is aiming to walk: this system is great for casters as players are literally forced to tune in to watch the big games.

I just wonder if Anet is happy with the current pacing of the game (1v1 and team fights, action packed moments with slower phases) and the visual effects displayed during big team fights.

Evan, a simple solution would be to only display the “playable” slots in the server list, and not the full 20 including spectators.

ie, if a server is set up for 5v5 with 10 spectator slots, then in the server browser it shows up as a 8/10 players instead of 8/20.

edit: or, kitten, show them both; 8/10 players 5/10 spectators

Evan Lesh.3295:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Sprawl.3891:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Sprawl.3891:

so basically if someone hosts a tournament with all of the top teams, they can only invite 10 people to watch and everyone else has to find a stream… lol, yea that will really build the community.

Yup, and while some shoutcasts are fine Id much rather have control of my own camera and look at what I find important, not someone else.

that is the whole point of observer mode, to be able to have your own control, view peoples stats/specs, etc. With the way it is setup, unless you are friends with the top teams, you will be relegated to watching a shoutcast/stream and hope you don’t miss whatever time they have to actually inspect the players. All we got was basically a shoutcast mode. Oh you play a thief and want to watch the thief? sorry streamer is focusing on the mesmer and ele.

Yup, I agree. The individual implementation of spectator mode is great. How they set up who can view as a spectator for a given arena is absolutely terrible. A complete step backwards from their working implementation of this feature in GW1 which is now what, 7 years old?

Guild Wars 2 is a completely different game. You cannot take Gw1 features and just drop them in a brand new engine. Gw1 was a simpler game, which made observer mode less complicated than how it would work in Gw2. For example, Gw1 did not use Havok.

Obviously they are different games, but my point still stands. Why was an observer mode not taken into consideration when creating the new game engine. Why were features that were important to the original game forgotten during design. While it is more complicated to add now, if decisions were based around the inclusion of an observer mode from the start then we wouldnt be having this discusion. That is the issue.

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

I’m not saying everything should carry over from GW1. I’m saying, there are features in GW1 that are superior to what exists in GW1. Its simply that simple… There really isn’t any excuse…
That game is was more competitive than what this game currently is. Unfortunately, that will probably be the case until GW3 launches…

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

BlahTeeb.3254:

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

I’m not saying everything should carry over from GW1. I’m saying, there are features in GW1 that are superior to what exists in GW1. Its simply that simple… There really isn’t any excuse…
That game is was more competitive than what this game currently is. Unfortunately, that will probably be the case until GW3 launches…

I agree with you. It makes no sense that various features where not chosen to be carried over from game to game. Things like GvG and a global observer mode. There truly is no excuse to have left these features off the development board when designing how they wanted their engine to work. And now that the engine was developed we get to hear how now its too complicated to do. Thats not an excuse to deploy substandard features.

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

I’m not saying everything should carry over from GW1. I’m saying, there are features in GW1 that are superior to what exists in GW1. Its simply that simple… There really isn’t any excuse…
That game is was more competitive than what this game currently is. Unfortunately, that will probably be the case until GW3 launches…

I agree with you. It makes no sense that various features where not chosen to be carried over from game to game. Things like GvG and a global observer mode. There truly is no excuse to have left these features off the development board when designing how they wanted their engine to work. And now that the engine was developed we get to hear how now its too complicated to do. Thats not an excuse to deploy substandard features.

Its as if you haven’t even the basic knowledge of programming R&D, or that your needs/desires are not the center of the universe.

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

Exactly. PvP was the endgame up until guilds started leaving because of the skill capture system and other issues. PvE quickly began to become more popular.

But, can we all agree this is one GIANT step forward for PvP? Surely the foundation is laid that can be expanded upon. I have a feeling they will be adding spectators to their own pool by next month after taking everyone’s feedback and complaints

Vena.8436:

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Parisalchuk.9230:

BlahTeeb.3254:

One year from now, ArenaNet will allow you to watch recorded games while having a nearly limitless count for observers. They will claim this to be the beginning and foundation for there highly competitive e-sport tournaments.
One year from now is too late. You had the foundations when you built GW1. What happened? This spectator mode is useless. Literally…. no one wants to watch a shout cast from a game that clearly does not stick to a competitive nature. Look at all the competitive players who transfers from a game to its sequel , like StarCraft, Dota/LoL. Then look how many competitive players from GW1 are playing in GW2.
The story in GW2 lasts no more than a month. You can sugar coat all you want, but it really doesn’t last more than a few weeks. Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

Im with you but people are going to jump on you for agreeing that pivotal features in GW1 should have been included in this game. In PvE, sure that maybe makes sense, different game. In PvP however you shouldnt be trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tools required to play and observe that kind of content.

I’m not saying everything should carry over from GW1. I’m saying, there are features in GW1 that are superior to what exists in GW1. Its simply that simple… There really isn’t any excuse…
That game is was more competitive than what this game currently is. Unfortunately, that will probably be the case until GW3 launches…

I agree with you. It makes no sense that various features where not chosen to be carried over from game to game. Things like GvG and a global observer mode. There truly is no excuse to have left these features off the development board when designing how they wanted their engine to work. And now that the engine was developed we get to hear how now its too complicated to do. Thats not an excuse to deploy substandard features.

Its as if you haven’t even the basic knowledge of programming R&D, or that your needs/desires are not the center of the universe.

I am actually currently working on designing the next iteration of the product my company produces, and I didnt realize that because I am stating the desires of the ESport community that it makes me want to be the center of the universe.

Parisalchuk.9230:

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

Your logic is astoundingly awful. Heroes/henchmen were a treatment to spreading the PvE population far too thinly over three continents. HA, conversely, was a hub. Compare all of the PvP hub zones to just Kamadan, ToA, LA, and Farm Spot X, and you’ll realize which population was monumentally larger.

Evan Lesh.3295:

… which is better than nothing at all…

Ahh the new found mantra of A-net. If you continue down this path, all of these little choices of “better than nothing” will lead inevitably to people taking the choice of nothing and moving on.

Vena.8436:

Parisalchuk.9230:

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

Your logic is astoundingly awful. Heroes/henchmen were a treatment to spreading the PvE population far too thinly over three continents. HA, conversely, was a hub. Compare all of the PvP hub zones to just Kamadan, ToA, LA, and Farm Spot X, and you’ll realize which population was monumentally larger.

Just because there were idles in PvE hotzones does not imply an active player base at all. Im just going to leave this discusion here though as we do not have data to support either claim for who had a larger ‘active’ population.

Vena.8436:

Parisalchuk.9230:

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

Your logic is astoundingly awful. Heroes/henchmen were a treatment to spreading the PvE population far too thinly over three continents. HA, conversely, was a hub. Compare all of the PvP hub zones to just Kamadan, ToA, LA, and Farm Spot X, and you’ll realize which population was monumentally larger.

No we should compare all the people playing each mode. Yea sure, cities were full of people. They had like three guys running around. Jump into observer for a recorded match you will chatter ten times the amount of LTS and LTB.
Its sort of the reason why PvP tournaments gave away cash prizes, because the community had grown large enough to support sponsors.

No one is trying to save Kerrigan, yet tons still play Lost Temple.
No one is fighting to disarm the bomb in Tehran, yet tons are still battling it out on Caspian border.
Look what happened when Diablo 3 added PvP… Its population surged!

BlahTeeb.3254:

Vena.8436:

Parisalchuk.9230:

silvermember.8941:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Branskins.9752:

BlahTeeb.3254:

Who will be here when all is done and said? The PvPers… so you should probably start catering to them… as in implementing features that existed in GW1 years ago.

I don’t necessarily think that is true at all. I think right now more people are still PvEing than PvPing 8 months after release. Also PvE is still more popular in GW1.

Instead, they should strike a balance between the two, not cater to one or the other

Obviously, look at the mess that PvP is. You think people Will go to conventions, swarm by the thousands, to watch someone do a dungeon run? Me neither.
PvP tends to outlast PvE… that’s the general idea.

Even at the height of gw1 popularity, PvE was what kept the game running. After prophecies they became shifting focus to PvE.

I disagree with that statement. In fact they had to add heros because of the difficulty of finding people to actually play with while running HA was still going strong. After EotN HA and GvG is what kept that game alive, not the speed farmers who would gladly have quit had their runs been nerfed (just like they did as the made UW harder and harder and began to nerf dungeons).

Your logic is astoundingly awful. Heroes/henchmen were a treatment to spreading the PvE population far too thinly over three continents. HA, conversely, was a hub. Compare all of the PvP hub zones to just Kamadan, ToA, LA, and Farm Spot X, and you’ll realize which population was monumentally larger.

No we should compare all the people playing each mode. Yea sure, cities were full of people. They had like three guys running around. Jump into observer for a recorded match you will chatter ten times the amount of LTS and LTB.
Its sort of the reason why PvP tournaments gave away cash prizes, because the community had grown large enough to support sponsors.

No one is trying to save Kerrigan, yet tons still play Lost Temple.
No one is fighting to disarm the bomb in Tehran, yet tons are still battling it out on Caspian border.
Look what happened when Diablo 3 added PvP… Its population surged!

(Im with you, I agree that PvP is what breathes life into games after the content of PvE runs stale)

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyriall.5027:

Evan Lesh.3295:

… which is better than nothing at all…

Ahh the new found mantra of A-net. If you continue down this path, all of these little choices of “better than nothing” will lead inevitably to people taking the choice of nothing and moving on.

Like I said, we needed this technology anyways. It’s great that it can fill some of the roles of observer mode before we actually have observer mode

So is this then confirmation that a full observer mode with a higher limit of concurrent viewers is actively being designed/developed/tested?

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is intentional for performance reasons. We’ve been very clear on the limitations of the in-game spectator mode and how it is not a global observer mode. An observer mode that allows thousands of live viewers is much more difficult and complicated technology. What we have will still go a long way in fostering community building, learning, and shoutcasting.

Firstly, I want to say a quick thank you for the feature. I do like it and enjoyed messing around with it last night.

Secondly, I completely understand the technical limitations. The idea of having thousands of people observing a match instead of going to twitch and watching a stream seems foolish. There would be too many people in one location and it would become unplayable.

Thirdly, why do spectators take up active player slots? I know hotjoin is not the most competitive format but it means matches will never have balanced teams. As long as there is an odd number of spectators than the match itself will be imbalanced.

It seems the next evolution of this feature should be to split active players from spectators and set a cap for both. Even if the cap for spectators is just 10 people it would make the game more enjoyable for those actually playing. Again, thank you for the feature. I like it. I just think some iterations needs happen to smooth out some issues.

Thanks for spectator mode and custom arenas anet.
After using it a bit, I am left with the impression that spvp is not a core feature of the game. Pve content has a level of polish that we expect from a big name game studio, but even basic pvp functionality is still missing, this late after release. I really can’t believe the features we took for granted in gw1 are still so far away (if they come at all).
You can make a 50v50 happen in wvw, but you can’t let more than a handful of people spectate a hotjoin match, for performance reasons???

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is intentional for performance reasons. We’ve been very clear on the limitations of the in-game spectator mode and how it is not a global observer mode. An observer mode that allows thousands of live viewers is much more difficult and complicated technology. What we have will still go a long way in fostering community building, learning, and shoutcasting.

Understandable, it is designed for specific functionality, e.g. shoutcasting/private matches.

However, I don’t think this overlaps with the expectations of the community: I don’t agree the limitations were made very clear, but that’s irrelevant now.

The fact is this system relies on resources outside of the game (streaming websites) to reach the intended audience. That is smart, because it allows viewers to branch off from multiple popular games.

But: it will require a commitment from the GW2 team to use those channels.
- An official channel with contast streaming of top matches.
- Large invitationals/tournaments with professional casters.
- Tools for people willing to cast (recorded/live) games themselves and broadcast them.

This has nothing to do with the pace of in-game development. I just doubt Arenanet is willing to split profits with 3rd parties: the history of banning players for uploading footage to Youtube, etc.

It would make more sense to allow players to spectate from the Game Client, since they stay connected to the Gem Store.
Dota 2, for example, obviously has Steam’s functionality in place, but it allows them to profit from players within the game: they charge currency to watch the E-Sports matches within the client.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyriall.5027:

Evan Lesh.3295:

… which is better than nothing at all…

Ahh the new found mantra of A-net. If you continue down this path, all of these little choices of “better than nothing” will lead inevitably to people taking the choice of nothing and moving on.

Like I said, we needed this technology anyways. It’s great that it can fill some of the roles of observer mode before we actually have observer mode

So is this then confirmation that a full observer mode with a higher limit of concurrent viewers is actively being designed/developed/tested?

It must be a disconnect in communication. I assumed, his original comment meant that there were technical limitations preventing observer mode. Now it sounds like it is something they are working on…Clarification please.