Guild Wars 2

tornado is the only elite transform that is
- not 20 seconds
- does not have health or armor increase

i suspect it may have something to do with its abilities

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tornado

currently,

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage: 271 ??? (unknown formula)
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 600
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3 s
Duration: 15s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Unblockable
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

now lets look at other transforms,
warrior rampage triples the base vitality
necro plague quadruples base toughness and triples base vitality

ele tornado does not enjoy stats boosts, lets change that.

here is the proposed new tornado

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage (10x): (Weapon Strength) x Power x 1.000 / Target’s Armor
Aegis (3s): Block the next incoming attack.
Swiftness (3s): 33% Movement Speed
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 200
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3s
Duration: 20s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Notes:
While in Tornado form, base Vitality is quadrupled and base Toughness tripled.

changes:
- base duration increased by 5 seconds to 20 seconds total
- base vitality x4
- base toughness x3
- launch range reduced by 400 to 200
- added aegis and swiftness boon
- revised number of attack and damage formula

okies! discuss!

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update 1:
okies, thanks everyone for the feedback!
i forgot things must be simple, so lets start off with some simple requests first!

revised proposal 1 after going through community feedback.

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage: 271 ??? (unknown formula)
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 600
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3 s
Duration: 20s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Unblockable
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Notes:
While in Tornado form, both base Vitality and base Toughness are doubled.

changes:
- base duration increased by 5 seconds to 20 seconds total
- base vitality x2
- base toughness x2

well, please discuss again!

this will be all at the moment, i have some ideas but i am too tired to type them out at the moment, will take a nap first.

thanks everyone for the feedback !!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

update 2 @ 22 july 2015 -

okies its time for another update to the proposal.
i removed unblockable and reduced launch range to 200.

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage: 271 ??? (unknown formula)
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 200
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3 s
Duration: 20s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Notes:
While in Tornado form, both base Vitality and base Toughness are doubled.

changes:
- launch range reduced to 200
- removed unblockable
- base duration increased by 5 seconds to 20 seconds total
- base vitality x2
- base toughness x2

I would rather see Tornado reworked into something useful, like Anet threated Tomes.

Morwath.9817:

I would rather see Tornado reworked into something useful, like Anet threated Tomes.

hmm well anet basically removed tomes and made them simpler.

tornado, being a transform skill, well, i would like for it to remain a useful transform.

how to make it useful?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how to make it useful?

Let me give two examples:

->
Arcane 30s CD
Blast Area around yourself (radius: 300?). Blasted enemies are damaged, knocked back and blinded.
Combo Finisher : Whirl

->
Cantrip 1 min CD
AoE blind enemies around yourself every second (radius 300?).
Enemies hitting you are knocked back.
Swfitness.
Duration: 6s.

Edit: Probably Blind on Arcane version isn’t needed (trait for Arcanes gives Blind while attuned to Air) and could be replaced by something else. I guess Elemental Surge could be good with such elite… since now there is like no reason to pick something else than Evasive Arcana.

I think tornado could be pretty good with a boost to vitality and toughness (vigor and regen from soothing disruption don’t cut it lol). Lightning rod makes the damage pretty good and while it is easy to kite it is great at stopping reses and stomps. It is just so glassy, you give up all your defenses to be a slow 17khp hit me sign. It still probably wouldn’t be as good as rampage or lich, as it is way easier to ignore but it would at least be useable.

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Even with incoming revenant stuff it could be a ground targeting ability that could be controlled by tapping where you can it to go as revenant’s ventari skills

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Even with incoming revenant stuff it could be a ground targeting ability that could be controlled by tapping where you can it to go as revenant’s ventari skills

The ability to control it will make it have a long cooldown, beside I’m not a fan of GW2 Ai, I mean just look at ranger pets ai. I would prefer it to be a ground target ability with 30/45s cd, which also act as a combo field depending on your attunement when you use it. Kinda sick and tired with ele elite with long kitten cd and not really that good to begin with. All of them are situational.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Even with incoming revenant stuff it could be a ground targeting ability that could be controlled by tapping where you can it to go as revenant’s ventari skills

The ability to control it will make it have a long cooldown, beside I’m not a fan of GW2 Ai, I mean just look at ranger pets ai. I would prefer it to be a ground target ability with 30/45s cd, which also act as a combo field depending on your attunement when you use it. Kinda sick and tired with ele elite with long kitten cd and not really that good to begin with. All of them are situational.

AI has nothing to do there, you control where the AoE goes. I think that 120s cd and giving to you the capacity to move up and down can be a nice upgrade, I just think an AoE tornado staying there can be good holding points, but useless in a fight situation where you can easily avoid the AoE and throw the cd (the fact is it will never have a 35/40s cd, i can see it with a 90s cd, easily wasted except in a situational scene as all other ele elite skills)

EDIT: I mean, just think about it… An unblockable CC AoE of 15s duration that you can move at will with a 120s cooldown that can easily go into 96 with traits? Sounds awesome to me

Tornado is another case of a transform elite that needs a rework. I don’t like transforms in general, would rather see new types of skills instead.

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Even with incoming revenant stuff it could be a ground targeting ability that could be controlled by tapping where you can it to go as revenant’s ventari skills

The ability to control it will make it have a long cooldown, beside I’m not a fan of GW2 Ai, I mean just look at ranger pets ai. I would prefer it to be a ground target ability with 30/45s cd, which also act as a combo field depending on your attunement when you use it. Kinda sick and tired with ele elite with long kitten cd and not really that good to begin with. All of them are situational.

AI has nothing to do there, you control where the AoE goes. I think that 120s cd and giving to you the capacity to move up and down can be a nice upgrade, I just think an AoE tornado staying there can be good holding points, but useless in a fight situation where you can easily avoid the AoE and throw the cd (the fact is it will never have a 35/40s cd, i can see it with a 90s cd, easily wasted except in a situational scene as all other ele elite skills)

EDIT: I mean, just think about it… An unblockable CC AoE of 15s duration that you can move at will with a 120s cooldown that can easily go into 96 with traits? Sounds awesome to me

Idk, the ai control in this game is clunky. Yes, your suggestion say you can control where it goes, question is how fast will it go there? From my experience with this game ai(ranger pets), even if you sort of “control it” that kitten will go so slow to the target and still need a movement/trigger animation, which when it ends your target can just sidestep to avoid it. From paper your suggestion might be good, but from how Anet work I doubt it’ll even be that good.

Buzzcrave.6197:

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Krysard.1364:

Buzzcrave.6197:

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

Yea I kinda like this, instead of shapeshifting into it you’ll just ground target it(like meteor/frostfield), and it’ll act like the current skill, but the projectile differ from the attunement you’re in while using it.

Even with incoming revenant stuff it could be a ground targeting ability that could be controlled by tapping where you can it to go as revenant’s ventari skills

The ability to control it will make it have a long cooldown, beside I’m not a fan of GW2 Ai, I mean just look at ranger pets ai. I would prefer it to be a ground target ability with 30/45s cd, which also act as a combo field depending on your attunement when you use it. Kinda sick and tired with ele elite with long kitten cd and not really that good to begin with. All of them are situational.

AI has nothing to do there, you control where the AoE goes. I think that 120s cd and giving to you the capacity to move up and down can be a nice upgrade, I just think an AoE tornado staying there can be good holding points, but useless in a fight situation where you can easily avoid the AoE and throw the cd (the fact is it will never have a 35/40s cd, i can see it with a 90s cd, easily wasted except in a situational scene as all other ele elite skills)

EDIT: I mean, just think about it… An unblockable CC AoE of 15s duration that you can move at will with a 120s cooldown that can easily go into 96 with traits? Sounds awesome to me

Idk, the ai control in this game is clunky. Yes, your suggestion say you can control where it goes, question is how fast will it go there? From my experience with this game ai(ranger pets), even if you sort of “control it” that kitten will go so slow to the target and still need a movement/trigger animation, which when it ends your target can just sidestep to avoid it. From paper your suggestion might be good, but from how Anet work I doubt it’ll even be that good.

I imagine the speed of the aoe will be the same as it is right now when you are transformed…. In any case I hope Anet will solve the problem with ele elite skills ^^

well, in stronghold, tornado is extremely useful, because of the reapplied stability for channeling the mist essence.

In conquest, I do think it’s definitely way less useful than the other transformations, but I like it for quick decaps on certain maps/build comps, but I’m using it very very rarely. One of the biggest issues is, that on many points, ppl can just position them in a way, that you’ll just push them towards an object rather than off the point, so on many maps, you can’t even decap properly with it.

I’d really like to see a buff to it, but not as big as you proposed, I think double vita/thoughness could be enough for starters. :P

I’d also like to see the buff for the engineer Elite-Elexir, cuz they pretty much either get rampage and are happy, or they get tornado and probably hope out of it again right away. :P

Ryld.1340:

Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.

To add onto this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbyE-0Cg4yI

How I wish tornado was.

a vit buff, and 25% reduced damage would go a long way. it’s already a cc machine and hits for 2k+ on my cele Engi.

Tornado is bad because it’s not really good at anything. out of all transformation skills, it deals the least damage. And that damage comes from self-finishing combos not the skill itself. Fine it’s got CC. But that CC comes at every fixed interval so it nullifies the effectiveness of the function since you basically can’t time your cc, which makes it half useless.

Drastically lower the CC element and add the AoE lightning storm (think of glyph of storm on air) to boost damage. Or stay with the current CC but adds wider effect radius and increase the number of attack bolts.

Tornado, as of now, is only useful for knocking rezz out of SR. Other than that it’s a suicide button.

okies, thanks everyone for the feedback!
i forgot things must be simple, so lets start off with some simple requests first!

revised proposal 1 after going through community feedback.

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage: 271 ??? (unknown formula)
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 600
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3 s
Duration: 20s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Unblockable
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Notes:
While in Tornado form, both base Vitality and base Toughness are doubled.

changes:
- base duration increased by 5 seconds to 20 seconds total
- base vitality x2
- base toughness x2

well, please discuss again!

this will be all at the moment, i have some ideas but i am too tired to type them out at the moment, will take a nap first.

thanks everyone for the feedback !!!

hmmm no more feedback for my revised proposal?

tornado is still weak since 3 years, did not receive much love unlike rampage or lich form.

some buff please?

Ground target aoe
Reflects projectiles in an area around it
Launches foes that go inside
Aoe damage pulse in same area as projectile reflect

Basically what this achieves is that for a few seconds while you and allies are standing inside are invulnerable but only when standing inside it. Good for briefly gaining an advantage on a cap point or collecting supplies

I suppose you’d still be affected by other ground target skills such as necro wells

uhohhotdog.3598:

Ground target aoe
Reflects projectiles in an area around it
Launches foes that go inside
Aoe damage pulse in same area as projectile reflect

Basically what this achieves is that for a few seconds while you and allies are standing inside are invulnerable but only when standing inside it. Good for briefly gaining an advantage on a cap point or collecting supplies

I suppose you’d still be affected by other ground target skills such as necro wells

that be changing the transform skill all together.
i want it to remain as a useful transform skill.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Ground target aoe
Reflects projectiles in an area around it
Launches foes that go inside
Aoe damage pulse in same area as projectile reflect

Basically what this achieves is that for a few seconds while you and allies are standing inside are invulnerable but only when standing inside it. Good for briefly gaining an advantage on a cap point or collecting supplies

I suppose you’d still be affected by other ground target skills such as necro wells

that be changing the transform skill all together.
i want it to remain as a useful transform skill.

Yea but I don’t. I don’t like not being able to use my normal skills because I’m transformed. Eles are based on attainment swapping. No point to attunement swap if I’m transformed. Elites should be based on that.

Just let tornado proc signet of renewal and allow eles to use their cantrips while in tornado form.

Allow attunement shifts while transformed and give each a unique set of tornado skills. Could be like a firestorm, sharknado!, tornado, and sandstorm depending on attunement.

i think there hesitant to make tornado changes because that would make eles and engys even stronger. Especially after giving engys the moa tool belt skill they could then have 2 elite finishers which would make them even more op. Imo the eles and engys are the 2nd and 3rd best class atm and making there elites stronger would only make the 4-8 classes weaker.

well kdaddy, a small buff wont hurt right?

kdaddy.5431:

i think there hesitant to make tornado changes because that would make eles and engys even stronger. Especially after giving engys the moa tool belt skill they could then have 2 elite finishers which would make them even more op. Imo the eles and engys are the 2nd and 3rd best class atm and making there elites stronger would only make the 4-8 classes weaker.

If eles had a proper elite maybe it would make it easier to nerf them without destroying them

Tornado with the trait “Lightning rod” (Elementalist) actually does quite alot of damage. Try it.

x Charlie.4820:

Tornado with the trait “Lightning rod” (Elementalist) actually does quite alot of damage. Try it.

Shame it doesn’t make you any less squishy.

thanks again for the feedback!
keep them coming!

as there is a fresh topic asking for removal of the tornado elite transform, it is very obvious that tornado needs a buff.

my revised proposal.
simple and sweet.

feedback appreciated!

update 2 @ 22 july 2015 -

okies its time for another update to the proposal.
i removed unblockable and reduced launch range to 200.

Tornado
“Gain stability and shape-shift into a tornado that damages and launches foes.”
Damage: 271 ??? (unknown formula)
Stability (3s): Cannot be knocked down, pushed back, pulled, launched, stunned, dazed, floated, sunk, feared or taunted.
Launch: 200
Number of Targets: 5
Boon Application Interval: 3 s
Duration: 20s
Stability and Damage Pulse: 3s
Radius: 240
Combo Field: Lightning
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Notes:
While in Tornado form, both base Vitality and base Toughness are doubled.

changes:
- launch range reduced to 200
- removed unblockable
- base duration increased by 5 seconds to 20 seconds total
- base vitality x2
- base toughness x2

discuss!

Maybe also remove the innate slow on tornado, it’s really painfull to watch.

MyPuppy.8970:

Maybe also remove the innate slow on tornado, it’s really painfull to watch.

hmmm whats the innate slow on tornado about?

said this in the other thread, but tornado should destroy projectiles,
how the hell do you shoot a tornado?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

MyPuppy.8970:

Maybe also remove the innate slow on tornado, it’s really painfull to watch.

hmmm whats the innate slow on tornado about?

You move MUCH slower in tornado form than you do on foot.

You know this skill needs some work when Engineers flip out because they are trying to go into Rampage only to be turned into a Tornado.

Its like the game is laughing at you, thats when you know, Tornado needs help.

ArenaNet, please help my friend Tornado… He ain’t done nothing wrong!

Greek.4396:

You know this skill needs some work when Engineers flip out because they are trying to go into Rampage only to be turned into a Tornado.

Its like the game is laughing at you, thats when you know, Tornado needs help.

aye you read my mind.

this is the main reason why i’m asking for tornado to be buffed.

when i gulp down elixir x and rampage then happy stomping time.

but … tornado-ed … gg no re.

This pulsing behavior on tornade is really passive, boring, useless, and predicatble. They should rework all the skills imo. Skill that have animation and more active play.

Pulsin aegis would be broken tho. It’s ture that they should add some extra toughness and vitality like other transforms.